S04.E04: it takes a psycho

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Damn . . . 

Original air date 2023.04.30

[Michichick]

Oh my God. This episode left me feeling so disturbed. I hope Gene’s son isn’t dead.

 

I feel awful about Cristobal.

[Galileo908]

That Fuches beating was a long time coming.

Oh man, they're taking shots at Marvel this week. Sian Heder is directing the Avengers stand-in.

I love just how happy Hank's crew was at the sand and at the break room. That scene with everyone getting sucked into the sand was so tense, I was so glad to see that he and Cristobal got out alive. Somehow. God, that scene at the end was so heartbreaking. Last week I cheered for Hank setting that boundary, now it was Cristobal. But man, did I scream at the end there. Heart...broken. The moment Hank said "you know too much," Cristobal wasn't gonna last. We saw death flags on him the moment we met him, but man what an awful way to go.

Aww man, knew Gene was gonna shoot the wrong person the moment he pulled out his prop gun (which worked this time). 

Seriously, Barry didn't need to be in this episode at all, his specter was just hovering over all the characters and made them make their worst choices. Sally going with Barry, Hank killing Cristobal, Gene shooting his son. I was anxious this whole episode, then BAM, he shows up in the last thirty seconds. Well done.

2 minutes ago, Michichick said:

I hope Gene’s son isn’t dead.

Going with "we didn't see a corpse/we didn't see him die, he isn't dead."

Edited May 1, 2023 by Galileo908

[sistermagpie]

Wow, this show just goes there. I cared about every relationship that got shot in this ep! And so man great shots. I especially loved the one where Sally stepped in front of her student. And the near-sand-death of Christobel was fantastic. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Sally looks like Sian Heder. That had to be intentional. 

[Irlandesa]

Oh man.  I knew Barry was going to shoot his son.  He never once considered that Barry wouldn't turn on the light if he were coming to kill him. 

And Cristobal had to know, right?  He had to know he was choosing death. 

Sally trying to steal the part from the actress was terrific.  I especially liked how she slightly stood in front of the actress while doing the scene.  I do not know that Sally is so far gone that she'd run away with Barry.  And I don't love that it appears to skip a few years. 

The fear over everyone's story even without Barry was so well done.

And there were some moments that made me laugh out loud.  Like at the beginning when the one cop car crashed into the other.  But I think my favorite line out of all of them was when the cops raided the Dave & Busters thinking they'd find Cristobal and Hank but all they found was regular fans and "some guy in a Houston Oilers hat which is the most confusing...."

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

And Cristobal had to know, right?  He had to know he was choosing death. 

Not sure.

7 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I do not know that Sally is so far gone that she'd run away with Barry.  And I don't love that it appears to skip a few years. 

I was sure that was just Barry imagination. No?

8 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

And there were some moments that made me laugh out loud.  Like at the beginning when the one cop car crashed into the other. 

The cop car rear ending the other, parked cop car was the only comic relief for me. 

1 hour ago, Galileo908 said:

1 hour ago, Michichick said:

I hope Gene’s son isn’t dead.

Going with "we didn't see a corpse/we didn't see him die, he isn't dead."

It looked like Gene's son got shot in the heart and he was laying there with his eyes open — which equals death to me.

[shapeshifter]

The Chechens dissing the “rainbow” gang, and Hank reacting the Cristobel’s use of the word “legit” like it was garbage, seemed kind of like a commentary on worldwide social entropy. And there was more than enough violence in and out of the prison. I wonder what Bill Hader and Alec Berg will say about the symbolism — if anything — in interviews.

When Gene was sitting in the chair with the gun, I heard a PSA in my head about the likelihood of getting shot if you have a gun in the home. I was sure Gene was just going to shoot himself in the upper thigh or something. But, no. It was exactly like those PSAs.

[MrWhyt]

I was so worried for Cristobal in the sand, actually breathed a sigh of relief when Hank got him out. But then he had to develop something resembling a conscience. 

[thuganomics85]

Holy time jump, Barry!  And, well, everything else that happened tonight...

Deep down, I suspected NoHo and Cristobal were doomed: especially when it seemed clear that NoHo was going back to his more colder ways each episode.  Even then, I did not see this playing out.  NoHo actually goes back to his original Chechen gang and lets them kill their new squad and even almost kill Cristobal, although that part was unintentional and he did save him.  But then, Cristobal sees what NoHo has become and can't love a man like that, and decides to leave.  But, of course, there was no way the Chechens were going to let him leave alive.  NoHo knew this.  Bill Hader, Alec Berg, and the rest of the writing team knew this.  And I wonder if Cristobal knew this as well?  Either way, while NoHo didn't pull the trigger and didn't want it to happen, he basically let his supposed love of his life die.  Because, in the end, he wanted the power and arguably safety that came with going back to his old ways.  A tragic end to this story and I don't see NoHo ever coming back from this (assuming we will still follow his story.)  Anthony Carrigan and Michael Irby destroyed it here.

Heh, yeah, the stuff with Sian Heder was definitely this show's little dig/homage to how award winning director/writers get caught up in the superhero; especially Marvel; game, after their initial hits and become part of that wheel.  Don't get me wrong: I love myself a good superhero film; hell, even enjoy some of the not so good ones as well; but I definitely get the whole idea of it being a sight to behold when the likes of Ryan Coogler, Chloe Zhao, arguably Taika Waititi, and other award winning artists are following their indie darlings with big budgeted CGI-fests.  Interesting that it sounded like that one manager had an idea of hiring Sally and while she might not have automatically gone back to where she use to be, it could have been a step in the right direction.  But, instead, she clearly decided not to go through with it.

Fuches gets the absolute crap kicked out of him, but I'm guessing judging from his final scene, all of the other prisoners respect him now?  I can see this leading to somewhere interesting.

Speaking of tragedy, if Gene really did accidentally kill his son, that is going to be heartbreaking.

It's now a true Dave & Busters experience if you have witnessed (or participated) in at least one police raid!

Suspect Jim Moss will still play a part in all of this.

And then there is the end.  Barry and Sally really do run off together and they might actually have a son now?  Man, I have absolutely no clue how these final episodes will play out.

Despite the lack of, well, Barry, this might be one of the best episodes of Barry yet which is really saying something.

[PinkRibbons]

I'm not sure I understand the connection that happened in Sally's head that had her running off with Barry and ditching acting entirely. She just got a really decent chance at coming back to it (not to mention serious money to help her lead up to reentering the acting scene) and her belief in herself as an artiste has been so firm I don't quite see what if anything else she would ever consider doing. So what was the thing that made her decide, "fuck it I'm done"?

(I do make a point of listening to The Prestige Podcast immediately after each episode and it was said that she knew she was out as soon as she heard about Barry having escaped, that when she said goodbye to her actress student, it was actually a goodbye to the whole industry. I still don't quite get what snapped in her where acting is concerned.)

Cristobal was introduced as a pretty dangerous crime boss; although in hindsight they really emphasized his interest in being enlightened and cooperative. That being said I find it hard to believe he could be so naive as to think partnering up with every gang in LA would lead to a legitimate business. Guess he wasn't meant to be a crime lord, especially thinking he could just walk away from it all. Was it just me or did anyone else not notice/hear the killing gunshot? That was an interesting choice. They did do a bit of a fake-out with the Chechen guy who walked in to apologize to Hank being dressed so similarly.

Never thought I'd feel sorry for Fuches, but man that was some convincing pain acting.

I think (or hope) Gene just winged his son. To me it seemed like he hit the shoulder. Looks like from here on out we'll be 8 years in the future (again, that's the number they gave in the podcast). My guess is Noho Hank rules the LA Underworld, Fuches holds some power in prison, and Gene is hopefully not raising his orphaned grandchild. If Jim Moss is still alive I'm sure he's still looking for Barry.

 

 

[Fake Jan Brady]

1 hour ago, PinkRibbons said:

I'm not sure I understand the connection that happened in Sally's head that had her running off with Barry and ditching acting entirely. She just got a really decent chance at coming back to it (not to mention serious money to help her lead up to reentering the acting scene) and her belief in herself as an artiste has been so firm I don't quite see what if anything else she would ever consider doing. So what was the thing that made her decide, "fuck it I'm done"?

Because of Sian Heder's "if I could get that [Sally's talent] coming out of that [Kristen's looks]" and Kristen's agent telling Sally she might be considered for roles she's "appropriate" for. Plus the whole 'Joplin' experience. Barry will adore her if Hollywood won't.

Anthony Carrigan deserves an Emmy [true generally, but specifically for this episode].

[arc]

LAPD raiding the Dave & Busters where Hank and Cristobal first launched the sand venture was outstanding. I greatly enjoy how incompetent the cops are on this show.

ahhhh, I actually know the location of Hank and Cristobal's new gang headquarters. In real life it's an abandoned factory or something. There was a pop-up art exhibition (glorified Instagram spot) there a few years ago called The 14th Factory.

8 hours ago, Galileo908 said:

The moment Hank said "you know too much," Cristobal wasn't gonna last.

Even earlier, when Andrei said that "as long as you are part of Hank's family, you are part of ours." I didn't expect the payoff on that to be so sudden, though. In a way, it strongly echoes Chris' murder from season 1, and now I wonder if they picked those two names to also resemble each other. Chris forced an ultimatum on Barry (let me go to the police) and Barry responded with murder; Cristobal forced an ultimatum on Hank and -- well, to be honest, I don't know why Hank didn't make the threat of gang execution more explicit. But to me it didn't seem like Cristobal chose to die right then and there. To me he was acting like he was leaving Hank, not leaving life. Maybe I'm misreading it. Still, I think that if Cristobal had chosen death and a total breakup with Hank, he would have chosen to force Hank to witness the murder.

3 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Looks like from here on out we'll be 8 years in the future (again, that's the number they gave in the podcast).

Wait, that was real??? Not a dream sequence? How in the world would Sally and Barry get out of her apartment without Jim Moss noticing??

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by arc

[Pike Ludwell]

I believe the time jump is real and not Barry's imagination. They suddenly, surprising everyone, jump a few years into the future like they did in the final few episodes of Better Call Saul. I think the show will stay in that time period except for a few brief flashbacks to explain things.

There are people still looking for Barry and that will be the drama - will they find him, and how? And we'll get to see Barry trying to be a good person again, with Sally and child. So this time jump is brilliant!

[shapeshifter]

On 5/1/2023 at 6:56 AM, arc said:

In a way, it strongly echoes Chris' murder from season 1, and now I wonder if they picked those two names to also resemble each other. Chris forced an ultimatum on Barry (let me go to the police) and Barry responded with murder; Cristobal forced an ultimatum on Hank

Interesting about the Chris - Cristobal name similarities, whether accidentally or on purpose.

 

On 5/1/2023 at 3:41 AM, PinkRibbons said:

Looks like from here on out we'll be 8 years in the future (again, that's the number they gave in the podcast).

On 5/1/2023 at 6:56 AM, arc said:

Wait, that was real??? Not a dream sequence? How in the world would Sally and Barry get out of her apartment without Jim Moss noticing??

Okay. So I found the podcast (here) and listened to all 40 minutes. The relevant part to the flash forward is, not surprisingly, in the last 10 minutes. I'm pretty sure it's either in Barry's or Sally's imagination, or maybe even a compilation of both their imaginations. But we'll see. They were careful not to spoil, but sometimes that confuses.

And yes, Anthony Carrigan gets all the Emmys for his breakdown and cry scene. In the podcast, Bill Hader says they shot that scene 8 times! So, while he's waiting for his Emmy, Anthony Carrigan also deserves all the chamomile tea.

Edited May 2, 2023 by shapeshifter

[heatherchandler]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

 

It looked like Gene's son got shot in the heart and he was laying there with his eyes open — which equals death to me.

It looked like his shoulder, but who knows.

I thought for sure that was a dream sequence of Barry’s at the end, like the dancing at the wedding in the first episode.

[Irlandesa]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

It looked like Gene's son got shot in the heart and he was laying there with his eyes open — which equals death to me.

He was not dead when we last saw him.  He was on the ground next to the bag of food, and his head was even raised at first before he put it down.  He was also breathing heavily/taking deep breaths. 

 

[carrps]

Yeah, Gene's son is not dead. Yet.

The funniest line for me was when that bad actress's agent called Sally the "Entitled Vagina" instead of the "Entitled C-word."

[Phishbulb]

I think he said "Untitled Vagina Woman" 😄

Edited May 1, 2023 by Phishbulb

[cpcathy]

Anthony Carrigan deserves the Emmy, I was actually disappointed when Henry Winkler won for season one. 

[aghst]

9 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

I'm not sure I understand the connection that happened in Sally's head that had her running off with Barry and ditching acting entirely. She just got a really decent chance at coming back to it (not to mention serious money to help her lead up to reentering the acting scene) and her belief in herself as an artiste has been so firm I don't quite see what if anything else she would ever consider doing. So what was the thing that made her decide, "fuck it I'm done"?

(I do make a point of listening to The Prestige Podcast immediately after each episode and it was said that she knew she was out as soon as she heard about Barry having escaped, that when she said goodbye to her actress student, it was actually a goodbye to the whole industry. I still don't quite get what snapped in her where acting is concerned.)

Cristobal was introduced as a pretty dangerous crime boss; although in hindsight they really emphasized his interest in being enlightened and cooperative. That being said I find it hard to believe he could be so naive as to think partnering up with every gang in LA would lead to a legitimate business. Guess he wasn't meant to be a crime lord, especially thinking he could just walk away from it all. Was it just me or did anyone else not notice/hear the killing gunshot? That was an interesting choice. They did do a bit of a fake-out with the Chechen guy who walked in to apologize to Hank being dressed so similarly.

Never thought I'd feel sorry for Fuches, but man that was some convincing pain acting.

I think (or hope) Gene just winged his son. To me it seemed like he hit the shoulder. Looks like from here on out we'll be 8 years in the future (again, that's the number they gave in the podcast). My guess is Noho Hank rules the LA Underworld, Fuches holds some power in prison, and Gene is hopefully not raising his orphaned grandchild. If Jim Moss is still alive I'm sure he's still looking for Barry.

 

 

 

I guess Sally just wasn't that excited about acting any more.  She did try to audition for that director right there.  And she had a good job offer but for whatever reason she didn't find it fulfilling.

She was already jaded about the industry when she found that that Amazon booked a role just based on her looks.  Probably enraged her that she was in a movie with a director she respected while she had to hope for crumbs.

Barry offers excitement from the hum drum and hypocrisy of Hollywood?  She was already feeling burned about what happened to Joplin and to see Natalie copy her ideas and get a big show after the failure of Joplin.

Then she gets burned on social media for her reaction.

 

I'm still having a difficult time with NoHo's turn as a heavy.  He played at being a gangster in the first two seasons.  He worried more about the superficial aspects of being a gangster, like having a nice stash house.

Now he wants to be the big boss?

OK, he went all the way down to Ecuador to rescue Cristobal but ends up choosing being the big boss of the Chenchen mob in LA, which is kind of a joke in itself, since everyone knows it's the Armenians and the Bloods and Crips, not to mention the Mexican and Central American gangs and cartels.

Over the supposed love of his life?

Maybe it's the least worst way to wrap up Hank's arc.  But now as boss his demeanor is more grim than comic, lighthearted, silly.

Yeah it would be a tragic end for Gene if he ends up killing his son, who was brining over Gene's favorite takeout.  Lot of tragedy in his life.  I liked Gene more in earlier seasons, when he was this full of himself grifter conning all these aspiring actors and the way he kept pursuing Janice.  Then we learn he was a toxic asshole when he was working regularly in the industry when he was younger.

Then last season, he grows more somber after learning that Barry killed Janice, though he goes hard to try t impress his former flame, giving her all the profits from his absurd TV show.

So Hank and Gene, both funny characters, become more serious and dark.

What happened to the comedy?

I guess both their lives were touched by Barry and made worse for it is the message Hader is trying to convey?

Too much of a copout, yes Barry has too much blood on his hands to end up having any positive aspects but him ruining lives of those people he actually liked and loved, not just the victims and survivors of his murders?

 

[PurpleTentacle]

I'm very sad about Cristobal. Count me to the ones who think he didn't know what leaving Hank meant. He gave no indication that he knew that he was going to be dead soon. He literally said "You are going to let me drive away from here and we are never going to speak to each other ever again."

Also I think had he known, he would have played along for a bit and then escaped at some point. What would have been the point to just let himself get killed?

I know there have been quite a few side character deaths on this show. But this one was so late in the game and kind of unnecessary, that I kinda get the feeling of "bury your gays". It's probably not the writers intention, but if you have so little representation of loving same sex relationships every instance hurts.

8 hours ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

Because of Sian Heder's "if I could get that [Sally's talent] coming out of that [Kristen's looks]" and Kristen's agent telling Sally she might be considered for roles she's "appropriate" for. Plus the whole 'Joplin' experience. Barry will adore her if Hollywood won't.

I can see how that can come across kinda shitty, but there is such a thing as being the right type for a character. Charlie Day can't play Conan the Barbarian and Sally can't play an amazon.

I'm sure there are some meaty roles for Sally out there.

I'm not sure if that is telling us about Sally's negative headspace at the moment, or if we are really meant to believe that this is unfair and some kind of discrimination.

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And yes, Anthony Carrigan gets all the Emmys for his breakdown and cry scene.

There is going to be some stiff competition with the Last of Us. Sure Anthony Carrigan was very good, but have you seen what Nick Offerman did on that show?

[arc]

I know Hank was worried about the Chechens last episode, but I think he only flipped after hearing about Barry’s escape. That would tie it in with Gene’s story and Sally’s story, that Barry was the catalyst for Hank’s turning point as well. I wonder why Hank left that out of his reasoning to Cristobal. He only said the Chechens would be more loyal than the gang coalition, but not that he wanted some protection from Barry.

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Then we learn he was a toxic asshole when he was working regularly in the industry when he was younger.

“He brought a loaded gun to a Full House audition!”

That’s my favorite line, ever.

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by heatherchandler

[shapeshifter]

21 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I'm very sad about Cristobal. Count me to the ones who think he didn't know what leaving Hank meant. He gave no indication that he knew that he was going to be dead soon. He literally said "You are going to let me drive away from here and we are never going to speak to each other ever again." Also I think had he known, he would have played along for a bit and then escaped at some point. What would have been the point to just let himself get killed?

Just in case this is not a purely rhetorical question:
Cristobal had just been rescued from the sand pit by Hank.
So Cristobal might be thinking that Hank will rescue him again because Cristobal believes Hank really does love him.
And, if Hank does not save his life, Cristobal might think his death will bring Hank to his senses and save Hank from giving up on their dream to go "legit" with a rainbow coalition. 

This is sort of a complex version of "if I can't have you, I don't want to live," except in this case, it's more like: "if I can't have the kinder, gentler Hank, then I don't want to live."

Or:
Maybe Cristobal just thought the Chechens had left and he could just drive off.

 

3 minutes ago, arc said:

I know Hank was worried about the Chechens last episode, but I think he only flipped after hearing about Barry’s escape. That would tie it in with Gene’s story and Sally’s story, that Barry was the catalyst for Hank’s turning point as well. I wonder why Hank left that out of his reasoning to Cristobal. He only said the Chechens would be more loyal than the gang coalition, but not that he wanted some protection from Barry.

I missed that. I thought Hank flipped because the Chechens were going to kill him if he didn't slaughter his crew and come work for them. No?

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

What happened to the comedy?

I am also missing it.  This show needs that humor.

[Michichick]

48 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

There is going to be some stiff competition with the Last of Us. Sure Anthony Carrigan was very good, but have you seen what Nick Offerman did on that show?

The shows are in different categories, so Carrigan and Offerman wouldn’t compete against each other.

[PurpleTentacle]

Just now, Michichick said:

The shows are in different categories, so Carrigan and Offerman wouldn’t compete against each other.

Are they? Has that been announced yet?

I don't see how they could be. It's not like you can put The Last of Us into "limited series" with a season two with the same characters on the way. For limited series it can be the same actors in another season, but it has to be different characters.

Or are they categorising Barry as comedy? Because that would be a massive stretch, especially with this season.

14 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Just in case this is not a purely rhetorical question:
Cristobal had just been rescued from the sand pit by Hank.
So Cristobal might be thinking that Hank will rescue him again because Cristobal believes Hank really does love him.
And, if Hank does not save his life, Cristobal might think his death will bring Hank to his senses and save Hank from giving up on their dream to go "legit" with a rainbow coalition. 

This is sort of a complex version of "if I can't have you, I don't want to live," except in this case, it's more like: "if I can't have the kinder, gentler Hank, then I don't want to live."

Seems far fetched, considering what he actually said on screen.

15 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Cristobal just thought the Chechens had left and he could just drive off.

That seems like the real explaination, yes.

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, arc said:

Wait, that was real??? Not a dream sequence? How in the world would Sally and Barry get out of her apartment without Jim Moss noticing??

 

Yeah, I thought it was imaginary too. We already saw a bit of it in an earlier episode when the two of them were dancing together. 

I admit I was disappointed the ep didn't end with Barry's "Really?"

2 hours ago, aghst said:

 

I guess Sally just wasn't that excited about acting any more.  She did try to audition for that director right there.  And she had a good job offer but for whatever reason she didn't find it fulfilling.

I actually thought it was fulfilling in the moment where they said she was great, but then it went back to wanting the other woman she was discouraged again. But I didn't get that it was so bad she wanted to quit.

 

[Michichick]

26 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Or are they categorising Barry as comedy? Because that would be a massive stretch, especially with this season.

Barry has been in the comedy category in the past, so I have no reason to think that will change now.

Also, Variety seems to think Offerman would be guest actor in a drama. No idea if that’s accurate. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Michichick

[PurpleTentacle]

11 minutes ago, Michichick said:

Barry has been in the comedy category in the past, so I have no reason to think that will change now.

Well putting this show in its current form in the comedy category would be ridiculous, but I guess that hasn't stopped award shows before.

Edited May 1, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[iMonrey]

I'm taking the flash-forward at face value but I don't see how Barry and Sally could have escaped and started a new life together when so many people are after Barry. I wonder if maybe he turned himself in and the FBI honored their deal to put him and Sally into witness protection. 

The sand trap thing was intense. What a horrific way to die.

Quote

So Hank and Gene, both funny characters, become more serious and dark.

What happened to the comedy?

This show has always been a balancing act between drama and comedy. There is a tendency for these types of "dramedies" to get darker and more serious as they go along, from Buffy the Vampire Slayer all the way to Breaking Bad. I'm more willing to forgive it here since it's a half-hour show and only four seasons long, but the problem is that it doesn't get the kind of Emmy love it should because it doesn't fit neatly into either a comedy or drama category and I think voters get confused/conflicted.

Quote

There is going to be some stiff competition with the Last of Us. Sure Anthony Carrigan was very good, but have you seen what Nick Offerman did on that show?

I would except Nick Offerman to be in the "guest" role rather than supporting role since he was only on one episode. But also, as pointed out above, Barry is always nominated in the comedy category. 

[Irlandesa]

42 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Are they? Has that been announced yet?

No they won't compete against each other even if Barry switches to Drama (which I doubt it will.  I might be the only one but I see a lot of jokes still even if the show is more tense. ) 

Carrigan is going to be in supporting, assuming this wasn't his last episode.  And I believe Offerman was only in one episode of The Last of Us which would put him in the guest category.

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Also I think had he known, he would have played along for a bit and then escaped at some point. What would have been the point to just let himself get killed?

Another opinion where I seem to be in the minority but I think Cristobal has been around this too long to not know what would happen to him.  He probably didn't think Hank would kill him but I think he heard what "you know too much meant."  I just think he has been through so much truama with his wife's family and then falling down in the sand.  He was in a stupor and he wanted out.  Yet, without Hank, he has nowhere to go.  If he survived, he survived but he didn't have the strength to fight against his fate but he was too tired to go back to the old version of his life.

 

[shapeshifter]

35 minutes ago, Michichick said:

Barry has been in the comedy category in the past, so I have no reason to think that will change now

I assume Barry will retain it’s Comedy category designation because

1. The episodes mostly run around 30 minutes (which seems like an arbitrary measure of comedy vs drama to me, but traditions can be hard to undo), 
   and
2. Maybe because it’s the last season?

But I’m sure I recall some other show’s category being changed from either Comedy to Drama or vice versa, sometime in the last few years.🧐

I keep wanting to see a Dramedy category.

But after these last few episodes of Barry — especially with both Fuches and Barry getting beaten to a pulp by gangs of prison guards — I would vote to call the show a Drama instead of a Dramedy if they were changing its category and if my opinion counted.  
But my sense of humor isn’t that great.

Edited May 1, 2023 by shapeshifter

[sistermagpie]

13 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I might be the only one but I see a lot of jokes still even if the show is more tense. ) 

Me too. I've found this season funnier than the last one even. And this is the second time an adult has shot their child by accident. (Annabeth Gish, showing up this week on Succession as well!)

[Ottis]

This episode had either on-purpose fake outs or writing blind spots. I like to think these were intentionally misleading, but I'm not sure.

- I thought Sally was trying to steal the superhero role by acting in front of Sian, but then it looked like she took the high road and truly did help her one student.

- I thought Soho Hank had turned in Cristobal to the Columbians in order to get ahead alone, a betrayal that would have made SoHo unredeemable. But Cristobal lived, even though he was peeved, and Hank wanted to continue together (the fact Cristobal didn't, and what happened next, is a different matter).

- Gene shooting his son, well, that was purposefully predictable and another example of how feckless Gene is when others aren't setting him up for success.

- I have actually forgotten the point of Fuchs now.

What was with all the helicopter noises? Were they like oranges in The Godfather?

"That is one pissed off boy?" Because he yelled and wanted to fight? That didn't seem overly pissed off. But the point of Travis (and Frank) is Barry now has a kid with a temper, like he has?

 

2 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

There is going to be some stiff competition with the Last of Us. Sure Anthony Carrigan was very good, but have you seen what Nick Offerman did on that show?

Side note, but ... I don't know why Last of Us is a success. The commercials alone tell you exactly what kind of show it is and you can guess what sort of things happen. I love Barry because of all the surprises.

[Irlandesa]

2 minutes ago, Ottis said:

- I thought Sally was trying to steal the superhero role by acting in front of Sian, but then it looked like she took the high road and truly did help her one student.

Oh she did try, but I don't think it was her plan until she was there, with the director, with the opportunity to say the lines.  But when it didn't work, she went back to being a teacher.

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Ottis said:

- I thought Sally was trying to steal the superhero role by acting in front of Sian, but then it looked like she took the high road and truly did help her one student.

 

She absolutely did try, once she had the opportunity. She even turned around to face the director (and stepped in front of her, of course). It just didn't matter.

 

7 minutes ago, Ottis said:

"That is one pissed off boy?" Because he yelled and wanted to fight? That didn't seem overly pissed off. But the point of Travis (and Frank) is Barry now has a kid with a temper, like he has?

 

I think it's more just what Barry imagines having a kid would be like. Naturally he imagines fighting there too. Only in his fantasy he's the calm one who can talk him down.

[sjankis630]

13 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think it's more just what Barry imagines having a kid would be like. Naturally he imagines fighting there too. Only in his fantasy he's the calm one who can talk him down.

I still don't know what is going on. The fact that his son was fighting with the other kid because the kid was teasing him about not knowing about Call of Duty - a very popular and very violent online video game - lends more to the whole idea that Barry is trying to leave his past behind.

Could he have had a kid and then purposely kept that child from anything military or violent like his past life? Is this Barry's fantasy which doesn't seem likely to come true?

[sistermagpie]

21 minutes ago, sjankis630 said:

I still don't know what is going on. The fact that his son was fighting with the other kid because the kid was teasing him about not knowing about Call of Duty - a very popular and very violent online video game - lends more to the whole idea that Barry is trying to leave his past behind.

 

I assumed he was imagining the whole scenario, so he handled the kid fighting well, and the kid had never heard of Call of Duty because Barry kept him away from it successfully.

[carrps]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

- I thought Soho Hank had turned in Cristobal to the Columbians in order to get ahead alone, a betrayal that would have made SoHo unredeemable. But Cristobal lived, even though he was peeved, and Hank wanted to continue together (the fact Cristobal didn't, and what happened next, is a different matter).

Pedantic correction: NoHo Hank.

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, carrps said:

Pedantic correction: NoHo Hank.

But I think we can all agree that we want to meet this "SoHo Hank." 😁

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I assumed he was imagining the whole scenario, so he handled the kid fighting well, and the kid had never heard of Call of Duty because Barry kept him away from it successfully.

Quoting myself here to say

Spoiler

apparently I'm wrong and that really is a time jump eight years into the future.

 

[PurpleTentacle]

3 hours ago, Ottis said:

Side note, but ... I don't know why Last of Us is a success. The commercials alone tell you exactly what kind of show it is and you can guess what sort of things happen. I love Barry because of all the surprises.

Just because you don't get 20 mystery boxes thrown at you and surprised every 5 minutes, doesn't mean it's a bad show.

I recommend this video to break out of that mindset:

 

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I keep wanting to see a Dramedy category.

That would be fairer to actual comedies. The voters will always prefer dramitc acting to comedy acting, even though the later is at least as difficult as the former.

[cardigirl]

3 hours ago, Ottis said:

What was with all the helicopter noises? Were they like oranges in The Godfather?

Maybe. I thought the helicopter noises = Barry's influence over all the characters. Even when he wasn't there, he was still affecting their story.  So even though we didn't see Barry (until the very end), he was all over the episode. Brilliant. 

[cpcathy]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Maybe. I thought the helicopter noises = Barry's influence over all the characters. Even when he wasn't there, he was still affecting their story.  So even though we didn't see Barry (until the very end), he was all over the episode. Brilliant. 

Spot on, exactly what Bill Hader said.

[Galileo908]

15 hours ago, arc said:

LAPD raiding the Dave & Busters where Hank and Cristobal first launched the sand venture was outstanding. I greatly enjoy how incompetent the cops are on this show.

The detail that stuck out to the cops was someone wearing an Oilers hat.

[arc]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I missed that. I thought Hank flipped because the Chechens were going to kill him if he didn't slaughter his crew and come work for them. No?

Hank flipped offscreen. Last episode, he was somewhere between noncommittal to turning Batir down. What changed? Barry escaped. And then Hank fully threw in with the Chechens. (Although, didn’t Barry mow down a whole temple’s worth of not-very-skilled Chechens a couple of seasons ago? Did the elders finally send the really dangerous guys to LA after two failures?)

[Ottis]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But I think we can all agree that we want to meet this "SoHo Hank." 😁

LOL. He is the ritzier cousin from the toney south side. Dresses better than Noho, but isn't as kind. Expect to meet him in the finale!

15 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

She absolutely did try, once she had the opportunity. She even turned around to face the director (and stepped in front of her, of course). It just didn't matter.

No, I get that she did *try.* But then she ended up congratulating her student and telling her she was great. I don't buy that Sally, after trying to steal the role and being rejected, then has the poise and confidence to go back to her student and tell the student she was great. It seems more likely that Sally tried, that she may have been offered the role (or at least that door was opened), and she decided to support her student because after being screwed over herself for years, she didn't want to do that to her first student. That conclusion would also track with Sally's disinterest in Rick's offer to help channel students to Sally. He witnessed Sally's behavior *and* acting and thinks she could be an actual success at both teaching and (eventually) acting. She barely paid attention to him, because Sally wanted to decide her own path and not be part of a system that she dislikes (except for fame!). Or maybe I just always try to find the good in people, even on Barry.

12 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Maybe. I thought the helicopter noises = Barry's influence over all the characters. Even when he wasn't there, he was still affecting their story.  So even though we didn't see Barry (until the very end), he was all over the episode. Brilliant. 

I'm going to have to rewatch, but while this is fantastic, it seems like it would mean the helicopter sound would have played over almost all of the episode. It only played at key points. Was it tied to making decisions? I'll have to look again.

 

 

[shapeshifter]

12 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Maybe. I thought the helicopter noises = Barry's influence over all the characters. Even when he wasn't there, he was still affecting their story.  So even though we didn't see Barry (until the very end), he was all over the episode. Brilliant. 

10 minutes ago, Ottis said:

I'm going to have to rewatch, but while this is fantastic, it seems like it would mean the helicopter sound would have played over almost all of the episode. It only played at key points. Was it tied to making decisions? I'll have to look again.

I thought the helicopter noises were signals to the viewers and possibly to the characters that law enforcement was close to finding Barry. However, the after-show podcast implies a somewhat different interpretation, although maybe just an additional meaning?

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by shapeshifter