S02.E12: Reunion

[AntFTW]

Quote

The cast of “The Traitors” airs their grievances regarding murders, banishments and treachery.

Air date: March 7, 2024

[Thalia]

John:  it was a game.  A game.  A GAME!  

I want that to be my new ringtone.  I will probably finish this tomorrow. 

I got tired of the poor loser behavior during the first 15 minutes.  I can only assume it will get worse.

[funnygirl]

Phaedra calling Dan a piece of shit was hilarious. And she's not wrong.

His flimsy excuse for outing her, when literally no one had her on their radar, was weak. He acts like he couldn't have won with his fellow traitor(s). Dan isn't stupid, he wanted to give the faithfuls the advantage. They were already suspicious of Parvati and he knew no one suspected Phaedra. And since he couldn't win, he didn't want the other traitors to win, either. What he did wasn't "game play". He was butt hurt and petty. 

A piece of shit, indeed. 

As for the rules, the traitors "oath" is useless. 

[Irlandesa]

2 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

And since he couldn't win, he didn't want the other traitors to win, either. What he did wasn't "game play". He was butt hurt and petty. 

I'd agree with this if he hadn't already made so many boneheaded decisions as a traitor that ultimately doomed his own game. I don't think it out of pettiness.  I do think he thought he was smarter than he was with his stuff like "looking 10 steps into the future" stuff he was trying to claim in the reunion. 

I don't buy CT didn't know that Kate was the traitor.  I suspect he recognized the numbers. 

[Sweet-n-Snarky]

Honestly,  the superiority  complex of the "gamers" is annoying, and then they turn around and talk about it being "just a game" and then invalidate the others' feelings when they aren't any better.

Dan TOTALLY threw Phaedra under the bus because he was mad that "a housewife" got over on him and was coming across as the better Traitor. If it was about saving his butt, Parvati was the more logical choice to feed to everyone. If it wasn't personal and just game, he, as a gamer, wouldn't feel the need to manipulate the game when he knew his goose was cooked.  He threw her under the bus well after he knew he was done, so every measly excuse he gave to explain his actions didn't even hold up.

And yet, because he was butt hurt and pulled this move to be petty because he was bitter and resentful, she isn't supposed to be annoyed by it? Honestly, as a gamer, Dan's move wasn't even a respectable one. And yet the sentiment is that SHE was too sensitive.

Trishelle literally rallied against Peppermint because her feelings got her over something stupid (and because of her routine showcase of implicit bias that ironically even viewers, especially POC, with no background on her picked up immediately...) even when there were about as much innocuous suspicious behavior from John and Parvati, and got Peppermint sent home. Trishelle pitched a fit and threw a tantrum because CT didn't cater and kowtoe to her multiple times. She acted like a petulant child about shields and even targeted people when she didn't get them. She whined to the camera endlessly about the dumbest stuff. But, nope, "it's just a game" when any of the non-gamers are in the feelings about stuff? 

She would've succeeded in getting rid of CT without even speaking to him because of the vote switch up. But she doesn't understand why MK would be upset that they screwed her over but won't even own up to it being a game move to win more money and instead keep making it seem like they just couldn't be sure about if MJ was a traitor, when they knew she was faithful. 

Being a gamer is also about owning your moves, and even at the reunion they were making it seem like they got rid of MJ just to be on the safe side when it's clear as day that they always planned on only taking each other to the end to split the money. Which is fine. Just own it and stop treating her like she was too stupid to grasp that's what they did. 

So much of the non-gamers sensitivities have been because the gamers came in from the start treating all of these other people like they were stupid and didn't deserve to be there and being condescending. And then gaslighting them for being reasonably upset about the disrespect and spouting "it's just a game" like they're somehow exempt from being just as emotional, reactive, petty etc.

Ironically, many of the non gamers are also familiar with being emotional for the drama and moving on or whatever. 

I loved many of the gamers and enjoyed them on their shows. But it certainly was offputting to see their weird superiority complex when they were just as bad.

I'm pretty sure Janelle has been trashing Tamra from kingdom come and I know it's more than a few people from Big Brother she has beef with.

And part of the appeal of Parvati and Sandra being there was their longstanding beef. 

Bananas even attempting to agree with "its just a game" given his own track record of being emotional as heck is crazy.

I didn't think it was a matter of there being "sore losers" here but more so the condescension and disrespect that was underlying in the things that happened. I don't think MJ would've been as pissed off if they didn't keep speaking to her like she was a kindergartener and lying about why they got rid of her instead of just being honest.

I don't think Phaedra would have cared about Dan at all if he didn't spend the first part of the game treating her like she was too stupid to make decisions (something she took advantage of) and then ruined her game because he probably thought it would come across iconic but instead it just made him annoying and tipped the scales too much.

And I know everyone gets really antsy about race and gender. But an added layer to why people like Phaedra and MJ were still in their feelings about this is because, unfortunately, the disrespect, however unintentional, is microsaggressive as hell, which IS personal and likely does contribute to why they're so irked.

Phaedra wasn't pissed at Peter because even though he was annoying, she respected how he was playing the game and knew it was just a game. 

MJ had a few run ins with other contestants that were no biggie and therefore not worth her ire. Because she knew it was just a game.

I just don't think Phaedra and MJ's feelings about Dan, Trishell, and CT given the circumstances are invalid. 

[MicheleinPhilly]

I despise Andy Cohen so these reunions are always like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. 

As someone who doesn't think MJ really did all of that much in terms of contributions to the game - either in challenges or discussing strategy - I wish that CT and Trishelle would have just said something to the effect of "We didn't feel like you deserved a third of the pot" rather than trying to kiss her ass with disingenuousness. 

But the whole "I blocked you on Instagram" made me laugh out loud. Good lord, these people are like children. 🙄

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, Sweet-n-Snarky said:

Honestly,  the superiority  complex of the "gamers" is annoying, and then they turn around and talk about it being "just a game" and then invalidate the others' feelings when they aren't any better.

Dan TOTALLY threw Phaedra under the bus because he was mad that "a housewife" got over on him and was coming across as the better Traitor. If it was about saving his butt, Parvati was the more logical choice to feed to everyone. If it wasn't personal and just game, he, as a gamer, wouldn't feel the need to manipulate the game when he knew his goose was cooked.  He threw her under the bus well after he knew he was done, so every measly excuse he gave to explain his actions didn't even hold up.

And yet, because he was butt hurt and pulled this move to be petty because he was bitter and resentful, she isn't supposed to be annoyed by it? Honestly, as a gamer, Dan's move wasn't even a respectable one. And yet the sentiment is that SHE was too sensitive.

Trishelle literally rallied against Peppermint because her feelings got her over something stupid (and because of her routine showcase of implicit bias that ironically even viewers, especially POC, with no background on her picked up immediately...) even when there were about as much innocuous suspicious behavior from John and Parvati, and got Peppermint sent home. Trishelle pitched a fit and threw a tantrum because CT didn't cater and kowtoe to her multiple times. She acted like a petulant child about shields and even targeted people when she didn't get them. She whined to the camera endlessly about the dumbest stuff. But, nope, "it's just a game" when any of the non-gamers are in the feelings about stuff? 

She would've succeeded in getting rid of CT without even speaking to him because of the vote switch up. But she doesn't understand why MK would be upset that they screwed her over but won't even own up to it being a game move to win more money and instead keep making it seem like they just couldn't be sure about if MJ was a traitor, when they knew she was faithful. 

Being a gamer is also about owning your moves, and even at the reunion they were making it seem like they got rid of MJ just to be on the safe side when it's clear as day that they always planned on only taking each other to the end to split the money. Which is fine. Just own it and stop treating her like she was too stupid to grasp that's what they did. 

So much of the non-gamers sensitivities have been because the gamers came in from the start treating all of these other people like they were stupid and didn't deserve to be there and being condescending. And then gaslighting them for being reasonably upset about the disrespect and spouting "it's just a game" like they're somehow exempt from being just as emotional, reactive, petty etc.

Ironically, many of the non gamers are also familiar with being emotional for the drama and moving on or whatever. 

I loved many of the gamers and enjoyed them on their shows. But it certainly was offputting to see their weird superiority complex when they were just as bad.

I'm pretty sure Janelle has been trashing Tamra from kingdom come and I know it's more than a few people from Big Brother she has beef with.

And part of the appeal of Parvati and Sandra being there was their longstanding beef. 

Bananas even attempting to agree with "its just a game" given his own track record of being emotional as heck is crazy.

I didn't think it was a matter of there being "sore losers" here but more so the condescension and disrespect that was underlying in the things that happened. I don't think MJ would've been as pissed off if they didn't keep speaking to her like she was a kindergartener and lying about why they got rid of her instead of just being honest.

I don't think Phaedra would have cared about Dan at all if he didn't spend the first part of the game treating her like she was too stupid to make decisions (something she took advantage of) and then ruined her game because he probably thought it would come across iconic but instead it just made him annoying and tipped the scales too much.

And I know everyone gets really antsy about race and gender. But an added layer to why people like Phaedra and MJ were still in their feelings about this is because, unfortunately, the disrespect, however unintentional, is microsaggressive as hell, which IS personal and likely does contribute to why they're so irked.

Phaedra wasn't pissed at Peter because even though he was annoying, she respected how he was playing the game and knew it was just a game. 

MJ had a few run ins with other contestants that were no biggie and therefore not worth her ire. Because she knew it was just a game.

I just don't think Phaedra and MJ's feelings about Dan, Trishell, and CT given the circumstances are invalid. 

👏👏👏

[AntFTW]

I think about Dan's "fear" of going to the end with other traitors. I want to say it doesn't make sense but on the other end, the rules and pattern of the game can change. It seems like a traitor would always need to bring another traitor as a sacrificial lamb that they can throw under the bus at the final roundtable or at the "Fire of Truth."

In this season, there was a murder and then a final roundtable. The murder clearly indicates there is still a traitor in the game when they're at the final roundtable. The faithfuls need to feel like they got the final traitor. If they don't get that traitor at the final roundtable, then they're clearly bringing a traitor to the end, the "Fire of Truth."

I rewatched Season 1, and it was a little tricky because the remaining traitors didn't murder anyone at that final meeting in the turret. The group had a roundtable and banished a traitor, then the traitors met in the turret but there was no murder, and then the group did another roundtable to get down to four players. Because there was no murder before the final roundtable, I can see how that gave the illusion of there being no more traitors when you get to the end.

[AntFTW]

Quote

 

[Ivana Tinkle]

Peter and Ekin-Su? Ugh, gag me. I wish she hadn't been sitting right behind CT/Trishelle because all I could focus on were her gigantic spherical breasts on display. They were mesmerizing, but in a gross way.

I've read that Parvati is in a relationship with a woman and I genuinely don't know anything about her since I've never seen Survivor but I always felt there was a vibe between her and Dan during the show since it felt like they were ALWAYS around each other (even before she was a Traitor) and I got that again last night. Anyone else? 

Speaking of Dan, you did absolutely nothing to redeem yourself and, in fact, almost made yourself look worse. You did Phaedra dirty, admit it. I wish Andy would've asked everyone who suspected Phaedra BEFORE Dan threw her under the bus, not the other way around. I still feel like she got screwed.

Finally, SHUT UP MJ.

 

 

[Ms.Lulu]

So many thoughts on MJ.

MJ is entitled to feel angry and betrayed and they are entitled to not GAF. Sandra said it best, she stuck to the traitors knowing they would keep her around--she had a strategy. 

Gamers do seem to have an advantage. Last year it was won by a Survivor. This year the top 5 had 2 Challengers, 1 Survivor, a clear traitor and MJ.

MJ clearly thought the game was over when it wasn't. She forgot that the gold wasn't a prize for endurance. Rather it was for strategy.

I thought it was entirely reasonable for them to banish MJ and I don't think they owe her an explanation or should feel guilty.

They played the game better. To the victor go the spoils.

Edited March 8 by Ms.Lulu

[DEL901]

11 minutes ago, Ms.Lulu said:

They played the game better. To the victor go the spoils.

Especially since without the victors, especially CT, there wouldn’t be very many spoils.  

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Ivana Tinkle said:

I've read that Parvati is in a relationship with a woman and I genuinely don't know anything about her since I've never seen Survivor but I always felt there was a vibe between her and Dan during the show since it felt like they were ALWAYS around each other (even before she was a Traitor) and I got that again last night. Anyone else? 

100% agree. I know Dan's married but he was up Parvati's ass the whole time he was there. It was a bit much lol. And they were sitting so close to each other at the reunion that their arms were constantly touching.

[MartyQui]

I would have outed Phaedra too…she was clearly in a bloc that was going to carry her to the end.  And I’m sorry, but all the “bless you” stuff just turned my stomach.  I can’t stand her and her eyelashes.

MJ…I agree with John.  It’s a game, and you didn’t contribute to the pot, so why should you share it?  I do agree that CT and Trishelle should have said that, it would have been a hard stop.

I hope that they invite Peppermint and a couple of other members of the RuPaul cohort next year…I think they’d be great contestants. 

[Sweet-n-Snarky]

3 hours ago, Ivana Tinkle said:

Speaking of Dan, you did absolutely nothing to redeem yourself and, in fact, almost made yourself look worse. You did Phaedra dirty, admit it. I wish Andy would've asked everyone who suspected Phaedra BEFORE Dan threw her under the bus, not the other way around. I still feel like she got screwed.

In one of Sandra's interviews she said that nobody was onto Phaedra before Dan blew up her game and that the people claiming they were now are lying and kidding themselves. 

I don't care for the goalpost moving that the gamers keep doing when it comes to what is and isn't appropriate for the game because they feel they're  the authority on how to play them.  Dan's Phaedra move was just poor sportsmanship. They can dress it however they want, but that's what that is, and I say that as a BB fan. I guarantee you if the roles were reversed and a non-gamer outed a gamer traitor, we'd hear them talking about said non-gamer being a poor sport and not having respect for the integrity of the game.

 

[Scribex]

 

I had to laugh seeing how butt hurt Phaedra and MJ were over what is at the end of the day a silly reality show competition. It’s poor sportsmanship and as John said they need to get over it.

 

As Andy pointed out via his question to Parvati, the show is called The Traitors. It’s not Friends. The whole competition is built on deceit. Phaedra, Kate, Peter, Dan, Trishelle, Sandra, CT, and pretty much everyone lied as part of the game when they thought it would work to their advantage. Some were better at it than others. Others like Sheree and MJ just coasted along and went with the herd until the very end.

 

Built it into the concept is the traitors will have to turn on each other if they want to be the last one standing as Cerie did with Ari last season.

 

I don’t really care about their personalities but in terms of winning the most money in challenges and being correct most of the time in finding traitors Trishelle and CT were better than the others so I didn’t have a problem with them winning

[Ivana Tinkle]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

100% agree. I know Dan's married but he was up Parvati's ass the whole time he was there. It was a bit much lol. And they were sitting so close to each other at the reunion that their arms were constantly touching.

Totally! I remember they showed Dan’s wife in season 14, her name is Chelsea and she definitely has a similar look to Parvati. So I guess he has a type lol.

[Rahul]

21 hours ago, funnygirl said:

As for the rules, the traitors "oath" is useless. 

That’s just not true.

From an interview with one of the producers:

Quote

As a Traitor, you are absolutely allowed to call out another Traitor as long as you are under the guise of being a Faithful. Dan was acting as a Faithful, so he could call out another Traitor. What you can't do is, when Dan was banished, he absolutely couldn't have gone, "Yeah, I'm a Traitor, and Phaedra is one too." But under the guise of a Faithful, he played within the rules. It's quite a stressful one to watch. I know Phaedra is furious with him.

 

[30 Helens]

I was surprised Andy Cohen was hosting this, as he's probably being sued by at least a couple of the contestants. I would have much preferred Alan as reunion host. ("How did you feel about your muuuhhdahhhr?")

I can't fault MJ or Phaedra for still being in their feelings. I assume this was taped right after the finale episode, so MJ had maybe 24 hours to process her betrayal. And say what you want, she was betrayed. It's a game, and they had a right to throw her aside and keep more money for themselves, but they could at least own their choice. It was the gleeful celebration with zero regard for MJ's broken heart at the final vote that kept me from cheering CT and Trishelle's win. One day later and I hadn't forgiven them, so I wouldn't expect MJ to, either. It's not about right or wrong or gameplay, it's just human decency.

I actually believed Dan's explanation for his gameplay. I don't think he was pouting or acting out against Phaedra, I really think he believed that was his only option for survival. He was playing an emotionally detached* game without loyalty, and his moves reflected that. (*Except for the move against Bergie, that was nothing but emotion and not coincidentally his fatal error.) His moves just happened to suck and his game was for shit.  I don't fault Phaedra for being pissed, any more than I fault MJ. But at least Dan owned his game, whereas CT and Trishelle continue to hide behind a fabricated cloak of MJ's sketchiness while pretending they were loyal.

I wish Janelle had been chosen as a traitor instead of Dan. She would have been so much more entertaining, and I'm sure she would have played a much better game.

Of course Peter is dating Miss Golden Globes. It just follows. 

[Irlandesa]

15 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

I can't fault MJ or Phaedra for still being in their feelings. I assume this was taped right after the finale episode, so MJ had maybe 24 hours to process her betrayal. And say what you want, she was betrayed. It's a game, and they had a right to throw her aside and keep more money for themselves, but they could at least own their choice. It was the gleeful celebration with zero regard for MJ's broken heart at the final vote that kept me from cheering CT and Trishelle's win. One day later and I hadn't forgiven them, so I wouldn't expect MJ to, either. It's not about right or wrong or gameplay, it's just human decency.

This was filmed in NY recently.  I think last week or two weeks ago. So it has been months. 

On 3/8/2024 at 12:08 AM, Sweet-n-Snarky said:

Bananas even attempting to agree with "its just a game" given his own track record of being emotional as heck is crazy.

I don't know his history but he even demonstrated his emotional side in this episode with his trying to make it seem like he was murdered just because the traitors were afraid of him.  That certainly didn't sound to me like he respected "the game" aspect of it. 

11 hours ago, Ivana Tinkle said:

I wish Andy would've asked everyone who suspected Phaedra BEFORE Dan threw her under the bus, not the other way around. I still feel like she got screwed.

Didn't he ask this?  I seem to recall people raising their hands that they hadn't suspected Phaedra until Dan threw her name out at the banishment ceremony...although someone (maybe Sandra or Peter?) said she started to get suspicious just before that ceremony because both Phaedra and Parvati said something about Peter being a bloodhound (or something similar) and this person thought it was strange they both used the same terms. 

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

...although someone (maybe Sandra or Peter?) said she started to get suspicious just before that ceremony because both Phaedra and Parvati said something about Peter being a bloodhound (or something similar) and this person thought it was strange they both used the same terms. 

It was Peter.

[SourK]

This was frustrating to watch -- for me, it was just a repetitive argument between people who are all kind of wrong. YMMV.

I thought Peppermint spoke well when she was talking about how she felt hurt and disappointed and, for her, it was about more than the show and had to do with past experiences she'd had and her fears about the current political situation, etc.

I think it's understandable that MJ is also hurt and disappointed, maybe for reasons that go beyond what happened in the show -- like, she had mentioned knowing what it was like to feel left out of a group, for example. I get why she would be upset to get to the end of the game and think, "We're all on the same team, we all like each other, everything's cool," and then have the other two people vote her out, basically just because they like each other more.

I think the issue she had at the reunion is just that she didn't know how to express any of that in the same way that Peppermint did, so she did the passive-aggressive thing where she was like, "I'm mad at you; I'm interrupting to show I'm still mad at you; I'm mad at you; acknowledge me; show me that you care about how I feel." And then the response she got was the least helpful response, which is people saying, "Well, U shouldn't B mad."

I've said it in other Traitor's threads, and I'll say it again: this show is basically designed to hurt people's feelings and make them feel bad, and that's one aspect of it that maybe isn't awesome. I think it's fair to share that, if that's what your experience was -- I just don't think she knew how.

As far as Dan/Phaedra, I actually believe he thought he could throw Phaedra under the bus to save himself. It was a move that didn't work, and it was a move that tanked her game unnecessarily because it didn't work, but I don't think he did it out of spite. I think he was just bad at being a Traitor.

[Ivana Tinkle]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Didn't he ask this?  I seem to recall people raising their hands that they hadn't suspected Phaedra until Dan threw her name out at the banishment ceremony...although someone (maybe Sandra or Peter?) said she started to get suspicious just before that ceremony because both Phaedra and Parvati said something about Peter being a bloodhound (or something similar) and this person thought it was strange they both used the same terms. 

I'm pretty sure he asked who became suspicious of Phaedra Dan called her out during the round table but not who had their suspicions before he ever said anything.

[Rae Spellman]

On 3/8/2024 at 9:03 AM, AntFTW said:

I think about Dan's "fear" of going to the end with other traitors. I want to say it doesn't make sense but on the other end, the rules and pattern of the game can change. It seems like a traitor would always need to bring another traitor as a sacrificial lamb that they can throw under the bus at the final roundtable or at the "Fire of Truth."

Did he watch other seasons? Most of the traitors absolutely sabotaged each other. So even if Phaedra wasn't inclined to do that, it was a reasonable fear. 

19 hours ago, Sweet-n-Snarky said:

In one of Sandra's interviews she said that nobody was onto Phaedra before Dan blew up her game and that the people claiming they were now are lying and kidding themselves. 

What I've heard a couple of cast members say is that at some point before Dan's banishment, Phaedra was on their ever changing "could be" list. So, Dan moved her from "who knows" to probably, not from "definitely a faithful" to probably. Also, it seems that some people didn't believe him!

Dan should have recruited Peter and murdered MJ or Sandra. Phaedra likely respond to those choices the same way she responded to Dan's choices with Pavarti and Bergie. Peter is still the very attractive, charismatic guy with the ability to lead a cult or run the castle that Phaedra said he was. But, by recruiting Peter early on, his influence might be redirected. Or Phaedra and Dan could lay back and let him implode. Phaedra could also lay back and let Dan or Peter take the other out. 

A Bachelor/Housewife traitor win with Bergie and Sheree as the duped faithfuls is possible, too if Dan is still the first traitor out and Peter/Phaedra's recruit(s) are the subsequent traitors out before the meeting at the fire. 

As a bonus, MJ isn't upset with CT and Trishelle at the reunion. 

Edited March 9 by Rae Spellman

[leocadia]

On 3/8/2024 at 10:04 AM, MicheleinPhilly said:

I despise Andy Cohen so these reunions are always like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. 

My heart died a little bit when I realized that the magnificent Alan was being replaced by Andy Cohen for the reunion.   I'm certain Alan C had better places to be, but I wish they had found someone a little less cloying.  He always just seems to me like a little kid that desperately wants to be liked by the cool kids and will do anything to feel validated as a part of the in-crowd, even when that "in-crowd" is C and D list reality stars.

Edited March 10 by leocadia
Didn't realize that AC could mean Alan OR Andy

[AntFTW]

4 hours ago, Rae Spellman said:

What I've heard a couple of cast members say is that at some point before Dan's banishment, Phaedra was on their ever changing "could be" list. So, Dan moved her from "who knows" to probably, not from "definitely a faithful" to probably. Also, it seems that some people didn't believe him!

From listening to all the interviews I've heard with the cast, it seemed like nearly everyone was a suspect at some point. The castmembers are allowed to have notebooks or journals, and a few people have said that they're list of "possibles" was an ever-revolving door of people early on in the game. I remember one interview from Sandra where she mentioned that for a split-second, she wrote down Sheree's name as a possible traitor. If that's the case, she saw something in Sheree that we didn't see in the show. Basically, she was  saying that people were picking up on any random thing to catch a traitor, even "if a person sneezed the wrong way."

I imagine everyone was in someone's "could be?" column at some point for any random reason, especially early in the show. For example, Janelle thought Larsa could have been a traitor because she proposed a toast for Marcus. They were grasping at straws, trying to create some rationale out of nothing.

Edited March 9 by AntFTW

[Taeolas]

Don't have much to say about it, but I agree Alan should have hosted this. I assume logistics to get him to the States or something prevented it in the end.

Another missed opportunity, is they should have called this Reunion show "Traitors: The Afterlife" since everyone would have been murdered (or banished) 

[meep.meep]

I knew they wouldn't bring it up on the show, but was the cast paid?

I didn't enjoy John mansplaining to MJ that it was just a game.  Even with a British accent, it's still mansplaining.  She played longer than he did.  And it had to be painful to go out the way she did.

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, Rae Spellman said:

Did he watch other seasons? Most of the traitors absolutely sabotaged each other. So even if Phaedra wasn't inclined to do that, it was a reasonable fear. 

I think the fear is reasonable. I didn't think his explanation made much sense when I first heard it. He says that he didn't see a path to winning with Phaedra in the game. My first thought upon hearing that is that there doesn't have to be only one winner. Two traitors can win the game. For Dan to win, it wasn't necessary for Phaedra to leave. I didn't quite understand why he thought that Phaedra needed to go for him to win. Also, considering that he had so much heat on him, he needed to focus on surviving for the day rather than the finish line.

Step #1 is survive. Step #2 is win. His explanation seemed to be geared toward step #2 over step #1.

[Hanahope]

I loved Peppermint’s speech.  I hope they invite her back and other diverse people.

loved John’s statement, it’s a game!  But it is harder when one is talking about a couple hundred thousand dollars.  
 

[funnygirl]

17 hours ago, Rahul said:

That’s just not true.

From an interview with one of the producers:

 

If the "oath" only goes so far as: you can't announce who else is a traitor once you've been exposed, then it's flimsy. Dan was as close to doing that as he could get. Of course no traitor is going to act under the guise of being a traitor, they are going to pretend to be a faithful like everyone else. 

But none of the rules matter, because when faithfuls can cut each other at the very end just so 2 can go home with more money, it's all bullshit. The shock and outrage everyone had at every roundtable when they realized a fellow faithful was banished: bullshit. Because CT and Trishelle knew MJ was a faithful and said, "nah, we don't want to share". So fuck it! Anything goes! 

The pulling the rug out from under someone is only exciting when a traitor does it, because they are supposed to be the "bad guys". That's their job. Cirie taking season 1 as a traitor, completely gobsmacking the other faithfuls in the end, that's the game. Faithfuls fucking over other faithfuls at the very end when all is said and done is just slimy. YMMV 

Edited March 9 by funnygirl

[Cherry Styles]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

I loved Peppermint’s speech.  I hope they invite her back and other diverse people.

loved John’s statement, it’s a game!  But it is harder when one is talking about a couple hundred thousand dollars.  
 

I didn't quite understand why Peppermint made the speech about that.  I didn't see the banishment being from people not liking Peppermint.  Trishelle freaked out because she thought Peppermint was mad. And it all spiraled after that.  But it wasn't because of anyone's sexual orientation.  

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I knew they wouldn't bring it up on the show, but was the cast paid?

For sure.

[MerBearHou]

At the reunion, I thought right away when I saw how the cast looked that it must have been filmed a bit after the final episode.  So to me, it was cringe how bitter and downright ugly MJ and Phaedra still were.  

I agreed wholeheartedly with a couple of points made:  1. It is a game and 2. those who came to Traitors from Bravo were weak sauce competitors vs those who came from physical exertion and “smarts” reality shows.  I have not been a Housewives watcher since early days of NY because it’s a bunch of infighting and incredible ugliness to one another.  That is clearly encouraged and hyped up.  So I thought Phaedra in particular was WAY out of line calling Dan a piece of sh*t and trash.  Like come ON, Miss Bible beater, Oh Lordy Jesus, I’m praying for you, Phaedra.  Such a damn fake.  And she prides herself on dishing out extremely cutting one-liners as though she thinks she’s the most clever, but wow, she cannot take it.  I hope I NEVER see her again.

And MJ was absurd in her still-livid verbiage against CT and Trishelle who I believe really earned the win.  CT with his consistent performance in the challenges and gathering gold / funds for the group and Trishelle with her instincts which were pretty spot-on almost the entire competition.  I’m so, so, so glad those two won.  CT’s joy was a delight to see.  And conversely, his shock and hurt when Trishelle first voted against him was painful to witness.  MJ was just a nothing-burger to me so I’m very glad she didn’t get 1/3 of the winnings.  

Edited March 10 by MerBearHou

[DEL901]

I laughed out loud when MJ said Alan looked upset at the result.  I thought he looked absolutely delighted by CT (and Trishelle)’s joy.  And he grinned when CT kissed him on the cheek.  

[MerBearHou]

4 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I laughed out loud when MJ said Alan looked upset at the result.  I thought he looked absolutely delighted by CT (and Trishelle)’s joy.  And he grinned when CT kissed him on the cheek.  

Agreed — Alan seemed to be having a ball at that final moment.  

[howiveaddict]

Phaedra ( who accused fellow housewife of drugging and having sex with another housewife) has some nerve calling someone a piece of shit.

MJ was as butt hurt as the two faithfuls who went with Cirie to the end last season.  Poor sport.  Typical Shah's behavior.

Larsa is so shallow that she only went on the show to be on TV.  That tracks for her.

[Rahul]

5 hours ago, funnygirl said:

If the "oath" only goes so far as: you can't announce who else is a traitor once you've been exposed, then it's flimsy. Dan was as close to doing that as he could get. Of course no traitor is going to act under the guise of being a traitor, they are going to pretend to be a faithful like everyone else.

In season 1 of th Australian version, traitors turned on each other all the time in the game and at the round table.

I do agree that the game is fundamentally flawed if faithfuls can keep banishing until there are only two players left under the guise of possible suspicion, but that’s how the rules were designed. I saw this scenario coming episodes before with two players opting to keep on voting to banish until they’d only have to split the prize pot two ways.

Edited March 10 by Rahul

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, howiveaddict said:

Larsa is so shallow that she only went on the show to be on TV.  That tracks for her.

One "benefit" of all-start seasons is that you could make that claim about 100% of the celebs and be right.  To regular people playing the game, the money likely matters quite a bit.  To the celebs, it probably doesn't matter all that much.  They're doing this to be on TV.

7 hours ago, Cherry Styles said:

I didn't quite understand why Peppermint made the speech about that.  I didn't see the banishment being from people not liking Peppermint.  Trishelle freaked out because she thought Peppermint was mad. And it all spiraled after that.  But it wasn't because of anyone's sexual orientation.  

Peppermint's point is that it's easy to target someone different, under the guise of game play. I doubt anyone consciously decided to go after her because she was a trans woman* but quite a few felt very comfortable targeting her first as "suspicious" and may not actually question why that is. 

*Although Trishelle, apparently has developed a reputation during The Challenge competitions of targeting minorities.

Edited March 10 by Irlandesa

[AntFTW]

[Sweet-n-Snarky]

7 hours ago, Cherry Styles said:

I didn't quite understand why Peppermint made the speech about that.  I didn't see the banishment being from people not liking Peppermint.  Trishelle freaked out because she thought Peppermint was mad. And it all spiraled after that.  But it wasn't because of anyone's sexual orientation.  

I think this is one of those things where when you're very aware of microaggressions and have experienced them frequently you instinctively know when they're happening. And the thing about the MICRO part of microaggressions is that it often goes unnoticed by those who aren't conscious of them.

The others can plausibly say that Peppermint's slip of the tongue is why they were more justified voting for her, but Trishelle specifically is the queen of microaggressions. In fact one of the most fascinating things about her presence here is that even viewers who weren't aware of her history (specifically viewers of color and queer ones picked up on her vibes instantly.)

I loved that Maks was someone who saw through it instantly. 

The very thought that Trishelle freaked out because she thought Peppermint was "mad" was in itself part of the issue. There's this stereotype of Black women being angry. No matter the tone used, the body language, whatever, "angry" and "aggressive" are always projected on Black women and trans women of color as well. Nothing Peppermint did justified Trishelle reaching this conclusion.

This game is a social game still too,  so it operates as a microcosm of society.  It was the first day, so just imagine how dangerous that level of paranoia is in the real world? 

Trishelle took playful banter about outfits and stuff, concluded somehow that Peppermint was angry, victimized herself and then spent the entire day rallying people against Peppermint over this sole interaction adding more and more to this interaction, exaggerating it and making it bigger than it was and distorting it. A lot of people forget that was what started all of this well before Peppermint's slip of the tongue traitor thing.

For a different and more serious context, have you ever paid attention to some of the more egregious "Karen" moves? How they usually start with some random white woman inferring, assuming, or whatever something about a POC and then escalating it, like the woman who called the police on little kids with a lemonade stand, or the woman who called the cops on a man for being in his own apartment complex, or whatever.

So look at it that way: in a real world instance, Trishelle had a conversation with Peppermint, misconstrued or felt threatened by what Peppermint said because of her own ignorance and then ran to the other contestants (police/authorities/managers) to weaponize them against Peppermint. Peppermint was forced to go on the defense and explain herself because the majority valued this random white woman's words, it continued to escalate, and then Peppermint got banished (arrested, kicked out, worse case scenario shot). 

Now, people argue "well, everyone gets paranoid, and remember they picked strange things for other people too." Yes, they did. They fixated on John's breathing and the air from Alan's sleeve shifting near Parvati. But did any of that stick? No. Did anyone spend a whole day going to everyone around and making their case for why they were undeniably Traitors because of that? No. In fact, for John at least, they were willing to test the theory before deciding if it was true. Out of those three people who were most suspicious that first day, they relentlessly went after Peppermint first and hardest. She wasn't even given the benefit of the doubt.

Out of all the "suspicious" things other people did, Trishelle ONLY fixated on Peppermint and then pushed hard for hours on that, and it was over something ridiculous from their interaction.  She was like a dog with a bone with this. I'll also note that Trishelle didn't push this hard and aggressively again until it was Phaedra, she was right, yes, but her reasoning was basicall "Dan said" and this notebook with no real evidence. Her adamantly going that hard was disproportionate to what she had to go on or even her approach with the others she suspected as traitors. She also had a similar energy when it came to Sheree. For many of the others, she stepped back and let Peter and the Pals lead the charge. 

Even without knowing about Trishelle's established history with women of color, it was definitely in the microaggressive category. 

Peppermint didn't name names, but it was evident to me that it was mostly directed at Trishelle because the witch hunt was initiated by her over something stupid. 

Edited March 10 by Sweet-n-Snarky

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, Sweet-n-Snarky said:

I loved that Maks was someone who saw through it instantly. 

I really appreciated that about Maks, too. 

Also, fantastic post!

[Cherry Styles]

12 hours ago, Sweet-n-Snarky said:

I think this is one of those things where when you're very aware of microaggressions and have experienced them frequently you instinctively know when they're happening. And the thing about the MICRO part of microaggressions is that it often goes unnoticed by those who aren't conscious of them.

The others can plausibly say that Peppermint's slip of the tongue is why they were more justified voting for her, but Trishelle specifically is the queen of microaggressions. In fact one of the most fascinating things about her presence here is that even viewers who weren't aware of her history (specifically viewers of color and queer ones picked up on her vibes instantly.)

I loved that Maks was someone who saw through it instantly. 

The very thought that Trishelle freaked out because she thought Peppermint was "mad" was in itself part of the issue. There's this stereotype of Black women being angry. No matter the tone used, the body language, whatever, "angry" and "aggressive" are always projected on Black women and trans women of color as well. Nothing Peppermint did justified Trishelle reaching this conclusion.

This game is a social game still too,  so it operates as a microcosm of society.  It was the first day, so just imagine how dangerous that level of paranoia is in the real world? 

Trishelle took playful banter about outfits and stuff, concluded somehow that Peppermint was angry, victimized herself and then spent the entire day rallying people against Peppermint over this sole interaction adding more and more to this interaction, exaggerating it and making it bigger than it was and distorting it. A lot of people forget that was what started all of this well before Peppermint's slip of the tongue traitor thing.

For a different and more serious context, have you ever paid attention to some of the more egregious "Karen" moves? How they usually start with some random white woman inferring, assuming, or whatever something about a POC and then escalating it, like the woman who called the police on little kids with a lemonade stand, or the woman who called the cops on a man for being in his own apartment complex, or whatever.

So look at it that way: in a real world instance, Trishelle had a conversation with Peppermint, misconstrued or felt threatened by what Peppermint said because of her own ignorance and then ran to the other contestants (police/authorities/managers) to weaponize them against Peppermint. Peppermint was forced to go on the defense and explain herself because the majority valued this random white woman's words, it continued to escalate, and then Peppermint got banished (arrested, kicked out, worse case scenario shot). 

Now, people argue "well, everyone gets paranoid, and remember they picked strange things for other people too." Yes, they did. They fixated on John's breathing and the air from Alan's sleeve shifting near Parvati. But did any of that stick? No. Did anyone spend a whole day going to everyone around and making their case for why they were undeniably Traitors because of that? No. In fact, for John at least, they were willing to test the theory before deciding if it was true. Out of those three people who were most suspicious that first day, they relentlessly went after Peppermint first and hardest. She wasn't even given the benefit of the doubt.

Out of all the "suspicious" things other people did, Trishelle ONLY fixated on Peppermint and then pushed hard for hours on that, and it was over something ridiculous from their interaction.  She was like a dog with a bone with this. I'll also note that Trishelle didn't push this hard and aggressively again until it was Phaedra, she was right, yes, but her reasoning was basicall "Dan said" and this notebook with no real evidence. Her adamantly going that hard was disproportionate to what she had to go on or even her approach with the others she suspected as traitors. She also had a similar energy when it came to Sheree. For many of the others, she stepped back and let Peter and the Pals lead the charge. 

Even without knowing about Trishelle's established history with women of color, it was definitely in the microaggressive category. 

Peppermint didn't name names, but it was evident to me that it was mostly directed at Trishelle because the witch hunt was initiated by her over something stupid. 

Wow. No. I don't see it that way at all. I dont see it as a race issue and that's not even what Peppermint said.  Are people of color never supposed to be eliminated from shows? 

Edited March 10 by Cherry Styles

[tvfanatic13]

Did Sheree even speak at the reunion??

[AntFTW]

Just now, tvfanatic13 said:

Did Sheree even speak at the reunion??

They left Sheree on the cutting room floor.

[Sweet-n-Snarky]

17 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I really appreciated that about Maks, too. 

Also, fantastic post!

Thanks. I appreciate you saying that. It at least makes me feel heard and understood. 

[30 Helens]

13 hours ago, Cherry Styles said:

I dont see it as a race issue and that's not even what Peppermint said.  Are people of color never supposed to be eliminated from shows? 

Of course they can be. That wasn't the point of that very excellent post, or of what Peppermint said.  I encourage you to read it again, because it's speaking to a larger point of how people react to those who are different from them. Targeting Peppermint because she's actually acting sketchy is one thing, targeting Peppermint because of some preconceived bias (conscious or not) is quite another. And it's not ok. And it's something people need to open their eyes to if it's ever going to change, whether you're talking about game shows or society at large, where it really matters.

On 3/9/2024 at 6:40 PM, MerBearHou said:

Agreed — Alan seemed to be having a ball at that final moment.  

I really don't think Alan cared who won. He was there for the fun (probably), the paycheck (definitely), and the amazing wardrobe (hope he got to keep some!).

[DEL901]

@30helens it is in Alan’s intractable that he keeps his wardrobe.  

[Cherry Styles]

4 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Of course they can be. That wasn't the point of that very excellent post, or of what Peppermint said.  I encourage you to read it again, because it's speaking to a larger point of how people react to those who are different from them. Targeting Peppermint because she's actually acting sketchy is one thing, targeting Peppermint because of some preconceived bias (conscious or not) is quite another. And it's not ok. And it's something people need to open their eyes to if it's ever going to change, whether you're talking about game shows or society at large, where it really matters.

I really don't think Alan cared who won. He was there for the fun (probably), the paycheck (definitely), and the amazing wardrobe (hope he got to keep some!).

That is assuming that Trishelle targeted Peppermint because of Peppermint being trans. I don't think that is true and that is not good to assume that. I saw no evidence of that in the show.  

I think lots of times, people make things an issue, that aren't an issue.  

It's also ok that we don't agree on this. Have a lovely day. 

Edited March 11 by Cherry Styles

[Hanahope]

No one ever said Trishelle "targeted" Peppermint because she was trans.  She was "targeted" because she was 'different' and did not act in a way that Trishelle "expected" when Trishelle made her rude comment.   Whether that was because Trishelle has not been around many women of color, transwomen, or large women, is unknown.  But Trishelle took Peppermint's response, unexpected to Trishelle, and made a huge thing about it, enough that it got a whole bunch of other people talking about it.  Peppermint was surprised by the "huge thing" when it was brought up at breakfast, addressed it and and then thought it was  done.   But people still kept bringing up without any valid reason to do so (at least as shown on the TV because they appeared to have dropped the "moved air" by Parvati and the "heavy breathing" by John, once those were addressed), and it flustered Peppermint so much that it was still an issue, she was still being targeted for her 'unexpected to Trishelle' response, that she then misspoke, which subsequently doomed her.