S35.E05: Yessir, the Pink City

[mertensia]

I think Steve did the lotus flowers roadblock.

[Ancaster]

18 hours ago, mertensia said:

That water tank was cool as hell.

Hell, it was all as cool as hell and beautiful as hell and spectacular as hell.  Hell, they could do the entire season in Rajasthan and I'd be happy as hell.  (Plus the people are fabulously good looking.)

(I am lucky enough to have spent some time there - when people ask those "where would you go/what was your favourite place/if you could  . . ."  type of questions, Rajasthan is always at or near the top of my list.)

Edited October 27, 2023 by Ancaster

[Ancaster]

9 hours ago, Hera said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, add learning to balance things on your head to the list of skills that you should master before going on the show, along with driving a manual transmission, learning to swim, and reading to map. Needing to balance things on your head doesn't happen as often as the other stuff, but it comes up surprisingly often and it's not a skill that will ever hurt a team to have mastered.

For some reason, as a child I used to practice walking around balancing books on my head to improve my comportment (too many British boarding school books probably).  Weird I know.

Anyway, I've realized that as well as the things you mentioned (which I've also said before and will no doubt say again!), doing some serious yoga practice would also be very beneficial in training for TAR - it's great for that balance, also flexibility, maintaining calm under duress, strength, endurance, and so on.

[Ancaster]

I have a grudging respect for Anna Leigh because she's a good racer, but she's certainly difficult to like, and I realized tonight that it looks like she got Botoxed up before the race - she's 28 and expressionless.  I'll take the kind of graceful aging that give us Phil's wrinkled forehead over her bland Barbie doll looks any day.

ETA:  I was sad that she didn't know what a rickshaw is.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Ancaster

[Haleth]

Wow!  That was a fun episode with a lot of suspense.  The sites were so beautiful!  The painted elephants, the gorgeous palaces, the Escher stairs, the jewel toned clothing... Breathtaking.  All my favs managed to squeak by in spite of some grueling challenges.  Although Steve and Anna Leigh had another win, it's nice to see some shake up in the results each week. 

Anna Leigh's competitiveness doesn't bother me.  She's just really focused on winning.  Kind of like Colin.  (Heh.)

Whew, Rob and Corey made up a whole lot of time after the disastrous dancing.  The judge at that task was fun.  I had to feel sorry for the professional dancers who had to perform dozens and dozens of times.  The extras looked extra bored after a while.

I laughed when Morgan and Lena were arguing and the amazing editors cut to the squabbling monkeys.

I hate the Uturn and the idea that teams get to interfere with other racers.  I'd prefer it if race positions were determined by performance rather than Survivorlike plotting.  It's unfair that strong teams (and/or less gregarious teams) get punished.

[chaifan]

15 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I also noticed Yeremi took his hair down, which I thought was odd because the manbun would have given him better balance. But that might be why they made him take it down.

Anna Leigh's hair was also down.  I think you're right - it would be too easy to use a man bun or high pony tail to have something for the "donut" to rest against, so racers had to have their hair down.  I also noticed in his final attempt, Corey had an additional piece of fabric draped over his head.  I don't know if his head was getting sweaty, or maybe the lighter material didn't have any grip on that fabulous mane of his.  But it seemed to help keep the donut from sliding. 

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

The painted elephants, the gorgeous palaces, the Escher stairs, the jewel toned clothing...

Note to Andrea:  Bright orange is your color!  She looked amazing in that dance outfit! 

2nd Note to Andrea, and Malania: ditch the souvenir hats!  They look ridiculous and don't fit in your packs.  Did they actually spend some of their race money on those???

6 hours ago, Ancaster said:

I have a grudging respect for Anna Leigh because she's a good racer, but she's certainly difficult to like, and I realized tonight that it looks like she got Botoxed up before the race - she's 28 and expressionless. 

I don't get the Botox feel for AL, but I do for Ashlie, plus some major injections/fillers.  She's stuck on permanent Joker smile. 

 

[iMonrey]

14 hours ago, Souris said:

Anna Leigh and Steve are a surprisingly strong team. The U-turn foreshadowing was strong with them.

I think it's either going to be them, or Robbin and Chelsea. There was another comment this week (from Todd and Ashlie) about how they were "in it to win it" and didn't want to help anyone else.

11 hours ago, mertensia said:

I think Steve did the lotus flowers roadblock.

Oh that's right. And they finished near the bottom of the pack that week. 

[rr2911]

Love Anna Leigh!  I hope they win TAR!

Even though AL and her dad have a great chance of being u-turned I till like that fact that teams must make a choice and not wimp out.  I also like that no one will know who voted for whom.

Glad that that team was eliminated.

If AL and her dad don't win, my second choice are the sisters.

I still don't like that teams tell the taxi drivers to hurry up.  Very irritating!

[KeithJ]

I'm still not sure I'm going to like the vote for the U-Turn.  Although we got some hints from some of the teams who they may be targeting, there are two trains of thought here:

#1 - U-Turn the front runner to try to get them eliminated
#2 - U-Turn someone close behind you to make sure you don't get eliminated

I'm not sure which I would pick but I'm guessing it's going to be #1 and be Steve and "C'mon dad" Anna (don't get me wrong, I like them).

Edited October 27, 2023 by KeithJ

[PaperTree]

26 minutes ago, rr2911 said:

I still don't like that teams tell the taxi drivers to hurry up.  Very irritating!

After all these seasons (That kinda blur together) have we seen anybody get pulled over?

[Sarahsmile416]

Rob and Corey have officially become one of my favorite teams ever.  So positive.  Just love them.  Team Coda for the win!

I do not like AL -  the competitiveness bugs but it’s not just that.  She seems super fake.  I liked Robbin and Chelsea prior to this episode, but this episode they bugged.  

All the other teams are likable - the fact that I can only find one team to root against I’m happy about.  

[Roccos Brother]

While I do think the puppet task was easier (or at least quicker, since it didn't involve running around), I don't see how anyone could struggle with the mural challenge. You have a limited number of "characters" to work with so you know exactly what to systematically hone in on and once you mess up the first few times, you begin to pick up on what subtle details to look out for. If Morgan and Lena hadn't messed up so bad, there's no way Joel and Ian would have stood a chance. I was hoping to see them beat Morgan and Lena in a foot race to the mat - but sadly, it was not as dramatic as that.

Watching the teams play with the puppets at the end of the challenge was adorable.

It could be the "villain edit", but I'm not feeling Robbin and Chelsea's vibe. There's something about Robbin that feels very Karen-esque.

Greg and John are still adorable, but pink team is my current fav of those remaining.

The water tank was gorgeous and almost looked like a painting - similar to a backdrop in old Hollywood films.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Roccos Brother

[watch2much]

so glad Rob and Corey made it through.  Seeing how much joy being in the race is bringing to Rob is a delight.  I'm sure they want to win, but Rob just seems like he is enjoying the experience so much.

I also have come to admire Andrea, and Malania.  no drama, just get the job done attitude.  

As for AL, she puts her money where her mouth is.  good for her.  her father must be used to her talking to him like that and takes it in stride.

[Browncoat]

22 minutes ago, Roccos Brother said:

I don't see how anyone could struggle with the mural challenge. You have a limited number of "characters" to work with so you know exactly what to systematically hone in on and once you mess up the first few times, you begin to pick up on what subtle details to look out for.

There were a lot of cut outs, each with very slight differences, and they were scattered over a large area.  Add in the heat and fatigue, and I can see how it would be a major struggle to figure out tiny things like the one figure having a small brooch or crossed scarves instead of a single scarf.  And once you figure it out, you have to run all over the place to find the right figure.  

[calvinshobbes]

25 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

There were a lot of cut outs, each with very slight differences, and they were scattered over a large area.  Add in the heat and fatigue, and I can see how it would be a major struggle to figure out tiny things like the one figure having a small brooch or crossed scarves instead of a single scarf.  And once you figure it out, you have to run all over the place to find the right figure.  

also one of the teams said they were only allowed to take one piece at a time back so they couldnt gather three or four of the similar pieces back to compare wiith the picture. 

[SVNBob]

On 10/26/2023 at 1:44 PM, Tango64 said:

Maybe it's just how it was explained. And didn't the preview show a U-turn board with all the team pics, like a normal U-turn? That added to my confusion because if they voted before the leg, it seems there would just be the one unlucky team's pic at the U-turn. 

But I'll trust you're all correct with how it works.

That's the "voting booth" and not the actual U-Turn point.  The preview showed the teams talking about their possible votes at that sign, not that they'd been voted for or not.

Plus a commercial for the episode shows how it works.  You place your own team photo over the photo of the team you want to vote for and it slides down into the sign.  I assume the border at the bottom of the sign covers containers for collecting the votes and there's either a counting device built into the sign, or the containers at the bottom are also labeled for which team they represent for manual counting.  (Of course, that's in addition to the production team at the sign watching all the voting going down.  They can keep a relatively simple tally.)

 

 

On 10/26/2023 at 4:11 PM, calvinshobbes said:

if 4 teams vote for one team and 4 for another, is it possible for  two teams will do the double uturn? The teams probably wouldnt have enough interactions to pull off that survivor move though. 

In other versions of TAR that have used the U-Turn vote more regularly (and/or the Yield vote variant), tie votes have resulted in multiple teams getting penalized.

 

 

On 10/26/2023 at 6:55 PM, illdoc said:

Since there are 9 teams, if it is a 4-4 tie, the "9th" team would have to revote for one of the two teams in the tie (remember, they are doing all the voting before the start of the leg, so there would be time for that one team to vote again without affecting anything). Now, at some later point in this (or another season) if there is a tie (or even a 3-3-3 this time), I don't know what they would do. Make everyone revote? Have a double (or triple) U Turn?

Given the above statement, I don't think there will be any "re-voting".   And Double U-Turns have been a thing before, so there's no issue with that.

 

 

22 hours ago, Ancaster said:

I have a grudging respect for Anna Leigh because she's a good racer, but she's certainly difficult to like, and I realized tonight that it looks like she got Botoxed up before the race - she's 28 and expressionless.  I'll take the kind of graceful aging that give us Phil's wrinkled forehead over her bland Barbie doll looks any day.

ETA:  I was sad that she didn't know what a rickshaw is.

TBF, those looked more like tuk-tuks than rickshaws.  You typically expect a rickshaw to be human powered.

[dancingdreamer]

On 10/26/2023 at 1:13 PM, aghst said:

I don't recall that.

I thought it was first to the U-turn board so that the dual tasks come up right after.

Unless they collect the votes on the next leg and then it comes into effect the leg after that.

I believe  you're  right, sorry for the wrong info.

[dgpolo]

17 hours ago, calvinshobbes said:

also one of the teams said they were only allowed to take one piece at a time back so they couldnt gather three or four of the similar pieces back to compare wiith the picture. 

Yes, I heard that too but then saw some teams carrying more than one 'prop' so I think it was just the cut outs that they could only do one at a time. In the previous episode (or maybe the one before that) one person was looking at a booklet and I got the impression that maybe that was the full rules and requirements for the upcoming task? They need something that lays out the minutiae of the tasks and what is and is not acceptable.

[dgpolo]

20 hours ago, PaperTree said:

After all these seasons (That kinda blur together) have we seen anybody get pulled over?

Sorry for the double post, there was a speed trap in Botswana? season 22? where two teams were caught speeding and had to pay a ticket before proceeding. Googling says speeding = time penalty but seemed unsure if that was only when self-driving or if cabbies also counted. Seemed to say that most incidents would be edited out unless affecting the game in some other way. Most examples seemed to be from other countries versions of TAR

[chitowngirl]

8 hours ago, SVNBob said:

TBF, those looked more like tuk-tuks than rickshaws.  You typically expect a rickshaw to be human powered.

Agreed! When they got in what I thought was a tuk-tuk, I thought it was a mistake that they’d have to correct.

[iMonrey]

20 hours ago, Roccos Brother said:

While I do think the puppet task was easier (or at least quicker, since it didn't involve running around), I don't see how anyone could struggle with the mural challenge.

I think what made the biggest difference is that the judging for the Doll task was a lot more lax than the judging for the Wall task. The show tries to make both challenges more or less equal in terms of how long it should take to do them, and making the puppets is more labor intensive. But I don't think the judge was very picky about how well they were constructed, and certainly not how well they "performed," because Anna Leigh and Steve's puppets weren't even touching the ground when they were supposed to "dance." 

The Wall, on the other hand, had to be perfect, there was no wiggle room for sloppy workmanship. Still, as I noted upthread, both Greg and John and Malaina and Andrea managed to finish in the top four (Greg and John were #2) after doing the wall task. So "Doll" seeming easier might have been due more to editing, and team-specific.

[PaperTree]

3 hours ago, dgpolo said:

Sorry for the double post, there was a speed trap in Botswana? season 22? where two teams were caught speeding and had to pay a ticket before proceeding. Googling says speeding = time penalty but seemed unsure if that was only when self-driving or if cabbies also counted. Seemed to say that most incidents would be edited out unless affecting the game in some other way. Most examples seemed to be from other countries versions of TAR

Thanks!  So it's pretty rare.

[QuantumMechanic]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:52 PM, chaifan said:

That doesn't make sense to me.  I got the impression that no team is allowed to say "we're not using the U-turn".  Every team must use the U-turn.  I'm not getting the sense that there's any advance voting to be had, just that when they reach the U-turn board they have to play it.  (People speculated on this advance voting thing a few episodes ago, and it made no sense to me then, either.)

Phil said "sometime before the next leg there will be a mandatory vote.  It will be a blind vote".

I don't see how to interpret that other than as that right before (or right after) ripping the clue to start the leg each team will have to vote on who to U-turn.

I'm assuming they'll tell Phil (or the camera) who they are voting to U-turn, though that info will not be put on the U-turn board ("a blind vote").  I would then expect the picture of the "winners" of the vote will be put on the U-turn board and they'll be U-turned whether they're the first team to arrive at the U-turn board or the last team or any team in-between.

[Babalu06]

5 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Agreed! When they got in what I thought was a tuk-tuk, I thought it was a mistake that they’d have to correct.

When I was in India many years ago, we called them motorized rickshaws, but they’re also called auto rickshaws or just rickshaws or tuk tuks.

[Lady Calypso]

I ended up just getting around to watching this episode. Beautiful episode, filled with some surprisingly challenging tasks and some team placement shifts.

I did like that we had such a close race to the mat at the end. I can't recall the last time we had the last couple of teams THAT close to the mat. Of course, would have been fun to see a literal foot race, but a rickshaw race was fun too.

It's a shame Morgan/Lena have crashed hard since the start of the race. They started off strong but have made crucial mistakes in the last couple of legs now that have put them at the back of the pack. I like them personally, so it is disappointing to see. But taking two hours to do the Wall task? I guess they were all kind of taking longer than the Doll task, but it should have been a task where you just need to double check each and every moving piece. It's not even checking the actual mural painting, it's checking the pieces that are supposed to be put on the Wall. Double check all of those, triple check even, and it should have been a task that took less than an hour. Alas, a lot of teams seemed to stumble into issues. I mean, Joe/Ian still got there in the middle of the pack and left last, so it's not just Morgan/Lena having difficulties.

Poor Corey struggled with the balancing task but I'm glad him and Rob jumped ahead with the Doll task. It seems like the Doll task ended up being a lot quicker. The Wall task tripped people up if they got it wrong the first couple of times, but even with the faster teams, it seemed like the Doll task was overall faster. Greg/John made a note that the entire palace was covered in the pieces, so it ended up being the teams needing to run around the entire place to find what they were looking for. No wonder that ended up eating time. Sure, Greg/John showed that they were more efficient by finishing second, but they also managed to still keep a high placement as a result. Same with Andrea/Malaina. 

I think the Wall task required efficiency. Probably the best way to approach that task is memorize each piece of art that needed to be replicated, run back and forth to find the piece you've memorized, then get your partner to triple check to make sure it matched the painting. 

It seems like Robbin/Chelsea may be rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. Now, I think they have the right idea in that they need to focus on the race and not other teams. Help yourself first, other teams can figure it out themselves. That being said, it sounds like the way they're approaching the "race for themselves" tactic is turning off other teams entirely. And although I agree with their thought process, their execution seems to be noticed by others, and this is why they're in the running to be the U-Turned team. And it's why, as small as the social game is in a show like this, it still matters on how you treat other teams. 

Robbin/Chelsea do not owe any teams a helping hand, at all. But I think by flat out ignoring teams is causing a lot of trouble. Now, the Anna Leigh stuff from last episode made me annoyed by Anna Leigh. She was being hypocritical by not helping Todd and still being offended by Chelsea not helping her. But Todd/Ashlie are also voicing that R/C's "in it to win it" attitude is something that may be a pattern that is going to turn out badly for them.

Unlike the Anna Leigh situation, where I totally was on Chelsea's side for not agreeing to help her, this time around, Robbin/Chelsea flat out ignored Todd/Ashlie asking about a certain direction (knowing they came from that way, anyway). There's a middle ground between literally teaming up to complete something and flat out going out of your way to NOT help another team in any way. And with how Robbin/Chelsea had talked about them not connecting with other teams during the first airport drama segment, I think we're seeing a disconnect between them and everyone else that could come back to bite them. Or maybe not, maybe other teams don't really care and are gonna shrug it off by simply never helping Robbin/Chelsea.

Overall, very interesting leg. I still love Rob/Corey and Greg/John. Other teams are growing on me as well. I'm sad about Joe/Ian but glad they never got to the miscommunication aspect that both were so worried about.

[Meowwww]

AL is on my last nerve.  “Come on dad” “let’s go dad” “hurry dad” ad nauseum.  So bossy.  

[Netfoot]

I have no issues with Anna Leigh. That she is team leader may be surprising to some but I find no fault in it.  She has been a little hypocritical in the past over teams cooperating with her team (or not) but I don't see that as any sort of real issue. 

And from the standpoint of someone who admires competent and indefatigable competitors in the race, Anna Leigh pretty much holds top spot this season. 

Blind, mandatory U-turn. There are nine teams left. There could be three teams that receive three votes each. I assume all three of those teams would Be U-turned. But in fact it is actually possible (though I grant, highly unlikely) that every team in the race receive a single vote, leading to a nine-way tie and all teams required to do both sides of the challenge.

Thing about U-turns, no matter which type, is they should always be placed at the start of the leg. If the Detour is just before the pitstop it becomes an almost certain death-sentence for whoever is U-turned. Any team who finds themselves U-turned should have at least a reasonable chance to make up some lost time and stay in the race. Otherwise the U-turn is little else but a Wipe-Out-Your-Enemy feature of the race, and I don't think such features should be tolerated.

I am enjoying the "Classic" nature of this season. A lot of the gimmicks added in later seasons have been peeled away. Mugging, marked for elimination, speed bumps, etc, all eliminated with the NEL. And no mactors, influenzas, reality stars, or any of that which we pretty much all hated. I'm not seeing anyone mugging for the camera or trying to grow their brand. Just a field of racers made up of ordinary people from all walks of life. And I am loving it.

I've not yet picked a team to root for, for overall win. This is probably because there are several teams I would be happy to see winning. Since there are really no villeins in the race I don't have anyone I particularly want to see losing, either.

[Cotypubby]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:54 PM, Browncoat said:

 

I feel like they've been to that MC Escher building before, and had a task there.  Did I dream that, or was that a thing -- maybe from an early season?

 

I definitely remembered seeing those stairs before! Googling it I see it was season 2 of the Amazing Race Australia. They had to walk down and up a certain number of stairs to arrive at a particular location.

[rr2911]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:43 PM, KeithJ said:

I'm still not sure I'm going to like the vote for the U-Turn.  Although we got some hints from some of the teams who they may be targeting, there are two trains of thought here:

#1 - U-Turn the front runner to try to get them eliminated
#2 - U-Turn someone close behind you to make sure you don't get eliminated

I'm not sure which I would pick but I'm guessing it's going to be #1 and be Steve and "C'mon dad" Anna (don't get me wrong, I like them).

I like that teams have to vote to u-turn a team.  In previous seasons it was getting irritating when a u-turn was coming and teams played nice and didn't u-turn anyone.  The drama would build up and then a huge let down.

I agree, the father and daughter team probably will be u-turned.

[SHERMDOG]

Soo......I know this will be unpopular...do NOT care for the father/daughter team...meaning...the DAUGHTER. UHH..

kind of a mean girl...and she has a fake nose and lips...and yeah...u know that should NOT cloud my judgement...but it does. Can't stand her..I know I'm in the minority

[iMonrey]

On 10/29/2023 at 7:59 PM, Meowwww said:

AL is on my last nerve.  “Come on dad” “let’s go dad” “hurry dad” ad nauseum.  So bossy.  

Very reminiscent of "C'mon Charla, hurry Charla, c'mon Charla, hurry up Charla, hurry Charla . . . "

That doesn't really bother me, TBH. But I bet it bugs the hell out of Steve.

[aradia22]

Late to this one so I'll try to keep it quick.

It was sad to lose Ian and Joe just as we were really starting to see their personalities. They were cute and funny and fairly competent racers aside from a bit of bickering. I think they were just too far behind with the dancing and didn't make up any time at the detour.

The Bhavanian foot dance was a fun roadblock because it combined choreo with balancing and there was no way to just fly through it. You had to get it right. Even if they'd been so inclined, the judge couldn't let you go through because it was obvious if the pots fell off your head. Credit to Anna Leigh for getting out of there first with 3 attempts and John and Morgan with 2 attempts. John actually seemed decent at it. Same with Andrea who took 6 attempts but looked graceful. The worst dancers were probably Yeremi and Corey (15 attempts!) who looked stiff and awkward even when they succeeded. Also, I kept thinking to myself that having my teammate yelling encouragement during the task would be distracting and incredibly annoying. 

I liked the balance between the two detours. I would have picked the dolls because I liked crafting but it also ended up being the much easier task. Maybe they were scared off by the "performance" part but everyone seemed to just shake the dolls for a minute before getting the clue. Mimicking the painting wasn't impossible but they're being very tricky with memory tasks lately and it involved a lot of running around. 

Interestingly, Anna Leigh & Steve and Greg & John seemed far ahead. Then Joel & Garrett, Andrea & Malaina, Todd & Ashlie, and Corey & Robb all bunched up at the mat. So there was some room to shake up the order but the tasks didn't seem to take that long. Then we had Robin & Chelsea and Liam & Yeremi, and Morgan & Lena and Joe & Ian at the end. Finally, the editors had a genuine race to the finish to work with. Honestly, Morgan & Lena worked quick for switching detours. I think they just bicker way too much. They're relatively competent racers who waste a lot of time arguing and stressing each other out.

[aradia22]

Quote

I don't really know which one is Lena and which one is Morgan, but the way they, as a collective unit, "accidentally" almost throw eels in each other's faces and/or "accidentally" almost stab those faces with needles* is hilarious. I can't wait for the next facial near-accident. 

* after which the editors cut to the scene of the monkeys fighting, just as "accidentally"

Morgan is the older one who tends to make mean, unhelpful comments. Lena is the younger one who gets stressed out. Funnily enough, Morgan got the eels and the needle in her face though she's the one provoking a lot of the fights 😄 Maybe Lena retaliates in her own way. 

Quote

Oh yes, Morgan was totally wrong to be leaning in like that. Their team set-up in the first episode was about Morgan learning to see Lena as an adult friend instead of a kid sister, and this episode showed that Morgan has a long way to go, what with the gratuitous geography quiz and sewing micro-managing.

Agreed. I'm sure they're dealing with other stuff like navigation but mostly it seems like they get in their own ways sniping at each other. The vinyl task is one of the few where I remember them not arguing and Morgan being supportive. 

[aradia22]

Quote

It could be the "villain edit", but I'm not feeling Robbin and Chelsea's vibe. There's something about Robbin that feels very Karen-esque.

Quote

It seems like Robbin/Chelsea may be rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. Now, I think they have the right idea in that they need to focus on the race and not other teams. Help yourself first, other teams can figure it out themselves. That being said, it sounds like the way they're approaching the "race for themselves" tactic is turning off other teams entirely. And although I agree with their thought process, their execution seems to be noticed by others, and this is why they're in the running to be the U-Turned team. And it's why, as small as the social game is in a show like this, it still matters on how you treat other teams. 

I wonder if they're pushing a few bad moments in the edit or actually being generous and leaving things out. Given her backstory, it's surprising Robbin is getting the villain edit. She seems to dislike animals, some of the locations, the other racers... Everyone is going to have their moments but she seems particularly grumpy and that's a tough personality to like on a season when everyone is generally upbeat and enthusiastic. And she doesn't even snark or make jokes like Joe and Ian did. It's just.. unpleasant.