S19.E05: The Year Of Release

[gaPeach]

23 hours ago, Twopper said:

when Kody says loyalty, I translate it to obedience plus no questioning

I agree.  I find it amazing that he is weighing his relationship with his children on the "loyalty" (to what?) they show him.  Like what?  Blindly following his overreaching Covid rules?  (Which by the way has come to light that 99% of the "rules" to Covid were made up or totally a lie.  So, Kody is ok with destroying his family over this shit?)

And now, after all these years, Kody is saying he never loved his wives, except for Robyn, they were all jealous of each other and never got along.  Really?  Then why do the wives not have the same memories?  Did they fight or have disagreements?  Or was there some jealousy?  Yes absolutely!  They are only human.  But now, according to Kody it was all bad.  Revisionist history.  And he does not understand why his kids are upset with his new comments about not loving any of their mothers.  Seriously?  

What they haven't discussed is the fact the family was a FAMILY unit when Robyn arrived.  All the women were able to live harmoniously even with the differences that came up.  It was not until Robyn arrived that the wheels started falling off.  From what I can gather from all the TH, is when Robyn came in, she was not only his favorite wife, her children became is favorite  loyal children therefore he loved them.  Sheesh he is a piece of work.

[ginger90]

18 minutes ago, gaPeach said:

It was not until Robyn arrived that the wheels started falling off.

While this is not an isolated opinion, I don’t think it’s true. This family was a mess before Robyn joined it.

[monagatuna]

4 hours ago, laurakaye said:

And why is he STILL talking about having a house that "everyone can come back to?"  Everyone who?  The only "everyones" he's got left are the ones already in his house - the rest aren't coming back!  I know he's nuts but continuing to pretend that his kids are all going to come back to gather at his knee and partake of his wisdom when he refuses to speak to them is delusional.

 

Even if his OG kids still liked, trusted, or respected him, who wants to live with daddy and stepmommy when you have your own adult life, job, and possibly family of your own? I get that multigenerational housing is a thing. It's pretty scarce in modern US times, though, and trying to wrangle 13 bio children AND their spouses AND their kids into one large cult building is just not realistic. What about the kids' partners? Don't they have parents too? What about their career goals, their jobs, their friends, pets, and lives? Are all to be sacrificed at the altar of Kody's kidneys?

I legit have been trying to figure out lately what is the obsession with getting your adult kids to "come home." Partially because my own mother keeps mentioning this to me, and I'm wondering if it's a common thing among elder people to demand that their kids "come home." Look, I haven't lived where they live in decades, I couldn't navigate their city without GPS, it's not home to me.

Is this a common thing for people with adult kids? To expect them to sacrifice their own lives and fail to launch so you can have them nearby? 

[islandgal140]

On 10/14/2024 at 2:45 AM, Andyourlittledog2 said:

I can't help but notice that whenever Robyn talks about the other wives and children she always refers to them as though they were props in the life she wants for herself. They never seem to have value in themselves or as a two way relationship with actual fully realized people. Just props to move around on the board in order to meet whatever emotional needs she has for herself.  She seems like someone who isn't a whole human being, just a shadow who needs the right scene and actors around her to fit her idea of the life she wants. If we were just talking to her alone I wouldn't get the idea that any of these other people were real live human beings.

 

I love this point and I think  I alluded to this a season or so ago. I correlated Robyn's treatment of the larger family, especially the OG3, to her being a Precious Moments collector. That is what she sees them as. Objects to be dusted off to reenact 'special moments' for her like the holidays and the pivotal 'on the porch in rocking chairs' bit.  Just feel good moments, solely for her benefit. Once those are done, she can put them back in the box, in the attic - out of side, out of mind - and go about with her monogamous life and husband. Except for their money of course, which she would have full access to 24/7. 

Mykelti took a bite out of that placenta like she was Bubble Bass eating a Krabby Patty. 

 

[Absolom]

34 minutes ago, monagatuna said:

Is this a common thing for people with adult kids? To expect them to sacrifice their own lives and fail to launch so you can have them nearby? 

It isn't something I would do.  My job reassigned me to where my mother had moved.  It was just an odd coincidence.  Then in a few years Mom and her second husband moved 1500 miles away.  When they aged and needed help, yep, they expected me to sell my house, move 1500 miles, leave my life, my kids, my grandchildren, my doctors, household help, hair stylist, etc. to take care of them.  They were very quickly reminded that they moved away from me and no I'm not moving from an area with the things above just to be at their beck and call.  I did, however, offer to move them back here.  I moved Mom after stepdad died.  It turns out he was jealous of her time spent with me.  

[applewood]

Regarding the huge house, it reminded me of that show on TLC ten years ago or so, The Putmans. They were a family from Michigan that had 4 adult children. All the children were married and there were numerous grandchildren. Anyway, the patriarch wanted them all to live in one house.  I am not endorsing the idea. i think the father was effin nuts!! He seemed like he emotionally stunted his kids.

Regarding Gabe, I thought the moving to Flagstaff was one of the saddest episode. As others said, if he stayed in LV he could have gotten a wrestling scholarship. If I recall, initially Janelle did stick up for her kids, saying that Hunter and Maddie really had a hard time with the move to Vegas and she didn't want to go through that again. But then she caved to Kody. I think it was later explained in an interview with Gwendolyn that the primary reason they moved to Flagstaff was because Dayton wanted to go to college there and Robyn didn't want him to move alone.

[Shelbie]

I remember the Putnams. They were really odd and overly enmeshed with each other.

I don’t understand the idea of everyone living in a big house. My kids, their wives and my grandchildren live about 40 minutes away. It would be lovely if we lived closer because sometimes winter weather disrupts our plans but on the whole it works well. We all see other often without driving each other crazy with too much togetherness.

[surfgirl]

5 hours ago, gaPeach said:

Blindly following his overreaching Covid rules?  (Which by the way has come to light that 99% of the "rules" to Covid were made up or totally a lie. 

If you're saying that Kodys Covid rules were BS then we are in agreement mainly because he used them to hide from his OG family. But I hope youre not inferring that social distancing, masking, and hand-washing hygiene were made up or a lie, because that's not true either. They very much helped quell the epidemic and if everyone adhered to those basic rules we would have been able to probably starve Covid out of circulation or at least lost fae fewer people. Sorry but public health specialist here.

[heatherchandler]

4 hours ago, applewood said:

Regarding Gabe, I thought the moving to Flagstaff was one of the saddest episode. As others said, if he stayed in LV he could have gotten a wrestling scholarship. If I recall, initially Janelle did stick up for her kids, saying that Hunter and Maddie really had a hard time with the move to Vegas and she didn't want to go through that again. But then she caved to Kody. I think it was later explained in an interview with Gwendolyn that the primary reason they moved to Flagstaff was because Dayton wanted to go to college there and Robyn didn't want him to move alone.

Do you remember what season this was?  

[Dibs]

3 hours ago, surfgirl said:

I hope youre not inferring that social distancing, masking, and hand-washing hygiene were made up or a lie, because that's not true either...

I believe Fauci himself is on record as saying masks (other than N95) are ineffective against viruses, which is true, and that they just "made up" the social distancing concept.  Clearly Kody and Robyn are among the many who were terrified and traumatized by the whole "panic approach" to Covid.  More accurately, who totally lost their minds over it, never to regain them.

Edited October 18 by Dibs

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I don’t understand the idea of everyone living in a big house. 

Anyone here besides me old enough to remember the tv show Dallas? All those Ewings living under one roof... It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized how odd that was; not just that all the married adults brought spouses back to Southfork to live but that no one seemed to want to move out and buy their own house unless they were feuding with another family member. No one wanted to own property of their own, or not breakfast with the entire extended family every day, or live closer to the city or whatever.

I think Kody longs to be Jock Ewing.

[Denize]

6 hours ago, surfgirl said:

If you're saying that Kodys Covid rules were BS then we are in agreement mainly because he used them to hide from his OG family. 

Kody & his manosphere were not the type to follow any government rules, which is why Gabe & the OG3 knew the Covid rules must have come from Robyn as an excuse for hiding out from his OG families.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Dibs said:

Clearly Kody and Robyn are among the many who were terrified and traumatized by the whole "panic approach" to Covid.  More accurately, who totally lost their minds over it, never to regain them.

I used to think Kody was petrified of Covid which is why he invented his "rules" but now I'm thinking it may have been Robyn that put him up to it and he realized that if he made the rules strict enough they would be a great way to avoid his family as most of them would never be able to live up to them.

[surfgirl]

20 hours ago, Dibs said:

I believe Fauci himself is on record as saying masks (other than N95) are ineffective against viruses, which is true, and that they just "made up" the social distancing concept.  Clearly Kody and Robyn are among the many who were terrified and traumatized by the whole "panic approach" to Covid.  More accurately, who totally lost their minds over it, never to regain them.

Over 1.2 million Americans died from Covid 19, and over 7 million worldwide died in the pandemic. That's not something to be cavalier about. Also, I loathe Kody BUT, if he got scared, then good. Maybe he will think twice before going out in public while obviously sick. In Asia people wear masks if they need to go out while being sick. Why? Because they care about others and don't want to spread their germs. They look at people who run around sick and unmasked as rude and disrespectful, and IMO rightly so. Masking does help, a lot, particularly when combined with common sense practices like hand washing and keeping distance. Why some folks can't handle that truth is beyond me. But I digress, this is about Kody. And while I have no issues with Kody following the CDC guidelines during lockdown and beyond, we all know he used them as a means to stay with the only wife and kids he wanted to be around, because they suck up to his ego and tell him what he wants to hear.

Edited October 18 by surfgirl

[LilyD]

Some of “his” rules were just sensible (never thought I would use Kody and sensible in one sentence but here we go). Others…. Not so much.  It was just convenient to keep others as far away as possible. I think we’re all in agreement on that.

What irked me, was him not sticking firmly to the rules when it suited him. The door was firmly locked for wives and kids, but not for the nanny and the handyman? (Who then brought covid straight into their home!)

[BAForever]

18 hours ago, monagatuna said:

Is this a common thing for people with adult kids? To expect them to sacrifice their own lives and fail to launch so you can have them nearby? 

Not for us @monagatuna. I want my young adult children to make their way in the world with careers and hopefully loving partners. If they chose to live close- great. If it's far away-great. We will visit, they will visit. We are connected by our pasts, nothing will break that. Kody is making up stuff as he goes along. 

[altopower]

27 minutes ago, BAForever said:

Kody is making up stuff as he goes along. 

Kody lives in his own world and always has. 

I was glad that Meri was able to get the release that she wanted to be permanently free of Kody in the eyes of the church. She took her vows 32 years ago seriously; Kody took the same vows at the same time but blew them off when they were no longer compatible with the way he wants to live his life. 

Kody said earlier (don't remember the season) that in polygamy, the husband can't ask the wives to leave; they have to decide that for themselves. But he is surprised, confused, and angry when they do exactly that. Even though he doesn't want to be married to them anymore, he can't stand that they're thwarting his idea of patriarchy, which changes on a whim.

This show is mind-twistingly stupid. Except for the kids and the OG3. Kody is a great example of someone to avoid at all costs.

[Granny58]

19 hours ago, monagatuna said:

Even if his OG kids still liked, trusted, or respected him, who wants to live with daddy and stepmommy when you have your own adult life, job, and possibly family of your own? I get that multigenerational housing is a thing. It's pretty scarce in modern US times, though, and trying to wrangle 13 bio children AND their spouses AND their kids into one large cult building is just not realistic. What about the kids' partners? Don't they have parents too? What about their career goals, their jobs, their friends, pets, and lives? Are all to be sacrificed at the altar of Kody's kidneys?

I legit have been trying to figure out lately what is the obsession with getting your adult kids to "come home." Partially because my own mother keeps mentioning this to me, and I'm wondering if it's a common thing among elder people to demand that their kids "come home." Look, I haven't lived where they live in decades, I couldn't navigate their city without GPS, it's not home to me.

Is this a common thing for people with adult kids? To expect them to sacrifice their own lives and fail to launch so you can have them nearby? 

I don't think it's a demand so much as a hope.  Your mom would LOVE for you to live closer but (hopefully) isn't demanding it.  Ditto with my mom, who has passed but it was definitely her wish.  

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, LilyD said:

Some of “his” rules were just sensible (never thought I would use Kody and sensible in one sentence but here we go). Others…. Not so much.  It was just convenient to keep others as far away as possible. I think we’re all in agreement on that.

What irked me, was him not sticking firmly to the rules when it suited him. The door was firmly locked for wives and kids, but not for the nanny and the handyman? (Who then brought covid straight into their home!)

I know his inconsistency always got me and I'm sure that wasn't lost on his kids.

I never understood why he couldn't meet with his kids somewhere outside. At one point during the pandemic a friend and I would meet in the park with our lunch and sit at a picnic table. I remember doing crazy things in the beginning like meeting in a parking lot with two cars side by side with windows open. Or wearing masks indoors and sitting somewhere with high ceilings and good ventilation like a typical Whole Foods eating area, or even at restaurant outdoor seating. I want to know what the BIG DEAL was! If I was able to do it with my friends why couldn't he? It was clearly an excuse to get him out of seeing his other wives and kids and I remember posting to that effect here in the threads.

BTW he was able to sit outside on the wives' porches to scream about knives in his kidneys so obviously he was OK with that. So again, his "rules" were just a steaming pile of BS designed to fool everyone as to his real motives. But nobody was dumb enough to fall for it.

[Denize]

6 hours ago, LilyD said:

What irked me, was him not sticking firmly to the rules when it suited him. The door was firmly locked for wives and kids, but not for the nanny and the handyman? (Who then brought covid straight into their home!)

All that, plus, as someone stuck in Canada when my family was in the US, we made regular use of the telephone and "saw" each other and had family reunions on Skype & Zoom. In fact, we spoke more often than pre-Covid!  Kody has no excuse for not keeping involved with his OG3 spawn in Flagstaff, Utah, Colorado & NC. He had no problem keeping in touch with his man friends in Oklahoma & elsewhere.

[applewood]

...

18 hours ago

  22 hours ago, applewood said:

Regarding Gabe, I thought the moving to Flagstaff was one of the saddest episode. As others said, if he stayed in LV he could have gotten a wrestling scholarship. If I recall, initially Janelle did stick up for her kids, saying that Hunter and Maddie really had a hard time with the move to Vegas and she didn't want to go through that again. But then she caved to Kody. I think it was later explained in an interview with Gwendolyn that the primary reason they moved to Flagstaff was because Dayton wanted to go to college there and Robyn didn't want him to move alone.

 

Do you remember what season this was?  

Do you mean the initial talk about selling the houses and moving? That was season 13 episode 4.

Or do you mean Gwendolyn's comments? That wasn't in an episode. I just read it online.

https://allaboutthetea.com/2022/11/29/gwendlyn-brown-confirms-real-reason-for-sister-wives-familys-move-to-flagstaff/

 

[ginger90]

23 hours ago, applewood said:

I think it was later explained in an interview with Gwendolyn that the primary reason they moved to Flagstaff was because Dayton wanted to go to college there

That wasn’t an interview, it was on her YouTube when she was commenting on episodes.

[CalicoKitty]

On 10/15/2024 at 9:23 AM, LotusFlower said:

Please.  This is just Kody’s current narrative to cover up his bruised ego after the three OG’s left him.  He has always loved being a polygamist and still does.  While I’m sure he loves Robyn, he’s miserable in his monogamous life, estranged from the majority of his family.  He misses the status, the attention, the big family, all of it.  
 

Kody definitely said that.  But you’re right - Janelle was against it, too.  I remember her saying that she “didn’t want to be separated from any of her kids.”  I thought it was a selfish POV, and I was disappointed. 

 

 

Didn't Janelle say something along the lines of he couldn't stay and finish his last year of high school because she has the "right to raise her son"?  That poor kid was devastated.  To me, she came across as only thinking of herself--possibly with pressure from Kody--and showed absolutely no concern for the feelings of her son.

[GeorgiaRai]

I can't imagine a circumstance where I would've moved out of state and left my teenage child behind to live with someone else for a year - even if the "someone else" was another sibling.  Lots of people criticize her for it, but I think I would've done the same.

[jschoolgirl]

21 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Anyone here besides me old enough to remember the tv show Dallas? All those Ewings living under one roof... It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized how odd that was; not just that all the married adults brought spouses back to Southfork to live but that no one seemed to want to move out and buy their own house unless they were feuding with another family member. No one wanted to own property of their own, or not breakfast with the entire extended family every day, or live closer to the city or whatever.

I think Kody longs to be Jock Ewing.

I am on season four of a Dallas rewatch, and I have thought of this.

6 hours ago, applewood said:

...

18 hours ago

  22 hours ago, applewood said:

Regarding Gabe, I thought the moving to Flagstaff was one of the saddest episode. As others said, if he stayed in LV he could have gotten a wrestling scholarship. If I recall, initially Janelle did stick up for her kids, saying that Hunter and Maddie really had a hard time with the move to Vegas and she didn't want to go through that again. But then she caved to Kody. I think it was later explained in an interview with Gwendolyn that the primary reason they moved to Flagstaff was because Dayton wanted to go to college there and Robyn didn't want him to move alone.

 

Do you remember what season this was?  

Do you mean the initial talk about selling the houses and moving? That was season 13 episode 4.

Or do you mean Gwendolyn's comments? That wasn't in an episode. I just read it online.

https://allaboutthetea.com/2022/11/29/gwendlyn-brown-confirms-real-reason-for-sister-wives-familys-move-to-flagstaff/

 

I really wonder how Day’un felt about it.

[MamaMax]

It occurs to me that Kody's so mad bc he thought he would be the prophet of his own little compound up on coyote pass. He wanted the big house, the whole family there WITH EVERYONE REVOLVING AROUND HIM. This is what appealed to him about polygamy, the idea of being the sun on his own solar system. The only elder, the (ahem) PATRIARCH. And he’s butt hurt because the women wanted something from him in return… I mean, how’s a man supposed to give equal time to 18 kids and 4 wives and then grand babies too?!? Oh yeah. He can’t. That’s why polygamy sucks. 

[LotusFlower]

5 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

 

 

Didn't Janelle say something along the lines of he couldn't stay and finish his last year of high school because she has the "right to raise her son"?  That poor kid was devastated.  To me, she came across as only thinking of herself--possibly with pressure from Kody--and showed absolutely no concern for the feelings of her son.

Right.  I think your memory is closer to how Janelle put it.  Maybe it’s water under the bridge now, but it seemed devastating at the time.

 

[Chris Knight]

On 10/15/2024 at 11:06 AM, barshi50 said:

That was Gabe. He wanted to stay in Vegas with Maddie and Caleb to finish school, but Kody wouldn't allow it. Gabe was heartbroken..

 

Gabe should have gone to Flagstaff for a week or so and then skipped back to Vegas. Kody would never have noticed. 

[Granny58]

21 hours ago, GeorgiaRai said:

I can't imagine a circumstance where I would've moved out of state and left my teenage child behind to live with someone else for a year - even if the "someone else" was another sibling.  Lots of people criticize her for it, but I think I would've done the same.

I would have done it for Gabe.  He's sensible and would be living with family.  But it's ok to disagree.

 

[Meow Mix]

20 hours ago, Granny58 said:

I would have done it for Gabe.  He's sensible and would be living with family.  But it's ok to disagree.

 

Or since it took so long for Janelle to sell her Vegas house, she could have stayed there and gone to Flagstaff later.  It really irked me because he earned that position as captain of the wrestling team and he would have been seen by college scouts and gotten a scholarship.  I hope NAU has worked out for him, but I thought Kody and Janelle really failed him.  And I have always suspected that Dayton chose NAU because he wanted some space from helicopter mommy.

[CalicoKitty]

On 10/19/2024 at 1:31 PM, Granny58 said:

I would have done it for Gabe.  He's sensible and would be living with family.  But it's ok to disagree.

 

As I remember, he was a very good student, was captain of the football team, and had a lot of friends and activities.  It came off as pure ego from Kody, and I was disappointed in Janelle's support of the decision.  I can understand why he was upset.  

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, CalicoKitty said:

was captain of the football team

It was wrestling.

[LotusFlower]

On 10/20/2024 at 1:16 PM, Meow Mix said:

And I have always suspected that Dayton chose NAU because he wanted some space from helicopter mommy.

The entire move to Flagstaff was because of Dayton going to school in Flagstaff.  

[Absolom]

I would wager Dayton did not expect that Robyn would relocate the entire family just to follow him.

[ginger90]

I have no idea what type of support Dayton requires. NAU has several programs and resources for students with autism. Of course other schools do also, but it could have been what attracted him to the school, along with wanting space. 

[Absolom]

That was part of the original discussion and that since it seems Dayton is capable of doing a lot of things on his own, Robyn was needlessly trying to keep him tied to her.

[Elizzikra]

44 minutes ago, Absolom said:

That was part of the original discussion and that since it seems Dayton is capable of doing a lot of things on his own, Robyn was needlessly trying to keep him tied to her.

I remember that it's gone around and around and around. I don't think we will ever know. I've never met Dayton so I have no idea what he is capable of doing and I'm not really willing to guess about his capabilities based on the little we see of his appearances on the show and whatever pops up on social media. I think that Robyn is capable of being unable to snip the apron strings but I also think that her primary responsibility is to care for her kids. I think that Meri, Janelle and Christine had a responsibility to their kids as well and if it wasn't best for their children to move to Flagstaff, then they should have stood up to Kody. They didn't. That's on them and it's on Kody for not balancing the needs of all his kids. It's not on Robyn.

[BAForever]

2 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

The entire move to Flagstaff was because of Dayton going to school in Flagstaff.  

We all suspected that,  and I think Gwen confirmed the suspicions. The move to Flag never made sense financially (which doesn't bother these bozos). Flagstaff is so much pricier than other locations in the mountain states or Southwest, plus it's not a huge community, less housing, jobs, etc than other cities. Now that's something I'd like to get the scoop on from one of the OG wives.

[MamaMax]

16 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I remember that it's gone around and around and around. I don't think we will ever know. I've never met Dayton so I have no idea what he is capable of doing and I'm not really willing to guess about his capabilities based on the little we see of his appearances on the show and whatever pops up on social media. I think that Robyn is capable of being unable to snip the apron strings but I also think that her primary responsibility is to care for her kids. I think that Meri, Janelle and Christine had a responsibility to their kids as well and if it wasn't best for their children to move to Flagstaff, then they should have stood up to Kody. They didn't. That's on them and it's on Kody for not balancing the needs of all his kids. It's not on Robyn.

I think her other kids behavior is also evidence that Robyn infantilizes them all. If she helicopters the neurotypical, I can imagine how she is with someone neurodivergent  

[LilyD]

While we do not know enough about Dayton’s autism to form a good opinion, I will say this:
People with ASD generally don’t deal well with unpredictable situations, lack of structure, a constant buzz and an ever changing dynamics. Dayton  was dragged across states multiple times, hasn’t lived in any trailer or house for longer than a few years, ended up in a huge family with a constant buzz, lack of structure and an ever changing dynamics. On top, film crews were constantly following them around for months at a time.
Dayton managed all this without professional help. He also went to a normal school and then completed two studies simultaneously. This leads me to believe that he is capable of a lot more than Robyn gives him credit for. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Dayton managed all this without professional help. He also went to a normal school and then completed two studies simultaneously. This leads me to believe that he is capable of a lot more than Robyn gives him credit for. 

We have no idea what sort of help he might have received. It's also possible that he succeeds academically and struggles in other areas. 

[Fosca]

Didn't he do a roadtrip on his own for a couple of weeks a while back?  

[altopower]

31 minutes ago, Fosca said:

Didn't he do a roadtrip on his own for a couple of weeks a while back?  

I would take any opportunity I could to run away from that crazy family. I hope he is doing well on his own away from them, and am proud of him for joining the other older "kids" in having a life off-screen.

[Denize]

On 10/23/2024 at 5:47 PM, Absolom said:

That was part of the original discussion and that since it seems Dayton is capable of doing a lot of things on his own, Robyn was needlessly trying to keep him tied to her.

Yes, he drove himself on a 4-day trip around Grand Canyon parks and I too thought he probably chose NAU for their spectrum resources and wanted to live in a dorm free from his oppressive family. Back when he did Talking Heads, his comments seemed very astute and objective.