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S02.E12: The Last Thanksgiving

chitowngirl

By chitowngirl
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aghst

aghst

I guess Louis will be brought into this happy, loving circle next season.

Jimmy is a doctor — they have medical degrees to practice therapy? — so despite the tragedy, he would reach out to prevent harm that Louis seemed to be contemplating.

But it’s not as believable that Alice would not only be so forgiving but wanting to forge a relationship with Louis?  They’re trying to show how wise beyond her years she is.

Just not credible.

As far as Louis, he chose to be alone right?  However wracked his conscience was, he sent his girlfriend or fiancée away — my recollection was that she was ready to stand by him, support him through his emotional devastation.

He thought he’d be so miserable and mistreat her so he broke up with her.  Yet he’s now trying to be this happy barista guy, wanting to be with his coworkers socially and friendly with Alice, wanting Jimmy to forgive him?

So why wouldn’t he reach out to his girlfriend, instead messages a 17 year old teen daughter of the woman he killed?

Seems like the writers are straining to show how these characters go through struggles so that the snappy, happy dialogue is deserving.  Despite trying so hard to be smart and colorful, they want us to know these are serious people, who’ve gone through “real” and heavy things in their lives.

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AheadofStraight

AheadofStraight

Louis confuses me. He dumped the finance because she reminded him of the accident. But Alice doesn't?!?! If anything, she should be an even worse reminder. 

Otherwise, I loved the episode and got teary a couple of times. I am absolutely loving Harrison Ford on this show. I just watched his episode of Conan Needs A Friend on YouTube (wanted to see the visuals instead of just the regular podcast) and he is basically Paul in real life lol!

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Dminches

Dminches

20 hours ago, aghst said:

But it’s not as believable that Alice would not only be so forgiving but wanting to forge a relationship with Louis?  They’re trying to show how wise beyond her years she is.

Just not credible.

 

This has nothing to do with Alice being wise. She is a teenager and teenagers don't think and process things like adults. At that age they still think everything can be great (about others). To me, it is not surprising that she would be able to look past her own grief and open up to someone who killed her mother. Likewise, I completely understand Jimmy's reluctance to get involved. Adults and kids don't see things the same way.

 

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grawlix

grawlix

On 12/24/2024 at 7:45 AM, AheadofStraight said:

Louis confuses me. He dumped the finance because she reminded him of the accident. But Alice doesn't?!?! If anything, she should be an even worse reminder.

My thought is that Louis believed he didn't deserve any happiness in his life.  He felt that he needed to be miserable and breaking up with Sarah allowed him to wallow in his regret.  Saying that Sarah reminded him of the accident was his excuse to break up with her but I don't think he was being truthful.

Alice was not part of his former life so her presence allows him to stop wallowing and start on moving on.

I expect Sarah to return to Louis' life sometime next season.

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Good Queen Jane

Good Queen Jane

Jimmy et al are psychologists, not psychiatrists. No medical degrees. 
 

Tia’s death happened two years ago. Immediately afterwards Louis was consumed with guilt and self loathing. As stated above, he didn’t think he deserved happiness so he broke up with his fiancée. He then served his prison sentence of 10 months and started to rebuild his life. He started to believe he could be happy again with friends and then his past actions came up again and destroyed that. Dashed hope can become despair so quickly. I’m glad for both Louis and Jimmy that Jimmy could reach out to him in time. 
 

Next season should be really interesting.

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aghst

aghst

(edited)

Didn't Jimmy or one of the others prescribe meds to some of the patients in the first season?

Yeah Jimmy doesn't look like the type who'd have applied himself to get through medical school.

In any event, I can see Louis reaching out to someone but a 17-year old teen, regardless of how he came to know her, doesn't seem to be at top of list of people he should lean on.

Hell he'd have gotten more help from some stranger at a crisis hotline than a teen.  Jimmy kind of works because Louis was seeking validation from him, to put this tragic accident behind him.  Jimmy ws the last one whose forgiveness he was seeking.

But messaging Alice?  Still don't buy it.  He knew  Brian too, so Brian before Alice but they're both towards the bottom of the list.

Edited by aghst
Blakeston

Blakeston

I think I might have missed something this season. Louis and Alice were friends, then Jimmy saw them together and told Louis, "I don't want you interacting with my daughter or my friends."

So Louis told Alice that they couldn't hang out, and Alice figured out that Jimmy was behind it, so she told off Jimmy.

Then...Louis and Alice are friends again, and Alice is demanding that Jimmy reach out to Louis personally?

Maybe I missed a scene in the middle of all this, where Jimmy tells Louis, "I changed my mind, it's fine for you to hang out with my daughter, but I don't want to be around you myself." Or a scene where Louis tells Alice, "I don't care what your father thinks anymore, so let's hang out."

Also, how did Louis's co-worker's family/friends figure out that Louis killed someone? Did the co-worker google him, and then tell everyone, "Hey, the guy I invited over for Thanksgiving is guilty of vehicular homicide? If so, it was a dick move. That really should have been explained better.

Other thoughts:

I kind of hate that Alice's emotional blackmail basically saved the day.

The physical attractiveness of Wendie Malick and Damon Wayans Jr. was commented on so much this season that if I were either of those actors, I would wonder if someone on the writing staff was stalking me.

I suspect that they're setting up the groundwork for Summer to move in next season. I hope so - she's easily one of the funniest parts of the show.

 

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Ceindreadh

Ceindreadh

On 12/27/2024 at 4:10 AM, twoods said:

What a great ending to this season. From Jimmy and Alice’s conversation to Paul thanking everyone, and then the train station Jimmy and Louis. I hope they both can forgive themselves and heal together next year. 


 

I on the other hand hope the Louis decides to move on and do his healing somewhere else.

I get that we're supposed to feel sympathy for the guy because he's beating himself up about what happened.  But Alice's mother, Jimmy's wife, is dead because Louis decided he didn't want the inconvenience of getting his car the next morning.  That's it.  He had an alternative to not getting behind the wheel of a car that night and he didn't take it. 

And then of course there's the events at the station.  Yes Louis, you feel like your life is fucked up, but that doesn't give you the right to fuck up other people's lives.  The train driver, all the passengers, and of course Alice who would have blamed herself for not responding to his last text on time. 

No, hopefully Louis' arc is done and dusted and that's the last we'll see of him. 

 

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ebk57

ebk57

15 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

And then of course there's the events at the station.  Yes Louis, you feel like your life is fucked up, but that doesn't give you the right to fuck up other people's lives.  The train driver, all the passengers, and of course Alice who would have blamed herself for not responding to his last text on time.

This!  This was all I could think about while he was standing there deciding whether to ruin the lives of everyone on that train, not to mention Alice's.  I'm ambivalent about whether he comes back or not.  I think it could work out either way for the rest of the characters.  But if he'd done that - even the fact that he was contemplating it - made me really anxious, and angry. 

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Ilovepie

Ilovepie

Some of these comments here make me sad. Someone who is at such a point of despair to take their own life are not in a mental state to think about the fallout from their actions. As a mom who has a child who has had suicidal thoughts I was devastated for Louis, especially juxtapositioned with the love and support from the group thanksgiving and Paul's speech about not being alone. I am so glad Jimmy showed up. I thought this whole scene was so powerful, I am tearing up just thinking about it now. I hope this isn't the end of Louis' story.

These people are all flawed, but they have each other to help them get better. That is my takeaway from this show.

I really hope Cobie comes back as a love interest for Jimmy. I am so thankful they moved on from Jimmy and Gabby and I hope they are not endgame. They are so much better as friends.

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aghst

aghst

Roy Kent is one of the EPs with the show, may have some creative input.

I can't imagine they will completely eliminate the character abruptly.  Maybe just wind down that plot a bit.

Most of this season they were all a happy crew and then in the last couple of episodes, Jimmy having these heavy feelings and Louis also coming to this big moment at the train station, just as a result of his co-worker not inviting him to a holiday gathering.

Seems like the writers didn't want to drag down the whole season with sadness but also wanted to inject some "serious" scenes towards the tail end so that the show isn't seen as lightweight.

 

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DEL901

DEL901

13 minutes ago, aghst said:

Roy Kent is one of the EPs with the show, may have some creative input.

I can't imagine they will completely eliminate the character abruptly.  Maybe just wind down that plot a bit.

Most of this season they were all a happy crew and then in the last couple of episodes, Jimmy having these heavy feelings and Louis also coming to this big moment at the train station, just as a result of his co-worker not inviting him to a holiday gathering.

Seems like the writers didn't want to drag down the whole season with sadness but also wanted to inject some "serious" scenes towards the tail end so that the show isn't seen as lightweight.

 

Not just one of the EPs.  He is a co-creator so he probably has a fair amount of creative input.

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Kirbyrun

Kirbyrun

13 hours ago, aghst said:

Louis also coming to this big moment at the train station, just as a result of his co-worker not inviting him to a holiday gathering.

I'd say it wasn't "just" this. The (rather cold and too-blunt dis-invite) was the straw that broke the camel's back. Louis was clinging to his new life and had it yanked away from him. He's gotta be wondering if he'll be able to keep his job, if his boss/friend will continue being his friend, etc. It's all entangled.

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TVbitch

TVbitch

This could have been a series finale, but I will keep watching if there is a season three. I'm a little trepidatious about injecting a baby and head nanny Liz into the picture. Love Harrison Ford in this.

I think the big flaw for me is that they've given every single character the same sense of humor. Alice, Jimmy, Paul, the whole friend/colleague group, all the patients, Louis, even small parts like the guy managing the adoption or the girl selling the car ~they're all snarky and quick-witted and come back with a snappy retort or sarcastic deadpan quip in every exchange. I guess it makes for entertaining dialog, but it bugs me. 

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aghst

aghst

16 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

This could have been a series finale, but I will keep watching if there is a season three. I'm a little trepidatious about injecting a baby and head nanny Liz into the picture. Love Harrison Ford in this.

I think the big flaw for me is that they've given every single character the same sense of humor. Alice, Jimmy, Paul, the whole friend/colleague group, all the patients, Louis, even small parts like the guy managing the adoption or the girl selling the car ~they're all snarky and quick-witted and come back with a snappy retort or sarcastic deadpan quip in every exchange. I guess it makes for entertaining dialog, but it bugs me. 

That seems to happen with some TV shows.  They're writing one-liners for all the characters rather than trying to craft a dialog with lines unique to each character.

It's not realistic to have conversations consisting mostly of one-liners.

But they are crowd-pleasing, with people quoting them.

A show like Succession had a lot of memorable lines but the speech structure, like syntax and word choices were specific to each character.

 

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juno

juno

56 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

This could have been a series finale, but I will keep watching if there is a season three. I'm a little trepidatious about injecting a baby and head nanny Liz into the picture. Love Harrison Ford in this.

I think the big flaw for me is that they've given every single character the same sense of humor. Alice, Jimmy, Paul, the whole friend/colleague group, all the patients, Louis, even small parts like the guy managing the adoption or the girl selling the car ~they're all snarky and quick-witted and come back with a snappy retort or sarcastic deadpan quip in every exchange. I guess it makes for entertaining dialog, but it bugs me. 

This is a Bill Lawrence specialty. Every one of his shows has the exact same type of characters (including his wife, who is in his shows), and the exact type of humour and story lines. This show is almost exactly like Cougar Town.

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possibilities

possibilities

I aactually know someone who committed suicide. At her memorial, there were so many people-- it was standing room only. She was very much loved and valued, but she simply did not feel it, or it wasn't enough to overcome her internal despair. 

It's a mental illness.

It's not unusual for people to be angry at someone who commits suicide, leaving others to deal with the aftermath. 

But the person who does it is typically feeling that they are valueless and nobody will care that they're dead. Sometimes they think they are doing everybody a favor by removing themselves.

Maybe some do it for spite, or knowing it will cause pain to others but not caring, but it's very commonly done by people who genuinely do not at that moment think anyone will mind, and many think others will be relieved.

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iMonrey

iMonrey

(edited)
On 12/24/2024 at 9:45 AM, AheadofStraight said:

Louis confuses me. He dumped the finance because she reminded him of the accident. But Alice doesn't?!?! If anything, she should be an even worse reminder. 

Yeah. I have very mixed feelings about the Louis story arc this season. I get that we, the audience, are meant to feel sorry for this guy and hope he can forgive himself. Me? I really don't care. I'm not sure I believe he deserves forgiveness. On the one hand, I don't begrudge him the chance to move on with his life, because this is something that he will have to live with forever. On the other hand? I do not believe it is Jimmy's and Alice's responsibility to help him do that. Nor do I even think it's necessary for them to forgive him. I just think that's taking altruism too far.

This was a sadder season than the first. Didn't hate it, but didn't really care for the whole Louis thing and how it went down.

Paul's storyline is hard for me because my mother died from Parkinsons. But the way they are depicting it doesn't read "he has six months to a year" to me. All I've seen is some tremors in his hand. And maybe some involuntary shifting in his seat. Very mild, early symptoms. 

Wanted to add: hated the story arc for Brian and Charlie. God forbid someone on a TV show doesn't want kids. No, they always have to be "corrected" and told they do in fact want kids. It's such a cliche.

Meanwhile, Liz and Derrick's kids are dumb as bricks. How did that happen?

Edited by iMonrey
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Anela

Anela

(edited)
On 12/31/2024 at 4:55 PM, Ilovepie said:

Some of these comments here make me sad. Someone who is at such a point of despair to take their own life are not in a mental state to think about the fallout from their actions. As a mom who has a child who has had suicidal thoughts I was devastated for Louis, especially juxtapositioned with the love and support from the group thanksgiving and Paul's speech about not being alone. I am so glad Jimmy showed up. I thought this whole scene was so powerful, I am tearing up just thinking about it now. I hope this isn't the end of Louis' story.

These people are all flawed, but they have each other to help them get better. That is my takeaway from this show.

I really hope Cobie comes back as a love interest for Jimmy. I am so thankful they moved on from Jimmy and Gabby and I hope they are not endgame. They are so much better as friends.

 

On 1/5/2025 at 6:29 PM, possibilities said:

I aactually know someone who committed suicide. At her memorial, there were so many people-- it was standing room only. She was very much loved and valued, but she simply did not feel it, or it wasn't enough to overcome her internal despair. 

It's a mental illness.

It's not unusual for people to be angry at someone who commits suicide, leaving others to deal with the aftermath. 

But the person who does it is typically feeling that they are valueless and nobody will care that they're dead. Sometimes they think they are doing everybody a favor by removing themselves.

Maybe some do it for spite, or knowing it will cause pain to others but not caring, but it's very commonly done by people who genuinely do not at that moment think anyone will mind, and many think others will be relieved.

Exactly.  
I was just sobbing over this finale, and I’m starting to tear up again, because of that kindness.  
Today is the seven year anniversary of when I was hospitalized for being suicidal. 

Edited by Anela
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