S01.E01: Pilot

[90PercentGravity]

My only issue so far is w/previously TV and the shows writers. Really w/the pearl necklace? I had to ask my son what you meant in the article, and why twitter had commented on that as well. And all I can say is, eww! Was that really necessary? I have managed to live my life just fine w/out that info. Dammit. And now I've been forced to have, what my son can only describe as "horrific" convo w/his traumatized mom. And I'm left to contemplate why in the hell he knew this!

If that offended you, I guess it is a good thing they didn't take Mrs. Wayne's two girls and one cup.

[blackwing]

And I'd like to know what the showrunner was smoking when he said the kid they got to play Bruce was the bestest, most awesomestest ACTOR EVER , in the whole universe of actors, kids and adults alike, even better than Bale.

I can't stand the kid either.  I think that's because I recognised him as Kiefer Sutherland's mute autistic son Jake from "Touch".  I was always so annoyed with that character, I get that he was supposed to be mute but all he did was rock back and forth and heave and shake and stare.  On Gotham, the actor gets to speak, but I know I can't have been the only one who was cackling with laughter when the kid shrieked or screamed.  Yes, of course it was traumatic, his parents had just been killed in front of him.  But the shriek/scream was just so very badly acted.

[Atony]

liked that Gordon was able to solve his riddle without batting an eye.  In the Val Kilmer movie version (and the 60s show for that matter, though I can't remember if it happened in the animated series) Gordon would have been stumped and used the Bat Signal.

 

On the flipside that's kind of the whole point of characters like Batman being the superhero.  Someone like the Riddler is supposed to be so clever that normal people can't catch him, and it takes the "world's greatest detective" like Batman to be able to stop him.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Atony

[foreverevolving]

First thing first: i am not a comic book reader, so "because it's in the comics" means nothing to me- especially since i am also aware of the nature of comics to reboot its stories time and time again.

 

about the show:

Personally i enjoyed the pilot very much! it was exactly what i expected it to be and than some.

out of the male DC superheros Batman has always been my favorite one. so i was looking forward to this show.

 

There was an overall strong - occasional subtle occasional slightly campy - acting from the entire cast. but its a show based on comics, so i take it for what it is. again for a pilot episode it was a great series opener, very few shows these days have a perfect series opener from the get go. most shows tend to take a few episodes before they manage to stabilize themselves.

 

The only one i am unsure of is the kid playing Bruce, with that being said his howl when mama and papa were dead made me cry a bit so.. and there were moments he scared me a bit (like when he was looking at gordon in the manor scene and they did a close up on his eyes- yea i can see this kid turning into The Batman one day). i have hopes for him so i'm keeping an open mind.

 

JPS and the guy playing oswald stole the show in my opinion/ where others saw campy i saw a bit of madness mixed with pure ruthlessness; the woman is called Fish Mooney, but she's a Shark - no doubt about it. will she make it? probably not, but comics - from everything i have learned about it over the years - is known for its rebooting so everything is possible right now.

 

I found the opening theme unimpressive- especially when i compare it to say Arrow, who has a killer soundtrack.

 

The only bit that made me roll my eyes, cringe and become royally pissed all at the same time was at the beginning when Selina was feeding the cat milk. No. just.. No. *smack hand to forehead* Any cat owner knows (or ought to know0 you don't feed milk to cats- it's bad for them; honestly was there no pastrami of some kind in that woman grocery bag she could have stolen (that would have fed both her and the cat)?! that was the only part i couldn't fanwank to "it's a comic book show".

 

All in all, I have to admit, if it will keep its current level it has a big chance of stealing Arrow's place as the mothership of DC comics top show. so it was a pretty solid episode.

[Milz]

I can't stand the kid either.  I think that's because I recognised him as Kiefer Sutherland's mute autistic son Jake from "Touch".  I was always so annoyed with that character, I get that he was supposed to be mute but all he did was rock back and forth and heave and shake and stare.  On Gotham, the actor gets to speak, but I know I can't have been the only one who was cackling with laughter when the kid shrieked or screamed.  Yes, of course it was traumatic, his parents had just been killed in front of him.  But the shriek/scream was just so very badly acted.

 

Mr. Milz thought it sounded like Ned Flanders.

[Alison]

My only complaint is that any cop worth his weight in salt would be able to tell when someone was killed.  Come on Harvey no blood what-so-ever you should have known that Jim didn't kill Oswald.

Maybe I was just reaching, but I thought maybe Bullock's positive response to Jim "killing" Oswald (can't remember what it was verbatim) was him being glad that Jim didn't go dirty so easily? Just a thought I had as I was pondering the pilot before bed last night.

[eyetotelescope]

I seem to be in the minority here, but this pilot was pretty "meh" for me.  They tried to cram in way too many things and cameos by various Gotham City residents (Poison Ivy, the Riddler, etc.), and it also came across as a bit cheesy (not actually dark and gritty like the recent Batman film trilogy, for example, or most of cable TV these days).  I don't think I'll be tuning in for more of this.

[Oscirus]

Maybe I was just reaching, but I thought maybe Bullock's positive response to Jim "killing" Oswald (can't remember what it was verbatim) was him being glad that Jim didn't go dirty so easily?

 

I doubt it since he's shown in the previews pestering Gordon about being so uppity when he has a body in the river.

[Sandman]

I thought the casting choices for young Mr. Nygma and proto-Penguin (and, oddly, young Bruce) were too similar. I get that Gotham is a permanently overcast, sunless hellhole of corruption and cynical derision, but how many lank-haired, palefaced nerdlingers do we need in the first episode?

 

McKenzie's a brilliant choice, though: I absolutely buy him as a paragon of insistent, if slightly outdated, principle in this nest of vipers-to-be; I like his chemistry with the other cast members, especially young Bruce.

 

I thought it was interesting to reverse the polarity (if you'll forgive that expression) of Bruce Wayne's relationship with the future Commissioner: instead of having Batman work with the support of the police commissioner, Gordon actually turned in his badge to young Mr. Wayne (and accepted it back from him); Jim's working from within to change the corrupt system, but his moral authority derives from his promise to Bruce. He's working for Batman. Which means Batman is no longer a vigilante, but at least potentially the moral source of this universe.

 

Maybe I was just reaching, but I thought maybe Bullock's positive response to Jim "killing" Oswald (can't remember what it was verbatim) was him being glad that Jim didn't go dirty so easily? Just a thought I had as I was pondering the pilot before bed last night.

 

Bullock said "Attaboy" when he saw Cobblepot hit the water. I took that to mean Bullock approved of (or was at least relieved about) Gordon's learning to "play along." It seemed Bullock was too far away to make out the minor detail of Cobblepot's escape. No doubt Gordon's going to have to work to keep up the façade of being as corrupt as everyone else.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Sandman

[SimoneS]

This seems to be a Hollywood pilot thing. Everyone needs to be seen upfront -- even if that's not the best way to tell the story. I kinda get that producers, etc. might need to do that to pitch a show, but then I think they should then do it the better way for when it actually airs. Of course, then making two pilots is not cost effective... so we're stuck with front-loaded pilots.

 

/pet peeve

 

I think that Hollywood does this, especially now because too many of their potential viewers have shown time and time again that they have short attention spans. If they are not hooked by the pilot, they will give a show the thumbs down and change the channel. Consequently, they throw a lot into the pilot so that they hopefully hold on to enough viewers to keep the show on the air long enough to let their stories unfold. 

 

I think that Gotham has produced a solid pilot giving a taste of the potential villains that will appear from the Batman-verse. 

Edited September 23, 2014 by SimoneS

[Alison]

I doubt it since he's shown in the previews pestering Gordon about being so uppity when he has a body in the river.

Ah yes, I forgot about that.

[willpwr]

After 2 seasons of watching the female lead character on Arrow suck the life out of pretty much every scene she's in and take me out of the show while I try to make sense of what's going on with her, I must admit that so far I am enjoying Jada Pinkett-Smith's campiness. I love how Gotham looks, they crammed a lot of stuff in but I figure it's the pilot and hopefully the next few episodes won't have that issue.

[Chas411]

So... is Barbara a lesbian? I'm not sure I really needed that development with her and the other cop... is that in the comics?

[Lantern7]

Barbara is not a canon lesbian. Rene Montoya, on the other hand, is a canon lesbian.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

the title screen, with the increasingly loud music over the "GOTHAM" title which zooms in on you and gets larger seemed the same.

Mr. EB's response to that was to turn to me and say, "Got ham?"

[Chas411]

So are we supposed to think they were in love or something?

[SimoneS]

So are we supposed to think they were in love or something?

 

What if they were? 

[Chas411]

 

What if they were?

 

No issue with it it was just out of the left field for me. I was liking the Jim/Barbara relationship I didn't need a third person so soon.

 

And I'd say the same of the development if was a male cop.

[Wax Lion]

I'm confused about Renee. I thought she was young enough to be James Gordon's daughter (literally, I thought she was about Oracle's age) but here she's James' age. Did they age up her character to include her in the show?

[Atony]

I'm confused about Renee. I thought she was young enough to be James Gordon's daughter (literally, I thought she was about Oracle's age) but here she's James' age. Did they age up her character to include her in the show?

 

Yeah the ages of those characters don't match up to comic books though that shouldn't be surprising that this show will only follow comic continuity loosely (I mean Catwoman was a witness to the Waynes murder?  Gordon doesn't already have a young daughter that will be a future Batgirl/Oracle?)

 

 

 

No issue with it it was just out of the left field for me. I was liking the Jim/Barbara relationship I didn't need a third person so soon.

 

Well it was implied their relationship was in the past, everyone has exes.  What is weird for me is that Barbara seemed so terrified that Gordon might find out they once dated.  I don't want that plot thread to be some shocking source of drama in their relationship.  That would be very weak.

 

But yeah, according the comic continuity Barbara is his first wife that ended in divorce so I would expect drama there.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Atony

[Guest Accused Dingo]

I do wish they hadn't introduced so many characters all at once.

 

 

Its not that they introduced so many characters.  Its that they introduced so many characters that we "know" already.  Lets play a game for a second and pretend that this isn't Batman and lets see who the show actually introduced.  Two main detectives.  A boy and his butler.  Two side detectives who are investigating the main ones.  The main guys girlfriend.  A Medical examiner.  A mob boss, his underlings and two people who are gunning for his job.  Oh and two possible love interests for the boy with the butler.    Now because this is Batman and most if not all of us have some knowledge of the story we can pick out a fair amount of the "characters".of the legend.  How many of them were actually necessary for the pilot?  I actually thought most of them were in one extent or the other.  Unless you want to make the Medical examiner a John Smith instead of a Riddler but what fun is that.  I guess you could have introduced him in episode 2 but the murder of the Waynes is a big enough to have all hands on deck.  Other than that the only other character I could see not being on the pilot is  possibly Poison Ivy but then that takes away her father being the one getting set up....and that is a whole other worm garden so...yeah,  Its not the number of characters its the actual fact that we know their names and life stories.  

Edited September 23, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[SimoneS]

No issue with it it was just out of the left field for me. I was liking the Jim/Barbara relationship I didn't need a third person so soon.

 

And I'd say the same of the development if was a male cop.

 

Having a past with Montoya gives Barbara something to do other than being James' love interest. It also gives Jim some potential drama in his personal life which is a good thing.

[Chas411]

 

Having a past with Montoya gives Barbara something to do other than being James' love interest. It also gives Jim some potential drama in his personal life which is a good thing.

True, I'd just prefer if the additional drama had come in the form of something other then a potential love triangle.

[callie lee 29]

 

Do they really expect us to believe with all that jumping, leaping and climbing that Catween guzzled nearly a quart of milk before feeding that cat ?  Because that jug was nearly empty when she fed the cat.

I think that bothered me the most. I was actually saying aloud (to my cat) "what the hell happened to all the milk??"

 

 

Its not that they introduced so many characters.  Its that they introduced so many characters that we "know" already.  Lets play a game for a second and pretend that this isn't Batman and lets see who the show actually introduced.  Two main detectives.  A boy and his butler.  Two side detectives who are investigating the main ones.  The main guys girlfriend.  A Medical examiner.  A mob boss, his underlings and two people who are gunning for his job.  Oh and two possible love interests for the boy with the butler.    Now because this is Batman and most if not all of us have some knowledge of the story we can pick out a fair amount of the "characters".of the legend.  How many of them were actually necessary for the pilot?  I actually thought most of them were in one extent or the other.  Unless you want to make the Medical examiner a John Smith instead of a Riddler but what fun is that.  I guess you could have introduced him in episode 2 but the murder of the Waynes is a big enough to have all hands on deck.  Other than that the only other character I could see not being on the pilot is  possibly Poison Ivy but then that takes away her father being the one getting set up....and that is a whole other worm garden so...yeah,  Its not the number of characters its the actual fact that we know their names and life stories.

Great point. With no background knowledge, we have 3-4 main characters, a couple of "against our guy" cops, a girlfriend, and some kid w/ his pseudo-dad.  Everyone else is glorified extra's. 

 

Personally, this is the one pilot I was eagerly anticipating. I loved it. I have working knowledge of the comics (meaning I've read a few of the later ones, that's about it), seen most of the movies, and I think the point of view of Gotham when Bruce was a kid is brilliant. I also am intrigued with the (hopeful) idea that we might have a periphery view of Batman's growth.

 

I'm actually really surprised that my favorite, at this point, character is Bullock. I normally don't like grey, anti-hero type characters. I like the Gordon type's: good, well-meaning, etc. Donal Logue is amazing though!

[ribboninthesky1]

I, too, was underwhelmed by the pilot.  Quite a bit of the dialogue was awful.  I remember briefly reading the TWOP thread, perplexed at why a TV show takes pretty much everything from the Batman world and then excludes the lynchpin (adult Bruce Wayne), and then promptly forgetting about this show until a couple days ago.  So, I didn't have any particular expectations.  What I did not expect was Jada Pinkett-Smith stealing every scene she was in.  But her character isn't canon, and this show is mining Batman mythos for world-building, so I don't expect her to have much of a future.  If she lasts through the end of the season (assuming it's not cancelled), I'll be surprised.

 

I liked that Gordon was able to solve his riddle without batting an eye.  In the Val Kilmer movie version (and the 60s show for that matter, though I can't remember if it happened in the animated series) Gordon would have been stumped and used the Bat Signal.

On the flipside that's kind of the whole point of characters like Batman being the superhero.  Someone like the Riddler is supposed to be so clever that normal people can't catch him, and it takes the "world's greatest detective" like Batman to be able to stop him.

 

To me, this was more of a classic set-up: the protaganist has to be the smartest, more competent guy in the room.  On this show, that's Jim, so naturally, he solves the riddle.  In the Batman universe, it is, of course, Bruce/Batman. In the animated series, I don't think Gordon was shown solving riddles.  Then again, the animated series also made it a point to emphasize how smart Nygma was. It's early days, so it's possible that this version of the Riddler will get deeper characterization.

 

I think that Hollywood does this, especially now because too many of their potential viewers have shown time and time again that they have short attention spans. If they are not hooked by the pilot, they will give a show the thumbs down and change the channel. Consequently, they throw a lot into the pilot so that they hopefully hold on to enough viewers to keep the show on the air long enough to let their stories unfold. 

 

There's a lot of TV out there, so I understand why some viewers don't give shows a second look if the pilot doesn't speak to them.  The whole point of the pilot is to spark interest.  I've never felt that a viewer is responsible for giving shows a chance if they're not interested.   Doesn't mean shows can't get better, but I don't think it's a matter of short attention spans.  There's so much content available now - people have options, and choose to exercise them at their discretion.  It seems like the sales pitch of this show was "It's the world of Batman! without...Batman!" so they front loaded it with as much of it as possible to set it apart from the police procedural it seems to be.  

 

In any case, I'll probably let several episodes pile up before I watch again.  This isn't must-see TV for me, though sometimes I've found that episode marathons can generate more interest from me than watching week-to-week.

Edited September 24, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[kmm49]

It has potential but where can it go? It's just going to be a cop drama. I'll give it another go because I did stay interested the whole hour.

[Trini]

 

What I did not expect was Jada Pinkett-Smith stealing every scene she was in.  But her character isn't canon, and this show is mining Batman mythos for world-building, so I don't expect her to have much of a future.  If she lasts through the end of the season (assuming it's not cancelled), I'll be surprised.

 

I feel a lot more optimistic about Fish Mooney's longevity than most, I guess. She's not from the comics, but I think  she'll be around as long as the writers like her. (In my experience with other genre shows, over-the-top villains tend to stick around longer than you want, or longer than is logical. Or both!)

[Kel Varnsen]

I really liked it. The number of future villain shout-outs was a bit over the top. But they have a good cast and the look of the show is amazing. It is like a real version of Batman:The Animated Series. Which makes me wonder what it would take for Bruce TImm or Paul Dini to write an episode.

[ribboninthesky1]

I feel a lot more optimistic about Fish Mooney's longevity than most, I guess. She's not from the comics, but I think  she'll be around as long as the writers like her. (In my experience with other genre shows, over-the-top villains tend to stick around longer than you want, or longer than is logical. Or both!)

If she wasn't a "one of these things is not like the others" character among the introduced antagonists (and just about anyone who wasn't a glorified extra), I'd agree.  She's certainly the one I'm most interested in, particularly among the female characters introduced so far.  But I'm uncertain where her character can go, especially since Cobblepot has already been established as one who looks to supplant her in the crime world, and has been given an easy way to do it.

 

And as villains go, it's a given that they'll be OTT on this show, so I didn't find her any less so than Penguin. I didn't find her all that campy, though Jada was certainly having fun with the role.  As an aside, my favorite moment wasn't the wig adjustment, it was her deadpan "...True" (after giving Cobblepot the side-eye) response to Bullock's assertion that she had a snitch in her organization.

Edited September 24, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[Morbs]

I think it's really weird to plagiarize a joke.  Has anyone involved with the show offered an explanation?

 

Hopefully the show lasts 20 years so we can see the actual fun stuff happen.  Season 20 is going to be off the hook.

[Sandman]

I think joke was cribbed for its morbid quality; adds to the"Is he going to turn out to be the Joker" effect, along with tragicomic faces the actor was pulling repeatedly. (Who knows? Maybe they obtained clearance/permission from Wright?)

[Jediknight]

On the flipside that's kind of the whole point of characters like Batman being the superhero.  Someone like the Riddler is supposed to be so clever that normal people can't catch him, and it takes the "world's greatest detective" like Batman to be able to stop him.

I didn't mind that.  With that riddle, Nigma wasn't going all out.  Now he sees that Gordon is smarter than the other detectives, so he thinks he could be a worthy foe to bounce riddles off of.  Of course Gordon's not as smart as Batman, but they should make Gordon smart.

 

I liked the pilot.  I thought Ben McKenzie did a fantastic job as Gordon.  I really liked Nigma and Osawld, they were perfectly creepy.  And the conspiracy behind the hit on the Waynes could really make for some good television.

 

I also like that they're going with the continuity that Gordon is part of the reason Bruce becomes Batman.  He's the detective that doesn't see young Bruce as a rich kid that's going to be perfectly fine because he has money.  He sees him as a kid that saw his parents murdered, and tries to comfort him when the other cops don't give a crap.

[2KllMckngBrd]

If that offended you, I guess it is a good thing they didn't take Mrs. Wayne's two girls and one cup.

I see what you did there. You're not slick. Not biting this time. It can't end well. And my son is already trying to avoid my "how in the hell do you know that" questions after last night! That one might lead to his homelessness, and society doesn't want that. Trust me. He's legal, but not fully cooked yet. If you know what I mean?

I wasn't actually offended so much as, eww...why? Why? Why would Gotham have done that? B/c they weren't getting enough press? Fish Mooney? Dead woman's "pearl necklace"? Sexual tension between future Mrs. Gordon and Montoya that could burn Gotham down? Swimming? Really, swimming?

Feel like I'm going to need some sort of "guide to pussy double entendres'" to watch this show, or read this forum.

(not as prudish, as I seemed, huh? c what I did there...)

[Merneith]

Remember - it's not Wayne Manor. It's Stately Wayne Manor.

 

I don't really care about any of this except Donal Logue and Sean Pertwee, but I thought it was an enjoyable hour of television. I'll keep watching.

[Camera One]

It was a decent pilot, though not as good as I had hoped.  The whole pilot felt very disjointed.  The dialogue often felt stilted, like it wasn't a real conversation.  For example, Gordon telling Bruce that "There will be light".  It just didn't feel natural.  And later on, telling the kid about the cops planting evidence?  Why?  I did like the Gordon/Bruce chemistry but there needed to be more before Gordon told him such adult stuff.

 

I'm not sure it was effective to jump right in with that police station hostage situation.  I would rather have seen Jim's first day on the job, meeting his partner, etc.  The way they played it, Gordon didn't seem like the "new guy", especially how everyone listened to his commands.  And then the out-of-nowhere, suddenly Jim is home with some random woman?  And she knows Renee and Jim's partner?  How long had Gordon lived in Gotham anyway, since he's already in a relationship.  Again, the lines were so bad.  "You know how to swim, don't you?"  It doesn't sound like real people talking.

 

Mob stories don't interest me, so the villains angle is the only thing that keeps this show apart from the boring cop dramas.  Jumping right to Oswald murdering random people at the end?  Meh.  

 

I actually did end up being interested in Ivy Pepper even though she was shoehorned into the Wayne murders plot.

 

Overall, the performances were pretty decent, and it seems to have good production values, so I'll stick with it for a while.  

[Oscirus]

Having a past with Montoya gives Barbara something to do other than being James' love interest. It also gives Jim some potential drama in his personal life which is a good thing.

 

She's a high society woman in a filthy place like Gotham, if the best the writers can come up with is that she had a lesbian relationship with a police woman then they really lack the imagination needed for a project like Gotham. I hope she's not one of those female characters that are defined by the relationship that they're in.

 

I feel a lot more optimistic about Fish Mooney's longevity than most, I guess. She's not from the comics, but I think  she'll be around as long as the writers like her. (In my experience with other genre shows, over-the-top villains tend to stick around longer than you want, or longer than is logical. Or both!)

 

At the rate that she's going I can't imagine that Falcone or the police force will tolerate her being so open with her crimes for much longer. Especially when they have a headache like Gordon sniffing around.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was a little confused about how Gordon knew Barbara. They seem like they've been together for a long time if she is talking about marriage, but he just started working at the police station and she seems pretty established in that fancy apartment. Were they dating before he left? Or was he in Gotham (or a nearby city) before he joined the GCPD?

[Kel Varnsen]

  "You know how to swim, don't you?"  It doesn't sound like real people talking.

Considering that Gotham doesn't look like a real place that people live, I am kind of ok with the characters not sounding like how real people talk. I mean Gordon's fiancee lives inside a clock.

 

Mob stories don't interest me, so the villains angle is the only thing that keeps this show apart from the boring cop dramas.  Jumping right to Oswald murdering random people at the end?  Meh.

 

Traditionally those early days of Gotham stories are usually about how the freaks (super villains) take over and it pushes out the mob. See the dark knight movie, or the long Halloween comic. So I am kind of ok with the mob being the top guys for now and the super villains slowly taking over. Plus Rawls from The Wire!

[Syndicate]

It has potential but where can it go? It's just going to be a cop drama. I'll give it another go because I did stay interested the whole hour.

I think this gets written more as a "crime soap" rather than a typical cop drama, if that makes any sense.  There's already the potential for a love triangle on this show which is a soap opera staple.  They've said that this won't be a villain-of-the week type of show but strangely, the descriptions for the next two episodes seem to indicate villains-of-the-week scenarios.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Syndicate

[Xantar]

I'm actually not convinced that Barbara's big secret is that she is bisexual (she's definitely not a lesbian because she's shown enjoying sex with Gordon quite a lot). Yes, that's somewhat implied in what Renee Montoya said, and that may be bpart of it. But in this day and age, why would Jim care if Barbara had a girlfriend in the past and why would Montoya think that's worth using? Something about the whole scene implied to me that Montoya knew something else about Barbara's past. Her actual words were simply, "Does he know you?" Montoya is a cop. Maybe Barbara is a criminal. Maybe her wealth is ill-gotten. There's no reason her secret has to be ONLY that she and Montoya were romantically involved in the past.

[Kel Varnsen]

Another little weird thing I just realized. The mob boss, like usual is Carmine Falcone. In this show the second part of is last name is pronounced cone, like a traffic cone. But in the Nolan Batman movies they pronounce the name with the 'e' at the end so it sounds like Fal-cone-ee. I wonder which one is correct.

[Agent Dark]

I was a little confused about how Gordon knew Barbara. They seem like they've been together for a long time if she is talking about marriage, but he just started working at the police station and she seems pretty established in that fancy apartment. Were they dating before he left? Or was he in Gotham (or a nearby city) before he joined the GCPD?

Batman: Year One (one of the major inspirations for Batman Begins) has James Gordon recently transferring to Gotham City from the Chicago PD along with Barbara, and shows how he has to adapt to the corruption in the Gotham City PD.  I figure they're going for something similar here - I mean he's made Detective so he's had to have been a cop somewhere for a while. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Thanks for the explanation! I haven't read Batman: Year One so I wasn't clear about the timing of his job, their relationship, etc. Coming from Chicago together makes sense.

[Alison]

I was listening to Alan Sepinwall's podcast this morning and he mentioned there's some sort of legal action against the show from the creator of Barbara, so it will be interesting to see what happens with her character vis-a-vis whatever happens with that.

[blackwing]

They'd be crazy to kill off Jada Pinkett Smith.  She's the best thing about this show, and it's nice to see a minority woman in charge.  I love the fact that she's also so physically small and yet unafraid to take on men so much bigger than she is.  I really hope she wasn't just a hook to get people to start watching and then she's gone fairly soon.  If they are smart, they will find a way to keep her around.

 

The mob boss, like usual is Carmine Falcone. In this show the second part of is last name is pronounced cone, like a traffic cone. But in the Nolan Batman movies they pronounce the name with the 'e' at the end so it sounds like Fal-cone-ee. I wonder which one is correct.

Fal-cone-ee would be the more authentic Italian way to pronounce this presumably Italian name.  I'm assuming he's Italian given his first name is Carmine.  

[Sandman]

Something about the whole scene implied to me that Montoya knew something else about Barbara's past. Her actual words were simply, "Does he know you?" Montoya is a cop. Maybe Barbara is a criminal. Maybe her wealth is ill-gotten. There's no reason her secret has to be ONLY that she and Montoya were romantically involved in the past.

 

If Barbara's secret is that she has an ex-girlfriend, it really would give Gotham a retro feel, in all the wrong ways. Hmm. Maybe she's an art dealer with a tidy little sideline in forgery, or maybe she's not too fussy about the provenances of the works in her gallery? I'm assuming (for now) that this version of Gotham City will not include the so-called metahumans, or any kind of paranormal abilities.

[truthaboutluv]

I really liked the episode. I can understand the criticisms of there being too much going on but at the same time, that might have helped the show from lagging because I was honestly never bored once. And I was so surprised when I checked the time and realized the hour was almost up. Some of the dialogue was clunky, particularly in the very early scenes and I found some of the early interactions between Gordon and Harvey a little hokey and awkward but they found their groove by the middle of the episode. Jada Pinkett Smith was awesome. 

 

I also didn't have a problem with the actors playing future Penguin and future Riddler. Yes they had the same lanky, pale build but Penguin with that nose and almost physically looking like Penguin is hard to confuse with anyone else. And I thought future Riddler matched the look of the character in the movies and comics. I also kind of liked the scene, showing how Harvey especially was so dismissive of him because as I recall from the story that's one of the things that led to Riddler's losing his damn mind and going all evil. He was constantly ignored and dismissed as weird. 

 

I also had no problems with young Bruce Wayne and thought the actor did a very good job. I think the creator's hyperbole around him annoyed some and I remembered reading comments before the show even premiered with many expressing that annoyance so I feel like there might have been some inherent bias coming in. Almost a "yeah let's see how super amazing this kid supposedly is" and an almost predilection to dislike him. In my opinion, he did a solid job. I never saw moments of awkwardness in any of his scenes, as often can happen with kid actors. And I think he and Benjamin McKenzie have a good chemistry. Speaking of Ben, he too did a solid job as Gordon. I don't think the role calls for him to stretch himself that much as an actor but what he did, he did well.

 

I am interested in seeing where the show goes and how the tone shifts and changes if ever. Are they going to go for more darker, dramatic feeling or will it be more campy, comic book. I guess difference between Christopher Nolan's Batman versus Joel Schumacher's. Of course they can go more Tim Burton Batman which was just awesomely weird. 

[Trini]

 

They'd be crazy to kill off Jada Pinkett Smith.

 

Oh, I think she'll be here for entire first season, at least. Probably longer.

 

 

 I'm assuming (for now) that this version of Gotham City will not include the so-called metahumans, or any kind of paranormal abilities.

 

Responding in the Speculation thread.

[In2You]

I think this gets written more as a "crime soap" rather than a typical cop drama, if that makes any sense.  There's already the potential for a love triangle on this show which is a soap opera staple.  They've said that this won't be a villain-of-the week type of show but strangely, the descriptions for the next two episodes seem to indicate villains-of-the-week scenarios.

Love triangles were around long before soap operas. And someone having an ex doesn't mean a love triangle is being established. Nothing about the pilot was soap opera esque

[maczero]

BTW . . . hey, Gotham? Don't try to bring in potential Jokers every week. I heard some joking about that, but that would get really old really fast.

 

I think it's not a joke.  I remember reading something from an official source stating we would get some sort of hint regarding the Joker in every episode.

I have questions about Gordon's history with the city/police: Everyone kept treating (and telling) Gordon like it was his first day in Gotham. Maybe it's his first week as a detective, but doesn't that imply that he has been in the GCPD for a while at a lower rank? Because it seems as though this was his first taste of how corrupt and cynical the police force is, but he didn't pick up on that when he worked there previously? (Was he there previously?) Did I miss a line of exposition? I'm going to need a little more backstory.

Could he have been a beat cop in another city before transferring to Gotham.  Barbara did say she preferred his detective get-up over his uniform.  I'm guessing she meant police uniform not military.

 

I hope there's more to Barbara then the implied lesbian relationship. I also didn't get why she would go to Donal when she knew Harvey was in trouble. I get that he's his partner but why wouldn't she go to her friends on the force?

Who Montoya?  I was under the impression that the two weren't on the best of terms right now.  Bullock makes more sense since being Gordon's partner he would've most likely have been the last person to see him.

 

We know from Batman Begins that Fish Mooney probably doesn't survive, but Carmine Falcone does.  I suspect Jada Pinkett Smith signed a one-year contract - I doubt she would commit long term to a TV show.

 

Unless you've heard something that I haven't, there's no evidence that this show is part of the Nolan-verse.

 

Introducing the future baddies now will allow them to introduce the future heroes, like Superman, gradually.

I seriously doubt we'll ever see Superman on this show.  The closest thing to Superman I would expect is a reference to Metropolis, The Daily Planet and/or Smallville.  And that's fine by me.  On a related note, how do you guys feel about super powers being introduced on the show?