S01.E01: Pilot

[Whimsy]

A 200-year-old man works in the New York City Morgue trying to find a key to unlock the curse of his immortality.

 

 

The pilot is available on Hulu.  This thread is a spoiler zone until the episode airs on network television.

[Whimsy]

Just watched this on Hulu.  It's pretty similar to New Amsterdam.  The premise is the same, the working for the police is the same (although in a different field of medical examiner vs cop), the "son" having a bar is the same...  Isn't the love interest in New Amsterdam the doctor?  I can't remember.  It's been awhile, but if it was then they just swapped professions for the romantic leads.

 

I hated the voice over.  I've watched 4 new fall shows on Hulu and 3 of them have voice over.  I hated 2 of those voice overs and this is one of them.  I do understand some shows that have a lot of background and info to get through in the pilot will rely heavily on them.  I just hope this is something that will drop off as people get used to the premise. 

 

Overall, not my favorite.  I liked New Amsterdam better.  But, I am a fan of Ioan Gruffudd so I'll give it a few episodes to find it's footing.

[bros402]

I watched it too, because New Amsterdam was a show that got cancelled a bit too soon.

 

The voice over made it venture into cheesy territory at times - we don't need our hands held with the explanations. Seems like it might find its footing after a 2-3 episodes, maybe 6 at the most.

[ApathyMonger]

I didn't hate it. The voiceover's annoying, and it feels very generic, but I might watch again. I really hope they don't draw out the whole "secret" stuff too long, both with the cops and the other ME. I can see that getting tired real fast, and it's going to seem ridiculous if he starts dying and resurrecting on a regular basis with no-one noticing.

I like Ioan Gruffudd, even if he's basically just playing Sherlock Holmes. It suffers from some of the same problems as the other Sherlock shows, in that to make sure we know that the main character is a genius, everyone around him is made to seem like idiots who can't do their jobs properly.

It's nice to see Judd Hirsch on TV again. He does not look 79 years old.

The fantasy stuff seems fairly predictable so far. It's decent enough as a hook, but I'm not all that interested in whatever convoluted answer they have (or, more likely, plan to make up later) for why it happens.

Edited August 27, 2014 by ApathyMonger

[owlzilla]

It was decent enough but certainly nothing I haven't seen before.  If I continue watching it will only be because I have questions that need answers.  Where does his old body go when he dies and is resurrected?  Does it simply disappear into thin air?  When he resurrects into water, is it simply any body of water or the closest body of water or...?  

 

The one thing I did like is that the mysterious "fan" wasn't just a creeper who noticed too much but someone who is in the same situation as Henry.  The mystery of why this is happening to him is more interesting to me if the answer isn't just that he's "special".

[Whimsy]

I forgot to mention the similarities this has to The Mentalist. When he was listing off the clues that led him to his speculations I thought "Patrick Jane".

[MartinKSmith]

Add me to the list of people who watched this because they enjoyed New Amsterdam. I don't remember much from NA, but I remembered the basic premise, which is what drew me to this when I saw the trailer. 

 

I enjoyed it for what it was, the whole show had a sort of fairy tale quality to it, which I think was, in large part, down to Ioan's voiceover - perhaps his accent? I'm not sure. I could have done without it though. 

 

I'm not sure I'm in for the long haul, but I'll definitely give it a few more episodes before making final judgement. 

[kassygreene]

I did enjoy the pilot, and I'll keep watching.  I mostly liked NA, but I hated that search for the "one twu love" that would allow him to die.  I was also aggravated by how careless they were with their own damn timeline (he had to have had two overlapping families at the turn of the last century, both in NYC).

 

But this show isn't doing that.  IG is likeable and I've enjoyed his work since Hornblower.  Judd Hirsch is sweet in this.  And Alana De La Garza sold her character to me.

 

However, IMDB just told me that Hirsch and De La Garza are only in one episode.  The only people in more than one ep (so far) are IG and Lorraine Toussaint.  Episode 2 will be like a new pilot?

[Kromm]

Wow, this was smelly shit.  New Amsterdam, with even MORE cliches tossed in.

 

In theory we've got better actors involved, but the writing seems even worse.  

 

BTW:  Didn't they actually think that maybe the FIRST thing we might want to know is "what happens to the body when he dies"?  I mean he's got Judd Hirsh right there looking at it, so whatever he says about not knowing any more than us is bunk, because if he simply dematerializes, or if the old body turns to dust, or if he teleports, or whatever happens... it's relevant.

However, IMDB just told me that Hirsch and De La Garza are only in one episode.  The only people in more than one ep (so far) are IG and Lorraine Toussaint.  Episode 2 will be like a new pilot?

IMDB is very inaccurate on things like this.  Just because they don't list actors in other episodes (yet) doesn't mean that they aren't in them.

[Snarkette]

A little bit Sleepy Hollow, a lot of New Amsterdam, too much Sherlock Holmes (and any rip of Sherlock), and the stupidest superpower since Aquaman. How many times did he die in the pilot? How will they keep this up?  Who does he think he is? Kenny from South Park? (Who by the way does it better).

 

Oh well, it's exactly the perfect kind of stupid that pulls me in and I can't escape from. Hello Forever. I'm yours for the three episodes until you're cancelled.

[thewhiteowl]

I liked it but then I'm fond of a good ham and cheese.

It's got a few gaping plot holes and I remember the actor playing the detective from somewhere and thinking she wasn't very good. She seemed okay here but then she's going to have to be fairly naïve to put up with the ME's bull shit. It was good to see Judd Hirsh.

[Kromm]

I remember the actor playing the detective from somewhere and thinking she wasn't very good.

I think the only thing of note in her CV was Law & Order, where she played one of the five million interchangeable female ADAs.

EDIT - Oh, how did I miss it.  She was also HoCaine's murdered wife on CSI: Sunglasses.

 

Cue sad music and bad acting...

 

[thewhiteowl]

I think the only thing of note in her CV was Law & Order, where she played one of the five million interchangeable female ADAs.

 

 That's it, thanks Kromm. 

[Kromm]

 That's it, thanks Kromm. 

Yeah, unless it was that acting she did next to that block of cheese/wood David Caruso that you were remembering (see addition to my above post).

[ApathyMonger]

However, IMDB just told me that Hirsch and De La Garza are only in one episode.  The only people in more than one ep (so far) are IG and Lorraine Toussaint.  Episode 2 will be like a new pilot?

IMDb generally doesn't add casts to TV episodes until after the episode airs.

[Primetimer]

In Forever, Ioan Gruffudd becomes the latest dude to play a mysterious immortal crime-solver. Do you need to care about it/him?

Read the story

[attica]

I watched every flipping episode of Century City. I only admit that in the anonymous part of the internet.

God, I hate these kinds of shows. And...I'm probably gonna watch. Sigh.

[Lindsey]

Maybe after this one tanks TV will finally figure out that what it really needs to do with Ioan Gruffudd is make more Horatio Hornblower movies. There are a bunch more books, they cover a long enough period in Horblower's life that Gruffudd could just keep returning to the series every few years and it would make sense, and the movies are filled with fun period details like the unremitting hell that was life on a 19th century naval ship. Everyone wins!

Instead we get a knock off of a show that didn't work the first time(s).

[Kromm]

Maybe after this one tanks TV will finally figure out that what it really needs to do with Ioan Gruffudd is make more Horatio Hornblower movies. There are a bunch more books, they cover a long enough period in Horblower's life that Gruffudd could just keep returning to the series every few years and it would make sense, and the movies are filled with fun period details like the unremitting hell that was life on a 19th century naval ship. Everyone wins!

Instead we get a knock off of a show that didn't work the first time(s).

Didn't the TV movies not even get as far as him being a Captain?  I mean we had his whole Captaincy, Commodoreship and Admiralty left to make movies about.

[bantering]

I watched this show just for Ioan Gruffudd.

[thewhiteowl]

I watched this show just for Ioan Gruffudd.

 

 He is reason enough.

[mizminnie]

Ummm ...just one minor thing. IG ACTUALLY meets Judd Hirsch's character pretty much when he was a baby (found in a cencentration camp, hence the tattoo on Abe's arm). So he probably raised him?
It mght not be the best show this season, but it has IG and I found it quite charming. This is one of those things that I'd like to watch on a rainy afternoon on my couch. So I'll tune in.
There are A LOT worse shows coming this season ....

[lucindabelle]

I loved it. I seem to be the only one here who never saw New Amsterdam, so maybe that's why. I have also loved Ioan since Hornblower and even watched that weird show with Sara Michelle Geller and her evil twin too long because of him.

Maybe because I'm Jewish but seeing the tattooed number on huge baby and then seeing it again on Judd Hirschmann made me cry, that is his son, and that's why we kept seeing the baby's face, it was perfect moment when he met the son (adopted obviously) and the nurse who would be his wife.

All in.

[Grammaeryn]

Maybe because I'm Jewish but seeing the tattood number on huge baby and then seeing it again on Judd Hirschman made me cry, that is his son, and that's why we kept seeing the baby's face, it was perfect moment when he met the son (adopted obviously) nd the nurse who woild be his wifa.

All in.

I'm Jewish too and that one connection had me reconsidering the meh-ness of the pilot. It isn't a must-see show for me but I'll casually check in until it gets cancelled. Also, is it just me or these shows where they need to keep up a cover story always have scenes where a woman has to be told, "Oh, it's all in your head." Just once I'd like to see a teamster size man being told, "You imagined it." /rant off

[Kromm]

Maybe because I'm Jewish but seeing the tattood number on huge baby and then seeing it again on Judd Hirschman made me cry, that is his son, and that's why we kept seeing the baby's face, it was perfect moment when he met the son (adopted obviously) nd the nurse who woild be his wifa.

All in.

It's just a nitpick, but I actually think his name really IS Judd Hirsch, without the "man".  I know it sounds like it's a stage name/shortening, but Google-Fu-ing seems to find nothing but support for it actually being real.

[shapeshifter]

I loved it. I seem to be the only one here who never saw New Amaterdam, so maybe that's why. I have also loved Iaon since Hornblower and even watched that weird show with sara Michelle Geller and her evil twin too long because of him.

Maybe because I'm Jewish but seeing the tattood number on huge baby and then seeing it again on [Judd Hirsch] made me cry, that is his son, and that's why we kept seeing the baby's face, it was perfect moment when he met the son (adopted obviously) nd the nurse who woild be his wifa.

All in.

I'm not sure if I loved it at the moment when Henry kissed Abe on the head in a fatherly way, or if it was long before that, but yeah, everything is better with Judd Hirsch.

But with so many nay-sayers, I wont get too attached. Plus, I'm not sure that JH will have a very big role.

They should have Jamie Bamber guest star as a long lost distant relative of Henry's. They sure look alike to me.

[lucindabelle]

So sorry I know it is Judd Hirsch for some reason my ipad made that change and just tried to do it again! Also I'm sure I didn't mean to write huge baby. Sheesh.

I'm not 100% sure now that I think about it that nazis tattood babies... Thought they just killed them... But I'll go with that because the connection was moving and demonstrated what it's like to stay young while your children age, too.

Of course not one word has been said about how he's miraculously staying in his 40s (not dying doesn't necessarily mean not aging) but again I like IG so I'll go with it...

Edited September 6, 2014 by lucindabelle

[thewhiteowl]

 

I'm not 100% sure now that I think about it that nazis tattood babies... Thought they just killed them... But I'll go with that because the connection was moving and demonstrated what it's like to stay young while your children age, too.

 

 I realize it was done to show the connection but it seemed odd to me as well. If the Nazis did tattoo babies it certainly wasn't the worse thing they did but a tattoo on a baby would not be recognizable on an adult, as the child grew it would be a blurry, stretched out mess.

I can hand-wave that. lol

 

[shapeshifter]

As I watched it, I kept imagining the actor aging if the series continues for enough years.

John Barrowman, one of my favorite TV crushes, was the ageless Captain Jack Harkness from 2005-2011, and it made me sad to see him age because Captain Jack should not. He still looks great, but it makes it hard for me to suspend disbelief while watching. Probably most people don't have this problem. Maybe it's because I've drawn and painted realistic portraits since I was young.

[owlzilla]

As I watched it, I kept imagining the actor aging if the series continues for enough years.

John Barrowman, one of my favorite TV crushes, was the ageless Captain Jack Harkness from 2005-2011, and it made me sad to see him age because Captain Jack should not. He still looks great, but it makes it hard for me to suspend disbelief while watching. Probably most people don't have this problem. Maybe it's because I've drawn and painted realistic portraits since I was young.

 

This is my problem with every vampire show I have ever seen.  I really think any show where we are supposed to believe someone is ageless should only last four years or less.  Or perhaps they could plan the story out, and then film in in four years even if they spread the episodes into five or six seasons.

[shapeshifter]

This is my problem with every vampire show I have ever seen.  I really think any show where we are supposed to believe someone is ageless should only last four years or less.  Or perhaps they could plan the story out, and then film in in four years even if they spread the episodes into five or six seasons.

That didn't occur to me while watching--probably because I just saw an interview with a series writer who said he didn't even like to work with a show bible because he liked to create the story in response to how it was played out on screen--sorry, I don't recall who it was. Anyhoo...I was thinking they should have the actor wear some aging makeup--just enough so that at the end of the series he (or she) wouldn't have to.

[Just Here]

However, IMDB just told me that Hirsch and De La Garza are only in one episode.  The only people in more than one ep (so far) are IG and Lorraine Toussaint.  Episode 2 will be like a new pilot?

 

IMDb is essentially a wiki that can be edited by anyone, so it is far from a definitive source.  The press release for the second episode (via TheFutonCritic.com) lists six regulars:

 

"Forever" stars Ioan Gruffudd as Henry, Judd Hirsch as Abe, Alana De La Garza as Detective Jo Martinez, Lorraine Toussaint as Lt. Joanne Reece, Donnie Keshawarz as Detective Hanson and Joel David Moore as Lucas.

 

Though, whether every regular appears in every episode remains to be seen.

[Just Here]

I like Ioan Gruffudd, even if he's basically just playing Sherlock Holmes. It suffers from some of the same problems as the other Sherlock shows, in that to make sure we know that the main character is a genius, everyone around him is made to seem like idiots who can't do their jobs properly.

 

Except Henry didn't do his job properly: His earlier exam of the subway conductor missed the obvious trauma (where the poison was applied) behind the conductor's ear. -- This was my one major procedural nitpick, even under "TV Rules."  (And, this isn't a nitpick of your statement, just using it as a jumping off point.)

 

 

Regarding this pilot, add my voice to those who hated the voiceover.  I think a better alternative, especially given that Judd Hirsch's character is Henry's pyschological son, would have been to use a gateway character who discovers Morgan's secret early on in the pilot.  E.g., Henry calls Joel David Moore's character to rescue him because Hirsch's character is stuck in traffic somewhere.

 

I would have liked to see Alana de la Garza's character have a bit more personality, but that could easily get ironed out over the next several episodes.  But, at least we have a female TV homicide detective whose actress is actually old enough to realistically be a homicide detective, let alone just have a detective's badge:  Wikipedia lists de la Garza's age as 38 (born in June 1976).

 

The pilot's mystery-of-the-week did not seem as tight as it could have been (even without the "Oops, I missed a major clue" issue mentioned above).  I was uncertain as to whether we're supposed to think that the Mysterious Caller is just a Very Interested Observer. or a criminal mastermind who is pulling strings from behind a curtain.

 

And, I had to laugh at seeing Bones "squint" alum Joel David Moore as a medical examiner.

 

Overall, I don't see this series getting more than one season, and I doubt that it will get a full season order.  But, it would be a shame if there was not an episode where Judd Hirsch's character has to 'borrow' a taxi in order to pick up Henry.

[retrograde]

Finally watched this. Never saw New Amsterdam, but definitely too Sherlock/Elementary-ish to have much original going for it that doesn't rhyme with Schmioan Schmuffud.

 

The chemistry between the two leads wasn't exactly sizzling, but it wasn't totally DOA either, so I'm willing give them the benefit of the doubt that it will improve. I do like the idea of the relationship between Abe and Henry, and I hope they actually explore it further, rather than just having him there for Henry to exposit to. 

 

I will give episode two a spin, mostly because Ioan Gruffud, but also because ABC is airing the first two eps in one week, so I assume they also think the pilot isn't great but the next ep is better. I sure hope so.

[shapeshifter]

...ABC is airing the first two eps in one week, so I assume they also think the pilot isn't great but the next ep is better. I sure hope so.

I liked the pilot well enough, but that's an interesting theory for ABC's scheduling choice, retrograde.

The ABC pilot for the comedy, The Neighbors, was horrible (IIRC, the script was at fault), and although nearly all the following episodes were wonderful, the show never really recovered in terms of audience or reviews.

Maybe there is significant retooling to the premise, plot, cast, etc. in the episode following the pilot of this show. If I don't like the changes, well, I watch too much TV anyway.

Edited September 15, 2014 by shapeshifter

[AV8n]

How is Henry Morgan not on the sex offender registry, as often as he seems to show up nekkid on the banks of the Hudson?  Too bad he doesn't always show up in the same place, or he could stash some clothes nearby.  Instead, it's just always "in water".

 

I could have sworn I heard Judd Hirsch's character say he was 65 years old.  That would mean he was born in 1949 - four years after the war was over.  Maybe he said 69 and my ears were failing me.  That must have been an awkward conversation with a young Abe the first time he had to call him up to bring a change of clothes.

 

I guess one of the big mysteries will be how did he come to be immortal.  My first thought was that it had something to do with his being willing to risk his life for the slave on the ship, so it wouldn't necessarily be a curse.  But the "#1 Fan" caller claims to be in the same condition, so it's not necessarily a reward either.  Also, are there others out there?  Because that's not really good for population control.

 

I was totally confused about the caller/poisoner, too.  I thought they were the same guy, but the caller wouldn't have threatened Henry with a gun because he'd know it wouldn't kill him.  But then how did the caller set up the train crash by poisoning the conductor?

 

They're trying to make Henry like Sherlock, but how did Not-Sherlock miss the fact that the video cameras would have recorded him getting on the train.  Did he not think the cops would find it interesting that their medical examiner was an unreported victim?  Thus began our first "No Shit, Not-Sherlock"(NSNS) moment of the series.

[Sakura12]

I've never seen the New Amsterdam show people keep talking about. So this was somewhat interesting. I don't think it will last too long though. Henry did remind me of Sherlock with his creepy deductions upon meeting everyone. I suppose I can give him more of a pass, because he's over 200 years old and wouldn't care what others think of him.

 

While a tad cheesy I liked the reveal that Abe's his adopted son. 

 

This is my problem with every vampire show I have ever seen.  I really think any show where we are supposed to believe someone is ageless should only last four years or less.  Or perhaps they could plan the story out, and then film in in four years even if they spread the episodes into five or six seasons.

 

Makes me wonder why no one ever hires an Asian actor to play an immortal. We can look the same age for about 10 years or so. I'm in my thirties and can finally pass for 21. 

[lucindabelle]

Nice, Sakura12. also as they say "black don't crack," Halle Berry looks amazing. I still got carded in my late 30s, but I'm pretty short and I think they were dark bars.

 

I will watch because I actually find the deduction thing sexy and Ioan is hot. I actually like the crime-of-the-week format, and am one of the few who thought "Copper" tanked when they went for a big arc. So, so long as they keep the focus on crimes with the Big Mystery in the background, I'm in.

[Whimsy]

Makes me wonder why no one ever hires an Asian actor to play an immortal. We can look the same age for about 10 years or so. I'm in my thirties and can finally pass for 21. 

 

I'm 41 and I still get carded.  ;)  A lot of people freak out when I introduce my 20 year old as my daughter.  It's humorous, but also annoying at times.  No, I was not 10 when I had my child, thank you very much. 

 

I like Ioan, too, so I'll stick around for a little longer.  Hopefully it'll pick up for me. 

[Aethera]

I don't love Ioan Gruffudd, so I was deeply meh on this to begin with. I gave it a watch though. I hated the voiceover, and was glad when it vanished for a chunk of the episode. I thought Alana DG was fine on L&O, but didn't like her at all here.  She's making weird faces.  Chemistry felt zero.

 

I always love Judd Hirsch, and I thought he was good, and I also enjoy Bones Squint, but overall, this pilot underwhelmed me.  I think I'll let a few eps air and then see how it seems to be going from notes here, maybe catch up if I'm disappointed in other fall shows.

 

I will say I enjoy me some Lorainne Toussaint, so that's exciting!

[Sakura12]

I'm 41 and I still get carded.  ;)  A lot of people freak out when I introduce my 20 year old as my daughter.  It's humorous, but also annoying at times.  No, I was not 10 when I had my child, thank you very much. 

 

I like Ioan, too, so I'll stick around for a little longer.  Hopefully it'll pick up for me. 

 

My mother has that problem as well. I suppose it is nice to look a lot longer than your real age at least when you're older, but not when you get carded at a Rated R movie and are like "I'm 25 not 15!" It's even worse at bars when they think I have a really well made fake ID.

 

The female Detective looked familiar, so thanks to those who pointed out she was Horatio's wife on CSI: Miami. I hated her on that show and she hasn't done much to impress on this one. But so far the other characters are somewhat interesting. I like Henry's co-worker, Abe and Henry. 

[lucindabelle]

When I was 21 and looked 14 without makeup people told me, some day you'll be glad.

Trust me, they were right.

[shapeshifter]

When I was 21 and looked 14 without makeup

Me too. But after menopause my real age caught up. So if you want to change jobs, do it before then.

Watching the Debra Messing show now. Forever much better.

[lucindabelle]

Is not far off shapeshifter, and I don't look 21 now... But not my age either. Runs in her family. Mom looks at least 15 years younger.

Of course, bones, teeth are the age they are. Aging sucks, essentially. It would be nice if we could just go on looking 35 until we die.

[bros402]

I'm probably going to stick with this show until cancellation just because there's nothing else new on TV this season worth watching. At least this will be bland fun at its worst (assuming the pilot is the most uneven episode of the original order)

[statsgirl]

If so many of us watched New Amsterdam, why was it cancelled?  That cancellation is the main reason I never give my heart to a TV show any more.

 

Um, back to Forever... it does feel like the bastard child of NA (but without the smarts or the explanation) and Elementary but I like the Hirsh and Gruffudd, and the guy who used to be one of the squints on Bones.  And if the detective is going to be his love interest, I like her a lot more than the one on NA who I kept wishing would turn out to be evil so we could get rid of her.

 

 

I watched every flipping episode of Century City. I only admit that in the anonymous part of the internet.

So did I.  It was pretty good in some respects.  And then IG's character turned into Wilson on House M.D.  (same producers)

[Trini]

Finally got to watch this through, and re-watch the New Amsterdam pilot; so, thar be comparisons ahead!

 

It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, although there was alot of 'I've seen this before, only done better'. I'm willing to give this a chance (2 more episodes) to see if it gets any better. They really need to tone down the Sherlock wannabe stuff -- there are enough of those on TV right now.

 

This and New Amsterdam have quite a few things in common (from the pilots, at least); obviously the immortal male lead solving crimes in NYC with his centuries of accumulated knowledge, with female sidekick. But also:
• Both have narration (but NA’s is only in the first ten minutes)
• A secret lab/workshop
• A European actor cast
• Both still use a pocketwatch
• A key scene takes place in the subway
• Both have a son that appears older, that functions as their confidant
• Both shows the reason for Immortality is iffy (but it's fantasy, so, whatevs), but involves the lead getting killed trying to protect someone else.
• Also both pilots manage to get the lead naked, or wet and naked more than once. Heh.

 

But there a lot of differences, though. They did make some effort to differentiate it from similar shows.
In NA, he knows how he became immortal and (mostly) knows what he has to do to die. In Forever, all that is a mystery; which I think is an good way to keep interest. In NA, there’s a romantic drama subplot that a big theme; his past relationships are very relevant. In Forever, he mentions that others found out his secret and he got in trouble; in NA, it seems only his lovers and some of his children know the secret.

 

NA had more racial diversity; and the lead had a female partner as well as a love interest. However, this show it looks like the female partner is going to have a more substantial role.

 

For me the most significant difference between the two is the lead characters. I liked John Amsterdam way more than Henry Morgan. John was a lot more charming, and actually seems to care about life and people. He seemed to be more careful about his immortality; even though he couldn’t die, he could still be scarred by injuries. In contrast, Henry died four times in the pilot (twice on purpose!) — more times than John did on his short-lived show. You’d think he’d be more careful seeing as how he always wakes up in another location. And he’s just more obnoxious and annoying with his knowledge.

 

The show has potential and I hope it gets better. However, I thought the chemistry between the two leads was lukewarm, so I doubt it has any staying power.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Trini

[bros402]

Finally got to watch this through, and re-watch the New Amsterdam pilot; so, thar be comparisons ahead!

 

It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, although there was alot of 'I've seen this before, only done better'. I'm willing to give this a chance (2 more episodes) to see if it gets any better. They really need to tone down the Sherlock wannabe stuff -- there are enough of those on TV right now.

 

This and New Amsterdam have quite a few things in common (from the pilots, at least); obviously the immortal male lead solving crimes in NYC with his centuries of accumulated knowledge, with female sidekick. But also:

• Both have narration (but NA’s is only in the first ten minutes)

• A secret lab/workshop

• A European actor cast

• Both still use a pocketwatch

• A key scene takes place in the subway

• Both have a son that appears older, that functions as their confidant

• Both shows the reason for Immortality is iffy (but it's fantasy, so, whatevs), but involves the lead getting killed trying to protect someone else.

• Also both pilots manage to get the lead naked, or wet and naked more than once. Heh.

 

But there a lot of differences, though. They did make some effort to differentiate it from similar shows.

In NA, he knows how he became immortal and (mostly) knows what he has to do to die. In Forever, all that is a mystery; which I think is an good way to keep interest. In NA, there’s a romantic drama subplot that a big theme; his past relationships are very relevant. In Forever, he mentions that others found out his secret and he got in trouble; in NA, it seems only his lovers and some of his children know the secret.

 

NA had more racial diversity; and the lead had a female partner as well as a love interest. However, this show it looks like the female partner is going to have a more substantial role.

 

For me the most significant difference between the two is the lead characters. I liked John Amsterdam way more than Henry Morgan. John was a lot more charming, and actually seems to care about life and people. He seemed to be more careful about his immortality; even though he couldn’t die, he could still be scarred by injuries. In contrast, Henry died four times in the pilot (twice on purpose!) — more times than John did on his short-lived show. You’d think he’d be more careful seeing as how he always wakes up in another location. And he’s just more obnoxious and annoying with his knowledge.

 

The show has potential and I hope it gets better. However, I thought the chemistry between the two leads was lukewarm, so I doubt it has any staying power.

 

Henry Morgan seems like a character who is... bored with life. Despite his cheery narration at the end of the Pilot about hope, he seems to lust after death, which is a deep contrast with the main character of New Amsterdam, who was much more cautious, as you pointed out.

[Chas411]

I have to say I enjoyed it. I've nothing to compare it too though. I think Gruffud is charming enough to carry the show and so far I like the cast.

 

Does anyone know what the song was that played at the end of the episode?

[WendyCR72]

The show has potential and I hope it gets better. However, I thought the chemistry between the two leads was lukewarm, so I doubt it has any staying power.

 

Hey, it worked for Castle. (Sorry, I just have never thought that Nathan Fillion and Stana Katic have anything in the way of romantic chemistry, but it's going into Season 7, so...)

 

I enjoyed this. It's fluff with an immortal angle. (This coming from someone who loved another show about an immortal with Forever in its title (Forever Knight in the '90s with vampire Nick Knight...anyone else remember that?)) And hey, Ioan Gruffudd is very very nice eye candy, if nothing else. And it was nice to see Judd Hirsch again. I liked Alana De La Garza on Law & Order, but I'm not sure I buy her as a borderline alcoholic cop with the weight of loss on her shoulders, but it's early yet. So I'll withhold judgment for now.

 

But is it me, or (if there are any Bones watchers or former watchers here) does Joel David Moore just play Fisher here in an ME setting instead of at the Jeffersonian Lab? I guess if it works, why change it?

 

Other than that, this will never win awards, but there's nothing wrong with fluff TV. Time will tell if it'll be good fluff or forgotten fluff. But I'll (literally) tune in tomorrow to find out...