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S02.E08: Goliath

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Is this episode available on-demand for anyone, cuz it doesn't appear to be out early like the past episodes on Comcast. Just wondering if anyone knows.

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Is this episode available on-demand for anyone, cuz it doesn't appear to be out early like the past episodes on Comcast. Just wondering if anyone knows.

I also cannot find it in the usual... ahem... sources... maybe they stopped  releasing them on demand?

Edited by Zaffy

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I also cannot find it in the usual... ahem... sources... maybe they stopped  releasing them on demand?

To stop doing this in the middle of the season? Odd, don't you think? (I'm just grumpy.....I got into the habit of watching it early. I guess I now like spoilers!)

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To stop doing this in the middle of the season? Odd, don't you think? (I'm just grumpy.....I got into the habit of watching it early. I guess I now like spoilers!)

That is so not fair! I have to wait 2 weeks for the next episode...doooooh!

 

You guys are sooo addicted! Heh.

what makes you say that? ;)

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They had originally uploaded Ep7 twice early in the a.m., then then first one disappeared. Still no sign of early Ep8. Maybe they realized it wasn't helping ratings if folks already watched it? Maybe it's just a mistake and someone knowledgeable is on vacation? Who knows? I guess we'll find out come Wednesday if they will continue to post the next ep early!

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Eva + Linder = True Avengers. I am rooting for those crazy vigilante kids to kill some of these rapist monsters and make it out alive. They then need to get married and have some vigilante kids.

 

Damn, I don't know who is stupider: Daniel or Sonya. They both walk around lashing out at dangerous violent people with no regard for the safety of the people that they are supposed to love. The preview hints that Eleanor might save her from that assassin. We will see. The marines released Eleanor's father that will not be a pretty confrontation.

 

I am glad that Lucy made it. She was so brave. I would hate to see her die.

 

I don't even believe the DEA about having someone in Fausto's organization, but I suppose it could be the bodyguard who he let live.

 

I cannot believe that shitty rapist Robles is still alive. Fausto better kill his ass before he is taken out.

 

I thought that that was a great episode, full of tension.

Edited by SimoneS
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I agree that Eleanor seems likely to rescue Sonya; they are mirror images of each other. Marco will also be on the way to save her but may be beaten to the punch by Eleanor and Cesar.

 

I assume the person inside Fausto's organization is Charlotte, although she doesn't have either the nerve or the smarts to be undercover, imo. They really should have turned Cesar.  I have a feeling it may be Linder and Eva who finally do Robles in.

 

It was really sad how Sonya gave her sister's lock of hair to her out of it, homeless, addicted mother.

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 I have a feeling it may be Linder and Eva who finally do Robles in.

I think I might full-on dance a jig if Eva (with an assist from Linder) kills Robles.

 

Someone help me out . . . how are the Marines involved in going after Fausto? Or has that not been revealed yet? Oh, and Fausto mentioned Norway again. He really does want to see the Fjords.

 

Sonya, Sonya, Sonya. I love you girl, but damn I want to smack you every now and then. Adriana and Marco should become drinking buddies just so they can bitch about their crazy partners.

 

Glad Lucy made it out alive. I have decided she can join Eva and Linder in their Vigilante Killings. Y'know, if she feels up to it. 

Edited by hardy har
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So,  I guess we can add Marco to Sonya's shit-list.  It's been increasing this season.  A bit of a reverse from last season, where it was Marco that wanted nothing to do with Sonya, after the Tate fiasco.  But, Sonya picked the wrong time to isolated herself from people.  I agree with the speculation though, that it will somehow be Eleanor who saves her from "The Chopper."  Even though Eleanor sees Sonya as a danger, I kind of got a sense that Eleanor would find it wrong for him to kill her.

 

Glad that Lucy didn't die.  Of course, Adriana can't even relax for a minute, without having to go off and bail Daniel's sorry ass out of lock-up.  He really should count his blessings that Marco was around.

 

Fausto is betrayed, but he and his loyal bodyguard managed to sneak out and live to fight another day.  Marco accuses Robles of being the one to do it, and Robles didn't really deny it.  Interesting!

 

And, it's official: Linder and Eva are on a bit of a "Kill the Rapists!" Revenge Tour!  I hope they drop a few more bodies, before everyone else catches up to them.

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This episode was the first time I saw and heard the familial resemblance between Demian and Bruno Bichir.

...The marines released Eleanor's father that will not be a pretty confrontation....

Definitely not pretty, but not so sure "released" is what happens. I figured Bruno Bichir/Sebastian Cerisola just had him "transferred" because that was the price to have Eleanor switch her allegiance from Fausto.

Eleanor's 'relationship' to her father is the bizarro version of what Sonya's was to her sister's killer--if it's possible to have a "bizarro" version of anything Sonya.

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I had forgotten that Charlotte was informing for the DEA. She does not know much about Fausto, but she should be able to give them Eleanor.

 

Watching Cesar with Eleanor makes me sad. I liked him. Goes to show that once you are in that business, there are no limits to the things that you have do.

 

Definitely not pretty, but not so sure "released" is what happens. I figured Bruno Bichir/Sebastian Cerisola just had him "transferred" because that was the price to have Eleanor switch her allegiance from Fausto.

This had not occurred to me. You are probably right.

Edited by SimoneS

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Watching Cesar with Eleanor makes me sad. I liked him. Goes to show that once you are in that business, there are no limits to the things that you have do.

I have hopes that he will at least make it out alive, and hopefully with his familia in tact. He and Marco seem to be two sides of the same coin--both trying to be honorable as much as is possible within their world; Marco is outwardly more on the "right" side of the law, while Cesar operates on the "wrong" side, but that difference is largely the luck of the draw of the circumstances of their lives. Given this, it's interesting that Marco has essentially lost his family. On this show it seems that law enforcers will lose their loved ones as the price of admission onto the side of the "good guys."
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Sonya's fate next week looks perilous but she'll have a chance to survive given that she was nabbed by "The Chopper" and not the "Immediate Executioner."

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Marco accuses Robles of being the one to do it, and Robles didn't really deny it.  Interesting!

 

I figured that when Robles got taken away by the soldiers (in the beginning of the episode), he was made to tell them about Fausto. Remember Robles took a few days off and left Marco in charge?  I took that to mean that he went underground for a bit after ratting on Fausto, waiting to come back after Fausto was arrested by the soldiers.  Except we know that the arrest didn't happen.  It's not going to work out well for Robles.

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I hate to say this, but I'm pretty tired of Sonya, especially the way she's treating Hank. I know we're supposed to think that is one of the expressions of her Asbergers (or whatever), that she sees things strictly in black and white. That may have been the case last season, but this season seemed like she was making progress in dealing with social interactions.

I haven't seen her do much investigative work this season, either. It seems like her role has really been downgraded to family drama (ie, relationship with Jack Dobbs) and pretty much everybody else on the show has advanced the plot by discovering things or taking some kind of action (or having action taken against them, of course).

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I find Sonya's naivete unbelievable at this point. She had to be a patrol cop before becoming a detective and she worked along the border all this time so it is impossible that she does not understand the comprises that Marco had to make stay alive and remain relatively honest.  Even now after witnessing what happened to Eva, prosecutor, and Lucy, Sonya has no awareness about how much danger that she and Marco are in. No one who is as deluded as Sonya would still be alive. Same with Daniel. If Marco was not in charge when he was arrested, Robles would have disappeared him.  

 

Oh, Robles definitely gave up Fausto's hideout when the Marines kidnapped and tortured him which is why he went into hiding. Robles is right that Fausto is done, but Marco is also right that he has not be caught yet. I see Fausto settling up his debts including those with Robles before getting killed or arrested by U.S. authorities.

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I hate to say this, but I'm pretty tired of Sonya, especially the way she's treating Hank. I know we're supposed to think that is one of the expressions of her Asbergers (or whatever), that she sees things strictly in black and white. That may have been the case last season, but this season seemed like she was making progress in dealing with social interactions.

I haven't seen her do much investigative work this season, either. It seems like her role has really been downgraded to family drama (ie, relationship with Jack Dobbs) and pretty much everybody else on the show has advanced the plot by discovering things or taking some kind of action (or having action taken against them, of course).

 Wasn't she key in finding Kyle, and what happened to him IIRC? But, then, I didn't think much of her detective skills last season either, pretty much because of her condition. She doesn't seem capable of grasping the intricacies of motivation, and that would tend to hinder an investigation where you have to intuit motive. She makes up for it in cutting through the BS, I guess, and in being observational in a physical way, but there's that other aspect that I think is difficult for her.

  In Sonya's defense, though, as she was becoming more open with people, she discovered that the ones she trusted most were being less than truthful with her, and I guess it's her condition that doesn't delineate between a benevolent and a malevolent lie. Timing and plot being what they are, though, she's cut herself off from everyone at a most inopportune time.

     I'm also liking Linder and Eva! I liked the call back to the first season mention of his sister. (Not wanting to get too invested, though, as I had high hopes for Charlotte as an interesting character at the end of season one.)

    Anyone notice that both the DEA guy and Fausto used the line about tightening the circle?

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The guy driving McKenzie's van seemed way too interested in the conversation with Sonja. 

 

Sonja rejecting Marco broke my heart, and his too.  He's disappointed in himself and needs someone (besides Galvan) who understands the difficulties of living in his world.  I think Sonja's not just upset with Marco and Hank -- she's also upset with herself, because now she knows she can't trust her own judgment. 

 

It's a little late in the series for us to see a "good" side of Robles, when he defended that homeless woman. 

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The guy driving McKenzie's van seemed way too interested in the conversation with Sonja. 

 

 

Yes . . . while McKenzie is boasting that he has a mole in Galvan's organization,  it looks like he may have one in his own outfit.  McKenzie strikes me as an arrogant fool headed for a fall.

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Yes . . . while McKenzie is boasting that he has a mole in Galvan's organization,  it looks like he may have one in his own outfit.  McKenzie strikes me as an arrogant fool headed for a fall.

Indeed, and what a big thud that fall will make. Is he the "Goliath" from the ep title? Does it refer to him and Galvan?

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I hate to say this, but I'm pretty tired of Sonya, especially the way she's treating Hank. I know we're supposed to think that is one of the expressions of her Asbergers (or whatever), that she sees things strictly in black and white. That may have been the case last season, but this season seemed like she was making progress in dealing with social interactions.

 

 

I'm getting tired of her too.  She's been a detective for how long?  Seems like she should understand what "grey areas" are; but she acts like a four year old who's pissed off because her parents just told her Santa isn't real.

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It was really sad how Sonya gave her sister's lock of hair to her out of it, homeless, addicted mother.

 

Ohhhhhhhh!!! I was so WTF in that scene, I had no idea what the heck was going on!

 

After everything Hank has done for her, she really ratted him out and got him placed on leave? Blame it on the Ass Burgers (TM South Park) I guess but that's just sad for good-hearted Hank. 

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I so agree that McKenzie is far too smug and happy with himself, and the reaper's coming for him.  Wonder who will get his huge collection of hand-painted figurines?

 

It would be so cool and strange if Eleanor saves Sonya.  Eleanor said Sonya is an interesting person.  She'll find out just how interesting if she saves Sonya and Sonya promptly tries to arrest her. heh

 

I felt so bad for Marco when Sonya said she didn't trust him anymore.  You could see that there were so many replies he wanted to make, and they all played across his face, but ultimately he couldn't say anything.

 

I'm having a hard time deciding who I want to see kill Robles.  He really deserves to be killed a couple of times.

 

May Linder and Eva get completely away with their spree.  Love the idea, SimoneS, of them having vigilante children.

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..I'm having a hard time deciding who I want to see kill Robles.  He really deserves to be killed a couple of times.

 

May Linder and Eva get completely away with their spree.

Shouldn't Robles be in Linder and Eva's hit list?
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Shouldn't Robles be in Linder and Eva's hit list?

I would think he would be (but I suspect he's on a lot of hit lists).  I'd certainly get some satisfaction seeing Eva kill him herself.

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After everything Hank has done for her, she really ratted him out and got him placed on leave? Blame it on the Ass Burgers (TM South Park) I guess but that's just sad for good-hearted Hank. 

I thought Hank turned himself in, or whatever it's called when you admit you liked about a shooting.  He would do that for Sonja. 

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 After everything Hank has done for her, she really ratted him out and got him placed on leave? 

She didnt rat him out, Hank   told the DA himself.

I am surprised that in the "review" page, people didn't like this episode.

I find it as solid as the previous ones.

I am curious how Sonya's character will evolve, if any. Till now her "black and white" perception of the universe has served her well. 

But after dealing with the borders corruption and also learning Hank's secret, her world is collapsing a bit.

I am still waiting for her to explode somehow till the end of the season.

Not sure if its Marco's compromising per se or him telling her lies that hurt her more. Remember last season when Sonya visited Marco asking him if he wants to kill Tate and he denied it. She has all the right in the world to be mad at him, even if her timing is not the best.

 

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I would think he would be (but I suspect he's on a lot of hit lists).  I'd certainly get some satisfaction seeing Eva kill him herself.

I would have too last week--but then they made him into Savior of Beggars and Helpless Old Women this week. Plus, although Ava ID'd him as a rapist, we didn't see him do that. Maybe the writers aren't going to have time to have Ava Linder off him? Or...?

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shapeshifter:  Yes, I was including Ava/Linder in my wish list for killing Robles, also Fausto, and maybe even Marco or Eleanor.  I couldn't decide between who might kill him in the nastiest possible way.  That's who I would want to do it if he can't be killed more than once.

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I guess but that's just sad for good-hearted Hank.

 

He did kill an unarmed man in cold blood. I know on TV we get a kick out of vigilante justice but the idea that cops should play judge, jury and executioner is a dangerous one that I fear ends up in the heads of many RL policemen.

 

My suspects for victims of the Red Ridge massacre keep shuffling in priority. Right now I think it's Charlotte, Fausto, and Sebastian. Runners up are Ray, Fausto's trusted henchman, McKenzie and Chip. Eleanor likes and trusts Cesar, so I think he might be saved from her wrath at any event.

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If the show has any basis in reality, McKenzie is not in any danger. The driver listening to his conversation with Sonya was probably spying on him for he CIA.

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If the show has any basis in reality, McKenzie is not in any danger. The driver listening to his conversation with Sonya was probably spying on him for he CIA.

The CIA isn"t dangerous?

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Someone help me out . . . how are the Marines involved in going after Fausto? Or has that not been revealed yet?

 

I'm confused about this, too. Why were the Marines intent on finding him in the first place? And why was Fausto so convinced that he was going to have to run?

 

Is it because of what the reporters dug up on Red Ridge?

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I was also wondering if the show had featured them before. They just seemed to show up in the beginning of the episode and I had no idea who they were. I had figured that they were another group of cops on the take of another crimelord.

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Not to federal agents. 

 

I wish I had your confidence in the CIA.  In any case, what I suspect for MacKenzie is professional humiliation, not a grisly death.  But with this series, you never know.

I'm confused about this, too. Why were the Marines intent on finding him in the first place? And why was Fausto so convinced that he was going to have to run?

 

Is it because of what the reporters dug up on Red Ridge?

I think there was some talk about a new president who wanted to clean up the drug problem?  Or did I misunderstand that?  But those Marines came on the scene a bit too suddenly.

 

I was also wondering if the show had featured them before. They just seemed to show up in the beginning of the episode and I had no idea who they were. I had figured that they were another group of cops on the take of another crimelord.

I was thinking the same thing, given how they kidnapped Robles like any other group of thugs.  

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I'm confused about this, too. Why were the Marines intent on finding him in the first place? And why was Fausto so convinced that he was going to have to run?

 

Is it because of what the reporters dug up on Red Ridge?

 

Faust is in trouble with the U.S. authorities because he killed the DEA agent and the new Mexican President wants to show the American administration that he is serious about taking out the cartels.  

 

 

I wish I had your confidence in the CIA.  In any case, what I suspect for MacKenzie is professional humiliation, not a grisly death.  But with this series, you never know.

 

 

I am not confident in the CIA. I am confident that the Justice Department and the Federal law enforcement agencies will never let drug cartels or the CIA get away with murdering a federal agent.  I referred to the real life murder of a DEA agent in the 1980s in a previous thread. The CIA and its pet drug lords were involved in his murder and that ended badly for all of them when the Justice Department and DEA took them on. Since then only one federal agent has been murdered in Mexico and again the cartel boss and his crew was taken down. In real life, federal agents are simply not murdered willy nilly by cartels or the CIA.

Edited by SimoneS
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Faust is in trouble with the U.S. authorities because he killed the DEA agent and the new Mexican President wants to show the American administration that he is serious about taking out the cartels.  

 

OK, thanks. That makes sense.

 

They certainly made that confusing, though.

 

Even people who are accustomed to extremely complicated drama series are having a lot of trouble figuring out what's going on with this show. I suspect that's a big part of why the ratings have gone down so much.

 

Considering that they're using two different languages, you have all these competing law enforcement authorities, the characters' allegiances are constantly shifting, and they believe in shooting scenes with as little light as possible...couldn't they throw us a bone sometimes? Or do they take pride in making it all so difficult?

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Even people who are accustomed to extremely complicated drama series are having a lot of trouble figuring out what's going on with this show. I suspect that's a big part of why the ratings have gone down so much.

 

Considering that they're using two different languages, you have all these competing law enforcement authorities, the characters' allegiances are constantly shifting, and they believe in shooting scenes with as little light as possible...couldn't they throw us a bone sometimes? Or do they take pride in making it all so difficult?

I haven't been following the ratings and didn't realize they'd gone down a lot. Do you think a season 3 is unlikely?

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