S04.E06: From A To B And Back Again

[Athena]

Carrie puts her operation in motion.

[Primetimer]

Dennis does his best Maxwell Smart impression; a meeting goes terribly wrong.

Read the story

[CozyKat]

Holy crap, that was devastating.

[VioletMarx]

So she's willing to do anything, sacrifice any operation, to save Brody, even just to clear his name, but she'll let Saul be murdered. She'll even cause his death.

Carrie is irredeemable.

Edited November 3, 2014 by VioletMarx

[eleanorofaquitaine]

She was pretty clearly reacting from just seeing the kid she recruited and was sleeping with murdered by his uncle right before her eyes. IMO, she was acting out of an extreme desire to get revenge on the uncle in the most painful way possible.  In my view, that makes her very redeemable, if still reckless.

[VioletMarx]

She was pretty clearly reacting from just seeing the kid she recruited and was sleeping with murdered by his uncle right before her eyes. IMO, she was acting out of an extreme desire to get revenge on the uncle in the most painful way possible. In my view, that makes her very redeemable, if still reckless.

At her level, an extreme desire for personal revenge is not supposed to be an option.

However, it is always an option with Carrie. I was just pointing out that her choice of when to act on her emotion based on who was in jeopardy (her traitor lover or her father figure mentor) was repugnant to me.

If it was Brody standing there after Aayan was murdered, she wouldn't have given the same order.

Edited November 3, 2014 by VioletMarx

[WaltersHair]

Can't stand Carrie, but from a strictly unemotional point of view, isn't it smart to take that shot? Anything that happens to Saul in captivity can't be good.

[VioletMarx]

Can't stand Carrie, but from a strictly unemotional point of view, isn't it smart to take that shot? Anything that happens to Saul in captivity can't be good.

Yes, it is. I just couldn't believe that her emotion over Aayan being shot was more overwhelming than the thought that she was about to essentially murder Saul and watch it happen.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

At her level, an extreme desire for personal revenge is not supposed to be an option.

However, it is always an option with Carrie. I was just pointing out that her choice of when to act on her emotion based on who was in jeopardy (her traitor lover or her father figure mentor) was repugnant to me.

If it was Brody standing there after Aayan was murdered, she wouldn't have given the same order.

 

Well, she's still a human being, and one who occasionally has a hard time keeping control of her emotions.  It is the fact that she has some capacity to love and be upset that makes her "redeemable."  And the reality is that while Brody may have been her "traitor lover," she loved him and she also thought that their were redeemable things in him.  (Also, we're debating a hypothetical - we actually don't know how Carrie would have reacted in that situation).

 

I mean, the reality is that all of these people - including Saul - are extremely morally compromised people.  I think that is part of what this episode showed.  Aayan ended up dead both because of the machinations of Carrie and his uncle, and yet they all cling to the idea that they are doing this for some larger, more pure and moral purpose.  But all of them, including Saul, leave a trail of dead bodies in their wake.  Who is to say that Brody was actually that much worse than Saul or Carrie?

[izabella]

Can't stand Carrie, but from a strictly unemotional point of view, isn't it smart to take that shot? Anything that happens to Saul in captivity can't be good.

 

Taking the shot probably is the correct thing to do in that situation, but Carrie didn't give Saul a moment's thought...it was so harsh considering their relationship.

[Cramps]

Great episode in the way it got us to ask just these questions. And feel such conflicted emotions.

Throughout it, I kept thinking how interesting it was that I was feeling so much empathy for a young man whom I would normally feel no empathy. And whom I initially didn't think Carrie was feeling any empathy-despite their intimacy.

This is the first time all season we've actually seen even a glimpse of emotional humanity in Carrie. I think it's been extremely brave of the writers to make their lead character, and a woman at that, so in unlikable by traditional Hollywood standards.

Also- I hadn't thought about the fact that they might want to kill Saul to save him from giving away secrets. Good point....

Edited November 3, 2014 by Cramps

[VioletMarx]

Also, Fara is clearing info from the safe house (alone, because that's plausible), she comes downstairs and sees that (a) the alarm has been tripped, (b) the bag of compromising items has been tipped over, and © the cardboard she taped over the broken window has been pushed away, and she...does nothing? It doesn't even occur to her that perhaps someone was there??

Seriously, show?

[Blakeston]

It's odd - if Saul died, I don't think I'd be particularly bothered by it.

 

I would have been devastated if that had happened in seasons 1 or 2.

 

But after the nonsense with his character in season 3 (like his rant about Fara's headscarf, and when he said that he could "fix the Middle East" by using Brody as an assassin) - followed by the boneheaded way he feel into the airport trap in the last episode - I feel like the old Saul is gone.

 

Plus, I really, really don't care about his relationship with his wife.

[CozyKat]

I love Mandy Patinkin and Saul, but on a purely logical and ethical level, his death would have been collateral damage in pursuit of a worthy goal that would at least make Aayan's death at the hands of his last remaining relative (and personal hero) less pointless and senseless. Carrie's whole justification for seducing and effectively killing him just went up in smoke. As a knee-jerk reaction in a horrible situation, I can understand Carrie's desperate need to salvage SOMETHING from this debacle by at least doing what they went in to do, especially since there's zero assurance of saving Saul (or at least saving him from likely torture) either way. Brody doesn't really enter into it for me, especially since neither he nor Saul had Aayan's heartbreaking oblivious innocence.

 

All that goes out the window, of course, when it comes to publicly explaining their decision to kill "a former CIA director" just to avoid a setback, so I think Quinn's reasons for stopping her were sensible and professional, not just ethical or emotional. Interesting how Quinn and Carrie were, in a sense, reliving the scene of Sandy's death (though at a safer distance) and reversing roles while again making impossible split-second decisions. Then it was Carrie saying of their abducted superior, "We just can't leave him" -- this time it was Quinn saying, in effect, "We can't just kill him."

[Pallas]

I also wonder at its taking a half a day of fruitless phone calls for anyone to think to check if Saul ever boarded the plane. When your Uncle Walter doesn't make it to the rehearsal dinner, and you then find out he never checked into the hotel, aren't you or even your cousin Madison likely to ask, "Do we know if he left Kansas City?"

[canshetype]

Duck Phillips really needs to get his comeuppance.  He's on my last frayed nerve.  And what is up with Former Drunk Agent (eta: Redmond)-- is he playing both sides of the fence as well? 

Edited November 3, 2014 by canshetype

[albaniantv]

That was such a heart pounder--Homeland regains its ground, and then some. It was fascinating and a bit reassuring to feel the room slip away from Carrie as she started barking orders while Quinn explained who Saul was. I want to believe that those "kill" rooms do have people participating in new decisions when the unexpected comes down. 

 

I found the Fara cleanup scene hard to to take in --so weird that one staff member, especially a woman was sent alone on such a major task. Were we being mocked watching the safe house become more and more unsafe?

 

I too want to see Duck Phillips move to the top of the kill list.

[vesperholly]

Also, Fara is clearing info from the safe house (alone, because that's plausible), she comes downstairs and sees that (a) the alarm has been tripped, (b) the bag of compromising items has been tipped over, and © the cardboard she taped over the broken window has been pushed away, and she...does nothing? It doesn't even occur to her that perhaps someone was there??

Seriously, show?

 

Yeah, between Fara and "Better call Saul", there need to be some performance evaluations done in the Islamabad CIA office.

[Artsda]

This is the CIA who has lunatic Carrie running things, Fara is the least of their issues. 

 

Carrie's meltdown to order the hit at the expense of a US CIA head just showed how out of her mind she is and that's with her meds. The little boy she cared more than Saul? Or her guilt of using the boy  because he's dead because of her. It was her plan and fault. The boy was also just stupid.

[LotusFlower]

The boy was also just stupid.

He really is stupid. His uncle is a targeted terrorist, he knows he's in danger, and yet he continues to trust and talk to people. Speaking of stupid....

...the terrorists were smart to drive three identical vans to the "meet" and then drive off in three different directions, but in a room full of intelligence officers, not a single one kept an eye on which van held Saul?

[Mama No Life]

Bad sign when you enjoy the recap so much more than the show.

And I am not excited about next week's episode. It's already so unbelievable for me that Carrie is allowed to be a station chief with bipolar disorder (and her history of fucking things up) so an episode about people messing with her meds is going to be hard for me to stomach.

I do wonder if she had any with her at the safe house....if she's been without them for a few days it could shed new light on her willingness to make Saul collateral damage.

[Haleth]

Ok, I see what you did there, writers.  Up till now we didn't really know anything about the uncle other than that he's a terrorist who needs medicine.  You make us love the Boy, then you have the uncle kill the Boy to remind us he's a bad guy.  Of course he would kill Aayan.  Most likely he's complicit in sowing the story that he'd be at the wedding where his entire family was wiped out.

 

As far as I can remember Saul wasn't expected to check in with Carrie or Peter once he reached Washington.  It wasn't until the Pakistani guy didn't turn up did any alarm bells go off.  Still, the agent who waited 2 hours to tell Peter that Saul was missing did screw up.

 

Speaking of screw ups, Fara, if alarm bells are going off and the window is open, it might be a good idea to tell someone.  Sheesh.  It's because she was so stupid as to let the ambassador's husband (I really need to pay attention to names) snoop around, Aayan was killed.  I really want the husband to get his comeuppance under US law, but he'll probably be shot by the woman he's passing information to.

[Mozelle]

I'm not too upset that Carrie reacted in the moment to Aayan's death. I don't think it was about her not caring about Saul. It was just very very fresh that she'd seen Haqqani put a bullet in his nephew's head. She's human. She fucks up from time to time, but she's till human. Expecting that she would be immune to it is a lot, I think. 

 

And not that I want Saul to die, but as was pointed out above, he's had his moments of questionable behavior. Though he got Carrie to go along with it, last season he did use her illness in the most public way possible to have her locked up in a hospital...for the good of the mission, of course.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Mozelle

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I knew Aayan was going to be killed by his uncle when he got the Fredo kiss of death.

 

Can't stand Carrie, but from a strictly unemotional point of view, isn't it smart to take that shot? Anything that happens to Saul in captivity can't be good.

Mr. EB was yellnig at her to take the shot because they are either going to kill Saul, hold him hostage, or torture him for information and then kill him. None of these are good situations for Saul so killing him now at least puts him out of his misery and avoids a slow painful torturous death. I think that if Saul could have communicated with Carrie in that moment, he would have told her to take the shot because the mission is more important than one person. But I also think that if Saul and Carrie had switched positions, Saul couldn't take the shot and let her die. He would tell everyone that they would find another way.

 

He really is stupid. His uncle is a targeted terrorist, he knows he's in danger, and yet he continues to trust and talk to people.

And not only did he talk, he told her that he was leaving, exactly where he was going, and what his cover story was. Idiot! He could have said he just got kicked out of school by her dad and didn't know what to do so he was going to get out of the city for a few days to figure out what to do next. He could have said since he wasn't enrolled in school, he got kicked out of the dorms so he was going to stay with a friend until he could find a place of his own. He could have told her a million different believable things and instead he told her what he was doing like the dumbass that he was.

 

Also, Fara is clearing info from the safe house (alone, because that's plausible), she comes downstairs and sees that (a) the alarm has been tripped, (b) the bag of compromising items has been tipped over, and © the cardboard she taped over the broken window has been pushed away, and she...does nothing? It doesn't even occur to her that perhaps someone was there??

Seriously, show?

I felt a little bad for Fara when Carrie ripped into her earlier and asked if she could handle a hefty bag in the name of serving America, but after she went to the safe house and just retaped the cardboard after someone had clearly broken in, I was like ehhhhh, maybe she deserved to be yelled at. Is it possible that being dressed down by Carrie made her think ehhhh, if someone broke in then this will just come back on Carrie so I'm not going to do anything about it or tell anyone?

[Constantinople]

Thank god the drone operators knew this was only Episode 6 and realized they couldn't take out Haqqani (and Saul), this early in the season.

[Raachel2008]

I felt a little bad for Fara when Carrie ripped into her earlier and asked if she could handle a hefty bag in the name of serving America, but after she went to the safe house and just retaped the cardboard after someone had clearly broken in, I was like ehhhhh, maybe she deserved to be yelled at

 

 

Eh, Carrie yelling at Fara would have worked for me if Carrie herself had some moral ground to be all sanctimonious hollier-than-thou when it is about protecting her country - hello, Brody and all the times she fucked up things because of him, effectively putting him before her country. However, I won't feel surprised if Fara turns out to be a double agent, because this show is too obvious sometimes.

 

The problem with the way Carrie reacted to Aayan's death is that once more she had no emotional control to make a decision of such magnitude. IF it had been a cold decision, it would still be an awful thing to do - kill Saul -, but it would have been a (5 seconds) pondered decision. But it was not. 

 

 an episode about people messing with her meds is going to be hard for me to stomach.

 

 

I loathe the Carrie is out of her meds episodes. Claire Danes is a fine actress but I cannot stand the way she plays maniac Carrie.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

As far as I can remember Saul wasn't expected to check in with Carrie or Peter once he reached Washington.  It wasn't until the Pakistani guy didn't turn up did any alarm bells go off.  Still, the agent who waited 2 hours to tell Peter that Saul was missing did screw up.

 

I think Peter screwed up by not telling Carrie sooner that Ghazi apparently hadn't reached Johannesburg - he told the other guy to get Saul's number from Carrie, but he wasn't willing to go to her himself because he's mad at her.  I am not sure how it could have changed anything, since it isn't like Aayan actually knew he was in the middle of the operation, and could therefore call it off, but it might have changed something.

 

Mr. EB was yellnig at her to take the shot because they are either going to kill Saul, hold him hostage, or torture him for information and then kill him. None of these are good situations for Saul so killing him now at least puts him out of his misery and avoids a slow painful torturous death. I think that if Saul could have communicated with Carrie in that moment, he would have told her to take the shot because the mission is more important than one person. But I also think that if Saul and Carrie had switched positions, Saul couldn't take the shot and let her die. He would tell everyone that they would find another way.

 

 

And yes, ElectricBoogaloo, as I said to my boyfriend last night, they are just going to kill Saul anyway or use him for propaganda purposes, so I am not sure Carrie's instincts were incorrect at that moment. On the other hand, someone on another board pointed out that legally, taking out an American citizen using a drone strike would probably have created even more headaches in DC. (Of course, in that case, it would be collateral damage, but still).

 

At some point this season, I'd like for the CIA on Homeland to start acting in a competent manner.  So far, we've the ISI act far more competently, and while I do know that there are troubles within our intelligence services, we've also had enough "wins" over the past several years for me to wish that we were seeing that.

Edited November 3, 2014 by eleanorofaquitaine

[ShannaB]

I did not like Season 3 of HOMELAND because I thought Brody's story should have ended with Season 2.  I decided to watch S4 to see what they would do to resurrect HOMELAND and if they could.  Thus far I have been 'squicked' as in a bit nauseous.  I can't believe Carrie could get the position she has based on her history both medically and Brody-wise.  I literally covered my eyes during the seduction scenes.  From the previews it seems we are now going to be treated to crazy Carrie due to a lack of the right pills and kidnapped as well, so I am thinking this plotting is geared to try and get Claire Danes another Emmy nod.  Claire D. is one of the producers of this show so I can picture the writers being told that they had to come up with a story that showcases more crazy range for Danes.  Gah!! I hate when a show does this!!

 

I seriously would sacrifice a roasted chicken to see more Rupert Friend kick ass as Quinn.  This may be the only reason why I am still watching.

[Marianne]

Here's what I don't get:  why would Haqqani (sp?) behave this way?  Why take the risk of showing up where he knew the CIA satellites and drones could target him?  Wasn't there a huge risk that the CIA would not have recognized Saul or that they would have ordered the drone strike anyway, as Carrie wanted?  Why not just kill the nephew quietly, stay in hiding, possibly preserving the illusion that you're dead,  and then use the captive Saul in whatever way Haqqani plans to use him (ransom, blackmail, torture, publicity, etc.)

Also, doesn't the CIA have the capability of tracking more than one vehicle at a time?  3 cars is a big deal?

It was also fortuitous that when Haqqani told Aayan that the CIA was watching, Aayan looked skyward in exactly the right direction.

It was all a little too pat, although it made for good drama.  (Loved that Saul had lost his eyeglasses, which of course would happen.)

 

I would also like to say that I hate the bipolar storyline.  It always feels like very casual demonization of a large group of people whose condition varies greatly and across a wide spectrum.  But on the show we have often people like loser-traitor husband of the ambassador referring to them as crazy or "hard core drug" users.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Marianne

[Constantinople]

At some point this season, I'd like for the CIA on Homeland to start acting in a competent manner.  So far, we've the ISI act far more competently, and while I do know that there are troubles within our intelligence services, we've also had enough "wins" over the past several years for me to wish that we were seeing that.

To be fair, the advantage usually goes to the home team. 

 

Here's what I don't get:  why would Haqqani (sp?) behave this way?  Why take the risk of showing up where he knew the CIA satellites and drones could target him?

So that the CIA would think Aayal was dead, because he's the true mastermind behind everything.

[scrb]

This is a monumental fuckup.  They get Saul captured and they don't get the terrorist.

 

And they don't even take out any of Haqqani's men, who are also on the hit list, because of the 3 SUV shell game trick?  Come on, they're taping it the whole time so it would be easy to figure out which one had Saul.

 

But not only does Carrie stay as station chief, she gets to run more missions.

 

Oh and some plagiarizing professor outsmarting the CIA and the diplomatic corps.  He not only gets into the CIA station chief's apt. but he eavesdrops on Carrie dressing down Fara and easily tails her, even though she went with a driver.

[bluebonnet]

Hmm.  I feel like if I shut off my brain completely this will have been a good episode.  Any tiny smidgeon of thought just makes it terrible.  Fara had no idea she was being spied upon, even though all the clues were there.  The Ambassador's husband apparently knows how to stalk trained spies without being noticed.  He can even do so  from a car.  The first step apparently wasn't making sure Saul got on the place.  The ISI officer apparently doesn't know that Carrie is bipolar even though the whole fucking world discovered this last season.  I could go on and on about all the things taht make zero sense.

 

Probably the only thing that made sense is that the drone pilots took their hands off the controls when their commander gave them a direct order.  I would assume there are protocols in place for disobeying an order if it's given in a fit of emotion.  It seemed like the pilots expected she would react that way, in fact the entire room knew it would happen, and not just because Carrie is bipolar and a woman, but because it's expected.  

[Kat]

 

 

So she's willing to do anything, sacrifice any operation, to save Brody, even just to clear his name, but she'll let Saul be murdered. She'll even cause his death.

Carrie is irredeemable.

Yep. That's pretty much how I felt after watching this episode. Right from jump this season, Carrie has been insufferable and I guess we're supposed to hate her? However, I care about everyone else around her so much that I keep watching this train wreck.

 

I swear, if Saul or Quinn dies...

[shelley1234]

I didn't love this episode and felt like it belonged in a different show.  I think that Carrie is a huge asset to the CIA, but not as the person IN CHARGE.  I think she is best when there is someone else who makes the big calls and she gets in there and gets dirty.  

 

Having said that, while it is shocking and sad and what have you that Saul was in the car...I would make the same choice that Carrie wanted to make.  She had one opportunity to get the shot and actually kill Haqqani.  She was willing to put all the innocent bystanders in harms way when she deployed the drone in the first place, so it should be a different decision when it is Saul in harms way?  In all honesty, if it was someone else standing there and Saul had to make the call...he'd order the hit too.  Sometimes you have to make the horrible call and sacrifice your own in order to get the job done.  Sorry Saul.  

 

I do think it's redonkulous that they didn't have someone watching and knowing which one of the cars that Saul and Co. were in.  I would have thought the CIA were better than that.  

 

I also have NO USE FOR FARA.  I know Carrie was all mean and pouty to her, but when they showed us that she can't handle a basic task...then maybe Carrie had the right idea.  I like Fara, but I don't think she's meant for field work.  She doesn't have the stomach for it.  She also is just mind numbingly stupid at times.  She didn't even call in that the alarm went off and the garbage bags were messed with?  She's sometimes too stupid to live....or more on the nose, she's too stupid for Aayan to live.  

 

 

I seriously would sacrifice a roasted chicken to see more Rupert Friend kick ass as Quinn.  This may be the only reason why I am still watching.

 

Yep.  Me too.  I'm watching for Quinn.  If you made a spin off Quinn show, I'd ditch Homeland in no time and be on that in 2 seconds flat.  

[ahpny]

 

Here's what I don't get:  why would Haqqani (sp?) behave this way?  Why take the risk of showing up where he knew the CIA satellites and drones could target him?  Wasn't there a huge risk that the CIA would not have recognized Saul or that they would have ordered the drone strike anyway, as Carrie wanted?  Why not just kill the nephew quietly, stay in hiding, possibly preserving the illusion that you're dead,  and then use the captive Saul in whatever way Haqqani plans to use him (ransom, blackmail, torture, publicity, etc.)

 

Good questions all. Nevertheless, apart from making for some drama, his actions are understandable if you want to make fools of the CIA. And, as we sadly know from real life, terrorists do like drama. Yes, in a purely rational sense, it might maximize your position to keep some of this secret and whack the nephew elsewhere. But vengeance and hubris can be hard to suppress. Also, presuming the CIA values not droning Saul (a big risk concededly), parading Saul around as your personal insurance against further drone attacks isn’t so bad. If they can recognize individual terrorists from drone cams, Saul would be expected to be even more recognizable given that Carrie and others have known him years.

 

What I didn’t get was how timing of the traitorous husband’s dirt on Carrie and the nephew factored into this. Wasn’t Saul abducted long before this? Could the uncle digest and use this information that quickly? I know the ISI lady-spy called someone right away, but it seemed like the terrorist uncle instantly knew everything.

[EyesGlazed]

What I didn’t get was how timing of the traitorous husband’s dirt on Carrie and the nephew factored into this. Wasn’t Saul abducted long before this?

Bingo, ahpny.  This is exactly what's bothering me too.  The kidnapping of Saul took place long before Douchebag Dennis tipped off the bad guys that the CIA was tracking Aayan.  So either Saul was kidnapped for some other reason, or the bad guys knew that the CIA was tracking Aayan before Douchebag found the photos, in which case how did they know?

 

I like Fara (and I will be totally pissed if the show makes her a traitor, as some have suggested, because we need patriotic Americans of Arab descent to help with national defense!! ok, off soapbox now) but that safehouse cleanup fail was cringe-worthy.  My recollection is that the alarm wasn't ringing, she was simply resetting the alarm, thus showing that it had been turned off (and so Dennis could enter undetected).  But the photos on the floor by the bag where she had stuffed them, and the fact that the cardboard barrier had clearly been messed with, should have alerted her to trouble.  Even beginner spooks are taught basic tradecraft, I assume.

 

To those who are lamenting how stupid Aayan was (too truthful/naive and/or bad liar), I say you are right and that was the point.  He was an innocent, young, unsophisticated person who was forced and manipulated into circumstances that were fatal for him.  It would have been contrary to the story and to reality to have him be some savvy, worldly prevaricator.

 

Yes please on more Quinn doling out the ass-kickings.

Edited November 3, 2014 by EyesGlazed

[Boundary]

Don't worry, Fara knew she was being spied on, she followed the ambassador's husband and saw him dealing with the ISI/Taliban operative. That's why she was offscreen as soon as her suspicions (and ours) flared. She, in effect, now has the only clue to lead them back to Saul.

[Mama No Life]

I hope that's true Boundary.

She wasn't resetting the alarm...it went off. It was soooo frustrating.

[LotusFlower]

Don't worry, Fara knew she was being spied on, she followed the ambassador's husband and saw him dealing with the ISI/Taliban operative. That's why she was offscreen as soon as her suspicions (and ours) flared. She, in effect, now has the only clue to lead them back to Saul.

What do you mean? If she knew she was spied on, why didn't she report it? The info. gleamed from the ambassador's husband led directly to Aayan getting killed.

[bluebonnet]

Don't worry, Fara knew she was being spied on, she followed the ambassador's husband and saw him dealing with the ISI/Taliban operative. That's why she was offscreen as soon as her suspicions (and ours) flared. She, in effect, now has the only clue to lead them back to Saul.

That was my first thought, but I can no longer even imagine the show going for the obvious.  Every major plot point in this episode was based on something stupid or completely illogical.  I definitely don't trust them to go the route that is logical and makes the most sense.  

[Boundary]

What do you mean? If she knew she was spied on, why didn't she report it? The info. gleamed from the ambassador's husband led directly to Aayan getting killed.

 

After the way Carrie talked to her? No way is she not going to double check first, preferably with that camera of hers. Fara isn't stupid, she cracked the money laundering scheme last year when no else could. And what she told Carrie is true, there wouldn't be a mission without her. But after that thankless treatment from Carrie, and considering who it is she'll be accusing, she would be wise to double check. Besides, no one can connect the dots to Aayan. In fact, I highly doubt that the ISI know that Tasleem is in cahoots with the Taliban. Also, Fara knew that when they first arrived in Pakistan Carrie kept them under the radar for a reason, there's no one to trust.

 

ETA: do you why Fara would be ideal to catch Boyd spying? He was careless and left evidence of his presence, so he's not good at spy craft. And Tasleem didn't know about Carrie's off book operation, meaning she doesn't know of Fara. Fara could've simply stood there taking pictures unnoticed. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Boundary

[RandomX]

That was brutal to watch and I thought they did well with episode pacing. I suspected Aayan was not long for this world -- love the Fredo's kiss reference above -- but I thought showing his journey, his close escape during the documrnts check, and having him go all Huck Finn on the concrete block in the river amped up the emotional stakes. RIP, Aayan - sorry that your innocence was shattered right before you bit it.

Carrie is not a good manager, but we've been shown and told that she is a brilliant recruiter. She had a worldwide network that managed to keep Brody more or less alive with a ten million dollar bounty on him, apparently to pay back favors. In my own non-Homeland related work, I've seen people who wete exceptional at certain aspects of their duties get promoted to management positions. Certainly Carrie's CIA situation stretches credibility, but I can suspend some belief when a show manages to deliver on the emotional level, and this episode did.

Duck Phillips really needs to get his comeuppance.  He's on my last frayed nerve.

Fuck the Duck - Chauncey & Aayan forever!

[LotusFlower]

After the way Carrie talked to her? No way is she not going to double check first, preferably with that camera of hers. Fara isn't stupid, she cracked the money laundering scheme last year when no else could. And what she told Carrie is true, there wouldn't be a mission without her. But after that thankless treatment from Carrie, and considering who it is she'll be accusing, she would be wise to double check. Besides, no one can connect the dots to Aayan. In fact, I highly doubt that the ISI know that Tasleem is in cahoots with the Taliban. Also, Fara knew that when they first arrived in Pakistan Carrie kept them under the radar for a reason, there's no one to trust.

But that's not how spies work. Esp. in this situation, when Aayan was on the loose, and leading them to his uncle, #1 on their kill list. Everything moves fast, and you don't "sit" on information in order to double-check it, or because your boss degraded you. You pass on or share information immediately, as evidenced by Quinn chewing out the guy who didn't tell him about Saul as soon as he learned of it. I'm not sure if more is going to come out of the safe house mishap, but regardless, the fact that the ambassador's husband got in there, found what he found, and passed it on to the ISI contact means that Fara has already failed.

[Boundary]

... the fact that the ambassador's husband got in there, found what he found, and passed it on to the ISI contact means that Fara has already failed.

 

But it's Carrie who failed Fara, motivating her subordinates, who did brilliant work, should be her job. And Fara didn't fail if she kept herself alive and gained an extra lead to investigate. Calling up superiors would not have stopped Boyd doing his deeds; without proof the ambassador's husband walks, and Fara loses her job. And with it Carrie loses the one thing wanted to find out: what happened to her predecessor. Quinn and that guy's situation was different, he was not about to accuse the spouse of a senior official of treason.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Boundary

[LotusFlower]

But it's Carrie who failed Fara, motivating her subordinates, who did brilliant work, should be her job. And Fara didn't fail if she kept herself alive and gained an extra lead to investigate. Calling up superiors would not have stopped Boyd doing his deeds; without proof the ambassador's husband walks, and Fara loses her job. And with it Carrie loses the one thing wanted to find out: what happened to her predecessor. Quinn and that guy's situation was different, he was not about to accuse the spouse of a senior official of treason.

I think we're talking about different things here. I was more interested in plot developments, thinking maybe I missed something, and you might be talking more about speculation or character motivations. Take Boyd, for example. I'm not saying Fara should have immediately contacted Carrie and presented her case - the ambassador's husband is feeding Intel to the enemy, and here's my proof! What she should have done was tell Carrie that the hefty bag containing vital information about Aayan was compromised. Or at least her suspicions. Spy work is tedious; details are important. Who knows what they could have done if they knew Aayan's itinerary was missing, or that Saul was missing hours earlier?

Is it Carrie's job to motivate her subordinates? Well, yea, I suppose, but I would say it's not exactly priority #1 on this day, in the middle of a mission.

[Maximona]

 

Is it Carrie's job to motivate her subordinates? Well, yea, I suppose, but I would say it's not exactly priority #1 on this day, in the middle of a mission.

 

I dunno.  One of the things that made Saul such a great op was that he always managed to motivate his subordinates and manipulate the canaries around him at the same time.  

 

The plot really worked in this episode, but I'm really turning off to the show because Carrie is just so unlikeable.  I can barely bring myself to watch her on the screen,  Ironically, one of the problems here is that Clare Danes is such a great actress that she's breathing real life into this highly unendearing character.

 

Totally made sense, of course, to use sex as a recruiting tool with the boy.  In fact, of course, this is exactly what Carrie did with Brody.  One assumes it's her modus operandi.  But I suppose in these days when binge-TV watching has superseded going to movies, movies still have the edge at presenting morally ambivalent characters.  On the TV screen, I seem to be drawn to characters who are likable somehow.  Jerks that do horrible things.  But likable jerks that do horrible things.  Maybe that has something to do with watching in my home versus watching in a blackened theater where I can suspend my own moral biases more easily.  

 

Carrie is just too unsympathetic for me to care what happens to her.

 

I am looking forward to Quinn infiltrating the Tribal Region to get Saul back, though.

 

 

[Mozelle]

My memory is failing apparently. When did Fara follow Duck Phillips (what's his name here?) and Tasneem? Or is this a theory being posited?

As for the timing of it all, hasn't only about 48 hours (plus 12, perhaps) passed? In essence, two and a half days. When Fara and Quinn were at the border to try to place the tracker on Haqqani's car, it was nightfall. Saul was in the trunk. The following morning, Quinn visited Carrie at the safe house and told her the news about Ghazi at the airport. So:

Day 1: Saul at the airport; Ghazi at the airport; Saul abducted at the airport

Night 1: Fara and Quinn at the border to place the tracker; Saul in the trunk at the same border

Day 2: Quinn at the safe house to give Carrie the airport news

This episode opens with Carrie and Aayan practicing his cover, but that could easily be the same morning/late morning when Quinn came to the safe house. The majority of this episode unfolded over the same day (thus my 48 hour theory), and it was the next morning (the plus 12 hours part of my theory) when Aayan met up with his uncle.

[LotusFlower]

My memory is failing apparently. When did Fara follow Duck Phillips (what's his name here?) and Tasneem? Or is this a theory being posited?

The latter.

I dunno. One of the things that made Saul such a great op was that he always managed to motivate his subordinates.

Maybe, but I think he always managed to keep his eye on the prize while in the middle of a mission. Spy work isn't for the needy. If you need validation or hand-holding, maybe find a different line of work? Look at Carrie and Quinn, and even Saul - dogged determination, a calling to serving their country, constant reprimands, and they keep at it, without needing a pep talk or a pat on the back.

[Neurochick]

This was an interesting episode because I felt it was meant to show the difference between "them" and "us."  The terrorists will do whatever it takes for their cause; even an uncle killing his own nephew.  Most reasonable people would say, "Fuck you, I'm not going to kill my own flesh and blood."  But the terrorists knew that Carrie and Co. wouldn't strike if Saul was there.  

 

One who has nothing to lose is the most dangerous one.  

[albaniantv]

Boundary--hoping, no, betting you are right about Fara and Boyd.

 

Great episode  -- even though, looking back, it was so obvious Aayan would be killed, I still was shocked when it happened.

 

Almost as shocked as Carrie, whose heart is now pulsing with guilt.