S02.E06: Qui

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

At this point, trying to say that there was never anything supernatural going on with Lottie and it was all coincidence would be extremely contrived.

I don't see how it would be contrived. There's nothing breaking the laws of physics here.

But their experience of it as potentially supernatural is still real. To quote a book I've been reading, it's a situation where "The fantastical becomes so absorbed into the real that the two are unnervingly difficult to tell apart." That's a pretty common central idea in folk horror.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

22 hours ago, AstridM said:

I don’t think Lottie has been “right” about anything, really.

She was right about Shauna's baby being a boy. But that's just a coin toss.

 

I think the supernatural vs. natural element of the show always has been and always will be just 2 ways of looking at the same thing. Like some people will look at the majesty of nature and decide an all powerful god created it while others will appreciate it without a supernatural explanation. I don't think they are ever going to come down on either side of that line definitively. So if you don't like that aspect of the show, you are probably going to have a bad time.

I've got to agree with everyone on the fake outs becoming annoying. The one with Shauna was especially obnoxious because it was so plausible. The constant crying, inability to nurse and Lottie acting like a nutjob are all things I would expect to happen in that situation. It's like if someone lied to you about something banal and then mocked you for believing them. If it were an outrageous lie, then sure, you'd be skeptical. Kind of like the difference between someone lying about finding a dollar on the street vs. winning the lottery. If I were writing the show, I think I'd have Shauna dream she was waking up in the hospital, have her ask about her baby, be told that he was fine and maybe even have her see him. The audience would think oh, this is after they finally get rescued. Then I'd rip the rug out and have Shauna wake up to reality. Anyway, it's becoming like the boy who cried wolf. I'll never be able to believe anything I see. And now Lottie's therapist may be...Lottie's hallucination...Lottie? Yikes on bikes. A whole fake person now.

When the season first started, I read a lot of complaints about the pacing of the show and thought, chill, we're only on episode 2. But now after episode 6, I find myself agreeing that the pacing is really off. There are simultaneously places where they are really spinning their wheels and other places where they are introducing new stuff only to drop it or not really explore thoroughly. How many times are we going to see Coach Ben imagine he was back in his old life? How long do we have to watch Nat hang out with the cult and not really do much else? Why introduce Walter, suggest some great Sherlock/Moriarty relationship with Misty only to have him exit stage left? Was the whole Adam mess just a way to get Shauna to the cult? What's up with Javi already?

All critiques aside, I am excited to watch the show every week. I love all the "adult" actresses and think they are doing a great job, I just wish they had something better to do.

[Cranberry]

I know the "is this supernatural or psychological" thing is a big debate everywhere people are discussing the show, and debate is fine, but none of us can know either way. The writers are deliberately riding that line so the audience can interpret things how we prefer. Therefore, until/unless we get a real answer from the show, please refrain from stating definitively that either side is right or wrong. Discuss hints and clues and continue to debate the issue, but be kind to people with a different opinion. Thank you!

[AstridM]

55 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't see how it would be contrived. There's nothing breaking the laws of physics here.

But their experience of it as potentially supernatural is still real. To quote a book I've been reading, it's a situation where "The fantastical becomes so absorbed into the real that the two are unnervingly difficult to tell apart." That's a pretty common central idea in folk horror.

Yes, their experience as potentially supernatural is real. 

51 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

She was right about Shauna's baby being a boy. But that's just a coin toss.

 

I think the supernatural vs. natural element of the show always has been and always will be just 2 ways of looking at the same thing. Like some people will look at the majesty of nature and decide an all powerful god created it while others will appreciate it without a supernatural explanation. I don't think they are ever going to come down on either side of that line definitively. So if you don't like that aspect of the show, you are probably going to have a bad time.

I've got to agree with everyone on the fake outs becoming annoying. The one with Shauna was especially obnoxious because it was so plausible. The constant crying, inability to nurse and Lottie acting like a nutjob are all things I would expect to happen in that situation. It's like if someone lied to you about something banal and then mocked you for believing them. If it were an outrageous lie, then sure, you'd be skeptical. Kind of like the difference between someone lying about finding a dollar on the street vs. winning the lottery. If I were writing the show, I think I'd have Shauna dream she was waking up in the hospital, have her ask about her baby, be told that he was fine and maybe even have her see him. The audience would think oh, this is after they finally get rescued. Then I'd rip the rug out and have Shauna wake up to reality. Anyway, it's becoming like the boy who cried wolf. I'll never be able to believe anything I see. And now Lottie's therapist may be...Lottie's hallucination...Lottie? Yikes on bikes. A whole fake person now.

When the season first started, I read a lot of complaints about the pacing of the show and thought, chill, we're only on episode 2. But now after episode 6, I find myself agreeing that the pacing is really off. There are simultaneously places where they are really spinning their wheels and other places where they are introducing new stuff only to drop it or not really explore thoroughly. How many times are we going to see Coach Ben imagine he was back in his old life? How long do we have to watch Nat hang out with the cult and not really do much else? Why introduce Walter, suggest some great Sherlock/Moriarty relationship with Misty only to have him exit stage left? Was the whole Adam mess just a way to get Shauna to the cult? What's up with Javi already?

All critiques aside, I am excited to watch the show every week. I love all the "adult" actresses and think they are doing a great job, I just wish they had something better to do.

When the placenta is delivered before the baby, the baby won’t be born alive. That was the giveaway.

[For Cereals]

19 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Oh, also wanted to mention that I did a whole Tom & Lorenzo type analysis of Lottie's outfits this season and how their colors seem to say something about her mental state, and one scene that really stood out was when she went to see her therapist. There she wears an uncharicteristic cream colored top with grey pants...and that's what her "substitute" therapist is wearing too, along with similar jewelry. There's also some similar decor in the office. It really seemed to suggest that this therapist, who was telling her to listen to her hallucinations as telling her something, was actually not real.

So wanted to mention how in this ep she returns to the therapist and this time we don't even see the woman, but from the back of her we do see, she's again wearing the same color top as Lottie.

I agree with this.  I would love the angle of Lottie not buying into her own BS, but I’m suspicious they didn’t show the therapist and that the sub wouldn’t just write up a new script instead of helping Lottie justify her visions.  I tend not to believe the supernatural aspects of the show (I’ll ETA that I think everything is explainable, but the door is still open), but with the therapist, I kept flashing to the show Evil and the therapy sessions with the devil making me think these are all in Lottie’s head…

Edited May 6, 2023 by For Cereals

[sistermagpie]

53 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I've got to agree with everyone on the fake outs becoming annoying. The one with Shauna was especially obnoxious because it was so plausible. The constant crying, inability to nurse and Lottie acting like a nutjob are all things I would expect to happen in that situation. It's like if someone lied to you about something banal and then mocked you for believing them. If it were an outrageous lie, then sure, you'd be skeptical. Kind of like the difference between someone lying about finding a dollar on the street vs. winning the lottery. If I were writing the show, I think I'd have Shauna dream she was waking up in the hospital, have her ask about her baby, be told that he was fine and maybe even have her see him. The audience would think oh, this is after they finally get rescued. Then I'd rip the rug out and have Shauna wake up to reality. Anyway, it's becoming like the boy who cried wolf. I'll never be able to believe anything I see. And now Lottie's therapist may be...Lottie's hallucination...Lottie? Yikes on bikes. A whole fake person now.

 

I don't think it's meant to make anybody feel lied to or mocked, like these things are there to fool the audience. We need them, because we're experiencing what the characters are, and if we miss these things we're missing a piece of the puzzle.

This episode's version of it was obviously more intense because Shauna's time unconscious gave her a dream with multiple scenes, but, think of Lottie's visions of the bee hives full of blood, for instance. It seemed real, then it wasn't, but it was still a plot point because it sent Lottie to the psychiatrist and is part of why she thinks her visions are real etc. If the show is mocking the audience for believing these things they'd be mocking Lottie and Shauna and Travis too, but it seems to be the opposite. That these things are so real they are things that happened. (This is reminding me of a Proust now, if you've ever read him, with a subjective experience being a fake out.)

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't see how it would be contrived. There's nothing breaking the laws of physics here.

Contrived in the sense that at this point I think there are way too many separate instances, some of them extremely on-point, to wave it off as coincidental.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, AstridM said:

Yes, their experience as potentially supernatural is real. 

When the placenta is delivered before the baby, the baby won’t be born alive. That was the giveaway.

Yes, but this is also TV so they sometimes have things happen that aren't possible in real life. When the placenta was delivered first, I thought the baby was no longer getting oxygen and couldn't survive. But then when they showed Shauna's dream of it being fine, I was like, "okay, if you say so writers." It didn't occur to me it could be a dream.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Contrived in the sense that at this point I think there are way too many separate instances, some of them extremely on-point, to wave it off as coincidental.

YMMV, of course, but that's how coincidences work. You remember ones that were eerie and forget or wave off anything that wasn't, which is exactly what the survivors are going to do. Religious people do this all the time even in the regular world, often insisting there's no possible way it could have happened without a miracle when it totally could have. Or even without religion people often look at the steps that got them to where they were and think they seem too unlikely to be random.

I will say that I think something like Lottie seeing something as specific as a deer with its antlers' shedding that then shows up exactly that way suggests ESP could objectively happen in this world even without being consistent. Other things are more murky. She felt Javi was alive and the baby would be a boy (50/50, but Javi was a stretch), but she also seemed to expect the baby to live. She herself as a character was able to decide none of it was real. But it seems like some people already thought Lottie had a second sight before they crashed without considering it supernatural.

[SeanC]

11 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

YMMV, of course, but that's how coincidences work. You remember ones that were eerie and forget or wave off anything that wasn't, which is exactly what the survivors are going to do. Religious people do this all the time even in the regular world, often insisting there's no possible way it could have happened without a miracle when it totally could have. Or even without religion people often look at the steps that got them to where they were and think they seem too unlikely to be random.

I will say that I think something like Lottie seeing something as specific as a deer with its antlers' shedding that then shows up exactly that way suggests ESP could objectively happen in this world even without being consistent. Other things are more murky. She felt Javi was alive and the baby would be a boy (50/50, but Javi was a stretch), but she also seemed to expect the baby to live. She herself as a character was able to decide none of it was real. But it seems like some people already thought Lottie had a second sight before they crashed without considering it supernatural.

In the real world, sure, but in story terms, at a certain point from my perspective there's only so many coincidences you can pile up before it moves past being plausible.

Some of the things Lottie has seen, like guessing the baby's sex, aren't all that meaningful to me, but others like the death of Laura Lee are in a different echelon. And then there's whatever's going on with Taissa, which at this point is way past any sort of actual real-world psychology.

[AstridM]

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

In the real world, sure, but in story terms, at a certain point from my perspective there's only so many coincidences you can pile up before it moves past being plausible.

Some of the things Lottie has seen, like guessing the baby's sex, aren't all that meaningful to me, but others like the death of Laura Lee are in a different echelon. And then there's whatever's going on with Taissa, which at this point is way past any sort of actual real-world psychology.

She seems to have DID? (Dissociative identity disorder)

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

In the real world, sure, but in story terms, at a certain point from my perspective there's only so many coincidences you can pile up before it moves past being plausible.

Some of the things Lottie has seen, like guessing the baby's sex, aren't all that meaningful to me, but others like the death of Laura Lee are in a different echelon. And then there's whatever's going on with Taissa, which at this point is way past any sort of actual real-world psychology.

One thing that seems important about this too, is I don't think they're going to explain things in banal or realistic terms, because that wouldn't work either. It would seem contrived to lay out some explanation of everything via psychology or iron in the ground or something like that. The show's obviously intentionally presented the supernatural explanation as reasonable to the point where going too far in the other direction would feel completely false.

[WaltersHair]

It seems that when Lottie tries to actively use her 'powers', she fails. Aka the food challenge and saving Shauna's baby. When she just 'feels' something is going to happen, then she's proven right.

The fake out for me, as a writer's device is fine as long as it isn't overused. I personally think it was a cheap way to gain sympathy because viewers got to imagine a happy healthy baby for Shauna, when just showing the death itself would have been enough.

I'm going to guess they'll call this kid Caleb before they bury him and Callie was named after him. Wild guess.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

And now Lottie's therapist may be...Lottie's hallucination...Lottie? Yikes on bikes. A whole fake person now.

 

3 hours ago, For Cereals said:

I agree with this.  I would love the angle of Lottie not buying into her own BS, but I’m suspicious they didn’t show the therapist and that the sub wouldn’t just write up a new script instead of helping Lottie justify her visions.  I tend not to believe the supernatural aspects of the show (I’ll ETA that I think everything is explainable, but the door is still open), but with the therapist, I kept flashing to the show Evil and the therapy sessions with the devil making me think these are all in Lottie’s head…

I felt it was already suspicious they had Lottie see a sub therapist and then the therapist gave her not great advice and now they just didn't even show the therapist at all. Yea, Lottie is definitely just hallucinating this whole thing. GAH!

[BitterApple]

I'm on several forums that discuss this show and a recurring complaint has been that the culmination of Shauna's pregnancy was "anti-climactic." I'm respectful of all opinions, but I'm also scratching my head a little. 

We've known since the beginning of the show that the baby doesn't live. The  theories that Wilderness Baby was Adam or Lisa or left behind in the woods were always far-fetched. Shauna went through her entire pregnancy starving, malnourished and receiving no medical care. Her inexperienced teenage friends delivered her baby. Wouldn't a stillbirth be the most realistic and logical result? Even if the baby survived the delivery, it likely would've died early in infancy, so the resolution of the storyline is still the same. I'm curious as to what viewers were expecting?

 

[AstridM]

55 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I'm on several forums that discuss this show and a recurring complaint has been that the culmination of Shauna's pregnancy was "anti-climactic." I'm respectful of all opinions, but I'm also scratching my head a little. 

We've known since the beginning of the show that the baby doesn't live. The  theories that Wilderness Baby was Adam or Lisa or left behind in the woods were always far-fetched. Shauna went through her entire pregnancy starving, malnourished and receiving no medical care. Her inexperienced teenage friends delivered her baby. Wouldn't a stillbirth be the most realistic and logical result? Even if the baby survived the delivery, it likely would've died early in infancy, so the resolution of the storyline is still the same. I'm curious as to what viewers were expecting?

 

This was the resolution I expected. If the baby hadn’t been stillborn, it couldn’t have survived long. There are some nutty people out there!  I think some really, really want this show to be something it isn’t. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by AstridM

[JenE4]

The whole supernatural vs psychological debate brings to mind the other stranded airplane survivor show, Lost and the whole Man of Science vs Man of Faith storyline. (I was Team Locke all the way.) And now, here they are, banded back together and they have to go back to face the force of the wilderness head on to break the hold it’s had on their lives. Hmmm. Where have I heard that before…?

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

We've known since the beginning of the show that the baby doesn't live. The  theories that Wilderness Baby was Adam or Lisa or left behind in the woods were always far-fetched. Shauna went through her entire pregnancy starving, malnourished and receiving no medical care. Her inexperienced teenage friends delivered her baby. Wouldn't a stillbirth be the most realistic and logical result? Even if the baby survived the delivery, it likely would've died early in infancy, so the resolution of the storyline is still the same. I'm curious as to what viewers were expecting?

 

It was supposed to be overly complicated and shocking and yet already guessed, it seems, usually.

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

The whole supernatural vs psychological debate brings to mind the other stranded airplane survivor show, Lost and the whole Man of Science vs Man of Faith storyline. (I was Team Locke all the way.) And now, here they are, banded back together and they have to go back to face the force of the wilderness head on to break the hold it’s had on their lives. Hmmm. Where have I heard that before…?

But Lost had a smoke monster and a man healed of paralysis in the pilot, later moving on to to actual time travel etc.

Edited May 7, 2023 by sistermagpie

[JenE4]

27 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

It was supposed to be overly complicated and shocking and yet already guessed, it seems, usually.

But Lost had a smoke monster and a man healed of paralysis in the pilot, later moving on to to actual time travel etc.

That scene following the wind knocking the snow on Jackie to steam her on the funeral pyre was reminiscent of the smoke monster to me. We’ve had some medical miracles here too: Coach Ben surviving having his leg chopped off, Van surviving the wolf mauling, and Shauna surviving placenta previa and losing a lot of blood—all with no medical care. I’m not saying it’s a 1:1 rip-off, but there are some similarities. Here’s another. One has flashbacks to life before the island to build characterization; the other has flashbacks to life in the wilderness to build characterization. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by JenE4

[Anela]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'm on several forums that discuss this show and a recurring complaint has been that the culmination of Shauna's pregnancy was "anti-climactic." I'm respectful of all opinions, but I'm also scratching my head a little. 

We've known since the beginning of the show that the baby doesn't live. The  theories that Wilderness Baby was Adam or Lisa or left behind in the woods were always far-fetched. Shauna went through her entire pregnancy starving, malnourished and receiving no medical care. Her inexperienced teenage friends delivered her baby. Wouldn't a stillbirth be the most realistic and logical result? Even if the baby survived the delivery, it likely would've died early in infancy, so the resolution of the storyline is still the same. I'm curious as to what viewers were expecting?

 

I think they were just expecting something really crazy, and horrific. Some people really wanted them to eat the baby, or do something with it, like sacrifice it. 

[sistermagpie]

28 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

That scene following the wind knocking the snow on Jackie to steam her on the funeral pyre was reminiscent of the smoke monster to me. We’ve had some medical miracles here too: Coach Ben surviving having his leg chopped off, Van surviving the wolf mauling, and Shauna surviving placenta previa and losing a lot of blood—all with no medical care. I’m not saying it’s a 1:1 rip-off, but there are some similarities. Here’s another. One has flashbacks to life before the island to build characterization; the other has flashbacks to life in the wilderness to build characterization. 

Maybe I'm just not really understanding where you're coming from? I mean, of course there are obvious similarities in the two planecrash shows, but it seemed like there was some real connection or copying being suggested while to me that seemed like giving superificially similar things more weight than the heart of the shows. 

LIke: The smoke in Lost was a CGI creation moving in a way that defied physics that signalled sci-fi. The wind that knocked the snow of the tree was wind with a camera angle that suggested animism. Locke was a paralyzed man who was simply cured once he landed on the mysterious island. Coach Ben, Van and Shauna had medical emergencies and got medical treatment. Lost used flashbacks to build characterization and hint at a larger reasons why they were on the island. YJ has two parallel storieout the same people in different timelines.

I feel like Finding Nemo and Taken might have more in common underneath their superficial similarities than these two, despite also being different genres.

To bring it back to this ep, both shows have pregnant women who give birth after the crash--a pretty obvious storyline in this kind of situation--but with very different meanings.

5 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

The fake out for me, as a writer's device is fine as long as it isn't overused. I personally think it was a cheap way to gain sympathy because viewers got to imagine a happy healthy baby for Shauna, when just showing the death itself would have been enough.

 

MMV, but I don't think the main reason for it was for us to gain sympathy. It have a story where Shauna opened herself up to fully loving a baby once and how that had affected her feelings about motherhood later on, and how those feelings kept evolving. If she'd just lost the baby it would have been more of a horrible health crisis she went through that dealt with pregnancy and birth without a mother and child. When she remembers that time (if she ever thinks about it) she's remembering the living baby she had and lost.

The more I think about this ep, the more I wonder what it's going to mean for Ben. People often predict his death from uselessness and his authority has been fading fast from day 1, but the crisis he went through in this ep was so different from the one everyone else went through. I think there's a moment where Ben and Javi are standing together. Last week we saw Javi only speaking to Ben and people thought maybe they were connected as sort of pure because they were the two who hadn't engaged in cannibalism, but I wondered if in this ep Ben was with him because he and Javi, the actual child, dealt with the situation the same way, but turning away. (Or in Ben's case, running.)

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, JenE4 said:

The whole supernatural vs psychological debate brings to mind the other stranded airplane survivor show, Lost and the whole Man of Science vs Man of Faith storyline. (I was Team Locke all the way.) And now, here they are, banded back together and they have to go back to face the force of the wilderness head on to break the hold it’s had on their lives. Hmmm. Where have I heard that before…?

 

11 hours ago, JenE4 said:

That scene following the wind knocking the snow on Jackie to steam her on the funeral pyre was reminiscent of the smoke monster to me. We’ve had some medical miracles here too: Coach Ben surviving having his leg chopped off, Van surviving the wolf mauling, and Shauna surviving placenta previa and losing a lot of blood—all with no medical care. I’m not saying it’s a 1:1 rip-off, but there are some similarities. Here’s another. One has flashbacks to life before the island to build characterization; the other has flashbacks to life in the wilderness to build characterization. 

Yea, it's definitely giving Lost in many ways. Hopefully they don't make the same mistake Lost did and drag the show out longer than it needs to be.

[Anela]

I hadn’t even thought about the young woman having a baby in each show, when it comes to comparisons. Also, people wanting that baby for their own purposes.  Several seasons of Michael yelling “Walt!” as they wanted his kid, too. 
That scene with Lottie feeding Shauna’s baby, was one of the creepiest scenes in the show.

[Lambsilencer]

I had another theory about the baby while watching the episode, and I haven't even read the several fan theories about Lisa being Shauna's baby.

I thought that, since Lisa is played by transgender actor Nicole Maines, the boy could turn out to become Lisa later in life.

But, alas, wrong. The final scene was really haunting.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Lambsilencer

[Anela]

There's a clip from the next episode, that was released at the MTV movie awards. I couldn't find it on youtube, it was posted on reddit.

And now that I've said that, I've just seen this preview.

 

[hoodooznoodooz]

I hope they give us more teenagers-before-the-plane-crash scenes.

[hoodooznoodooz]

What a relief. Experienced and knowledgeable Misty finally took over from the inept Akilah, to encourage Shauna to “breathe” and “push.”

[blixie]

Quote

were always far-fetched. 

The baby living was far fetched but not that far fetched given they are presenting Javi having survived three months alone in the woods. I actually agree that the pregnancy resolution was anti-climactic precisely because the baby not living was a fairly obvious conclusion. It is certainly one more thing to break the girls down, they were all looking forward to it, and now the miracle of birth is just more death. But I just feel like the show has six plates spinning and keeps dropping one to address the other five in this case we just ignore the Javi issue for two weeks essentially to address other plot lines. This week we get rid of Sedecki Family Feud so Shauna can finally finally join the main plot line of the season, last week was Tai, I still enjoy the show but the pacing has been rough.

[Daltrey]

Loved Jeff blasting Fuck Tha Police outside the station, my favorite moment from the episode!🤣 I personally prefer the adult timeline; maybe it's because they've all been separated and dealing with their own issues but it's felt like much more is going on compared to the past where they mostly seem to hang around the cabin waiting for stuff to happen. Understandable being that it's winter and they're essentially snowed in, but still...

With all the debate over supernatural vs psychological, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the overhead shot of Lottie's compound appearing to be laid out in the shape of The Symbol. I won't weigh in one way or the other, I'm basically just enjoying the ride but...that has to mean something, right?!🤣 That said, the slow burn is starting to go cold, hopefully the rumors are true the next three really pick it up.

[AstridM]

8 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I hope they give us more teenagers-before-the-plane-crash scenes.

I doubt it since a large portion of the audience watches primarily for the adult stars, imo. 

39 minutes ago, Daltrey said:

Loved Jeff blasting Fuck Tha Police outside the station, my favorite moment from the episode!🤣 I personally prefer the adult timeline; maybe it's because they've all been separated and dealing with their own issues but it's felt like much more is going on compared to the past where they mostly seem to hang around the cabin waiting for stuff to happen. Understandable being that it's winter and they're essentially snowed in, but still...

With all the debate over supernatural vs psychological, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the overhead shot of Lottie's compound appearing to be laid out in the shape of The Symbol. I won't weigh in one way or the other, I'm basically just enjoying the ride but...that has to mean something, right?!🤣 That said, the slow burn is starting to go cold, hopefully the rumors are true the next three really pick it up.

To me that just means Lottie is still batshit crazy and obsessed, as she’s always been. 

[monagatuna]

That baby was doomed from the get-go, honestly. Even if it had survived birth, even if Shauna had been given extra calories during her pregnancy, as Nat pointed out, she's been starving. How was she going to feed it? TW: loss of pregnancy

Spoiler

I hate to say it but I think stillbirth is a mercy when the alternative is slowly starving to death, uncomfortable and freezing and surrounded by dying women.

Here's what I don't get, and why I think Shauna cracked well before rescue: she lost her best friend/lover's girlfriend and Jeff's kid. She's free of him. There's nothing tying them together. Even when they were screwing she didn't love him, and barely seemed to like him. So she then goes on to marry him and have his kid? Her guilt must have been chewing her up for years--either that or a misplaced desire to maintain a connection to the past you lost. No wonder she's such a mess now. 

And oh, my god, please, by all means, idiot family, discuss your crimes in loud arguments parked outside of the police station with the windows down. The only people more bumbling than this family are the police that they keep fooling.

And...is Callie underage? She seems like she's in her early 20s to me. She openly drinks at a bar, flirts with a cop who could easily find out her real age and refuse to engage with an underaged minor who's not able to drink. I get that stachecop is an idiot without scruples, but if he knew she was underage it was even stupider of him to go out with her, even if he did refuse to engage physically. I get that fake IDs are a thing, but it doesn't ring true to me. And if she is underage, why in the world would the cops have separated them? Shauna even calls them out for it, but then allows herself to be led away by Stachecop.

Also, did anyone else think that baby was HUGE, especially considering it was born to a starving teenage mother? That thing took up the entirety of Shauna's torso. That was a dead giveaway to me. No newborn is that big, not least one who's been shriveling up inside a starving mom for so long. I don't know the first thing about babies, but I'm pretty sure they're not toddler-sized right after birth. I'm glad they didn't have everyone eat it, though. There's a line you don't cross and the writers knew what the consequences would be if they'd written that in. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by monagatuna
Shauna was interviewed by Stachecop, not Hot Cop.

[Stuckathome]

1 hour ago, monagatuna said:

Also, did anyone else think that baby was HUGE, especially considering it was born to a starving teenage mother? That thing took up the entirety of Shauna's torso. That was a dead giveaway to me.

Yes, I had the same thoughts, that there was no way she delivered such a healthy looking chubster. But, to be fair, newborns on film are rarely actual newborn size. 

So, what was the deal with Callie mentioning the cop's wonky balls? I didn't think they had ever actually hooked up, so how would she know that? Doesn't seem like something a guy would tell a woman he was flirting with that he never had any intention of showing off the goods to. The other cop's face seemed to confirm she was telling the truth, so.....? How did she know? I also found myself screaming, "lawyer up!" 

[Anela]

3 hours ago, Daltrey said:

Loved Jeff blasting Fuck Tha Police outside the station, my favorite moment from the episode!🤣 I personally prefer the adult timeline; maybe it's because they've all been separated and dealing with their own issues but it's felt like much more is going on compared to the past where they mostly seem to hang around the cabin waiting for stuff to happen. Understandable being that it's winter and they're essentially snowed in, but still...

With all the debate over supernatural vs psychological, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the overhead shot of Lottie's compound appearing to be laid out in the shape of The Symbol. I won't weigh in one way or the other, I'm basically just enjoying the ride but...that has to mean something, right?!🤣 That said, the slow burn is starting to go cold, hopefully the rumors are true the next three really pick it up.

That’s just Lottie. ;) 

The ending left me not really feeling like talking about the rest, for a couple of days. 

[monagatuna]

20 minutes ago, Stuckathome said:

Yes, I had the same thoughts, that there was no way she delivered such a healthy looking chubster. But, to be fair, newborns on film are rarely actual newborn size. 

So, what was the deal with Callie mentioning the cop's wonky balls? I didn't think they had ever actually hooked up, so how would she know that? Doesn't seem like something a guy would tell a woman he was flirting with that he never had any intention of showing off the goods to. The other cop's face seemed to confirm she was telling the truth, so.....? How did she know? I also found myself screaming, "lawyer up!" 

I figured she was bluffing about the balls, Hot Cop knew it, and she knew he knew it. Balls are weird looking, that's just a fact. Hot Cop probably knows it and doesn't want to hear any more about his partner's balls. Also, if she was supposed to have been a virgin before him, how many sets of balls could she have seen beforehand for comparison purposes?

[hoodooznoodooz]

Why did they name this episode “Qui”?

[AstridM]

2 hours ago, monagatuna said:

That baby was doomed from the get-go, honestly. Even if it had survived birth, even if Shauna had been given extra calories during her pregnancy, as Nat pointed out, she's been starving. How was she going to feed it? TW: loss of pregnancy

  Hide contents

I hate to say it but I think stillbirth is a mercy when the alternative is slowly starving to death, uncomfortable and freezing and surrounded by dying women.

Here's what I don't get, and why I think Shauna cracked well before rescue: she lost her best friend/lover's girlfriend and Jeff's kid. She's free of him. There's nothing tying them together. Even when they were screwing she didn't love him, and barely seemed to like him. So she then goes on to marry him and have his kid? Her guilt must have been chewing her up for years--either that or a misplaced desire to maintain a connection to the past you lost. No wonder she's such a mess now. 

And oh, my god, please, by all means, idiot family, discuss your crimes in loud arguments parked outside of the police station with the windows down. The only people more bumbling than this family are the police that they keep fooling.

And...is Callie underage? She seems like she's in her early 20s to me. She openly drinks at a bar, flirts with a cop who could easily find out her real age and refuse to engage with an underaged minor who's not able to drink. I get that stachecop is an idiot without scruples, but if he knew she was underage it was even stupider of him to go out with her, even if he did refuse to engage physically. I get that fake IDs are a thing, but it doesn't ring true to me. And if she is underage, why in the world would the cops have separated them? Shauna even calls them out for it, but then allows herself to be led away by Stachecop.

Also, did anyone else think that baby was HUGE, especially considering it was born to a starving teenage mother? That thing took up the entirety of Shauna's torso. That was a dead giveaway to me. No newborn is that big, not least one who's been shriveling up inside a starving mom for so long. I don't know the first thing about babies, but I'm pretty sure they're not toddler-sized right after birth. I'm glad they didn't have everyone eat it, though. There's a line you don't cross and the writers knew what the consequences would be if they'd written that in. 

Callie is definitely supposed to be underage- she’s still in high school. It doesn’t seem that unusual to me that she hangs out in bars from time to time, because I did the same thing in high school. And yes, the baby seemed huge. That was one of the (many) hints for the audience that it was part of a dream sequence. 

1 hour ago, Stuckathome said:

Yes, I had the same thoughts, that there was no way she delivered such a healthy looking chubster. But, to be fair, newborns on film are rarely actual newborn size. 

So, what was the deal with Callie mentioning the cop's wonky balls? I didn't think they had ever actually hooked up, so how would she know that? Doesn't seem like something a guy would tell a woman he was flirting with that he never had any intention of showing off the goods to. The other cop's face seemed to confirm she was telling the truth, so.....? How did she know? I also found myself screaming, "lawyer up!" 

Callie never had sex with the cop. She was just bluffing. Kevyn already knows that “jay” was inappropriately hanging out with an underaged girl and bought her alcohol, so it wasn’t a stretch. 

49 minutes ago, monagatuna said:

I figured she was bluffing about the balls, Hot Cop knew it, and she knew he knew it. Balls are weird looking, that's just a fact. Hot Cop probably knows it and doesn't want to hear any more about his partner's balls. Also, if she was supposed to have been a virgin before him, how many sets of balls could she have seen beforehand for comparison purposes?

Lots of balls available to see online for anyone interested, lol. 

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, Daltrey said:

With all the debate over supernatural vs psychological, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the overhead shot of Lottie's compound appearing to be laid out in the shape of The Symbol. I won't weigh in one way or the other, I'm basically just enjoying the ride but...that has to mean something, right?!🤣 That said, the slow burn is starting to go cold, hopefully the rumors are true the next three really pick it up.

It means Lottie gave her landscaper specific instructions!

2 hours ago, monagatuna said:

And...is Callie underage? She seems like she's in her early 20s to me. She openly drinks at a bar, flirts with a cop who could easily find out her real age and refuse to engage with an underaged minor who's not able to drink. I get that stachecop is an idiot without scruples, but if he knew she was underage it was even stupider of him to go out with her, even if he did refuse to engage physically. I get that fake IDs are a thing, but it doesn't ring true to me. And if she is underage, why in the world would the cops have separated them? Shauna even calls them out for it, but then allows herself to be led away by Stachecop.

She's 15 or 16, iirc. There's several clear references to her being in high school--and not yet a senior either.

2 hours ago, monagatuna said:

Also, did anyone else think that baby was HUGE, especially considering it was born to a starving teenage mother? That thing took up the entirety of Shauna's torso. That was a dead giveaway to me. No newborn is that big, not least one who's been shriveling up inside a starving mom for so long. I don't know the first thing about babies, but I'm pretty sure they're not toddler-sized right after birth. I'm glad they didn't have everyone eat it, though. There's a line you don't cross and the writers knew what the consequences would be if they'd written that in. 

Yes, I know that newborns on TV, if they're using a real baby, is always too old and big, but they seemed to be shoving it in our face as a clue that of course this wasn't the baby she just had.

1 hour ago, Stuckathome said:

So, what was the deal with Callie mentioning the cop's wonky balls? I didn't think they had ever actually hooked up, so how would she know that? Doesn't seem like something a guy would tell a woman he was flirting with that he never had any intention of showing off the goods to. The other cop's face seemed to confirm she was telling the truth, so.....? How did she know? I also found myself screaming, "lawyer up!" 

Callie was definitely bluffing. But my god, what is Shauna's and everyone's problem with not listening to Misty's simple advice on this? None of them had to talk to the police at all. She wrote it right there on the cookie!!

[meep.meep]

On 5/6/2023 at 4:30 PM, BitterApple said:

I'm on several forums that discuss this show and a recurring complaint has been that the culmination of Shauna's pregnancy was "anti-climactic." I'm respectful of all opinions, but I'm also scratching my head a little. 

We've known since the beginning of the show that the baby doesn't live. The  theories that Wilderness Baby was Adam or Lisa or left behind in the woods were always far-fetched. Shauna went through her entire pregnancy starving, malnourished and receiving no medical care. Her inexperienced teenage friends delivered her baby. Wouldn't a stillbirth be the most realistic and logical result? Even if the baby survived the delivery, it likely would've died early in infancy, so the resolution of the storyline is still the same. I'm curious as to what viewers were expecting?

 

They wanted either Rosemary's Baby (glowing eyes and horns), or for everyone else to eat it, which turned out to be one of Shauna's dreams.  It's clear that neither of those was likely to happen.

Since the producers wanted to use a real baby who would cry, they had to use one older than a newborn.  It looked about 3 months old to me.  I can accept that.  For some reason Ben's apartment + cabin freaked me out.

[blixie]

Quote

that was a dead giveaway to me. No newborn is that big, 

Not in real life but on tv they always cast giant babies that are clearly 3-6 months old for newborns, so it's never a signal to me since it's common.

Side bar: I actually saw a gigantor baby out to eat last year, not even kidding the baby could not have been more than 6 months and was a full 3 feet tall and was over 20 pounds. The mom and dad were both over 6 feet tall so it tracked but wild to see a baby that young and that big. 

[peachmangosteen]

20 minutes ago, blixie said:

Not in real life but on tv they always cast giant babies that are clearly 3-6 months old for newborns, so it's never a signal to me since it's common.

Thank you. TV shows pretty much exclusively use 6 month olds as newborns. Unless they use a doll (or sometimes just a blanket lol) but that wouldn't have worked here.

[Trillian]

6 hours ago, Stuckathome said:

So, what was the deal with Callie mentioning the cop's wonky balls? I didn't think they had ever actually hooked up, so how would she know that? Doesn't seem like something a guy would tell a woman he was flirting with that he never had any intention of showing off the goods to. The other cop's face seemed to confirm she was telling the truth, so.....? How did she know?

Maybe she ran into a friend of his in the elevator who talked about an accident with a pencil while playing basketball? It worked for Sandra Bullock. 

[Brn2bwild]

One reason I didn't immediately think the baby was a fakeout/dream sequence was because it would be very keeping with this show to improbably have the baby be born healthy.  Javi somehow managed to survive for two months in the freezing cold and grow two feet.  If the "wilderness" truly had a role for the baby, it would make it so the baby lived despite everything.

[KaveDweller]

9 hours ago, monagatuna said:

And...is Callie underage? She seems like she's in her early 20s to me. She openly drinks at a bar, flirts with a cop who could easily find out her real age and refuse to engage with an underaged minor who's not able to drink. I get that stachecop is an idiot without scruples, but if he knew she was underage it was even stupider of him to go out with her, even if he did refuse to engage physically. I get that fake IDs are a thing, but it doesn't ring true to me. And if she is underage, why in the world would the cops have separated them? Shauna even calls them out for it, but then allows herself to be led away by Stachecop.

Callie is in high school, so she is definitely underage. The cop knew that and was hanging out with her to get her to talk, but that is why he refused to kiss her. It is pretty shady, but if they were just doing it to get leads and not actually using that info on the stand, I guess it is allowed? 

But considering she was underage, the cops should not have been allowed to question her in the station by herself.

8 hours ago, monagatuna said:

I figured she was bluffing about the balls, Hot Cop knew it, and she knew he knew it. Balls are weird looking, that's just a fact. Hot Cop probably knows it and doesn't want to hear any more about his partner's balls. Also, if she was supposed to have been a virgin before him, how many sets of balls could she have seen beforehand for comparison purposes?

Well, she definitely wasn't a virgin, but I agree she was bluffing. She basically said as much and was telling Kevin she was prepared to go on the stand and talk in detail about the other guy's supposedly weird balls to get a jury to believe her. Short of having the other guy pulling down his pants to try and say his balls aren't weird, there's not much they can do to counter it.

[Thalia]

8 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Why did they name this episode “Qui”?

"Qui" is French for "who."   (I guess it is French, since Lottie was singing Frere Jacques to the baby.)  I'm too tired to figure out the exact "who" is supposed to be in this episode.  The baby?  The dark force in the woods? 

I rewatched the episode today and this time I noticed the contents of Misty's purse when the cult member took her personal items:  binoculars, handcuffs, brass knuckles, and a hypodermic.  Along with a selection of jellies from the farmer's market.  :-) 

I'm not sure where to discuss the little cast discussions that Showtime airs right after the broadcast episode.  Sophie Nelisse gave a hint of what might happen with Shauna in the next few episodes when she said 

Spoiler

With the loss of baby (after already losing Jackie), Sophie's "sadness is going to shift into anger with nothing to grasp onto to just stay sane." 

 

[hoodooznoodooz]

14 hours ago, AstridM said:

I doubt it since a large portion of the audience watches primarily for the adult stars, imo. 

I agree. But I like seeing the dynamic before the traumatic experiences.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Who’s writing the episode descriptions this season? They are more creative.

[Shermie]

On 5/6/2023 at 7:15 AM, JenE4 said:

There have been a number of wild and surprising deaths that may have been accidental or could potentially be explained by being “caused by the evil spirit”—from the small plane just exploding in the sky, Jackie’s body being frozen then slow roasted, Misty’s bestie falling off the cliff, and now the baby being stillborn. None of them were officially a sacrifice to the spirit, but maybe the evil spirit sacrificed them on its own? 

Or maybe the plane exploded because it was old and damaged and the pilot was inexperienced, Jackie slow roasted because she was covered in a thick blanket of snow with coals simmering beneath her, Crystal fell of the cliff because she stepped backwards off a cliff, and the baby was stillborn because it was malnourished for 8 months.

On 5/6/2023 at 1:22 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I think the supernatural vs. natural element of the show always has been and always will be just 2 ways of looking at the same thing.

This. It’s like when someone survives a car accident and says that God or a guardian angel was watching over them (never mind that if someone else was killed in the same accident, why didn’t God care to watch over that person too? I hate that comment). It’s about how the person experiencing something interprets it.

As long as enough things happen that work in Lottie’s favour (Javi is back, Shauna survived childbirth, etc), she will be seen by some of the Yellowjackets as having some kind of power.

[Stuckathome]

Oh, and can I just say----WTF is Tai's wife? Still in a coma? Wouldn't the press be eating this up, newly elected official in horrible crash, wife in serious/critical condition and she vanishes? Plus, where is Sammy? And for the love of God, is Steve the dog safe? 

[Cranberry]

7 minutes ago, Stuckathome said:

And for the love of God, is Steve the dog safe? 

And who's watching Caligula?

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

And who's watching Caligula?

Not speaking from experience, but I would think a bird would be fine in a cage with food and water. Tai's the only one with dependents--Sammy who's other is in the hospital (I think he's with Simone's parents) and...WHAT ABOUT STEVE??