S05.E01: No Sanctuary

[henripootel]

Eugene claimed he worked with the government on weaponizing infectious diseases. Where did he do that, nobody knows!

There's a super-secret base out in the american west where they test chemical and biological weapons, and it's not the only place where we did this.  This place was the test range, and some things got away from them.  There was a spring where the flies had Yellow Fever, a small forest where the squirrels had plague, and other areas with worse. They tried to weaponize stuff (to learn how to deal with it when bad guys weaponized stuff) and there's really no substitute for testing in the real world.  Thank god the area is so desolate that nothing travels far.

Edited October 17, 2014 by henripootel

[RedheadZombie]

If they're going to insist on shoving the cartoon trio and their ridiculous "save the world" mantra (I simply cringe every time Abraham says that) down our throats, I'm going to be seriously disappointed if one of the survivors of the CDC doesn't point out that they've been there and saw and heard firsthand that there was nothing.  Of the original group, that would be Rick, Carol, Daryl, Glenn, or Carl.  I'm optimistic that Sasha and Michonne already both look pretty skeptical.

 

I'm not saying I believe Eugene, but it's probably been one and a half years since they were at the CDC.  I would like to think that any scientist left alive would still be working on a cure.

 

It came up a few pages back, but I'm still wondering if the baseball bat blow to the head is enough to prevent turning.  Zombie lore is pretty consistent when it comes to destroying the brain, but in Zombieland a "double tap" to the head was good enough.

[NurseGiGi]

I'm going to have to start calling the group Camp Dinner Bell again if they just blindly go on a trek with Eugene without at least asking him a few questions.

[NoWillToResist]

 

If it cures the virus that causes the brain to reanimate the body, then it would kill the virus. In the living and the dead. That's not the part I find implausible.

 

I guess the problem that I have is that, IIRC, he specifically said that it would take out the walkers...he made no mention of curing the living.

 

I suspect that he doesn't know that the living are infected. Either that or he's pulling a Rick and keeping it from the group...

Edited October 17, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[bentley]

I'm sorry that there is no redeeming Gareth. Ever since he appeared in the season finale, I've held out a tiny bit of hope that he would not be the villain he appeared to be. I haven't seen that actor in anything else, but he's a pretty boy who can actually act. I like the way he adds a little something to his line readings that make even banal lines interesting e.g. "That was a big bag". I can think of at least 3 current cast members I'd happily lose to replace with Gareth. Oh well.

[TexasChic]

Agreed. He's an exceptional actor and exceptionally pretty.

[HalcyonDays]

Hey Everyone. Just a reminder to everyone on sufficient spoiler tagging of plot points from the comics.

 

From the Comic Talk thread, "Any major plot points from the comics that haven't been on the show should absolutely be spoiler-tagged".

 

First, please be mindful of your wording when posting spoiler-tagged information relating to the comics. Sometimes the wording before and after the spoiler tags is enough to give away spoilers to others. Even tongue-in-cheek hints at things that happened in the comics is still a spoiler and unfortunately ends up giving away stuff to those who desire to remain unspoiled.

 

If in doubt - spoiler tag anything that relates to the comics. Thanks. Now get back to your awesome and insightful conversations!

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Loved this episode. I thank the stars above they didn't drag out the escape like I thought they would.

 

Tyreese kicked some ass (finally!) - good for him. Judith is absolutely adorable.

 

Carol is a bamf and we all know it. Now the group does, too.

 

Carl. He's a stand up dude. Not too much from him but glad to see he believes in his dear old dad again.

 

Flashbacks made me feel bad for the Termites. Don't forgive them, though. How does that turn one into a cannibal? I understand killing others for protection, but cannibal?

 

Agree with PP about Eugene - I don't think he knows anything at all. I'm also curious about the two with him (forgetting names right now). They obviously have some secret. Maybe the three of them are making it up so the group will go along with them? Maybe they want to go to DC for some other reason? (Though, living in the metro of DC, I can tell you they're going to have Zombies galore on the way and when they get there. Doesn't anyone seem to realize this???)

 

I have more to say, but I forget. :/

[Armchair Critic]

Carl. Not too much from him but glad to see he believes in his dear old dad again.

 

I can't help it, I have always loved Rick and I'm glad that Carl respects his dad again. I really loathed this kid the first few seasons but I am hoping that he keeps being less irritating.

[Boofish]

Until he proves otherwise, I pledge my loyalty regarding Eugene to Team Full of Crap

[Ocean Chick]

Eugene knows enough science to fool Abe and Rosita (and probably Abe's commanding officer) into keeping him safe.  But that's probably the most Eugene knows about science.  He's full of crap otherwise.  Hopefully he can use that blarney ability to good use on the road though, against other groups who'd like to hurt our heroes.

[JackONeill]

I still think Eugene knows something about something.  (Wasn't that precise?)  Despite the way he looks, I don't think Abraham is a buffoon.  Also, he strikes me as someone who if he thinks you're pulling a fast one on him, he's not going to be real happy.  Abraham seems committed to getting Eugene to where he wants to go.  Maybe that's the good soldier in him, but he certainly knows that there's no more reason to be a good soldier.  The world's gone to hell in a hand basket.  I'd be thinking of my own ass, instead of traipsing all over creation.  Unless he really, really believes Eugene knows something.

[gaPeach]

Although personally, I wouldn't mind going through the ZA with Kurt Russell's Captain Ron.

 

I wouldn't mind doing ANYTHING with Kurt Russell!

[JackONeill]

Speaking of Kurt, what we need in the ZA is Snake Plisson!

[bosawks]

I still think Eugene knows something about something. 

 

That actually sounds like Eugene..........

[Mu Shu]

The actor was just very charismatic. Of course I don't like the character he portrayed.

He was a carpet bagging jackanapes of a Termite, but the actor was fantastic. 

[kikismom]

This isn't from the comics, and it's from the first episode which already was seen, so it can't be a spoiler.

 

https://i.imgur.com/gi9OY5c.jpg

[AngelaHunter]

mysterious classified location

 

That "Classified" crap bugs me no end. Really, does Eugene the Clown think Rick, et al, are going to run to the nearest newspaper or TV station to blab all this classified stuff? I think whatever information he has should be beaten out of him.

 

Kikismom - Capt. Ron?? Oh shit-oh-my-dear! I would definitely prefer Kurt Russell running around in his bathing suit, spouting silly one-liners than listening to anything else from Mullet Boy the clown. At least that would be entertaining. One thing for which I am grateful is that Eugene changed from those shorts to long pants. Take a hint, Rosita.

[ghoulina]

This isn't from the comics, and it's from the first episode which already was seen, so it can't be a spoiler.

https://i.imgur.com/gi9OY5c.jpg

 

Yea, I saw that one FB, but I didn't make much of it. It looked like they just put a bunch random, biker/prison tattoos on that guy - an a cross is a pretty standard tattoo. That's what the one on his head looks like - it's more upright. The thing on the tree is more like an "X"; they just seem different to me.

[nodorothyparker]

Rosita was wearing more clothes than Maggie this episode.  We promise everyone will still think you're hot if you button your shirt, Maggie.

[CarpeDiem54]

Aha! Remember the walker catcher in the woods that looked like Morgan's work? Perhaps the Rapist, Pilagers and Plunderers visited Morgantown first and he's hot on their trail.

[kikismom]

Yea, I saw that one FB, but I didn't make much of it. It looked like they just put a bunch random, biker/prison tattoos on that guy - an a cross is a pretty standard tattoo. That's what the one on his head looks like - it's more upright. The thing on the tree is more like an "X"; they just seem different to me.

The Zodiac killer also used the alpha/omega cross in a circle.

[JBody]

What can I say that hasn't already been said and said well?  Love this place.  Anyway, I thought I'd pick on two people who hadn't gotten quite as much attention as our original CDB folks....

 

1.  Mulleted Eugene, the Science Guy: "I was part of a 10-person team at the human genome project [a real thing] that weaponized diseases to fight weaponized diseases [they were tasked with mapping the genome which finished in 2003, so we have now entered the conspiracy theory realm]. Pathogenic microorganisms with pathogenic microorganisms. Fire with fire [this makes no sense whatsoever]. Interdepartmental drinks were had [what?], relationships made [this dude lived in his mom’s basement], information shared [again, hard to believe even if the weapons project was real]. I am keenly aware of all the details behind failsafe delivery systems to kill every living person on this planet," [no, you’re not] "I believe with a little tweaking on the terminals in D.C., we can flip the script. Take out every last dead one of 'em. Fire with fire." [again, you have no idea what you are talking about.  I want to believe you Eugene.  I do.  But…. You make it so hard.]

 

2.  Scary Mary (who looks positively demonic, red face, crazy hair, black, beady eyes shining): "The signs, they are real. It was a sanctuary. People came and took this place. And they raped and they killed," …beat… "But we got out and we fought and we got it back and we heard the message... You're the butcher or you're the cattle." Carol asks where her people are, no response from Mary, Carol shoots Mary in the leg.  Mary falls to the floor and asks for a bullet to the head.  "You could have been one of us," Mary says. "You could have listened to what the world is telling you." That was one of the scariest scenes in the entire crazy ass premier.  What is the world TELLING you?!?

[PunkyMouse]

What is the world TELLING you?!?

 

Soylent Green is PEOPLE!

 

As for Eugene, now I'm no genius, but I'm heavy into genealogy and am fascinated by DNA mapping, etc. The Human Genome Project, as far as I know, was completed in 2003, and the purpose was to sequence and map all of our genes. So what Eugene is saying is that he and his mystery scientist buddies spent the ensuing years developing biological warfare that would affect humans at the genetic level? I'm not a scientist, nor do I play one on TV, but wouldn't that kind of mutation not go into effect until the next generation? Like, only the fetuses conceived AFTER mass exposure to the pathogen would be zombies?

Edited October 17, 2014 by PunkyMouse

[The Mighty Peanut]

http://i.imgur.com/28lWQ04.jpg

 

She'd have made a fine young cannibal. #rimshot

Edited October 17, 2014 by The Mighty Peanut

[NurseGiGi]

I think Lizzie would have fit right in with the Termites.  She would be perfect for either hitting them with the bat or cutting their throats.

 

As for the Human Genome Project, I have a feeling that one of the writers heard that name somewhere and thought it would sound really cool and scientificy.  I mean, they're not exactly known for doing proper research (or it seems that way), and don't even seem to have a show Bible so I'm not really basing my reservations about Eugene based on his explanation (as ridiculous as it sounded).  My suspicions are based on 1) He has a mullet, 2) He runs and doesn't move his arms, and 3) He really does seem to have lived in his mom's basement.  I think after his mom stopped bringing him sandwiches he was forced to go upstairs and realized mom and dad had been eaten by zombies and he needed to figure out a way to survive. So yeah, I think he's full of crap.

[NoWillToResist]

 

Rosita was wearing more clothes than Maggie this episode.  We promise everyone will still think you're hot if you button your shirt, Maggie.

 

Now I'm amusing myself picturing Maggie always thinking she was the 'hot one' of the group and then Rosita turned up and Maggie was all "dang, gotta up my game! Lemme undo some buttons..."  ;)

 

Also, a slight nitpick, none of them looked at all as if they'd spent much time in a metal box in the middle of the day in Georgia...shouldn't that have been a sauna/sweathouse?

Edited October 18, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[LilySilver]

I agree, they didn't look sweaty enough. Except Carl of course. Carl's hair is soaking up extra oil to make up for the blow-dry look on Rosie and Mags.

[JBody]

Haha PunkyMouse, yes. I love me some Chuck Heston in his prime. He did some great post apocalyptic cinema back in the day. But the words of scary Mary haunt me still. You could have been one of us, you could have listened to what the world is telling you... well now, it's true, she could have been, they could have been, and they still could be (although I don't see our merry band as cannibals, but it's the whole slippery slope thing again) and I think Carol did listen to what the world was telling her, and that's why she killed Karen & David. Anyway, total creepfest. Great ep. Brought me back to S3 opener which was really tense as well.

[HalcyonDays]

Has anyone mentioned this? - I don't remember reading it. The ventilation in that railcar where Rick and Sasha and the others were held must be pretty good. We saw the Termites throw that gas canister into the rail car, knocking out everyone. Then we see Rick and the others being dragged out. A few minutes later, the scene goes back to whoever was left in the railcar and the air is perfectly clear? I doubt they were moved to another railcar. Maybe they were. If not, those guys have strong lungs. My immediate thought was that those left behind would badly choke from the air - possible to death. But they were fine.

[AngelaHunter]

JBody - kudos to you for not only listening to Eugene's annoying babble that sounded like he was reading it (badly) from Post-It notes, but actually taking the time to write it all down.

 

Every time he opens his mouth, my brain freezes.

[Starchild]

Aha! Remember the walker catcher in the woods that looked like Morgan's work? Perhaps the Rapist, Pilagers and Plunderers visited Morgantown first and he's hot on their trail.

Maybe he was a Termite. [duh duh DUH]

[CarpeDiem54]

Nooooooo! Not our Morgan!

[kikismom]

CDB: please please remember if you see Gareth again---ask him if his mother is the lady in the painting and if she had something to do with that dead family!!!

That cannot remain unsolved.

[CarpeDiem54]

Then bury that red machete in his skull.

[ghoulina]

CDB: please please remember if you see Gareth again---ask him if his mother is the lady in the painting and if she had something to do with that dead family!!!

That cannot remain unsolved

 

I second this. That picture looked a lot like Mary. Maybe the family in that house belonged to Mary's sister. Maybe they found out what she was doing at Terminus and that's why the painting is all defaced, and they offed themselves when they realized just how bad the world had gotten.

[kikismom]

I second this. That picture looked a lot like Mary. Maybe the family in that house belonged to Mary's sister. Maybe they found out what she was doing at Terminus and that's why the painting is all defaced, and they offed themselves when they realized just how bad the world had gotten.

 

Or maybe they were getting little "care packages" from Mary to help with the food situation...and then one day, after they'd been consuming the "venison" for some time, Mary gives a little talk about "what the world is telling you".

Knowing the world is so bad people are killing humans for meat, and you just fed your kids human flesh? That might be when the mom said "We're done here."

[bosawks]

So if Maggie Greene decided to stay at Terminus would she have changed her first name to Soylent?

[lulee]

Now I'm amusing myself picturing Maggie always thinking she was the 'hot one' of the group and then Rosita turned up and Maggie was all "dang, gotta up my game! Lemme undo some buttons..."  ;)

 

Also, a slight nitpick, none of them looked at all as if they'd spent much time in a metal box in the middle of the day in Georgia...shouldn't that have been a sauna/sweathouse?

Mysteriously, it only had the sauna effect on Maggie, causing her to shed clothing and open buttons.

[apollonia666]

I too really loved this episode but there was one minor thing that really bugged me: What the hell kind of metal were Rosita's earrings made of?  It was soft enough that she was able to break them into pieces and bend them straight with her hands to fashion into her little killing fork, but it was hard enough to take out a walker with one punch to the forehead?  Seriously?  Was anyone else as annoyed at this as I was?

[AngelaHunter]

I really have to rewatch this episode before tomorrow night, since I seemed to have missed or forgotten a lot, like Maggie shedding clothes and Rosita killing zombies with her earrings.

 

I'm not too skeptical about people lying there letting zombies eat them and seeming to put up no fight at all. That reaction can sometimes be seen when lions attack their prey and the animal goes into shock and doesn't even struggle as it's being ripped apart.

 

Tyreese fighting off a bunch of zombies and not once being bitten is harder to swallow, especially since this is the second time he's done that.

 

Speaking of Kurt, what we need in the ZA is Snake Plisson!

 

Or Wyatt Earp and his Immortals. Not a single Termite would have been left alive.

[NurseGiGi]

I'm casting another vote for Snake Plisken (I'm sorry, don't know the correct spelling).  He was badass and perfected the sweaty, scruffy, greasy look long before anybody else did.  And the eyepatch.  If Snake had been cast as the governor I would have kicked Andrea right out of his bed.

 

I can just see Snake now - lighting up his cigarette, tilting his head to one side then shaking his head with disbelief at our intrepid group.  Because, really, they do some pretty dumb things this far into the ZA when they should know better.

 

I'm still not over them burying the guns but leaving no one behind with said guns in case they needed help if things went south.  But if they had left someone behind then Carol couldn't have come up and gone all Ripley on their asses.

[Mu Shu]

Screw Rosita, Abraham, and Mullet boy.   Rick could have taken a team back to Terminus under the cover of night draped in zombie guts.    The termites wouldn't be expecting that, and they could have finished the job.   Rick's group hadn't lost any people, and the Termites would be on the defensive in a very precarious position.    But of course Gareth must live another day to come back like the Governor did. 

[Irishmaple]

Glenn spoke against Rick's suggestion too, didn't he?  Nobody seemed enthused, with the possible exceptions of Daryl, Carl and Michonne who are basically Rick's people and, while badass as all hell, probably insufficient in number given the amount of Walkers around.  Personally, I think they should have gone back and made sure the place was Clear (tm Morgan)  Once Carol showed up, it was on to the next item on the agenda anyway.

 

I'm actually looking forward to seeing Gareth again, if that's where the show is going.  I'm hoping the writers will do something new with the Villain Who Survived rather than have him lurking around all vengeful and twisted (though admittedly Gareth has the twisted part nailed already)  I'm really curious to see if someone who went through everything Terminus did can come back from all of that.  I'm not looking for redemption or anything, but I do have a soft spot for all shades of grey as well as self-interested altruism and pragmatic evil in my entertainment. 

[mamcu]

bentley, on 13 Oct 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

I know it's silly to worry about the fates of imaginary characters, but I found myself hoping the owners of the teddy bears did not get the same clubbing/throat slashing at the trough that the adults did. In my mind, they were given an overdose of sleeping pills mashed into their food and never woke up. If you think differently, la la la I can't hear you.

 

The hapless Albert has gotten two mentions on the show now. That has to mean we're going to meet him, right??  When the Termites Strike Back, maybe we'll witness him accidentally shooting one of his fellow Termites in the back, and we'll all think to ourselves, "That's GOT to be Albert..."

 

It was so dark in the "Then" train car scenes. How did everyone figure out the crazy guy Glen released from the train car was the bad guy who victimized Gareth and his people? And what happened to the train cars of people we could hear asking for help when Rick and his gang first got to Terminus? Was the crazy guy the only one who got out?

 

I agree that if someone doesn't show some extreme skepticism soon over Eugene and his story, Iif not outright accusing him of lying, 'm not going to have much respect for the group's intelligence.

 

I liked the actor who played Martin. He did a lot with a small role.

How come the crazy dude was still living in the container?  If he was one of the dudes that had been raping and pillaging he would have been dinner a long time ago.  Why keep him around?

[mamcu]

It amuses me that the cannibals apparently have reports and paperwork.  Gareth was walking around with his notebook like some asshole mid-level micro-manager.

 

 

Which would truly be a living hell.

 

Nothing like being micro-managed after the world went to hell.  Let's make sure we get those TPS reports out on time!

[JBody]

TPS: Tasty People Stew. As in, "Gareth, I've filled out my TPS reports for today, can I have my red swingline stapler back? No, not red handled machete, I SAID stapler!" & etc.

[NoWillToResist]

 

The ventilation in that railcar where Rick and Sasha and the others were held must be pretty good. We saw the Termites throw that gas canister into the rail car, knocking out everyone. Then we see Rick and the others being dragged out. A few minutes later, the scene goes back to whoever was left in the railcar and the air is perfectly clear?

 

Well, unless I'm misremembering, in order to get the gas canister in, they basically lifted the roof off the train car, no? So, once the gang is knocked out, the Termites could raise the roof again (heh) to air it out once they've retrieved their prey...?

[NurseGiGi]

I've often wondered why they don't use the zombie guts camouflage trick more often.  I mean, they could keep an old poncho or some random piece of clothing on hand for such occasions.  I agree with you, Mu Shu, the remaining Termites would not have expected that and they could have gotten Michonne's katana back!

[Starchild]

But of course Gareth must live another day to come back like the Governor did.

This is indicative of the main reason I may stop watching this show despite how much I love it. I get the feeling from some of the things Kirkman says (like we may never find out how all this started because that doesn't really interest him) that there is no real endgame for this story. It's just going to be "wash, rinse, repeat" storylines with ever-changing groups of characters going through the same types of experiences. And that he's just going to do this, here and in the comics, for as long as he can get away with it. And it's too bad because the best TV is TV that is telling a specific core story over a finite period of time. Anything else is bound to decline in quality after a while.