S22.E22: Open Wounds

[WendyCR72]

Season finale! Airing May 18, 2023:

Quote

A senator is gunned down at his daughter's wedding. McCoy pushes for a severe sentence and squares up against a formidable DA -- his own daughter. Price aims to stay neutral but can't help but empathize with the defendant over a shared trauma.

 

[Xeliou66]

I’m really curious about this episode - I hope they pull off the stuff with McCoy’s daughter well and it doesn’t get too soapy. It should be nice to have a Jack heavy episode to end the season - he’s been used well this year, he doesn’t get as much screen time as he used to obviously but they’ve utilized him well. 
I hope they give Dixon a good role in this one, with the case involving a senator’s murder she needs a heavy role. She hasn’t been used enough.

[Clawdette]

You can really see a resemblance between Sam and his daughter. I know it was special for him to be able to act with her in an episode.

[SunnyBeBe]

I really enjoyed seeing McCoy. I found the daughter annoying.  Her position seemed bizarre and unrealistic.  Plus, you are required to take offers to your client. It wasn’t her decision to reject an offer. I was not impressed with her representation at all.  Where was the team a defendant in that situation would have had.  She was wrong to guilt trip her dad too.  Ugh….

Edited May 19, 2023 by SunnyBeBe

[MerBearHou]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I really enjoyed seeing McCoy. I found the daughter annoying.  Her position seemed bizarre and unrealistic.  Plus, you are required to take offers to your client. It wasn’t her decision to reject an offer. I was not impressed with her representation at all.  Where was the team a defendant in that situation would have had.  She was wrong to guilt trip her dad too.  Ugh….

Everything you said…completely agree.  I pretty much loathed this episode.  I rolled my eyes and said “come ON” so many times.  

Edited May 19, 2023 by MerBearHou

[Spartan Girl]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I really enjoyed seeing McCoy. I found the daughter annoying.  Her position seemed bizarre and unrealistic.  Plus, you are required to take offers to your client. It wasn’t her decision to reject an offer. I was not impressed with her representation at all.  Where was the team a defendant in that situation would have had.  She was wrong to guilt trip her dad too.  Ugh….

Seriously! Was she expecting special treatment and a sweetheart deal because Jack was the DA?

Also, I’m sorry, but I can’t feel sorry for a survivor of a shooting that will deliberately inflict that same trauma and pain on anyone else. It’s just a slap in the face to everyone fighting to make sure shootings never happen again.

[WendyCR72]

Inspired choice to have another actress daughter of Sam Waterston playing Rebecca. This daughter is apparently Elisabeth. (His daughter, Katherine, had a recent role on the Perry Mason revival on HBO.)

But Rebecca annoyed me. Still, a lot of families have thorny relationships, so...

Nice to see Catherine Mary Stewart again (Victoria Chandler). I remember her all the way back on Days of Our Lives as original Kayla Brady!

[baldryanr]

McCoy's daughter never should have taken the case.  If Jack had offered any sort of softball plea deal the public would have been screaming about how she only got it because she went running to dad.  It would have wrecked him too (he's only soft on crime when his daughter is the defense attorney).

Plus the jury obviously agreed with Jack, so he had a point.

[SoapDoc]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I really enjoyed seeing McCoy. I found the daughter annoying.  Her position seemed bizarre and unrealistic.  Plus, you are required to take offers to your client. It wasn’t her position.  I was not impressed with her representation at all.  Where was the team a defendant in that situation would have had.  She was wrong to guilt trip her dad too.  Ugh….

 

This seems to be a consensus...I didn't enjoy her character at all. I appreciate that she's Sam W's real-life daughter, but no more lawyering from her...

 

[Spartan Girl]

Another thing that pissed me off is trying to pass the buck to mental health/PTSD. Lots of people go through that, they don’t shoot people! That guy was no better than the killer that shot up his school. 

[MerBearHou]

Adding to all that’s been said, I couldn’t believe Price melting down like a first year prosecutor might.  This cannot be the first time he felt empathy for a “nice” defendant — you’ve sworn to uphold the law, bud.  He let the psychiatrist preach too long from the witness stand.  That would never have happened with a prosecutor trying to get a conviction.  

Edited May 19, 2023 by MerBearHou

[Madding crowd]

Price is still suffering from PTSD himself from the subway shooting he witnessed. Neither him nor the DA’s daughter should have been on this case. I was just glad Maroun wasn’t lecturing Price thus time.

[Spartan Girl]

14 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

Adding to all that’s been said, I couldn’t believe Price melting down like a first year prosecutor might.  This cannot be the first time he felt empathy for a “nice” defendant — you’ve sworn to uphold the law, bud.  He let the psychiatrist preach too long from the witness stand.  That would never have happened with a prosecutor trying to get a conviction.  

I wish he would have told Rebecca: “Yeah, I was at the subway shooting, and I remember how scared and traumatized that was. That’s why I’d never do that to anyone else.” That would have been awesome.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

This was interesting - it was awesome to have a Jack heavy episode, and I agree with everyone here about finding Rebecca irritating. She was wrong to try to guilt trip Jack for doing his job. Jack was absolutely right at the press conference when he said we can’t let people settle political disputes with guns, and I was glad the jury got the right verdict at the end. To be honest I was getting annoyed with Nolan as well - I thought he shouldn’t be trying the case if he was getting so emotional about it, Jack should’ve removed him as lead prosecutor IMO, he was letting his emotions get in the way of his job. The defendant’s backstory was tragic but he carefully planned an assassination - I didn’t buy that he was insane at the time of the shooting, he committed the crime with care and evaded capture for a while, he belonged in prison not in a psych ward. I didn’t even think they should’ve offered a plea deal and I thought Nolan was getting sanctimonious with Jack. 
I really would’ve liked to have heard closing arguments in the case - they should’ve made time for that. And the show again showed how we really need a new psych expert introduced, we saw the defense’s expert but we didn’t see the prosecution’s expert - how I miss Skoda/Olivet. And we didn’t even see Price question the shooter again after the adjournment. So there was some stuff on the legal side I thought was missing, which has been the case often this year. 
The victim had a terrible security team to let him get assassinated and the shooter evade immediate capture. The police side was brief but solid, I liked seeing Dixon at the crime scene, and I liked seeing a lot of police presence and even FBI agents helping out, it made sense for a high profile case. I enjoy Cosgrove/Shaw, they are a good pairing, they did a really good job bringing in Shaw this year and fleshing out Cosgrove to make him a well rounded character. The detective side is very solid - the legal side less so.   
I thought the testimony of the victim’s daughter was compelling, I felt terrible for her.    
So I thought this was decent overall and it was nice to have a Jack heavy episode, but I agree with everyone that Rebecca was irritating and was being unreasonable, she was wrong to make things so personal with Jack when it wasn’t anything personal. And Price shouldn’t have been trying the case and I was annoyed at his getting so emotional when the shooter was testifying - I didn’t buy that a seasoned lawyer would get so emotional. So I found both Price and Rebecca annoying tonight. But Jack was good and I liked seeing him give a press conference, come to the courthouse and so on, the more Jack the better. Some good stuff, some flaws, decent overall season finale. 

[Diana Berry]

Wouldn’t the defendant have an automatic appeal for ineffective  counsel? She didn’t tell him about the plea or was that her plan??

[SunnyBeBe]

50 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

Wouldn’t the defendant have an automatic appeal for ineffective  counsel? She didn’t tell him about the plea or was that her plan??

I thought of that too.  

[WendyCR72]

50 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

Wouldn’t the defendant have an automatic appeal for ineffective  counsel? She didn’t tell him about the plea or was that her plan??

Probably. And this probably would have been mentioned had the writing been as it was the first 20 seasons. But now...

At least Sam Waterston got quality family time acting with his daughter in this episode. That's about all I really take away from this.

[Andyourlittledog2]

Let's just say that this episode had a lot of promise but was poorly written. Jack's daughter acted like a sanctimonious eighth grader, Price's sudden inability to continue cross examination and asking for a recess for the rest of the day (and granted it!) was bizarre, and the heavy handed music during the courtroom scenes was really oppressive, as though they were making sure we understood how important this issue is. It was just a melodramatic heavy handed opinion piece. I come down on the gun control side of things but holy crap that was  not the way to approach this subject.

So the defense is that I am so traumatized by being a victim of a shooting that I could not help but terrorize other people and shoot someone who disagreed with me on the subject? And that makes me insane at the time, not culpable?  Nope. Just because you understand how someone feels and why they do what they do does not mean you have to give them a pass and let them act out themselves.  We all have trauma and we all have our reasons. We cannot exist as a society if we don't hold ourselves and others accountable for their bad acts. The exception being actual serious mental illness. You know, the hallucinatory delusional kind, not the I feel jumpy when a car backfires kind.

Loved seeing so much of Jack. Loved seeing more of Dixon. Loved the cop side of things. The law side, once again, underperformed - this time spectacularly.

 

[Andyourlittledog2]

Was anyone else surprised that Jack's daughter didn't stomp her foot and cry 'No fair! No fair! No fair!'?  And then at the end she took her ball and went home. Poor Jack. When you realize who your daughter has grown up to be.

[EtheltoTillie]

It’s becoming a weekly thing. I just turn off the show in the middle of the courtroom half. It’s become just a bore. At least it’s a time saver. Another case where there’s a conflict of interest among counsel. This is bad writing. 

[baldryanr]

10 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Another thing that pissed me off is trying to pass the buck to mental health/PTSD. Lots of people go through that, they don’t shoot people! That guy was no better than the killer that shot up his school. 

That's realistic, though.  The world has swung from one extreme (suck it up) to the other (I can't do "fill in the blank" and/or I did this bad thing because of my mental health, so give me a pass or you're a callous asshole).

But yeah, that argument would have held a lot more weight if he had been working as a waiter and just snapped in the moment, or something like that. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by baldryanr

[blackwing]

I thoroughly hated this episode.  The only good thing about it was that Sam Waterston finally got significant screentime.  I think this might be the most he's appeared during the past two years.

14 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I really enjoyed seeing McCoy. I found the daughter annoying.  Her position seemed bizarre and unrealistic.  Plus, you are required to take offers to your client. It wasn’t her decision to reject an offer. I was not impressed with her representation at all.  Where was the team a defendant in that situation would have had.  She was wrong to guilt trip her dad too.  Ugh….

I hated this character.  It started at the arraignment when she said that her client shouldn't be remanded, he needs to be able to go home and get treatment.  Even though he still is going to be on trial for killing a Senator.  So self righteous.  Thinking that she was going to get special treatment because her father would just give her what she wanted.  Then the guilt trip.

The worst was when she was all "Linc got into Columbia Law School.  I'll tell him you said hi."  Obviously she and Jack don't have much of a relationship, at all.  This would be something that would have been shared in a phone call as soon as he got in.  Not dropped as a passive aggressive "my son got into law school, if you were a better father to me then we would have more of a relationship and you would have already known that, but I'm telling you now as I get into this taxi to try and make you feel regret that we aren't closer".  Whatever.

14 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

Adding to all that’s been said, I couldn’t believe Price melting down like a first year prosecutor might.  This cannot be the first time he felt empathy for a “nice” defendant — you’ve sworn to uphold the law, bud.  He let the psychiatrist preach too long from the witness stand.  That would never have happened with a prosecutor trying to get a conviction.  

14 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Price is still suffering from PTSD himself from the subway shooting he witnessed. Neither him nor the DA’s daughter should have been on this case. I was just glad Maroun wasn’t lecturing Price thus time.

Price looked bad in this episode.  If he still has PTSD then he needs to get treatment and he should have recused himself from the case.  Once Rebecca made things personal and it became evident that she couldn't do her job without bringing in the family drama, she should have been off too.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

The worst was when she was all "Linc got into Columbia Law School.  I'll tell him you said hi."  Obviously she and Jack don't have much of a relationship, at all.  This would be something that would have been shared in a phone call as soon as he got in.  Not dropped as a passive aggressive "my son got into law school, if you were a better father to me then we would have more of a relationship and you would have already known that, but I'm telling you now as I get into this taxi to try and make you feel regret that we aren't closer".  Whatever.

If she’s going to be that much of a bitch about losing the case, maybe Jack’s better off not having a relationship with her. 

[illdoc]

Anyone else notice that the defense attorney did not introduce any evidence that the defendant had sought therapeutic help in the four years since his trauma? If he hadn't sought help (and given the "insanity" defense, it certainly should have been entered into evidence, so he probably didn't), shouldn't have Price mentioned that during his cross (of either the defendant or the psychiatrist)? You know "you say you had this trauma. Did you seek help? Wasn't it severe enough?" To psychiatrist "so he was sane enough to not seek help for the last four years, goes "crazy" just this one day (while still being "sane enough" to plan & escape the assassination), then he's sane again. Does that make sense to you?" (that was the doctor's contention--that he could be sane to plan, then suddenly "crazy" during the crime, then sane again). And the defense attorney's cross of the daughter "witnessing the shooting was traumatic, wasn't it?", trying to introduce the concept that the defendant witnessed/was part of a shooting and it caused his craziness. Well, there's a difference between "shooting which happened two months ago" and "shooting which happened four years ago", but that fact is never brought up. Now, I'm not saying "it was four years ago, get over it". I'm just saying there are degrees of suffering and it's not the same after enough time has passed versus just happened. 

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

The worst was when she was all "Linc got into Columbia Law School.  I'll tell him you said hi."  Obviously she and Jack don't have much of a relationship, at all.  This would be something that would have been shared in a phone call as soon as he got in. 

She first mentioned he was applying to law schools when she and Jack had coffee.

I thought this episode was a mess, for many of the reasons already mentioned. The order side again got short shrift—we never saw Nolan cross-examine the defendant, there were no closing arguments (which seems sadly par for the course now), and Rebecca was playing to emotion, not fact. That's why I wanted to see closing arguments.

On the good side of things, Jack got more to do, and though I thought Elizabeth Waterston was a bit stiff, even aside from her character's unease with her father, it was fun to see the RL father daughter work together. And Dixon finally got a bit more to do.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

She first mentioned he was applying to law schools when she and Jack had coffee.

Ah I must have missed that.  The day after she mentioned law school, he got his acceptance letter?  So she just found out herself as well.  Still, the way she told him was extremely nasty.  "Linc is going to law school.  Too bad I couldn't emotionally blackmail you into giving me a win in this case.  If you had, then maybe you'd get to see your grandson follow in your footsteps.  Instead, our family is broken.  I'll tell him you said hi."   Ugh.

[SunnyBeBe]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

Ah I must have missed that.  The day after she mentioned law school, he got his acceptance letter?  So she just found out herself as well.  Still, the way she told him was extremely nasty.  "Linc is going to law school.  Too bad I couldn't emotionally blackmail you into giving me a win in this case.  If you had, then maybe you'd get to see your grandson follow in your footsteps.  Instead, our family is broken.  I'll tell him you said hi."   Ugh.

I have a very good long time friend who is like family to me. We are both attorneys.  There is no way I’d accept a case in which she was representing the other party, let alone take and expect her to do me a favor due to our relationship.  It’s preposterous.  

Edited May 19, 2023 by SunnyBeBe

[Spartan Girl]

23 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought the testimony of the victim’s daughter was compelling, I felt terrible for her

Yeah, for all Rebecca’s haranguing on Jack for so supposedly not having any empathy, she sure as shit didn’t seem to have a lot of empathy for her. 

[shapeshifter]

I was sure that the issue was going to be that the Covid mask with the DNA was going to be thrown out as evidence.

This rebooted show has trained me to expect disappointing shenanigans. 
I don’t recall the original flavor show consistently having this be part of the formula.

 

On 5/18/2023 at 10:41 PM, Xeliou66 said:

And we didn’t even see Price question the shooter again after the adjournment.

Again it seemed like they cut stuff for time and are presuming the audience will accept it and fill in the blanks.

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Raja]

14 hours ago, blackwing said:

"She first mentioned he was applying to law schools when she and Jack had coffee."

 

Ah I must have missed that.  The day after she mentioned law school, he got his acceptance letter?  So she just found out herself as well.  Still, the way she told him was extremely nasty.  "Linc is going to law school.  Too bad I couldn't emotionally blackmail you into giving me a win in this case.  If you had, then maybe you'd get to see your grandson follow in your footsteps.  Instead, our family is broken.  I'll tell him you said hi."   Ugh

To be fair the coffee was before the arraignment. Even given the L&O speedy trial I would guess it took more than 3 days.

 

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I was sure that the issue was going to be that the Covid mask with the DNA was going to be thrown out as evidence.

In the Law portion I heard "COVID mask", not just "mask"  with every utterance. And I live and work in an area with a relatively high mask usage rate to this day. Maybe it is a regional usage of language?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

In the Law portion I heard "COVID mask", not just "mask"  with every utterance. And I live and work in an area with a relatively high mask usage rate to this day. Maybe it is a regional usage of language?

Maybe. But it was just a red herring.

[Samsnee]

I expected Jack’s daughter to go complete Violet Beauregard and say “But I want it! I want it!” to Jack

[CrystalBlue]

Rebecca was just too emotional about the case and her cause as she saw it.  She absolutely had a duty to her client to reveal the plea deal.  She could advise him as she saw fit and he could accept or reject her advice and/or the plea deal, but it's his choice.  She shoulda taken the 15 years!  But she was being a SJW about gun control and PTSD.

I enjoyed the episode because of more Jack and I love dysfunctional family dynamics cases more than political case and this kind of combined both.

I was wondering if Nolan was feeding off of Rebecca's emotional state and that's why he started having trouble, and pulled the recess stunt in court.

The bloody wedding dress was chilling and heartbreaking.  That poor bride (and her new husband) has to remember their wedding day and anniversary for the rest of their lives.  Losing your father on your wedding day would be bad enough, but murdered in cold blood right in front of you.  Yeah, the jury reached the right verdict.

Rebecca is an insufferable daughter.  Poor Jack.

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, Samsnee said:

I expected Jack’s daughter to go complete Violet Beauregard and say “But I want it! I want it!” to Jack

I think you mean Veruca Salt 😉

If anyone’s interested I just did a post about this episode in the “Hell no” TV moments thread.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[SunnyBeBe]

4 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Rebecca was just too emotional about the case and her cause as she saw it.  She absolutely had a duty to her client to reveal the plea deal.  She could advise him as she saw fit and he could accept or reject her advice and/or the plea deal, but it's his choice.  She shoulda taken the 15 years!  But she was being a SJW about gun control and PTSD.

I enjoyed the episode because of more Jack and I love dysfunctional family dynamics cases more than political case and this kind of combined both.

I was wondering if Nolan was feeding off of Rebecca's emotional state and that's why he started having trouble, and pulled the recess stunt in court.

The bloody wedding dress was chilling and heartbreaking.  That poor bride (and her new husband) has to remember their wedding day and anniversary for the rest of their lives.  Losing your father on your wedding day would be bad enough, but murdered in cold blood right in front of you.  Yeah, the jury reached the right verdict.

Rebecca is an insufferable daughter.  Poor Jack.

I actually wondered why he offered the stained wedding dress.  It seemed more prejudicial than probative, imo. He didn’t need the item to prove his case and it seemed to be offered to provoke emotion.  

Edited May 21, 2023 by SunnyBeBe

[Raja]

12 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I actually wondered why he offered the stained wedding dress.  It seemed more prejudicial than probative, imo. He didn’t need the item to prove his case and it seemed to be offered to provoke emotion.  

I guess to fill in the blanks the defense let it go since to show the witness reacting emotionally bolsters their case that the defendant was similarly effected from his past. But it was way too sparse and just thrown into our viewer's sight, and we expect an objection and judges interaction in that scene.

[shapeshifter]

48 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I actually wondered why he offered the stained wedding dress.  It seemed more prejudicial than probative, imo. He didn’t need the item to prove his case and it seemed to be offered to provoke emotion.  

30 minutes ago, Raja said:

I guess to fill in the blanks the defense let it go since to show the witness reacting emotionally bolsters their case that the defendant was similarly effected from his past. But it was way too sparse and just thrown into our viewer's sight, and we expect an objection and judges interaction in that scene.

The entirely blood-covered wedding gown seemed more like gratuitous violence for us, the viewers. 
IRL, I would think the dress would come up during sentencing.

ETA: Wasn't the blood on the dress a little too red? Wouldn't it be brown?

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Joimiaroxeu]

Have we seen that police commissioner before? She was kind of blah to me but I guess she wasn't supposed to upstage the main characters.

WTH, they sicced a police dog on an innocent person who just happened to be in the area? "Oh well, go over there and let someone have a look at your arm that was almost ripped out of the socket Next time, don't run from us."

If the victim a US Senator why wasn't the perp charged federally?

It was odd Price and Maroun didn't know the perp had been involved in a high profile way in a mass shooting. You'd think the guy's name and face would've been all over the media and they would've recognized him. Plus his background should've been thoroughly investigated as part of the pre-trial preparation. This show keeps using the prosecution's lack of sufficient research as a convenient plot hole.

So what's the over/under on Hugh Dancy returning in the next season? Apparently he has a lot of detractors due to his overly emo portrayal of Price. His wife is back working again so maybe he can stay home for a while, lol.

[Raja]

22 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Have we seen that police commissioner before? She was kind of blah to me but I guess she wasn't supposed to upstage the main characters.

WTH, they sicced a police dog on an innocent person who just happened to be in the area? "Oh well, go over there and let someone have a look at your arm that was almost ripped out of the socket Next time, don't run from us."

If the victim a US Senator why wasn't the perp charged federally?

It was odd Price and Maroun didn't know the perp had been involved in a high profile way in a mass shooting. You'd think the guy's name and face would've been all over the media and they would've recognized him. Plus his background should've been thoroughly investigated as part of the pre-trial preparation. This show keeps using the prosecution's lack of sufficient research as a convenient plot hole.

NCIS does the same thing, each of its 3 shows show has its own chief to get in he way of the boss and unit we are watching.  As opposed to Oscar Goldman being on 6 Million Dollar Man and Bionic Woman back in the day. Some Chief just got in the way in the SVU/OC crossover I guess he played that role on SVU. OC has its Deputy Inspector over not your ordinary Sergeant Bell.

With lots of real world police agencies going with no bite dog usage policies that it was used with so little comment was shocking. It was passed off as a homeless victim so nobody would listen to him if Detective  Bernard was back in IAB and had to go after the squad.

In DA McCoy's press conference he mentioned that there were discussions with the US Attorney and it was decided to let New York prosecute. It wasn't as bad as having ADA Price being deputized as  an AUSA to do a death penalty case when he was against the death penalty personally.

Forget what I said upthread about 3 days from arrest to guilty verdict at times it does play like that is exactly what happens.  How the prosecution can get as far as was shown with no ideal the murderer was a victim of a mass spree killer is just another example of a show messing with its legacy in the last seasons. The strike should provide cover to replace the bunch Wolf has on now.

[SunnyBeBe]

Jen wants a job on TLC, not a marriage, imo.  

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

How the prosecution can get as far as was shown with no ideal the murderer was a victim of a mass spree killer is just another example of a show messing with its legacy in the last seasons.

I think it's called "motive." [/sarcasm]

[Cotypubby]

On 5/20/2023 at 6:29 AM, Raja said:

In the Law portion I heard "COVID mask", not just "mask"  with every utterance. And I live and work in an area with a relatively high mask usage rate to this day. Maybe it is a regional usage of language?

No, it stuck out as weird to me too and I live in NYC. No one says “COVID mask” they just say “mask.” 

[wknt3]

On 5/20/2023 at 6:29 AM, Raja said:

In the Law portion I heard "COVID mask", not just "mask"  with every utterance. And I live and work in an area with a relatively high mask usage rate to this day. Maybe it is a regional usage of language?

 

10 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

No, it stuck out as weird to me too and I live in NYC. No one says “COVID mask” they just say “mask.” 

I have seen distinction between "surgical" or "Covid" masks and other types of masks in a security context. Perhaps the detectives and writers were just trying to make clear it was a relatively inconspicuous medical mask and not a ski mask or bandanna style mask?
 

On 5/21/2023 at 9:53 AM, shapeshifter said:

.ETA: Wasn't the blood on the dress a little too red? Wouldn't it be brown?

Actually I think it might stay pretty red since it was put into the sealed evidence bag pretty quickly? Not sure how air tight the bags are and how long it would slow the oxidation process, but it's something to think about.
 

On 5/21/2023 at 8:16 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Have we seen that police commissioner before? She was kind of blah to me but I guess she wasn't supposed to upstage the main characters.

No. I'm not sure we've ever seen the PC before in a speaking role at least. Maybe if you count the collar stars on the extras in one of the press conference or briefing scenes we might have seen them on screen. In the old days everyone over the Chief of D's was usually only referenced - they probably would have shown the SUV pulling up and then relayed the conversation later. I really don't think it added anything TBH unless you count that we didn't get a McGrath cameo on the mothership.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

 

I have seen distinction between "surgical" or "Covid" masks and other types of masks in a security context. Perhaps the detectives and writers were just trying to make clear it was a relatively inconspicuous medical mask and not a ski mask or bandanna style mask?
 

Actually I think it might stay pretty red since it was put into the sealed evidence bag pretty quickly? Not sure how air tight the bags are and how long it would slow the oxidation process, but it's something to think about.
 

No. I'm not sure we've ever seen the PC before in a speaking role at least. Maybe if you count the collar stars on the extras in one of the press conference or briefing scenes we might have seen them on screen. In the old days everyone over the Chief of D's was usually only referenced - they probably would have shown the SUV pulling up and then relayed the conversation later. I really don't think it added anything TBH unless you count that we didn't get a McGrath cameo on the mothership.

No we had never seen the commissioner before - I liked it though, it made sense she would be there given the very high profile nature of the case, and I liked how we saw FBI agents and a lot of other law enforcement in the background as well. Nice to see Dixon go to a crime scene. 

[incandescent]

On 5/21/2023 at 9:53 AM, shapeshifter said:

ETA: Wasn't the blood on the dress a little too red? Wouldn't it be brown?

This show has been pretty bad about aging blood. The episode before last they found the murder weapon quite late in their investigation and Shaw said (about the bright red all over the broken tennis racquet) "that ain't ketchup." But honestly, it looked more like ketchup than it did blood, fresh or otherwise.

[WendyCR72]

Even way back when in the franchise, blood has always been red, even for aged blood. I guess it must be harder to simulate. Chocolate sauce or something is TOO dark.

Maybe use Barbecue sauce or something?

[shapeshifter]

44 minutes ago, incandescent said:

This show has been pretty bad about aging blood. The episode before last they found the murder weapon quite late in their investigation and Shaw said (about the bright red all over the broken tennis racquet) "that ain't ketchup." But honestly, it looked more like ketchup than it did blood, fresh or otherwise.

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Even way back when in the franchise, blood has always been red, even for aged blood. I guess it must be harder to simulate. Chocolate sauce or something is TOO dark.

Maybe use Barbecue sauce or something?

Yeah, I have to admit that I can't recall ever seeing brown blood stains at fictional TV murder scenes.
It's just something I have to complain about.
What I'm probably *really* complaining about is that bright red fake blood stains always make me think there's an assumption that most male viewers never see dried blood — which is probably a valid concern, so it shouldn't bother me.
But how did that much of the front of the wedding gown get covered with blood anyway? Seems to defy gravity. 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

[CrystalBlue]

I think that the bride must have leaned down over her father as he laid on the ground bleeding out, made contact with his bleeding chest and the dress absorbed blood.  This could have happened off camera and then we see in the courtroom the extent of the bleeding for the shock value.

[Notwisconsin]

On 5/19/2023 at 12:05 PM, blackwing said:

The worst was when she was all "Linc got into Columbia Law School.  I'll tell him you said hi."  Obviously she and Jack don't have much of a relationship, at all. 

Ever since Moriarty left, Wolf and Co. made it clear that McCoy and his daughter were estranged.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

Ever since Moriarty left, Wolf and Co. made it clear that McCoy and his daughter were estranged.

Yeah in season 17 it was revealed that Jack and Rebecca hadn’t spoken in 9 years. He met up with her in season 17 and mentioned her once or twice in the following seasons, but yeah they’ve never had the best relationship.