S04.E05: Breaking Glass

[scarynikki12]

I don't think Lily's Harry Potter reference will result in anything.  Warner Bros. has the rights to that franchise, not Disney.  I do expect Lily to have some kind of magical connection to Emma that is yet to be revealed, but it won't be Potter related. 

[KingOfHearts]

This episode might have had poor writing because it strayed from the Frozen story a bit. We had a break from it in the flashbacks, and Elsa's fear lesson was a very minor plot point. The best parts of the episode were easily the Snow Queen's scenes, which is closely related to the Frozen stuff going on. So far, I haven't liked anything in S4 that wasn't Frozen-related. It's been 3B-level and worse. Just by judging the writing quality you can tell Disney has a tight leash on all things icy.

Edited October 28, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

If the house Emma and Lily broke into was actually Lily's family's house and that's how her father found them, I think the real issue with Lily lying to Emma wasn't so much that Lily was playing at having the life Emma was forced to have while rejecting the life Emma wanted, but that her lie was somewhat responsible for putting Emma back in the system. It looked like Emma was being sent off with a social worker, and she ended up in another group home with DQ as foster mom. If Emma had known that they were at Lily's family's house and that this made it just about inevitable that they'd be caught, she might not have been so eager to join in, and by Lily playing "unwanted runaway" when she actually had a family looking for her, it got Emma caught and sent back to foster care.

 

That may be the parallel they were straining for, with Lily unintentionally causing harm to Emma like Emma supposedly did to Regina. Except from there it doesn't track. For one thing, lying and breaking into a house are wrong, regardless of intention, while saving the life of an innocent person is not a bad thing. Also, if that's the parallel they were going for, it should have been Regina realizing that it was wrong to shut out someone who didn't mean to hurt her.

 

I just wish I knew where they got this idea that good guys aren't allowed to ever get mad about what's done to them. It was so much fun in season one when Emma got to snark back at Regina. I'd have been a lot more on board with the idea of Emma and Regina having some kind of frenemy relationship if they'd actually been allowed to hash things out -- if Emma had been allowed to point out that if you want to talk about life ruining, look at what happened to her life due to Regina's actions. Or if she'd been allowed to say that it's funny that Regina is getting all histrionic about her boyfriend's wife miraculously returning when she did the exact same thing to Mary Margaret in bringing up David's "long-lost" wife and giving him fake memories of a marriage so Mary Margaret couldn't have him. Regina's pitching a massive fit over experiencing something she actually did on purpose to cause hurt to someone else. Even if Emma doesn't realize that Regina murdered Graham, she could have said she knows what it's like to lose someone she was just starting to get involved with when Graham died, and then if Regina had any conscience at all she could have had an inward "oops" moment. But since the good guys aren't allowed to be angry and since Regina's the only one allowed to have feelings so that all that happened was Regina being hurt and upset and Emma begging not to be shut out, this "friendship" feels awfully hollow.

[Camera One]

, I think the real issue with Lily lying to Emma wasn't so much that Lily was playing at having the life Emma was forced to have while rejecting the life Emma wanted, but that her lie was somewhat responsible for putting Emma back in the system.

 

I suppose the writers could argue that if not for Lily, Emma would have been caught with stolen goods, and perhaps arrested and she would end back up in the system anyway.  

 

Unfortunately, I just found the actress who played Lily to give off creepy predator vibes.  Maybe something with her eyes or something.  I know it doesn't make any sense but that made it difficult for me to buy into the "friendship".  Not to mention what was the point of making her a Regina-lookalike.  I was half waiting for them to reveal that was Regina's twin sister who Cora sent to the Land Without Magic, so Emma actually "betrayed" both Regina's.  And that means there's another Adult Regina (aka Lily) out there seeking revenge on Emma.  LOL!  Or maybe I shouldn't laugh.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Camera One

[kili]

I suppose the writers could argue that if not for Lily, Emma would have been caught with stolen goods, and perhaps arrested and she would end back up in the system anyway.

 

That was a strange scene. Who gets arrested for stealing goods in the store? Maybe Emma was just a quirky person who uses her jacket instead of a shopping cart. At least wait until she gets past the cash registers before you confront  her. Yes, she is likely to steal the pop-tarts, but she hasn't committed any crime until she does. So, either the guard was an idiot or she was just trying to give Emma a warning.

 

Emma is a terrible shop-lifter. She totally got spotted when she was stealing with Neal too. It's a good thing she got scared straight.

[stealinghome]

Unfortunately, I just found the actress who played Lily to give off creepy predator vibes.  Maybe something with her eyes or something.  I know it doesn't make any sense but that made it difficult for me to buy into the "friendship".

This! I'm not sure if it was the script, acting, directing, or some combination thereof, but something about Lily seemed really creepy to me. I just kept thinking "Emma, RUN AWAY, this girl is trouble!"

[snarkastic]

Oh, I just remembered another line that bothered me. Snow/(David?) saying something like, "not having the best track record of keeping hold of their baby between the curse and Zelena." Not Regina and Zelena. The curse. As if it happened all on it's own. Bleh. (Unless I'm misremembering. I was having a hard time watching without wanting to watch.)

[Shanna Marie]

I suppose the writers could argue that if not for Lily, Emma would have been caught with stolen goods, and perhaps arrested and she would end back up in the system anyway.

That's the fallacy of all of Regina's "you ruined my life!" screeching. You don't know what might have happened otherwise. For all Regina knows, Cora would have killed Daniel whether or not Snow said anything, or she and Daniel would have run away together but then broken up. She and Robin might not have made it past the third date, whether or not Marian returned. Or Robin could have been killed by someone coming after Regina, and that won't happen because he's with Marian. Emma getting sent back into the system might have protected her from something worse that might have happened, or it's what led her to the running away that led her to Neal. That's why it's ridiculous to blame anyone else for ruining your life. People may harm you and cause terrible things to happen to you, but it's up to you whether you let that "ruin" your life. Really, even Regina didn't "ruin" Emma's life because while Emma has gone through a lot of pain because of what Regina did, she's a strong, compassionate person who's found a calling and is surrounded by people she loves. She might not have been nearly as awesome a person if she'd grown up as a spoiled princess. But the outcome is up to the choices Emma made and how she responded to what life dealt her. What would Regina have done with her life if she'd been in Emma's shoes?

 

Unfortunately, I just found the actress who played Lily to give off creepy predator vibes.  Maybe something with her eyes or something.  I know it doesn't make any sense but that made it difficult for me to buy into the "friendship".

My perception may be skewed because the teens I deal with are in a very privileged community, but Lily struck me as a kind of "tourist" -- a spoiled rich kid who's bored with having every advantage and seeks attention by stirring up drama. She's got a home and a family but likes playing at being poor and homeless for fun without appreciating what it's like to have that life without any safety net. It's a more dramatic and risky version of the rich suburban white kids who like to pretend to be "ghetto" in their "hood" of $500,000 homes. She may have been truly emotionally neglected because her parents were too focused on work and their own social lives, or her feeling invisible may translate to "they didn't listen to what color car I said I wanted."

[KingOfHearts]

Lily came off as a compulsive liar, bad girl kind of person to me. She belonged in the Breakfast Club, honestly. Something about her felt snooty. I almost expected her to be Young Regina somehow.

[KAOS Agent]

Emma is a terrible shop-lifter. She totally got spotted when she was stealing with Neal too.

 

Nope, Neal got spotted putting Apollo bars in his pocket, not Emma. 

 

I think the real issue with Lily lying to Emma wasn't so much that Lily was playing at having the life Emma was forced to have while rejecting the life Emma wanted, but that her lie was somewhat responsible for putting Emma back in the system.

 

I got the impression that Lily was playing at being a runaway. She had her daddy's gold card and I'm thinking the house they broke into was her parents'. No way would her father have just randomly found the house they broke into in the middle of the night. Not to mention, he wandered in on his own as well. No adult would do that unless it was their house. Plus, Emma would totally have been arrested and charged for breaking and entering and that didn't seem to be the case. She was just hauled off back to Boston. Incidentally, the taxpayers in Massachusetts ought to be seriously pissed off that they are paying for the care of foster kids from Maine. Those kids are Maine's responsibility and you can't tell me that Maine doesn't have its own foster system and instead has to ship its kids a couple of states away. Most kids stay somewhat near their biological family for visitation purposes and because the goal of the foster system is to reunite children with their parents if at all possible.

Edited October 28, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[shapeshifter]

...I do expect Lily to have some kind of magical connection to Emma that is yet to be revealed...

I keep thinking we've seen the star tattoo on the wrist somewhere before.

[kitticup]

I found this episode to be an odd duck. There was something very off in this that I can't quite place my finger on. It felt disjointed.

1. I usually love all the Frozen characters but here Elsa seemed shoe horned into the episode. Everything seemed contrived with her. I thought it funny that she blows away the snow queen.

2. I don't think the flashbacks worked with sb storyline. What Emma went through doesn't parallel her relationship with Regina.

3. While I absolutely loved much the CS scenes, I feel the writers need to be careful about not making hook too much like the knave. I've noticed more of a cockney accent in hook and less vocabulary porn.

4. I wonder if this was meant to be the 4th episode. The 5th tends to suffer from the World Series. It happened with good form. I wonder if Disney exec thought it was a little weaker and had it switched. I think this because this would explain how hook knows about video cameras. Also there was no mention of the hat storyline.

5. I didn't like Emma and Regina's interactions here. Normally I like them to have scenes together but not this time.

Things I liked:

1. Sidney finally breaking free from the evil queen, but he does seem to want someone to order him about.

2. EM was coolly menacing and creepy.

3. Snow and Charming are cute together.

4. I loved the last scene with Emma and Hook. The chemistry was there. He was being supportive and genuinely interested in his Swan. Emma was open and vulnerable, and freeze frame of the snow queen's face was chilling.

Edited October 28, 2014 by kitticup

[foreverevolving]

 especially since I finally figured out who played Lily. It was Christie from Defiance. That was just bugging me I couldn't remember her.

 

OMG!! friggin thank you! every time she came on screen i was taken out of the scene because i knew i've seen her before and i couldn't remember from where. i haven't watched Defiance since the last 3/4 of its 1st season and i keep forgetting to go back to it.

[ShadowFacts]

 

I got the impression that Lily was playing at being a runaway. She had her daddy's gold card and I'm thinking the house they broke into was her parents'. No way would her father have just randomly found the house they broke into in the middle of the night. Not to mention, he wandered in on his own as well. No adult would do that unless it was their house.

 

That was pretty much my thought, only I suspected it was grandma's house.  There's no way the dad would have found them in a specific lakeside mansion without a reason.  It's altogether possible Lily was lying about being adopted.  She seems like an emotional mess of a kid who was way too needy about glomming onto Emma. 

 

[AV8n]

Nope, Neal got spotted putting Apollo bars in his pocket, not Emma. 

 

 

I got the impression that Lily was playing at being a runaway. She had her daddy's gold card and I'm thinking the house they broke into was her parents'. No way would her father have just randomly found the house they broke into in the middle of the night. Not to mention, he wandered in on his own as well. No adult would do that unless it was their house. Plus, Emma would totally have been arrested and charged for breaking and entering and that didn't seem to be the case. She was just hauled off back to Boston. Incidentally, the taxpayers in Massachusetts ought to be seriously pissed off that they are paying for the care of foster kids from Maine. Those kids are Maine's responsibility and you can't tell me that Maine doesn't have its own foster system and instead has to ship its kids a couple of states away. Most kids stay somewhat near their biological family for visitation purposes and because the goal of the foster system is to reunite children with their parents if at all possible.

I could have sworn the flashback said that the thing with Lily happened in Minnesota.  Where else would one expect to find a Scandinavian-type Snow Queen?

[YaddaYadda]

I could have sworn the flashback said that the thing with Lily happened in Minnesota.

 

It did.  Emma hopped on a bus from Boston to Minnesota. 

[Shanna Marie]

I got the impression that Lily was playing at being a runaway. She had her daddy's gold card and I'm thinking the house they broke into was her parents'. No way would her father have just randomly found the house they broke into in the middle of the night. Not to mention, he wandered in on his own as well. No adult would do that unless it was their house. Plus, Emma would totally have been arrested and charged for breaking and entering and that didn't seem to be the case. She was just hauled off back to Boston.

Yeah, that's what I figured, that unless that house belonged to Lily's parents, her father wouldn't have found her there, wouldn't have just walked in, and there would have been cops instead of just what appeared to be a social worker. So while Lily might actually have run away, it was more like a lark or like "runaway tourism," since she had her dad's credit card and had a nice vacation home to run to. So she hurt Emma on multiple levels. There was the disappointment after thinking she'd found a kindred spirit to learn that Lily actually had nothing in common with her, there was the anger that Lily had everything Emma wanted and was rejecting it in order to pretend she had the life that Emma was stuck with, and then there was the fact that because of these lies Emma was put in a position where she could be caught and be sent back into the system, and Lily didn't seem to appreciate the fact that this was a real risk for Emma. Maybe she thought Emma was like her and playing at it rather than really being an orphan. If Lily had really been what she pretended to be, there would have been other risks, as the consequences for breaking into a house like that would have been greater if her family didn't own it, but they also might have been less likely to be caught if it really was a summer house and no one would have noticed until they were long gone (though you'd think a house like that would have an alarm system, especially if it's vacant for much of the year). So for Emma it was yet again a case of almost having something good, only to have it ripped away again.

[NotBothered]

I read the io9 episode review this morning and it was like whiplash when you spend most of your Once related time over here.  Are we all watching the same show?

[RadioGirl27]

That review is the biggest piece of crap I've ever read in my life.

 

Edit to take off the horrid quote from that review I had post. It was so disgusting that I don't want it in my post.

Edited October 28, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Dani-Ellie]

I choose to pay no attention to someone who calls Marian "Marianne." And I'm sorry, but saving an innocent person's life is not wrong. Period, full stop. Marian was an innocent on Regina's death row, Emma didn't ask to time travel, and Emma did what she could to minimize the damage to the timeline after she saved an innocent woman's life. Letting Marian go off into the past could have been disastrous, far more disastrous than bringing her forward. Equating that to villainy is disgusting.

 

And this is where it would have helped to have Emma actually standing up for herself rather than following Regina around like a kicked puppy. Because that kind of Regina-sympathy is rage-inducing. God forbid Regina actually have to face the consequences of her own actions. I appreciate Emma wanting to try to make it up to Regina because she didn't intend to hurt her, but at the same time, Regina has intended to hurt Emma many, many times over the course of this series, up to and including trying to kill her, and that all gets ignored because Regina's feelings are hurt? Cry me a fucking river.

 

*deep, cleansing breath*

[Curio]

That review has to be a joke, right? Like, there's no way someone who watches this show actually thinks that way, right??

 

"But, alas, this series doesn't want you to hate Emma. They want you to love her, so Emma gets a flashback. A flashback that is all about Emma."

 

I...can't...even...what? Emma is the show's protagonist, so yeah. You're supposed to like her. Second, are we seriously going to complain about getting an Emma flashback when it's Season 4 and she's gotten exactly one full flashback prior to this? That reviewer seems to have even less self-awareness than Regina.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Curio

[PaperScissors]

Wow.... I can't believe I read that review. Like, I feel like I fell through the looking glass into a parallel dimension where everything is upside down.

 

I'm actually angrier about the episode now than I was before reading that.  Which is hard, because that episode made me pretty angry. Luckily I was carving a pumpkin while I was watching so I was able to channel some of my anger onto my poor jack o'lantern.

 

Are we all watching the same show?

 

 

Indeed, an excellent question!

 

The only things I liked about that episode:

-the Captain Swan scenes - they were truly wonderful! (OMG they are the cutest eva! CaptainSwan 4Life! Yes I recognize I sound like a teenager but I make no apologies. The scenes were that great)

- Snowing - they were cute - Ginny really sells her scenes, even if it is just the "B" plot

- The Knave. He interests me.

- Young Emma, who did a great job channeling Emma's sadness and lonliness (Because of Regina.... sorry, I'm frothing at the mouth again...)

 

... and that's it.

 

Lily creeped me out, and I have no words for the Regina/Emma scenes, as everyone has already articulated it very well.

 

I'm just hoping this means we don't have to deal with this Regina-being-so-mad-at-Emma thing again. Silver linings, right?

Edited October 28, 2014 by PaperScissors

[YaddaYadda]

Future reference to myself, links not to click...that one!

 

I hate the writers on this show.  This is the end result of the Regina worship.  So thanks for nothing!

[ImogenLeFay]

 

Are we all watching the same show?

 

To be fair, I was wondering the same when I watched the episode and all that about Marian being frozen was somehow Emma's fault, and how Emma screwed Regina over. Like, seriously, show? Are you sure we're talking about the same events here?

So maybe we are watching a different show and the reviewer watched the same show the characters must have watched? I don't know.

 

And again, how is Regina's life even ruined? Seriously, even if we imagine that Emma brought Marian with her deliberately to screw with Outlaw Queen, how would that be ruining Regina's life? It would be mean, but Regina's life doesn't depend on that relationship. She was fine a week ago when the relationship didn't exist. She still has Henry, she still has a support system - not that she'd appreciate it - and the people of Storybrooke actually show her some respect, way more than they should. She doesn't have to pay for her crimes, she's just tolerated if not even accepted in Storybrooke. She just lost a boyfriend, nothing else has changed. How is that a ruined life?

[PaperScissors]

Oh! I forgot to mention one of my favourite parts about the episode!  Sidney standing up to Regina!

 

You go Sidney!

 

#TeamSidney

#Sidneyismyhero

#GlassisBack

[El Seed]

I read the io9 episode review this morning and it was like whiplash when you spend most of your Once related time over here. Are we all watching the same show?

 

What the hell did I just read? Saving an innocent person's life is wrong because someone's feelings get hurt? That's some fucked up morality, and it's horrifying that people have actually bought into this. Dear Adam and Eddy: This is why I don't let my nephews watch OUaT in my home, because I'm afraid they'll learn the twisted morality you present in your show. Saving the life of an innocent person is always the right thing to do, no matter how much the Creator's Pet whines and cries.

[Christi]

Off topic :/

Why is Snow White fat now? Is she preggers IRL?

She looks actually fat...not padding after baby-fat.

[Christi]

Dang...cant edit post on my phone...anyhoo...just googled it...guess she is preggy. Wow...she really swelled up like a tick

[MaiLuna]

What happened to these A&E? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCH-kOm6AMo Now they seem to have forgotten that Regina cast the curse and ruined Emma's (and hundreds of others') life.

Edited October 28, 2014 by MaiLuna

[Emma]

That review was truly disgusting. I wish I could bleach my brain now.

[AV8n]

I wish Emma would have said "Eff this, yeah I saved Marian's life and given the chance I'd have saved all the other innocents you murdered over the years.  Eff you, eff the space-time continuum, and eff the fouled-up justice system of Storybrooke that ranks breaking into a library as a greater offense than murder!"

[SzmuttyPratfall]

On further reflection I actually really like this episode. Emma is not currently mentally in a place to call Regina on her bullshit, so the show was doing it for her. Regina was being horrible to Emma who is blaming herself, while the show was actively reminding us that Emma's life is horrible BECAUSE of Regina, and the life she had because of the curse. I don't think the show was acting as if Regina is right, I think the show is acting as if Regina is horribly wrong, but Emma, due to her recently shaken confidence, can't say it. 

[NotBothered]

That review was truly disgusting. I wish I could bleach my brain now.

I am sorry for spreading the grossness.  I just needed to hand some of the rage off, because I couldn't take it all by myself. 

 

I could handle the Woegina stuff so much better if they would just throw us a bone sometimes.  All we need is the occasional reality check.  "I'm truly sorry I ruined your life Regina, but don't forget you caused me to be sent alone through a magical tree as a baby and grow up without love or a family.  And erased my parents memories for 28 years."  OR JUST HAVE HER APOLOGIZE. 

[Emma]

I am sorry for spreading the grossness.  I just needed to hand some of the rage off, because I couldn't take it all by myself. 

 

No need to apologize. If we can't rage together here then who can we rage with? :)

[MedievalGirl]

Christi - Ginnifer Goodwin had her baby in April. I think she looks awesome and authentic and I am so happy to have her on my screen. 

[Shanna Marie]

Re that review:

Well, now I know where all the commenters calling healthcare workers who go to Africa to care for Ebola patients "selfish" because they don't consider the infinitesimal chance that they might spread the virus to random Americans on the street (never mind that the only two people actually infected in the US were nurses and the people living in the home with the patient didn't get infected, which tells you how hard it is to catch it) come from. They're reviewing for that site. And that must be the demographic the series writers are aiming at. Way to go!

 

I swear, this show makes A Game of Thrones look like Sunday school. While that show does tend to linger lovingly over violence, it doesn't show us people doing evil things and then tell us that they're good and that their evil is the fault of the good people.

[FabulousTater]

Just What in the actual Fck! 

I crossed the Rubicon, people. I signed up for their stupid account just to post my response. I couldn't take it anymore. I'm tired of seeing these brainwashed morally perverse Regina fans post these reviews and no one says anything. Well, I did and I don't effing regret it. Don't care. I kept it nice, but lemme tell you...there was nastiness just waiting to be unleashed....it was something about hoping the writer of the review is never in the position of needing their life saved, 'cause god knows, apparently, that's an unforgivable sin.

 

I can't believe this is what it has come to. This episode just shed light on to what is a very disturbing problem with the writing on this show. The absolute gall, beyond the pale, shaming and verbal abuse that they subject Emma to for simply doing the right, for saving an innocent person's life. That is morally perverse. That the writers don't let Emma stand up for herself and instead revel and take delight in Regina shaming her and abusing her is repugnant. I can't anymore.

 

ETA:

 

I swear, this show makes A Game of Thrones look like Sunday school. While that show does tend to linger lovingly over violence, it doesn't show us people doing evil things and then tell us that they're good and that their evil is the fault of the good people.

This. Game of Thrones is a paragon of virtue compared to the message OUAT is sending. Here on OUAT (on a fairy tale show for "family", oh sweet irony) doing the right thing is wrong and the good guys should beg forgiveness from the bad guys when they ruin the bad guys plan of murdering people.

Edited October 28, 2014 by FabulousTater

[scenicbyway]

I thought the review was actually pretty funny.  There's no way to really take it seriously, I wondered if the writer was trying to be sarcastic even.

[Amerilla]

'Once' is one of those shows io9 loves to hate. They thought it was crap from the get-go, and they've *always* recapped it that way. Sometimes their snark is on target, sometimes not so much. I'm not even sure this cracks the Top 5 of nasty reviews they've done.

Nor does it much matter. Their target audience is other hate watchers, who have as much right to be catered to as any other group, I suppose.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Amerilla

[iMonrey]

So Elsa decided to chase after someone who is both calling for help and moving away? And she didn't think it might be a trap?

 

LOL. Good point.

 

I love how everyone just pops into Regina's vault for a visit now like it's her summer home. The whole reason it's down there under her father's mausoleum was because it was supposed to be a deep, dark secret back when the curse was in effect and nobody knew who Regina really was (or who they were, for that matter). Now that the cat's out of the bag, I see no reason why Regina shouldn't move those supplies to the comfort of her own, obviously large house. There's no reason she should have to keep shoving her father's sarcophagus off to the side every time she needs to do a little magical research.

[KAOS Agent]

There was the disappointment after thinking she'd found a kindred spirit to learn that Lily actually had nothing in common with her, there was the anger that Lily had everything Emma wanted and was rejecting it in order to pretend she had the life that Emma was stuck with, and then there was the fact that because of these lies Emma was put in a position where she could be caught and be sent back into the system, and Lily didn't seem to appreciate the fact that this was a real risk for Emma.

 

I think there were a lot of signs that Lily was playing and truly had no idea what Emma's life was like. She may have even been somewhat envious of Emma's seeming independence and just thought how fun it would be to have a buddy on her runaway "adventure". Emma wasn't alone by choice and she was stealing food because she was starving, not because she was in some teenage rebellion phase. When Emma was just shoving the food down her throat and had to explain that where she comes from you eat fast or someone bigger and stronger will come and steal it from your plate, I don't think that really computed with Lily. If Lily had ever been in the system like Emma had, she would have understood immediately what was going on. There was also her shock that Emma had never played video games before and it required Emma telling her that no one she'd lived with had the kind of money for things like that. I think that even at the end, Lily didn't really understand how much she had hurt Emma because she really didn't grasp how lonely and desperate Emma was and that while they were having fun, it never was a game to Emma.

Edited October 28, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

This episode seemed like a SQer pacifier to me. Emma's proclamation to be Regina's friend seriously came out of nowhere. I didn't even see a point to having Regina in the episode, except for Sidney's portrayal. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but it all felt extremely forced to me.

 

"We need to make Regina and Emma friends ASAP because it would be really cool and it would please the Evil Regals. Let's just do it with Emma asking her! We'll do a big twist where she's been secretly wanting to do so this whole time! The audience thought it was just Emma trying to be a good person, but nope! Secret Regina love. Now let's tell Disney it'll be about Elsa dealing with her fear, and they'll approve it. We'll even throw in the Let It Go staircase for extra measure!"

Edited October 29, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[regularlyleaded]

I've been giving some thought to the whole Regina kicks Emma around the forest like an abused dog scenes, and aside from the fact that I'm still stewing with blind rage about it all (and I may have envisioned about 1,000 ways to kill Regina dead, slowly but painfully ), the biggest problem I think I have with all those scenes is that Emma never defended herself. That not only strikes me as uncharacteristic of Emma, but it presents what is really the kick in the teeth for me in those scenes.  Here's the thing -- I think the idea of Emma letting Regina berate her without defending herself was the writers letting Regina let her frustrations out (understatement of the year) about her situation and Emma show the "respectful restraint" because she's a compassionate person. While venting your anger at someone to a certain extent is excusable, they crossed waaaaay over the line (as per usual) with those scenes and so what we have wasn't Regina venting. What Regina was doing to Emma in those scenes was flat out verbal abuse, especially when you see Emma sits there and takes it and it hurts her. Emma isn't laughing it off.  I don't think that the writers understand that verbal abuse is still abuse. It's not outwardly hurtful like violent physical abuse, but it is a death by a thousand cuts. Words hurt and repeated verbal abuse is like flaying someone's sense of self-worth, and it's ugly. So seeing the writers take almost perverse pleasure in having Emma prostrate herself to this abuse was disturbing (and what makes it even more alarming is that Emma did nothing wrong here. She's basically taking a beating for being a good person). 

 

It also bothers me that I've seen around the web that some reviewers (and viewers) enjoyed seeing Emma take an emotional beating like that. That's gross and a bit stomach churning. I don't have any particular fondness for Belle, at best I can say I'm indifferent to the character, but I wouldn't even want to see her subjected to the kinda shit that Regina dished out in this episode. It was just gross and I'm disturbed that the writers don't see a problem here. 

 

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that they find verbal abuse amusing since S1 Henry was being emotionally abused by Regina, and that was ignored. And Regina was keeping Graham as an unwilling sex slave and they denied that's what it was. So, I guess I'm the fool here. Nonetheless, I find this upsetting and worst of all this is supposed to be a family show. That no one corrected Regina's behavior and called her on her shit? Well, that sends a troublesome message to a part of the demographic that is very impressionable. I hope parents are like, "Ya, Elsa's nice, kids, but don't you ever in a billion years do what Regina is doing even though the show is rewarding her for behaving like a vicious animal. We don't treat people like that no matter how angry you are (and especially when your reasons are crap)."

Edited October 29, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[Rumsy4]

I fully agree regularlyleaded. And when we add in the fact that Regina has victimized, terrorized and abused Emma, her parents, her biological son, the message seems to be that the victim needs to not only forgive their abuser for everything they did, but they must also take the abuse meted out by the abuser at any given time. It's deeply disturbing. 

 

 

So seeing the writers take almost perverse pleasure in having Emma prostrate herself to this abuse was disturbing.

 

I felt that too. They seemed to enjoy letting Regina figuratively stomp on Emma while she was lying prostrate. 

Edited October 29, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

I really don't get the point of those scenes, really.  I've already said it once above, but they were repetitive.  I was reading what the actresses said in the EW interview about the episode:

 

“She feels extremely betrayed by Emma and won’t let her off the hook that easy,” Parrilla says, teasing that Regina will “suffer a loss” during the hour. “She plays really hard to get throughout the episode. Regina lashes out verbally quite a bit. It’s like every scene is another snarky remark, but it’s warranted because she’s been burned. She doesn’t hate Emma. She’s just really upset with her.”

 

What does she mean it's warranted?  She doesn't hate Emma but she's just "really upset" with her?  How about at herself?  Emma doesn't need to be "let off the hook" for anything... didn't Emma already tell Regina that she's not going to apologize for saving someone's life in the season premiere?  Regina still hasn't made a proper reply to that.

 

Adds Morrison: “It’s definitely complicated. It’s good that they’re getting it out in the air, though. They definitely are finally talking about the complications of Marian coming back. It seems like Regina understands that Emma clearly didn’t have bad intentions and didn’t realize what she was doing, but that doesn’t change how much it sucks.”

 

Getting what out in the air?  Regina's frustrations at Emma?  Again, didn't she already vent her frustration, once in "There's No Place Like Home" and once in "The Tale of Two Sisters".  I don't recall ANY real discussion in this episode about "the complications of Marion coming back".  

 

Did the actors get to read and act out a different script which airs in an alternate universe or something?

[Rumsy4]

What else could JMo say, though? That Emma gets relentlessly brow-beaten and stomped on by Regina for a whole hour? That the writers were using Emma as a punching bag to express their frustrations at Disney not letting them use Woegina as Elsa's BFF? That Emma grovels at Regina's feet for the whole episode? There was nothing else she could have said. 

[stealinghome]

Yeah, that definitely seemed to me to be JMo just towing the party line.

[Emma]

Compare Jen's interviews when she's talking about anything else to do with the show to this past episode. There is such a difference in tone. That was enough for me.

[Camera One]

I blame the writers, since they really have zero choice about what their characters do.  Whether it's the party line, or what they actually think, I feel sorry for them for having to act out this nonsensical stuff which is not true to their actual characters.  That is the real challenge.  I can imagine her trying to say "I just need you to be my friend" five hundred different ways, since how can that sound natural.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Camera One

[El Seed]

Parrilla says, teasing that Regina will “suffer a loss” during the hour.

 

 

Her slave escaping is "Regina suffering a loss." I don't know if you can get more tone deaf than that.

 

Two days later and I'm still pissed off about this episode. It's only 5 episodes into the season and I'm really close to hitting show fatigue. That's faster than any other show I've ever watched, including Smallville. I don't know whether to applaud the showrunners for achieving that or what.