Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Silver Raven]

4 minutes ago, topanga said:

something being Stan (I don't know what that one means)

Stanning means being an extreme fan.  It comes from the Eminem song "Stan", about a super fan who winds up killing himself and his girlfriend.

[Ohwell]

Good grief, I'm old.

[Milburn Stone]

23 minutes ago, topanga said:

I hear young people constantly talking about spilling tea, being thirsty, something being Awk [ward], something being Stan (I don't know what that one means), flaming on people, etc.

And I don't know what spilling tea is!

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Milburn Stone said:

And I don't know what spilling tea is!

Telling the blunt truth about something, basically :). 

[Ohwell]

15 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Telling the blunt truth about something, basically :). 

And I thought it was gossip, mainly about celebrities. : ) 

I hear that phrase a lot on shows like Access Hollywood.

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

And I thought it was gossip, mainly about celebrities. : ) 

I hear that phrase a lot on shows like Access Hollywood.

It can be that, too, yes :D. Figured those kind of celeb gossip shows would use terms like that. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

And I don't know what spilling tea is!

It's new to me too.
I'm not sure which of these first posted the alleged origin, but both "English Language and Usage" on Stack Exchange and the Urban Dictionary claim:

Quote

It comes from the idea of having old Southern tea parties in the South to gossip behind people's back.

--which makes sense, now that I know. 

Yesterday I was talking to a native Russian speaker who was handling a car rental for me paid for by the car repair place. I was comparing the premium service I was receiving with the poor service at a car rental place that I recently paid for that was about 25% the normal price. I said that the cheap place was "fly by night" and realized the Russian immigrant didn't know what I meant, so I just said that it was a "figure of speech." He was probably smart enough to extrapolate the meaning from the context.
  
  

Edited June 20, 2019 by shapeshifter
missing link

[Milburn Stone]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I said that the cheap place was "fly by night" and realized the Russian immigrant didn't know what I meant, so I just said that it was a "figure of speech." He was probably smart enough to extrapolate the meaning from the context.

You make me realize that I've never thought about the origin of that phrase. (And it's fun to guess, so I'm going to guess instead of looking it up.) I'm imagining it came about to describe swindlers and such who would take a town's money, and then quietly leave under cover of darkness one night, never to be seen by those townsfolk again.

But it could refer to certain species of birds considered undesirable or disreputable, who only fly at night, never during the day! Or it could go back only a hundred or so years, if air travel was cheaper when you flew at night. Or, maybe it originates in WW1 or WW2, when stealthy bombing raids were carried out after dark. But my gut says it's the first explanation.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[shapeshifter]

22 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

You make me realize that I've never thought about the origin of that phrase. (And it's fun to guess, so I'm going to guess instead of looking it up.) I'm imagining it came about to describe swindlers and such who would take a town's money, and then quietly leave under cover of darkness one night, never to be seen by those townsfolk again.

But it could refer to certain species of birds considered undesirable or disreputable, who only fly at night, never during the day! Or it could go back only a hundred or so years, if air travel was cheaper when you flew at night. Or, maybe it originates in WW1 or WW2, when stealthy bombing raids were carried out after dark. But my gut says it's the first explanation.

It is probably useful to first guess at the origin of an idiom, because that is what someone not familiar with a saying will be doing.

Surprisingly, the OED records this first meaning from 1796 (but copied here from dictionary.com):

Quote

1796, slang, said to be an old term of reproach to a woman signifying that she was a witch; extended 1823 to "anyone who departs hastily from a recent activity," especially while owing money. The two senses involve the two verbs fly

When I used fly-by-night to describe the cheap car rental agency that has several bait-and-switch practices to raise the rates for those who are not willing to confront the clerks and jump through hoops — fly-by-night probably came to mind because this particular car rental business had a handmade for-sale sign on the building.

Edited June 22, 2019 by shapeshifter
clarity

[Brookside]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:57 AM, Sandman87 said:

Seen on the back of a truck: "Driver's wanted." I took it to mean that the driver is on the run from the police.

The beloved grocer's (or even grocers') apostrophe - it's never going to go away.  (Not sure why cakes doesn't deserve one.) 

[Milburn Stone]

4 hours ago, Brookside said:

The beloved grocer's (or even grocers') apostrophe - it's never going to go away.  (Not sure why cakes doesn't deserve one.) 

If I had to guess an actual reason for this scourge, it would be that certain words "look wrong" to ignorant people in a way that other words don't. This grocer thinks "PIES," "PASTIES," and "SANDWICHES" look weird, and therefore must be wrong, while "CAKES" looks normal to him and therefore must be right.

[Brookside]

"Influencer."  At this point I have no hope that it will ever go away, but the very existence of this word is a tragedy on more than one level.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Brookside

[Sandman87]

Speaking of words that look wrong, "souvenirs" tops my list.

[topanga]

19 hours ago, Sandman87 said:

Speaking of words that look wrong, "souvenirs" tops my list.

‘Jeopardy.’ That ‘o’ just kills me. LOL 

[fairffaxx]

Oh dear -- she did it again!  In Part 2 of the DNC candidates' debate last night, Kamala Harris misspoke:  she said that Pres Trump is "flouting his great economy" as an achievement, when the correct verb was "flaunting".  This is a common error but I would have expected her to be above it, despite her previous misuse of "infer" for "imply" when questioning Atty General Barr (about something I've forgotten).

Even more distressing is the fact that no one pointed out either error at the time and I haven't seen anyone do so yet.  Politicians, pundits, and journalists all seem to have ignored both mistakes -- or, perhaps more likely, don't recognize an egregious vocabulary goof when they hear it.   Or maybe they just don't want to sound like prissy pedants (which never bothered William Safire, RIP).      

[Cobalt Stargazer]

C'mon, man.

[Brookside]

Interwebs.

I don't know why I hate this word so much, but I do.

[Mittengirl]

13 hours ago, Brookside said:

Interwebs.

I don't know why I hate this word so much, but I do.

Because people think they are being clever when they use it?  (They are not.)

[Milburn Stone]

16 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

Because people think they are being clever when they use it?  (They are not.)

It's interesting (to me, anyway) to try to analyze what this "cleverness" (that isn't) consists of. It's a very performative word, in the sense that the speaker seems to be adopting the persona of a character he believes to be much more ignorant than himself. The word identifies the "character" as a person confused by new-fangled technology and its vocabulary, and the audibly performative nature of the word signals that the speaker is not that person; the speaker also flatters his audience by conveying that he knows they know he is performing, and that each of his hearers is not that person either. The shared presumption of superiority is obnoxious.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[shapeshifter]

49 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

It's interesting (to me, anyway) to try to analyze what this "cleverness" (that isn't) consists of. It's a very performative word, in the sense that the speaker seems to be adopting the persona of a character he believes to be much more ignorant than himself. The word identifies the "character" as a person confused by new-fangled technology and its vocabulary, and the audibly performative nature of the word signals that the speaker is not that person; the speaker also flatters his audience by conveying that he knows they know he is performing, and that each of his hearers is not that person either. The shared presumption of superiority is obnoxious.

Or, the speaker is "adopting the persona of a character he believes to be" "confused by new-fangled technology and its vocabulary." I've known at least one person like this, but he also considers himself (and wants to be considered) intelligent and educated and culturally savvy enough to know about this technology that he still resists mastering.

[Milburn Stone]

Yes, a different kind of smug superiority. ("I know interwebs is not the right word, and I'm using it to show that unlike you fools who are slaves to the internet, I exist on a higher plane and will one day rule you all.")

[SuprSuprElevated]

Overthink.  Now there's a word.

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Overthink.  Now there's a word.

I like that word, as a word. Very communicative. However, the meaning it always conveys, that I take issue with. It's always meant critically. And I find the people who use it to disparage those who they believe "think things to death" are often guilty of underthinking.

I know that of the two, I'd much rather be guilty of overthinking than underthinking. If anybody around has a magical way of knowing exactly the right amount of thinking, neither too much nor too little, he should patent it.

[shapeshifter]

31 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

3 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Overthink.  Now there's a word.

I like that word, as a word. Very communicative. However, the meaning it always conveys, that I take issue with. It's always meant critically. And I find the people who use it to disparage those who they believe "think things to death" are often guilty of underthinking.

I know that of the two, I'd much rather be guilty of overthinking than underthinking. If anybody around has a magical way of knowing exactly the right amount of thinking, neither too much nor too little, he should patent it.

I've been guilty (more times than I can count) of beginning with, "I'm probably overthinking this, but . . ." as a tactic to get someone who is set on one opinion to consider mine. 
Does that put me somewhere on the sociopath or narcissist spectrums? 
I'm probably overthinking this. 😉 

[fairffaxx]

I've been hearing this on local and national and international news for many years:  "We want to warn viewers that the video you're about to see is graphic".  I appreciate being warned about ugly, sickening, disgusting content, but I don't need to be told that pictures are "graphic", since that's what the word means -- literally!

[Brookside]

I thought you guys would appreciate the fact that Christie from The Amazing Race said about a tense situation, "My heart was literally beating in my chest."

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Brookside said:

I thought you guys would appreciate the fact that Christie from The Amazing Race said about a tense situation, "My heart was literally beating in my chest."

That warms my heart
(but not literally).

[Haleth]

On the Today Show the other day they were talking about game shows and a placard read "Family Fued."  Ugh.  (Ok, not grammar but don't interns use spell check?)

Edited July 10, 2019 by Haleth

[Milburn Stone]

10 minutes ago, Haleth said:

On the Today Show the other day they were talking about game shows and placard read "Family Fued."  Ugh.  (Ok, not grammar but don't interns use spell check?)

This is getting worse and worse. Years ago you might see this sort of thing on a local news show in Dayton or something. Then later you began seeing it on local news in major markets. Then later you began seeing it on national cable news. And now we're seeing it on nationally broadcast television from the "big 4." Interns, shminterns--what about the adults who are supposed to be overseeing the interns?

[Browncoat]

My local paper has an ad in the classifieds section for "Great Dame" puppies.

[rainsmom]

3 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

My local paper has an ad in the classifieds section for "Great Dame" puppies.

Snort. If I see one more ad for "rockwilers"...

[Mittengirl]

I once saw a newspaper ad for rototiller pups.  I don’t know if it was a typo or truth in advertising.  Either way, I laughed so hard I sprained a lung.

[Gurkel]

19 hours ago, Brookside said:

I thought you guys would appreciate the fact that Christie from The Amazing Race said about a tense situation, "My heart was literally beating in my chest."

I'd hope so.  LOL

2 hours ago, Browncoat said:

My local paper has an ad in the classifieds section for "Great Dame" puppies.

2 hours ago, rainsmom said:

Snort. If I see one more ad for "rockwilers"...

1 hour ago, Mittengirl said:

I once saw a newspaper ad for rototiller pups.  I don’t know if it was a typo or truth in advertising.  Either way, I laughed so hard I sprained a lung.

I'm proud of you all for reading your local newspapers. You're giving print journalism life.

[shapeshifter]

Does the word "posted" serve any purpose?

[rainsmom]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Does the word "posted" serve any purpose?

Nope.

Just to cover my ass, I checked to see if the word "posted" had to be on a sign in any state in the US, and it does not. 

[shapeshifter]

Posting this just because I can:

[ABay]

Not a teal deer.

[Brookside]

Gloria Vanderbilt, a woman famed from birth as the last of a Gilded Age clan of millionaires, as the subject of a toxic 1934 child custody trial, as an early inventor of designer jeans, and lately as the mother of CNN's Anderson Cooper, has died.

Not only do we have the unforgiveable phrase "Famed from birth," but the 36 words between subject and verb render the sentence incomprehensible without rereading.

[Brookside]

Why has a sentence like "I would like you to make your bed", become "I would like for you to make your bed?"

Where has that "for" come from, and why?

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Brookside said:

Why has a sentence like "I would like you to make your bed", become "I would like for you to make your bed?"

Where has that "for" come from, and why?

I think it's use may have originated with speakers for whom English is a second language. 

[fairffaxx]

Within the last hour, MSNBC ran a chyron announcing that the USA has destroyed an Iranian drone over "the Straight of Hormuz".  They've now corrected the spelling, and they're probably not the only network to make that error.  The news itself is depressing too, of course. 

[Brookside]

"Some Facebook users said the situation shedded light . . ." 

I get that "Some Facebook users" are ignorant, but I do wish that mainstream TV networks (looking at you, ABC News) would hire editors/newscasters with at least a basic knowledge of grammar and vocabulary. 

[annzeepark914]

I love reading all these posts. 

What does "dope" mean? When people say, "I think that is so dope", are they really saying they think 'that is so stupid'?

[biakbiak]

27 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

I love reading all these posts. 

What does "dope" mean? When people say, "I think that is so dope", are they really saying they think 'that is so stupid'?

Dope = cool/awesome.

[SuprSuprElevated]

7 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I love reading all these posts. 

What does "dope" mean? When people say, "I think that is so dope", are they really saying they think 'that is so stupid'?

A good reference for contemporary 'speak' urbandictionary.com

In general, "dope" means really good.

[Mittengirl]

When did “welp” become a replacement for “well” - as in “Welp, that episode sucked!” - and why?

Edited July 22, 2019 by Mittengirl

[DearEvette]

31 minutes ago, Mittengirl said:

When did “welp” become a replacement for “well” - as in “Welp, that episode sucked!” - and why?

I don't know the etymology, but I always think of 'welp'  = 'well' + a tone of disappointment or resignation.  So not necessarily a one-to-one replacement for 'well.'  More like "oh well."

[bijoux]

I honestly never made the connection between welp and well. I just assumed the former meant yikes based on context. 

[FormerMod-a1]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

I honestly never made the connection between welp and well. I just assumed the former meant yikes based on context. 

Pretty much the same.  To me it had a <gulp> in it.  

[Milburn Stone]

I like all 3 interpretations that have been given of "welp," and to me a key word is in @DearEvette's post: "resignation." So, it's not always about disappointment (although it can be); it can also be resignation to a fate about to happen. Like when your friends have pressured you to join them on a scary amusement park ride that you really don't want to get on, and you say, "Welp, here goes nothing!"

Edited July 22, 2019 by Milburn Stone