Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Brookside said:

On 9/5/2019 at 10:35 AM, shapeshifter said:

I just heard that hair regrowth commercial again with the grammar gaff that manages to bug me even more than anything else in the commercial:

. 

Gaffe not gaff

Argh. Too late for me to edit. Can a grammar gaffe also be a gaff in that it feels like you’re being stabbed and/or your mind has been hooked on something that won’t let go?

Edited September 14, 2019 by shapeshifter

[jenniferhartwell]

On gender vs sex, I think sex should be always used for children too young enough to meaningfully self-identify a gender.  

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, jenniferhartwell said:

On gender vs sex, I think sex should be always used for children too young enough to meaningfully self-identify a gender.  

For very young children or for those missing top teeth (around ages 5-7) it’s probably easier for them to enunciate “gender” than “sex.”

[shapeshifter]

I seem to be the only one who thinks that the PrimeTimer "Ultimate Emmys Bracket" links to Full details in our kick-off page should be edited to read:

Quote

Each show was ranked by total Emmy nominations in 2019. The top 6 seeds were granted a bye into round 2. 

instead of:

Quote

Each show was ranked by total Emmy nominations in 2019. The top 6 seeds were granted a buy-in to round 2. 

[Bastet]

A "bye" is having a round off from play; a team (or, in this case, show) is ranked highly enough by the rules of the tournament that its slot is assured and it gets a rest while the others duke it out for the remaining slots, and then competition proceeds in subsequent rounds.  This Emmy bracket is based on sports tournaments, thus the terminology.

(It's not just tournament play; there's also a bye week in regular season play in some sports.  It just refers to when a team does not play in a given round of competition.)

Edited September 17, 2019 by Bastet

[topanga]

On 9/9/2019 at 5:07 PM, chenoa333 said:

I thought it was a combo of "well" and "yep". But that's probably my Ohio roots.

So that’s why Steve Harvey says “welp” a lot. You’re both from the Buckeye state. 

On 9/9/2019 at 4:27 AM, jenniferhartwell said:

Of course, nerds should accept a lot of the negative shit they get. If you are going to throw around your knowledge and act as if it makes you better than ordinary people, don't complain when the ordinary people hate you for it. Usage always trumps pedantry in the real world.

The best grammar nerds don’t go around snobbishly correcting people’s grammar to their faces. Instead, we silently judge them then come here to lament how dumb society has become. Or more accurately, how little people care about language these days. 

[jenniferhartwell]

There was an interview on a "Battle of the Brains" type science documentary and the teenage girl geek with the staggering IQ and five Nobel Prizes etc. says her map of the night time sky on her wall was "much better looking than pictures of male celebrities' - I just thought "If you are going to look down at ordinary teenage girls like that, you DESERVE any bullying you have gotten!"

[topanga]

1 minute ago, jenniferhartwell said:

There was an interview on a "Battle of the Brains" type science documentary and the teenage girl geek with the staggering IQ and five Nobel Prizes etc. says her map of the night time sky on her wall was "much better looking than pictures of male celebrities' - I just thought "If you are going to look down at ordinary teenage girls like that, you DESERVE any bullying you have gotten!"

As a high school kid, I loved math and science. But Rob Lowe’s blue eyes and bare midriff were the most important things on my bedroom wall. 

[Lugal]

On 9/19/2019 at 8:03 PM, topanga said:

Instead, we silently judge them then come here to lament how dumb society has become. Or more accurately, how little people care about language these days.

I love a good lament on how dumb society is getting, but more often I find myself fascinated with how language is changing before our eyes.  It's weird what sets me off and what doesn't.  For example, misplaced apostrophes usually don't bother me (since they've been confusing the shit out of us since the 14th century) but things like *did'nt and *would'nt really piss me off.

On 9/19/2019 at 8:26 PM, topanga said:

As a high school kid, I loved math and science. But Rob Lowe’s blue eyes and bare midriff were the most important things on my bedroom wall.

Pretty much the same for me, except swap out history for math and Cindy Crawford for Rob Lowe.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Lugal said:

.  For example, misplaced apostrophes usually don't bother me (since they've been confusing the shit out of us since the 14th century) but things like *did'nt and *would'nt really piss me off

I’ve never seen “did'nt” or “would'nt,” so I can’t honestly say how I’d react, but if I knew the writer spoke with a glottal stop speech pattern, I would try to let it go. 

And, FWIW, on my teenage bedroom wall was a picture of the always grammatically correct Robert Vaughn, star of Man From U.N.C.L.E.  

[AuntiePam]

One of the worst "literally" offenders is Chanel West Coast on Ridiculousness.  (It's a video clip show on MTV.)  She uses the word two or three times on every episode, and never correctly.   Looks like it's something we'll just have to accept from that age group. 

Last night in ten minutes on Live PD I heard "I had ran the plate", along with the usual "had went" and "had came", as well as "argument between he and his wife". 

Sports shows are just as bad, and the problem isn't just with athlete commentators.  The journalists aren't much better.  It's especially egregious in football, where the discussion frequently includes running -- run the play, run the field, run the route, run down the receiver, run the clock, etc.  Hearing "had ran" multiple times in the same broadcast -- it begins to sound correct, and that's scary.

[Lugal]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I’ve never seen “did'nt” or “would'nt,” so I can’t honestly say how I’d react, but if I knew the writer spoke with a glottal stop speech pattern, I would try to let it go.

I've seen it on T-shirts.  In public.

The glottal stop doesn't bother me as much because I can see the /t/ to /ʔ/ as an ongoing sound shift, although it is weird to hear /important/ pronounced as /imporʔanʔ/ and one time I heard an actress drop a glottal stop entirely so it came out as /imporanʔ/

[Milburn Stone]

On 9/21/2019 at 5:01 PM, Lugal said:

I love a good lament on how dumb society is getting

You should read Anthony Trollope's The Way We Live Now (1875).

[shapeshifter]

On 9/8/2019 at 9:10 AM, shapeshifter said:

New use of "Stop!"

In the past couple of months I have been startled when each of 3 Millennials —of varying race, income, and education— has interjected into a conversation, "Stop!" accompanied by a grin or, if conveyed via text message, immediately followed by "LOL."

Is it from a TV show?
Maybe a reality show (I don't watch those)?

What is up with this new use of "Stop!"?

Maybe the next time I hear "Stop!" used this way, I will burst out singing the Supremes' "Stop! In the Name of Love," but then if the person just says "Stop!" again, it might be because of my singing.

I heard this weird use of "Stop!" again yesterday from a physical therapist.

And then here it is again right before the 4 minute mark (3:58):

I guess it's like the use of "bad" to mean "good" a couple of decades ago.

Or not.

Edited September 24, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Milburn Stone]

3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I heard this weird use of "Stop!" again yesterday from a physical therapist.

And then here it is again right before the 4 minute mark (3:58):

I guess it's like the use of "bad" to mean "good" a couple of decades ago.

Or not.

This new use of "stop" doesn't bug me that much, but in any case I don't think it's directly analogous to "bad" meaning "good."  Here is how I read it: "What you just did or said is overwhelming me with so much joyful emotion, I don't think I can handle it. I literally am about to burst with joy, and there will be guts all over the room, and neither of us wants that."

[SuprSuprElevated]

"Flustrated"

🤦‍♀️ 

[QueerGirrl]

No, just no.

[BlackberryJam]

It’s a character arc, not a character arch. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by BlackberryJam
Hahah...I used the wrong article. *shame*

[shapeshifter]

On 9/25/2019 at 6:09 AM, SuprSuprElevated said:

"Flustrated"

🤦‍♀️

"Flustrated" is okay because it's a new word.

22 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

It’s a character arc, not a character arch. 

A character arch is never okay unless maybe the show is a reality competition for budding architects. 

ETA: 

—and that would be a “contestant arch,” not a “character arc.”

Edited September 26, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Lugal]

5 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

It’s a character arc, not a character arch. 

If people start talking about character arches, I'm afraid it will draw in the foot fetish weirdos.

[Brookside]

Thank you NPR:  "You see how beautiful their song is"

Also, "Off of".

It's vinaigrette, not vinegarette.

1 hour ago, Brookside said:

Edited September 26, 2019 by Brookside
Because I keep thinking of more things that piss me off.

[Silver Raven]

Local weather guy just said, reporting on the snow in the mountains, that the snow is "causing visibility."

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Local weather guy just said, reporting on the snow in the mountains, that the snow is "causing visibility."

Confession: Last week when making a follow-up appointment in December, I opted for the latest morning appointment "in case we have weather." 
I like to think this is a local colloquialism that can be excused because if one is outside when we are "having weather" most communication is silent, and the fewest words possible are used.

[ABay]

I spent Saturday grading an assignment that required freshmen to write short answers to a dozen questions. Several times, orally and in writing, I told them spelling and grammar would count as part of the grade and urged them to proof-read and get help. About half the class got the lowest possible grade just because I lost count of the problems. WTF? I don't even know what to say to them today.

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, ABay said:

I spent Saturday grading an assignment that required freshmen to write short answers to a dozen questions. Several times, orally and in writing, I told them spelling and grammar would count as part of the grade and urged them to proof-read and get help. About half the class got the lowest possible grade just because I lost count of the problems. WTF? I don't even know what to say to them today.

Maybe you could begin with something like: "It seems many of you think that there are separate grammar rules for "short answers" and "long answers."

[SuprSuprElevated]

Screen time spent using and reading textcabulary is the bane of grammar/spelling in my opinion.

Edited September 30, 2019 by SuprSuprElevated

[rainsmom]

34 minutes ago, ABay said:

I spent Saturday grading an assignment that required freshmen to write short answers to a dozen questions. Several times, orally and in writing, I told them spelling and grammar would count as part of the grade and urged them to proof-read and get help. About half the class got the lowest possible grade just because I lost count of the problems. WTF? I don't even know what to say to them today.

You say, "You failed, and you will fail every time you write like this in my class. Welcome to the real world where you're expected to communicate like grownups."

Edited September 30, 2019 by rainsmom

[Brookside]

From a commercial for Vraylar:  "The ups and downs of frequent mood swings can plummet you."  No, they can't.

[rur]

Is anyone else shaking their head in disbelief every time Jennifer Garner says "cumberbund" in the Capital One commercial?

[Milburn Stone]

8 hours ago, rur said:

Is anyone else shaking their head in disbelief every time Jennifer Garner says "cumberbund" in the Capital One commercial?

I haven't seen the commercial, but you made me curious to investigate the word, since I learned it as cumberbund from the time I went to my first prom in the Pleistocene Age and have pronounced the first "b" ever since. Well, knock me over with a feather--it's cummerbund. I've learned something new! Thank you.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[rur]

7 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

 Well, knock me over with a feather--it's cummerbund. I've learned something new! Thank you.

You're welcome. 

I'm having trouble believing nobody on the advertising team, the Capital One team, or Jennifer Garner's team knew there was no "b".

[SuprSuprElevated]

This cummerbund thing has me flummoxed.  I too would have bet my life that it was cumberbund.  Wonder why/when the errant 'b' appeared?  Generally, the trend is to make difficult words easier, but here, cummerbund is the easier and correct word.

🤷‍♀️

Edited October 7, 2019 by SuprSuprElevated

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, rur said:

I'm having trouble believing nobody on the advertising team, the Capital One team, or Jennifer Garner's team knew there was no "b".

I'm not; I think the majority of people say it wrong.

[rur]

Nevertheless, a spell check (or -- gasp -- a human proofreader)  should have caught it. Heck, the spell checker here kept trying to correct the misspelling. 

Here's an article about the word's derivation. https://www.irregardlessmagazine.com/articles/etymology-of-cummerbund/

Although the author uses "cumber" as a source of the stray "b", I would think it might come from "encumber."

[shapeshifter]

23 minutes ago, rur said:

Nevertheless, a spell check (or -- gasp -- a human proofreader)  should have caught it. Heck, the spell checker here kept trying to correct the misspelling. 

Here's an article about the word's derivation. https://www.irregardlessmagazine.com/articles/etymology-of-cummerbund/

Although the author uses "cumber" as a source of the stray "b", I would think it might come from "encumber."

Not "cucumber?" Heh.

I now have a reason to be glad for having lived a very long life without having ever attended an event where a cummerbund was worn, where I would have surely mispronounced it, and where there surely would have been someone to notice my gaffe.

It wouldn't surprise me if the spellchecker did flag it, and the typist assumed the term just wasn't in the word processor's dictionary and then clicked "ignore."

[Mittengirl]

I would bet big money that if the commercial had Garner pronounce it as “cummerbund”, a huge majority of people would be talking about how stupid she/they are for pronouncing the word incorrectly.

They could either be judged as dumb by 25% of the audience or 75%.  Might as well have fewer potential customers thinking of you as wrong.

[Annber03]

Was on the National Weather Service website earlier today, reading an article in which they were talking about potential systems coming in later in the week, and saw this:

Quote

Guidance varies on the timing of these features and the strength of moisture return, resulting in too much uncertainty to include severe probs at this time, but this system bares watching over the coming days.

[Milburn Stone]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Was on the National Weather Service website earlier today, reading an article in which they were talking about potential systems coming in later in the week, and saw this:

Raises the question of which will destroy us first: climate change, or illiteracy?

[rur]

Ultimately it will be illiteracy -- because people won't be able to read the warnings when the change becomes more severe.

[topanga]

What bugs me almost as much as the incorrect ‘Literally’ is the unnecessary ‘Literally.’

I was listening to an interview the other day:

”I literally woke up with a hangover.”

And later, the interviewer asked, “How did it feel when someone you trusted literally betrayed you?” YOU DONT NEED TO SAY ‘LITERALLY,’ LADY!!!

[Milburn Stone]

17 hours ago, topanga said:

What bugs me almost as much as the incorrect ‘Literally’ is the unnecessary ‘Literally.’

I was listening to an interview the other day:

”I literally woke up with a hangover.”

And later, the interviewer asked, “How did it feel when someone you trusted literally betrayed you?” YOU DONT NEED TO SAY ‘LITERALLY,’ LADY!!!

That's a good point that I haven't thought about much (because it doesn't bug me that much, but you're right). Makes me realize that a good rule of thumb would be, "Is there anyone who would use metaphorically in this sentence instead?" No one would say, "I metaphorically woke up with a hangover." What would that even mean? No one would say, "My wife metaphorically betrayed me." Either she betrayed you or she didn't! 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[Anduin]

10 hours ago, topanga said:

What bugs me almost as much as the incorrect ‘Literally’ is the unnecessary ‘Literally.’

I was listening to an interview the other day:

”I literally woke up with a hangover.”

And later, the interviewer asked, “How did it feel when someone you trusted literally betrayed you?” YOU DONT NEED TO SAY ‘LITERALLY,’ LADY!!!

ITA. Furthermore, needless to say and not to mention. If it's needless, why are you saying it? You're mentioning that you aren't mentioning it? I wonder if other languages have trouble with such stupid words and phrases.

[Milburn Stone]

7 hours ago, Anduin said:

ITA. Furthermore, needless to say and not to mention. If it's needless, why are you saying it? You're mentioning that you aren't mentioning it? I wonder if other languages have trouble with such stupid words and phrases.

I have the identical problem with "obviously," which is inserted into so much written and spoken communication. If it's obvious, there's no need to say whatever it is you're saying. If there's a need to say whatever it is you're saying, I guess it's not that obvious!

[Suzn]

On 10/7/2019 at 5:22 PM, SuprSuprElevated said:

This cummerbund thing has me flummoxed.  I too would have bet my life that it was cumberbund.  Wonder why/when the errant 'b' appeared?  Generally, the trend is to make difficult words easier, but here, cummerbund is the easier and correct word.

🤷‍♀️

My guess is that the name Benedict Cumberbatch has helped in making the unnecessary first "b" sound right.  I think I've always said cummerbund, but find myself easily convinced that the extra "b" is correct!

[SuprSuprElevated]

6 minutes ago, Suzn said:

My guess is that the name Benedict Cumberbatch has helped in making the unnecessary first "b" sound right.  I think I've always said cummerbund, but find myself easily convinced that the extra "b" is correct!

For me, that's a nah.  I know who the actor is, but he's never been on my radar.

[Lugal]

36 minutes ago, Suzn said:

My guess is that the name Benedict Cumberbatch has helped in making the unnecessary first "b" sound right.  I think I've always said cummerbund, but find myself easily convinced that the extra "b" is correct!

I think it's a form of assimilation where the /b/ in bund is anticipated and stuck onto the /m/ since they are similar sounds, and possibly connected to the word cumber

[ABay]

I like @Lugal's reason. Even though I know how it's spelled, I still say cumberbund.

[shapeshifter]

The punctuation on this sign really bugged me (although the voice of musician Liam Gallagher may have annoyed me even more).

The first apostrophe is facing the wrong way to be an apostrophe, so it looks like the N is in quotes instead of representing the "and" between Rock and Roll. It should be: Rock ’n’ Roll. 
I understand how it happened --that the sign text was originally typed on a computer using Word (unless there's another word processing program that  autocorrects quote marks to be opening and closing) -- and that even though a sign that big must've been seen by a lot of people before it went on stage, none of them knew how to fix it. 
But if I was there (or many of you reading this), it would have been fixed. Right?

(as seen on The Tonight Show, October 28-29, 2019)

Edited October 29, 2019 by shapeshifter

[SVNBob]

7 hours ago, Suzn said:

My guess is that the name Benedict Cumberbatch has helped in making the unnecessary first "b" sound right. 

Doubtful.  I thought it was a cumberbund long before Mr. Bandersnatch (and the associated memes) entered the zeitgeist.

[Brookside]

The Charmin bears commercials, which are already unbearable:  "I'm not picking it up.  You pick it up," "I'm not picking it up."  "I'll pick it up because they're clean."