S01.E18: Miss America

[Athena]

The Miss America Pageant…how is this still a thing?

They claim to give more scholarships to women than any other organization, and, unfortunately, they’re right.

To illustrate these problems, John Oliver stages his own pageant with the help of Kathy Griffin.

[Fremde Frau]

They may or may not be touching on Scotland again. From their Twitter:

Tonight's show will be full of exciting surprises if you've managed to avoid learning the result of Scotland's referendum on independence!

 
There was also this "spoiler":

@LastWeekTonight I'd like to report that @iamjohnoliver says many smart & hilarious things on the show. Oops, was that a #spoiler?

Just got done w/ the taping of @iamjohnoliver's @LastWeekTonight. Watch tonite to hear me guffaw, giggle & cheer. And a #secretguest!

[Lantern7]

Wow. Who knew you can look so good dragging the Miss America pageant through the mud? I feel bad for John, though, getting forced into a catwalk showdown with Giuseppe. Ask Anderson Cooper . . . Kathy Griffin is mean. Not as mean as Donald Trump looks, though. Trump-bashing never goes out of style.

[The Luvly Junkie]

I thought it was interesting to see the flaws of prioritizing the outer self of a woman through the guy's perspective. I just love Kathy Griffin and her daringly crazy table-turning humor. It was perfect to have her settle the whole body-demeaning issue without giving up the latter. But in reality, all I really cared about is just seeing Ollie-Scone "strutting his stuff". I've said it before; that Giuseppe guy got nothing on the real funny-man. I feel like it's a lifelong dream (and possibly) obsession to see any comedian try to do pageants and the Ollie-Scone/Giuseppe part took the cake, both cathartic and adorable on Ollie's part.

 

I'm still waiting for the day a different kind of pageant will trump others; maybe something more intellectual that is borderline between Science Fair, Mock Trial, and Varsity Quiz and Pop Culture-hyped? I've seen something like that but it's very local and unlikely to gain wide reception/audience network-wise. Speaking of Trump...

 

Is there any other company/business that Trump hasn't owned yet? Just seeing him getting slammed by Ollie, Jonny-bun and Colbert makes me pray Trump will nudge and face any of them on their respected shows (though my money's on Colbert but I'm gonna leave that discussion for some notable forums (wink-wink, stacey))

[peeayebee]

I am very impressed with all the investigating that the show did on the Miss America Pageant scholarship claims. That's real journalism.

 

Re Cuba: Isn't it true that the Cuban-American community in Florida is for the embargo? If so, then that's probably the reason that Presidents keep renewing the embargo, in order to keep their votes.

Edited September 22, 2014 by peeayebee

[attica]

The same people shrieking for the embargo (as peeaye says above) are the same who FedEx envelopes full of cash to their relatives still there.

 

It's really horrifying that the pennies the MAP provide in actual scholarship still put them at the top of that heap.

[MartinKSmith]

Fuck you, Giuseppe!

 

I enjoyed the brief look at the Scottish referendum. Disappointed that they didn't bring up the tweets to Sepp Blatter earlier this week.

 

The whole piece on Miss America was well done, I liked that John put it out there as something that had just confused/annoyed them so much that they had to get an answer, not that they necessarily cared (though they obviously do). The frustrating thing now comes from the fact that despite LWT laying out the facts about all this scholarship nonsense, nothing will likely come of it - a large reason for that being that they're just 'a comedy show on HBO'. 

[VCRTracking]

I was also impressed by that contestant's answer to the ISIS question so quickly!

[trow125]

I was wondering if the Miss America Organization would try to refute LWT's claims -- I couldn't find anything, but do note with some amount of glee that they have 36.6K Twitter followers vs. LWT's 169K. My guess is that they'll just keep quiet & hope nobody notices. How cool that they actually did some investigative journalism regarding this accepted-at-face-value "claim."

 

Not sure how many John Oliver fans are also Kathy Griffin fans, but I SQUEE'd out loud when Kathy showed up! Love her!!

[Fremde Frau]

I loved that segment. The way he talked about their week gave me this image of them as terriers digging and digging at a hole, knowing the prey is down there somewhere and not giving up, nope, not even for dinner. The dismissal of Trump and criticism of the MAP's bullshit claims about scholarships were so well done.

 

The only thing that bugged me a little was the bit about "ridiculously complex questions." Yes, they are contestants in a pageant that is about their beauty and marketability, but the initial joke sort of played on the old trope that (pretty) girls can't be expected to worry their pretty little heads about such weighty issues. Why is it "crazy" to ask these young women questions like the ones he showed? As opposed to what? Is it really "ridiculously complex" to have an opinion about government policies, privacy, torture, or crises around the world? Like he said, it's a little easier to mock the contestants for saying dumb things, and I realize that he was setting up the larger theme about scholarships, but it was still leaning on that same old trope. The bit with the "No" commercial last week hit that note better, I thought, by deconstructing it. I like that he included the answer to the ISIS question, admitted that it was good, and went on to point out that many of the contestants are impressive for more than their looks. Maybe I'm reaching... Maybe his amazement was just that any young American citizen of undefined education would be able to articulate a solid and globally-aware answer to a big issue in such a short amount of time.

 

That said, the third question by Ian Ziering was convoluted. (It was almost like one of Jon's scenic-route questions. Heh.)

 

Disclaimer: I don't watch the MAP, so I don't know if these questions were representative or if he chose mild examples.

[attica]

I'd be willing to bet Ziering had no idea about what he was asking. I imagine him backstage rehearsing his line readings.

[Fremde Frau]

Oh, I agree. At least Jon knows what he's asking... even if his interviewee can't always follow Jon's train of thought. Hee.

 

(Is the purpose of those questions simply to stump the contestants? I have no context outside of what John showed us.)

[peeayebee]

The only thing that bugged me a little was the bit about "ridiculously complex questions." Yes, they are contestants in a pageant that is about their beauty and marketability, but the initial joke sort of played on the old trope that (pretty) girls can't be expected to worry their pretty little heads about such weighty issues. 

I think an important part about the segment was that the contestants are given 20 seconds to answer these complex questions.

[Fremde Frau]

I felt that they emphasized the nature of the questions more so than the time limit, but, like I said, I may be reading it wrong.

[dusang]

The only thing that bugged me a little was the bit about "ridiculously complex questions." Yes, they are contestants in a pageant that is about their beauty and marketability, but the initial joke sort of played on the old trope that (pretty) girls can't be expected to worry their pretty little heads about such weighty issues. Why is it "crazy" to ask these young women questions like the ones he showed? As opposed to what? Is it really "ridiculously complex" to have an opinion about government policies, privacy, torture, or crises around the world? Like he said, it's a little easier to mock the contestants for saying dumb things, and I realize that he was setting up the larger theme about scholarships, but it was still leaning on that same old trope. The bit with the "No" commercial last week hit that note better, I thought, by deconstructing it. I like that he included the answer to the ISIS question, admitted that it was good, and went on to point out that many of the contestants are impressive for more than their looks. Maybe I'm reaching... Maybe his amazement was just that any young American citizen of undefined education would be able to articulate a solid and globally-aware answer to a big issue in such a short amount of time.

 

In the Last Week Tonight Pageant the first contestant summed up the point that, regardless of its scholarship claims, the fact that the contestants are given only 20 seconds to answer the questions only highlights the superficiality of the competition.  So the "overly complex question" segment just set up the grand punchline that the entire pageant is an anachronistic exercise in judging women on their appearance and all the claims about the "scholarship" aspect are essentially bullshit.

 

Also, as John pointed out, those questions are so unduly complex and politically loaded that President Obama can barely give a coherent answer with more time and a script, so including them in MAP seems more so that they can point to the "hard questions asked" without giving a flying fadoo as to the quality of the answer.

 

(I was impressed that her answer was reasonable, balanced, and coherent.  However, no matter how well informed you are, in 20 seconds you're just going to skim the surface of the issues being raised.)

Edited September 22, 2014 by dusang

[trow125]

Holy cow, it is NOT a good day for the Miss America Organization.

From Jezebel.com: "Miss America Was Kicked Out of Her Sorority for Abusive Hazing"

[NextIteration]

Oh my on the hazing!  I appreciated the whole segment because somewhere in my mind I had a belief that the MAP pageant system was somewhat respectable because of the scholarship aspect and the talent aspect as well.  I'm happy to be disabused of that wrong-headed notion.

[possibilities]

I thought Guiseppe's outfit wasn't nearly humiliating enough, compared to what the Miss America contestants have to wear.

Edited September 23, 2014 by possibilities

[Fremde Frau]

That sounds like just their strategy, dusang; they seem to want people to mistake their flash for substance. I wasn't disparaging the show's coverage of it or the general criticism of the MAP superficiality. That specific joke being aimed initially in the general direction of the contestants just fell flat for me, but it was probably unfairly exacerbated by having--just an hour or so prior to watching that segment--listened to a male scientist make a similar argument entirely without irony on the presence of female scientists in his field of study (behavioral neuroscience). It had my back up.

 

Sorry, John.

[The Luvly Junkie]

I thought Guiseppe's outfit wasn't nearly humiliating enough, compared to what the Miss American contestants have to wear.

       ... what Fremde Frau said. I also want back up the show's strategy by saying that the Giuseppe's outfit would have been more humiliating for Ollie-Scone, though I wish he did. I guess he'll have to save that look for some other time. (sigh)

[trow125]

I assumed they had Giuseppe in a suit (albeit one with no shirt!) since he and Ollie were directly "competing." I guess if there had been skimpy swimwear involved, poor John would have needed to don a Speedo as well. Much as I love the man I don't think anybody wants to see that.

 

I do love that LWT continues to provide some eye candy for the ladies (following the Diet Coke model from a few weeks ago). I like to think that somebody at LWT has a male-model casting agency on speed-dial. (BTW, that truly horrifying penis close-up from one of their early shows was the opposite of eye candy -- eye poison maybe!)

[Athena]

The investigative journalism was great. i also liked the little variety they do with the show. They covered Cuba, NZ politics, and Scotland as well. 

 

I do love that LWT continues to provide some eye candy for the ladies (following the Diet Coke model from a few weeks ago). I like to think that somebody at LWT has a male-model casting agency on speed-dial. 

 

I forgot about the Diet Coke guy until now and wow, he was so much better than Giuseppe. 

[ALenore]

The Miss America Pageant did respond to John:

John Oliver reaffirmed that the Miss America Organization (MAO) is the largest scholarship organization for women when he stated the number of scholarship dollars claimed "…is more than any other women-only scholarship we could find."
 
We highlight the impressive, generous $45 million in scholarships made available in an effort to honor every one of our academic partners nationwide who make available cash and in-kind financial opportunities to the MAO and young women who participate in the program. Each year, more than 8,000 young women compete for scholarships through the volunteer, grassroots-driven Miss America pageant system in more than 950 local, state, and national competitions. These scholarships are awarded not just to winners of each pageant but to runners-up and participants.
 
As with any scholarship, the full amount awarded may not always be used as recipients’ plans change or evolve. The Miss America Organization works every day to administer these scholarships to young women across the country and encourages our participants to utilize these scholarships provided by colleges and universities nationally who partner to fund education.
 
The Miss America Organization is dedicated to improving the opportunities available to our program participants and remaining at the forefront of providing opportunities to women.

 

[attica]

Ah, the ol' "It's not our fault if these stupid women don't spend our money that we make "available" in arcane and mathematically obtuse ways!" defense. Like the Sicilian Opening in chess!

 

I think all the Vaseline they all use on their teeth has been absorbed into their bloodstreams, contaminating their minds.

[dusang]

Okay, I'm in a bit of a crazed dilemma here.

 

On the one hand, it is archaic and offensive.  By valuing women more for their appearance than for the content of their character MAP/O undermines the amazing achievements of their own contestants.  It's obscene and ridiculous and I do not support it.

 

On the other hand, as John said, they are the largest organization providing scholarships to women. If they had just stuck to their actual dollars awarded figure that ranking would not be in question, at all.

 

So, although I'm kind of appalled by the whole thing I still feel the need to defend them on the scholarship issue.  Yes, they shot themselves in the foot by overstating the total (although, from a fundraising and business development perspective there is an argument to be made to support the "effort to honor every one of our academic partners nationwide who make available cash and in-kind financial opportunities" claim), at the end of the day they put their money where their mouth is.

 

However, as exemplified by the Last Week Tonight Pageant the entire thing is still gross, definitively patriarchal, and vaguely misogynistic.

[izabella]

Bikinis and butt glue undermine any attempt to portray MAP as anything but a beauty contest.  The money these women spend on gowns and shoes and make-up and hair extensions and butt glue would likely pay for their college educations without having to glue their bikinis to their butts.

 

If they only actually give away less than $500k, then each of the 50 women would get $10K if they just gave the money out instead of requiring bikinis and gown competitions.

[ganesh]

Re Cuba: Isn't it true that the Cuban-American community in Florida is for the embargo? If so, then that's probably the reason that Presidents keep renewing the embargo, in order to keep their votes.

 

PBS was going a piece on the FL governor race and said that Cuban-Americans are overwhelmingly conservative, so I'd bet they'd be for the embargo. Say what you want about Obama, but he carried FL twice. He had to have gotten a significant swath of really different demos to vote for him. 

 

The only thing that bugged me a little was the bit about "ridiculously complex questions." Yes, they are contestants in a pageant that is about their beauty and marketability, but the initial joke sort of played on the old trope that (pretty) girls can't be expected to worry their pretty little heads about such weighty issues.

I think an important part about the segment was that the contestants are given 20 seconds to answer these complex questions.

Bikinis and butt glue undermine any attempt to portray MAP as anything but a beauty contest.  The money these women spend on gowns and shoes and make-up and hair extensions and butt glue would likely pay for their college educations without having to glue their bikinis to their butts.

 

If they were really serious, they'd end the bikini competition and open up the 'policy' portion. Until then, it's just a beauty contest. 

 

Ah, the ol' "It's not our fault if these stupid women don't spend our money that we make "available" in arcane and mathematically obtuse ways!" defense. Like the Sicilian Opening in chess!

 

A chess joke takes *work*. 

[fastiller]

I think all the Vaseline they all use on their teeth has been absorbed into their bloodstreams, contaminating their minds.

Nah, it's not the Vaseline, it's the spray-on butt glue: they've inhaled it too much.

[dusang]

Bikinis and butt glue undermine any attempt to portray MAP as anything but a beauty contest.  The money these women spend on gowns and shoes and make-up and hair extensions and butt glue would likely pay for their college educations without having to glue their bikinis to their butts.

 

If they only actually give away less than $500k, then each of the 50 women would get $10K if they just gave the money out instead of requiring bikinis and gown competitions.

 

Agreed, it is just a beauty contest... making its standing as the leading organization providing scholarships to women not just surprising but appalling.

 

I think all the Vaseline they all use on their teeth has been absorbed into their bloodstreams, contaminating their minds.

 

Totally random fact: the dude who invented* Vaseline would experiment on himself to demonstrate Vaseline's curative properties, including burning himself in a variety of ways and observing the healing rate with and without Vaseline.  He was also convinced that Vaseline was good for your overall health and ate a tablespoon of it daily.  He lived to over 90.

 

*By "invented" I mean "observed the usefulness of the petroleum jelly residue that developed on oil rigs and began marketing it outside the oil-rigging community."

Edited September 23, 2014 by dusang

[dcalley]

The three other scholarships for women mentioned on the show are

Society for Women Engineers

Patsy Takemoto Mink Education Foundation

Jeannette Rankin Women's Scholarship Fund

[trow125]

I would amend the Miss America Pageant statement to, "We are the largest provider of scholarships to thin, conventionally attractive women." When I was in high school it would never have occurred to me to apply for a scholarship from them because it would have meant losing 20 pounds, getting veneers, and mastering the art of butt glue. Plus the whole "I swear I've never been pregnant" seems code for "we would greatly prefer virgins, but we realize we can't come right out and say that."

[attica]

Or, you know: Sluts Need Not Apply.

[dusang]

Plus the whole "I swear I've never been pregnant" seems code for "we would greatly prefer virgins, but we realize we can't come right out and say that."

 

I read it more as a veiled "We're anti-choice and you better be too."

 

I don't know how to feel about the contestants because they (generally speaking) are pretty high achieving women.  It's too bad that they put themselves forward to be reduced to a hot bod.

Edited September 23, 2014 by dusang

[Hanahope]

John was hilarious is stating reasons why Scottish votes were not counted.

 

Are the Jetson’s still on TV?  I mean, will any of the younger generations even get that reference in another 10-20 years?

 

Cuba, yeah.  Seriously why is this still a problem?  How can we embargo Cuba and not North Korea? I guess its because we have all the Cubans in Florida and not so many North Koreans collectively in any homogenous one-state group.

 

Great take down of Miss America and its claim of “providing” (i.e. making available) the scholarship money, even though such money, or even a significant portion thereof, is never actually awarded to women.  But awfully sad that other more academic scholarship funds still can’t exceed that amount.

 

Not that I've watched Miss America in decades, but I do remember as a child that they used to wear one-piece swimsuits.  I wonder how many women are now excluded because with bikinis, you can't hide the belly-button piercing or a hip/low back tattoo.

[Totale]

If they only actually give away less than $500k, then each of the 50 women would get $10K if they just gave the money out instead of requiring bikinis and gown competitions.

 

But without the competitions (and the entrance fees, state licensing fees and "promotional consideration" on the broadcasts), there's no $500K to give away. It's not like they're endowed.

[ghostig]

I belong to an organization called PEO International.  Last year we distributed about $6 million in scholarships to women exclusively.  It is a membership organization, but you don't have to be a member to receive or contribute to a scholarship.  Looks like PEO is the largest organization giving scholarships to women.

[izabella]

But without the competitions (and the entrance fees, state licensing fees and "promotional consideration" on the broadcasts), there's no $500K to give away. It's not like they're endowed.

 

I understand what you're saying, and you're absolutely right.  No MAP, no scholarships.  No MAP at all would be fine with me.   Those schools whose scholarships are "provided" by MAP but not actually awarded could provide their scholarships to actual applicants instead.

 

Or, since it appears that MAP has another $44.5M in unused scholarships annually that they do not give to anyone, they could give those to non-contestants.  It would make me feel better about MAP if they did, and many non-beauties would also appreciate MAP putting truth to their claims of promoting education over boobs & butts.

 

If MAP gave those unused scholarships away, too, little girls would still grow up wanting to be beauty pageant winners. The contestants aren't really doing it for the scholarships, are they?  Most of them are already in school or have completed college.  MAP could go on, but with a real focus on education for girls and women.

Edited September 24, 2014 by izabella

[ganesh]

The only thing about comparing North Korea and Cuba is that NK does have nukes and is a friend of China. So it does involve a approach. The Cuba embargo seems silly now. I don't think using NK is apt.

[iMonrey]

The only thing that bugged me a little was the bit about "ridiculously complex questions." Yes, they are contestants in a pageant that is about their beauty and marketability, but the initial joke sort of played on the old trope that (pretty) girls can't be expected to worry their pretty little heads about such weighty issues. Why is it "crazy" to ask these young women questions like the ones he showed?

 

I would argue that since Miss America spends a year making personal appearances it's important to know she can think on her feet and isn't a total dummy when it comes to current events. 

 

There's also the fact that Miss America has tried desperately to distance itself from being a "beauty pageant" for years, to the extent that each contestant had to have some kind of social platform, and that the the swimsuit competition was de-emphasized increasingly until the program was eventually cancelled from network TV for several years, appearing on second rate cable networks like Country Music Television. They had to reinstate the swimsuit competition and de-emphasize social platforms just to get back on network TV. Ironically, it's in Miss America's contract that she can never appear publicly in a swimsuit!

 

Scholarship shenanigans aside, what I wish they'd focused on more was the sponsorship money that propels this machine, because that's where the bigger "scandal" is, IMO. Each contestant has to line up sponsors to donate money to the organization, and the reason you tend to see the same states every year in the finals is because those states regularly bring more sponsorship money to the national organization. There's a reason you hardly ever see Miss Vermont, Miss New Hampshire, Miss Utah or Miss Rhode Island in the top 10. It's always Texas, California, Florida, New York, and a bunch of Southern States where beauty pageants are big business and where they're most likely to draw ratings.

[dusang]

There's also the fact that Miss America has tried desperately to distance itself from being a "beauty pageant" for years, to the extent that each contestant had to have some kind of social platform, and that the the swimsuit competition was de-emphasized increasingly until the program was eventually cancelled from network TV for several years, appearing on second rate cable networks like Country Music Television. They had to reinstate the swimsuit competition and de-emphasize social platforms just to get back on network TV. Ironically, it's in Miss America's contract that she can never appear publicly in a swimsuit!

 

Scholarship shenanigans aside, what I wish they'd focused on more was the sponsorship money that propels this machine, because that's where the bigger "scandal" is, IMO. Each contestant has to line up sponsors to donate money to the organization, and the reason you tend to see the same states every year in the finals is because those states regularly bring more sponsorship money to the national organization. There's a reason you hardly ever see Miss Vermont, Miss New Hampshire, Miss Utah or Miss Rhode Island in the top 10. It's always Texas, California, Florida, New York, and a bunch of Southern States where beauty pageants are big business and where they're most likely to draw ratings.

 

Now that is interesting.

[trow125]

This warms my heart:

John Oliver’s takedown of Miss America boosts donations to women’s scholarships

[whack-a-mole]

Massachusetts does get some time there because that's where they go if they can't make the grade in Florida. It's a planned thing.

[larapu2000]

As someone that was involved in a "beauty pageant" when I was 17, I found this fascinating, sad, and hilarious on so many levels.  I participated in a pageant where the interview was 50% of your total score, with evening gown, onstage Q&A, and "business attire" taking up the rest.  That's right, business attire.  No swimsuit!  Yet, even without the swimsuit, you are still modeling, doing silly turns (that I practiced for almost 2 months in heels), and answering a generally silly question.  The scoring for evening gown was points for poise, etc, but really, it was all "how good does she look in that dress?"  Now, the pageant I was in was a LOT of 4-H girls (Miss Indiana State Fair), and I will say that I had to attend a lot of other pageants as a guest queen and the prettiest girl didn't always win, in fact, a lot of times a plain girl with a lot of spunk, verve, and wit would win out, but and large, the interesting girl was 1st Runner Up.  As if the judges KNEW she was awesome, but just couldn't bring themselves to putting a tiara on less than "Seventeen" face. 

 

So, clearly, I had a fairly healthy(er) pageant experience compared to one with women in bathing suits, but even then, it skews so much of yourself.  You get picked apart and told things like, "You're short, you should always be in 4" heels" or that you have "linebacker shoulders" or anything else of that nature, versus, "sweetheart necklines flatter your figure more."  Everything is placed in a teetering sense...like if you don't wear those 4" heels, there's no way the judges will ever be able to understand why Teddy Roosevelt is your hero.  That everything has to be perfectly in place in order to have any kind of success.  It permeates the way you think, like it used to take me 2 hours to get ready for a job interview.  2 hours!  Then I found out that ugly people without perfectly tailored suits somehow get hired AND thrive, because it is the substance of your character and work that actually matter.

 

The most dangerous thing about the Miss America pageants is that she is held up as a role model because her looks won her a platform on social issues, versus a role model like Hillary Clinton, where her brain was the most impressive and important part of her success.  If Miss America is supposed to be a scholarship pageant, then put the girls on stage in t-shirts with their alma mater with jeans and flats.  THAT'S the reality of what a college girl looks like.  

 

I didn't realize I had so much latent bitterness about my pageant experience.  LOL.  But I'm glad that what the show focused on was the scholarship claim, and how you don't need to put on a bathing suit in order to have access to a scholarship fund for women.

[OneWhoLurks]

Today [september 4, 2015] the Atlantic City-based Miss America Organization — which is getting ready for the 2016 competition, with preliminary competition at Boardwalk Hall beginning on Sept. 8 — announced the initial results of a nine-month review of its scholarship program, conducted by Stezala Consulting. MAO says the review is "still ongoing."

 

As part of a statement from the organization (read the full text here), Miss America CEO Sam Haskell III promised to offer "full transparency" about its program going forward.

 

"In 2014, the Miss America Organization and its 52 state organizations awarded nearly $6 million in combined cash and in-kind tuition waiver scholarships to women across the country," the organization's statement reads.

 

And it addresses the disconnect that Oliver reported in the days following the 2015 pageant last year.

 

"In previous years, the organization maintained that it made available $45 million in scholarships annually," the statement said. "While accurate, this figure did not convey the actual acceptance and utilization of scholarships, especially in the form of in-kind tuition waivers."

 

 

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/09/following_john_oliver_critique_miss_america_shares.html

[roamyn]

I saw this, and came to post the same, onewholurks.

[dusang]

In other news: Miss America apologizes to Vanessa Williams.