S02.E05: Close Enough to Touch

[peeayebee]

20 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I'm not from Boston so can't speak to authenticity but I've really loved RSL's accent. It's very soft and doesn't sound like he's trying to do a whole Boston accent thing like in a Ben Affleck movie.

I'd like to hear the Rev say, "Pahk ya ahs heah, Ada."

17 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I think it was a lame plot. It would have better if Turner's evil intentions have been succeeded but then Bertha or George or Gladys would have saved the day or, even better, the duke had said "things like this happen, it's rather hilarious, I remember when...". After all, it's how people behave in such events shows their true character. 

I was so glad Turner's evil plot failed, and that it was Watson who saved the day. However, if she had succeeded, I imagine that even though the servant (spilled soup) and the cook (gross sauce) were the obvious guilty parties, a dark cloud would have descended upon Bertha, and her status would hit rock bottom.

I had a bad feeling about Maud from the beginning. She acted suspiciously, so I do believe that Oscar is being scammed. 

3 hours ago, AntFTW said:

According to Maud Beaton, her father has businesses and/or assets under her name. Therefore, I imagine that she's either a majority shareholder or sole shareholder, or at the very least, an officer of the company that is under her name.

I'm still not sure I follow or remember everything Maud has said, but I wonder if, as you said, her father really is who she says he is. That could be part of the scam, too, and this guy that Oscar met with has nothing to do with railroads or stocks or whatever.

I have to say that I'm surprised Ada and the Rev actually got married! I was convinced that it would never happen. I still think (hope) that the Rev is on the up and up. I don't see any sign that he's not. Hopefully no fatal horse carriage accident is in his future.

Agnes was so infuriating, but I'm glad she eased up and came to the wedding.

I had no idea about Emily Roebling. So interesting. I won't read up on her now, but I will after the show finishes. And yet, what was the point of this? 

I still don't have much interest in Marian, though I did get a chuckle out of her reaction when Dashiell said something about marriage.

[Atlanta]

10 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I still don't have much interest in Marian, though I did get a chuckle out of her reaction when Dashiell said something about marriage.

His daughter gives me creepy vibes. LOL The character got lost on the way to The Shining hotel and wound up in late 1800s Manhattan. 

[CarpeFelis]

23 hours ago, yellowjacket said:

Squeeeeee!  Emily Roebling!  The patron saint of female structural engineers!!!!!  (I am one of those.)  Emily's story is GREAT and I won't spoil it, except to say that the American Society of Civil Engineers Construction Engineering award is the Roebling Award, in honor of John, Washington, and EMILY Roebling. Wheeee!

I loved that! I heard about the husband for years because he was one of the most famous alumni from RPI (I was class of ‘79, also a woman engineer) but I only just heard recently about how Emily was the real brains of the project.

I really enjoyed the sour expressions on Turner’s face as her dirty tricks at at dinner were foiled. (I swear she bears an unmistakable resemblance to Margaret Hamilton as the Wicked Witch of the West, just paint her face green.) I wonder what she’ll try next.

Spoiler

I also wonder if the story will continue to parallel the story of Mrs. Astor vs. Mrs. Vanderbilt and marry Gladys to the Duke.

Loved Agnes’ outfit at the end but I was so afraid she was just there to object!

 

[DiabLOL]

I can’t stand Dashiell and his annoying daughter. As much as I still think the actress playing Marion is the weakest link in this show, Marion the character can do way better than say a 35+ yo governess with zero prospects who would most likely jump at the chance. 

If I had my way Larry would fall madly in love with Emily Roebling. Maybe he thinks that old hens make the best soup?

I too really think Peggy needs her own show but I actually found the footage of what the restaurant owner had to endure interlaced with the relatively trite drama over Duke’s dinner kind of poignant. However I don’t trust JF as a writer enough to give him credit for that.

6 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

His daughter gives me creepy vibes. LOL The character got lost on the way to The Shining hotel and wound up in late 1800s Manhattan. 

Every time she’s on the screen I think how she seems to belong in those corny propaganda films from the 40s. The acting is so stylized and dated. She even looks black and white to colorized. She’s Uncanny Valley Shirley Temple.

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

Yes, Oscar did ask "was Mr. Gould satisfied?" He didn't really answer the question. He just seem pretty annoyed at how much Oscar knows and that he is asking all the questions, and asked not to reveal any information that Oscar was given.

LOL @ "whateverthefuckheis"

Spoiler

If the banker is not acting in the best interest of his client, and he won’t say if her benefactor is aware of his intentions, Oscar may very well be his foil! 

 

[CarpeFelis]

21 hours ago, kitkat343 said:

Someone may have mentioned this before, but Nathan Lane's accent is starting to remind me of Yosemite Sam.

I was thinking Foghorn Leghorn or Colonel Sanders!

[howiveaddict]

On 11/26/2023 at 9:28 PM, iMonrey said:

Yeah what the hell did he think was going to happen to him if he spilled hot soup all over the Duke? He'd surely be fired. And it's not like he could get a job working for the Wintertons, since Mr. Winterton was right there to witness it.

No, technically Agnes is still the matriarch. She holds the purse strings.

On this show, but would she have in real life?

23 hours ago, AntFTW said:

The scene felt off. It was like the two white guys didn't belong in the scene. It felt like they were doing too much in the part.

Rather than appearing as convincing characters, they seemed like characters portrayed by actors who are trying to be convincing characters, and I wasn't convinced.

See I found it quite realistic about things that happened in the south back then and not so long ago.  After all the Civil Rights Movement was not that long ago.  My late inlaws were from Louisiana and while not violent, some of the racist things I have heard them say and do is gringe worthy indeed.

[Tango64]

Marion and the actress are much more successful as a supporting character rather than the subject of the main plot line. 

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

It seems like Turner believes she's better than Bertha, and also feels like she's competing with Bertha... but why? It doesn't to have to be a competition. She couldn't just be happy with her box at the Academy and her rich OId Money husband.

Because Bertha has much more with her New Money husband who is hotter, richer and absolutely adores his wife.

[RedDelicious]

31 minutes ago, howiveaddict said:

See I found it quite realistic about things that happened in the south back then and not so long ago.  After all the Civil Rights Movement was not that long ago.  My late inlaws were from Louisiana and while not violent, some of the racist things I have heard them say and do is gringe worthy indeed.

To your point, I definitely agree that the scene and the situation itself were very realistic. I can’t find exactly the right words but the two white man actors could have been John C. Reilly and Will Ferrell playing caricatures of bad guys.

By comparison and for example, we are currently watching Bass Reeves on P+ and let me tell you, Dennis Quaid and the others can put a chill down your spine. I can’t watch it too late at night because it’s pretty intense and I don’t want anything to happen to Bass and his family.

[AntFTW]

47 minutes ago, howiveaddict said:

See I found it quite realistic about things that happened in the south back then and not so long ago.  After all the Civil Rights Movement was not that long ago.  My late inlaws were from Louisiana and while not violent, some of the racist things I have heard them say and do is gringe worthy indeed.

I explained in a previous post that I’m not saying the scene itself is unrealistic. 

My point is not the scene is unrealistic, rather my point is that it was executed poorly. I didn’t think the acting was convincing. I thought the acting was bad.

My own parents are black and southern, from Georgia, and my entire family is. My grandmother (who I miss very dearly 😭😭😭) grew up in the Jim Crow south and would tell me about experiences when I asked. The things she would describe to me were sickening, disheartening and gut wrenching.

I have no problem believing that Southern white men can and did indeed act in the same manner that was shown in the episode, and especially so fresh out of a civil war and a Reconstruction effort that didn’t entirely materialize.

I just thought the actors weren’t that good at playing convincing racist Southern white men.

[Roseanna]

4 hours ago, buckboard said:

It apparently was pretty common for wealthy Americans in the Gilded Age to marry off their daughters into English royalty.

An "ordinary" duke (whitout HRH) doesn't belong to royalty but but aristocracy. 

Until WW1, British royals married royals (usually German where they were plenty). Wealthy Americans could marry off their daughters to aristocrats, not royals.

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, nilyank said:

Because Bertha has much more with her New Money husband who is hotter, richer and absolutely adores his wife.

And Bertha's husband chose his wife over Turner. So logically Turner should revenge on George who spurned him.  

Edited November 28, 2023 by Roseanna
changed a word

[Roseanna]

9 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

Mostly because I can't remember Bertha ever being embarrassed about her humble beginnings. 

In the first season she told George that she didn't any more want to socialize with her old friends, not even with her sister, but wanted "new friends". Either she is embarrassed about her humble beginnungs or "a friend" means to her only somebody she can use for her own material or social benefit and vice versa. 

[Haleth]

I think Bertha's character has been softened since the first season to make her more rootable.  I think the writers saw her as someone the audience could like, so they made her more plucky and less Machiavellian (like dumping everyone she knew before hitting it rich).  Yes, she's still a social climber and rather sneaky, but she's more fun to watch and much of the audience wants to see her succeed.

The Husband Hunters by Anne de Courcy is a good read about the young American women who married British aristocrats.

[taanja]

20 hours ago, chaifan said:

I rewatched the scene with Aurora and Maud, and the scenes with Maud, Oscar and the "banker".  I am positive that this is a scam, and I'm about 95% sure Maud is in on it.  In the first scene, the banker makes Oscar promise to keep everything he knows a secret.  There wasn't anything as obvious in the second scene.  But just the tone of it screams scam.

In the scene with Aurora, there's nothing telling about it, but you could interpret the conversation as Maud fishing for information about Oscar's finances, or looking for an easy "out" for when she has to skip town. 

I'm going to go back to what I said upthread - if Maud and family are established NY, I don't think they're directly involved, also being scammed.  But if they aren't, and I honestly can't remember either way, then my guess is that they're elite grifters and go from big city to big city with this railway scam. 

And, one thing to add...  Aurora's husband needs to be on screen more.   He's rather dreamy.

Whos is the dude "rumored" to be her father? I can't remember exactly but he is a historical figure.

It's "rumored" that he has taken an interest in Maude. It's "rumored" that she has lots and lots of money.

I think it's all part of the scam.

Maude and whoever she is working with started those rumors I bet!

I don't know how it will play out but Oscar just signed away a fortune! dude got scammed!

[tennisgurl]

12 hours ago, Tango64 said:

The hay loft scene did a disservice to what it must have been like in that terrifying situation. I doubt many black people went from “Oh my God, we’re going to be lynched and burned alive!” to romantic first kiss and embrace within 60 seconds. 

Honestly it felt inappropriately funny, like in the middle of this very intense life threatening situation the two of them just cant resist the urge to make out. Its so television, it totally takes you out of the moment. I feel like nobody in that situation would be like "wow, lynch mobs really get me hot!" as they're in danger of being victims of horrific racial based violence. Honestly I think this whole plot with Peggy has been a mistake, not only does it take her away from the rest of the shows plotlines I much prefer exploring New York's wealthy black community through Peggy than the reconstruction era south. Its a part of African American history that you don't see as much of in media that I have really enjoyed exploring. Plus, I hate the idea of Peggy being involved with a married man, she's so much better than that. 

This show really needs to be careful when it starts dealing with very real issues of the time like racial violence and the violent union strikes that are coming up, there is no way this show can really handle that level of realness. I would enjoy a show that takes on the darker aspects of the Gilded Age, things like the struggles of immigrants, child labor, mass political corruption, racism and reconstruction, but I don't think its this show.

[Pop Tart]

12 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

Every time she’s on the screen I think how she seems to belong in those corny propaganda films from the 40s. The acting is so stylized and dated. She even looks black and white to colorized. She’s Uncanny Valley Shirley Temple.

She delivers her lines with a kind of flat affect, but also a bit twee, that it's coming across as really forced. The actress was so good as the young Kirsten in Station Eleven, but there the flat affect really worked as her character had been severely traumatized and was trying to survive an apocalyptic pandemic. 

I've been thinking of Larry/Marion and while I get that the show (Fellows) is for sure heading in that direction, I don't think it should happen yet. The actress playing Marion gets a lot of (fair) criticism for her bland acting, but the actor playing Larry isn't many degrees better. They're both weaker members of the cast, and because they're the "nice" characters, they also get the blandest of dialogue much of the time. 

I'd like Marion to continue to pursue her outside interests and develop more as a character, same for Larry. Pair both of them with actors who can challenge them a bit more. That's happened a bit with Agnes/Marion and Mrs. Blaine/Larry and their acting is the better for it. 

All that to say I'm in no rush for them to be a pair. 

 

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I thought Maud Beaton’s biological father is Jay Gould and I’m going on the assumption that he set up some form of trust fund for her. I thought the banker is her money manager. My guess is he’s mishandling her funds and I’m hoping Oscar discovers what he’s doing and stops it before the banker loses all her money from Gould. 

I wonder if this plot feels like a scam simply because it is being under-written and vague. The sole purpose may well be, as you suggest, to have Oscar "save" Maud and thereby win her trust, and hand in marriage. Oscar himself is a poor target for a grift. He doesn't have much money on his own, he's a "humble" banker. Whatever he might lose on the investment he can simply recoup from his salary. It would only be a minor setback, it's not as if he's signing away a trust fund.

11 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I have no problem believing that Southern white men can and did indeed act in the same manner that was shown in the episode, and especially so fresh out of a civil war and a Reconstruction effort that didn’t entirely materialize.

I just thought the actors weren’t that good at playing convincing racist Southern white men.

The situation itself wasn't unrealistic. The dialogue was. I shouldn't need to spell it out. The ugly slurs that would have been flung about are obvious. It was a ridiculously sanitized scenario. Someone upthread aptly compared it to an episode of Little House on the Prairie. 

The show doesn't want to go there. OK then. Don't do it at all. This was an entirely unnecessary subplot, completely detached from the rest of the show. The show needs to stay in its own lane. Stick to the glitz and glamour of the gilded age in NYC, and however that affects Peggy's life should be contained therein.

[RedDelicious]

11 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I just thought the actors weren’t that good at playing convincing racist Southern white men.

I'm not trying to make light of the scene but honestly I was waiting for the sidekick to yell SHAKE AND BAKE, it was that bad.

[Atlanta]

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

An "ordinary" duke (whitout HRH) doesn't belong to royalty but but aristocracy. 

Until WW1, British royals married royals (usually German where they were plenty). Wealthy Americans could marry off their daughters to aristocrats, not royals.

Thank you for saying this. It drives me nuts that people think an aristocrat is royal. Princess Diana was the daughter of an earl so aristos and royalty have intermarried. They move in a lot of the same circles. Modern royals are allowed to marry who they want like King Filipe of Spain and Letizia, Prince Edward and Sophie (my favorite royals), Willem Alexander and Maxama of the Netherlands, etc. 

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Honestly it felt inappropriately funny, like in the middle of this very intense life threatening situation the two of them just cant resist the urge to make out. Its so television, it totally takes you out of the moment. I feel like nobody in that situation would be like "wow, lynch mobs really get me hot!" as they're in danger of being victims of horrific racial based violence.

Amen. The purpose of the lynch mob was to get Peggy and Fortune alone together so they could kiss. It trivializes the racial violence, using it as a plot device. We've seen this type of thing before, where the writer feels the need to create traumatic situations so characters can express their love for or attraction to each other. Ugh.

 

32 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I wonder if this plot feels like a scam simply because it is being under-written and vague. The sole purpose may well be, as you suggest, to have Oscar "save" Maud and thereby win her trust, and hand in marriage. Oscar himself is a poor target for a grift. He doesn't have much money on his own, he's a "humble" banker. Whatever he might lose on the investment he can simply recoup from his salary. It would only be a minor setback, it's not as if he's signing away a trust fund.

Re bolded part: That's possible. I've seen that in other parts of the show. However, since I've been thinking Maud was acting suspiciously (mainly a facial expression in the previous ep, IIRC), I think this is a scam. Maybe her expression I  noticed meant something else, like SHE was suspicious of Oscar, but I think it is more interesting that Oscar, who has been on the hunt for a wife with money, would be taken advantage of.

[Tango64]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

The show doesn't want to go there. OK then. Don't do it at all. This was an entirely unnecessary subplot, completely detached from the rest of the show. The show needs to stay in its own lane. Stick to the glitz and glamour of the gilded age in NYC, and however that affects Peggy's life should be contained therein.

Amen. I suspect the producers feel like they need to show some of the gritty, bad parts of life in that era lest they be accused of just glorifying super rich white people. So they create a separate plot line that feels like a different show entirely, and just tiptoe around the ugly parts. 

Not necessary. 

[Roseanna]

13 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

Amen. I suspect the producers feel like they need to show some of the gritty, bad parts of life in that era lest they be accused of just glorifying super rich white people. So they create a separate plot line that feels like a different show entirely, and just tiptoe around the ugly parts. 

Not necessary. 

They could have shown how Georges' workers live. Or maybe they still will, or at least tell more about strikers? But I am afraid that it will be very lame.  

[chaifan]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Oscar himself is a poor target for a grift. He doesn't have much money on his own, he's a "humble" banker.

I think that is what makes him a better target.  He has money, but not over the top George Russell money.  So he doesn't have a bevy of advisors to look over what he's doing.  And George would never agree to keep an investment completely secret - he'd call up Gould himself before signing the check.  Oscar isn't at that level.  Oscar is being flattered into believing he's part of an elite group - that only works with someone who isn't part of that group but wants to be. 

Back in the scene where Oscar mentions Gould, and the banker guy says something along the lines of "you've done your homework" (paraphrasing here), I also think that was just pure flattery, appealing to Oscar's ego.  Oh, you're such a smart, smart man, Maude is so lucky to have you looking out after her.

As for the money, it seems like a con where they're not bilking one person for $1 million, which would cause someone to do due diligence.  But instead going after 10 people for $100,000. 

Again, my knowledge of such is based only on watching too many episodes of Leverage.  I could easily see this same plot done in a flashback to 1890's style episode, with Sophie as Maude and Ford as the banker.  Maybe Fellowes is a fan... 

I have to admit, I'll be a little sad if I'm wrong about all of this.  If in the end, Oscar just ends up as a run of the mill financial advisor to Maude, and there's nothing more to it, that's just going to be boring after all this speculation.  The con is a much more fun plot line. 

Totally different subject...  in 1890, would it be appropriate for Maude to be out with a single man like this?  Wouldn't a young woman normally have a chaperone of some sort?

 

[RedDelicious]

3 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Totally different subject...  in 1890, would it be appropriate for Maude to be out with a single man like this?  Wouldn't a young woman normally have a chaperone of some sort?

I was wondering that exact same thing! I even wondered about Marian crossing the street to talk to Larry.

[chaifan]

19 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

They could have shown how Georges' workers live. Or maybe they still will, or at least tell more about strikers? But I am afraid that it will be very lame. 

I would love for the show to go there.  If this were a good old fashioned network TV show with 18-22 episodes per season, I think they could.  But with 8 episodes (I think that's what GA has, right?) I don't think there's the time.

In the thread for the episode where George had the union guy over, I said I'd like it if George saw some room for compromise, like realizing the worker safety issue is a valid point, and actually do something about it.  I'd love to see him be a bit "progressive" in that way, and it would round out the character a bit. This episode, George did seem in favor of the 8 hours of work/rest/life concept.  Worker safety has been mentioned a few times since, so maybe he will do something in that regard.

Since George came from humble beginnings, I could see him being moved by the destitution a workers' family would face after the worker was injured or killed on the job.  Maybe that's where they'll go with this.  I think we'll see the union guy again.

3 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

I was wondering that exact same thing! I even wondered about Marian crossing the street to talk to Larry.

I wondered about Larry & Marion being out together, too.  But then I figured that maybe it's ok since they aren't courting.  Probably not era appropriate, but good enough for the show.

On a separate, but related note, I did love the eye roll Marion gave after Dashiel expressed his relief about Agnes not being against all marriages.  Yeah, Dashiel, that was subtle.  I do like that they're not having Marion just fall for whoever flatters her.  I'm looking forward to the scene where she tells Agnes no, I'm not marrying Dashiel. 

[AntFTW]

21 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Back in the scene where Oscar mentions Gould, and the banker guy says something along the lines of "you've done your homework" (paraphrasing here), I also think that was just pure flattery, appealing to Oscar's ego.

I didn't take anything in that conversation to be flattery. Nothing the guy (wheteverthefuckheis) sounded like he was trying to flatter Oscar. Nothing he said was a compliment to Oscar, but as a surprise that Oscar knows so much about the deal.

[Haleth]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Oscar himself is a poor target for a grift. He doesn't have much money on his own, he's a "humble" banker. Whatever he might lose on the investment he can simply recoup from his salary. It would only be a minor setback, it's not as if he's signing away a trust fund.

Geez, I hope they don’t go the route where Oscar decides to invest and loses the bank’s money in a scheme. 

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

Totally different subject...  in 1890, would it be appropriate for Maude to be out with a single man like this?  Wouldn't a young woman normally have a chaperone of some sort?

They’re still in the late 1860s!

[RachelKM]

Just now, Haleth said:

They’re still in the late 1860s!

1880's.  This season is 1883.  Last season was 1882.

Walking with a man in a park (or otherwise out in the open) was one of the few acceptable ways to be with someone of the opposite sex. 

Marian and Larry are known to be neighbors. So it might not be seen as courting.  But they may raise a few questions by being out together.  I don't think it would be a scandal, though. 

[Salacious Kitty]

7 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Geez, I hope they don’t go the route where Oscar decides to invest and loses the bank’s money in a scheme. 

They’re still in the late 1860s!

Does Oscar have a high enough position at the bank to be investing its money? I picture him as some mid-level scrub. 

As for the year, they're solidly in 1883, the year of the mega bustle. 😀

Edited November 28, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[Haleth]

Oops, sorry about misstating the date. We have an architectural print of the Brooklyn Bridge on a wall and it is dated 1867, but the bridge opened in 1883. My mistake. 

[BeatrixK]

BTW -- WHAT HAS BECOME OF PUMPKIN!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

Do we know if new Mr. Ada is even a Dog Person?!?!?!?!?

 

 

[Sarah 103]

 

4 hours ago, Tango64 said:

Amen. I suspect the producers feel like they need to show some of the gritty, bad parts of life in that era lest they be accused of just glorifying super rich white people. So they create a separate plot line that feels like a different show entirely, and just tiptoe around the ugly parts. 

To me the frustrating thing is that if they wanted to show racism during this era, they could have done that with Peggy and her family in New York. It would be fantastic and a great opportunity for the audience to see that racism was not confined to the south and that it existed in the North, but in more subtle ways. They did a bit of it in season 1, but I want to see more of it. I also want them to explore the differences in the Black community in New York. We've seen glimpses of the elite through Peggy's family, but what about those who are less affluent? Does the Black elite ever interact with them, and under what circumstances, and what does that interaction look like? 

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

This episode, George did seem in favor of the 8 hours of work/rest/life concept.  Worker safety has been mentioned a few times since, so maybe he will do something in that regard.

What struck me about George's line in that conversation is that he supported the idea of the workers being able to spend more time with their family. 

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

Walking with a man in a park (or otherwise out in the open) was one of the few acceptable ways to be with someone of the opposite sex. 

Marian and Larry are known to be neighbors. So it might not be seen as courting.  But they may raise a few questions by being out together.  I don't think it would be a scandal, though. 

I think as long they are seen in a public place (like a park) with a social equal it would be acceptable. There might be gossip from people who saw them in the park, but unless they held hands or kissed, it would probably not damage their reputations. 

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Does Oscar have a high enough position at the bank to be investing its money? I picture him as some mid-level scrub. 

I agree. I thought Oscar was investing his own money.

[Salacious Kitty]

6 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

BTW -- WHAT HAS BECOME OF PUMPKIN!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

Do we know if new Mr. Ada is even a Dog Person?!?!?!?!?

 

 

He had Pumpkin on his lap during his first visit to 61st St. 👍

[ofmd]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I wonder if this plot feels like a scam simply because it is being under-written and vague. The sole purpose may well be, as you suggest, to have Oscar "save" Maud and thereby win her trust, and hand in marriage. Oscar himself is a poor target for a grift. He doesn't have much money on his own, he's a "humble" banker. Whatever he might lose on the investment he can simply recoup from his salary. It would only be a minor setback, it's not as if he's signing away a trust fund.

 

I always thought he does have a bit of money of his own, just not as much as he would like. Isn't it also possible that he, as the banker in the family, is entrusted with the family money - the investments and such? Or that he could convince Agnes to invest in whatevertheschemeis?

5 hours ago, Roseanna said:

They could have shown how Georges' workers live. Or maybe they still will, or at least tell more about strikers? But I am afraid that it will be very lame.  

If she show cared for poor people other than as obstacles to Geoge's success and Bertha's social ascent, some of them would be an integral part of it. They would share a poor person's life and perspectives, their hopes and joys and their poor health and their children having to work.

Which is a long-winded way to say they are about as qualified (or willing) to depict poverty and strive as they are to show rampant racism. So I much prefer for them to focus on the soapy, glitzy aspects of the era instead.

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by ofmd

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, ofmd said:

I always thought he does have a bit of money of his own, just not as much as he would like.

He does. The producers of the show on the podcast have said that Oscar is wealthy. Given what we've seen on the show, he's not as wealthy as he would like to be, which is why he's looking for a rich bride.

[ofmd]

3 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

He does. The producers of the show on the podcast have said that Oscar is wealthy. Given what we've seen on the show, he's not as wealthy as he would like to be, which is why he's looking for a rich bride.

I bet he could live quite comfortably (and apprropriately for his class) with what he has. I thought in the previous episode, when he told Marian he wanted to be a duke or a king, it echoed his aspirations in a funny way.

[AntFTW]

12 hours ago, ofmd said:

I bet he could live quite comfortably (and apprropriately for his class) with what he has.

He appears to be living comfortably now. He seems to be able to afford traveling to Newport during the summers and doing all the activities of others in his social class.

12 hours ago, ofmd said:

I always thought he does have a bit of money of his own, just not as much as he would like.

12 hours ago, AntFTW said:

He does. The producers of the show on the podcast have said that Oscar is wealthy. Given what we've seen on the show, he's not as wealthy as he would like to be, which is why he's looking for a rich bride.

And I would add that Oscar's want for more is the primary reason why he chooses to invest in the railroad acquisition.

He sees George Russell and Maud Beaton's rumored father, Jay Gould, being absurdly wealthy from railroad businesses and he wants that.

Edited November 29, 2023 by AntFTW

[kay1864]

Best quotes of the series!

-This is like extracting teeth.

-Will Miss Marian also be having a tray in her room, ma’am?

-I’m not the selfish one here.

-That’s a relief. (Dashiell)

(and Bannister was in top form, as usual)

 

Who else wants Church to tell Bertha about the averted crisis? (and that it was Watson who saved the day)

Edited November 29, 2023 by kay1864

[Atlanta]

Does Oscar live with Agnes and Marian or does he have his own place? I don't think it would be considered unusual for a fully grown son to have his own place. He's at least in his 30s. I could see Larry not having his own yet since he's a recent Harvard grad.

[kay1864]

On 11/27/2023 at 12:19 AM, kitkat343 said:

Every time I hear Nathan Lane or Robert Sean Leonard speak it takes me totally out of the show.  Someone may have mentioned this before, but Nathan Lane's accent is starting to remind me of Yosemite Sam.

I grew up in Chicago, but I’ve lived in the South for 50 years. I actually know people who talk very much like him—so Nathan Lane is doing a pretty good job.

[kay1864]

On 11/27/2023 at 7:51 AM, ofmd said:

Usually, I would ask why the Rev had to leave New York - wouldn't that be like almost a demotion? - but I don't think they'll go that route.

I too wondered about that. Hopefully nothing salacious.

[Sarah 103]

26 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

Who else wants Church to tell Bertha about the averted crisis? (and that it was Watson who saved the day)

I want Church to tell Bertha, who will then tell George and ask if there is something he can do. George somehow save the day because he will do anything for his wife and also appreciates Watson. 

25 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Does Oscar live with Agnes and Marian or does he have his own place? I don't think it would be considered unusual for a fully grown son to have his own place. He's at least in his 30s. I could see Larry not having his own yet since he's a recent Harvard grad.

My understanding is that young men of that class in that era usually moved out of their parents' home and got their own apartment after graduating college. I am not sure about where Oscar and Larry are living. 

[sistermagpie]

33 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Does Oscar live with Agnes and Marian or does he have his own place? I don't think it would be considered unusual for a fully grown son to have his own place. He's at least in his 30s. I could see Larry not having his own yet since he's a recent Harvard grad.

I think he has his own place. He comes to their house a lot, but he doesn't seem to live there. If he wants to stay over I'm sure there's a room for him, but he probably brought his boyfriend to his own apartment.

6 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

I too wondered about that. Hopefully nothing salacious.

I doubt it. Boston to New York doesn't seem like a demotion to me, especially when he's now the rector of people like Agnes. Seems more like they thought he was a safe bet who wouldn't offend anyone--and he was telling Ada how he didn't want to accept the job, so it didn't seem like he's supposed to have been expelled in disgrace.

[Shermie]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:26 PM, AntFTW said:

That's why I Turner doesn't make sense to me. I can't rationalize the shit she does.

Because Bertha’s husband chose Bertha over her. 

On 11/27/2023 at 8:12 PM, DiabLOL said:

George is an actual villain and Bertha supports that. Of course I understand why so many viewers like watching their personal stories though but I find their burning love a bit improbable given how long they’ve been together. 

You don’t think long married couples can still be hot for each other? Pity for you.

On 11/27/2023 at 12:34 PM, iMonrey said:

Because the Bishop reassigned him. Which contradicts his promise to Agnes that he would never leave New York and take Ada away, since he'd already been forcibly reassigned so there's nothing to prevent it from happening again.

Although maybe he won’t be reassigned as quickly now that he has a wife. Easier to accept new jobs in different cities when you’re a bachelor with no ties.

On 11/27/2023 at 10:11 PM, CarpeFelis said:

On 11/27/2023 at 12:19 AM, kitkat343 said:

Someone may have mentioned this before, but Nathan Lane's accent is starting to remind me of Yosemite Sam.

I was thinking Foghorn Leghorn or Colonel Sanders

It’s been mentioned several times that the character was a real person who actually overdid his southern accent, so Nathan Lane is just doing an accurate impersonation.

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I want Church to tell Bertha, who will then tell George and ask if there is something he can do. George somehow save the day because he will do anything for his wife and also appreciates Watson. 

George did notice that Watson took the soup from what’s-his-name and served it himself; George kind of pulled a brief face of perplexion. So the whole story might come to their attention.

[Salacious Kitty]

It was Church (head butler) who served the Duke. Watson was the one who brought it to Church's attention. 

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

George did notice that Watson took the soup from what’s-his-name and served it himself; George kind of pulled a brief face of perplexion. So the whole story might come to their attention.

Yes, there were several flashes of George's face during that scene. He definitely knows something was up, but trusted Church to handle it. 

I was hoping in that final scene between George and Bertha that George would ask her what was up, just to acknowledge that they noticed something.  But no.  But I have to believe this will be addressed in the next episode, and yes, it will result in Watson being rewarded in some way that solves his predicament.  (Otherwise, what was the point of his conversation with George at the beginning of the episode?)

Yes, Oscar has his own apartment.  It's been shown several times, but I do get it confused with the apartment of his boyfriend.  I think Larry still lives at home, but not 100% sure about that.  He's significantly younger than Oscar.

 

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, ofmd said:

I always thought he does have a bit of money of his own, just not as much as he would like. Isn't it also possible that he, as the banker in the family, is entrusted with the family money - the investments and such? Or that he could convince Agnes to invest in whatevertheschemeis?

 

6 hours ago, AntFTW said:

He does. The producers of the show on the podcast have said that Oscar is wealthy. Given what we've seen on the show, he's not as wealthy as he would like to be, which is why he's looking for a rich bride.

As a banker he should know not to put all his money on one project. Not to speak of loaning money for a risky investment. But greed is a great motivation.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Church, ungloved, takes the soup bowl from footman Peter Barnes, gloved, and serves the Duke.

There’s your scandal. 

I was a cater waiter in Manhattan for a pretentious catering company. We had to wear white gloves. By the end of service, it looked like our gloves had been in a paintball competition.

I was happy that Ada invited Bannister and other staff to her wedding. Would they have considered that shocking at the time?

When I look up the cast on imdb, everyone looks 15-20 years older in this period’s makeup, hair, styling and wardrobe.