S03.E01: The Calm

[KirkB]

Yeah, that's my thing here. I'm not at all surprised they killed Sara, I was expecting that, just not in the last minute of the first episode. I figured it more likely for the mid season break, maybe even the finale.

[Kromm]

That was a really good, fast paced episode up until the end when they settled for trite fridging to jump start yet another hero journey. 

In the immortal words of Milos the Janitor as memorialized by the current KING OF DISPARATE TV THINGS MOUNTAIN champion... "Refrigemator so messy. So, so messy."

[AzureOwl]

Suffice to say that I’m extremely pissed off that they killed Sara. How dare they?! She is one of the best things to come out of this show! They had better give us plenty of flashbacks to soften the blow.

 

Other than that, given that it’s going to be on another network and therefore not crossing over with Arrow, Berlanti and Co. had better be considering casting Caity Lotz as Supergirl. Seriously. Supergirl might not be the most martial artsy superhero out there, but Caity has the looks and she can more than handle the stunts.

[writersblock51]

About that...

The jacket doesn't even seem to fit her. Or it just looks like that because she's wearing it over regular clothes instead of a leather bustier?

 

I figured the chances were high that Sara would die, be seriously hurt, or just go deeeeeeeeeeeeeep underground for 'reasons' at some point. But I also was feeling pretty confident that her fate wasn't decided so early, so that the show could get Laurel started on her journey and gauge fan & critical interest.  So the immediacy of Sara's death bothers me a great deal.  The graphic nature of it (a dumpster, really?) bug the heck out of me. The implications, though, infuriate me. Because the show is at risk, I think, because of this ridiculous decision.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Still.  So.  Angry.  It doesn't feel like the trade for Laurel becoming BC is Olicity.  It feels like Olicity just ended before it even had a chance to begin.  Even if Olicity actually does happen, I don't trust these A-holes not to kill off Felicity so that their precious dream of Oliver/Laurel can be fulfilled.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I have stopped watching shows for less even after years of watching.

Sara's death gives clear indication the path the show is taking. Had Sara disappeared for a bit instead of dying, Laurel still could have started her journey and it would have left them room and time to choose between BC or another character. Lawyer was working for her for the beginning part of the episode. Her death by way of dumpster was a disrespect to the character and a large portion of the viewing audience.

Arrow just became a show I don't want to watch anymore. I now know what they are doing with Laurel and I don't want to ride that train. Oliver's rinse and repeat is counterproductive. Digg remains awesome, but they shelved his storyline. Olicity is a wait and see.

Fanfic and YT will give me my favorite parts of the show. I might miss the visuals of the stunts, but I will get my Team Arrow and Olicity servings elsewhere.

[mizminnie]

UGH ....they just HAD TO kille Sara just so that stupid, stupid Laurel can become Black Canary ....Shudder.

Seriously, ist there ANYBODY out there actually looking forward to Laurel's grand transformation which is obviously gonna happen thus season. It really doesn't matter how they write it ...it's gonna be completely stupid. There is no way you can actually a) make me like useless, useless Laurel and b) no way in hell Cassidy will EVER be able to carry that kind of part or make it look like Laurel is capable in any superhero way. Just because the producers love her ....does not make her a good actress. And let's face it .....it's not like ARROW is Masterpiece theatre. But apparently somebody at the CW really has the hots for her and wants her to be a star. Fine ...but do you have to ruin one of my favorite shows to do it? SIGH

[Orion]

Because after that episode I needed a little laugh and this gave it to me I'm going to post a person's picture recap for this episode.

 

http://prattschris.tumblr.com/post/99538326970

[writersblock51]

 

Oliver's rinse and repeat is counterproductive.

 

This was the first thing that bugged the heck out of my husband. I'm surprised he didn't say "Man up!" to the TV. 

 

I do think one of the unspoken messages coming out of this episode is that no character is safe except for Oliver and Laurel. Now I've put Quentin on a Death Watch. And I have no doubt that Felicity is on thin ice for the duration as well.  While CL isn't nearly the fan favorite that EBR is, we don't know how EBR's popularity will be down the road. If her popularity dips lower than Oliver's on those otherwise-meaningless polls, then I can see her leaving the show.  And Felicity will die in such a way that Oliver will not hesitate to run to Laurel for comfort.

 

Not that I'll be watching the show by that point.

[moviewhore]

I'm out I think.  Or I'll watch but not pay attention.  Because my worst fear was realized with Sara's death-Laurel will be the Canary for the sole reason that the writers have a hardon for Katie.  Seriously, it's Smallville all over again with how Amiles made Lana into the end-all to be-all.  I'm so fucking sick of great, complex characters being sacrificied on the altar of Ollie's manpain and making Laurel into a goddamn superhero who, right now, couldn't throw a punch or release an arrow.  Tommy, Kate, Moira. and now Sara all gone.  And all of them had more inner life than Laurel could have.  My blood pressure was skyrockeing when Sara was killed.  Then I was like "There is no reason for m to watch now."  I knew the leather jacket from last season was foreshadowing and having that fucking mask land at Laurel's feet cemented that for me. 

 

I don't care about Ollie's journey anymore.  I don't care about he and Felicity getting together anymore.  I don't even care about Diggie becoming a dad.  I just don't give a shit now. 

[Anthea]

Hello!

I was going to say, what a good comeback for Arrow! And then the last few minutes happened.

 

I liked almost everything: Count vertigo and the action scenes, Oliver fighting himself, Diggle and his adorable little girl, Oliver making a necklace for her, EVERYTHING that had to do with Olicity which was wonderful and heartbreaking (their chemistry is mindblowing) even Roy was ok (it really shows that some months has passed...suddenly he's got a suit and he's doing stuff with TA) Felicity was fracking awesome and I loved how she was no-nonsense with Oliver. Ray was meh, actually I found him a bit creepy when he basically stalked Felicity but so far he isn't that dislikable. The interaction with Felicity is good, but nothing close to the chemistry of F/O.

I was glad to see Papa Lance back in form and even Laurel seemed tolerable...and now I know why, they were preparing us.

I liked Sara, I liked her Black Canary, but I knew, even if I wanted to deny it, that sooner or later she was going to be gone, but not so suddenly and brutally (the scene itself it's UGH). It's such a contrived plot device!! Writers are not going to do any favor to Laurel with that choice, and I hope the backlash is big enough. I think I read it here, but someone said that they traded Lauriver for Olicity in change of LL as BC. And somehow I think it makes sense and I can understand it. Despite their epic failure in the writing of LL, they have a duty toward the actress (disclaimer: I believe she was miscast) and this is the choice they made.

Let's see what the future episodes bring us, I want to stay positive, but it certainly didn't start well.

[foreverevolving]

Because after that episode I needed a little laugh and this gave it to me I'm going to post a person's picture recap for this episode.

 

http://prattschris.tumblr.com/post/99538326970

That brought a much needed smile and a good chuckle to this gloomy morning!

Thank you. always trust Tumbler and the net in general for a good chuckle.

[eragon194]

I'm out I think.  Or I'll watch but not pay attention.  Because my worst fear was realized with Sara's death-Laurel will be the Canary for the sole reason that the writers have a hardon for Katie.  Seriously, it's Smallville all over again with how Amiles made Lana into the end-all to be-all. 

I'm definitely reminded of the Kristin love on Smallville, yes. But with Kristin at least I understand the infatuation. With Katie Cassidy I just cannot, She cannot act, and doesn't have the looks either. Why would they ever have a hardon for her? So it's more likely that she gets to stay and better characters are sacrificed, because the network is bound to the contract and cannot afford the payout.

Edited October 9, 2014 by eragon194

[Moya the Leviathan]

To the universe

SEND. MORE. ICE CREAM.

[slayer2]

Indeed. Why couldn't they just kill off laurel? Then everyone could be happy.

I wouldn't be. I'm okay with Sara being "dead" on Arrow. She didn't have a very long life expectancy in my opinion anyway. I love Caity Lotz and will be following her career (just as I follow her on instagram) but if her character is dead or "dead" I can see why.

Since I started watching the show (in mid-season 2) my appreciation for Sara was greater than my appreciation for Arrow/Ollie. The show kind of shot themselves in the foot creating a hero who was all around more awesome and a better fighter than Oliver. It kind of reminds me of Season 5 and 6 of Smallville when Green Arrow and Chloe were my favourite characters and I just wanted Clark to disappear.  

I've also noticed a lot of folks paying more attention to Felicity than they do to Ollie's arc and to a lesser extent being more invested in Sara than Ollie so I can see why TPTB would do it if they did indeed kill Sara off. Unless they're going to spin her off and give her her own show (which I'm all for) then they can't do too much else with her on this show as they need to focus on Ollie the team he's building, the city he's saving and how to unscrew up his mental psyche.

 

Now that they've got the Olicity romance brewing and Laurel training soon, the role of love interest has been taken by Felicity and the role of Black Canary is being filled by Laurel which is technically how it should have been all along. Canary was a detour on the inevitable path the show was taking.

 

The problem I did have with the episode was not so much the story but the editing and direction. I didn't really connect to the stories because it seemed every scene was missing the beats following the big reveals.  When Peter Stomare (whom I think is fantastic) first appeared it all happened way too fast. When Canary returned it happened too quickly, we didn't get a nice scene to settle into it and BC's death scene was waaaaay too fast for someone who's been on the show for a full season. I think they've had longer death scenes with special guests stars. Hell, the Huntress' father's death was longer than that (and dragged out over many episodes).

 

Whoever directed (and edited) this episode has some 'splainin' to do IMO. The pacing was about as bad as that backdoor pilot to the Supernatural spinoff that never happened. I loved that Barry appeared briefly to tie-in to The Flash episode (which I absolutely adored) but that was about it. I was pretty confused for the rest of it. Even the Olicity kiss, declaration of love and aftermath (and I am NO shipper of these two) felt rushed and short compared to what I assumed was its two season lead-up. It was just weird. Weird, rushed and didn't feel much like Arrow. Felicity didn't seem as surprised as I would expect her to be either. I dunno, I'm super glad Arrow is backI think the story is headed in the right direction but I found myself more invested in the characters on The Flash (whom I just met) then characters on Arrow I've spent two seasons with. Even Canary's death didn't affect me, too fast show. Too fast.

 

ETA I should mention that I really appreciated Oliver mentioning that he felt something with Felicity from the moment he first met her because I always wondered why he was so eager to tell her who he was and rely on her over everyone else so that cleared some things up. The whole date, dinner everything lead up was quite nice and I liked that he finally admitted he loved her. I also loved seeing Brandon Routh (my Superman) on my screen and I'm excited to see what KC can do physically once the vengeance plots set in. Hopefully The Huntress (my favourite) will be dropping by as well.  I think this certainly isn't the last we've seen of CL though as the producers said they were trying to line her up for more than a few episodes and were mentioning her availability, so whether flashbacks or whatnot I'm confident in that.

 

 

Can we leave Katie's looks out of it? I'm uncomfortable with that kind of criticism because a) it's gross, and b) the list of problems with her character is a mile long, and absolutely none of them have to do with her face.

Thank you!! Agreed.

Edited October 9, 2014 by slayer2

[apinknightmare]

I'm definitely reminded of the Kristin love on Smallville, yes. But with Kristin at least I understand the infatuation. With Katie Cassidy I just cannot, She cannot act, and doesn't have the looks either. Why would they ever have a hardon for her? So it's more likely that she gets to stay and better characters are sacrificed, because the network is bound to the contract and cannot afford the payout.

 

Can we leave Katie's looks out of it? I'm uncomfortable with that kind of criticism because a) it's gross, and b) the list of problems with her character is a mile long, and absolutely none of them have to do with her face.

 

If they wanted to write Laurel out or minimize her character, they would have. The problem is that the people who run this show have a complete misunderstanding of what makes this character they've created a bad one, and instead of cutting their losses, they're going all in to make it work. I admire the ballsiness of it in an abstract sense, I just hate that they took the lazy, predictable way out of the jam they wrote themselves into, and I hate that yet another female on this show had to die in order to fuel other people's journeys. It's especially disappointing because Sara had an interesting backstory and I wanted to know more about it, but I think it's pointless to include her in flashbacks now that we know she's dead in real time. It's just more lazy shit, using flashbacks as a way to bring her back without bringing her back.

 

I'm also disappointed that I'm now stuck with more Laurel, who I really just...don't care about. At all. And I'll have difficulty buying her revenge fantasies, because I never really got this deep sisterly bond between the two of them - it was all really superficial, IMO.

[Sakura12]

Sara shouldn't have had a short life expectancy. Why does someone have to die to make someone else a hero? Then there is the fact that Laurel still sucks as a character, killing Sara didn't change that or fix that. Imo, it made it worse. Another character dies so Laurel can have a place on this show. That's not how writing a story works. 

 

Killing Sara does not make a good story arc, because I don't care to see flashbacks of her now, it doesn't matter anymore what happened to her, she's dead. Let's see how much Sara suffered and fought to survive only to die a brutal death anyway. Wow, that's a great story that should be told.

 

Agreed on the revenge story, I never got the impression that Laurel even liked Sara let alone care enough about getting vengeance for her death. Especially with her gleeful smiles since KC found out that CL's leaving the show. I'll just see it as Laurel thinking now that Sara's dead she can put on the outfit and be called the hero. She can pretend she's doing it for Sara but I'll see it as her doing it for herself and the glory it will bring her. Because that is the character personality they have shown me in the past 2 years. 

 

I was slightly open to giving them a chance to make me like Laurel, but that is done now. I'll never accept her and she'll always be a downgrade compared to Sara/CL. Sara was thrown away like garbage for her, that is all I'll ever see. 

Edited October 9, 2014 by Sakura12

[poetgirl925]

I just hate that they took the lazy, predictable way out of the jam they wrote themselves into, and I hate that yet another female on this show had to die in order to fuel other people's journeys. It's especially disappointing because Sara had an interesting backstory and I wanted to know more about it, but I think it's pointless to include her in flashbacks now that we know she's dead in real time. It's just more lazy shit, using flashbacks as a way to bring her back without bringing her back.

 

I'm also disappointed that I'm now stuck with more Laurel, who I really just...don't care about. At all. And I'll have difficulty buying her revenge fantasies, because I never really got this deep sisterly bond between the two of them - it was all really superficial, IMO.

All of this. I suppose the idea is to use the Sara flashbacks to set up the League angle coming this season, and I'm always happy to see Nyssa, but I also don't see the point in wasting a lot of story on Sara's backstory if she's dead. That would have worked a lot better if she were around for at least part of the season. And a BIG yes to the superficiality of the sisterly bond. I still have no idea what made them tick as sisters, and there were a few opportunities for Laurel/Sara moments last season that were utterly wasted on Laurel/Oliver - the biggest one being Laurel going to Oliver to give him support after seeing Sara's scars. So yeah, I do not doubt this sad/vengeful Laurel is going to be a serious stretch because in the end, we all know it'll end up being all about Laurel just the way Tommy was and Sara's first death was.

[statsgirl]

The picture recap was great. Especially the ending of the episode.

 

 

And then they fucked over Sara and killed her so that the fucking mask and jacket could conveniently, literally, fall at her sister's feet. Screw you, writers! Right now, I'm really hating this contrived "development" so fucking much that I can't even revel in whatever enjoyment I felt during most of that episode.

That's it for me too.  I can't remember enjoying anything about the episode because of that ending.

 

And now I am really truly worried for Felicity in season 4. Especially if they finally put her and Oliver together because then for sure they'll kill her for Laurel to have Oliver. Look at Sara, finally happy and now dead.  It' Only About Laurel for them.

 

 

Have to say when I thought about it later that line was absolutely terrible and EBR made it into gold, maybe the writer knew what she'd do with it.

She gets some awful writing (Laurel is not the only one) but EBR makes it work.

 

 

Chekhov's bed!  A bed mentioned at one point must surely be used at a later point.  And you know that houseplant will be used as a symbol of hope - it will get more longing looks than the salmon ladder.

LOL.  I hope so, but then there is that sword of Damocles... I mean Laurel hanging over her head.

 

 

And I hope they explain Verdant. I'm guessing maybe Oliver still owns it but doesn't have the cash to get the club going again, since that would at least provide him with an income.

It was a successful nightclub before.  I should think it would be easier to get backing for that then for QC.

[shadow2008]

Well, I guess that's it for me and Arrow, officially. After the fridging of Moira and Shado, the destruction of Slade Wilson and Sara's senseless return to the League of Assassins, I already had more than 1 foot out the door but there was enough in the spoilers (Thea/Malcolm, Hong Kong storyline, Katanna, Ra's Al Ghul) that made me want to give this new season a shot. Heck, I was even kind of looking forward to the upcoming Laurel/Ted storyline and wanting to see where the writers were going to take her character, but now? I officially don't give a sht anymore. It's one thing to kill off a beloved character in a dignified manner, but it's a whole other thing to get rid of them like something the cat dragged in and that's exactly what they did with Sara. At least when Tommy and Moira died, their deaths were presented as huge emotional moments and both characters went out sacrificing themselves for the good of other people, but Sara's death happened in such an abrupt, senseless and cold manner that I didn't even shed a tear for her and she was my favourite character. Honestly, I know the writers would never admit this, but I have long suspected that Sara was never a character to them. I think from the moment of her inception, they viewed her as nothing more but a handy plot device that they could randomly insert into any storyline they wanted (and they did with no regard to her previous characterization) and the way in which they ultimately wrote her off confirms that belief for me.

Edited October 9, 2014 by shadow2008

[slayer2]

 

Sara shouldn't have had a short life expectancy.

I disagree. As much as I like Sara (and I did and I do) her being there means that the two female leads of the show can't play their pre-ordained roles as season 2 had her filling both of them. They hired KC as the Black Canary and EBR as the love interest, that was their plan, that has always been their plan, season 3 episode 1 set that plan in motion It's not big shock. It was always going to go in this direction and the writers and producers and even actors always hinted at it. Then again I'm not a shipper, aside from (Huntress and Ollie) so you could pretty much kill anybody off on this show (save Ollie) and I'd still watch including Felicity and Laurel.

 

Although I do think that Sara is the character that makes the most sense in terms of forwarding the plot and not upsetting the balance of characters. As a lawyer Laurel's connection to the law is a valuable asset as is her relationship with her father and her former mentorship relationship with Thea (when she returns) and Tommy's  (and Thea's) father and her future Black Canary status. Felicity technical skills as well as her potential romance with Oliver and soon to be budding relationship with Brandon Routh's character (spec) Diggle's army/navy (?) training and unfailingly loyalty to Oliver are integral as is his likelihood to have the calmest head of the bunch and the added testosterone. Roy could regain his superpowers at any moment, plus he's a martial artisit with parkour skills and his connection to Thea will be valuable to mine when she returns.

 

All of these people will be directly or indirectly affected by Sara's death so it stands to reason that they'd kill her off. IMO they should have spread it out over a few episodes and dropped some quality anvils. Not sure why her death was so harsh and staggered and why they didn't give the last scene a few more minutes but who knows. I'm sure it'll all be revealed in time. I just hope they slow down the pacing for future episodes,.

 

 

t's one thing to kill off a beloved character in a dignified manner, but it's a whole other thing to get rid of them like something the cat dragged in and that's exactly what they did with Sara. At least when Tommy and Moira died, their deaths were presented as huge emotional moments and both characters went out sacrificing themselves for the good of other people, but Sara's death happened in such an abrupt, senseless and cold manner that I didn't even shed a tear for her and she was my favourite character.

 

This is a wonderful point. Many warriors would describe Tommy and especially Moira's deaths as "a good death". Moira even got a warrior's death, I mean if you gotta go then dying defending the life of another really is the way to do it. I don't know what the writers were smoking with this Sara add-on. It seems like maybe they randomly decided it at the last second when they were writing the episode or maybe it was based on availability or something. Who knows but yeah, they really effed this one up as far as I can see.

Edited October 9, 2014 by slayer2

[writersblock51]

 

Whoever directed (and edited) this episode has some 'splainin' to do IMO.

I believe the director was the same one who did the season premieres for Seasons 1 and 2 - last name Nutter?

 

I thought the timing was off in parts, too. Almost like some scenes were put in out of sequence.  And I completely lost track of how the day/night timing worked.  But that could be due to a lot taking place in the lair.

 

After seeing how light, literally, the sets and scenery are on "the Flash" and even "Gotham," it took a bit of adjusting to get used to the darker world of "Arrow."    Not as much of a fan of it was I was. "Gotham" is a dark & dirty city but I can see everything that's happening.  I miss some of the details and Easter eggs on Arrow simply because of the dim lighting.

 

In terms of the manner in which Sara died, I don't think it was an accident that it was very similiar in nature to how the count died last season - the 3 arrows, the fall back, landing on something that was NOT the ground. Sara definitely deserved far, far better.

 

 

They hired KC as the Black Canary and EBR as the love interest, that was their plan, that has always been their plan,

 

I'm not entirely convinced this was the case. Are you talking about heading into Season 1, 2 or 3?  Because EBR was never 'the plan' for being Oliver's love interest until she'd been on the show for some time.  Heading into S2, I think she was 'the plan' for that role.

 

As for KC as Black Canary. Actually, she was cast as Dinah Laurel Lance.   The assumption had been that she'd be Black Canary and there were even comments from the EPs to that affect. But even as recently as last week, the comments were still rather obstuse.  There was every indication that she was on a hero's journey, spurred on my events, but who she evolved into wasn't given a name.

 

So I think I was ok coming into the season premiere, thinking that Sara was still very much alive for many episodes to come.  I knew from at least 1 interview this summer that there'd be LoA flashbacks to help establish Ra's in the current day.  Fine.  So her death last night seemed sudden, undeserved and disrespectful in the manner in which she died.

 

Did I think she'd reach senior citizen age in the future? No, because of her job and associations, she was going to be at risk for a long time. But I thought there was more story to tell on the show.

 

And I don't need her story to be absorbed by Laurel, either.  This is Oliver's show.

Edited October 9, 2014 by writersblock51

[Sakura12]

I disagree. As much as I like Sara (and I did and I do) her being there means that the two female leads of the show can't play their pre-ordained roles as season 2 had her filling both of them. They hired KC as the Black Canary and EBR as the love interest, that was their plan, that has always been their plan

 

EBR was not hired as a love interest she was hired as an Easter Egg. So, no. That was not their the plan from the beginning. The plan changed when EBR became a fan favorite character and KC's chemistry was SA was non-existent. She was pushed aside as female lead with Felicity and in season 2 by Sara. Sara dying does not help Laurel at all. They should've have focused on making Laurel a character before throwing Sara in the dumpster. 

Edited October 9, 2014 by Sakura12

[thuganomics85]

 

I believe the director was the same one who did the season premieres for Seasons 1 and 2 - last name Nutter?

The director for this episode was actually Glen Winter.  He did "The Promise", and a few other Arrow episodes.  David Nutter did do Arrow's pilot, as well as The Flash's pilot as well.  I do agree that this wasn't their best directed episode.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I disagree. As much as I like Sara (and I did and I do) her being there means that the two female leads of the show can't play their pre-ordained roles as season 2 had her filling both of them. They hired KC as the Black Canary and EBR as the love interest, that was their plan, that has always been their plan, season 3 episode 1 set that plan in motion It's not big shock. It was always going to go in this direction and the writers and producers and even actors always hinted at it.

 

Actually, that was never the plan for EBR and there was an interview linked just today over in the News and Media thread where Guggenheim states:

 

But no, we never had a plan or a trajectory. There was never even a plan when we introduced Felicity for her to be more than a one-off character, and then we just really loved what Emily was doing – and we enjoyed writing for Felicity.

 

 

Laurel was supposed to be the love interest, but IMO that utterly failed and at this point, they have switched that focus to Felicity. 

 

With respect to them hiring KC as Black Canary, I would say that they hired KC as Laurel Lance.  Even if she was hired to specifically become Black Canary, well see above in my post for how plans change.

 

I did like Felicity's line about dangling maybes in front of her because it's a really shitty thing to do to someone: give them hope and then take it all away.  I know it wasn't intentional on Oliver's part, but that doesn't make it hurt any less.

[slayer2]

 

I'm not entirely convinced this was the case. Are you talking about heading into Season 1, 2 or 3?  Because EBR was never 'the plan' for being Oliver's love interest until she'd been on the show for some time.  Heading into S2, I think she was 'the plan' for that role

I mean end of season 1 and into season 2, once they started dropping hints that she had a crush on him and that he sort of returned the feelings for me the parallels were far too close to Chloe and Oliver's relationship on Smallville so I was rather expecting it from watching that trajectory.

 

 

They wanted to set up a mystery about who killed Sara. But no one gives a damn because they're too busy reeling from that slap in the face and resenting Laurel to even care who killed her.

People would resent Laurel anyways so in that sense it doesn't matter.

Edited October 9, 2014 by slayer2

[wonderwall]

People would resent Laurel anyways so in that sense it doesn't matter.

Eh, I feel like the people who were indifferent about her will now come to resent her. Which means more people don't like Laurel which isn't good for the show's supposed female lead. 

[slayer2]

Eh, I feel like the people who were indifferent about her will now come to resent her. Which means more people don't like Laurel which isn't good for the show's supposed female lead. 

I strongly doubt this. The people who were indifferent to Laurel aren't necessarily Sara fans, or if they are they aren't necessarily die-hards and there are still even people who like both characters (Hi!) I think what people forget is there are a lot of different targets for this show and much like me there are a lot of people out there who will watch it whether Sara dies or Laurel dies or Felicity dies or not because they just like the show.Some people even still just want to see the canon characters and Laurel become BC like she is in canon.  Lots of people dislike Laurel....true. But honestly some people (like myself) could care less one way or the other about all the shipper stuff and the anti- pro- character stuff and just like watching the show for the action and to watch Oliver Queen. I think this episode moving as quickly as it did it planted a lot of seeds for future episodes and the season arc especially with the death of Sara and as maddening and seemingly thoughtless as their execution was I'm interested to see where it leads.

Edited October 9, 2014 by slayer2

[formerlyfreedom]

Folks, if you want to continue an extended conversation on what the plan was in Seasons 1 & 2, let's take it over to the The Bitterness Thread. This is the spot for episode specific discussion. Don't make us break out the delete button, please.

[writersblock51]

 

The director for this episode was actually Glen Winter.  He did "The Promise", and a few other Arrow episodes.  David Nutter did do Arrow's pilot, as well as The Flash's pilot as well.

Thanks, @thuganomics85 !

[Mars477]

So, does Sara get secretly resurrected by a top secret government nanotechnology program, to return and beat the shit out of Team Arrow a few times as an OMAC cyborg before regaining her free will and rebelling against Brother Eye?

This is bullshit. Betwee Sara getting fridged, Olicity nonsense and Laurel on track to become Black Canary, and CW being CW I think I'm out.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Mars477

[statsgirl]

Thank goodness for re-watch on the internet.  It's true, when Diggle says "As soon as I laid eyes on her, my whole world changed", Oliver is looking at Felicity. n At least Olicity got that.  Also, a few nice directing touches, the close-up of Felicity crying as Oliver tells Diggle he's benching him because she sees she's going to get the speech next, Felicity slipping out of Oliver's hands in their last scene as he's left  holding nothing.

 

Now that they've got the Olicity romance brewing and Laurel training soon, the role of love interest has been taken by Felicity and the role of Black Canary is being filled by Laurel which is technically how it should have been all along. Canary was a detour on the inevitable path the show was taking.

Laurel was supposed to be both Black Canary and Oliver's love interest. The love interest was what was in the p.r. stuff when the pilot came out, the Black Canary was assumed by those who read the comics.  Unfortunately, the show just lucked in to two other women who filled the two roles better.

 

And this is why Sara's death has ruined more than just Sara for me.  (Really, I don't give a flying fig about Sara flashbacks, she's dead!)

  If they are willing to kill Sara so that Laurel can have the jacket and mask fall at her feet and can ascend to the role of Black Canary, they're just as likely to kill Felicity once she and Oliver get together. He's get more manpain for half a season and then Laurel gets her guy after that.

 

It wasn't just Sara that took a blow this episode to prop Laurel.  Olicity did too.

[catrox14]

As a lawyer Laurel's connection to the law is a valuable asset as is her relationship with her father and her former mentorship relationship with Thea (when she returns) and Tommy's (and Thea's) father and her future Black Canary status

 

That would make sense if Laurel was a decent lawyer. But she sucked, got fired and blackmailed her way back into her job. NOT quite good doer or connected.

Edited October 9, 2014 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

Damn it, Felicity. If you're buying a bed, at least go for a Full. Think ahead, girl. Think ahead.

 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Loved Felicity's use of "frak" at QC.  I've used that one many a time.  Thanks, Battlestar Galactica. 

Edited October 9, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[Actionmage]

After reading how many felt empty, even after enjoying the previous hour-nitpicks and all, I realized how to describe that emptiness. I hope.

 

There is a barrel, the kind with metal hoops to keep the wood slats together. We'll call that The Episode.

The Arrow folks put in scenes and we put in our reactions to those scenes. Both sides contributed and everyone was getting along.

Then, as the last scenes were shown, someone cut the bottom out of that barrel and everything- good, bad, indifferent- fell away.

Nothing was left in the barrel.

That's why we feel empty. 

 

Orion? Thank you for the link; indeed, the laugh was needed and appreciated. "pls  luv me" *G*

 

eta:nevermind

Edited October 9, 2014 by Actionmage

[TanyaKay]

Damn it, Felicity. If you're buying a bed, at least go for a Full. Think ahead, girl. Think ahead.

This is NOT a bed, this is a gurney they stole from the sets of Grey's Anatomy. Complete with white hospital pillowcase and grey hospital blanket. Felicity would never buy anything this drab & colourless.

[apinknightmare]

This is NOT a bed, this is a gurney they stole from the sets of Grey's Anatomy. Complete with white hospital pillowcase and grey hospital blanket. Felicity would never buy anything this drab & colourless.

 

It's all she could afford on her Buy More salary! And, I'm sorry...After last night's ep, Oliver deserves to sleep on something with poor lumbar support.

[KenyaJ]

I feel satisfied with it, but I didn't really think it was all that raw? I was expecting declarations, of which there were none. I was expecting Oliver to flat-out tell her he loved her, which he only did by refusing to say that he didn't. I was expecting a conversation about what they mean to each other, but that didn't really happen either.

 

Guggenheim's comments about next week's episode make it sound like

the conversation next week will be more raw and declaration-y

.  Whether he's overstating it remains to be seen.

Edited October 9, 2014 by KenyaJ

[statsgirl]

When does Guggenheim not over-state things?  The only emotions that get dealt with on this show are Oliver's manpain and Laurel's sense of betrayal.  That Oliver/Felicity "raw"talk was wildly over-sold.

Edited October 9, 2014 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

Guggenheim's comments about next week's episode make it sound like

the conversation next week will be more raw and declaration-y

.  Whether he's overstating it remains to be seen.

 

Do you happen to have a link?

 

And I agree with @statsgirl - with regards to the "raw" conversation or whatever that was alluded to in this particular ep, way oversold.

[KenyaJ]

Do you happen to have a link?

 

Sure. (Warning: spoilers) There are a couple of others I read last night. If I can dig them up again, I'll try to add them to this post later.

[Shanna]

Have I mentioned how much I adored Felicity this episode? Cripes I loved her.

I always adore her but she was great this episode. I always get a kick out of her outfits but she seemed particularly overdressed this episode although I thought it was cute she wore red and pink all episode except for her brief stint at the buy more.

[Moviesnob]

Can we talk about how the episode felt, style-wise? The camera angles/movement, music cues, effects - it all felt flashier and a bit bigger. I'm guessing their popularity is showing in their budget.

[Kymmi]

The one thing I find hilarious is that no matter how hard Katie Cassidy tries with her scenes with Stephen Amell, you can tell he couldn't care less about her. In all the Laurel/Oliver scenes, he makes it seems like she's just an acquaintance. While KC tries her lovey dovey eyes at her, SA just blinks at her. It's hilarious. Stephen seems really over Laurel in general and I'm not too sure how he feels about Katie. He tried this whole Laurel/Oliver thing back in season 1, but now it's clear that he's given up on her in general and I think he'll be a secret protestor for this Laurel as BC BS. 

 

After listening to SA's interview in the Girl on Guy podcast I don't think it has anything to do with how he feels about KC - I just think they have negative chemistry.  SA mentions that he's seen shows where it's obvious that actors dislike each other, and it ends up showing up in their acting.  I don't think he'd let that happen.  I think he's just playing a non-romantic vibe with her.

 

 

I really thought they'd wait longer than the premiere to kill Sara off, I really did. I really hoped that the writers actually were getting a clue on how popular Sara is, but either they don't care and they're just doing this to further their own agenda, or they're really not smart. Do they even realize that Sara's death isn't fully what the fans are upset about, but the fact that it's a clear path for Laurel to become Black Canary? And as long as it's not a path to Laurel/Oliver again, which I don't think it is (plus, I'm pretty sure SA will be extremely unhappy and we might get less media coverage from him), then I'll be less infuriated.

 

I'm really, really, REALLY pissed that they chose that moment to kill Sara off.  It ruined what could have been a good episode for me.  Like others have mentioned, if they were hell bent on killing her off, they should have done it during "Unthinkable" and had it be for something other than a mystery to kick off season 3.  As someone that disliked Laurel but was trying to give her a chance, I've gone full dark on her.  I will always blame that character and her need to be Fluke Canary with Sara's death.  She's dead to me.  I don't care to watch her grieve, and if they put her in more Team Arrow scenes it will ruin those for me as well.  

 

Bitterness.  I haz it.

[Artesia]

Sure. (Warning: spoilers) There are a couple of others I read last night. If I can dig them up again, I'll try to add them to this post later.

Gah. I read this link and stumbled upon this part:

 

If you thought things would be tense between Laurel and Oliver in the aftermath of Sara's death, you'd be wrong. "Sara's death probably pulls them closer together than further apart," Guggenheim said. "That's not to say there aren't some significant moments of conflict between them also. That's one of the reasons why we killed Sara off — the amount of richness that we get out of it [is priceless]."

Just... What the actual... I don't know, I think I'm done with this show. Sara was probably my favourite character. I disliked when they killed Shado, just to further "Oliver's journey", but Caity Lotz gave Sara both vulnerability, strength, and tenderness. Her acting really endeared me to her character, I would even be all right if she and Oliver wouldn't have been endgame couple, but I really wanted her alive and well. But now this. Murdered and thrown away like trash - and Guggenheim openly talking about bringing Laurel and Ollie closer and stating "the amount of richness that we get out of it [is priceless]" - I just can't. 

[ostentatious]

I honestly think that people would be less *disgusted* if they'd done it a different way, i.e. not splatted her on the ground in the trash. It felt ugly.

[SonofaBiscuit]

The Calm.  What a perfectly not-accurate-at-all name for this episode because I'm awfully ragey.

[Orion]

I always adore her but she was great this episode. I always get a kick out of her outfits but she seemed particularly overdressed this episode although I thought it was cute she wore red and pink all episode except for her brief stint at the buy more.

 

I was sad she lost her shoes in the explosion and I hope Oliver remembered to grab them when he took the time to go grab his Arrow Bag. 

 

The Buy More outfit was hysterical. On the back of her shirt it said "touch the tech" I turned to my husband and said okay that's actually the perfect place for Felicity to work because she always wanted to touch tech. His response was no it's because this year Oliver, Barry and Ray all want to touch the tech. Her.

[bravelittletoaster]

Not sure why her death was so harsh and staggered and why they didn't give the last scene a few more minutes but who knows.

 

Because they wanted her fans to understand precisely how few fucks they give.

 

I think this certainly isn't the last we've seen of CL though as the producers said they were trying to line her up for more than a few episodes and were mentioning her availability, so whether flashbacks or whatnot I'm confident in that.

 

Oh, well, bully for us.  Flashbacks for a dead character.  How meaningful and gripping that will be.  

Edited October 9, 2014 by bravelittletoaster