S06.E01: Persona Non Grata

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

As Princess Diana and the boys set off for St Tropez for a holiday courtesy of Mohamed Al Fayed, Prince Charles advances his latest plan to legitimise his relationship with Camilla in the public eye: a glittering fiftieth birthday party at Highgrove that he hopes the Queen will attend. Fayed, too, is in strategising mode. Unbeknownst to Diana, he hopes to engineer a romance between the Princess and his son, Dodi. But with a small complication: Dodi himself is already engaged to someone else.

Season six premiere dropping Thursday, November 16, 2023.

[Helena Dax]

Glad this show is back!

It isn't the first time that they show the Queen paying more attention to her dogs than to her son. I don't know if that was true, and tbh,I don't know what to think. I mean, was she really that cold towards him? We never hear the same complaints coming from Anne, Andrew or Edward. 

I wonder if the show is really aware of Mou Mou's hypocrisy calling that woman a gold-digger while he's desperately trying to hook up his son with the mother of the future king. As for Diana, I still find hard to believe her portrayal as a poor lonely girl without friends. 

I laughed when Diana and the kids were on the plane and the actor who plays Harry started to do with his mouth the same things that real Harry does. 

It was an okay episode, but tbh, I'm more interested in the Royal Family than in Diana/Dodi relationship. Give me the royal gossip!

[Spartan Girl]

Oh Diana. You finally got away from a guy with parent-pleasing issues. You do NOT need another.

It’s depressing that Mou-Mou is turning out to be just another person using her. Not surprising but depressing.

Charles still sucks.

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

It’s depressing that Mou-Mou is turning out to be just another person using her. Not surprising but depressing.

It was good that he had an entirely part in the last season: despite his achievements and wealth he has so long been looked down in Britain on because his origins and religion. 

I don't think he understood that instead of getting recohnition to himself, he was destroying Diana's reputation. Prejudices were too strong.

[txhorns79]

5 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

It isn't the first time that they show the Queen paying more attention to her dogs than to her son. I don't know if that was true, and tbh,I don't know what to think. I mean, was she really that cold towards him? We never hear the same complaints coming from Anne, Andrew or Edward. 

In the fourth season, they established that Andrew was Elizabeth's favorite, and Anne is Phillip's favorite.  I don't know that they really got into it with Edward.  I don't remember exactly when, but I do think within the show itself that Elizabeth has acknowledged struggling with parenting her kids.  

 

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

It’s depressing that Mou-Mou is turning out to be just another person using her. Not surprising but depressing.

I felt very bad for Diana.  Here she thinks she has a friend, and instead he just sees her as the ultimate trophy for his son.        

[Snazzy Daisy]

That opening scene…it’s still raw. No need for visuals in the tunnel, the crash sound itself is haunting enough.

One last summer with mum. 😢

Diana needs to escape and Mou Mou is desperate to be included. What a contrast. Unexpectedly, Diana and Dodi end up bonding over daddy issues - neglectful vs controlling.

Like Diana to summer in Balmoral Castle, Kelly Fisher is also a persona non grata to Al-Fayed family.

PP thinks Camilla is not wicked, just inappropriate. Does PP not realize how manipulative she can be? That restaurant scene with young Diana is unforgettable. 🙄

This might be insignificant, but what’s with the lingering shot of a mouse?

Quote

“I always say it’s hard to be half in anything. You’re either in or out.”

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[Sailorgirl26]

2 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

That opening scene…it’s still raw. No need for visuals in the tunnel, the crash sound itself is haunting enough.

 

 

And the camera flashes reflecting off the tunnel wall. There are still no words to describe the depths of that despicable behavior.  

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

And the camera flashes reflecting off the tunnel wall. There are still no words to describe the depths of that despicable behavior.  

No words at all. The guy walking his dog had the decency to call 911 right away while those bastards were taking photos of her bleeding body. 

As usual, Elizabeth shows more affection to the doggies than Charles**. I’d be more touched by her effort with the phone call at the end if Charles hadn’t been whining to his staff about Camilla’s party not getting more attention than Diana. Dude, you’re an adult and you’re going to be king no matter what. Maybe stop obsessing about if your parents and subjects accept Camilla and spend more time being happy with Camilla the way you keep saying you are. SMH

5 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Like Diana to summer in Balmoral Castle, Kelly Fisher is also a persona non grata to Al-Fayed family.

Yeah, but all his hemming and hawing that his dad was forcing him with Diana, Dodi wasn’t fighting it that hard to stand up for Kelly (or himself for that matter). I think part of him was already one foot out the door, and not just because he wanted Daddy’s approval.

Diana throwing ice cubes at Dodi and William was cute.

**The corgi that Elizabeth said wasn’t drinking anything was okay, right? Right?!

Edited November 17, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[iMonrey]

10 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I laughed when Diana and the kids were on the plane and the actor who plays Harry started to do with his mouth the same things that real Harry does. 

Not familiar. What thing with his mouth?

4 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

That opening scene…it’s still raw. No need for visuals in the tunnel, the crash sound itself is haunting enough.

Bone chilling. I realized where it was going as soon as the limo zoomed by but had to rewind because the crash sound didn't register at first. I can't imagine what it would be like to have your mother's death  dramatized like that.

When Charles told his mother that waiting for her in the hallway reminded him of his and Anne's daily "visitations" it made me think of the Dowager Countess on Downton Abbey, when reminded she only saw her child once a day during formal viewings. "Yes, but it was every day."

[ItCouldBeWorse]

5 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

This might be insignificant, but what’s with the lingering shot of a mouse?

Charles decided not to say anything; those who live there deserve to have a rodent infestation.

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Diana throwing ice cubes at Dodi and William was cute.

To me, it seemed like she needed attention.  William was having fun discussing the next James Bond movie with Dodi.  Leave them alone!

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by ItCouldBeWorse

[dubbel zout]

Dodi was so weak, just as Charles was. It's depressing that Diana couldn't find someone who didn't see her as a trophy or window dressing. And she did need someone wealthy enough to provide her with the necessary security, so the doctor from last season would have never worked on that score alone.

That whole "in or out" speech had me somewhat puzzled. Diana knew she wouldn't be representing the BRF anymore, but why couldn't she do work on behalf of the British government? I'm also kind of surprised she didn't align herself with UNICEF or a similar NGO, but maybe time ran out for that. I'm sure she was inundated with requests for help, and she had to decide what was most worthwhile for her without ruffling too many official feathers. Her work on land mines was considered controversial even as it was extremely effective.

[BlackberryJam]

I thought the scene with Charles, Elizabeth and the dogs was masterful. Elizabeth never had any intention of attending the party and she clearly thought Charles should already know that. She didn’t want to have the awkward conversation with him and he love for Camilla made him blind to that. He knows she doesn’t approve of the relationship. 

Elizabeth sidesteps every attempt by Charles to guilt or manipulate her into doing something she knows will be a PR disaster and which goes against her personal beliefs. Focusing on the dogs gives her a means to avoid what could be a messy and emotional scene.

Then, when Charles leaves, we see her staring at him, only to glance back at her dog when he looks back, because she knows if he catches her he will come back and beg.

I don’t think this scene is about Elizabeth as a mother and Charles as a son, but rather about Elizabeth as a Queen and Charles as a fool in love. 

 

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

That whole "in or out" speech had me somewhat puzzled. Diana knew she wouldn't be representing the BRF anymore, but why couldn't she do work on behalf of the British government? I'm also kind of surprised she didn't align herself with UNICEF or a similar NGO, but maybe time ran out for that. I'm sure she was inundated with requests for help, and she had to decide what was most worthwhile for her without ruffling too many official feathers. Her work on land mines was considered controversial even as it was extremely effective.

Diana couldn't work for the British government for the same reason the duke of Windsor couldn't. 

I hade to laugh aloud when PM Blair said that the probition of land mines was going to be universal.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Roseanna
took out a sentence - more about it in history thread

[MJ Frog]

8 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

To me, it seemed like she needed attention.

Indeed, and she especially seems to need the attention of men (this need likely stemming from the coldness of her father). And I have to say, she knows how to draw them in and is VERY good at it. So much of how she speaks and the way she uses her body appears to go towards this end. I find myself completely mesmerized. I am so impressed with Elizabeth Debicki's performance, not just as a portrayal of Diana, but all the subtleties she employs to convey that need for male attention, and the irresistable combination of shyness, vulnerability, and mischief she uses to get it.

Edited November 17, 2023 by MJ Frog
Picky pickiness.

[peridot]

I'm glad the opening scene wasn't graphic.  Now that they showed the timeline, I didn't realize that Diana and Dodi weren't dating that long.  He was a weak fool, and I hated that his fiance didn't kick him to the curb when he sent her to the smaller boat.  Mou Mou is a piece of shit.

I felt bad for Diana when Charles read that letter excerpt at the birthday party - "I have loved none but you".  No one forced Charles to marry Diana, I hate his constant victim attitude.  I didn't like he made that remark to the footman, either.

I scoffed when Charles shouted at his staff because Camilla was being overshadowed by Diana in the papers.  People don't really care about her because she isn't as vivacious as Diana, I'm not sure what he was thinking his staff could do.

I couldn't entertain a guy who treated his fiance like that and was sending me gifts at the same time, but I guess Diana constantly needed to be loved.

[Straycat80]

Happy this show is back and the opening was chilling. I’m old enough to remember when this happened and have seen multiple documentaries about Diana. Her relationship with Dodi was huge in the summer of 1997. 
If Mou Mou was really throwing them together it was understandable. He was a rich man who wanted power and acceptance especially in England. And maybe he thought he would finally be granted UK citizenship. He didn’t care who he used. 

[sugarbaker design]

20 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

This might be insignificant, but what’s with the lingering shot of a mouse?

If it's shown it's not insignificant.  It's also not the first time a mouse was spotted in the palace. In series 4 episode 3 a mouse scurried by a seated Queen Mother in the palace.  I took as a symbol of decay of the palace and the monarchy.

6 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

I am so impressed with Elizabeth Debicki's performance, not just as a portrayal of Diana, but all the subtleties she employs to convey that need for male attention, and the irresistable combination of shyness, vulnerability, and mischief she uses to get it.

ED really nails it, it's uncanny.

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by sugarbaker design

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Diana couldn't work for the British government for the same reason the duke of Windsor couldn't. 

I think she probably could have in the right role, but it's moot now.

[Spartan Girl]

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Diana couldn't work for the British government for the same reason the duke of Windsor couldn't. 

Diana wasn’t a Nazi sympathizer and she didn’t exactly abdicate either.

 

12 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think she probably could have in the right role, but it's moot now.

I agree. 

One more thing: I did love the scenes with Diana being affectionate with the boys. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Clanstarling]

15 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Dodi was so weak, just as Charles was. It's depressing that Diana couldn't find someone who didn't see her as a trophy or window dressing. And she did need someone wealthy enough to provide her with the necessary security, so the doctor from last season would have never worked on that score alone.

That whole "in or out" speech had me somewhat puzzled. Diana knew she wouldn't be representing the BRF anymore, but why couldn't she do work on behalf of the British government? I'm also kind of surprised she didn't align herself with UNICEF or a similar NGO, but maybe time ran out for that. I'm sure she was inundated with requests for help, and she had to decide what was most worthwhile for her without ruffling too many official feathers. Her work on land mines was considered controversial even as it was extremely effective.

 

21 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think she probably could have in the right role, but it's moot now.

I think the publicity surrounding her doing any work for the British government would continue to connect her to the Royal Family, as well as overshadow any work the Royals did. They would never, ever, allow that. She's out and they want absolutely no public connection with her (other than as the incubator to the heirs). (word used from their perspective not mine)

Edited November 17, 2023 by Clanstarling

[tennisgurl]

That opener was bone chilling, we all knew it was coming but seeing that speeding limo and hearing that horrible crash still hit me in the gut. I was only seven when Diana died and it was the really the first time I remember really feeling upset by the death of a famous person. So many kids were upset at school that our teacher had to have a talk with us about dealing with our feelings, its a very vivid memory. 

I liked Elizabeth Debicki last season but I think she leaned a little too much into the "saddest girl in the world" vibe at times, but I think she was great here. You could really see that charisma and glamour she had, that confidence mixed with a desperate need for attention, you could see her warmth with her boys as well as cringe at her unfortunate tendencies to make things about her even with her kids, it was a really great performance. 

If I was Camilla I would have been pissed about that letter Charles read at her birthday, it was clearly more about him still being pissy towards Diana and wanting to make more swipes at her than actually complimenting Camilla, but I guess she's used to that. Diana might have felt like there were always three people in their marriage but now Camilla is probably feeling the same way. He sounded so petty whining about press coverage and wanting to "win the war" against Diana, just what does he expect his staff to do? 

Its too bad that Diana needed so badly to be loved but she couldn't find a man who can make her a priority, that's two men now who are obsessed with what their parents think of them. Mou Mou is a real asshole, Diana thinks he's her friend when really he's just someone else who wants to use her for her glamour. Pretty hypocritical to call his sons finance a gold digger when he's trying to push his son at Diana for her status. Dodi is utterly spineless and I hate how he treated his fiancé, but I did feel bad for him when Mou Mou said that he would finally make him proud if he married Diana. Nothing else about him makes him worthy of your attention? Thanks dad. 

[lovinbob]

Not only does Diana need tons of attention, I also think she has poor boundaries with her sons, esp. William. Her affection with them actually makes me somewhat uncomfortable, and she definitely shouldn't be badmouthing Camilla/charles to them. She doesn't have to be Camilla's cheerleader, but that whole "you know who" thing was ridiculous.

How long did Dodi and Diana know each other. Was it that week in Saint Tropez and then their fatal trip to Paris? I didn't think their relationship was that brief. 

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Diana wasn’t a Nazi sympathizer and she didn’t exactly abdicate either.

Divorce is a kind of abdicaton. More than that, she overshadows Charles just  as the BRF feared that duke of Windsor would do to George V if he was allowed to live in Britain. 

[SnapHappy]

Diana really needed a man like Hasnat Khan, her 5th season boyfriend.  He didn't want anything from her and wasn't hungry for power, wealth or status. 

I feel for Dodi, that he's trying to be his own man.  But his father is like Elizabeth.  Their way or the highway, nobody else matters.  And Dodi just doesn't have enough backbone.  

Will was definitely side-eying Di when they were leaving the boat.  He knew what was going on, but we didn't see then how. 

And a vintage Cartier Panthere' watch?  VERY nice little souvenir from their vacay 

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

Diana really needed a man like Hasnat Khan, her 5th season boyfriend.  He didn't want anything from her and wasn't hungry for power, wealth or status. 

Yes, but the problem was that like any man of sense, Khan realized in time that he didn't want to become "Mr Diana" but keep his profession and privacy.

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Yes, but the problem was that like any man of sense, Khan realized in time that he didn't want to become "Mr Diana" but keep his profession and privacy.

In that sense, Diana’s love life after Charles would be permanently screwed. Either there would be guys that wanted to use her for her fame, or ones that would be driven away by her fame. I’d like to think there was someone out there that would love her unconditionally enough to endure all that and be secure enough to let her shine…but we’ll never know.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Roseanna]

20 hours ago, peridot said:

I felt bad for Diana when Charles read that letter excerpt at the birthday party - "I have loved none but you".  

Captain Wenthworth in Austen's novel Persuasion was a single man and he wrote his letter only to his former bethrothed, Anne. I doubt that no Englishman with Charles's age and backround would have even among friends declared his passionate love and, in effect, years' adultery. Let's remember that Camilla's family was present!  

[ancslove]

I thought this was a good opening.  I really liked the Charles/Elizabeth scenes.  She was doing everything she could to let them all maintain the polite, kind fiction that she's unable to attend Camilla's birthday due to prior commitment, but Charles just would not take the hint!  He knows why she's never going to agree to attend that party!  I don't really blame him for making her come out and say it directly, but I also don't blame her for trying to avoid that conversation.  I also think that (at least in the show's universe), Elizabeth may love her son as her son, but finds herself not really liking him as a person or as the heir to the throne.  And that may well be why real Charles did famously feel very distanced from his mother, when his sister Anne never did.  (If so, I think real Charles settling with Camilla did really help him mature.)

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, ancslove said:

She was doing everything she could to let them all maintain the polite, kind fiction that she's unable to attend Camilla's birthday due to prior commitment, but Charles just would not take the hint!  He knows why she's never going to agree to attend that party!  I don't really blame him for making her come out and say it directly, but I also don't blame her for trying to avoid that conversation.

Well, irl Charles would have known the Queen's schedule that was planned months and years ahead, so there was no need for the discussion. And of course there was no chance about her attending at the party and thus publicly accepting Camilla.  

[Badger]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:36 AM, Roseanna said:

Well, irl Charles would have known the Queen's schedule that was planned months and years ahead, so there was no need for the discussion. And of course there was no chance about her attending at the party and thus publicly accepting Camilla.  

FWIW, a five-part miniseries called "The Queen" featured five different vignettes of her life, the last being when she finally met Camilla.  They also had Charles asking the Queen to attend the party and her claiming it interfered with an already scheduled appointment.

[Sweet-tea]

On 11/16/2023 at 6:54 PM, dubbel zout said:

Dodi was so weak, just as Charles was. It's depressing that Diana couldn't find someone who didn't see her as a trophy or window dressing. And she did need someone wealthy enough to provide her with the necessary security, so the doctor from last season would have never worked on that score alone.

I read somewhere the doctor was the one she really loved, and she was devastated when he broke up with her. 

Watching the scenes with Dodi reminded me of how short their relationship was, more of a fling than a big romance. The actor playing Dodi is good. ED has really captured Diana's speech and mannerisms. The actors playing the boys were well cast, at least in appearance. 

I don't like Charles but I felt for him in the scene with the Queen and the dogs. 

Dodi didn't treat his fiancee very well, did he? 

Re the question upthread about the duration of Diana and Dodi's relationship, according to article I read it was just about a month. Not sure if I'm allowed to link it here so I won't.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[turbogirlnyc]

I'm starting this season out of curiosity but haven't fully watched since season 4. I cannot get behind this show choosing a man far too handsome to portray Charles. And the actor isn't that handsome. But Charles is yuck. 

[Shrek]

16 minutes ago, turbogirlnyc said:

I'm starting this season out of curiosity but haven't fully watched since season 4. I cannot get behind this show choosing a man far too handsome to portray Charles. And the actor isn't that handsome. But Charles is yuck. 

Everyone is handsome to someone...................................thankfully.

[turbogirlnyc]

1 hour ago, Shrek said:

Everyone is handsome to someone...................................thankfully.

Well, someone referred to Diana as the most beautiful woman in the world. I guess this show has odd standards. Wasn't this back when supermodels were a thing? Lol

[Snapdragon]

On 11/17/2023 at 1:52 PM, lovinbob said:

 

How long did Dodi and Diana know each other. Was it that week in Saint Tropez and then their fatal trip to Paris? I didn't think their relationship was that brief. 

According to my very brief internet research (meaning I think this is all correct but I could be off on a few things), Diana and Dodi only dated for about a month or two.  They started in July 1997 and died at the end of August.  Seeing as how Diana had just ended her two year relationship with Dr. Khan (and according to everything I've read, it looks like Diana was actually the one to break things off, I think because he just wasn't feeling a life with a lack of privacy, though she was probably pretty broken up about it since she's quoted as referring to him as the "love of her life"), I would assume that the Fayed relationship was probably a rebound/summer fling type of thing.

I think because so much media attention was given to Fayed at the time of their deaths, it made their relationship seem way more serious than it was.  I was fifteen at the time and remember thinking that he had been her long term boyfriend.  

[CeeBeeGee]

On 11/17/2023 at 2:52 PM, lovinbob said:

Not only does Diana need tons of attention, I also think she has poor boundaries with her sons, esp. William. Her affection with them actually makes me somewhat uncomfortable, and she definitely shouldn't be badmouthing Camilla/charles to them. She doesn't have to be Camilla's cheerleader, but that whole "you know who" thing was ridiculous.

This, definitely. Her lack of boundaries with the boys has always bothered me, as great a mother as she's always seems in every other way. Some of it I'll chalk up to how very young she was when she first became a mother.

Charles: Love, Mummy? Love?
Queen: I don't want to debate this anymore. I'm going to be in Darbyshire.

Utterly savage shutdown.

And part of me is thinking--Charles was on a tear here. Nobody (except his wife, of course) had any problem with his carrying on--discreetly, of course--with Camilla. But Charles wanted to have his cake both ways. He didn't just want to be with Camilla, he wanted to win. He wanted everyone to acknowledge that he was right, that he had won. By God, he was going to rub him and Camilla in everyone's noses. And all to avoid being forced to acknowledge that he'd married Diana under false pretenses.

Mohamed: "For putting her on a plate for you." GROSS.

"Goodnight, Lillibet." I love Margaret ending the phone call first. Margaret is a favorite of mine. I fully acknowledge I doubt I would've liked her if I'd met her in person--she was faaaaaarrrr too rank-conscious--but I love her as a plot device.

"I don't want partial victory. This is war." YEP. Just like I said. Charles finds it offensive that Diana grabs headlines the day his paramour turns 50. He didn't just want to be with Camilla, he wanted to win. God forbid he admit he'd fucked up Diana's life or acted completely selfishly.

[Meowwww]

The actor portraying Charles, portrayed him as strong and confident.  I doubt this, I’m old and was around for his marriage with Diana and all the fallout.  Charles is weak.  I doubt he ever loudly proclaimed anything.  

Edited December 6, 2023 by Meowwww

[LadyIrony]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:09 AM, Roseanna said:

It was good that he had an entirely part in the last season: despite his achievements and wealth he has so long been looked down in Britain on because his origins and religion. 

I don't think he understood that instead of getting recohnition to himself, he was destroying Diana's reputation. Prejudices were too strong.

I think he was a social climber who wanted to  ingratiate himself into the Royal family thinking it would lift his profile and they weren't impressed by him. The Royals may be many things but they aren't stupid when it comes to these things. 

On 12/6/2023 at 2:23 PM, Meowwww said:

The actor portraying Charles, portrayed him as strong and confident.  I doubt this, I’m old and was around for his marriage with Diana and all the fallout.  Charles is weak.  I doubt he ever loudly proclaimed anything.  

For me the actor is too masculine looking and strong. Charles is more on the weedy side. The actor does a good job with the speech and mannerisms though.  

 

The odd thing about Dodi is his fiance in real life and the show is far better looking than Diana. I have always been very skeptical about Diana and her antics. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by LadyIrony