Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Qoass]

I was trying to remember what show I heard this on and then I realized, "Oh, yeah... EVERY show!!".  

 

"I don't want to be a third wheel."

 

TV writers, have you ever seen one of those rolling stools?  A tricycle?  Third wheels are a GOOD thing:  they offer support and balance.

 

If you want a character to express that they feel like they are along for the ride, providing no purpose and getting in the way, write that they don't want to be a FIFTH wheel.  That's the proper phrase.

 

Unless you want them to appear stupid, in which case, carry on.

 

Thank you.

 

 

[Ohwell]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I just hate it when news reporters say "the Ukraine" instead of  "Ukraine." 

[Wings]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I just hate it when news reporters say "the Ukraine" instead of  "Ukraine." 

 

Ha ha ha!  Love this. I was talking about this to some friends and it didn't strike them as odd until I mentioned it.  We are in the minority.  It is like they are talking about a freeway in LA, "The 101."   I find that odd too.  I live on the east coast and :"the" is not put in front of highway numbers. Not a big deal, just notable. 

[legaleagle53]

That would literally fuck up the song, though.   ;-)

 

I see what you did there, walnutqueen!

[walnutqueen]

I see what you did there, walnutqueen!

 

legaleagleeyes,53!

[Sandman87]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I just hate it when news reporters say "the Ukraine" instead of "Ukraine."

According to the Wikipedia, "the Ukraine" used to be the correct form.

 

It is like they are talking about a freeway in LA, "The 101." I find that odd too. I live on the east coast and :"the" is not put in front of highway numbers.

Twice now our local news station has hired a reporter from "down south" in LA, and both times they had to be broken of the habit of doing this. One of them tried to compromise for a while by combining "highway X" with "the X", which gave us "the highway X", which made all the local freeways sound like the names of rock bands.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Sandman87

[JTMacc99]

Well, according to Merriam-Webster, "one less" is the preferred usage which comes as great relief to me.  I don't think I'd want to sing "One fewer bell to answer, one fewer egg to fry" next time that song comes up on American Idol...

I'll be damned. I guess I have one less thing to worry about from now on, but it still sounds wrong to me.

[Ohwell]

According to the Wikipedia, "the Ukraine" used to be the correct form.

Yes, but that was before Ukraine got independence in 1991.  News reporters should know better now.

[MyAimIsTrue]

A coworker of mine who is a programmer (I work for a software company) has been working on an issue for one of our clients.  I'm on her email list for this correction and every single time she writes that "the fix has been ran in library..."  I want to bitch slap her.

[DXD526]

The phrase "full of win" or "made of win" grates on my nerves like little else. Coming across it in a sentence is like having sandpaper dragged across my eyeballs. UGH. Fortunately, I almost never hear it used in conversation, but it's common on the Web, and never fails to irritate to a high degree.

 

Also common and irritating - the parenthesis that are never closed. The parenthesis get opened to make a certain point (whatever that point is, then never get closed! One is left wondering when that point has been sufficiently made, when suddenly, we're on to the next thing, and it's obvious those parenthesis will never be closed. The writer has forgotten the whole matter; the reader best do the same.

[Wings]

My husband and I used to collect signs misusing quotation marks.  It is so prevalent that we became bored with the hobby. 

 

"Fried chicken" this Saturday at town common fair.  

"Free hot dog" with a fill up (at local gas station).

 

I have lost my list but you get the gist and I am sure you see this too!   

 

Two twins is a common mistake that is glaring and used often by those who should know better.  

Edited September 5, 2014 by wings707

[Shannon L.]

 

The phrase "full of win" or "made of win" grates on my nerves like little else.

Hee!  I literally just wrote that on another thread, then deleted it and used a different phrase.  Not sure why, since it doesn't bother me that much, but I did.

 

My husband and I used to collect signs misusing quotation marks.  It is so prevalent that we became bored with the hobby.

My daughter just started 8th grade and her English teacher has a "Wall of Shame" where kids can take pictures of incorrect grammar on signs, or print out anything with incorrect grammar in it and hang it up.  Sounds like it could be pretty full by the end of the year if they all pay attention. 

[Sandman87]

Dragging the thread back to TV: The latest gawdawful ad from Charter for their phone/data/TV bundle features a bunch of faux Charter employees dancing while they sing a cheesy rap tune. It includes the line "Charterators are standing by!" I'm not sure what a Charterator is, but it might be related to InSinkErator, which is a brand of garbage disposals. An apt metaphor for the internet perhaps. Or maybe it's more like an Alligator, waiting there by the phone for unsuspecting potential customers to call so that it can grab them and drag them down into a two year connection contract.

[Wings]

Hee!  I literally just wrote that on another thread, then deleted it and used a different phrase.  Not sure why, since it doesn't bother me that much, but I did.

 

My daughter just started 8th grade and her English teacher has a "Wall of Shame" where kids can take pictures of incorrect grammar on signs, or print out anything with incorrect grammar in it and hang it up.  Sounds like it could be pretty full by the end of the year if they all pay attention. 

 

 

It really could!  What a good assignment for kids, I love this.  Have her alert to misused quotation marks.  She may be the only one to watch for them unless her teacher has alerted them.  I just stopped myself from ending a sentence with a preposition (pointed that out).  I catch myself in both speaking and posting.  

Edited September 5, 2014 by wings707

[Kromm]

Like a missile, this video starring John Oliver and Cookie Monster addresses the very genesis of this entire thread.

 

I've cued it up to the exact place, so it's a link not an embed:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLi2xB82ZyI#t=231

[realityplease]

I admit to having a lot to learn in this arena but several things bug me to no end:

 

1. On any given Real Housewives show, one housewife inevitably asks another housewife, "Are you kidding me RIGHT NOW?" (As opposed to "Are You Kidding Me?") What does the "right now" add to the inquiry? More air time for the extra words? 

 

2. Has no one mentioned any of the Kardashian/Jenners yet? Can't believe it.  It's difficult not to wince within ten minutes of listening to ANY of them.  They are totally confused by the use of I, me, him, he, her, or she.  The typical start to any sentence or story is,  "Me and Kendall/Kylie/Khloe (fill in any name). . ."   NONE of them get this right - from the young home-schooled twit to the older supposedly college-educated deadpan twit.   Kris' grammar is slightly better but she bugs me too with her over-the-top descriptions - every event is "magical," North is "delicious," and Kanye's every burp is genius. 

 

Their self-absorption can be amusing for a bit, but watching Kim pose  (at all times, everywhere) and check out her reflection (like a Budgie bird in any mirror or reflective surface) gets to be a bore, especially when the sound must be muted to avoid hearing any of them clobber the English language.  

[shapeshifter]

2. Has no one mentioned any of the Kardashian/Jenners yet? Can't believe it.  It's difficult not to wince within ten minutes of listening to ANY of them.  They are totally confused by the use of I, me, him, he, her, or she.  The typical start to any sentence or story is,  "Me and Kendall/Kylie/Khloe (fill in any name). . ."   NONE of them get this right - from the young home-schooled twit to the older supposedly college-educated deadpan twit....

My co-worker, who is an otherwise lovely person with 2 masters degrees--including one in English Literature--frequently begins sentences with "Me and...."

I thought it was because she is a first generation English speaker, but maybe she's a closet Kardashian watcher?

I always change the channel or turn off the TV when any Kardashians appear. I thought it was their banality that bothered me, but maybe it's just their bad grammar.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

"I kinda got pregnant." Excerpt from a sleazy talk show. Don't ask.

So she was only kinda pregnant? If you're only kinda pregnant, does that mean the guy in question is only kinda the father?

[slensam]

So she was only kinda pregnant? If you're only kinda pregnant, does that mean the guy in question is only kinda the father?

There are probably a lot of dirty ways that question could be answered. I'm not going to try.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

That's why I left it there and then ran away, slensam. ;-)

[Wings]

The trend of starting sentences with "I mean" is irritating, unless you are clarifying something you just said, in a discussion.  I even heard Dr Phil do this.   This may have been discussed, still catching up. 

Edited September 6, 2014 by wings707

[Wings]

A number of years ago, I was reprimanded in a rather nasty way on a message board by someone who informed me-publicly, not in a PM--that the proper wording was "people who", not "people that".  Now, I never correct anyone who says that, but I always catch it--on tv and movies, in music.....

 

 

 

I just recently found this thread and now taking the time to read all of it. 

 

The incorrect use of 'that' instead of 'who' is pervasive.   It is so common that you almost never hear or read the proper use.   It doesn't trigger a reaction, like some things do, but I notice it.  

 

Long before technology a friend of mine corrected me on this.  She said, from someone as smart as you are, I would not expect to hear this.   It was a gentle critique but I never forgot it.  I have always prided myself in using proper grammar so this registered.  

Edited September 6, 2014 by wings707

[Sandman87]

My husband and I used to collect signs misusing quotation marks.  It is so prevalent that we became bored with the hobby.

 

Here's a postcard from Frisky Dingo that you can add to your collection.

 

Killface was not pleased when he saw what the printer had done: "Why does it say 'Welcome to you are Doom!'? What does that even mean, and why, for God's sakes, is Doom in quotes? Is...is this some sort of ironic doom?! Is the wink implied?! No, it isn't. So please tell me how and why I'm suddenly a laughingstock!"

[Wings]

Good one Sandman.  Thumbs up.  

[shapeshifter]

Here's a postcard from Frisky Dingo that you can add to your collection.

 

Killface was not pleased when he saw what the printer had done: "Why does it say 'Welcome to you are Doom!'? What does that even mean, and why, for God's sakes, is Doom in quotes? Is...is this some sort of ironic doom?! Is the wink implied?! No, it isn't. So please tell me how and why I'm suddenly a laughingstock!"

And why is Mao grinning in the lower right corner?

[Wings]

And why is Mao grinning in the lower right corner?

 

I just changed to google chrome and cannot find the button to click for higher resolution but I see  Mao say "clean!"  Could it really be we have a double offense here?! 

[Sandman87]

That's a coupon for the printer shop...which is also a dry-cleaning shop...which is run by a guy who's pretending to be Chinese. It's complicated.

[MyAimIsTrue]

A coworker of mine has a bad habit of saying a few words and then finishing her incomplete sentence/thought with "you know what I'm saying?"  It got to the point where I replied with "no, I don't know what you're saying" and she just looked at me funny.

[zillabreeze]

Pardon me if this has been covered-since when did every experience in life become a "journey".  My weightloss journey, my get sober journey, my looking for the right prom dress journey.  Stop it.

 

People!  The plural of text is NOT "text-es"

[LADreamr]

Well, I could see the first two being a journey, because there is often emotional healing and self-awareness that comes with them.  But yeah, most of the time ... no.

[Rick Kitchen]

 

If you live in California, that long road running from San Diego to Sonoma is El Camino Real, not the El Camino Real. "El" already means"the."

 

The La Brea Tar Pits.  La Brea means "the tar".  So you're saying "The The Tar Tar Pits".

[ToxicUnicorn]

The incorrect use of 'that' instead of 'who' is pervasive.   It is so common that you almost never hear or read the proper use.   It doesn't trigger a reaction, like some things do, but I notice it.

Oh, dear.  I'm sure I'm a frequent offender.  One of my teachers told me (long ago) that "that" was always correct, but "which" was not.  I can't remember the distinction very well, so I use "that" all the time.

 

We never discussed "who".  Sorry, wings707!

Edited September 11, 2014 by ToxicUnicorn

[ethalfrida]

Oh, dear.  I'm sure I'm a frequent offender.  One of my teachers told me (long ago) that "that" was always correct, but "which" was not.  I can't remember the distinction very well, so I use "that" all the time.

 

We never discussed "who".  Sorry, wings707!

Think of it like this ...  people who, things that.

[Rick Kitchen]

Hey, just wait, one of these days we’re going to get the complete works of Shakespeare translated into textspeak.

 

“romeo romeo y r u romeo?!?”

 

Have you ever seen the LOLCat Bible? - http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

 

1 Oh hai. In teh beginnin Ceiling Cat maded teh skiez An da Urfs, but he did not eated dem.

2 Da Urfs no had shapez An haded dark face, An Ceiling Cat rode invisible bike over teh waterz.

3 At start, no has lyte. An Ceiling Cat sayz, i can haz lite? An lite wuz. 4 An Ceiling Cat sawed teh lite, to seez stuffs, An splitted teh lite from dark but taht wuz ok cuz kittehs can see in teh dark An not tripz over nethin.5 An Ceiling Cat sayed light Day An dark no Day. It were FURST!!!1

[Rick Kitchen]

The phrase "full of win" or "made of win" grates on my nerves like little else. Coming across it in a sentence is like having sandpaper dragged across my eyeballs. UGH. Fortunately, I almost never hear it used in conversation, but it's common on the Web, and never fails to irritate to a high degree.

 

Also common and irritating - the parenthesis that are never closed. The parenthesis get opened to make a certain point (whatever that point is, then never get closed! One is left wondering when that point has been sufficiently made, when suddenly, we're on to the next thing, and it's obvious those parenthesis will never be closed. The writer has forgotten the whole matter; the reader best do the same.

 

I saw a picture somebody posted in Facebook the other day that basically said, "If you're going to use an opening parenthesis, use a closing one, too.  No need to air condition the entire paragraph."

[Cobalt Stargazer]

If Alyssa Milano does not stop saying kore-ters, I am going to throw something through my TV.

[Sandman87]

Think of it like this ...  people who, things that.

So does an animal count as a who or a that? My cat wants to know.

[Wings]

So does an animal count as a who or a that? My cat wants to know.

 

 

https://www.noslangues-ourlanguages.gc.ca/bien-well/fra-eng/grammaire-grammar/animal-eng.html

 

Question:

Should I use who or that when I'm referring to an animal?

Answer:

Everybody agrees that who designates people and that refers to things. But what about animals? Many people think of animals, especially their pets, as people too.

It's safe to say that if an animal has a name, like Sparky or Elroy, it's on an equal grammatical footing with a person. So when you're referring to an animal by name, opt for the pronoun who; otherwise, use that. For example:

The roar of the vacuum cleaner scared our cat Scooter, who was sleeping on the rug.

Ziggy, who is a very greedy guinea pig, ate a whole apple.

BUT

It was the neighbour's dog that got into our garbage cans.

The squirrel that took my peanuts scampered up a tree.

[MyAimIsTrue]

If Alyssa Milano does not stop saying kore-ters, I am going to throw something through my TV.

 

Kore-ters as in quarters?  How else would it be said?  That may be a northeastern regional accent thing as I pronounce it the same way.

[Wings]

Kore-ters as in quarters?  How else would it be said?  That may be a northeastern regional accent thing as I pronounce it the same way.

 

 

I was born and raised in MI and spent my adult life in the northeast and I pronounce it quart-ers! 

[FormerMod-a1]

Right - QU words are pronounced with a KW sound. Would you say "kit" for the word "quit"?  So "quarter" = kwôrtər.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Right - QU words are pronounced with a KW sound. Would you say "kit" for the word "quit"?  So "quarter" = kwôrtər.

 

I've pronounced it as 'kore-ters' my entire life and never thought two ways about it.  Like I said before it must be a regional accent thing and no, I don't say 'kit' for quit.

[zillabreeze]

 

If Alyssa Milano does not stop saying kore-ters, I am going to throw something through my TV.

I SUFFERED through an entire Wen infomercial last night waiting on "kore-ters", and she never said it.  Where is she doing this? 

[Portia]

Kore-ters as in quarters?  How else would it be said?  That may be a northeastern regional accent thing as I pronounce it the same way.

 

 

I've pronounced it as 'kore-ters' my entire life and never thought two ways about it.  Like I said before it must be a regional accent thing and no, I don't say 'kit' for quit.

I grew up in Missouri pronouncing "quarter" with no "kw" sound: kore-ter. No idea why that one qu- word was pronounced without the "kw," but that's just how we said it.  I don't even notice the difference . . . just as I don't hear any difference between "pin" and "pen."  I'm a stickler for grammar, but I try not to snark too much on people's accents . . . unless they're really stupid ones!  ;-)

[MyAimIsTrue]

Pin and pen are distinctly different for me as are Mary, merry, and marry.

 

I just talked to my fellow Lawn Guyland native coworker and he also says kore-ters.  We then compared addtional words and both of us say kort for the unit of measurement (quart) but kwortz for the stone (quartz).  I love stuff like this.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I SUFFERED through an entire Wen infomercial last night waiting on "kore-ters", and she never said it.  Where is she doing this? 

She says it in the UNICEF commercials, and yeah, I was waiting on it when I saw her shilling for WEN.

 

I've pronounced it as 'kore-ters' my entire life and never thought two ways about it.  Like I said before it must be a regional accent thing and no, I don't say 'kit' for quit.

Heh, it probably is regional. Alyssa is from Bensonhurst (or Bensonhoist, if you prefer) but it just drives me batshit for some reason.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Bensonhoist, hehe.  It's no big deal as a lot of stuff drives me batshit crazy as well.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

So, here's a question. Is it 'impotence' or 'impotency'? I was watching an old episode of SVU earlier where Stabler and Benson were interviewing this doctor at a hospital, and Olivia kept saying impotency. It sounds wrong, but I don't know if it actually is. Anyone?

[Wings]

So, here's a question. Is it 'impotence' or 'impotency'? I was watching an old episode of SVU earlier where Stabler and Benson were interviewing this doctor at a hospital, and Olivia kept saying impotency. It sounds wrong, but I don't know if it actually is. Anyone?

 

 

Impotency is not a word.  The term is impotent.  TV shows are usually on top of using correct words.  Odd. 

Edited September 13, 2014 by wings707

[dcalley]

"Impotency" is a word. It means impotence. Those are both nouns, and "impotent" is the adjective. And I guess I've spent too long thinking about these words, because all three are looking mighty weird to me now.