S44.E09: Under the Wing of a Dragon

[GenerationX]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Honestly I don't know that this game is salvageable anymore, it's so manipulated at this point.

That it is.  They'll never lack for contestants, though, because absolutely every element and milestone in the game is now a "bucket list item".

[eel21788]

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

It would be crazy if she makes it to FTC and shows the jury her idol that she never needed.  (Didn't someone else do that once?  And didn't that person win?)

Marianne

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

As fun as it would have been to see Jamie play the fake idol, it’s also fun to think how pissed off she must have been watching her idol sail off to Ponderosa with Kane. Bon voyage, idol!

1 hour ago, Fretful said:

Smiling Jaimie could get dragged to the end where she is shocked, shocked, shocked that she doesn't win.

Not much actually seems to piss Jaime off. And however her time in this season plays out (I'm not spoiled), she is joyfully posting clips and memes on her Instagram, so I don't think she minds anything that happened. So anyone hoping for a big display of shock/devastation/anger is likely to be disappointed.

Plus, the day this episode aired, she was apparently visiting Disneyland sampling lots of tasty snacks, so however she might have felt at the time, she certainly seems pretty unbothered after the fact 😄

[eel21788]

1 hour ago, Fretful said:

I always wonder what would happen if EVERYONE sat out the immunity challenge for the rice.  That way, they all make the same sacrifice for the same reward.  I'm sure it would make Jeff's head explode, and whoever came up with the plan would get the worst edit ever. 

At TC, I was thinking they should all write down Jeff's name just to watch production crap out a load of bricks. 

[eel21788]

16 hours ago, cdnalor said:

When Jeff mentioned the tarp they have at camp during the rice negotiation, did anyone else think he might be hinting that they could trade it in lieu of a fourth person sitting out?  It's been done before.

I was more worried that the people who said they'd grant immunity to the people who sat out would actually follow through with it. Then we would have had another situation where 5 people had immunity, and there were only 4 people who were eligible to get votes. 

[Drogo]

4 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

I was more worried that the people who said they'd grant immunity to the people who sat out would actually follow through with it. Then we would have had another situation where 5 people had immunity, and there were only 4 people who were eligible to get votes. 

And where the four competitors would be competing to receive… the exact same benefit they could’ve gotten by agreeing to sit out.

[HurricaneVal]

I am very sad that we don't get to see the denouement of Jaime's fake idol. 

Frannie and Carolyn should team up together, it would be a joy to see the two of them picking off the rest, one by one. 

[sara416]

1 hour ago, North of Eden said:

Her admitting to having been a drunk who needed a drink before they could pull themselves together to function sounds pretty tragic to me.

I've been wondering about her DOC for a while now, did she specify that it was alcohol? I missed some of it. Unpopular opinion, but Carolyn bugs the shit out of me. I worked in substance abuse as a therapist for a long time and she reminds me of so many of the people I worked with. I know I am only seeing snippets of her on tv, but she really seems like a "dry drunk" where she is free from her substance but the behaviors are still there. 

[seacliffsal]

1 hour ago, Fretful said:

 

I always wonder what would happen if EVERYONE sat out the immunity challenge for the rice.  That way, they all make the same sacrifice for the same reward.  I'm sure it would make Jeff's head explode, and whoever came up with the plan would get the worst edit ever.  

I think this scenario would be like in the Hunger Games when Katniss and Peeta threatened to eat the poisonous berries-they 'broke' the games and were going to be punished for it!

There was a challenge a couple of season ago in which those who sat out received automatic immunity and only those who participated in the challenge (and lost) were eligible to be voted out.  Anyone else remember this?  The producers really need to just stop with throwing any and every idea into the game.  As a loyal viewer since season 1 episode 1, it is becoming too much work to watch as I now have to keep track of too many things.

1 hour ago, Fretful said:

 

I don't know why this box showed up-sorry.

[Skooma]

11 hours ago, violet and green said:

That was frustrating, as Kane had shown Carson he was ready to work with him since the first tribe shuffle, and is no threat. They could have got out Heidi or Danny and had a Tika 4 alliance. YamYam's obsession with whoever put his name down will bite him at some point, surely.

I agreed with Danny that Franny's plan to target a Tika now was "illogical", as they were and are working with the Soku three, and it would be premature to burn that bridge.

Very disappointing to miss out on Jaime playing her fake idol. All that build-up for nothing.

Carolyn continues to charm. I hope Carson stays loyal to her. Everyone else can go, in whatever order.

I too agree with Danny.  Frannie was at least one vote too soon on turning on possible allies in the short term.  They -- the 2 remaining if Frannie's ill thought out plan worked -- would get revenge by joining the other side the next vote. 

You do NOT burn bridges before you have to or you will be fighting a two front war you can't possibly win.  You have enough people wanting you out already.  Don't add to the list when there is no need to at this point in the game.

So she was indeed not being logical at all.  Everybody knows The Three Stooges are in the middle right now.  Not just her.  But everybody else still needs their votes too.  Attack them too soon and your little tribe will be taken out the next two votes afterwards as your tribe would be isolated from an alliance with either of the two remaining tribes and would be easy pickings until only one person is left.  And that person wouldn't likely be Frannie since she is now a major immunity challenge threat.

And yeah Yam Yam messed up this vote.  Carolyn and Carson were shown agreeing they wanted Danny out but Yam Yam screwed up that plan by being too stubborn to agree with them and wanting it his way period.

Also why has the three tribes alliance thing held so deep into this season?  Tribal loyalties usually break apart much earlier like immediately at merge as the low men/women in their tribe hop ship as soon as possible.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Skooma

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, Fretful said:

I always wonder what would happen if EVERYONE sat out the immunity challenge for the rice.  That way, they all make the same sacrifice for the same reward.  I'm sure it would make Jeff's head explode, and whoever came up with the plan would get the worst edit ever.  

Can’t happen, I don’t think. If Peachy says “I need 4 volunteers” to sit out for the rice, then the sit outs - so far as sitting out for the rice goes, anyway - get capped at the first 4 to volunteer.  That does NOT open the barn door for volunteers #5, #6, etc.  Nothing stops #5, #6, etc. from sitting out, of course - but they’re not doing it for rice.  They’re simply giving up their shot at individual immunity for no reason whatsoever - NOT the smartest gameplay strategy….

Edited April 27, 2023 by Nashville
Formatting

[DEL901]

Jeff didn’t even give numbers for sit outs at first.  He said let’s start negotiations and then Jamie (or was it Heidi) started throwing out names.  No negotiations.   

[bankerchick]

21 hours ago, mojoween said:

SO embarrassed every time Jaime talks about her idol.

I was starting to wonder if she was having a contest with herself to see how many times she could say 'idol' in the same sentence.  Of course, there's always the possibility that she thinks we don't know about it and so she's just trying to remind us, because we can't all be masterminds.

[CraftyHazel]

5 hours ago, sara416 said:

I've been wondering about her DOC for a while now, did she specify that it was alcohol? I missed some of it. Unpopular opinion, but Carolyn bugs the shit out of me. I worked in substance abuse as a therapist for a long time and she reminds me of so many of the people I worked with. I know I am only seeing snippets of her on tv, but she really seems like a "dry drunk" where she is free from her substance but the behaviors are still there. 

Well, you can come and sit by me.  I’m struggling with this season because it’s turned into “The Carolyn and Yam Yam Show”.  They’re almost certainly going to be in the finale at this point, and I’m going to have wasted a lot of Wednesday nights waiting for their comeuppance.

[violet and green]

4 hours ago, Skooma said:

I too agree with Danny.  Frannie was at least one vote too soon on turning on possible allies in the short term.  They -- the 2 remaining if Frannie's ill thought out plan worked -- would get revenge by joining the other side the next vote. 

You do NOT burn bridges before you have to or you will be fighting a two front war you can't possibly win.  You have enough people wanting you out already.  Don't add to the list when there is no need to at this point in the game.

So she was indeed not being logical at all.  Everybody knows The Three Stooges are in the middle right now.  Not just her. 

Exactly. It is amusing to me that people are claiming Frannie is somehow strategic and so prescient for noticing this episode that Tika are playing in the middle. Soka have only survived because of the undercover middle game Tika are playing, and because Tika agreed to pretend to Ratu to be voting with them and pretending they were unaware that Danny indeed did have an idol and would be playing it on Frannie.

Frannie is hardly a strategic mastermind, given she spent the first seven episodes in a loved-up pair, painting a target on both her and Matt's back, and endlessly gurning about the place - not even trying to downplay it.

[Heathrowe]

I don't think Kane was the biggest threat but he was incredibly stupid a few episodes when Carson told him the vote was going against Brandon and he went right to him and told him and named Carson as part of the conversation. So I'm not sure he established himself as trustworthy. He didn't seem to really connect with anyone organically and then tried to get into the "big guy" alliance and thought he was set. So in the end, not smart enough to be Carson's person, and not big enough to be a big guy. 

I do love Frannie - and Carolyn - and Carson. And YamYam. Or JamJam. Whatever his name is, he makes me laugh. I didn't take his thing about everyone who voted for him going down - I took that as a joke. And I don't think he feels safe at all, I think he's fun to watch.

 

 

[SummerDreams]

It's the first time this episode the idea that Frannie is going to win crossed my mind and that maybe that was why we were getting too much time on the showmance. She seems to have found herself after Matt left, she has won two immunity challenges, she was saved by another person's idol and she seems to realize that Tika is playing the middle and that they should be dealt with sooner rather than later.

I would love a Frannie win. She is so cute and a genuinely good person.

[seacliffsal]

I actually think that in almost every season there is a tribe/alliance that finds themselves in the middle and try to use that to their advantage.  I don't necessarily think it was brilliant of Frannie to realize this, but what she didn't so brilliantly realize is that she still needed them for another vote or two before trying to target them.  Targeting them at this point would just send the remaining Tika to the other side and then BAM! Frannie and Danny would be the next to go.  People in the minority usually serve a purpose in helping another group advance.

I don't dislike Frannie, but it seems like a lot of people really want her to be a mastermind.  Maybe she is, maybe she isn't.  As of now she doesn't strike me one way or another.  But, she did allow her relationship with Matt to overshadow other elements of the game.

[Taeolas]

20 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I don't hate Danny but I thought it very odd that he tried to convince all not to go for the rice. If it were me, I'd quietly decide "I'm not stepping down for rice" but be more than happy for other people to do it--(a) I get rice and (b) I compete against fewer people. There is no advantage to me to convince everybody to compete and it just gives people who want rice to be annoyed with me.

I could see the strategy. It may not be a good one; but if he was comfortable with his health and hunger levels, then convincing the tribe to pass on the rice means everyone else doesn't get the food-boost, and so he doesn't need to exert as much to win challenges or otherwise play the game. Especially if he has some confidence that he can win the current challenge. As we saw, after the tribe got the rice, their energy and activity levels spiked, and the game got that much more difficult. 

 

Really, just about any action you do on Survivor can be justified one way or another in terms of gameplay. (Short of deciding on Day 1 to climb a random multistory jagged rock on the shore for no reason)

Edited April 28, 2023 by Taeolas

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Taeolas said:

I could see the strategy. It may not be a good one; but if he was comfortable with his health and hunger levels, then convincing the tribe to pass on the rice means everyone else doesn't get the food-boost, and so he doesn't need to exert as much to win challenges or otherwise play the game. Especially if he has some confidence that he can win the current challenge. As we saw, after the tribe got the rice, their energy and activity levels spiked, and the game got that much more difficult. 

 

Really, just about any action you do on Survivor can be justified one way or another in terms of gameplay. (Short of deciding on Day 1 to climb a random multistory jagged rock on the shore for no reason)

I might buy this, and maybe this was part of his thinking, but we also got that confessional from Danny where he expressed disgust at the idea of not competing, and said something to the effect of he wouldn't want to stand with anyone who sat out - "we came here to play!" So I think a big part of it was some sort of macho "fight at all costs" attitude.

[Scatterbrained]

Danny wants to think of himself as an alpha, but he tries too hard.  I wonder if he will learn anything from his experience.  I feel he might be the type to dig in to denial.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Scatterbrained

[iMonrey]

Quote

I actually think that in almost every season there is a tribe/alliance that finds themselves in the middle and try to use that to their advantage.  I don't necessarily think it was brilliant of Frannie to realize this, but what she didn't so brilliantly realize is that she still needed them for another vote or two before trying to target them.  Targeting them at this point would just send the remaining Tika to the other side and then BAM! Frannie and Danny would be the next to go.

There was no guarantee that Carolyn, Yam Yam and Carson were going to continue voting with Soka. They're telling Soka they're voting with them but they're telling Ratu the same thing. That's why I kind of sided with Frannie here. Tika simply cannot be trusted. You stick with Tika for one vote too many and suddenly they switch to whoever is left at Rotu and you're on the outs.

I never see the logic in "waiting" to target someone because more often than not they wait too long and then it's too late. That window closes pretty quick when the numbers are down to single digits.

[violet and green]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

There was no guarantee that Carolyn, Yam Yam and Carson were going to continue voting with Soka. They're telling Soka they're voting with them but they're telling Ratu the same thing. That's why I kind of sided with Frannie here. Tika simply cannot be trusted. You stick with Tika for one vote too many and suddenly they switch to whoever is left at Rotu and you're on the outs.

I never see the logic in "waiting" to target someone because more often than not they wait too long and then it's too late. That window closes pretty quick when the numbers are down to single digits.

Frannie was not wrong in pointing out the (obvious) threat of Tika as a voting bloc - but her timing was completely off to suggest turning on them at that vote. If you want to get them to definitely join with Ratu and revenge vote the rest of Soka off one after the other, turning on Tika too soon would be the way, and last vote was too soon.

[Sarahsmile416]

I love listening to Rob and Stephen on RHAP after the episode, but today when I listened they really bugged.  They kept going on about how Heidi didn’t tell anyone about the idol she JUST found became everyone else had blabbed about theirs.  I wanted to scream - Carolyn has been holding an idol for almost the entire game and nobody knows a damned thing.  

On another note, still on the Lauren bugs train.  This time when they were laughing at Carolyn about the way she pronounced something and Lauren mentions that she needs a speech therapist.  Really? 

I was on the Yam Yam train until this episode when he kept going on about how people better not write his name down because they will be out next 🙄 You are not a mob boss Yam Yam, get I over yourself 

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

On another note, still on the Lauren bugs train.  This time when they were laughing at Carolyn about the way she pronounced something and Lauren mentions that she needs a speech therapist.  Really?

 I already thought it was a little too rude they were all laughing but it did seem playful. That comment from Lauren was too much.

[Sarahsmile416]

42 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

 I already thought it was a little too rude they were all laughing but it did seem playful. That comment from Lauren was too much.

Agreed…much of it was playful, but when she made that comment it just turned.   She and her undercover mean girl crap can go any time now.  

[Lantern7]

Erik weighs in on the episode:

[AncientNewbie]

Danny bugs me. I just have no love for the smug bro type. He seems to be playing a solid game, but the bit with the sitting out made me hope he was out soon. 

[blackwing]

On 4/26/2023 at 8:02 PM, tracyscott76 said:

Another good thing is that poor Jaime's fake idol was removed from the game, so I don't have to worry about her trying to play it.

That was absolutely the worst part of the episode for me.  I can't stand this woman, she thinks she is the MVP and running the game.  She was so smug about her fake idol.  I really wanted to see her play it for herself and get ousted.  Or alternatively, Kane betray her and try to play it for himself and have it fail.

On 4/27/2023 at 11:09 AM, Haleth said:

As fun as it would have been to see Jamie play the fake idol, it’s also fun to think how pissed off she must have been watching her idol sail off to Ponderosa with Kane. Bon voyage, idol!

I think what's worse is that now we are going to get at least one episode of her talking about how Kane left with her idol.

 

A fake idol isn't going to be re-hidden.  But nobody knows it was fake, so they may all look for a new one.  Are there any other idols left that have been re-hidden or yet to be found?  I will scream if Jamie finds a real idol.

[Scatterbrained]

You know, I’ve had the thought that Jaime could end up being the most unlikely winner, due to all her MVP talk.  It’s a lot like Gabler’s “hiding in plain sight” claims.  Ew

Edited May 3, 2023 by Scatterbrained

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I will scream if Jamie finds a real idol.

And I will cheer! (But no, I don't think there are any currently available. Matthew had the orange one and it went home with him and his bum shoulder, Heidi found the re-hidden green one after Danny played it, and Carolyn still has the purple one)

7 minutes ago, Scatterbrained said:

You know, I’ve had the thought that Jaime could end up being the most unlikely winner, due to all her MVP talk.  It’s a lot like Gabler’s “hiding in plain sight” claims.  Ew

I speculated in Jaime's thread that all her magic wand confessionals would make a great winner's montage in the finale. I really don't think she's going to win, but I'd be happy if she did.

I know I'm in the minority when it comes to Jaime, but I'm happy to sit alone. I suppose I can see how she might bug some people, but I'm charmed by her perpetual cheeriness. The MVP talk was maybe a bit silly, but to me that, and her talk about her idol, is just part of her enjoying herself.

As far as comparing her theoretical win to Gabler's, it would be similarly unexpected - but where his win killed that season for me (not that it had much going for it up to that point), a Jaime win would be the cherry on top of this season, and do much to wash away the funk of last season. There are others this season that I'd be happy to see win as well, but Jaime's my fave and has been from the start.

BING!

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I speculated in Jaime's thread that all her magic wand confessionals would make a great winner's montage in the finale. I really don't think she's going to win, but I'd be happy if she did.

Purely MHO, but Jaime can take her “magic wand” bit and shove it all the way up to 3rd and Main; to me it comes across as yet another lame “LOOK AT ME, CAMERA!!!” schtick every bit as puerile as SHAMtel’s “Evil Genius” tune.

[Scatterbrained]

I don’t dislike Jaime, but she not been shown to be strategizing effectively within this game, or to be in the information loop, or to have the kind of good relationships that will help advance her game.  I think she isn’t taken very seriously by the others in the game, similar to Carolyn, but Carolyn has overcome most of that with her core group.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Scatterbrained said:

I don’t dislike Jaime, but she not been shown to be strategizing effectively within this game, or to be in the information loop, or to have the kind of good relationships that will help advance her game.  I think she isn’t taken very seriously by the others in the game, similar to Carolyn, but Carolyn has overcome most of that with her core group.

That's fair enough, and like I said, I don't think she will win based on what we've seen so far. She seems to get along with people pretty well, but hasn't shown a lot of strategic depth outside of a fairly solid relationship with her own core group of Orange tribe members...but Lauren's the only one of those left now.

But whereas Gabler's out-of-nowhere win left me going "huh?" (and eventually "ew"), a Jaime out-of-nowhere win would be a pleasant surprise. For me anyway 😆

[Cotypubby]

Just catching up on this episode now, and can I just say how damn disappointed I am that all of the fake idols had no effect whatsoever!!? God dammit! I wanted to see someone get fooled by one and they all just dropped out of the game without anything happening. 😑