Spoiler, Speculation and Social Media

[Tuxcat]

11 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Did Christine pay back Meri after she sold her house?

I will never understand their finances but it seems their family account was mainly used for property/houses - at least in the more recent years. So the family account paid the down payment on Christine's house and Robyn's house. Its always interesting to me that people blame Kody and Robyn for taking Meri/Janelle's money. But they don't blame Christine. She took it and ran lol. I am hopeful that they each got a fair pay out when they left but Christine got the best deal. She got the house and the proceeds from that house. Whereas Meri and Janelle got a poop pond. Hopefully Kody bought it from them.

[Absolom]

How much did Christine have to put in the pot after selling her Vegas house?  Could it have balanced out?  

[BnJJ]

I don't see Christine as having taken anything and ran.  She was entitled to her stake in CP.  Since it wasn't going to be sold, she kept the equity in her house instead, which, according to Janelle who kept the books, was very close to her stake in CP.

If Meri or Janelle had bought (and in their names only) they could have done the same.

Edited May 5, 2023 by BnJJ

[Sandy W]

22 minutes ago, Absolom said:

How much did Christine have to put in the pot after selling her Vegas house?  Could it have balanced out?  

Unless Christine paid down her mortgage on anniversary dates, I calculated at one time that she came out of the LV house with a net loss. Nearly a year of carrying costs (mortgage payment, HOA fees, Real Estate fees, taxes, utilities etc) would have consumed any equity she did have in the house.

[GeeGolly]

51 minutes ago, BnJJ said:

I don't see Christine as having taken anything and ran.  She was entitled to her stake in CP.  Since it wasn't going to be sold, she kept the equity in her house instead, which, according to Janelle who kept the books, was very close to her stake in CP.

If Meri or Janelle had bought (and in their names only) they could have done the same.

Right but IIRC, Meri gave Christine money for the down payment on her Flagstaff home.

[BnJJ]

20 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Right but IIRC, Meri gave Christine money for the down payment on her Flagstaff home.

Which Christine gave back to the rest of the family in her stake in CP.

I recall Meri saying she gave the money from her Vegas house to Robyn not Christine.  But regardless, Christine gave them her stake in CP.

The Vegas houses were bought with pooled family money, too, so none of it is cut and dried.

Edited May 5, 2023 by BnJJ

[Tuxcat]

30 minutes ago, BnJJ said:

Which Christine gave back to the rest of the family in her stake in CP.

I recall Meri saying she gave the money from her Vegas house to Robyn not Christine.  But regardless, Christine gave them her stake in CP.

The Vegas houses were bought with pooled family money, too, so none of it is cut and dried.

Do we not think that they used pooled money to purchase the land in CP too? Was it Christine's money to "give them their stake." 

It may truly be just "family money" but if that is the case why is everyone mad at Kody and Robyn for using pooled family money on her house when Christine did the same thing.

[LilyD]

1 hour ago, BnJJ said:

The Vegas houses were bought with pooled family money, too, so none of it is cut and dried.

I highly doubt this, as there is no way the Browns could have had a lot of own money to invest at the time (if they ever had any at all). It's quite simple really:

The Browns only started filming in 2010. It was a new show and most reality stars don't really earn that much from a first season. At the time, 3 families lived in the big house and Robyn still had her own rental. So 2 monthly payments. Kody and Janelle worked fulltime, Meri part time (until the show aired) Christine looked after the kids and Robyn did nothing. Add to that the basic living expenses for 5 adults and 16 kids.

They left early in 2011 and were then forced to rent 4 expensive rentals in Las Vegas. The house in Lehi remained empty yet that monthly mortgage continued. Also, Janelle and Meri had lost their jobs, and I believe Kody too. They were fully dependent on the TLC money for a short while. They eventually bought the LV houses and we all witnessed how painful acquiring those mortgages was. It was hard to find a money lender who was prepared to take them on (I'm sure polygamy wasn't the only reason!) and it also turned out that Robyn had accumulated a bunch of debts under 4 different last names.

They were forced to rent until the houses were built, so for at least 3 years they spent a monthly fortune on 4 rentals, the mortgage on the Lehi house, pay toward the loans for the new builds or down payments and take care of 16, then 17 kids. 

I can't remember how expensive their rentals were at the time, nor do I know anything about the cost of living in the LV area for a big family with lots of kids, but their monthly expenses must have been ridiculously high. Luckily, the show was at its height at the time, meaning a decent pay check, but when I look at my little list, then that's were the entire pay check had to go.

The house in Lehi eventually sold at a loss by the way, even after expensive renovation works. But that wasn't until 2016.... so 5 years of extra costs

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by LilyD
corrected grammatical error

[Sandy W]

I don't know how long the Lehi house sat vacant but it was eventually rented to family members. 

Probably for not much rent, as it had serious mold issues that was part of the expensive renovations they had to attend to before they could put it up for sale.

[Teafortwo]

Does anyone think Kody and Meri made money from their LIV downlines?

And of course, income from MSWC.

 

hahahha

[Sandy W]

4 minutes ago, Teafortwo said:

Does anyone think Kody and Meri made money from their LIV downlines?

And of course, income from MSWC.

 

hahahha

It would not surprise me if Meri and Kody (maybe all of them) were still involved with LIV. 

When Truely became seriously dehydrated, Kody advised one of the girls to give her some LIV water.  A few seasons later, a bottle of it was spotted on one of the kitchen counters.

[mythoughtis]

Janelle gave half her equity from the Vegas house directly to Robyn to buy the mansion.  Family money went to Christine to buy the house.  Several of the CP lots are owned by Kody and or Robyn along with one of the other wives. Christine was not legally obligated to give the family a dime because the house was in her name only  - but she did give them her share of CP. which probably was at least as much as what family money she used for a down payment.  If people are looking for a dollar to dollar split  … then don’t get married, don’t have kids and don’t divorce.  Because life isn’t fair.

If it was, Janelle would win the lottery because she’s the one whose given more money over the years to the communal pot 

[Art Of Noiz]

10 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

I am mesmerized by her new hairdo.  The braids in front.  I know a lot of these youtube vids use AI to do the talking on the vlog.  I really wish she would OR practice more.  She is not very smooth and repeats the same thing over and over.

That said, I watched.  A lot of Meri and Bonnie tea.  Doesn't seem like that family was very nice.

It was interesting. I could see in Emily the same communication style Christine and Gwen use. Which is deadpan, but with little eye gestures. 

When Emily said there was some aggression with the Barbers, I couldn't decide which Barber she meant. 

[BnJJ]

14 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Do we not think that they used pooled money to purchase the land in CP too? Was it Christine's money to "give them their stake." 

It may truly be just "family money" but if that is the case why is everyone mad at Kody and Robyn for using pooled family money on her house when Christine did the same thing.

Yes, I would say they used pooled family money to buy CP, which each of them had a stake in, including Christine.  That was my entire point.

"Everyone" is not mad at R&K for using pooled money.  Meri said she was fine with that and had no concern continuing to rent even though others bought.  Janelle said she only saw it as fair for her to be able to use pooled family funds to start building her house on CP (before she bought the RV) since pooled family money was used for houses for Robyn and Christine. 

11 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Janelle gave half her equity from the Vegas house directly to Robyn to buy the mansion.  Family money went to Christine to buy the house.  Several of the CP lots are owned by Kody and or Robyn along with one of the other wives. Christine was not legally obligated to give the family a dime because the house was in her name only  - but she did give them her share of CP. which probably was at least as much as what family money she used for a down payment.  If people are looking for a dollar to dollar split  … then don’t get married, don’t have kids and don’t divorce.  Because life isn’t fair.

If it was, Janelle would win the lottery because she’s the one whose given more money over the years to the communal pot 

Yes, exactly what I was saying.

This often happens when one walks way from a jointly owned asset. Their share of that asset gets bought out by the others retaining the asset.

[Pickleinthemiddle]

17 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Do we not think that they used pooled money to purchase the land in CP too? Was it Christine's money to "give them their stake." 

It may truly be just "family money" but if that is the case why is everyone mad at Kody and Robyn for using pooled family money on her house when Christine did the same thing.

I think what everyone is mad about, was the fact that because of K&R spending habits, that there was no money left for them to pay off CP so Janelle could start building her house. She said the money was there at one time to pay it off, which was why she was so upset.  I sort of agree with other posters that over the years Janelle probably put more money into the family pot, for everyone to use than anyone else in the family.  Until they got the TLC show.  

[Art Of Noiz]

I watched Gwen's rewatch of S1e1 last week. This week, she decided she could rewatch e2/3. Because of lack of content in original episodes. Lol. 

She recapped, and babbled it all in 26 min. Too funny. 

The main gold nuggets she dropped were 

*because of time  discrepancies, TLC provided pregnancy pillows for couch convos. 

*Christine's miscarried male fetus was buried in the back yard of the Lehi plygplex. 

 

[Gramto6]

1 hour ago, Art Of Noiz said:

 *Christine's miscarried male fetus was buried in the back yard of the Lehi plygplex. 

 

What???  That is just awful and so sad! Did they bury the dog near it?  It makes you wonder what  else is buried there?

[Art Of Noiz]

1 hour ago, Gramto6 said:

What???  That is just awful and so sad! Did they bury the dog near it?  It makes you wonder what  else is buried there?

Ik. I thought that was so grim.

[Sweetpea12]

3 hours ago, Art Of Noiz said:

*Christine's miscarried male fetus was buried in the back yard of the Lehi plygplex. 

 

Is that even legal?

[Gramto6]

4 minutes ago, Sweetpea12 said:

Is that even legal?

I wondered that myself. But I guess if they said nothing to anyone but family (maybe only the older kids), who would know? Of course it is out there now, wonder what will happen??

Edited May 6, 2023 by Gramto6

[Sweetpea12]

2 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

2 hours ago, Sweetpea12 said:

Is that even legal?

I wondered that myself. But I guess if they said nothing to anyone but family (maybe only the older kids), who would know? Of course it is out there now, wonder what will happen??

I was certain that it is not legal to bury someone in your yard in Canada, (where I live), but apparently it mostly is . . .'Burial on one's own property, as traditionally practised prior to the mid-1800's, is still permitted throughout most of Canada.'    

Also this . . . 'Home burials are technically legal in every state except:  California. Indiana. Washington.  (Jul 25, 2022)'

[Ms.Lulu]

13 minutes ago, Sweetpea12 said:

 Also this . . . 'Home burials are technically legal in every state except:  California. Indiana. Washington.  (Jul 25, 2022)'

Some municipalities require that you report where the burial is on the property, and miscarriages before 24 weeks can also have different guidelines.

(And this conversation makes me both sad and uncomfortable, but I am in it)

Edited May 7, 2023 by Ms.Lulu

[Orcinus orca]

One wonders if there was anything legal done at all. The fetus was apparently old enough to be able to determine the sex.  

[Tuxcat]

35 minutes ago, Orcinus orca said:

One wonders if there was anything legal done at all. The fetus was apparently old enough to be able to determine the sex.  

Not necessarily visually though. Christine went to the hospital because of hemorrhaging. Its possible they offered her genetic testing on any retained tissue. 

[Gramto6]

Here in MT there are several grave sites near me on old farm/pasture land. They all have a log fence around the graves and probably date back to the 1800's. I am very sure they were legal at the time, and probably some forms were filed with the county.  I can't believe that there isn't some sort of registration needed to bury human remains on your property in this day and age. I wonder if they marked the grave and if they didn't that is just wrong on so many levels. Burying a dog is one thing a baby is totally different.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Gramto6

[GeeGolly]

I'm guessing even though its legal to bury human remains on one's property there are likely many hoops/regulations to get through, which would make it very difficult.

Burying a fetus/stillborn in a non-cemetery area of a backyard is just wrong. IMO, there is just no way to make it right.

[Orcinus orca]

11 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Its possible they offered her genetic testing on any retained tissue. 

It's certainly possible but without insurance I think it would be pretty costly.  It's not like they didn't already have a good supply of both sexes.  They weren't waiting for a firstborn male to take over the dynasty.

[LilyD]

Can I say that I struggle with Gwen’s decision to go public with this bit of very personal information? I cannot precisely say why, but it makes me very uncomfortable for more than one reason. What’s the point of sharing this? It will only cause her mother more pain and no doubt cause a lot of backlash online. Let’s hope that this doesn’t inspire SW lunatics to go and find a grave site…The world is full enough of big idiots as it is.

[Gramto6]

You make a good point @LilyD. Why would Gwen share this very private information just now?  Is there some sort of ulterior motive behind it? I can't imagine her wanting to hurt Christine in this way, but who really knows what is going on behind the scenes that we know nothing about?

Oh my gosh, I really hope no one gets sick enough to go looking for that poor baby's grave!!

[Celia Rubenstein]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Burying a fetus/stillborn in a non-cemetery area of a backyard is just wrong. IMO, there is just no way to make it right.

Kinda makes the Duggar's ammo box burial of Jubilee look opulent in comparison, doesn't it?

[Tuxcat]

3 hours ago, Orcinus orca said:

It's certainly possible but without insurance I think it would be pretty costly.  It's not like they didn't already have a good supply of both sexes.  They weren't waiting for a firstborn male to take over the dynasty.

The genetic testing is usually offered to add information about why they miscarried - especially if it was a later term miscarriage. You find out the sex as a byproduct of that test.  But you are right, they did not have insurance so they likely did not do this. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Burying a fetus/stillborn in a non-cemetery area of a backyard is just wrong. IMO, there is just no way to make it right.

It makes me wonder (though I really don't want to be thinking about this) if they lined the grave or put the remains in some sort of water resistant urn or box instead of just putting them in a cardboard box and letting whatever happens, happen. I know that there is now a tread toward environmentally friendly burials where everything is sort of meant to decompose more naturally but honestly I can't help but think that this was less about being earth friendly and more about not going to any expense to purchase a burial plot or a marker or a coffin. 

I don't know. As much as I love analyzing the antics of the Browns, I think that I'm going to try to put this one out of my head.

[Tuxcat]

21 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

It makes me wonder (though I really don't want to be thinking about this) if they lined the grave or put the remains in some sort of water resistant urn or box instead of just putting them in a cardboard box and letting whatever happens, happen. I know that there is now a tread toward environmentally friendly burials where everything is sort of meant to decompose more naturally but honestly I can't help but think that this was less about being earth friendly and more about not going to any expense to purchase a burial plot or a marker or a coffin. 

I don't know. As much as I love analyzing the antics of the Browns, I think that I'm going to try to put this one out of my head.

I just skimmed upthread so I don't know if this was mentioned but she said they "put a ton of rocks on it" because my dad said  "so dogs don't rip it apart"  (yes those are direct quotes from her YouTube video)

Edited May 7, 2023 by Tuxcat
for clarity

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Tuxcat said:

I just skimmed upthread so I don't know if this was mentioned but she said they "put a ton of rocks on it" because my dad said  "so dogs don't rip it apart" 

Okay, yup, nope.

The Brown adults are careless assholes.

[Ms.Lulu]

I know this is a very dark conversation and I have sympathy for Christine and how  she chose to handle this. I personally don't know enough for more emotion than that.

What I know is that Christine had significant bleeding and could have died, so her subsequent pregnancy required a hospital birth.

I don't know how old the fetus was when she lost it.

In the first 13 weeks it isn't uncommon for women to miscarry into the toilet and a good number or people flush the remains. I don't judge any woman for doing this.

Miscarriage at 14-20 weeks means the fetus is somewhere between the size of a nectarine or a bell pepper. If you go to the hospital, there may be pathology done to determine the reason for the miscarriage. If the mother/parents have the means, they may bury/cremate the remains. If they do not, then the hospital may send for cremation with other miscarriage remains. It is often treated as medical waste.

Given that Christine had just declared bankruptcy and they were pretty poor, Christine and Kody may not have been able to afford a formal burial. And since burying the remains on their property is legal, they may have felt like it would allow them to have closure.

And I take Gwen's comments about the stones being to keep the dogs out rather than as a grave marker with a grain of salt. She would have been 7 or 8 when Christine miscarried and those memories may not be crisp.

It is hard for me to judge them on this. Table for one, please.

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Ms.Lulu

[Tuxcat]

Here's the thing. I respect their desire to not dispose of the remains as medical waste (though I understand that decision too). But burying in your yard under "a ton of rocks" seems an odd choice if indeed they were well connected with their church. Many funeral homes offer free urns or small "caskets" to parents who lose a child. Many churches have special cemeteries for miscarried babies. It seems to me that if this was done for "respect," they could have take a few extra steps to have a proper burial - even a service - without spending a dime. They were supposedly "royalty" in the AUB.  But to me, it seems like they buried it and referred to it like a pet rabbit.  

[Art Of Noiz]

4 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

You make a good point @LilyD. Why would Gwen share this very private information just now?  Is there some sort of ulterior motive behind it? I can't imagine her wanting to hurt Christine in this way, but who really knows what is going on behind the scenes that we know nothing about?

Oh my gosh, I really hope no one gets sick enough to go looking for that poor baby's grave!!

If she was very young, and she was, she may have thought thats what ya do. 

Until I was 18. I thought everyone's Great Grandparents sent a silver dollar in the mail for their birthday. Mine did.

[Rabbit Hutch]

Once I was allowed to bury my beloved old cat on my good friend's property.  I put as many heavy rocks on top of the grave as I could find due to the same reasons Gwen brought up.

I know nothing about the legalities of burying a fetus, so I'll give Christine a pass on this one.  It must've been hard for her.

IMHO, Gwen should've kept this familial tidbit in the vault.  For me, It's TMI.  😔

[Joan of Argh]

I bet if the fetus was from Robyn’s sacred uterus there would have been a full state funeral and 21 gun salute as the solid gold casket was lowered into the ground.

the more I find out about these people the less I like them.

I don’t have a problem with Gwen sharing the story because I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Christine couldn’t care less and would share the story herself…. It’s not like the Browns are the Miss Manners of etiquette.

 

[kassa]

On 4/1/2023 at 7:46 PM, LilyD said:

That, or Christine, Janelle and Mykelti are a lot more realistic about their fame and  worth. We all know that Meri and Kody have a hugely inflated ego. They must be convinced they’re worth it. I also doubt $150  is enough to stop nasty or annoying requests. I can see friends chipping in the money for a good prank for instance.

In my opinion, affordable cameos can be a fun, and highly appreciated present for a special occasion when you know someone to be a big fan. But 150 dollars is a lot, particularly if the celebrity comes up with a very short message like Kody. 

I saw somebody ask a celeb why their cameo rates were lower and that they could charge $150 because they were a much bigger star than x who charged $150. And she said she can do 20 a week at 50 and make a thousand, or hold out for $150 and make $300 that week. 

$50 seems like a price point that makes a fun or gag gift (my pedicure lady was very excited to show me the cameo she got as a gift from that Ed guy on 90 day fiance).

More than $50 you'd have to really be a super fan, and there aren't many.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Which one of your brilliant posters here once said it would be worth paying big bucks to get to post a Cameo TO Kody, telling him just what you think of him and getting to watch him have to listen to it?

You know, if he could find a way to actually do that, he'd make a pretty penny because I bet there would be people who would actually for over some cash to get to tell him what a wanker he is! 

[monagatuna]

It wasn't me, I just wanted to say I approve of the use of "wanker" as an appropriate description for Kody. I wish my American ass could pull off such an insult, but alas.

[Teafortwo]

10 hours ago, monagatuna said:

It wasn't me, I just wanted to say I approve of the use of "wanker" as an appropriate description for Kody. I wish my American ass could pull off such an insult, but alas.

Also the term "putz" is relevant.

[SongbirdHollow]

On 5/9/2023 at 2:08 PM, Celia Rubenstein said:

Which one of your brilliant posters here once said it would be worth paying big bucks to get to post a Cameo TO Kody, telling him just what you think of him and getting to watch him have to listen to it?

You know, if he could find a way to actually do that, he'd make a pretty penny because I bet there would be people who would actually for over some cash to get to tell him what a wanker he is! 

Might have been me? I do remember having that thought!

[GeeGolly]

Not sure where to put this...

Amazon Prime is doing a Fundy docuseries - Shiny Happy People. It appears the first episode will be about the Duggar family, Bill Gothard and the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP).

I thought some of you might be interested because its basically about the abuses of conservative faith based patriarchy. I believe the air date is June 2nd.

[Art Of Noiz]

On 5/12/2023 at 11:38 AM, SongbirdHollow said:

Might have been me? I do remember having that thought!

We could have side bets, a betting pool to see how fast he would crack. He'll turn red, tug his crispy ringlets and scream JACKWAGON!!

[SunnyBeBe]

On 5/9/2023 at 2:08 PM, Celia Rubenstein said:

Which one of your brilliant posters here once said it would be worth paying big bucks to get to post a Cameo TO Kody, telling him just what you think of him and getting to watch him have to listen to it?

You know, if he could find a way to actually do that, he'd make a pretty penny because I bet there would be people who would actually for over some cash to get to tell him what a wanker he is! 

I think that was me. Lol. Seriously, I thought it would be a good way for him to make a lot of cash.  🤣

[eskimo]

On 5/9/2023 at 12:08 PM, Celia Rubenstein said:

Which one of your brilliant posters here once said it would be worth paying big bucks to get to post a Cameo TO Kody, telling him just what you think of him and getting to watch him have to listen to it?

You know, if he could find a way to actually do that, he'd make a pretty penny because I bet there would be people who would actually for over some cash to get to tell him what a wanker he is! 

Add me to the people who think it could have been them. Lol. Seems like a popular thought. I remember posting that no rebuttals be allowed, and that a 'proof of watch' video had to be included, with NO commentary whatsoever.  I'm going to add now that eye-rolling and sighing count as commentary, so none of that either. I would allow uncomfortable repositioning in his or Robyn's chairs. 😂  

On 5/21/2023 at 8:58 AM, GeeGolly said:

Not sure where to put this...

Amazon Prime is doing a Fundy docuseries - Shiny Happy People. It appears the first episode will be about the Duggar family, Bill Gothard and the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP).

I thought some of you might be interested because its basically about the abuses of conservative faith based patriarchy. I believe the air date is June 2nd.

I had the rest of my evening planned, and then you tell me I have to wait until June 2nd. 😔  On to the list for this docuseries. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

37 minutes ago, eskimo said:

I remember posting that no rebuttals be allowed, and that a 'proof of watch' video had to be included, with NO commentary whatsoever.

That's right!  I remember now ... You get to SEE him watch it and no rebuttal allowed ... how sweet it would be to get to watch him listen to me telling him off and he just has to TAKE IT !!!

Dang it, there is money to be made off this idea, and not just with Kody.  I'd love to tell off a couple of people ... Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, to start with.  Years ago when I could still stand to watch The View I would have loved to fry Whoopi Goldberg's ass. 

I need this to become a real thing!

[Natalie68]

16 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I think that was me. Lol. Seriously, I thought it would be a good way for him to make a lot of cash.  🤣

Am I to understand correctly that you don't get to talk to the folks you are paying for the cameo, they just tape a message?  Cause that kinda stinks.