S46 Ep. 13 Finale/Aftershow

[LadyChatts]

Thread for the 3 hour finale and after show of S46.

[Carey]

Congrats to Kenzie.  Deserving or not, someone had to win the season.  But a couple of things, the finale could've been better with Charlie knocking out Q, and it was made better with the move to Season 47

[LadyChatts]

I don’t hate Kenzie’s victory, but I really wanted it to be Charlie.  I just think he deserved it more, as I thought he was more of a strategic player, and I’m curious if Maria was being a bitter cakes in Ponderosa and trashed his game to the jury.  They also need to stop the immediate after-show and give the finalists a chance to process what happened, because I was bummed seeing Charlie looking so sad.  I hope he comes back someday and gets another chance.  When he mentioned that his moves have been in the shadows, I think that was foreshadowing to him losing.  Being tied to Maria probably didn’t help, either, since his moves can easily be tied to hers and the jury may have questioned what he did that was just his.  But you’ll never convince me Maria didn’t vote for him because she was bitter he got her first.  I will say that I really disliked both Charlie and Kenzie in the beginning and this would have been my worst nightmare then, but I came around to really liking both of them. 

Overall, this season has been something.  I don’t know if it’s been the best new era season, but it’s far from the worst.  It had its ups and downs, especially the pre-merge portion, but after the merge I think it got good.  It set the wrong kind of records (IIRC 6 people went home with an idol in their pocket).  Q seemed to forget that being on the jury meant he was out of the game and it wasn’t supposed to be about him anymore.  I enjoyed the bickering between him, Tiffany, and Kenzie in the FTC.  Liz I was actually rooting for her to make the final 3 because I think she would have had the worst reality check in the world.  She might have been the first person in history to just stomp out of TC because no one was giving her the credit she thought she deserved.  Truly a legend in her own mind, but I almost enjoyed her antics.  And at least she was a little bitter on her way out.  I did enjoy her getting mad at Charlie for trying to help Kenzie in the fire-making challenge when Liz had no problems helping Kenzie in the IC to beat Maria.  I also thought it was somewhat hilarious that Ben, the most irrelevant person this season, won the IC that matters most and got to decide everyone’s fate.  I think Liz was really shocked he was going to put her in fire.  I’m glad he didn’t even waver on that and instead had trouble deciding between Charlie and Kenzie, who were obviously bigger threats to take to the end.  Ben probably kissed 2nd place good-bye not taking Liz.

[KeithJ]

Man.  Charlie looked absolutely crushed that he lost.  When Ben picked him I thought for sure he was going to win.  
Looking back at it, if I was Charlie, I’d be absolutely pissed that three people (Soda, Q, and Maria) changed their votes to Kenzie because of her “story” and not necessarily her game

Edited May 23 by KeithJ

[LadyChatts]

2 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

Man.  Charlie looked absolutely crushed that he lost.  When Ben picked him I thought for sure he was going to win.  
Looking back at it, if I was Charlie, I’d be absolutely pissed that three people (Soda, Q, and Maria) changed their votes to Kenzie because of her “story” and not necessarily her game

I hated Q's question and was surprised he of all people would ask something like that.  Personally I don't think Maria was ever going to vote for him because she was bitter, but she needed an excuse.

[Rodney]

Kenzie had as perfect of Final Tribal Council as you could possibly have, and Charlie, from what we saw, just didn’t give enough concrete examples about a game that was intentionally under the radar.  And the few examples that he did give, he couldn't separate them enough from Maria.  That’s on him.

5 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

I hated Q's question and was surprised he of all people would ask something like that.  Personally I don't think Maria was ever going to vote for him because she was bitter, but she needed an excuse.

In fairness, Kenzie's story was similar to Maria's, so I can kind of see that resonating with her more.  No question that she was bitter toward Charlie, but it doesn't have to not go hand-in-hand with her liking Kenzie's story.

13 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

They also need to stop the immediate after-show and give the finalists a chance to process what happened, because I was bummed seeing Charlie looking so sad.

Guess I have a heart of stone, because I loved seeing him disappointed.  He thought that he'd had it in the bag, clearly, and then found out that he didn't.  And UO, but I feel like I'm the only person here who didn't really like Charlie that much, anyway.

But he seemed to get better, anyway, as the aftershow went along, so clearly he wasn't downtrodden for that long.

13 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

Overall, this season has been something.  I don’t know if it’s been the best new era season, but it’s far from the worst.

42 will always be the best for me.  But nothing will EVER beat 43 for the worst.  Now, that was the pits.

Edited May 23 by Rodney

[Brown44]

Charlie should have won but I now understand why Kenzie won. 

[Carey]

3 minutes ago, Rodney said:

42 will always be the best for me.  But nothing will EVER beat 43 for the worst.  Now, that was the pits.

Agree to disagree.  Respect the opinions which we are all entitled to.  For me, 11 times out of ten, I'm ranking 46 before 43.  The biggest reason is those folks, to some extent, actually made an effort to survive and play the game down the stretch.

[Valerie]

I need a cigarette. DAMN that was good. I was spoiled by some fucktard on YouTube last night but even during fire making I was nervous that maybe they were just tricking me.

I've disliked Maria since her first confessional. She's a bully and she refuses to own it. And then she betrayed Charlie and you know it's because she was bitter he didn't choose her for the family letters reward. 

I was so happy that Ben won final immunity, even if it didn't make a difference to how he went in front of the jury, I know how much it meant to him to have that tangible reward for how much he's overcome.

[Rodney]

7 minutes ago, Carey said:

Agree to disagree.  Respect the opinions which we are all entitled to.

All due respect, I was respecting them.  Just saying where I stood, is all.

[LadyChatts]

15 minutes ago, Rodney said:

Guess I have a heart of stone, because I loved seeing him disappointed.  He thought that he'd had it in the bag, clearly, and then found out that he didn't.  And UO, but I feel like I'm the only person here who didn't really like Charlie that much, anyway.

But he seemed to get better, anyway, as the aftershow went along, so clearly he wasn't downtrodden for that long.

I would say it isn't just Charlie, but S43 with Cassidy and Owen, S44 with Carolyn (although in the case of Owen and Carolyn I don't know if they really believed they were winning-I think Owen was just in shock at Gabler's victory and Carolyn just had her nerves get the best of her in the end).  But Jeff's so much about the raw emotions and moments, and I think he's foaming at the mouth hoping someone finally has a major breakdown at their loss and tells the jury off.  Sooner or later I think that day is coming.  I do think Charlie thought he had it in the bag, and I can't say I'd blame him. 

15 minutes ago, Rodney said:

42 will always be the best for me.  But nothing will EVER beat 43 for the worst.  Now, that was the pits.

43 is definitely the worst of the new era with 41 just above it, imo.  Part of my problem with 41 is it's just forgettable.  I mean I had to look up to see who finished 2nd.  I do blame the year-long break we had from COVID, and the fact that we were entering a new era of gameplay, plus the editing (I was always under the impression production didn't like that season much).  Of course, rumor had it they didn't like S43, either.  42 and 45, despite my issues with the Reba alliance seemingly getting so many lucky breaks to keep their alliance intact, are my favorites, with 46 and 44 right behind them.

Edited May 23 by LadyChatts

[realitytvfan1017]

I’m happy for Kenzie. I could see a case for her winning but I do think Charlie  deserved it more than her. I was disappointed that Maria didn’t vote for Charlie. I also think Ben should have taken Liz directly to F3. I did t get how he saw her as a threat. I do hope Ben wins the Sia award.

30 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

I don’t hate Kenzie’s victory, but I really wanted it to be Charlie.  I just think he deserved it more, as I thought he was more of a strategic player, and I’m curious if Maria was being a bitter cakes in Ponderosa and trashed his game to the jury.  They also need to stop the immediate after-show and give the finalists a chance to process what happened, because I was bummed seeing Charlie looking so sad.  I hope he comes back someday and gets another chance.  When he mentioned that his moves have been in the shadows, I think that was foreshadowing to him losing.  Being tied to Maria probably didn’t help, either, since his moves can easily be tied to hers and the jury may have questioned what he did that was just his.  But you’ll never convince me Maria didn’t vote for him because she was bitter he got her first.  I will say that I really disliked both Charlie and Kenzie in the beginning and this would have been my worst nightmare then, but I came around to really liking both of them. 

Overall, this season has been something.  I don’t know if it’s been the best new era season, but it’s far from the worst.  It had its ups and downs, especially the pre-merge portion, but after the merge I think it got good.  It set the wrong kind of records (IIRC 6 people went home with an idol in their pocket).  Q seemed to forget that being on the jury meant he was out of the game and it wasn’t supposed to be about him anymore.  I enjoyed the bickering between him, Tiffany, and Kenzie in the FTC.  Liz I was actually rooting for her to make the final 3 because I think she would have had the worst reality check in the world.  She might have been the first person in history to just stomp out of TC because no one was giving her the credit she thought she deserved.  Truly a legend in her own mind, but I almost enjoyed her antics.  And at least she was a little bitter on her way out.  I did enjoy her getting mad at Charlie for trying to help Kenzie in the fire-making challenge when Liz had no problems helping Kenzie in the IC to beat Maria.  I also thought it was somewhat hilarious that Ben, the most irrelevant person this season, won the IC that matters most and got to decide everyone’s fate.  I think Liz was really shocked he was going to put her in fire.  I’m glad he didn’t even waver on that and instead had trouble deciding between Charlie and Kenzie, who were obviously bigger threats to take to the end.  Ben probably kissed 2nd place good-bye not taking Liz.

I agree about how Maria probably felt about Charlie in the end.  I think he explained his case better than Kenzie who said she was pulled in for the votes but didn’t orchestrate them. Ben definitely should have taken Liz to the end with him and not in fire , he definitely would have gotten 2nd place and i agree about Liz getting a reality check.

[realitytvfan1017]

20 minutes ago, Rodney said:

Kenzie had as perfect of Final Tribal Council as you could possibly have, and Charlie, from what we saw, just didn’t give enough concrete examples about a game that was intentionally under the radar.  And the few examples that he did give, he couldn't separate them enough from Maria.  That’s on him.

In fairness, Kenzie's story was similar to Maria's, so I can kind of see that resonating with her more.  No question that she was bitter toward Charlie, but it doesn't have to not go hand-in-hand with her liking Kenzie's story.

Guess I have a heart of stone, because I loved seeing him disappointed.  He thought that he'd had it in the bag, clearly, and then found out that he didn't.  And UO, but I feel like I'm the only person here who didn't really like Charlie that much, anyway.

But he seemed to get better, anyway, as the aftershow went along, so clearly he wasn't downtrodden for that long.

42 will always be the best for me.  But nothing will EVER beat 43 for the worst.  Now, that was the pits.

I disagree with a lot of your comments here.

[Carey]

6 minutes ago, Rodney said:

All due respect, I was respecting them.  Just saying where I stood, is all.

Understood.  For the record, I should have posted differently there.  I was talking about myself, not you.  I meant to say that "I respect one's opinions" while disagreeing with something said or posted.   I had no problem with anything said.

FWIW, I'm in the minority between Seasons 43 & 46, I think.  The winner in 2022 was just...well, we know.  What was vexatious as mentioned was that a saving item in the form of a HII was just about given to a fortunate player.  It's one thing to go home after coming into TC with it, but I was not thrilled at all how, people just sat there week after week after week and did nothing.  At least pass it along or go big.  To add insult to injury, while I'll probably laugh at Charlie's emotions later on, it's not that great of a look if he's more livid than those that got kicked out when their survival was (once) in the palm of the hand

[Lantern7]

*sigh* I might be done with the show. I wound up missing a good chunk of the episode that involved Maria's boot, and it'll take a little effort for me to seek out what I didn't see. Given this "new era," I have to wonder why I'm still watching. Snarking is fun and all, but I can't see Survivor going back to the days of relevancy.

I reckon Kenzie deserved the win for putting up with the likes of Jelinsky, Bhanu and Q. Charlie looked like he was crushed in the aftermath. Sadly, I don't think we'll be going back to live reunions. Fuck it, CBS could record reunions and air them the week after the finale airs, same as what MTV does with The Challenge . . . but I know they won't.

Kenzie's win doesn't merit asterisks, but there is the lingering "What If" of what could have happened had one of the four boobs had played their idols . . . or if Maria had found the idol.

One positive was the final challenge, where it looked as if the "Dream Team" decided not to phone things in for once. Other than that, just a big ball of "meh" rolled up in the span of three hours. And the teaser for S47 wasn't a huge enticement to watch. Personally, it mkaes me upset to know that the far superior The Amazing Race won't have their next season released until Winter 2025.

May this be the last we see of Liz. We saw far worse this season, and I'm sure she's a delight in "real life," but she was just too strange to have been cast. Naturally, Probst will probably insist on finding more as "unique" as her. Also, he'll probably keep interchanging "seven" with "several."

[North of Eden]

What Liz did was without a doubt some of the dirtiest if not the dirtiest pool ever played on SURVIVOR. A rule change needs to be enacted immediately to outlaw anything like that travesty happening again. And to think I spent the whole TAR season bitching about all the helping going on there when this literally ended up effecting the winner of the season.

Don't get me wrong of the three I was hoping Kenzie would win but I doubt if she'd have been there is Liz hadn't engaged in that outrageous stunt. Plus the woman must be clinically insane if she truly believes what she told the final four that SHE would have won....not even in 1000 parallel universes.

Speaking of Liz-legend has it she's still out there trying to get a flame going.

Man Charlie looked like he was about to cry. He thought he had it in the bag. Then he sat there with the blank dead eye look of your average serial killer as he munched on his pizza.

I think its safe to say Maria's kids will never know their "uncle Charlie". You could just feel the tension as they sat there together not helped by Probst blatantly trying to stir the s#@t.

Still that was one of Probst better reunion shows....he seemed engaged and asked some good questions especially of the jury.

Q donning the white hat and voting for Kenzie was kind of sweet. I hope she feels some regret for all the stuff she said about him be hind his back.

By the way the jury has never had a foreman....until tonight. For all intents and purposes Tiff seemed to step into that role. Loved her throwing shade at Ben not to waste their time with cutesy Taylor Swift and pop culture references. 

Ben was just the worst. He was too stupid to answer one of the questions that his biggest move was winning the final immunity and finally gaining undeserved power after doing absolutely nothing for the entire season.

Nothing in the preview got me excited...c'mon give us something good like all "First Boots"

[TVFan1]

I'm happy about Kenzie's win. Watching Kenzie and seeing her play the social game and her kindness, as well as her talk at FTC about what she would do with the money if she won. Winning fire making helped too. I thought Charlie put up a good fight, I didn't know who was going to win, but I'm glad how it turned out. Charlie did look crushed after he realized he lost. 

Overall, good season. 42 was my favorite, with 45 being very close. 43 being the worst in the new era in my opinion.

[Fake Jan Brady]

Kudos to Venus for suggesting "Season Forty Several".

[Carey]

I totally forgot about the joy Kenzie had for finally being on the winning side.  At that time, I thinking, "No chance, but at least you're on the board with a victory!"  As mentioned, I do have to agree that when you survive with the cast of people around you in your original tribe, that took a lot.  A fair enough case for the win over Charlie

[dancingdreamer]

Liz was a legend in her own mind. I'm pleased for Kenzie, I think she's a nice person, she sure won me over
Any of the three could have won, I wasn't rooting for any one.Charlie went at it too analytically, whereas Kenzie was just herself, spoke from the heart.
Tired, hungry , sleep deprived, you bet they were emotional, I would have been.

Maria voting for Kenzie , I think she was pissed off Charlie lasted longer than her. Sore loser imho. Charlie was definitely hurt.

[violet and green]

1 hour ago, Valerie said:

I was so happy that Ben won final immunity, even if it didn't make a difference to how he went in front of the jury, I know how much it meant to him to have that tangible reward for how much he's overcome.

Me, too. The guy had a horror couple of weeks with barely any sleep, panic attacks and night terrors, and he pulled it together in that "transcendental shreditation." It was such a great moment.

I am really glad he made it to the final three, but kind of wishing he'd known to put Kenzie and Charlie together making fire, so he could get second place money instead. Guess watching the season and seeing Liz's edit will change their views! 

The season started out so wonky, so heavily focusing on Bhanu/Yanu, I remember wanting to quit watching. I kind of slept on Kenzie, after she did a mean confessional early on - but every time she had a confessional, she was set up in such a picturesque spot, and I'd be mesmerised by the color of her hair, her eyes, the brightness of them, the colors of the sea behind her, her tats; it was always so beautiful. Then when I saw her being so kind to Ben and sitting up with him, and saw her forgive his muddled vote, I started to root for her more and more. Kind of wish they'd laid off the triumphant music as they did a rundown in the edit of the final three as that spoiled me for her win.

Really sad for Charlie, who played such a solid game. Maria started off engaging, and then showed her vicious side in the secret scene attacking Ben, refusing to believe he didn't have the idol, and being so cruel and condescending he cried. I really came to dislike her more and more, after that bullshit with rock paper scissors, and then her attitude over the letters reward, and her snakey eyes, but I never imagined she would not give Charlie her vote.

It turned out to be a really interesting season, after all.

I hope Ben gets some Sia money, as he did rock!

[Cotypubby]

I soooo wanted Jeff to do what he always does and poll the jury to see who would have voted for Liz if Ben had taken her instead. I wanted her to get the reality check of no one raising their hands! But I guess Jeff knew that would be the result and didn’t want to be see as picking on her so we were denied that sweet moment!

I do think it’s kinda funny that Liz was so unliked that the other goat wouldn’t even bring her as another goat to the final! 
 

Here’s a thought Liz, mayyyyybe don’t brag about being sooooo rich that you don’t need the money if you actually want someone to drag your useless ass to the end.

[Nashville]

IMHO the choice to be made by the jurors seemed fairly obvious: vote Charlie if your primary determinant is based on the player’s strategic games, or Kenzie if it’s social game.

On a forum board such as this - where questions of strategy can get flogged so hard you’d swear their name was Molly - it’s hardly surprising Charlie would appear to be a relative favorite.  One thing I’ve generally observed over the years, though, is that accompanying the shift from “old era” Survivor to “new era” has also been a change in what factors most influence jurors in the casting of their FTC votes.  There appears to be an increasing transitional shift taking weight away from appreciation for a player’s strategic game, while correspondingly greater weight is given to their social skills - including increased significance given to a player’s life circumstances outside the game, a subject which used to be verboten from consideration.  This FTC, I think, demonstrated all of these factors to great effect.

[30 Helens]

I'm still trying to find the universe where Liz has enough votes to win. She was sure she had it. Ben saw her as enough as a threat to not pick her as a sure goat. What am I missing??

I was certain that Charlie would win if he made it to F3. So did he, apparently. Maybe a little too much, because he didn't do enough to sell himself.  That's where overconfidence will get you.

I discounted Kenzie's ability to win, but she really did have a good story. She was the scrappy survivor from the little Tribe that Couldn't, and she put a lot of work into building relationships. But what really put her over the top (IMO) was her story about what she'd do with the money. To be clear, I HATE that question. The winner should be determined based on gameplay, not on financial necessity. But where Ben and Charlie both gave jury-focused responses that included charitable giving, Kenzie spoke from her heart and admitted she was playing for herself. "I don't want to be cutting bangs when I'm 70." That response was enough to give me a little nudge in her direction, and it seemed the jury felt it, too. It just seemed real. Q was certainly swayed.

I appreciated Maria's classy exit, and I think she played an amazing game, especially since she was older than the other contestants. It's harder for older bodies to do well at challenges, and it's harder for older contestants to relate to younger ones. But she excelled at both, so more power to her. I was definitely in her camp, until she turned on Charlie. There was no reason for that, other than spite. His moves were her moves, so if his moves weren't good enough, then she's denigrating her own game play. I don't blame him if he felt betrayed. She cost him the game.

I understand why they started doing the immediate winner reveals and post-game discussions, and I like the unfiltered reactions. But I also miss the 6-months-later reunion shows. (Minus the bullshit parts, like when Jeff would ask a 9-year-old to predict a winner, or when Cochran would promote his latest endeavor.) I liked seeing people cleaned up and overly made-up. I liked seeing what they thought AFTER watching the episodes. I liked seeing the pre-jury. I liked seeing who got the Sia money. Why can't they do both? A quick post-reveal postmortem AND a later reunion show?

 

Edited May 23 by 30 Helens

[Steph Sometimes]

I enjoyed it. I wasn't the hugest Kenzie fan at the beginning, and I remember one thing she said that was so cringey about how her eyes get so blue when she cries. But she grew on me, and I'm good with her winning. I would've been good with Charlie too, and I like that I didn't know which of the two would win.

I like Ben too, but he was definitely not getting votes. 

Liz, Liz, Liz. I would've loved to see her answer jury questions.

What an insane season this was. Bring on Forty-Several.

[Andyourlittledog2]

Well, clearly they skipped the psychological exam during casting this season. 

Sure Liz, you would totally have won.  Good grief what a nutball.  Bhanu practically has a nervous breakdown. Jelinsky was a legend in his own mind and went out fast. Ben had nightly night terrors and panic attacks. Q was, well, Q.  There were just a lot of folks who had serious issues. 

Glad it was between Charlie and Kenzie. Either was a good win for me. Rooted for Charlie but Kenzie is good.

 

[Skooma]

Liz, delusion until the end.  She actually believed she would have won had she made it to the Final Three???

Also she has now started a whole new thing on Survivor.  Helping another individual win immunity. 

I can see the future with 2 members of a three person alliance stopping their individual attempts at immunity to come over and help the leading third person put their stupid puzzle together.  Thanks for making Survivor worse, Liz!

Ben didn't really deserve to be in Final Three but at least he knew he was just the goat which was better than Liz sitting there thinking she was the preordained winner.

Edited May 23 by Skooma

[ByaNose]

I was floored that Maria didn’t vote for Charlie. I was literally gobsmacked. If she had a reasonable explanation I might I’ve bought it but I didn’t and I don’t think Charlie did either. She had a twitter post earlier where she basically said everyone said she was a woman hater all season but ended voting for a woman in the end. Apparently, she didn’t get the response she wanted because she quickly took it down. She might need some aspirin after all her exit press tomorrow. Although, I wanted Charlie to win I’m okay with Kenzie too. Once we got past the Bhanu of it all it was a fine and exciting season. Also, Liz helping Kenzie on the immunity challenge to beat Maria was hysterical. See everyone is September. 

[Skooma]

I thought Charlie would have it in the bag but Kenzie did a better job during the questions.

And I'm fine part of the reason you vote for a winner is what the money will mean to them.  I know a lot of people think it should only be a non-emotional choice with needs outside the game not coming into play. 

I'm the opposite.  I'm a holistic human being and I think everything is in play.  And if I'm voting to give some person a million dollars I want to know what kind of impact it will make in a person's life. 

And Charlie really whiffed on that question.  He kind of threw in well he could give some money to immigration reform groups like an after thought like whoa I better say something that sounds good with this answer and it just didn't ring true.

Meanwhile Kenzie was totally honest she was doing something entirely for herself after doing stuff for others her whole young life.  I would have switched my vote to her too after their answers to that question.

Edited May 23 by Skooma

[JudyObscure]

Every year the people on the jury say they're going to vote for the person who played the best game and then they vote for the person who's best at bragging, heck maybe Liz really would have won if she'd made it that far!

I don't really see owning a beauty shop as a tragic backstory but the jury sure did.  Now Kenzie can have a fabulous wedding and that's fine, but I kind of hate that so much of their final vote seemed to be about her need for the money.

I wonder how Maria explained turning on Uncle Charlie to her kids.

[surfgirl]

3 hours ago, North of Eden said:

What Liz did was without a doubt some of the dirtiest if not the dirtiest pool ever played on SURVIVOR. A rule change needs to be enacted immediately to outlaw anything like that travesty happening again.

Yeah that reay pissed me off too. Thar was outright cheating and should have been called out and stopped. If you can't win a challenge on your own then you can't win the challenge, period. That was total bullshit.

2 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I soooo wanted Jeff to do what he always does and poll the jury to see who would have voted for Liz if Ben had taken her instead. I wanted her to get the reality check of no one raising their hands! But I guess Jeff knew that would be the result and didn’t want to be see as picking on her so we were denied that sweet moment!

Man, about the only move Ben made all season on his own was to tell Liz she was going to make fire "because you're such a huge threat." I guffawed out loud! But then it was fascinating to see Liz eat that shit up and just revel in it, to the point where she actually believed she would have won. When she said that at TC, the look Venus gave everyone else was priceless! I Ioathe Venus as a player, but that was hilarious. I don't think any of the jury would have voted for Liz. She's absolutely BSC. Snd you know she's going around telling everyone she was the biggest threat to win. Denial, it ain't just a river in Egypt Liz.

And speaking of the jury, I will say that it was one of the best juries ever. I enjoyed the way they clearly had discussed and coordinated each question to provoke different answers. And Tiff as the clock was on point. 

All that said, Charlie deserved to win. He made the best case, examined ckeaybthe moves he made and his strategy that got him to the F3. Kenzie choked during her answers and ad.itted she was dragged into votes. It irks me that the beat player si nit win and that it felt like Kwnzie won because the jury felt sorry for her working since she was 15 and wanted her to have the money. To me, that's not what the game is about. It's not a charity game for the most needy. It's inner is supposed to be the Ayer who outages everyone else and to me that was clearly Charlie. 

PS: Maria? I don't think Charlie's gonna be visiting you any time soon. I don't think I would.

Edited May 23 by surfgirl

[Kenzie]

I've never cared for Maria and tonight I really understood why.

Behind her Earth Mother façade is a very vengeful and petty woman. That wasn't a vote for Kenzie - she couldn't possibly have admired her game - that was a punishment vote against Charlie for daring to vote her out (even when she was plotting his demise.)

I don't think Charlie needs to worry about meeting her precious nephews.

[Brown44]

If I got voted out bc 2 people tag teamed me out of a challenge bc they couldn't do it on there own I'd be pissed to all hell, they would have to ban me from final tribal. 

I'd be like the woman on Big Brother from around 10 year's ago that got kicked off the show bc she was gonna get someone voted out but he was part of a popular couple so the producers came up with away to keep him on the show but get her voted out. And she started throwing her mic pack into the pool and other equipment that they eventually had to get rid of her, that would have been me.

Edited May 23 by Brown44

[LadyChatts]

25 minutes ago, Kenzie said:

I've never cared for Maria and tonight I really understood why.

Behind her Earth Mother façade is a very vengeful and petty woman. That wasn't a vote for Kenzie - she couldn't possibly have admired her game - that was a punishment vote against Charlie for daring to vote her out (even when she was plotting his demise.)

I don't think Charlie needs to worry about meeting her precious nephews.

I mentioned this in the chat thread, but I thought it was funny that Maria took Charlie on the beach to talk to him after the Q vote, and was saying that everyone was telling her to her face she needed to get rid of him and he’d be a threat to sit next to in the end and were lying to her-when she was doing exactly the same thing to Charlie in trying to blindside him.  She prioritized her alliance with Q over Charlie and I think that is what helped do her in.  People didn’t know about her and Charlie being a duo but she made it clear her and Q were one.  
 

I think Maria’s vote was one of pettiness, and I’ve seen some comments online that Q also voted for Kenzie solely because he was bitter Charlie got him first.  Since Q and Kenzie started off on the same tribe I can believe he’d have loyalty to her, but it might explain why his question seemed so out there compared to the others that were more game oriented.  I just feel like Kenzie’s win is being overshadowed by that question, along with some jurors saying they changed their vote to her from Charlie, and acting like she won because she was a charity case (and Liz helping her win that challenge to beat Maria also isn’t helping her cause).   

[Skooma]

54 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I wonder how Maria explained turning on Uncle Charlie to her kids.

Maria was swayed by the money question she said and I would have been too.  I don't believe for one minute she was all bitter and that people saying that have absolutely no evidence to back that up.

And if Maria had voted for Charlie it would just have ended up a tie and Ben would have had a panic attack of epic proportions and probably would have died on the spot having to decide the winner so I'm glad Maria spared us that trauma.

Quite frankly Charlie didn't do a good job with the questions and Kenzie aced them all.  I went into tonight thinking Charlie would have it in the bag but kudos to Kenzie.  She changed my mind too.

[surfgirl]

8 minutes ago, Skooma said:

Quite frankly Charlie didn't do a good job with the questions and Kenzie aced them all.  I went into tonight thinking Charlie would have it in the bag but kudos to Kenzie.  She changed my mind too.

I feel like we were watching a different show because Charlie clearly explained how he got to the final three, and Kenzie just admitted she road coattails and was told whom to vote for. That's not really better examining, it's just admitting she wasn't a mastermind on any vote.

[Kenzie]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't really see owning a beauty shop as a tragic backstory but the jury sure did. 

I think I heard her say that she personally wasn't making any money from her salon because she wasn't charging the other hair-cutters for the use of their stations but at least she was putting others to work. That's not really a plan for success.

Perhaps she can use her winnings to get some business advice.

[Kenzie]

Liz made me laugh when she turned down the reward meal because, "I can't eat pasta."

That made me think about when I was working at a landscape nursery in college and people would buy these Air Ferns because they didn't need food or water because they supposedly lived off just the moisture and nitrogen in the air.

That's her, Lizius starvidius.

[OutOfTheQuestion]

1 hour ago, surfgirl said:

All that said, Charlie deserved to win. He made the best case, examined ckeaybthe moves he made and his strategy that got him to the F3. Kenzie choked during her answers and ad.itted she was dragged into votes. It irks me that the beat player si nit win and that it felt like Kwnzie won because the jury felt sorry for her working since she was 15 and wanted her to have the money. To me, that's not what the game is about. It's not a charity game for the most needy. It's inner is supposed to be the Ayer who outages everyone else and to me that was clearly Charlie.

There is no criteria for voting for a Survivor winner.  It could be "outwit, outplay, outlast" or checking boxes off a so-called resume.....or it could be the more human reason of giving a million dollars to someone you just like more in real life.

Kenzie openly admitting she was dragged into a few votes was a plus for her, not a minus.  If she'd come in all "well, actually...." and tried to pretend she was a secret mastermind, the jury would've rolled their eyes.  Instead, just bring honest and forthright about everything won her enough votes for the title.  AND, Kenzie did highlight her sneaky best move, which was helping create the social mirage that allowed so many players with idols to be blindsided.

And, at least from what we were shown in the edit, Kenzie being real came off better than Charlie being a little too rehearsed.  This is where being a superfan can backfire, with Charlie trying to hit all the boxes in a speech he's rehearsed a million times in his head.

Edited May 23 by OutOfTheQuestion

[violet and green]

31 minutes ago, Skooma said:

I don't believe for one minute she was all bitter and that people saying that have absolutely no evidence to back that up.

Well... we've got eyes in our heads. The editors sure wanted us to think that, too, with all the shots of her pained mouth, and downturned eyes, and clear displeasure for Charlie.

Also, not voting for your number one ally, who is going to be Uncle Charlie for your kids, for a spurious reason (it was the light in her eyes when she made fire! up there in the bullshit stakes with rockpaperscissors for the "hungriest" person to win a spot with her on the reward) strikes me as a bitter response.

[LadyChatts]

7 minutes ago, Kenzie said:

Liz made me laugh when she turned down the reward meal because, "I can't eat pasta."

I was disappointed because I wanted Kenzie to pick Ben over her, after Liz had just helped her win that R/I challenge.  When I saw Kenzie starting to debate who to take I got excited that another meltdown was incoming from Liz.  But then she had to ruin it because of her allergies.  Seriously, between the allergies and the funky thing going on with her wrists, I’m shocked Liz wasn’t the one medevaced this season.  And we may not have even heard of all her ailments!

Edited May 23 by LadyChatts

[Soapy Goddess]

And besides the obvious bitter reasons, I really think Maria wanted to gain the distinction of being one of the few players to win 4 challenges in a row...because when that didn't happen you could see it all over her face.

[Haleth]

Not the worst outcome for a terrible season but I would have preferred if Charlie won.  Remembering how badly the game began for Kenzie, her terrible team, makes her win ok though. Still, love her or hate her, Maria was the best player of the season, until she wasn’t. Not sure if she would have beat Kenzie even without Liz’s help but it’s too bad she didn’t get the chance. 

[GenerationX]

Maria thought she'd been using Charlie to further her game and that she was the mastermind...only to realize he had been doing the same with her.  And he was better at it.  Her ego was tied to her being the best strategic player in the game, so she was able to save face by voting for the best social player in the game.  I think much less of her after her Petty (heh) vote.

Even after watching the season, I'm sure Liz is still 100% convinced she had it in the bag.

Good on you, Charlie, for giving Kenzie full credit for her win.  That's sportsmanship, Maria.

[Brown44]

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

think Maria’s vote was one of pettiness, and I’ve seen some comments online that Q also voted for Kenzie solely because he was bitter Charlie got him first.

What got Maria voted out was she was gonna win against anybody she was in the final 3 with, that's why they tag teamed her to make sure she didn't get immunity so they could vote her out. (If that was me that alone I wouldn't have given Kenzie my vote)

Edited May 23 by Brown44

[Chicago Redshirt]

I know Liz is a hot mess and crazypants, but I do think that she actually could make a case for deserving the win over the others in F4.

In addition to her engineering the Tevin vote and arguably the Soda vote, in addition to her being surviving despite not being able to eat anything and not having a single ally in the game she could rely on, it was her decision to abandon her individual game and boost Kenzie's chances in the final immunity puzzle that led to Maria being vulnerable. That was a bigger move than any of the remaining four could boast.

Now I consider that move straight-up cheating. But Peachy was loving it, and it was allowed. I hope there is a rules change to prevent collaboration of that sort.

But anyway, I think that she could literally say "I put three of the 8 of you on the jury." That could have shook some jury votes, possibly even a majority, to go her way.

[seacliffsal]

Things that make me go "hmmmmm" 

Is it an individual immunity challenge/reward when contestants tag team it?  Doesn't that kind of change the meaning of 'individual'?

• Does supporting your number one ally after trying to vote him out in a previous tribal council justify voting for someone else for sole survivor?

Did Liz really believe that she could win sole survivor?

Why was Liz able to eat pizza but not pasta?

Does Jeff really think that Jelinsky (and probably by association Bhanu, Q, and Liz) make entertaining t.v. and that viewers fell in love with these players??

Because of the shorter seasons do players not really care about any aspect of survival?

[JudyObscure]

1 minute ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Now I consider that move straight-up cheating. But Peachy was loving it, and it was allowed. I hope there is a rules change to prevent collaboration of that sort.

I agree, I was shocked when he didn't stop her.

As they were going up the stairs for the final vote I happened to notice Jeff burst out laughing at the elbows-out way she was running.  It had been gradually  dawning on me that he really liked her.

I do like the quirky characters and throughout the season Liz kept reminding me of The Andy Griffith Show's  Lydia Crosswaith.   The guys kept trying to fix her up with others, and she would deadpan her way through every date.  She will flatly state that she hates: guitars, bridge, games, chit-chat, and that chocolate and car rides make her nauseous.

Lydia.  Definitely not a fun girl.

 

 

[dizzyd]

I’m satisfied with the finale and even with the season as a whole as dysfunctional as it may have been and this is with complete comparison to a masterful Aussie season. I really think they need to do a better job with casting and listen to viewer feedback and not make it a new norm to cast a whole bunch of delusionals, whackos, quitters, there needs to be more balance in the personalities. I wish they start with at least 20 players and 2 tribes or 21/3 and at least 36 days. My picks at the start were Maria, Charlie, Tiffany and Kenzie. Maria lost me pretty quickly with her smugness and not subtle dictatorship but I still respected her game and comp beasting. Tiff was a tough loss for me when she joined the pocket idol crew. Charlie had the best THs and I related the most with his philosophy of the game. Shame his game was crushed by 1 bitter Maria. Kenzie won me over very early with her brand of Kenergy. She has such a positive energy and she had me in awe with the way she held that ridiculous Yanu tribe (consisting of Jelensky, Jess, Bhanu and Q) together premerge when I’d have been more like Tiff with little to no patience for all the bs they were dispensing and navigated her way through all the lows thrown at her to come out on top. There’s no guidelines for who a jury votes for, they’re all entitled to their opinions and reasons and I quite enjoyed FTC, the questions and responses. It was an entertaining end to a season that began so dismally and at several (I didn’t count, could’ve been 7) instances was difficult to watch. Congrats to Kenzie on her win, her marriage and her baby on board. 

Edited May 23 by dizzyd

[Carey]

I still will go with Kenzie winning through no fault of her own.  Maybe not "deserving" but as petty as she may have sounded once or twice, she actually had no control on people playing as if their HII was fake.

I think Liz's shot wasn't zero either despite my jokes about getting a negative number of votes.  While not crazy compared to Ms. Wilcox, I didn't think MaryAnne was winning either.  You just never know.

It was really anyone's game.  I think Maria did distance herself, but not to where it was a lock.  I do wonder what could have been if Q had played his idol.  IMO, I think Maria would've won based on the focus of everyone else.  Prior to her exit, she had a clean sheet in terms of voting, whereas Q received votes in each of his last 5 tribals.  The tribes focus wasn't that elite.  With Q gone, it was a must win for Maria; too bad she got double teamed.

As the end of the day, Liz maybe makes a case to win, but probably not since I can't respect quitting, which would be a valid argument for her choice in that penultimate IC