S03.E03: Forces of Nature

[Orcinus orca]

Penelope catches the eye of nature-loving Lord Debling, to the dismay of other admirers. A near-catastrophe on a windy day makes a hero out of Colin.

[twoods]

Jealous Colin is very entertaining and makes me giggle. I figured the dream would be Pen’s and not his.

I’m enjoying Lord Debling. 
 

Very weird to seeing Cressida nice this season but I’m liking her and Eloise more than I was expecting to. I do miss Eloise and Pen, and their scenes always make me sad.

[RachelKM]

It might just because I'm still feeling the rush of it.  But the scene between Violet, Lady Danbury, and her bother (Marcus?) might be my favorite of the season. He is very charismatic and I appreciate his apparent appreciation of Violet. 

I also liked the moment between Francesca and the guy outside the ball.  (Did we get his name?) 

23 hours ago, twoods said:

Jealous Colin is very entertaining and makes me giggle. I figured the dream would be Pen’s and not his.

Yes.  I also like befuddled by his own feelings Colin.  After seeing his face following his kiss with Pen, I was reasonably certain the dream would be his.  I was delighted to be right and by the execution.

I also enjoyed Violet seemingly following Colin's gaze to Pen and recognizing Colin's questions about friendship and love had a decided direction. Her smile as she walked off was great. (I believe this post may be revealing Violet as, at minimum, one of my favorite characters.)

Goddammit! I really like Lord Debling. He's totes going to be great and then respectfully step aside when he realizes Pen loves Colin.

And, For Fucks Sake, is this show going to make me go soft of Fucking Cressida? In Penelope's season, no less?  RUDE.

I'm starting to feel like the show has no idea what to do with Benedict. I have no problem with his flirtation or even affair with the lovely widow. But this is the third season in which his personality and interest seem sort of affably vacant.  He's charming but relatively shapeless. He isn't even an artist any more (unless I've missed something).

Edited May 17 by RachelKM

[Conotocarious]

Benedict just seems so immature to me. Then again I would never have thought I’d find Colin hot and well, here we are.

[twoods]

Yeah I don’t remember him being this hot the first two seasons. All that galavanting across Europe brought out the smolder in him.

[magdalene]

I really admire the writing for giving human complexity to Cressida of all people.

Darn it - I really like Lord Debling and I don't want him hurt when Pen chooses Colin.

I am pleased Mama Bridgerton has gained an admirer but I am concerned that Lady Danbury does not like her brother.  I have always felt that Violet is too young only to be living for her children but I want the best for dear Violet.

I agree with others here that the writing needs to add some gravitas or something to Benedict as a character if they want me to believe he can carry his own season.

As it stands he is a handsome and charming shallow man who wishy-washily floats through life.

[libgirl2]

4 hours ago, magdalene said:

Darn it - I really like Lord Debling and I don't want him hurt when Pen chooses Colin.

 

My issue with him is, while he seemed to like Pen, he wasn't going to be a very attentive husband being gone all the time. It would not be a love match. 

[mrsbagnet]

Benedict did handle the family business while Anthony was away on his honeymoon, and I assume he will continue to do so with Anthony gone again. He did say he felt aimless without those responsibilities. Hopefully he will take up art again.

What I find strange is that Anthony left in the middle of the social season, when he's supposed to be looking out for Francesca (I know A and K's second honeymoon was a plot device).  Benedict should be taking a more active role with her.

 

Edited May 17 by mrsbagnet

[quarks]

Echoing everyone here that I'm not exactly sure what the show is doing with Benedict other than treading water. I don't mind his new love interest, and I appreciated the little moment in the first episode where we discovered that Benedict is also capable of running an estate, but....it still feels as if not that much is happening with him.

And maybe that's the point - that without the whole art thing, Benedict really doesn't have anything, which may or may not drive him back into art. 

Or maybe the show just isn't sure quite what to do with him before his season.

[Roseanna]

On 5/16/2024 at 2:17 PM, RachelKM said:

Goddammit! I really like Lord Debling. He's totes going to be great and then respectfully step aside when he realizes Pen loves Colin.

 

Spoiler

Respectfully? Was it rather that he was afraid that Penepe would betray him with Colin when he was away?  

 

[tennisgurl]

Bewildered jealousy is a surprisingly good look on Colin, he seems so hilariously confused. I was so hoping the dream at the start would be Colin, and I as happy to be right. Am I getting invested in Colin/Penelope now? 

I think a lot of the events that society goes to look pretty dull, but the balloon festival looked really fun. It seems like all the Bridgeton's are getting new romantic options, Violet and Lady D's brother, Benedict and the balloon loving widow, Francesca and her fellow introvert, I am very interested in seeing where this all goes. 

I like Francesca, she's like Eloise in that she's not that interested in the social world, but unlike Eloise she doesn't disdain it really, she's just quiet. You would think her brothers would be more proactive in finding her a match knowing how naturally shy she is, especially Benedict, who doesn't seem to be doing much right now.

Lady D's brother seems quite charming, I would be thrilled if Violet found another love, she deserves some romance in her life beyond playing match maker for her kids. I loved the chat between her and Colin about love coming from friendship, you can tell she knew exactly why he was asking. 

Lord Debling seems like a really nice guy and I can see him and Penelope connecting, I hope that he isn't too badly hurt when Penelope and Colin inevitably get together. 

[RachelKM]

47 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Spoiler

Respectfully? Was it rather that he was afraid that Penepe would betray him with Colin when he was away? 

 *

 

Well.... I didn't know that at Episode 3. 

 

*Spoiler tags for compliance with episode thread rules. 

[magdalene]

2 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Well.... I didn't know that at Episode 3. 

Yes, I got spoiled too for episode 4 in episode 3.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Of course the opening scene is just a dream! 🙄

All the drama surrounding the hot air balloon is kind of ridiculous. A bit worried that Lord Debling is going to give Pen some fractured ribs while “saving” her.

There are tension and chemistry but they’re between Pen and Eloise, NOT Polin. Pen has more chemistry with Lord Debling than Colin.

Lovesick Colin still doesn’t have a courage to ask Pen the important question. The moment Violet realizes that Colin is in love with Pen is just sweet. She knows her kids.

The new Penelope is braver in navigating the Ton in order to get what she wants. But Lord Debling? Seriously Pen, a vegetarian and a naturalist? One thing, when he’s out exploring the nature, Pen will have enough privacy to continue being Lady Whistledown. 

Cressida’s puff sleeves are getting bigger, fuglier and so OTT. 👎🏻

Poor Francesca. A marquis from Vienna who wants 8 kids? Hard pass.

Lady Tilley Arnold - another uninteresting character for this season. Why do we need a MILF for Benedict? 😣

[Souris]

2 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

 🙄

Cressida’s puff sleeves are getting bigger, fuglier and so OTT. 👎🏻

😣

Which are bigger, Cressida's sleeves or Queen Charlotte's wigs? 🤣

(I don't know why I couldn't delete the emojis in the quote.)

Edited May 18 by Souris

[RachelKM]

3 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Cressida’s puff sleeves are getting bigger, fuglier and so OTT. 👎🏻

I was having serious Pretty in Pink prom dress flash backs over and over.

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

All the drama surrounding the hot air balloon is kind of ridiculous. A bit worried that Lord Debling is going to give Pen some fractured ribs while “saving” her.

It would have a pleasure if for once the plot hadn't been so predictable and the heroine would have felt sexual urges in the embrance of "another man". 

But the casting showed that Lord Debling wasn't "the one".

[andromeda331]

It's weird learning more about Cressida at the same time does she have to keep being a bitch to Penelope? Why is she such a bitch to her? She's not horrible to others as much as she is to her. 

I like Lord Debling. He's nice to Penelope. 

I still don't care about Colin.  

 I'm surprised that Eloise admitted what she did. 

[Conotocarious]

I absolutely love the scene with Colin and Pen under the willow tree. It is amazingly acted….by both of them. It’s one of my rewatch scenes and there are several this season. Romcom perfection.

Edited May 18 by Conotocarious

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, Conotocarious said:

I absolutely love the scene with Colin and Pen under the willow tree. It is amazingly acted….by both of them. It’s one of my rewatch scenes and there are several this season. Romcom perfection.

I absolutely loved that scene, too.  I rewatched too and actually laughed out loud both times at the apologies.

Edited May 18 by RachelKM

[Souris]

Also, somewhere in time Anne Shirley is 😍 about Cressida's puff sleeves.

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, Souris said:

Also, somewhere in time Anne Shirley is 😍 about Cressida's puff sleeves.

I didn't even think of that. Thank you. 

[chitowngirl]

It must have been exhausting to have a Season! I do love the dancing, such precision!

[Lady J]

Colin is a bore. I wanted Benedict and Sophie ‘s season and I’m wondering if we’ll ever get it . 

[PRgal]

20 minutes ago, Lady J said:

Colin is a bore. I wanted Benedict and Sophie ‘s season and I’m wondering if we’ll ever get it . 

I'm wondering if they're just switching three and four.  I'm listening to the "official" show podcast and they're saying that a lot of fans were more or less begging for Polin, so they decided to speed that up first?  I don't think they're going to go right book 5, are they?  

[chaifan]

Everyone is saying Pen & Colin are endgame, but I haven't read the books, so I don't know if this is people shipping them, or if that's what actually happens in the books. (don't tell me either way)  I actually would rather that Pen finds someone else, whether it's Lord Vegetarian, or someone different.  

I have mixed feelings about Pen being shunned and gossiped about.  It really is quite karmic, given what she's done as LW.  I feel her writing about herself was more self-flagellation than not wanting to blow her cover.  I just have a hard time feeling sorry for her.   

I like how Francesca is all "oh, I don't really care who I marry, let the Queen choose", and then is all "8 kids, hell no!  maybe I do need to care about who I marry!"  I looked up Hannah Dodd's age and Phoebe Dynevor's age.  Debutantes are supposed to be around 16-18, possibly even younger in that era.  Daphne read much younger to me than Francesca is coming across.  Both actresses are 29, so it makes sense that Francesca looks older than Daphne did at the same on-screen age.  But Hannah in no way is coming across as 17-ish in this role.  Don't get me wrong, I like her, much more than I liked Daphne (that's not saying too much, honestly).  And there isn't the ick factor that I felt in Season 1 with Daphne looking like she was 15 and Simon looking 30+.  

How can Violet and Agatha be such good friends, and Violet doesn't even know Agatha has a brother???

Why was Pen's dark green dress such an outlier in Episode 1, when in this episode the entire dancefloor had women with dark dresses?

I like the Mondrich's story line, but it just feels too tangential to the main plot, like it was tacked on and doesn't really belong there.  I don't understand why Mrs. Mondrich would be expected to wear another woman's dresses.  Inheriting jewelry, I get, but why did she seem obligated to wear the dresses?

 

[janie jones]

49 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Why was Pen's dark green dress such an outlier in Episode 1, when in this episode the entire dancefloor had women with dark dresses?

I think it's more that the Featherington women are known for wearing bright, citrusy colors, and that was a jewel tone an the style actually flattered her, than that she was wearing something so drastically different from everyone else.

[Lady J]

2 hours ago, janie jones said:

I think it's more that the Featherington women are known for wearing bright, citrusy colors, and that was a jewel tone an the style actually flattered her, than that she was wearing something so drastically different from everyone else.

In the books , Penelope’s mother chose her clothes, and insisted that she wear “ happy colors.” 

[chitowngirl]

Single women usually wore pastels and lighter colors. Married women wore the darker and jewel toned ones.

[Bobcatkitten]

I thought Benedict was going to be an artist but that has completely disappeared. 

[PRgal]

52 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I thought Benedict was going to be an artist but that has completely disappeared. 

I think he lost confidence after he found out Anthony influenced his acceptance to art school. 

[Lady J]

23 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I think he lost confidence after he found out Anthony influenced his acceptance to art school. 

It’s tough being the “ spare, “ Anthony knew what was expected of him and even he took awhile to settle in. I think it’s all in the writing, give Ben a good story and he will shine.

[Orcinus orca]

Sadly (since I have been SO looking forward to this and planned on binging) I am only halfway through two and a half episodes. And I have no great urge to finish.  Can't put my finger on why but agree with a lot of what has been said.  Colin is boring.  I'm not feeling any romantic link between Pen and Colin; she is more like a young teen with a big crush on a jock at high school. 

I think the only thing that might compel me to watch the rest are the costumes.  Guess I can do that with the sound off.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Hmm.  As someone who absolutely does not care about Colin, I guess I was thinking this season that I could focus on the things that I do enjoy - like Kate/Anthony interactions, Benedict/Anthony interactions, and Benedict/Eloise. LOL, joke's on me, I guess.  My mean opinion (as someone who gets nothing from Colin, and therefore feels nothing from the Pen/Colin romance) is that they didn't want anyone else's natural chemistry outshining whatever Colin's going for.  Meh.

The Benedict actor is so much better than the crapola stories they write for him. For fun, I like to imagine Colin with Benedict's humor and charm. Yeah, that would have worked for me. Charm lessons from that guy would have actually made sense!

I don't know if this show typically reuses music, but I instantly recognized the song from Benedict's dance with the widow Lady as a song from the Kate/Anthony season. It took me a minute to remember, but it was the song that the entire family danced to prior to Kate and Anthony's hookup in the gazebo. Rewatched that season 2 scene and remembered the cute little Benedict/Eloise moments ☹️

Edited May 21 by SonofaBiscuit

[mrsbagnet]

2 hours ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

I don't know if this show typically reuses music, but I instantly recognized the song from Benedict's dance with the widow Lady as a song from the Kate/Anthony season. It took me a minute to remember, but it was the song that the entire family danced to prior to Kate and Anthony's hookup in the gazebo. Rewatched that season 2 scene and remembered the cute little Benedict/Eloise moments ☹️

I was really surprised that they reused that bit of music. I know that not everyone has watched Season 2 as many times as I have, but the country dance scene was one of the best from last season and the music was really memorable. I recognized it immediately, and it was jarring to hear it in a different context.

They also reused the music from Kate and Anthony's stuck in the mud scene. That music I recognized from Season 2, but it took me a while to remember which scene.

Edited May 21 by mrsbagnet

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/18/2024 at 3:49 AM, andromeda331 said:

It's weird learning more about Cressida at the same time does she have to keep being a bitch to Penelope? Why is she such a bitch to her? She's not horrible to others as much as she is to her. 

Cressida has only Eloise as a true friend. Cressida knows that Pen broke Eloise's heart in some way, shape or form that Eloise won't even talk about. I think that combined with her natural mean-girl tendencies and Pen's odd-duckling nature probably makes Cressida particularly antagonistic toward Pen. (Not that I would count on her actually being less of a bitch to others. If memory serves, she was pretty obnoxious to Daphne and well, pretty much everyone who wasn't Eloise this season). 

On 5/18/2024 at 11:35 PM, chaifan said:

Everyone is saying Pen & Colin are endgame, but I haven't read the books, so I don't know if this is people shipping them, or if that's what actually happens in the books. (don't tell me either way)  I actually would rather that Pen finds someone else, whether it's Lord Vegetarian, or someone different.  

....

How can Violet and Agatha be such good friends, and Violet doesn't even know Agatha has a brother???

I haven't read the books, but for the two previous seasons, Pen has been crushing on Colin and so I can't see the show doing a swerve and having either end up with someone else. By genre conventions, it seems to me that they have to follow the friends-to-lovers storyline through to its end of Polin. Now if the show were to swerve from that and have Pen tell Lord Vegetarian "Actually, I've gotten Colin out of my system. I wish for us to be together" or for Colin to say "I've made a terrible mistake. Back to having the pick of the Ton's most eligible bachelorettes and a huge dowry!" I would have mad respect for the show. But I place the odds of that slightly lower than my being transported to the world of Bridgerton, granted a duchy and maintaining a polygamous relationship with Daphne, Marina, Kate and Edwina.

Re: Violet and Agatha, a couple possibilities:

1. They aren't as good friends as one might suppose

2. Agatha has specifically not mentioned her brother because she's ashamed of him/has effectively cut him out of her life.

 3. Their friendship is focused around gossip, the marriage mart and the Bridgerton kids in the present. It doesn't include much about the past in general. 

Spoiler for Queen Charlotte:

Agatha had a whirlwind romance with Violet's father, and Violet figured it out. So it may be that the two want to keep their secrets.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

What feels odd about Violet not knowing about Agatha having a brother is it runs against how the Ton operated and how it operates in most romance novels.  Aristocrats know other aristocratic families especially mothers who are trying to find spouses for their whole brood of kids like Violet.  And if they did not recognize a name, they would consult their copy of Debrett's Peerage.  Violet has successfully married off one daughter and has two other ones out, she has a copy of Debretts. She would know the basic outline of Agatha's family even if she had never met them.  

[shapeshifter]

49 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Cressida has only Eloise as a true friend. Cressida knows that Pen broke Eloise's heart in some way, shape or form that Eloise won't even talk about. I think that combined with her natural mean-girl tendencies and Pen's odd-duckling nature probably makes Cressida particularly antagonistic toward Pen. (Not that I would count on her actually being less of a bitch to others. If memory serves, she was pretty obnoxious to Daphne and well, pretty much everyone who wasn't Eloise this season). 

I was going to say it would help is the actress playing Cressida was younger, but she was just about 21 when they shot this season! Maybe it's just her height, but what's going on with the hair, makeup, and wardrobe choices that make her look so old? I get that this is Cressida's "3rd season," and that makes her practically a spinster, but isn't that still supposed to be age 20? 
Hrmm... Maybe they'll give her a bit of the Benjamin Button treatment when Lord Vegie or whomever gets smitten and proposes, due in part to Cressida's heart having grown 3 sizes a la the Grinch. 

Edited May 21 by shapeshifter

[lovett1979]

On 5/19/2024 at 12:35 AM, chaifan said:

Daphne read much younger to me than Francesca is coming across.  Both actresses are 29, so it makes sense that Francesca looks older than Daphne did at the same on-screen age.  But Hannah in no way is coming across as 17-ish in this role.

It's because she's wearing WAY too much makeup. Daphne looked like she was hardly wearing any. But Francesca is soooo made up, it's very distracting and seems to be working against the character as written.

[Orcinus orca]

9 minutes ago, lovett1979 said:

It's because she's wearing WAY too much makeup. Daphne looked like she was hardly wearing any. But Francesca is soooo made up, it's very distracting and seems to be working against the character as written.

I find the make up yery distracting as well.  It's very shiny which makes the faces look plastic.

[mrsbagnet]

45 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I was going to say it would help is the actress playing Cressida was younger, but she was just about 21 when they shot this season!

She was born in 1992, so she was 31.

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, mrsbagnet said:

She was born in 1992, so she was 31.

Oops! 
Thanks.
Did nobody think about the ages of the actors when they auditioned them for a potentially 8 season project? 
Or is that not legal to consider?

[Ohiopirate02]

16 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Oops! 
Thanks.
Did nobody think about the ages of the actors when they auditioned them for a potentially 8 season project? 
Or is that not legal to consider?

I'm sure back in 2019 when the show was being cast the producers considered the ages of the actors for the characters that would potentially be in all 8 seasons.  But, those characters were always going to be the adult adult characters like Violet, Lady Danbury, Queen Charlotte, Portia Featherington, etc.  There would have been no way of knowing how long it would take in between seasons to produce each one nor that there was going to be a worldwide pandemic.  When the show was initially cast, I don't think the showrunners thought it would take 5 years to produce 3 seasons. 

They may have thought about the age of someone like Claudia Jessie being able to play Eloise as a young woman in her 20s when they finally got around to her season.  Or they decided on the best actor for the part and if they did not "look young enough" for the role 5 plus years later, then so what.  And some of these characters were never going to be in all 8 seasons or however many seasons Netflix chooses to greenlight.  Come season 4, Cressida may not even be on the canvas anymore.

I personally do not mind actresses in their 30s playing these roles.  I read enough romance to know how young the characters are written, but I don't mind the show aging them up.  I do it in my head all the time.  In my mind, the 17 year old heroine of whatever historical romance I am reading is 24.  Though I do appreciate the overall aging up of heroines in historical romance in general.  Those 17 year olds are not as common as they once were.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

46 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Oops! 
Thanks.
Did nobody think about the ages of the actors when they auditioned them for a potentially 8 season project? 
Or is that not legal to consider?

I'd imagine that legally they could cast whatever age actor that they want. The issue more is talent/skill. I can only think of one franchise off the top of my head that involved children over a series of years who cast age-appropriate actors at the start and had them continue throughout: the Harry Potter series. They friggin' struck gold with Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson and Rupert Grint. 

I think it is probably hard for a casting director to entrust their baby to a figurative baby. Hiring a 17-year-old actor or actress and expecting them to be properly mature (and scandal-free) in 8 years seems far riskier than hiring a 28 year old actor and just expecting the audience to swallow that their character is 10 years younger than they appear.

[shapeshifter]

Thanks @Chicago Redshirt and @Ohiopirate02 for giving some rationale behind the casting choices.
I had thought of the pandemic and Writers Strike effects, but both were surprisingly negligible for this show compared to others.

And the hiring of older actors to play teen-ish characters also explains why the main match couples disappear after their seasons. 

The only thing bugging me is the believability of character development. As I mentioned back on the 3.1 thread, I am a firm believer in the adage that a “leopard may not change its spots,” that is, that people do not change, they just become more of who they already are. 
However, children often do "change" in that they are still finding their way, literally, and to me, a 17-20 year old would fit into this category. So, if Cressida (or Pen) was high school or undergraduate college aged, character growth that included a major shift of outlook would be believable to me. 

IDK. Even now I look back on some crap I said and thought 20 years ago when I was 50 and cringe.

So.
I guess we're supposed to handwave ages unless mentioned. 
On the Bridgerton Wiki, the lengthy page for Cressida does not give her an age. 

And the Queen Charlotte series had character development for mature characters that worked.

Also, having seen Claudia Jessie on Colbert the other night, I am confident that the glimmers of metamorphosis for Eloise will lead to a convincing transformation as played by that actor who has such a dynamic personality.

But I do kind of wish they didn't all have to get married off.

Edited May 21 by shapeshifter

[PRgal]

I actually wonder why they decided to hire nearly-30 or 30-something actors opposed to early to mid 20-somethings to play characters who are supposed to be teenagers was.  Or maybe they just wanted that alternate universe ton that they already have.

[chaifan]

I think the funny thing in the age discussion is no one has mentioned Nicola Coughlan, who is the oldest of the debutantes being portrayed.  She is 37!  I can buy her as early 20's. Even outside of Bridgerton, she doesn't look anywhere near 37. 

 

 

 

[PRgal]

52 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I think the funny thing in the age discussion is no one has mentioned Nicola Coughlan, who is the oldest of the debutantes being portrayed.  She is 37!  I can buy her as early 20's. Even outside of Bridgerton, she doesn't look anywhere near 37. 

 

 

 

I guess some people just look young for their age!  Many people think I'm still in my 30s, but I'm going to be 45 in a few months!

[Conotocarious]

7 hours ago, mrsbagnet said:

I was really surprised that they reused that bit of music. I know that not everyone has watched Season 2 as many times as I have, but the country dance scene was one of the best from last season and the music was really memorable. I recognized it immediately, and it was jarring to hear it in a different context.

They also reused the music from Kate and Anthony's stuck in the mud scene. That music I recognized from Season 2, but it took me a while to remember which scene.

What’s really annoying is I still don’t know where to find that music! I don’t see it on any Bridgerton soundtrack, and I don’t see a Bridgerton score either.  I would really like to be able to add that music to a playlist so its bugging the heck out of me.

[Absolom]