Spoiler, Speculation and Social Media

[monagatuna]

Ysabel (it kills me to spell it that way, but it's not her fault her parents misspelled her name) is such a pretty young woman and she looks like she's feeling great. I am so happy for her and hope her recovery was quick and as painless as possible. And of course it's hilarious that she outgrew her dad. He jokes about it but I'm sure he's seething inside, just as he is when his sons are more successful or stronger than he is. It's completely reminiscent of FLDS patriarchs past, he's threatened by the younger men now that they're stronger and more manly than he is. It's so pathetic and so obvious.

[deirdra]

On 12/17/2021 at 8:33 AM, Adiba said:

Kody has the “luxury” of decreeing that he won’t visit because he lives with Robyn full-time, which I suspect has been the case even well before the pandemic.

I wish Janelle had the backbone to tell Kootie "You've lived >6 months with only Robyn, so will you live the next 6 months with only me if I send the boys away?  If not, I'd rather have the boys around to help every day than you rarely!"

Edited December 20, 2021 by deirdra

[Elodia]

15 hours ago, monagatuna said:

Ysabel (it kills me to spell it that way

I don't mind the spelling of Ysabel, I think this is how it is spelled in Spain (Hilaria Baldwin would agree 😉) but I don't get the way Christine spelled Gwendlyn (although they call her "GwendOlyn") and Truely. In the meantime it has gotten to the point where I truly have to think twice when I write the word "truly". 

[deirdra]

8 hours ago, Elodia said:

I don't mind the spelling of Ysabel, I think this is how it is spelled in Spain (Hilaria Baldwin would agree 😉) but I don't get the way Christine spelled Gwendlyn (although they call her "GwendOlyn") and Truely. In the meantime it has gotten to the point where I truly have to think twice when I write the word "truly". 

Back when she was the lowly basement wife taking care of 12-13 kids with little to no help from her sisterwives or partial husband, the only freedom she had was spelling.

All her kids got a Y (Why?) in their name except Paedon. Is that because he wore Y-fronts or because Payton/Paydon is the more conventional spelling and she could only assert her plygness with unconventional spellings?

Edited December 21, 2021 by deirdra

[crazycatlady58]

10 minutes ago, deirdra said:

Back when she was the lowly basement wife taking care of 12-13 kids with little to no help from her sisterwives or partial husband, the only freedom she had was spelling.

All her kids got a Y (Why?) in their name except Paedon. Is that because he wore Y-fronts or because Payton/Paydon is the more conventional spelling and she could only assert her plygness with unconventional spellings?

From my understanding they use the Y to honor Brigham Young.

[Pickleinthemiddle]

22 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

From my understanding they use the Y to honor Brigham Young.

I've heard it's just a Utah thing to have a very odd spelling for kids names, but heavy on the Y.  I know a few people in Utah that are not of the Mormon groups and they also do it.

[deirdra]

36 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

From my understanding they use the Y to honor Brigham Young.

why not the boys too?

[Sasha888]

3 hours ago, deirdra said:

All her kids got a Y (Why?) in their name except Paedon. Is that because he wore Y-fronts or because Payton/Paydon is the more conventional spelling and she could only assert her plygness with unconventional spellings?

This drives me nuts. All those kids and all those Y's, and then she gets the one kid that should have a Y in his name and she leaves it out. Peydon/Peyton/Paydon/Payton, PICK ONE, Christine!

It's like being around someone who sings "99 bottles of beer on the wall" for hours, gets all the way down to ONE bottle of beer on the wall, and just stops.

You just want to throttle them. 😂

[crazycatlady58]

3 hours ago, deirdra said:

why not the boys too?

 No idea.

[Teafortwo]

Maybe because he has a Y chromosome?

 

[ginger90]

 

Clip:

 

 

[ginger90]

 

 

.

”Bonus scene” clip:

 

 

[ginger90]

 

One more clip:

 

 

[xwordfanatik]

I hate Kootie.  I hate Robyn.

Liars.

[Ms.Lulu]

The absolute disgust that Christine has for Kootie and his anger at Christine, if we didn't already know the outcome, it is clear now. 

Game over.

[Elodia]

Wow. Just. Wow. What a bunch of liars Kody and Robyn are. Of course it is a touchy subject, Robyn, because it's the truth. And Kody always, ALWAYS, comes to Robyn's defense. When Robyn denied she was behind all those rules in a very bitchy manner, did you see the faces of the other wives? Speaks volumes. I loved it! God, I despise Robyn and Kody so much! 

[monagatuna]

On 12/21/2021 at 9:41 AM, crazycatlady58 said:

From my understanding they use the Y to honor Brigham Young.

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

On 12/21/2021 at 10:18 AM, deirdra said:

why not the boys too?

Boys are a threat to creepy old dudes who marry young girls. No one expects them to stay in the community past adulthood. That'd be my guess.

[Elodia]

10 minutes ago, monagatuna said:

Boys are a threat to creepy old dudes who marry young girls. No one expects them to stay in the community past adulthood. That'd be my guess.

Or maybe Christine thought Paedon already had a Y in his chromosomes and didn't need an additional one 😉

[Just Wondering]

6 hours ago, ginger90 said:

 

One more clip:

 

 

LOL! Robyn looked pissed af when Meri made her little joke about the made up rules, but Meri only mentions Kody’s negative reaction. Also, this joke was obviously and childishly pointed at Christine and Janelle, so I’m not too sad it backfired on her.  Did Meri think her mean-girl support of Robyn was actually distinguishing Meri herself from the unwanted wives? Because, newsflash… 

This little vignette was also pretty expositive of Meri’s generally stunted and off-putting demeanor. It’s also expositive of how Meri’s disturbingly toadyish role of lady in waiting to the queen has never actually gotten Meri anywhere with the king. 

And these detailed rules that pointedly focus on basic cleanliness, partnered with Kody’s TH that focuses on laziness, seem to be more for the purpose of suggesting to the world at large that C and J are filthy garbage monkeys with diseased hands, who have to be schooled. Someone is peddling this narrative super hard.
Also!! Robyn’s little embarrassed, you-caught-us laughter about the months it took to come up with these rules.  She expects us to believe she thought nothing amiss with that during those months?
 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Just Wondering

[deirdra]

I haven't heard Kootie say "these are MY rules, not Robyn's".  He keeps dodging and just tells the other wives not to blame Robyn and Robyn says she didn't write them.

If Kootie had been staying with one of the non-Robyn wives when the Covid lockdowns began, would "he" have compiled the same list?

Edited December 25, 2021 by deirdra

[Tuxcat]

I am really hating this season because I'm torn in two. I despise Kody and I do think Robyn is using the COVID situation to her advantage. But from a theoretical point of view I am still on Kody's side when it comes to large family gatherings prior to the roll out of the vaccine. The post holiday surge in 2020 was devastating and Christine and Janelle were repeatedly traveling, mixing and mingling all over the place.  Even Christine said "When I'm home, I follow the rules." Just based on principle alone I understand Kody's stance - Fall 2020. It makes me so angry because I dislike him in every single other aspect. I want to be on Christine's side but I can't be. Why can't she just agree to not travel/visit for a little while so Ysabel can hang out at Robyns?

I can say that Kody and Christine's communication on the matter stinks. and lastly, I am not sure why they couldn't all compromise and just do more outside distanced family visits.

 

[ginger90]

8 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

, I am not sure why they couldn't all compromise and just do more outside distanced family visits.

Because Robyn didn’t want that?

[Tuxcat]

2 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Because Robyn didn’t want that?

Robyn said that she would be fine with outside visits when she was talking about Hunter. I assume it would be the same with the others. I think Christine wants a large inside gathering for Thanksgiving - and that's the sticking point.

[Adiba]

I have a feeling that once Christine heard about the nanny and her husband coming and going at Kody and Robyn’s, she didn’t really think the rules were being followed by them 100% either and that they were being hypocritical.

Kody for sure wasn’t staying locked down. He couldn’t go a few weeks away from Robyn,  but expected the rest of the family to go more than six months without any socializing? 
The virus is out there, sure. But it’s not just going to “ disappear” even with vaccines. What would Kody want, to keep these rules forever?

[iwantcookies]

Ah I get it so it would be

Adym

Brendyn

Chrystyne

Dyane

Elyjah

Fynn

Gordyn

Huntyr

Illyana

Jaydyn

Kaydyn

Lyndyn

Madysyn

Nycole

Owyn

Paytyn

Quyntyn

Ryley

Symyn

Tymothy 

Uryel 

Vyctorya 

Wyllyam 

Xavyer 

Yzabellyn 

Zyon 

[MsTree]

I still don't understand why the kids (and wives for that matter) can't just wear masks indoors? IMO, it's better than not seeing anyone at all.

[Kellyee]

The rules aren't as bad as I thought they might be. I was following almost all of them at one point or another. But how do Kody and Robyn know the nanny is actually following these rules when she's not at their house? If they're that concerned about Covid, why can't Kody and Robyn look after their two small children, when neither of them appear to be doing anything else like working? I can't wait to see this episode.

[Adiba]

17 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Robyn said that she would be fine with outside visits when she was talking about Hunter. I assume it would be the same with the others. I think Christine wants a large inside gathering for Thanksgiving - and that's the sticking point.

Robyn says a lot of things. I think that her being “fine” with Hunter was akin to saying, “let’s do lunch.”

For the money spent on other things, the Browns could’ve rented large catering tents for Thanksgiving and space heaters on the property.  They could’ve worn masks when not eating and had fire pits outside.  I bet Robyn didn’t want to have to watch her kids and make sure they were being safe, like she complained about in a previous episode.

[xwordfanatik]

2 hours ago, Kellyee said:

The rules aren't as bad as I thought they might be. I was following almost all of them at one point or another. But how do Kody and Robyn know the nanny is actually following these rules when she's not at their house? If they're that concerned about Covid, why can't Kody and Robyn look after their two small children, when neither of them appear to be doing anything else like working? I can't wait to see this episode.

PLUS 3 young adults that don't appear to be doing anythingk (except for maybe online college classes?) Since Kootie appeared to be disapproving of Garrison having outside employment, it's likely none of the inhabitants of Robyn's mansion have jobs.  

[ginger90]

 

Clip:

 

 

[LilyD]

I think Kody and Robyn stick to their rigid Covid rules when it meets their needs and when it's convenient.

Let's loosen up when:

• Robyn needs new Victoria Secret items
• Robyn needs a nanny so she can sleep
• Robyn needs a nanny so she can have some alone time with Kody
• Kody needs to have alone time (with the babysit?)
• The two of them need to get away on very "urgent" business

Let's stick to the rules when:

• There's a chance that any of the other wives (or all) show up
• There's a chance that any of the other wives suggest meeting up
• There's a chance that any of the other wives need money or anything else
• There is a chance that any of the other wives or kids want some attention

[Tuxcat]

4 hours ago, Adiba said:

Robyn says a lot of things. I think that her being “fine” with Hunter was akin to saying, “let’s do lunch.”

For the money spent on other things, the Browns could’ve rented large catering tents for Thanksgiving and space heaters on the property.  They could’ve worn masks when not eating and had fire pits outside.  I bet Robyn didn’t want to have to watch her kids and make sure they were being safe, like she complained about in a previous episode.

In today's episode Christine's sticking point is "inside." She wouldn't want to do the outside or masked thing. 

That being said I also agree that Robyn seems to prefer being cocooned vs. trying to reach out and find ways to facilitate more outside gatherings. 

[gingerella]

Can someone please confirm for me that Christine has indeed actually left this asshole family and moved away for good? Thanks!

[Ms.Lulu]

Yes, Christine announced it on Instagram/Twitter and Kody confirmed publicly.

And the PT sleuths have confirmed she lives in Utah.

[Lsk02]

3 hours ago, gingerella said:

Can someone please confirm for me that Christine has indeed actually left this asshole family and moved away for good? Thanks!

She definitely left, both she and Kody posted on social media and did interviews with some regular media. Whether it’s “for good” or not, only time will tell. But she seems to be very much enjoying her single mom life near her adult children and granddaughter, for now. 

[Tuxcat]

2 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

She definitely left, both she and Kody posted on social media and did interviews with some regular media. Whether it’s “for good” or not, only time will tell. But she seems to be very much enjoying her single mom life near her adult children and granddaughter, for now. 

We should add though... 

I believe I read on Reddit that Christine said she still talks to Kody every day (which is funny because the show would have us believe that they only talk every few weeks if at all).

Edited December 27, 2021 by Tuxcat

[deirdra]

1 minute ago, Tuxcat said:

I believe I read on Reddit that Christine said she still talks to Kody to every day (which is funny because the show would have us believe that they only talk every few weeks if at all).

Perhaps she wants to seem like she is still in the loop to generate more Cameo traffic

[gingerella]

19 hours ago, deirdra said:

19 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

I believe I read on Reddit that Christine said she still talks to Kody to every day (which is funny because the show would have us believe that they only talk every few weeks if at all).

Perhaps she wants to seem like she is still in the loop to generate more Cameo traffic

Hey, whatever she needs to do to get away from this toxic fuckface asshole and his menagerie of dysfunctional hangers on!

[lamadeleine]

Quote

This little vignette was also pretty expositive of Meri’s generally stunted and off-putting demeanor.

Yes. Robyn was on her so fast that Meri didn't have time to start proclaiming that "her walls were up".

I thought it was fascinating when Meri said, in reference to Robyn, "I'm glad that she's okay with me...cuz I don't like it when she's not."  This statement needs some serious unpacking.

[Teafortwo]

Pure speculation, but it occurred to me that most of the people I know who seemed not to be exercising any caution in the first 6-9 months of the pandemic (ie pre-vaccines), all confessed at some point to having had covid early on. It's quite possible that the same is true for any of the Browns, children and adults alike. Which would, of course, explain the seeming carelessness of some when it comes to the rules. 

I have an acquaintance who had all the covid symptoms in Dec. 2019. He continues to assume he's immune which, to my mind, is reckless. I haven't and won't see him until all of this is past.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Teafortwo

[Sasha888]

17 hours ago, lamadeleine said:

I thought it was fascinating when Meri said, in reference to Robyn, "I'm glad that she's okay with me...cuz I don't like it when she's not."  This statement needs some serious unpacking.

This is a very good point. Some interesting things in this episode are being overlooked because we're all focusing on Covid rules and the obvious seething resentment between Kody & Christine - I mean, rightly so, it's what most of the stuff is about right now but there were also some interesting group dynamics at the 10 million commandments meeting.

This statement you mentioned is SO un-Meri-like. This is not the bulldozer woman of the past who would cry and get loud and dramatic to get what she wants. She acts very afraid of Robyn.

I think Meri knows Christine and Janelle and most of their kids are done with her. She knows Kody will only speak to her when it's absolutely necessary. The only foothold she has in this whole family is Robyn.

I've been wondering for some time, in regards to their "friendship", what's in it for Robyn? Because she doesn't do anything unless there's something in it for her...and I think this is it - power. She is Meri's last link to the group, and the reason she doesn't cut her off cold like the rest of them have is because Robyn loves the power she has and the groveling she can make Meri do.

I'm no Meri fan and I pretty much think she's getting what she deserves, but Robyn is horrible.

Meri got in her passive/aggressive dig, though. "I'm glad you have Kody and your kids." She didn't mean that genuinely. She might be afraid of her, but she couldn't resist saying that.

[lamadeleine]

Quote

This statement you mentioned is SO un-Meri-like. This is not the bulldozer woman of the past who would cry and get loud and dramatic to get what she wants. She acts very afraid of Robyn.

Yeah, it was weird. I kept wondering (ok, I'm still wondering)....what exactly happens when Robyn "isn't okay" with Meri?? It sounds so ominous.

Jumping off what you said about Robyn's investment in her relationship with Meri- I think you're on to something when you say it's about power. Meri was the top dog when Robyn came into the picture. Christine and Janelle were never in that position and so, not ultimately worth sucking up to. Robyn quickly realized what she was bringing to the table (besides more kids and considerable debt)- she was now the youngest, prettiest*, and definitely ready to procreate and populate Planet Kody with even more children. Meri couldn't offer any of those things, had already exhausted the fambly with her difficult personality, and quickly went from Queen to Lady in Waiting/Robyn's favorite whipping dog.  Meri is the way that Robyn can constantly build herself up by keeping others down because Meri actually cares about having a relationship with her- if for no other reason, to keep herself in proximity to Ari/Sol/Kody. I don't sense Janelle or Christine have any personal need to be friends with Robyn...she's someone to be negotiated at this point.

*subjective opinion, I know.

[Tuxcat]

52 minutes ago, Sasha888 said:

This is a very good point. Some interesting things in this episode are being overlooked because we're all focusing on Covid rules and the obvious seething resentment between Kody & Christine - I mean, rightly so, it's what most of the stuff is about right now but there were also some interesting group dynamics at the 10 million commandments meeting.

This statement you mentioned is SO un-Meri-like. This is not the bulldozer woman of the past who would cry and get loud and dramatic to get what she wants. She acts very afraid of Robyn.

I think Meri knows Christine and Janelle and most of their kids are done with her. She knows Kody will only speak to her when it's absolutely necessary. The only foothold she has in this whole family is Robyn.

I've been wondering for some time, in regards to their "friendship", what's in it for Robyn? Because she doesn't do anything unless there's something in it for her...and I think this is it - power. She is Meri's last link to the group, and the reason she doesn't cut her off cold like the rest of them have is because Robyn loves the power she has and the groveling she can make Meri do.

I'm no Meri fan and I pretty much think she's getting what she deserves, but Robyn is horrible.

Meri got in her passive/aggressive dig, though. "I'm glad you have Kody and your kids." She didn't mean that genuinely. She might be afraid of her, but she couldn't resist saying that.

It's very interesting. I've been watching some of the earlier episodes to try to figure out Robyn. I think she genuinely believes herself. When she talked about wanting the sister wives and the beauty of the plural family,  I think she had this romantic vision of what polygamy should look like. Women having babies together, loving each other, built in best friends plus a big family... But in reality, she wanted to be the master of that entire domain and not just a subserviant participant.

In earlier episodes, she talked frequently about being somewhat deceived by the family. Meri "abandoned" her. Christine has been resentful. Janelle was checked out. I think she blames the other wives for failing in polygamy. Initially Robyn thought of herself as a savior rather than a disruptor. As such, more and more we hear Kody saying the same things. Robyn saw herself as the peacekeeper but even with all her good deeds - she wasn't able to overcome the tragic failure by the other wives.  Kody and Robyn feel let down. Kody feels it's the other wives that failed.That's the story they tell themselves. It isn't at all the real story but it's what they sell to each other. "We tried -- but those other wives couldn't hack it."

Meri's only tie to the family is through Robyn. She can't afford to make her mad. Everyone else has rejected Meri. So it makes sense that Meri would be afraid to make Robyn mad. I've said it before but if Meri were to let that tie go, it would be - to her - an admission that the first thirty years of her life were all a failure. She would have to admit that she was indeed a factor in that failure. By keeping a foot in with Robyn and Kody, Meri can can play the blame game alongside. "Look. I stayed. It's those other wives that couldn't hack it."

Same for Robyn. By keeping Meri in the fold she is able to appear as if she is still very much in favor of polygamy. "We tried - but those other wives couldn't do it...." If Robyn cuts Meri loose too - her claim to be in favor of polygamy seems less credible. So I think it's less about power and more about trying to maintain the false image she sells to everyone - including to herself.

[lamadeleine]

Quote

So I think it's less about power and more about trying to maintain the false image she sells to everyone - including to herself.

You bring up some really interesting points here. I think it's "yes, and" for me. I totally agree that Robyn is working (rilly, rilly hard) to maintain an image and control the family/personal narrative; this fantasy she's constructed where she is the one who rilly tried to be the family savior and peacemaker, and all the other wives are to blame for the crumbling fambly culture. I guess, for me, that is ultimately about needing/wanting power, but I don't think Robyn would ever characterize her actions as such- like you say, she's fully bought into the lies she tells herself about herself. I think she truly believes she's a victim and good person (cue the manipulative tears and passive-aggression).

[Adiba]

The thing about Robyn is, she’s never had to really deal with some of the negatives of polygamy. She never had to share a home with the other wives, nor watch her husband marry and impregnate a new wife. She hasn’t had to watch the other wives children or work outside of the home and contribute a portion of her paycheck to the family. And now she has a large home to herself and her kids —with a nanny. So it’s easy for her to champion polygamy and cast herself as some sort of savior.

[deirdra]

1 hour ago, lamadeleine said:

Jumping off what you said about Robyn's investment in her relationship with Meri- I think you're on to something when you say it's about power. Meri was the top dog when Robyn came into the picture.

I agree with your whole analysis. Probably the only thing Meri gets out of the relationship now is seeing that Robyn is unhappy with Kootie 24/7.

I must confess to using almost the same line as Meri on someone who constantly whined about not being able to live normally - "I'm so happy you have (husband name) and kids".  It shuts them up because they aren't sure you mean it sincerely or if you are reminding them that 25% of seniors live alone and have been mostly in isolation for the past 18 months.  

Edited December 28, 2021 by deirdra

[LilyD]

6 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Meri's only tie to the family is through Robyn. She can't afford to make her mad. Everyone else has rejected Meri. So it makes sense that Meri would be afraid to make Robyn mad……….

Same for Robyn. By keeping Meri in the fold she is able to appear as if she is still very much in favor of polygamy. "We tried - but those other wives couldn't do it...." 

I cut out some of your text to highlight some excellent points you made. I think you’re 100% spot on with your analysis. Meri is clamping to this thin life line that sort of still connects her to the family. And Robyn needs her to keep the polygamy show going. She is the easiest and best option of the two remaining, since Kody doesn’t want her anyway, so she will never be a serious threat to her own marriage.

Janelle may be a serious threat, because she and Kody remain good friends and she has never given Kody a hard time, he might prefer the peace and quiet time in the end. (Meaning that Janelle is the next target to eliminate from the marriage)

Edited December 29, 2021 by LilyD

[Libby]

2 hours ago, LilyD said:

I cut out some of your tex to highlight some excellent points you made. I think you’re 100% spot on with your analysis. Meri is clamping to this thin life line that sort of still connects her to the family. And Robyn needs her to keep the polygamy show going. She is the easiest and best option of the two remaining, since Kody doesn’t want her anyway, so she will never be a serious threat to her own marriage.

Janelle may be a serious threat, because she and Kody remain good friends and she has never given Kody a hard time, he might prefer the peace and quiet time in the end. (Meaning that Janelle is the next target to eliminate from the marriage)

It's a long shot, but I really hope that Janelle is the one that Robyn can't beat.

Janelle asks nothing of Kody. He gets no stress from her. If she doesn't want to do what he says, she calmly says no and goes about her business. She doesn't play into Robyn's manipulations. She doesn't fight or get emotional. She puts out this vibe that she loves Kody, but she can easily live without him.

Kody seems to like Janelle. He honestly seems to care what she thinks and what she does. When she left the marriage before, he wanted her back and got her back.

Janelle is the dark horse. She just might win. Like I said, it's a long shot, but Janelle may outlast Robyn.

I would absolutely love it, if it happened. I can't stand the thought of Robyn totally getting her way in this thing.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Libby

[Awfarmington]

17 minutes ago, Libby said:

It's a long shot, but I really hope that Janelle is the one that Robyn can't beat.

Janelle asks nothing of Kody. He gets no stress from her. If she doesn't want to do what he says, she calmly says no and goes about her business. She doesn't play into Robyn's manipulations. She doesn't fight or get emotional.

Kody seems to like Janelle. He honestly seems to care what she thinks and what she does. When she left before, he wanted and got her back.

Janelle is the dark horse. She just might win. Like I said, it's a long shot, but Janelle may outlast Robyn.

I would absolutely love it, if it happened. I can't stand the thought of Robyn totally getting her way in this thing.

I hope you’re right…with a twist. Once Janelle comes out on top, she kicks Kody to the curb. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Meri is clamping to this thin life line that sort of still connects her to the family. And Robyn needs her to keep the polygamy show going. She is the easiest and best option of the two remaining, since Kody doesn’t want her anyway, so she will never be a serious threat to her own marriage.

I didn't watch the earlier seasons so I've only ever "known" the Browns with Robyn. I understand that Robyn and Meri don't like one another but Meri does seem to genuinely love Robyn's two youngest children. I wonder if part of the reason Robyn tolerates Meri is that she is hedging her bets for the day that they can no longer afford a nanny and she needs free childcare...