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S05.E04: Susan

Pallas

By Pallas
in The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel

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wonderwoman
wonderwoman

don’t know if i’m the only one, but this was a weak, repetitive episode that i pretty much ff’ed through until the susie/susan reveal. felt like filler — odd for the final season.

Insert Username
Insert Username

Why can't Midge not be a self-centered beyotch for one single day? This reminds me of when she ruined her co-workers wedding reception. For someone who was brought up to be a perfect wife and mother a

reallyjustjen
reallyjustjen

I could have done without 1.5 full viewings of the 3-act waste management musical.  🙃. But given that Midge clearly understood Susie’s relationship with the mob guys, would it have killed her to just

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

52 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I actually do know who Jimmy Fallon’s wife is. I’m aware of these things from gossip columns and the like. Susie, being in the industry, would know. 

So maybe Susie was snooping around Ford’s office to see if there really was a framed photo of the wifey on his desk, and if it really was Susie/Susan’s old flame — because gossip columns have always been at least somewhat unreliable news sources?

chaifan

chaifan

 

Just hearing Hedy shout "Susan! Susan!", I knew there was going to be a good story.  But I wasn't expecting them to be former girlfriends.  That was an amazing scene for Alex B.  My initial thought last episode was that Hedy was wrapped up in the mob, but I'm so glad I was wrong with that.  It sort of pisses me off a little that it's taken until the 5th season to just state Suzie's sexuality out loud. 

I'm glad Gordon isn't a total cad, or a serial sexual harasser.  I'd like to find out more why he and Hedy have their arrangement.  While I can see the advantages for Hedy, Gordon would have to be constantly dodging paparazzi if he wanted to actually go out  in public with a woman, and astute reporters could pick up on him having flings just for sex.  If he were single, I don't think it would be scandalous for him to be "dating" a lot of different women.  So I don't see the advantage for Gordon in all of this.

Speaking of mob stuff,  I can sort of buy both Midge and Suzie being rather naive about how long they were "in for", and that thinking this "reciprocity" would make them even and Suzie was free from obligations.  Joel seems to be the only person who gets it, but Suzie won't talk to him.  I don't like the dark turn Frank and Nicky took at the end, just because I was enjoying the weird, seemingly genuine friendship they had going with Suzie.  It was a fun part of the show, and now I think that's done.  I don't know how they'll resolve this, or even if they will.  I hope speculation up-thread about Joel going to Mai's family is wrong, and after his beating I don't know if he'd do that anyways. 

I'm a bit of a theater geek, and I never knew anything about industrial musicals.  It's fascinating!  I'm going to put Bathtubs over Broadway on my Netflix watchlist. 

 

 

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Sarah 103

Sarah 103

(edited)
9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So maybe Susie was snooping around Ford’s office to see if there really was a framed photo of the wifey on his desk, and if it really was Susie/Susan’s old flame — because gossip columns have always been at least somewhat unreliable news sources?

In terms of dating and status of relationships gossip columns may not always get it right. When it comes to something as basic as marriage (is someone married and who they are married to) the gossip columns will get something like that right. 

Edited by Sarah 103
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Daff

Daff

On 4/22/2023 at 11:57 AM, iMonrey said:

I thought the dance number with the garbage can lids was fantastic. I watched it twice, and I will probably watch it again. They really pulled off some Broadway-worthy stuff with that musical. Color me impressed. That could not have been easy.

Reminded me of “Stomp”. Wonder how many takes to get the “kick the lids off the feet into the air” part filmed?

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chaifan

chaifan

22 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

In terms of dating and status of relationships gossip columns may not always get it right. When it comes to something as basic as marriage (is someone married and who they are married to) the gossip columns will get something like that right. 

I could easily believe that in the 60's, Gordon's wife wouldn't be general public knowledge and that Suzie wouldn't have known it was Hedy prior to seeing the picture on his desk.  He's a talk show host, not a glamorous movie star.  There's nothing to indicate they were a hot "it" couple of the day.  That's who got their photos published.  If there were nothing newsworthy about his marriage, why would it be talked about?  Remember, back then there was limited space in a limited number of publications for gossip/celebrity news.  A photo of Elizabeth Taylor out on the town would trump one of a Gordon-like celebrity any day. 

It could also be possible she knew about Hedy being married to Gordon from mutual college friends that she still talks to, alumni newsletter, reunions, etc.  Though all that seems sort of unlikely for Suzie. 

But... if she didn't know about Hedy, why was she snooping in Gordon's office?

But... if she did know about Hedy, and really didn't want to see her, why was she hanging around at 30 Rock? 

 

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Francie

Francie

11 minutes ago, chaifan said:

But... if she didn't know about Hedy, why was she snooping in Gordon's office?

She was indulging herself in a "pretending to be an important television executive" moment. Granted, she has her own office, with its amazing view, but that was a luxurious executive office in 30 rock. It's like when a kid comes into an office and swirls around in the office chair. 

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EtheltoTillie

EtheltoTillie

(edited)
6 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Right, but haven't we seen there there a couple of times now? 

I think she went there again to argue after she heard that Gordon had the rule against having workers on the show.  I think she had just found that out and was dealing with Midge's tantrum.  She felt misled and let Midge take the job thinking it would lead to a show appearance.

Edited by EtheltoTillie
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janie jones

janie jones

The conversation about Susie in Gordon's office has me confused.

I thought she was inside Gordon's personal office the night everyone was ice skating, to confront him about whether Midge still had her job? And that was when she found Hedy's picture, when she was poking around?

And then on a different day she was headed there to confront him about Midge not appearing on the show, and that's when she ran into Hedy.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)
19 minutes ago, janie jones said:

The conversation about Susie in Gordon's office has me confused.

I thought she was inside Gordon's personal office the night everyone was ice skating, to confront him about whether Midge still had her job? And that was when she found Hedy's picture, when she was poking around?

And then on a different day she was headed there to confront him about Midge not appearing on the show, and that's when she ran into Hedy.

5 minutes ago, Francie said:

Susie went up to the offices on the ice skating night because she didn't want to use the public restroom by the rink. Then she started wandering around, and landed in Gordon's office. 

On the day she ran into Hedy, she went up to confront them about Midge not being allowed to appear on the show. 

Thanks.
The only thing I noticed is that Susie does refer to Hedy as "Hedy" when they first meet after many years — unlike Hedy addressing Susie as "Susan" — so at least it's not like Susie didn't know who Gordon Ford's wife was because Susie had known her as "Henrietta" or something. 
Maybe we'll get a line in the next episode about Hedy looking unrecognizably different now?
Or maybe Susie was aware that her old flame married Gordon Ford and had just been assuming they would never likely share the same social circles  — until now?

Edited by shapeshifter
Francie

Francie

11 minutes ago, janie jones said:

The conversation about Susie in Gordon's office has me confused.

I thought she was inside Gordon's personal office the night everyone was ice skating, to confront him about whether Midge still had her job? And that was when she found Hedy's picture, when she was poking around?

And then on a different day she was headed there to confront him about Midge not appearing on the show, and that's when she ran into Hedy.

Susie went up to the offices on the ice skating night because she didn't want to use the public restroom by the rink. Then she started wandering around, and landed in Gordon's office. 

On the day she ran into Hedy, she went up to confront them about Midge not being allowed to appear on the show. 

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chaifan

chaifan

On the whole how many times was Suzie in/around 30 Rock...  My earlier thought, above, was that if Suzie knew that her old girlfriend, Hedy, was married to Gordon, and if she was trying to avoid running into Hedy, then it doesn't make sense because Suzie was hanging around 30 Rock.  Yes, in this episode she was there for a reason - to go yell at Mike.  But in the earlier episode, she's just hanging around as they're drunk/celebratory ice skating, and then she goes into the offices to use the bathroom.  If she doesn't want to see/talk to Hedy, which is what it really seemed in this episode, and if she knew Hedy was married to Gordon, she'd avoid 30 Rock as much as possible.  (And I still think there was one more scene, maybe ep 2?, when she was at 30 Rock antagonizing Mike.)

This is why I don't think Suzie knew Hedy was married to Gordon, and was so surprised to see the picture of her on his desk. 

That's just my theory. 

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Cosmocrush

Cosmocrush

(edited)
On 4/22/2023 at 6:54 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

I think she did know her ex was married to him that's why she snuck in his office, snooping for clues about her. 

Agreed, 100%.  Susie didn't wonder what Hedy was doing at the studio; she just wanted to get away.  She knew why Hedy would be there - being Gordon's wife.   On the street Susie said something like, "Mrs. Gordon Ford - what an accomplishment."  so yes, Susie already knew but probably never expected to run into her at the show. 

Edited by Cosmocrush
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Suzn

Suzn

Something is puzzling to me about Susie and Hedy.  Hedy says she was 22 when they were together and talks about catching up on 15 years - that makes her 37.  So, how old is Susie supposed to be?  Alex Borstein is 52 and 15 years ago, she was 37.  So her 37 to Hedy's 22 is a pretty big age difference, of course entirely possible but somehow they make it sound as though they were more contemporaries.

shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)
2 hours ago, Suzn said:

Something is puzzling to me about Susie and Hedy.  Hedy says she was 22 when they were together and talks about catching up on 15 years - that makes her 37.  So, how old is Susie supposed to be?  Alex Borstein is 52 and 15 years ago, she was 37.  So her 37 to Hedy's 22 is a pretty big age difference, of course entirely possible but somehow they make it sound as though they were more contemporaries.

Given Hedy's age reveal and the bit of information regarding how Susie and Hedy met, and assuming the rule-of-thumb for actor's age v. character's age of plus or minus 10 years is in place, we could presume that Susie is now 42, or 5 years older than Hedy. 
But if Hedy was 22 when they got together and then they separated a few years later, they could both be a few years older now.
I do think Susie/Alex Borstein looks like she could be 42.

BTW, Nina Arianda (Hedy) is 38.

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Pallas

Pallas

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Susie first encountered Hedy in episode 1, when she went to the studio during the taping of the show and ended up doing the pantomime with Mike. He had her escorted toward the elevator, where Susie heard a woman's voice, froze in place and then followed the voice down the hall, to see the back of a blonde woman sauntering down the hallway as she spoke with two friends. 

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chaifan

chaifan

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

Susie first encountered Hedy in episode 1, when she went to the studio during the taping of the show and ended up doing the pantomime with Mike. He had her escorted toward the elevator, where Susie heard a woman's voice, froze in place and then followed the voice down the hall, to see the back of a blonde woman sauntering down the hallway as she spoke with two friends. 

Thank you!  That puts a lot of this in perspective.  So she knew Hedy was at 30 Rock.  The question remains if she knew why - did Suzie know at that time Hedy was married to Gordon?  Did she do a little research and find out on her own?  Or did she put two and two together only when she saw the photo on Gordon's desk?  From her expression when she saw the photo (I rewatched the scene) I think that was when she figured it out. 

The age thing is also interesting.  Alex B. could easily pass for being in her early 40's, but 30's would be pushing it.  It's possible that Suzie didn't go straight from high school to college, she had to work a little to save the money, or she worked her way through so it took her a few extra years to graduate.  That would fit @shapeshifter's timeline above. 

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pasdetrois

pasdetrois

(edited)
On 4/22/2023 at 3:38 PM, Sarah 103 said:

Almost anyone who was a singer or a comic prior to the 1970s probably had some mob ties or dealings with organized crime

Apparently they financed some rock bands as well. I don't remember the details, but I read a story about Tommy James and the Shondells having to hide out from an angry loan shark.

I'm a tapper from way back so I enjoyed the first presentation of the trash dance. I think at one point the choreography had them balancing one foot on the rim of the lids.

Edited by pasdetrois
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Francie

Francie

(edited)
4 hours ago, Pallas said:

Susie first encountered Hedy in episode 1, when she went to the studio during the taping of the show and ended up doing the pantomime with Mike. He had her escorted toward the elevator, where Susie heard a woman's voice, froze in place and then followed the voice down the hall, to see the back of a blonde woman sauntering down the hallway as she spoke with two friends. 

 

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Thank you!  That puts a lot of this in perspective.  So she knew Hedy was at 30 Rock.  The question remains if she knew why - did Suzie know at that time Hedy was married to Gordon?  Did she do a little research and find out on her own?  Or did she put two and two together only when she saw the photo on Gordon's desk?  From her expression when she saw the photo (I rewatched the scene) I think that was when she figured it out. 

The age thing is also interesting.  Alex B. could easily pass for being in her early 40's, but 30's would be pushing it.  It's possible that Suzie didn't go straight from high school to college, she had to work a little to save the money, or she worked her way through so it took her a few extra years to graduate.  That would fit @shapeshifter's timeline above. 

That's not how I read it at all. 

In episode 1, Susie saw the backs of some funny women going down the hall. She stopped and took notice because she assumed, from their comedic wit, they were writers. That's why she was surprised later when talking with Gordon Ford and he said he didn't have any female writers on the staff. 

In the skating rink episode, Susie came across the picture of Hedy and was shell-shocked. That was her first and only glimpse of Hedy in 15 years. And I don't think a 1960s a charity-attending housewife of a popular tv show host is going to have her picture plastered around the tabloids. It's no surprise to me that this was something Susie didn't know. And the show even tried to lay the groundwork for Susie not knowing by having Midge ask her about Gordon's wife, and Susie telling her she didn't know anything. 

Susie only returned to 30 Rock after having a horrendous day where she was already off her game by being threatened by Frank and Nicky. When she learned Midge was being forbidden to be on the show due to her status as writer, Susie impulsively went to 30 Rock to confront whomever she could find. 

And Susie very easily comes across as someone around 40. Frankly, I was surprised to hear Alex was in her 50s. Though, I hadn't given her age much, if any, thought. 

 

Edited by Francie
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millennium

millennium

On 4/21/2023 at 10:28 AM, wonderwoman said:

don’t know if i’m the only one, but this was a weak, repetitive episode that i pretty much ff’ed through until the susie/susan reveal. felt like filler — odd for the final season.

Is it ironic or just meta that most of this episode celebrated garbage?   And was that Midge breaking character during the musical number, or Rachel Brosnahan?

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Well that certainly explains why Susie had that strong reaction to seeing a picture of Gordan and his wife and why she was being so weird about Midge asking about their marriage, I didn't see that one coming. I guess Gordan was actually telling the truth when he said that he and his wife have an arrangement, which might be the biggest surprise of them all. This should certainly be interesting, I love getting more Susie backstory. 

That garbage show was actually pretty awesome, the mob guys might have missed their calling working in the theater. Of course Midge throws a hissy fit and messes it all up though, despite knowing what the consequences could be AND that her kids were there. She cant just suck it up and be a professional, she has to whine and moan because she didn't get what she wants right away and because she thinks she's above all of this and more special than everyone. She's definitely going to be one of those stars that get big on their natural talent which makes the public adore them but quickly get a reputation for being difficult without the industry, even if everyone is still stuck with them. 

I'm glad that other people noticed that Susie's sister was in the garbage play, no one on the show mentioned it so I almost thought it was just another actress who looked like her. Its so weird that Susie apparently had no reaction to that. 

Rose, Abe, and the play made me laugh way too hard, it reminded me so much of all the literature classes I took in college. Sometimes the blue curtains aren't a metaphor for the characters depending depression and existential angst, sometimes the author is just trying to say that the curtains are fucking blue. 

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Oosala

Oosala

On 4/21/2023 at 6:11 PM, Sarah 103 said:

Susie lost of the love of her life and never had another serious romantic relationship ever again. That is probably one of the biggest surprises. I was sure that Susie was asexual, and boy was I wrong.

Thank you for stating clearly what happened because I wasn't sure what I was seeing.  I'm a bit slow on the uptake sometimes.

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HouseofBeck

HouseofBeck

On 4/24/2023 at 7:01 PM, shapeshifter said:

Given Hedy's age reveal and the bit of information regarding how Susie and Hedy met, and assuming the rule-of-thumb for actor's age v. character's age of plus or minus 10 years is in place, we could presume that Susie is now 42, or 5 years older than Hedy. 
But if Hedy was 22 when they got together and then they separated a few years later, they could both be a few years older now.
I do think Susie/Alex Borstein looks like she could be 42.

BTW, Nina Arianda (Hedy) is 38.

I was thinking 30s for Susie/Alex. 

On 4/25/2023 at 10:39 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

My real middle name is Hedy!  I don't know where my parents got it, and I never use it.

My first guess would be Hedy Lamarr.

I am glad to finally know why Susie followed this Hedy in the first place and then freaked out at her picture. I’d thought at first she thought the woman was funny and a potential comic! Oops. 😀 She had just thought she’d recognized her voice but wasn’t sure…and then the picture clinched it.

I loved the garbage musical and I think it was because, beside the awesome talent, all the participants took it seriously. Like Tom Holland doing “Umbrella.” 😁

Midge..what the fuck. I don’t care how ingrained her idiocy/entitlement is, by NOW, after all the lessons learned, she should have been more professional and just done the same thing on stage as she had the night before. Especially since she didn’t quit her job and therefore be eligible to be on the show. Susie got her that job, she’s bent on keeping it (at least up through now), so then…why detonate this other role Susie has her do?

I just don’t buy Susie being that naive that ALL the things those guys did and did not do for her would be wiped out by a two-day single act performance. And even if so, there’s no way Susie would have thought Midge’s deliberate fuck-up would mean that reciprocity even counted at that point. I wish she’d run up on stage, grabbed the script, and dumped Midge back in the trash can and sat on it.

 

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PurpleTentacle

PurpleTentacle

(edited)
On 4/22/2023 at 6:41 PM, janie jones said:

That was my first thought, too, but what reason do Mei's parents have to help him now?

He could probably ask Mei to talk to her parents. She owes him one.

On 4/24/2023 at 8:40 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

I had to rewatch because I fell asleep in the middle. Now I suddenly recognized the enormous irony of Sophie Lennon’s showing up to fill the comedy slot. 

On 4/24/2023 at 11:57 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

Sophie is Midge’s great rival/nemesis. Not only doesn’t Midge get the spot, they pull in her enemy. 

I don't think that qualifies as irony.

Edited by PurpleTentacle
gorgy

gorgy

As the season started there was less Susie/Midge conquering the world of the earlier seasons as their lives became more diverse for lack of a better word. As I grew to really hate Midge as a character, I thought at least Susie would be fascinating to watch how her story plays out. 

This episode was baffling. For someone so attuned or at least aspired to be, her not knowing the wife of one of the few at the bigtime names in late night seems so absurd to me. Everybody in the Carnegie Deli, at the very least, is up everybody's ass in the entertainment business. Most normal people may not know Gordon Ford's wife, but without a doubt in my head, someone like Susie would. Especially because this Hedy seems like a woman about town.

Oh my god, the naivete shown by Ms. Myerson with the mob goons was too much to be believable. Yeah, the mob guys will just leave you alone after one little favor. Okay, Susie. For as street smart as she is made out to, this far much too much.

I'll let it slide for plot contrivance sake, but this season is really running out of steam

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PurpleTentacle

PurpleTentacle

(edited)
14 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Okay, then, how about "an enormous kick in the head."

Yes, Dean Martin always had a better grip on things than Alanis Morissette.

11 hours ago, gorgy said:

This episode was baffling. For someone so attuned or at least aspired to be, her not knowing the wife of one of the few at the bigtime names in late night seems so absurd to me.

I mean I could see it. This was before the internet. Where would she have seen a photo? She probably knew the name, but Hedy Ford wouldn't ring a bell. Even if she had read the maiden name at some point she would probably just have gone "what a weird coincidence" and not thought that it was actually her college flame.

I was way more disturbed that Susi didn't get how being in debt to the mob works. Weren't we supposed to believe that she had street smarts?

Edited by PurpleTentacle
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chaifan

chaifan

7 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I was way more disturbed that Susi didn't get how being in debt to the mob works. Weren't we supposed to believe that she had street smarts?

She paid off the actual debt (Joel loaned her the money).  And I think she thought there was a friendship here, in a weird way.  Wasn't one of them living with her?  They hang out in her office, things like that.  She paid off the debt, she thought was clear.  But then they "helped" Rose, so she had to get Midge to do the play.  I can see how she thought this was a tit-for-tat-and-we're-done relationship.  I may have missed something, but is there something else they did that she hasn't "repaid"? 

Anyways, I said it above... I don't like this dark turn.  I liked Suzie having a bizarre friendship with these two mob guys, and now it's ruined. 

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Red Fields

Red Fields

On 4/21/2023 at 12:45 PM, buckboard said:

There is a wonderful documentary - "Bathtubs Over Broadway" - about industrial musicals.  They were really big in the day and many stars - e.g., Chita Rivera, Martin Short, Florence Henderson - got their starts appearing in them.

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Streaming-Review-BATHTUBS-OVER-BROADWAY-A-Fantastic-Award-Winning-Documentary-About-Industrial-Musicals-20200728

Thank you for this info! I just watched it with my son and husband (on Netflix) and it was terrific!

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