Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Cinnabon]

“All y’all” will never fail to make me laugh. 

[Browncoat]

I do use "y'all" all the time.  And I use "all y'all" if there's a big group of people and I want to emphasize that everyone is included.  But "y'all" is never singular, and it's also not "ya"ll" or any other spelling.

I've heard "you-uns" in east Tennessee.

[Bastet]

I think "y'all" is a useful addition to a language that doesn't have a distinct second person plural pronoun.  "You guys" is gendered, and the others are very region-specific, so "y'all" for the win in casual speech/writing.

And "all y'all" is just fun, as in "fuck all y'all".

[Lugal]

1 hour ago, SweetieDarling said:

I'm from the Phila area. If I am reading the word, I will pronounce it "creek", but if I am talking about one, like the Neshaminy, or the small that ran through our neighborhood, it's a "crick".

It's interesting how context-dependent creek vs. crick is.

1 hour ago, SweetieDarling said:

I grew up with "you guys"  (suburbs) and will only use "y'all" in jest (f*#@ all y'all!). I find regional dialects and pronunciations fascinating.

I also grew up in Southeastern PA and mostly heard you guys or occasionally youse guys.  But there is something about the phrase "f*ck all y'all" that just so perfectly distills the sentiment.

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

“All y’all” will never fail to make me laugh.

I have read that some dialects, y'all has become singular and all y'all is the new plural.

[SuprSuprElevated]

When discussing or addressing a group (2 or more), informally, I default to folks.

I have no doubt that this grinds the gears of some, but I desperately dislike 'guys' or 'you guys', and I'm not comfortable with y'all, being a Yankee 'n all.  Feels like appropriation. 😁

[SoMuchTV]

3 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

When discussing or addressing a group (2 or more), informally, I default to folks.

I have no doubt that this grinds the gears of some, but I desperately dislike 'guys' or 'you guys', and I'm not comfortable with y'all, being a Yankee 'n all.  Feels like appropriation. 😁

Well it definitely beats “you people”. 

[Leeds]

7 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I try to make sure my posts are well written and thoughtful but sometimes all that needs to be said is oh for fuck sake.  My fellow View watchers will understand.

Since this is a grammar police thread, I hope it's okay to ask whether that shouldn't be "for fuck's sake"?

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

When discussing or addressing a group (2 or more), informally, I default to folks.

I have no doubt that this grinds the gears of some, but I desperately dislike 'guys' or 'you guys', and I'm not comfortable with y'all, being a Yankee 'n all.  Feels like appropriation. 😁

I agree. I settled on “you all” because I’m not southern and “y’all” would be inauthentic coming from me.

15 minutes ago, Leeds said:

Since this is a grammar police thread, I hope it's okay to ask whether that shouldn't be "for fuck's sake"?

Yes, lol. What truly irritates me is “the fuck.” Why did “what the fuck” need to be shortened? 🤦‍♀️

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

Yes, lol. What truly irritates me is “the fuck.” Why did “what the fuck” need to be shortened? 🤦‍♀️

Because the thoughtlessness of those whose actions or decisions triggered our exasperation is not worthy of more than a 2-word reaction?

Note deliberate decision to use sentence fragment above.

[bluegirl147]

5 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Yes, lol. What truly irritates me is “the fuck.” Why did “what the fuck” need to be shortened? 🤦‍♀️

The fuck is better than da fuck.

[Milburn Stone]

I, a Northerner, find myself using "y'all" when I'm talking to the New Orleans branch of the family. 

You know how people will unconsciously use bodily gestures to signal affinity? Like, if you're sitting across from someone whose hands are folded, you'll fold yours without even knowing you're doing it, and vice versa? It's the same with language.

In this case it may not even make sense, because: 1) I don't know if they even say "y'all" in New Orleans. 2) The New Orleans branch of the family is not even from New Orleans. They moved there from the mid-Atlantic states 25 years ago. I find myself saying "y'all" to them anyway. I suppose it's semi-conscious. I'm really saying, "I get that you live in the South now, and I forgive you."

6 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

What truly irritates me is “the fuck.” Why did “what the fuck” need to be shortened?

Yeah, that one strikes me as really inauthentic when I hear it. Like, the speaker doesn't really talk that way, they heard someone else say it somewhere and thought it was cool, and now they want to seem cool too.

(I apologize for using the plural pronoun in that last sentence. I suppose I've surrendered.)

Edited August 27, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[shapeshifter]

35 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

…and now they want to seem cool too.

(I apologize for using the plural pronoun in that last sentence. I suppose I've surrendered.)

No apology needed. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

6 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Yes, lol. What truly irritates me is “the fuck.” Why did “what the fuck” need to be shortened? 🤦‍♀️

The Fuck kitty gives no fucks about your fucking opinion.

(please know that I kid here, just couldn't resist)

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

The fuck is better than da fuck.

Definitely!

4 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I, a Northerner, find myself using "y'all" when I'm talking to the New Orleans branch of the family. 

You know how people will unconsciously use bodily gestures to signal affinity? Like, if you're sitting across from someone whose hands are folded, you'll fold yours without even knowing you're doing it, and vice versa? It's the same with language.

In this case it may not even make sense, because: 1) I don't know if they even say "y'all" in New Orleans. 2) The New Orleans branch of the family is not even from New Orleans. They moved there from the mid-Atlantic states 25 years ago. I find myself saying "y'all" to them anyway. I suppose it's semi-conscious. I'm really saying, "I get that you live in the South now, and I forgive you."

Yeah, that one strikes me as really inauthentic when I hear it. Like, the speaker doesn't really talk that way, they heard someone else say it somewhere and thought it was cool, and now they want to seem cool too.

(I apologize for using the plural pronoun in that last sentence. I suppose I've surrendered.)

Also, it’s “WTF,” damn it! 🤣 Not everything needs to be shortened or turned into an acronym/initialism.

[Bastet]

18 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Well it definitely beats “you people”. 

[shapeshifter]

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 8/26/2022 at 6:13 PM, SoMuchTV said:

Well it definitely beats “you people”. 

On 8/27/2022 at 12:24 PM, Bastet said:

[Leeds]

I'm feeling grumpy today so I am using this forum to put out a few of the kind of phrases from cooking shows that irritate me.

"To the (ingredient) I'm going to add"

"Today I made for you"

"Into a large pan, add the . . . "

And this one isn't related to grammar, but I feel the need to add this latest example of linguistic ignorance:

"raw mango doesn't bode well with a dessert"

Edited September 1, 2022 by Leeds

[shapeshifter]

36 minutes ago, Leeds said:

"raw mango doesn't bode well with a dessert"

Perhaps you would feel better with:

• The presence of raw mango 🥭 does not bode well for a dessert.

The others don’t bother me.

[Bastet]

55 minutes ago, Leeds said:

"Today I made for you"

At least it's "I"; what drives me nuts is when a chef - who had no sous chef or any other assistance in preparing or cooking - presents the dish to judges by saying, "Today we made for you ..."   

(Even those who prefer "they" as their third person pronoun use "I" in the first person, so it's not an impressive number of non-binary chefs competing on these programs that's causing this trend.)

[Leeds]

"A spokesman for the All England Club said Djokovic was one of five players this year asked to change or adjust footwear to comply with the rules. He did not have the names of the other three players."  Reuters

Because at Wimbledon five minus three now equals one.

[SuprSuprElevated]

14 minutes ago, Leeds said:

"A spokesman for the All England Club said Djokovic was one of five players this year asked to change or adjust footwear to comply with the rules. He did not have the names of the other three players."  Reuters

Because at Wimbledon five minus three now equals one.

I would put that on Reuters.

[JustHereForFood]

4 hours ago, Leeds said:

"Today I made for you"

What is wrong about that, if I may ask?

[Leeds]

6 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

What is wrong about that, if I may ask?

Of course you can ask!  To me it just sounds so pretentious.  Why can't they just say "I made"?

[JustHereForFood]

31 minutes ago, Leeds said:

Of course you can ask!  To me it just sounds so pretentious.  Why can't they just say "I made"?

Thanks. I thought that there is something gramatically incorrect, but I couln't figure out what it is.

[Milburn Stone]

I think "into a large pan, add the" is not only correct, but probably superior to "add the...into a large pan." On a subtle level, it conveys the need to have the large pan at the ready before you come to the stove with the ingredient. The word order mimics and strengthens the proper order of events, which is helpful. It also subtly underlines the importance of the pan being a large one, not a medium-sized or small one--crucial information if you don't want a mess to clean up.

Clauses matter.

[AstridM]

On 9/1/2022 at 7:29 PM, Leeds said:

Of course you can ask!  To me it just sounds so pretentious.  Why can't they just say "I made"?

I agree that it’s awkward.

[Milburn Stone]

Highly relevant to our general discussion:

https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/if-youre-a-living-language-type-then

Key sentence: "When literally becomes just an intensifier, it joins hundreds of other terms that occupy that position, and something is lost."

Edited September 8, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[elle]

On 8/26/2022 at 1:46 PM, Cinnabon said:

I grew up in the Midwest with “pop,” then moved to California in my 20s. Since then I’ve always used “soda” and will never go back, lol. I live in the Midwest again now and cringe when I hear “pop.”

I grew up in the Midwest too.  I feel like I used “pop” and “soda” interchangeably then, but only ‘soda’ now.  I moved to the Southwest in my teens and I never got used to hearing the occasional “coke” used for any sugary carbonated drink.  I think most of us were transplants so “soda” was the go to word.

On 8/26/2022 at 4:54 PM, Browncoat said:

I rarely say, "ain't", and even then I'm usually quoting a movie.  My favorite "ain't" quote is from "Support Your Local Sheriff" -- James Garner asks Harry Morgan why there aren't any bars on the jail cell, and Harry replies, "We had to order them, and they ain't arrove yet."  I do a lot of purchasing for work, so "they ain't arrove yet" gets a lot of use.

I love this (and that movie)!  How fun for you that you get to use this.  Does anyone recognize the quote?

Edited September 10, 2022 by elle

[Browncoat]

8 hours ago, elle said:

I love this (and that movie)!  How fun for you that you get to use this.  Does anyone recognize the quote?

Hardly ever, even when I tell them it's from a movie and explain the scene. They laugh when I say it, though.  I used it just yesterday!

[Leeds]

A (professional) chef on a national TV show show just talked about "privileging the peas" and went on to add insult to injury by talking about "A better kind of trumpet of the pea possibility than the previous dish."  (I rewound because I thought I must have misheard.  Unfortunately not.)

My only hope is that these pretentious dicks watch their performances at home surrounded by friends and family who go on to relentlessly mock them.

[Lugal]

22 hours ago, Leeds said:

A (professional) chef on a national TV show show just talked about "privileging the peas" and went on to add insult to injury by talking about "A better kind of trumpet of the pea possibility than the previous dish."  (I rewound because I thought I must have misheard.  Unfortunately not.)

Someone's seriously seeking validation for their superb alliteration skills.

[meep.meep]

On 9/10/2022 at 6:51 PM, Leeds said:

A (professional) chef on a national TV show show just talked about "privileging the peas" and went on to add insult to injury by talking about "A better kind of trumpet of the pea possibility than the previous dish."  (I rewound because I thought I must have misheard.  Unfortunately not.)

My only hope is that these pretentious dicks watch their performances at home surrounded by friends and family who go on to relentlessly mock them.

That's like Posh Nosh!  She would always embarrass the vegetables.

[shapeshifter]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-14/henry-fuhrmann-times-editor-dies

[Zella]

This cracked me up, and I thought all of you would appreciate it as well. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Zella

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

This cracked me up, and I thought all of you would appreciate it as well. 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That would be my first words too!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Cinnabon]

55 minutes ago, Zella said:

This cracked me up, and I thought all of you would appreciate it as well. 

I would absolutely be thinking that!

[Annber03]

So I'm watching "48 Hours" at the moment, and I saw a little promo headline in the corner advertising a topic that would be covered on the next episode of one of the CBS morning shows. This was the headline:

"Social media's affects on elections." 

[shapeshifter]

54 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

So I'm watching "48 Hours" at the moment, and I saw a little promo headline in the corner advertising a topic that would be covered on the next episode of one of the CBS morning shows. This was the headline:

"Social media's affects on elections." 

Given that Social Media seems to be taking on a life of its own, I'm not so sure that's wrong.
😉

[Milburn Stone]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Given that Social Media seems to be taking on a life of its own, I'm not so sure that's wrong.
😉

AIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAI!

[SuprSuprElevated]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

"Social media's affects on elections." 

I think one is a twitching left eyelid.

[danderson400]

On 6/20/2015 at 6:03 PM, bmasters9 said:

This opening of a 1986 rerun of the 1980-82 game show Bullseye with the late Jim Lange (that show was rerun on the USA Network, which no longer reruns game shows) had Jim opening by having announcer Jay Stewart "introduce our first two players," only to have Jay say "our champion." The mistake in there is in Jim saying "our first two players," which would normally only be used on the first episode of a new show, not on future shows within the run (outside of TPIR, which always says "the first four contestants"). 

Normally on Joker's Wild, Jack Barry would have Jay Stewart or later on, Charlie O Donnell introduce "the champion and the challenger" and that was a proper way of doing it that way.

[SweetieDarling]

[shapeshifter]

Wait. Who was wearing handcuffs? And were the handcuffs a fashion choice? 

• “Heinrich was arrested at his house in Frankfurt, led out by balaclava-clad policemen in handcuffs, sporting mustard-coloured corduroy trousers and a tartan-patterned jacket, with long grey hair…” (reuters.com/world/europe/heinrich-xiii-prince-suspected-plotting-be-german-kaiser-coup-2022-12-07).

[SoMuchTV]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Wait. Who was wearing handcuffs? And were the handcuffs a fashion choice? 

• “Heinrich was arrested at his house in Frankfurt, led out by balaclava-clad policemen in handcuffs, sporting mustard-coloured corduroy trousers and a tartan-patterned jacket, with long grey hair…” (reuters.com/world/europe/heinrich-xiii-prince-suspected-plotting-be-german-kaiser-coup-2022-12-07).

Oooh, so much here!  After you figure out the deal with the handcuffs, do you think you can get me picture of the tartan-patterned jacket, with long grey hair?

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Wait. Who was wearing handcuffs? And were the handcuffs a fashion choice? 

• “Heinrich was arrested at his house in Frankfurt, led out by balaclava-clad policemen in handcuffs, sporting mustard-coloured corduroy trousers and a tartan-patterned jacket, with long grey hair…” (reuters.com/world/europe/heinrich-xiii-prince-suspected-plotting-be-german-kaiser-coup-2022-12-07).

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Oooh, so much here!  After you figure out the deal with the handcuffs, do you think you can get me picture of the tartan-patterned jacket, with long grey hair?

Here's the outfit at the time of arrest:     But here is the accessorized outfit:

    

[Lugal]

On 12/6/2022 at 6:02 AM, SweetieDarling said:

Serves her right for ruining the snake's holiday.

[Grrarrggh]

Very few people on HGTV know how to pronounce foyer, or know the definitions of the words "flow" and "cute". If I have to hear about "natural sunlight" one more time.... 

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Grrarrggh said:

Very few people on HGTV know how to pronounce foyer, or know the definitions of the words "flow" and "cute". If I have to hear about "natural sunlight" one more time.... 

Apparently there are many valid ways to pronounce foyer (see our discussion here) but yeah, "natural sunlight" does not say what they think it does. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

No. 16 is everything, lol.

Credit - @GHScorpiosRule