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Ratings And Scheduling: I Can't Do This Alone

kimrey

By kimrey
in Supernatural

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

9 hours ago, SueB said:

Not necessarily good for their careers but a recognition of their work (on the occasion of their 250th episode) by the studio head is nice.  Dude apparently came out to their trailer at MIDNIGHT because they were working.  That's a nice gesture from someone who is a mover and shaker in Hollywood. 

Although, it can't be damaging to their careers to have the head of a studio think so highly of them. Could be helpful getting a job in the future?

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Casseiopeia
Casseiopeia

Right!!!    We won't complain if suddenly Dean's hair looks different...I mean continuity hasn't been all that important for years.

catrox14
catrox14

I don't think it was a mistake to do the possession. The mistake IMO was ending it too soon for Dean and not showing Sam, Cas, Jack, and Mary pulling out ALL the stops to save Dean.  The show vs the t

ahrtee
ahrtee

I wouldn't like to be the one cutting Jensen's hair.  I'd be crying too hard.😊

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Okay, I'm starting to get a little worried. The Foundry wasn't as strong of an episode as I was hoping for. I still think they're decent ratings for a show in it's 12th season and on the CW, but I think they're going to need to ramp it up in the next couple episodes to get people to stick with them. 

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catrox14

catrox14

On 10/25/2016 at 6:28 AM, auntvi said:

Stupid question: is it a big deal that J2 were invited to dinner with Roth? Like good for their careers?

I think Roth likes them both very much and wants to retain them on the WB payroll of actors even if SPN were to be cancelled.  Or it was dinner to tell Jensen why he can't go and film Deadpool 2 (I'm kidding LOL)

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

25 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I look at that and think Grey's Anatomy is still on? And people are still watching that show?

Heh, I'm sure that's what Grey's Anatomy fans say about Supernatural. They are exactly the same age, are they not? ;)

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Isn`t Grey`s one year older? I know Bones and Criminal Minds started the same year SPN did and they are still running, though Bones is close to its end. And of course NCIS is older than everything else but the Simpsons at this point.  

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catrox14

catrox14

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Isn`t Grey`s one year older? I know Bones and Criminal Minds started the same year SPN did and they are still running, though Bones is close to its end. And of course NCIS is older than everything else but the Simpsons at this point.  

What about Law and Order SVU?

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Isn`t Grey`s one year older? I know Bones and Criminal Minds started the same year SPN did and they are still running, though Bones is close to its end. And of course NCIS is older than everything else but the Simpsons at this point.  

I'm pretty sure Grey's started the same year. I remember reading about how Jefferey Dean Morgan was on both shows at the same time for their first year. 

So does this mean that Supernatural must outlast Bones, Criminal Minds and Grey's Anatomy. I mean, wouldn't that be kinda the ultimate underdog wins scenario? ;)

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rue721

rue721

Ouch. Why are the ratings so low, do you think?

I don't think that SPN is in a lot of danger of cancellation, because it has gone to the Friday night pit of doom and managed to claw its way back once before. In general, Supernatural seems to do the best when it's on the ropes.

But I don't understand why people aren't watching. Did they not like the season finale last year? Is it that there's no Big Bad? It's unfortunate, because I think the show is stronger now than it's been in ages...?!

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catrox14

catrox14

4 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Ouch. Why are the ratings so low, do you think?

I don't think that SPN is in a lot of danger of cancellation, because it has gone to the Friday night pit of doom and managed to claw its way back once before. In general, Supernatural seems to do the best when it's on the ropes.

But I don't understand why people aren't watching. Did they not like the season finale last year? Is it that there's no Big Bad? It's unfortunate, because I think the show is stronger now than it's been in ages...?!

I think the finale along with the runup to the finale weren't entirely revered. Some viewers loved it, some were frustrated and didn't particularly like Mary being back. I think some may be waiting to watch on DVR or the app the next day.  I'll be more alarmed if the ratings stay around 0.6 once NFL is over. NBA might be a factor but not as much as the NFL.

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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

(edited)
9 hours ago, rue721 said:

Ouch. Why are the ratings so low, do you think?

I don't think that SPN is in a lot of danger of cancellation, because it has gone to the Friday night pit of doom and managed to claw its way back once before. In general, Supernatural seems to do the best when it's on the ropes.

But I don't understand why people aren't watching. Did they not like the season finale last year? Is it that there's no Big Bad? It's unfortunate, because I think the show is stronger now than it's been in ages...?!

Ratings for all the CW shows are down - I imagine Supergirl may not have stopped falling yet either. It's a show that has been on for 12 years, which means it's probably already had a lot of the bump from syndication and Netflix reruns, and is in the meantime losing both some of the longtime fans and some of the newer fans who were most vocal on places like social media, Twitter, tumblr, etc. (both a blessing and a curse as many of these fans were never really watching the show that Supernatural actually was). The last few seasons were very controversial, losing I'd imagine some who were disappointed over Kevin, over the demon Dean story or the MoC story, upset about Sam stories, the usual debate about female characters (complete with grisly death of a prominent female recurring character that was, rightly or wrongly, pushed as an example of a changing Supernatural regarding female characters), the fans who finally realized Cas was going to be treated as a supporting character the show isn't sure what to do with (as it has been since season 5, really), the fans who are unhappy about whatever with Crowley, or just fans who have grown out of the show. There's a whole new world out there for genre shows, both bad and good (although truthfully none of them are ever worth the hype - remember how Sleepy Hollow was going to show the world that it was everything SPN had never been and would never be? ...Oops)

Thursday also isn't the best timeslot for SPN and I don't think LoT is all that lead-in friendly the way Arrow was (although SPN and LoT are basically similar in ratings this season so maybe I'm wrong). 

I have to admit I pop in and out myself as I got tired of it sometime a few years ago (I think it was around the murdered priests episode). I missed some episodes and sort of got out of watching. I've watched some since and I do think things have improved, but I'm probably not going to be as impassioned as I was some years back.

It's a credit to the show that it's doing as well as it is this late in the day, especially looking at the CW lineup as a whole this year. 

Edited by Pete Martell
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)
11 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I'm pretty sure Grey's started the same year. I remember reading about how Jefferey Dean Morgan was on both shows at the same time for their first year. 

Google tells me it premiered in March 2005 but it also just now started Season 13. I knew it was one Season ahead. With the way Pilots are shot way in advance, that might still work out for JDM and the shooting schedule, though. 

Quote

I don't think LoT is all that lead-in friendly the way Arrow was (although SPN and LoT are basically similar in ratings this season so maybe I'm wrong). 

SPN has never been particularly lead-in-dependent so I don`t think it matters too much. But, as you said, LOT is comparatively better off this year while the other DC shows go fractional. Which I`m happy about for LOT, it is a delight so far this Season.

Edited by Aeryn13
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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

SPN has never been particularly lead-in-dependent so I don`t think it matters too much. But, as you said, LOT is comparatively better off this year while the other DC shows go fractional. Which I`m happy about for LOT, it is a delight so far this Season.

I keep meaning to watch it more as I really like the cast (especially Arthur Darvill), so I hope it does well. 

You're right about SPN. I tend to think Arrow is the show it did best with, but Arrow has dipped this season, so maybe that wouldn't be true now.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)
13 hours ago, rue721 said:

Ouch. Why are the ratings so low, do you think?

I don't think that SPN is in a lot of danger of cancellation, because it has gone to the Friday night pit of doom and managed to claw its way back once before. In general, Supernatural seems to do the best when it's on the ropes.

But I don't understand why people aren't watching. Did they not like the season finale last year? Is it that there's no Big Bad? It's unfortunate, because I think the show is stronger now than it's been in ages...?!

Well, it's an aging show a tough night. I'm still hoping those numbers will rise a tad, but the episode wasn't as strong as I hoped, so I'm not sure it will. I wasn't worried last week because the first couple episodes are generally set up for the season and the set up for the season isn't all that flashy this year. 

I do agree with you, the show is much stronger than it has been in years right now, but it's also not very flashy. Personally, I like the less flash, but I don't think that's representative of the audience as a whole. 

Edited by DittyDotDot
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rue721

rue721

I guess the good news is that it seems like the ratings have been holding steady from week to week within the season. And SPN doesn't lose much (or any) of LoT's lead-in. So I don't think that it's that people aren't liking S12 so far. I'm thinking the problem must be that people didn't like the end of S11, or that Thursday is a bad night for some reason?

Personally, I think that backing off on the flashiness is actually a good thing for SPN. There are already very flashy and bright superhero shows all over the CW, and SPN is just never going to beat the Flash or Supergirl or even Legends of Tomorrow at its own game. To succeed, Supernatural needs to be true to itself instead of making itself into a pale imitation of other shows, imo.

Also, I think people like more "grounded" superhero shows, too. I mean, Luke Cage did great on Netflix, afaik. In general, I think that Supernatural fits better with the Netflix superhero shows than it does with CW's...except that imo, SPN would still need to grow up a little more to actually be in the same vein as Luke Cage/Daredevil/Jessica Jones/etc.

I think it's OK if it doesn't "grow up," I'm not even sure I want it to. Just saying that it's part of a spectrum of how grounded or adult fantasy/superhero show are, and imo it's actually kind of in the middle of that spectrum, rather than it being either especially flashy or especially grounded, or either especially goofy or especially adult.

Personally, if it is going to change tone in any direction, I hope that it's in the direction of being more grounded and adult than in the direction of being flashier and goofier. To me, that seems more appealing -- and it also seems truer to Supernatural itself, and less likely to pit it fruitlessly against the other shows on its own network. But YMMV, of course.

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Wynne88

Wynne88

I think a lot of people are just watching on DVRs when it's more convenient, or after their preferred show in that timeslot is over.  I wish we could get the live+3 or live+7 numbers for these last two episodes.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

22 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I guess the good news is that it seems like the ratings have been holding steady from week to week within the season. And SPN doesn't lose much (or any) of LoT's lead-in. So I don't think that it's that people aren't liking S12 so far. I'm thinking the problem must be that people didn't like the end of S11, or that Thursday is a bad night for some reason?

Personally, I think that backing off on the flashiness is actually a good thing for SPN. There are already very flashy and bright superhero shows all over the CW, and SPN is just never going to beat the Flash or Supergirl or even Legends of Tomorrow at its own game. To succeed, Supernatural needs to be true to itself instead of making itself into a pale imitation of other shows, imo.

When I say the show isn't all that flashy right now, I mean it's not something that on first glance appears new and exciting and is giving someone a reason to tune in live instead of watching something else that seems new and exciting. What they're currently doing with the show is fine by me, but what they're not doing isn't getting people's attention with it. However, I expect the same number of people are watching the show, just not live. They're recording it and watching later. That's why I say I expect the number to rise a tad. 

Personally, I'm fine with the ratings they're getting, but it does worry me if the trend continues the network won't be fine with them. I don't really care if the show ever pulls huge numbers, that's pretty unrealistic, IMO, but I'd like the numbers to rise just enough to make sure it keeps the network suits from meddling with the show.

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rue721

rue721

(edited)
20 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't really care if the show ever pulls huge numbers, that's pretty unrealistic, IMO, but I'd like the numbers to rise just enough to make sure it keeps the network suits from meddling with the show.

I care about network meddling, too. Also, I prefer when shows that are made with more care and skill get higher ratings, because it encourages the network to allow the show to keep moving in (imo) the right direction, and encourages the suits to move the network as a whole in (imo) the right direction.

As an example of what I'm nervous about for SPN (rather than outright cancellation):  I thought the first couple seasons of The Originals were very well done, but TO never really got the high ratings to go along with (imo) its high quality, and as a result the show kind of lost its spark last season -- and then lost its audience. Now it's down to doing a half season on Friday nights, I think?

I feel like SPN is working its way back to finding its spark again, and I don't want low ratings to endanger that. I'm also just curious about why its ratings continue to fall. It's an old workhorse of a show, but that's been the case for like 8 years now ;)

I do think that the issue of live v. DVR/streaming ratings is important. But I doubt that more people are watching DVR/streaming now than they were a year or two ago? Unless the Thursday slot is the problem, which might be the case. I thought Thursdays were a plum spot, but maybe they aren't, or maybe SPN just doesn't do well in plum spots anyway?

Imo the issue isn't about the writing or story choices for the last few episodes/S12, because the ratings haven't been falling week to week, as far as I know, and it isn't losing its lead-in. Despite its lead-in coming from a show that imo is mismatched with SPN, and which isn't doing that well itself.

(BTW, I actually really liked LoT when it first started, but as soon as ~a certain character~ left, I was out, too. I wasn't watching for that character or anything, but him/her being gone just changed the show's chemistry in a way that left me uninterested in watching more. Of course, I don't like or watch Dr Who either, which LoT is clearly influenced by, so maybe that's just me and the show not really being right for me in any case. YMMV).

Edited by rue721
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I don`t think the show is in much danger of network interference, not this late in the game. It isn`t part of a larger universe so the network won`t eye crossover potential. And the fact that there is no big ongoing romance plot hasn`t dented viewership just as the slight attempts to bring in romance have never led to overwhelming response either. It`s not insanely serialized as to be inaccessible. So, I don`t know which pointers they would even give them. To do more big apocalyptic stuff? I think in that case the producers would just wave Lucifer in front of them and promise to do cool shit with him, althewhile not planning to do anything than they already have.

Story-wise, I think the show so far is incredibly meh this year but I don`t think that necessarily impacts rhe ratings. The ratings always seemed largely unimpacted by dips in quality. The show just slipped roughly the same as the other shows across the network overall have slipped.

If anything it is perhaps because the CW lost some afifliates in key markets and had to switch to lesser-viewed providers? That and the continuous decline of live viewing IMO explains the difference. If not for the affiliates maybe all the shows would have only lost 5-10 % or so year to year but now they lost 15-20ish % so it looks more noticeable.    

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

34 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I do think that the issue of live v. DVR/streaming ratings is important. But I doubt that more people are watching DVR/streaming now than they were a year or two ago? Unless the Thursday slot is the problem, which might be the case. I thought Thursdays were a plum spot, but maybe they aren't, or maybe SPN just doesn't do well in plum spots anyway?

Well, it did survive the "Friday night kiss of death" and still keeps on chugging. TBH, I don't think the time slot really matters all that much for this show. People follow it wherever it goes, it's just that since they don't pull the large numbers other networks do, a small dip seems much more noticeable, IMO. 

I'm also not sure how much the lead in matters anymore either. I don't think people watch TV like they did even a few years ago. I'm sure they do get some people who would just leave the TV on the same network and watch it all night, but I'm not sure the larger viewing audience does that. I don't know, I think there's lots of factors here and I don't think the dip between the premiere and these following two episodes is really as bad as it appears. 

40 minutes ago, rue721 said:

(BTW, I actually really liked LoT when it first started, but as soon as ~a certain character~ left, I was out, too. I wasn't watching for that character or anything, but him/her being gone just changed the show's chemistry in a way that left me uninterested in watching more. Of course, I don't like or watch Dr Who either, which LoT is clearly influenced by, so maybe that's just me and the show not really being right for me in any case. YMMV).

I haven't even finished the first season of Legends of Tomorrow yet, I just can't really get into it. There's nothing wrong with the show, per se, but I don't actually quite buy their universe and I definitely don't feel it. The episodes I liked the most so far are the ones where a couple of them got stuck in one time period and had to learn how to make lives for themselves. I just tend to gravitate towards more simple and human stories, myself. IMO, the show suffers from there being too many "powers" and not enough humans. But, that's my kink, I guess.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I'm not worried about SPN at all, these ratings are really good when you look at the collapse of the DC shows. Right now CW is probably thankful that SPN is so reliable after 12 years. Meanwhile Flash dropped 3 tenths and barely avoiding going fractional. Supergirl has already gone fractional. LoT is holding steady from last year but, still low and it's not only a sophomore show but, only getting short orders (takes longer to reach syndication). Finally we have Arrow which never recovered from the dip in ratings late last season.

If i was the CW, I'd be more worried about those 4 than SPN which is an older show that is holding its own compared to the "big" 4

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

1 hour ago, auntvi said:

I wonder if the loss of WGN stations is having more of an effect than expected.

Highly doubtful. LoT is pulling exactly the same numbers as it did last season. SPN premiered to a 0.8 which was only down 1 tenth from it's S11 premiere. The same can be said for Flash which premiered to 1.2, down a tenth. 

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Diane

Diane

http://tvline.com/2016/11/16/the-100-season-4-premiere-date/

The CW has released its midseason slate, which includes the return of The 100 and Reign, the premiere of Riverdale and a new night for Legends of Tomorrow.

RELATEDThe Vampire Diaries Series Finale to Air March 2017 on The CW

With No Tomorrow airing its freshman finale on Jan. 17, Legends of Tomorrow will move to the Tuesdays-at-9 time slot starting Jan. 24.

An edgy take on Archie and the gang, the Greg Berlanti-produced Riverdale arrives Thursday, Jan. 26 at 9/8c, pushing Supernatural up to the 8 o’clock leadoff spot.

The 100 launches Season 4 on Wednesday, Feb. 1 at 9 pm — the week after Frequency wraps its freshman run.

RELATED2017 Renewal Scorecard: What’s Coming Back? What’s Getting Cancelled? What’s on the Bubble?

Reign returns on Friday, Feb. 10 at 9 pm, the week after Crazy Ex-Girlfriend airs its sophomore finale, while iZombie won’t sink its teeth into Season 3 until Tuesday, April 4 (returning with back-to-back episodes before settling into its usual 9 o’clock slot).

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catrox14

catrox14

This is a strange decision to move a show with the content of SPN to 8pm.. As much as I don't like the torture porn penchant, I do appreciate that the show is pretty hardcore, relatively adult for the CW, with graphic violence and gore.  I sure hope this doesn't mean the network gets involved with more censorship or the show becomes something comic-booky. 

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catrox14

catrox14

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't get the Riverdale Pairing but, it can't be any worse than Flash/No Tomorrow or Supergirl and Jane The Virgin

The pairing with Riverdale is odd if Riverdale is just a teen soap like Dawson's Creek, but it sounds like it might be little mysterious.  For me the problem is putting SPN at the 8PM/7PM CT time slot no matter what it's paired with. This is not a show for children at all. No matter what. The comic book shows with their cartoonish violence can air at 8/7CT without much complaints about standards and practices.  This just makes no sense at all, for the show, as it is written and produced now, to air at 8PM, unless the network/show doesn't care  about paying fines for violating standards of that time slot. Or they neuter the content.  I'm not even sure Dean could get away with calling someone a "bitch" or a "dick" in the 8PM time slot.

I am just befuddled by this decision.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

For me the problem is putting SPN at the 8PM/7PM CT time slot no matter what it's paired with. This is not a show for children at all. 

I don`t know, Vampire Diaries has always been in the 8 p.m. slot, hasn`t it? And they have had a LOT of violence from the start. Yes, lots of romancy parts, too, but I think overall they had more torture porn than even SPN. Or gruesome deaths. And Damon certainly has called people names. If he can say "evil vampire slut" in an 8 p.m. show, (and I`m sure "bitch" or "dick" were often among his repertoire as well), I think SPN will be okay.

They haven`t tried an actual horror vibe in years which I think was the reason for the 9 p.m. slot. The show is a lot more goofy and soapy nowadays. I don`t think the content will be affected all that much. 

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