Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets

[GeeGolly]

Gothard likely has a desk drawer filled with these and plays God's Army. 🤣🤣

[Minivanessa]

I've watched some YT videos that have been created in the wake of SHP, featuring some ex-IBLP folks. I thought they added something to the subject, at least for me. 

Davey Jackson, who describes himself as a stand-up comic living in Texas, is a guy whose parents got into IBLP when he was growing up. He was homeschooled, and sent to a IBLP training facility for the egregious sin of getting interested in a girl when he was a teenager. He's released three videos about IBLP. In all of them he and a guy friend who also was in IBLP as a kid/young adult, talk about their experiences (both are ex-IBLP). In the third one they are joined by a young woman who's ex-IBLP who talks about her experience. I was really struck in all the videos by Davey's saying that as bad as it was for boys, IBLP was a helluva lot worse for girls and women. Here's a link to the first video: 

Another YT channel with content about SHP: "Cults to Consciousness." There are two videos so far, each featuring a woman who left IBLP. One of them is Emily Elizabeth Anderson, who was in SHP, the other one features a very interesting articulate woman who wasn't in SHP. Here's a link to the one with Emily:

Yes, I def sank more time than I probably should have, going down the rabbit hole of this subject. I'm not sure why, as it's not particularly relevant to my own life. OTOH all this content has sparked renewed gratitude that I wasn't reared in an abusive authoritarian home. Deep sigh of thanks to my late parents.

 

[LilyD]

On 6/25/2023 at 9:26 PM, Salacious Kitty said:

Gothard is clueless. He will never acknowledge the harm he has wrought.

Is he? I think he knows exactly what he’s doing. And worst of all, he thinks he is absolutely right, so why acknowledge any harm? In his mind, there is no harm done.

I was a few seasons into “the handmaid’s tale”; I’ve stopped watching after seeing SHP as it has become way too uncomfortable for me to watch. A world ruled by Gothard would probably come very close to the world we see in a Handmaid’s tale. No thank you!

Edited June 30, 2023 by LilyD
edited a sentence

[dariafan]

So if the ilbp teachings were accurate, then which parent of Josh put the hole in their umbrella of authority ???  Also my weekly statement of I hate him boob.  

[Quilt Fairy]

6 hours ago, LilyD said:

I was a few seasons into “the handmaid’s tale”; I’ve stopped watching after seeing SHP as it has become way too uncomfortable for me to watch.

The last couple of seasons have been crap, anyway. 

[kaleidoscope]

Jeeves, thank you so much for posting these links.  I watched Davey Jackson's entire (so far) four part series.  He's diving deep into the IBLP.  It's horrifying.  I'm learning so much.

[Minivanessa]

21 minutes ago, kaleidoscope said:

Jeeves, thank you so much for posting these links.  I watched Davey Jackson's entire (so far) four part series.  He's diving deep into the IBLP.  It's horrifying.  I'm learning so much.

You're welcome. Just today he posted a 25 minute video of an interview with Dr. John Cornish, who started the website Recovering Grace. Among other things, they discuss the overlap between IBLP/ATI doctrines and rules, and those of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptists.

ETA: This doesn't relate to Davey Jackson's videos, but I've been meaning to say this here. Jenn of Fundie Fridays participated in the "aftershow" to SHP, link posted above. I've never disliked her but hadn't really warmed to her, until I watched her on that. She's rather brusque in her manner. She was asked about her background re religion. She wasn't raised in a religious family and isn't religious now. But many of her friends from school and beyond, are involved in religion and she found the subject interesting. Then she said, as to her involvement with providing the 411 on fundamentalists - "I can take it." She explained that she's not religious and hasn't been harmed by these extreme rules or abused by those holding power via religion. So she can emotionally handle the backlash and nonsense from these exposes, on behalf of victims who are generally not so impervious. Then, on her own YT channel, she posted a followup video after SHP was released. And at the end she broke down and cried about all those who were abused and victimized by Gothard. Tough old Jenn - crying. That got to me, I admit. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Jeeves

[dariafan]

How did Gotherd know Emily posted to the recovering grace website ???

[BetyBee]

I just finished watching the SHP after show, with Amy & Deanna interviewed at the end. I never noticed it before, but Jana looks so much like Deanna! I wonder how JimBob feels about that! Anyway, it was very good, as were the links @Jeeves provided. I've been down quite a rabbit hole the past couple of days!

[ShowsILoveToHate]

Will someone please tell me where I can view the after show? Thanks! 

[Salacious Kitty]

17 minutes ago, ShowsILoveToHate said:

Will someone please tell me where I can view the after show? Thanks! 

@Jeeves linked it uptheead. 

[Bastet]

I knew the basics about the Quiverfull nutters and even a little about this particular cult within that movement when the Duggars' show premiered, so I was appalled they were being given a platform to preach this misogyny on basic cable.  (And my knowledge wasn't from any personal experience, but from reading about it, so it's not as if it was unknown in the mainstream.)  I was hoping this documentary would be more of an indictment of Discovery unleashing the beast, but at least they did address it, and how they prettied it up.

I refused to watch the show on principle, so, although I'm sure I came across clips here and there over the years, this sustained exposure to Michelle's voice was quite a jarring experience.  I laughed so hard when the cousin had to tell her husband to stop it because he was gearing up to go off about that voice.  The only thing worse is that pose where she's touching him and staring at him the whole time he talks instead of engaging with the other parties to the conversation.  Their similarly wacky former friends were the same way a lot, although not quite as bad.

I cannot believe the specifics of the disciplining techniques -- that blanket training shit?!  OMG!  Beating infants.  Not that beating older children is any better, but holy shit.  An older child can at least deserve a non-abusive form of punishment for willful disobedience (on an issue that actually matters).  A baby who can barely roll over, never mind reason, cannot even do something to create that kind of situation, so to physically harm them for the "crime" of reaching for something the parent deliberately tempted them with?!  I am appalled.

I'm glad this gave some victims of the cult a chance to say what's really going on in these households beyond the creepy enough on its own version that was shown on TV (which, again, brings me back to the network's culpability; even if what the cameras captured had been "only" the worst of what anyone knew was going on [which I don't believe for a minute], that in and of itself was never something to promote, let alone whitewash as this quirky, oversized family with terrible fashion sense who just really loved their bible).

I appreciated the woman who got her and her kids in the nick of time saying it's incredibly difficult and everyone wondering why the molester's wife doesn't bounce needs to understand the context.  I'm as guilty as the next person of rolling my eyes at these women and saying "You're an idiot", but my next act is to take a step back and remember they've been brainwashed their entire lives, and probably had the ability to resist literally beaten out of them.  They're victims, and while I hate that they turn around and continue the cycle with their own kids, I'm exponentially more disgusted by the men who subjugate and abuse in the name of their god.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Bastet

[EtheltoTillie]

@Bastet I'm the opposite of you in that I will watch and read anything I can find on any cult because I am against religion of any kind.  My family believed this and we had no religous practice, but we lost cousins to a cult in the 60s, so I always struggle to understand the brainwashing and why it happens.  All the cults use the same techniques.  So I always watched the Duggar shit show, and I watch all the Scientology documentaries and shows (i.e., with Leah Remini) and read and watch about ex-Mormons and ex-Hasids, to name a few.  I was always appalled that the Duggars were given a platform to whitewash their egregious beliefs, and I'm glad they are getting exposed. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[dariafan]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

@Bastet I'm the opposite of you in that I will watch and read anything I can find on any cult because I am against religion of any kind.  My family believed this and we had no religous practice, but we lost cousins to a cult in the 60s, so I always struggle to understand the brainwashing and why it happens.  All the cults use the same techniques.  So I always watched the Duggar shit show, and I watch all the Scientology documentaries and shows (i.e., with Leah Remini) and read and watch about ex-Mormons, to name a couple.  I was always appalled that the Duggars were given a platform to whitewash their egregious beliefs, and I'm glad they are getting exposed. 

Can we be besties ???

[floridamom]

The fact that the Duggars and Bates were allowed to whitewash their belief and practices is appalling to me. If they did that knowingly on TV, these people knew that there was something "wrong" with how they live. They lied by ommission IMO.

[Wiendish Fitch]

As a long, long, long time hater and critic of the Duggars, I watched this docu-series (*mumble mumble*) times. Let me be crystal clear: I never liked JimBob, Michelle, and their inappropriately massive brood of meal tickets kids. There wasn't a period where I found them cute and interesting, then disillusionment set in; no, I found them off-putting and creepy from the get-go. Even before we found out about that POS Josh, I hated the iron-fisted structure and isolation of the kids' lives, the enforced modesty and servitude of the girls, the creepy lack of individuality (the sight of them dully practicing their violins is weirdly depressing) it's just gross and hateful all around. 

Because I have too many thoughts, I will simply list them at random.

JimBob is a loathsome piece of work, but I have gotten Lady Macbeth vibes from Michelle since day one. I believe she's the real power behind the throne, but she hides behind a meek, sickly sweet facade. My skin crawled when she described "blanket time" in that saccharine tone of voice. I'll take being yelled at to being spoken to in that cloying, hyper girlish tone. I imagine that's the voice a serial killer uses before they hack you up.

 

That awful song the Duggar kids were forced to sing? "Why should I not be put in Hell/To suffer for all time?"? Why not? Oh, I dunno, because you're kids?!?!?!*

 

The Duggars's idea of Christian "courtship" is weird and horrible to me. The idea of my parents tagging along on my dates sounds like all cringe, no comedy. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would think it's romantic to save your first kiss for the wedding. Saving sex for marriage, though I no longer agree with it, I can at least understand, but a kiss? Maybe it's just because I'm a wanton, godless heathen, but I think physical compatibility is extremely important in marriage, and you can learn a lot about yourself and your partner from a kiss. Imagine finding out on your wedding day that your new spouse is a crap kisser, an awkward hugger, to say nothing how they are in bed? I know these people are prudes**, but come the fuck on! 

The major stuff enraged me, obviously, but the smaller stuff bothered me, too. Imagine your church leader telling you how to wear your hair (did anyone else see no problem with the hairstyles pictured in the "wisdom booklets"?). The slut-shaming picture activity made my roll my eyes, because if they think those outfits are provocative, they clearly haven't been to a grocery store in a major city lately. They'd have a conniption fit.

I wanted to puke in my mouth when that loser at the convention said "JimBob is the man!". I am convinced that's the number one reason the Duggars had so many kids: JimBob just wants to show the world how well his dick works. Disgusting. 

I regret no longer believing in Hell, because I love the idea of Evil Santa and Olive Oyl- I mean, Michael and Debi Pearl spending eternity on a blanket trying to reach something they want, only to be smacked away. I realize the debate about spanking kids will continue on until the end of time, and I don't feel qualified to contribute. I'm not a child psychologist or even a mom, but I do feel qualified to say this: If you hit a baby- not a child, not a teenager, but a baby-you are not a good person. One last time, if you hit a baby, you. Are. Not. A. Good. Person.

When JimBob blamed Josh's sentence on "cancel culture", was I the only one who blurted out "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!"?

Tia's story was heartbreaking. Seeing her as a beautiful, innocent young bride (I agree with the poster she looked like Ariel), but then learning she married a monster and was trapped with him for so many years was gut-wrenching. 

Ooof, too many heavy subjects, I'll leave you with a more light-hearted note: the clip of the grandparents having a stony, deadpan, non-reaction to the umpteenth Duggar kid? Comedy gold. Loved it. 

*Obvious exceptions notwithstanding.

**Not all of them, we horribly find. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Wiendish Fitch

[Minivanessa]

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

As a long, long, long time hater and critic of the Duggars, I watched this docu-series (*mumble mumble*) times. Let me be crystal clear: I never liked JimBob, Michelle, and their inappropriately massive brood of meal tickets kids. There wasn't a period where I found them cute and interesting, then disillusionment set in; no, I found them off-putting and creepy from the get-go. Even before we found out about that POS Josh, I hated the iron-fisted structure and isolation of the kids' lives, the enforced modesty and servitude of the girls, the creepy lack of individuality (the sight of them dully practicing their violins is weirdly depressing) it's just gross and hateful all around. 

Because I have too many thoughts, I will simply list them at random.  *  *  *

THANK YOU for that - all of it! (Although I cut the quote down above, to save on scrolling for folks.) 

I also never felt anything good about the Duggars, never found them charming or cute or just neutrally interesting. Nope. Dislike and distrust from the get-go. I originally hail from that general part of the country, a state next to Arkansas. Bible belt. Baptists. Creationists. People being loudly "Christian;" others who don't shout about it and actually do good things for people all the time without blowing their horns (thank dog my large extended family is pretty much all in that latter group). I've never met JB or Michelle themselves but I've met people who are like that. I moved away from that area as a young adult, but by then I'd seen enough to have an idea what I was looking at with the Duggars. It was not entertaining to me.

I've participated in discussion forums about their TV shows for years, although I have trouble even hate-watching them for more than very short spells. I don't think I've ever watched straight through an episode. 

Only recently did I connect the dots (duh) to realize that watching the behavior, and especially the parents' THs, on the show created cognitive dissonance for me, which is why it was uncomfortable and distasteful when I tried to hate-watch. My subconscious (and often conscious) mind was yelling back at the TV: this is BS, these are lies, this is icky, but it's being presented as cute and interesting and all wrapped up in a "Gosh, aren't they sweet and special??!" package with a bow on top. 

I have also watched SHP more times than I will admit (assuming I can actually count them accurately). I pick up a new detail or two each time. The last time through I emerged with a more vivid loathing for Michelle. Loved your "Lady Macbeth" comment! And what you said about her voice - amen! It was so horrible to hear her talking about "training" her kids to obey in that voice.

I also appreciated that the female voiceover, reading the material from the Wisdom Booklets and one of the Duggars' books, sounded a lot like Michelle. Heh.

Interesting what Jim Holt reported from a conversation he had with the Duggar parents, back when Josh's molestations had been discovered (and covered up) by the Duggars. He or JB (I think JB) used the word "molested" to describe what Josh had done to the little girls. And Michelle snapped, "Don't you EVER use that word!" Wow. Yep. There's steel under that treacly presentation.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Jeeves
"forms" is not the same as "forums"

[xwordfanatik]

That woman that said she spanked her kid ALL DAY to "break their will" was beyond horrible.  I hate to wonder how that child (or any child raised in that cult) turned out.  

I've read all the posts here, and watched the whole wretched mess at least 3 times.  Each time brought out more appalling behavior by these abusive assholes.

[GeeGolly]

As I've said before, I too watched with open eyes from the beginning. IMO, reality TV featuring families is in and of itself exploitative - all of them. I think the show about Kardashians is far more harmful (for the viewer) than the shows featuring the Duggars and Bates.

If anyone is re-watching any of the 19 Kids or Counting On shows, be on the look out for, what I'll call producer Easter eggs. They often subtlety emphasized little sprinkles of 'yes, they are wackadoodles' moments. Usually in the form of 1 - 2 -3 camera work. For instance, one time Michelle was talking with Cathy Dillard about raising kids. Cathy says, "well I used the same book you did...". Flash to Michelle's deer in the headlights face, she was undoubtedly thinking, oh no, don't bring up the Pearls. Then Cathy finishes her sentence and says, "the Bible". Flash back to Michelle, picking back up her Fundy Michelle-ness as quick as a big sigh.

[Salacious Kitty]

Cathy Dillard Byrum called the bible "an owner's manual." 

While not IBLP, she's pretty vile. 

[kaleidoscope]

Has Amazon removed the free (with ads) opportunity to watch the first three episodes of SHP?  I've been going around in circles searching for it.  I was able to watch it earlier, but now cannot find it.

[Minivanessa]

So, I'm emotionally 12 years old. But I have to say this.

I'm an American, and also an Anglophile. 

The frequent use of the word "pants" in this documentary cracks me up. "Women must not wear pants." "My parents wouldn't let us wear pants." "No pants!"

For Americans and I think also Canadians, "pants" means trousers, slacks, jeans - IOW the garment that covers the body from waist to (more or less) ankle, with a separate part for each leg. 

But in British usage, "pants" are undergarments. Panties. That helmet-haired woman in the old IBLP conference clip shown in Ep 4, earnestly going on and on about how "my husband told me he didn't want me to wear pants" inevitably cracks me up. Look lady, we don't need to know about your private sexy stuff with your spouse.  🤣   I can't help it; every time I see that I have to listen through the filter of British English usage. 

I'll show myself out. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Jeeves
Spelling, it's a thing

[Wiendish Fitch]

On 7/15/2023 at 7:31 PM, Jeeves said:

So, I'm emotionally 12 years old. But I have to say this.

I'm an American, and also an Anglophile. 

The frequent use of the word "pants" in this documentary cracks me up. "Women must not wear pants." "My parents wouldn't let us wear pants." "No pants!"

For Americans and I think also Canadians, "pants" means trousers, slacks, jeans - IOW the garment that covers the body from waist to (more or less) ankle, with a separate part for each leg. 

But in British usage, "pants" are undergarments. Panties. That helmet-haired woman in the old IBLP conference clip shown in Ep 4, earnestly going on and on about how "my husband told me he didn't want me to wear pants" inevitably cracks me up. Look lady, we don't need to know about your private sexy stuff with your spouse.  🤣   I can't help it; every time I see that I have to listen through the filter of British English usage. 

I'll show myself out. 

Hey, at least you're emotionally... something. That's more than I can say for most of the Duggars.

You know, when I was a kid, I liked the song "This is My Country". I found it stirring and patriotic. Then I saw the clip in the docu-series with Josh singing it, and ye gods, I had the worst "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" from Cabaret vibes. Now I hope to never hear it again.

It doesn't help that Josh sounded like Gerard Butler trying to win a burping contest.  

Edited July 31, 2023 by Wiendish Fitch

[xwordfanatik]

Now the IBLP "supporters" are supposedly going to make a rebuttal film called Shiny Slander.  I don't know how those heinous (IMO) beliefs of theirs can be justifiable, or how they are going to make Bill Gothard into some kind of saint!

Of course, they want donations.  Sure, sign me right up!  /s

🙄

[kaleidoscope]

Shiny Happy People led me to Cults to Consciousness, and John Dehlin with Mormon Stories.  Both are so powerful.

[dariafan]

1 hour ago, kaleidoscope said:

Shiny Happy People led me to Cults to Consciousness, and John Dehlin with Mormon Stories.  Both are so powerful.

I love listening to Mormon stories.  Especially when John Larsen is on 

[smittykins]

Davey Jackson is a comedian who grew up in the IBLP, and his YouTube channel has several videos referencing SHP and his experiences in their training centers.

[EtheltoTillie]

John Dehlin is really worth watching. He’s such an understanding person. He has a mission to expose bad stuff but he is kind to those struggling inside the cult. 

[Kel Varnsen]

I am two episodes in and so far it is pretty interesting. I knew most of the actual horrors from listening to the Behind the Bastards podcast on the Duggars and IBLP but getting actual first hand accounts from people is still pretty shocking.

On 7/12/2023 at 4:20 PM, floridamom said:

The fact that the Duggars and Bates were allowed to whitewash their belief and practices is appalling to me. If they did that knowingly on TV, these people knew that there was something "wrong" with how they live. They lied by ommission IMO.

What I find interesting is that it is whitewashing for the general public and for people in their church. Because TV makes Jim Bob look like a big success (nice house, nice clothes) which in turn makes it look like having double digit number kids not so bad. Which is a good way to promote that lifestyle among people who would follow them. Even though in reality kids are expensive, and most people don't have a reality show paying them. I remember from the podcast I mentioned that there are a lot of IBLP followers that are literally dirt poor.

On 6/29/2023 at 5:32 PM, LilyD said:

I was a few seasons into “the handmaid’s tale”; I’ve stopped watching after seeing SHP as it has become way too uncomfortable for me to watch. A world ruled by Gothard would probably come very close to the world we see in a Handmaid’s tale. No thank you!

At the very least it is the same brand of hypocrisy. Because if the goal was for families to have a bunch of kids, the wedding night sex manual wouldn't just be one position with a how to for handjobs. It would describe something that both partners would be into so that both would want to do it more often.

[Kel Varnsen]

Finished the last one today and thought it was pretty good although I thought it could have easily been one or two more episodes. 

Like they could have easily spent more time on that messed up contract Jill signed. Because even with my basic understanding of contract law it doesn't make sense. Because I thought for a contract to be enforceable each side had to get something. If she agreed to do work without getting anything in return how is that a binding contract? Not to mention if she signed it before she was married how would it cover her unborn kids. Like could she say that she will appear on the show but TLC is not allowed to film her kids? Because that would end the show pretty fast. Of course if IBLP people were allowed to watch TV she may have seen 30 Rock and know that the easy way to get around a reality show contract is to say everything on camera as a song to the tune of Uptown Girl, so they can't use it. Or wear a NY Rangers goalie mask while the cameras are around.

They also could have dug more into the shitty education the home school people got, and how it contributes to the abuse. One thing that stood out from Behind the Bastards is that if girls aren't getting any kind of sex ed do they really understand if they are being abused?

Also speaking of education I really want to know how that Joshua Generation got a Harvard Law degree and worked for a supreme court judge. When they spent all that time showing how terrible the fundamentalist home school education is.

Lastly I am really curious if Jim Bob ran for state Senate to hopefully funnel donations into his son/family's legal defense. Since I have heard stories of other politicians who have had legal trouble (who I won't name) doing the exact same thing.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Kel Varnsen

[andromeda331]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:54 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

They also could have dug more into the shitty education the home school people got, and how it contributes to the abuse. One thing that stood out from Behind the Bastards is that if girls aren't getting any kind of sex ed do they really understand if they are being abused?

I think they do but they are also educated by the church and wisdom booklets how it's their fault if they do. They are educated on how no to tempt boys by how they dress, act, and almost anything can tempt them. If a boy is tempted it's the girl's fault. Nothing is ever the fault of the boy.  

[Wiendish Fitch]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:54 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

Also speaking of education I really want to know how that Joshua Generation got a Harvard Law degree and worked for a supreme court judge. When they spent all that time showing how terrible the fundamentalist home school education is.

I shudder to think how anyone is able to get a Harvard Law degree when they grew up being taught that humans and dinosaurs coexisted and that hands are "made up of nonliving atoms" (WHAT?!?!?!)

I'm the biggest science dunce in existence, but even I found that appalling. I really, really hope the Joshua Generation's reach isn't that great, because if it is, we are well and truly screwed. 

[Kel Varnsen]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I think they do but they are also educated by the church and wisdom booklets how it's their fault if they do. They are educated on how no to tempt boys by how they dress, act, and almost anything can tempt them. If a boy is tempted it's the girl's fault. Nothing is ever the fault of the boy.  

I can see it being a bit of both. Like they aren't given any education on consent or inappropriate touching or anything like that. And then teaching about temptation probably goes down something like that scene from the Barbie movie:

Teacher: You can't wear revealing clothing because it might tempt boys and men.

Kid: tempt them to do what?

T: we can't tell you, you will find out on your wedding night. Before then you will just have to figure it out.

On top of that you have a system where any male with any kind of authority is literally the boss of them and it becomes a huge awful mess.

[Minivanessa]

11 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I shudder to think how anyone is able to get a Harvard Law degree when they grew up being taught that humans and dinosaurs coexisted and that hands are "made up of nonliving atoms" (WHAT?!?!?!)

I'm the biggest science dunce in existence, but even I found that appalling. I really, really hope the Joshua Generation's reach isn't that great, because if it is, we are well and truly screwed. 

IBLP had a big membership, but there were, and are, lots of fundamental evangelical Christian homeschoolers who were not in IBLP and didn't use the IBLP materials. And some who, if they were, didn't limit their homeschool curriculum to the Wisdom Booklets. IOW, IBLP is part of that picture, but by no means the whole picture. 

I'm no expert, but as I understand it, there are homeschooling parents whose kids participate in sports leagues, and there are some homeschool coop efforts. I don't live in a particularly conservative state, and I've noticed that a local nonprofit that operates a butterfly pavilion hosts occasional "homeschool days" events where the kids can learn about insects first hand. I suppose there are many other such activities out there that homeschool parents can get their kids into.

I doubt that a kid kept isolated from the wider world 24/7/365, and taught only out of the nutso Wisdom Booklets, would ever get a bachelor's degree, much less be admitted to Harvard Law. 

[Salacious Kitty]

The Harrises were big homeschooling proponents from way back. They did NOT use Wisdom Booklets. Alex Harris was featured to bring attention to the actions of the Joshua Generation. However, q doubt very few ATI students wsde/are able to reach positions of power. Josh Duggar got lucky when he landed that job at the FRC. But he was mainly a figurehead, woefully unprepared for the actual work. Harris (and his twin) attended Patrick Henry College, a huge feeder school for conservative homeschoolers before attending Harvard Law. He had co-written a couple books and headed a nationwide movement for teens before setting foot at Harvard. Far more accomplished than the typical IBLP kid.

[Natalie68]

Kel Varnsen:  Lastly I am really curious if Jim Bob ran for state Senate to hopefully funnel donations into his son/family's legal defense. Since I have heard stories of other politicians who have had legal trouble (who I won't name) doing the exact same thing.

Now I am too!  Hadn't thought about it til now.  Jim Bob had to know he had zero chance of winning.  Hmmmmm....

[andromeda331]

On 4/12/2024 at 2:49 PM, Natalie68 said:

Kel Varnsen:  Lastly I am really curious if Jim Bob ran for state Senate to hopefully funnel donations into his son/family's legal defense. Since I have heard stories of other politicians who have had legal trouble (who I won't name) doing the exact same thing.

Now I am too!  Hadn't thought about it til now.  Jim Bob had to know he had zero chance of winning.  Hmmmmm....

I'm not so sure he did. He through he was in control of Josh's trial and that they'd win. Someone that delusional probably did think he was going to win.

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm not so sure he did. He through he was in control of Josh's trial and that they'd win. Someone that delusional probably did think he was going to win.

But even if he thought he was going to win they would still need money right? They would still have legal bills to pay.

Edited April 14 by Kel Varnsen

[Absolom]

Rumor has it season 2 is being filmed:

https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2024/05/17/season-2-of-shiny-happy-people-docuseries-exposing-duggar-family-iblp-religion-reportedly-in-production/

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

Rumor has it season 2 is being filmed:

https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2024/05/17/season-2-of-shiny-happy-people-docuseries-exposing-duggar-family-iblp-religion-reportedly-in-production/

That's great news!

[Chalby]

On 6/16/2023 at 7:23 AM, Starry-Eyed said:

 I think this is it, exactly.

I too find it idiotic that having the same hairstyle as Jesus wasn't considered Christian enough.

I find it crazy for any religion to imply they know exactly what Jesus looked like, or wore. I remember in Bible class seeing a picture of a very 'white'-looking, slender, trimmed beard/moustache and long hair man. He looked to be 30 as well. Given this was the first image I saw of "Jesus" I assumed it was real. Thankfully, I've learned that not everything is as it appears...

[Chalby]

On 6/12/2023 at 12:22 PM, Salacious Kitty said:

I forget who said it, maybe Jen from Fundie Fridays, but they said they weren't getting paid to ensure fairness. I heard this before seeing the final product, which had an obvious agenda. 

That's why I think Jill could have been paid. 

It wouldn't be framed as a paycheque, but perhaps Derrick's former ministry received an influx of donations?

[Chalby]

On 6/8/2023 at 11:21 AM, Avaleigh said:

Regarding Gothard--what's the deal with this asshole not being married and having a bunch of kids? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that no woman had the misfortune to have to be this jerk's wife, it just strikes me as odd that people are willing to listen to him about marriage and parenting without him ever actually experiencing either. Considering marriage and lots of kids is a huge part of the IBLP brand and lifestyle, it's weird that the king of the organization isn't expected to walk the walk. How does he justify it? Why doesn't he want these "blessings"?

I feel like the Duggars are just the tip of the iceberg here. I'm sure that there are horror stories in a lot of these IBLP families. 

If they do a second season, I'd like to hear more survivor stories. I'm glad that there are people who have been able step away from the cult and come to terms with how harmful it is. 

I think another take away for me was the kids spending time doing useless stuff like the exercise where they have to look at women's fashion and spot what makes each garment slutty. And of course they only have to do this with women's clothing. These people would rather have their kids do that than have them be properly educated. SMH.

I also appreciated the series mentioning how a lot of this homeschooling started as a response to schools being desegregated. So these people would rather their children receive a subpar education than have them attend schools with a diverse mix of people? Wow. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it's still hard to hear.

I have come to the conclusion that the more fundamental a family's Christian beliefs, the more likely it will meld into a male-centric cocoon of women accepting the blame for any issues a man encounters. If her brother, son or hubby/Dad molests someone, it's because of the woman's ungodly influence or behaviour. If you are assaulted, you clearly did something, as a woman, to incur such aggression. Your son did something to another? You are responsible to have that story go away, or have your son betrothed. In this cult, the men are leaders and must be obeyed, however if they stumble into 'sinning' that is on the women for not keeping his home life serene. No women is going to openly discuss ANY abuse as that just opens the door to her begging forgiveness for being so ungodly around the men.

[Chalby]

On 6/5/2023 at 9:17 AM, GeeGolly said:

Did Deanna call DCF to report the beatings of her nieces and nephews?

 

Can you imagine the Fundy backlash if Deanna did call DCF? I guarantee, she would have ended up losing her own children, or being continually harassed by the church and social workers. Once a member discloses Fundy family secrets & dynamics, you will find them the target of every other family within the cult.

Suddenly, former church mates are recalling Deanna's own  "inappropriate interactions" with small children.(A blatant lie, but Fundies have never been above lying to make their point). Regardless of any and all proof Deanna could disclose, it would end badly for her.

I've seen families buckle from the oppressive weight of Fundy shame and punishment (as demonstrated by the male leaders). Deanna would experience a complete backlash because she shared abuse secrets and sought help.

Along with shunning and slandering Deanna, she would be dismissed as an insignificant woman telling lies. Mind you, the Fundies would gladly welcome back her children (so long as they continue to shun her).

Edited July 2 by Chalby

[Chalby]

On 6/12/2023 at 12:19 PM, quarks said:

I doubt it. From Amazon's point of view, the entire point of a limited-run docuseries like this is that, with the exception of the directors/producers/crew, nobody gets paid. 

I do not believe Derrick would support Jill in this documentary if she was NOT getting paid. Maybe not an actual set paycheque, but surely they'd demand a percentage of the viewing profits.

[Zella]

25 minutes ago, Chalby said:

Can you imagine the Fundy backlash if Deanna did call DCF? I guarantee, she would have ended up losing her own children, or being continually harassed by the church and social workers. Once a member discloses Fundy family secrets & dynamics, you will find them the target of every other family within the cult.

Suddenly, former church mates are recalling Deanna's own  "inappropriate interactions" with small children.(A blatant lie, but Fundies have never been above lying to make their point). Regardless of any and all proof Deanna could disclose, it would end badly for her.

I've seen families buckle from the oppressive weight of Fundy shame and punishment (as demonstrated by the male leaders). Deanna would experience a complete backlash because she shared abuse secrets and sought help.

Along with shunning and slandering Deanna, she would be dismissed as an insignificant woman telling lies. Mind you, the Fundies would gladly welcome back her children (so long as they continue to shun her). 

 .

n, as well as when a mother or victim speaks out.

By all accounts, Deanna was never part of Gothardism or their church and has long had a strained relationship with her brother. 

[quarks]

23 hours ago, Chalby said:

I do not believe Derrick would support Jill in this documentary if she was NOT getting paid. Maybe not an actual set paycheque, but surely they'd demand a percentage of the viewing profits.

He could have asked, sure. 

But that's just not how the industry works, much less how Amazon Studios contracts or documentaries work. In the highly unlikely event that they did receive financial compensation for this, it would have been in the form of a one-time filming fee.

Or, shall we say, more indirect compensation.

Because it's kinda hard for me not to notice that the timing suggests that they agreed to be filmed for this at more or less the same time that they would have been shopping Counting the Cost to various publishers. Either Jill was already planning to write a book, and they figured - correctly - that being able to say, "Oh, and I'm going to be appearing in this Amazon documentary" would help sell it, or, someone involved with the documentary said, "Well, we won't pay you for this, but, we can put you in touch with a literary agent, who can in turn get you in touch with a ghostwriter and a publisher, who will all be a lot more interested in you if you are a subject of an Amazon documentary."

Bonus: they got Jill's story out, on a platform her parents couldn't control.