All Episodes Discussion

[Yokosmom]

Quote

I do believe the better-late-than-never witness.  He's hauling hay for a living, working hard and likely not following the news that closely.   

Sorry, a bit behind on responding to this.  I live down the road from Owego, NY, and outside of the massive flood that swamped the town a few years back, the Cal Harris story is the biggest thing to ever hit that place.  It is inconceivable to me that anyone in that area wouldn't have heard about it.

[cooksdelight]

Last night's episode about the two women being murdered because each had the jealous ex-girlfriend in common, left me shaking my head. It seems pretty obvious to onlookers that the woman killed both of them, yet they could only arrest her for the teen's murder. 

[walnutqueen]

57 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

Last night's episode about the two women being murdered because each had the jealous ex-girlfriend in common, left me shaking my head. It seems pretty obvious to onlookers that the woman killed both of them, yet they could only arrest her for the teen's murder. 

Also, the cops had all that info from the killer's friend decades ago, but let the cases go cold.

[cooksdelight]

Which was nuts. Not much of a police force if it only takes one ex-cop to do all the work.

[JudyObscure]

56 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

It seems pretty obvious to onlookers that the woman killed both of them, yet they could only arrest her for the teen's murder

 

1 minute ago, walnutqueen said:

Also, the cops had all that info from the killer's friend decades ago, but let the cases go cold.

Plus the victim's sister told the cops about the threats and harassment from the murderer the day before.  This murderer had 24 years of freedom and committed another murder while the police ignored all this.

[cooksdelight]

The entire episode left me angry. I couldn't fall asleep over their stupidity.

[sinycalone]

The KC, KS police did interview the murderer right after the crime....but accepted whatever story she fed them evidently about an alibi, etc.  
Granted a threat to cut off the victim's hair does not necessarily constitute murderous intent, but there were also stories of her bullying and actually attacking other girls.  Not sure the police knew about the other girls when they interviewed her....but you would think they would have investigated a little further considering they were allegedly following up every lead.  It's a shame that the man who eventually put it all together (as a p.i.) was only a police cadet at the time of the teen's murder....and was not assigned to the case at any point.  He apparently pursued the case far longer and harder than the police force in place at the time.

 

As to the Independence, MO police -- they were given so much information about the "other woman" -- I cannot fathom how they did not zero in on her at the onset of the investigation.

[saber5055]

Last night's show told me how many if not most police forces are full of people collecting a pay check and not having to do too much to get that pay. The entire hour was so frustrating to me, so many jackasses. Plus that woman has still not come to trial, right? I always get a kick out of "witness" who say some murder is such a nice person, they can't imagine that person could ever harm anyone. And Ted Bundy was good looking and very polite before he murdered his many victims.

[callmebetty]

Can't add much more than what was already said. The fact that this woman got away with two murders for so long and that she just lived a normal life after that. What type of person can just compartmentalize like that? It truly is mind boggling. 

[cooksdelight]

26 minutes ago, callmebetty said:

What type of person can just compartmentalize like that

A psycho sociopath, I would guess.

[sinycalone]

It is also bizarre that in neither instance, did the murderer "get her man."  Who knows if in her twisted mind she ever really expected to resume the relationships with the men....or just wanted to ensure the "competition" did not win?

[A.Ham]

It's hard to get into the machinations of her twisted mind, but the fact that she got involved in an affair with a married man with children and still thought that man "belonged" to her... well, that requires a special kind of narcissism.

I was just glad her actual husband never tried to divorce her and start a new relationship, or there could have been a third victim.

[biakbiak]

There is always one story that Dateline includes that they put to much importance on that I am always WTF, this episode it was that she had won two cars by those stupid radio contests where you can't take your hand off the car. Josh kept acting as this was some part of her personality that contributed to her actions. 

I am curious about the kids story about being carried into a bedroom and put in a closet, it seems weird that she would do that with him but allow the baby to crawl around by her dead mother.

Did they ever mention the father other than to say the kids were raised by him and the grandparents? It would have been interesting to hear from him.

I don't know how a person stays friend with someone the suspect of murdering two people.

[Ohmo]

Quote

It is also bizarre that in neither instance, did the murderer "get her man."

She married a guy, and they had two daughters.  I wondered if they interviewed any of HIS ex-girlfriends?  Did Carol stalk or menace any of them?  I definitely think she had a hand in killing both women.  From the little boy's memory, I can't tell if she actually did the shooting or if more than one person was there.

[BindsTheTuna]

I know from experience (I work in the judicial system) that police officers, especially older men, find it VERY difficult to believe a woman, or girl in this case, can commit vicious murders like these were. I'm sure they discounted her threats as "just girl talk," and never gave her a second thought after she gave them an alibi.

[cooksdelight]

35 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

this episode it was that she had won two cars by those stupid radio contests where you can't take your hand off the car. Josh kept acting as this was some part of her personality that contributed to her actions

I think that was his attempt at showing how determined she is to get what she wants. Or maybe she gave death stares to the others and they took their hands away.

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

I think that was his attempt at showing how determined she is to get what she wants. Or maybe she gave death stares to the others and they took their hands away.

Yes, I believe that was the ppint he was going for I just think it's an incredibly stupid one to bring up and try to make that inference.

[sinycalone]

48 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

She married a guy, and they had two daughters.  I wondered if they interviewed any of HIS ex-girlfriends?  Did Carol stalk or menace any of them?  I definitely think she had a hand in killing both women.  From the little boy's memory, I can't tell if she actually did the shooting or if more than one person was there.

Wondered about that, too.  It certainly would strengthen their case in the second  murder if they could establish a continued pattern of harassment.  I'm not saying this facetiously:  scary thought if any of the husband's gfs disappeared or had accidents.

Edited February 11, 2017 by sinycalone

[Nettie55]

I'm glad the ex husband was finally brought to justice. It's so obvious he did it. The son is in total denial and doesn't want to face what a scumbag his dad is.

[Nettie55]

Yes, those sociopathic girls in Something Wicked needed to be stopped right away and locked up before they preyed on another innocent victim.

Also, I didn't have much sympathy for the victims in 12 Minutes on Elm Street. The man might have gotten away with it if not for that recording

[bubbls]

On 2/11/2017 at 7:39 PM, Nettie55 said:

 

Also, I didn't have much sympathy for the victims in 12 Minutes on Elm Street. The man might have gotten away with it if not for that recording

That one infuriates me. I can't watch it when it reruns. I have absolutely no sympathy for the victims, and their families going on about them nauseates me. 

[bubbls]

I was knitting, so I didn't have my distance glasses on. I believed her at first. She seemed genuine. But I always get suckered in. I finally glanced up and saw the blurry scarf and figured she was being truthful. My guess at the end was drugs were involved and that's why the husband was killed, especially since she started her pain clinic. I also wondered if the players were switched in the missing $186,000, and it was her husband who "lost" the cash hence his murder. 

And that nose job....wow. 

[pigs-in-space]

I have plenty of sympathy for them.  They were dumb kids and I think he planned to murder whomever broke into his house.  They deserved to be punished by the legal system, not by a  guy who decided to play judge, jury and executioner.

The girl especially didn't deserve to have a "nice clean kill shot" as he put it to the police.  He thought of her like an animal you hunt or put down.  His lawyer trying to argue that what he said wasn't actually what he meant was laughable.

[bubbls]

He had every right to defend his home, especially considering the guy had broken in more than once. If they'd chosen to be decent, law abiding citizens they'd both be alive today. His motivation doesn't matter to me at all. They had broken into his home. They have only themselves to blame. He wasn't out stalking them. If they'd stayed out of his home none of this would've happened. 

[Nettie55]

I agree, Bubbls, those kids were breaking the law and if they hadn't been stealing they wouldn't have gotten killed. Stupid people like that who break into homes are asking for trouble. 

Quote

They deserved to be punished by the legal system, 

They would have gotten a slap on the wrist ~ not good enough. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want someone breaking in to my home multiple times. The law was too slow in catching them so they continued to re-offend. Too bad for them

[ari333]

Were the kids wearing masks? I ask bc if he had put up some cameras then it'd be easy to identify them. Just a thought. Or maybe there were already cams . IDK. It's been awhile since I saw the first run eppy and I didn't see the rerun.

[pigs-in-space]

5 hours ago, Nettie55 said:

I agree, Bubbls, those kids were breaking the law and if they hadn't been stealing they wouldn't have gotten killed. Stupid people like that who break into homes are asking for trouble. 

They would have gotten a slap on the wrist ~ not good enough. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want someone breaking in to my home multiple times. The law was too slow in catching them so they continued to re-offend. Too bad for them

Of course I don't want people breaking into my home - that was actually a huge fear of mine as a child so I'm sympathetic to that.

But I also wouldn't move my car to make it look like I wasn't home, sit in my basement for hours talking to myself (and recording it!), shoot one intruder, shoot another intruder, determine second intruder was not yet dead so give the injured girl a nice clean kill shot, sit there ranting to myself some more, then wait until the next day to call the police while two dead bodies laid in my basement.

The guy probably needed psychological help, IMO, but that doesn't justify his actions which I think were above and beyond what was reasonable.

Obviously YMMV, but I can be sympathetic to both parties and still believe that the homeowner went too far.

[JudyObscure]

There are reasons we don't try underage criminals as harshly as adults -- not fully developed brains for one thing, poorly developed impulse control, less understanding of consequences, etc.  There are also reasons why we don't give the death penalty for breaking and entering, theft, or even armed robbery.  We save that for heinous crimes like child rape with murder and murder with torture. The man may have a legal right to defend his home from intruders but I think he was morally wrong for all the reasons Pigs-in-space has mentioned.  I'll even go so far as to say I think he was legally in the wrong as far as the entrapment of moving his car and the final shot to her head after he knew he was no longer in any danger.  I hyperventilate just thinking about that.

 I can say with absolute certainty that if someone, even an adult with previous convictions, broke into my house and took all my valuables, I would not want them to die for it.  If I was home and, if I owned a gun, I would not shoot him unless I felt my own life was in danger.  A human life is worth so much more than my stuff.

[pigs-in-space]

 I can say with absolute certainty that if someone, even an adult with previous convictions, broke into my house and took all my valuables, I would not want them to die for it.  If I was home and, if I owned a gun, I would not shoot him unless I felt my own life was in danger.  A human life is worth so much more than my stuff.

Same.  And I think killing someone else would be even more traumatic to me than experiencing multiple home break-ins.

[Nettie55]

You're right, Pigs-in-space, they didn't deserve to die for what they did but if they were smart and respectful they would have left people alone. They just didn't realize what could happen 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Nettie55

[crazyirishlady]

I still think he was framed...even if Fassbender seems like a nice guy (when he's not browbeating a mentally challenged young man)

[Christina]

I didn't watch the Dateline episode, but did watch the Netflix documentary and then fell into the rabbit hole of information left out of the documentary. Dassey's interview with the police and then later his attorney seem pretty clear that he was told what to say. He had no idea how she was killed until the police told him, asking him to tell them what happened to her head, for example, to which he responded that they pulled her hair. The cop had to tell him she was shot. It was despicable and disgusting as was the police railroading Avery in the rape charge, when another police department told them that the rapist was likely another man, and it turns out it was that man. For those reasons, I wouldn't be surprised to find out the police planted evidence, but I don't think they did, because I don't think they had to for the murder charge. The police department proved over and over that they were largely incompetent when it came to Avery's rape investigation and Dassey's murder investigation.

There were several insurance policies in effect for Avery's wrongful imprisonment, and the policies are what paid his settlement. The police department, City, and officers were never on the hook for any of the money. No one was going bankrupt because of his claim, and it doesn't even seem like anyone was even disciplined for it.

By the time Avery's trial started, Dassey's attorney's malpractice had been discovered, and the State did not use Dassey's information at Avery's trial. It was only Avery's actions that got him convicted. His multiple phone calls to her, his DNA found under the hood where he disconnected the battery cable, her identification found in his burn pile, and her body found where he was having a bonfire, are a few of the many that I recall off hand. 

[Ohmo]

I just watched the update and still believe that Steven Avery is guilty.  To believe in the conspiracy theory would mean that the cops were laying in wait for some random person who happened to cross Steven's path to end up dead so they could frame him.  Tereaa was murdered, and I have a tough time buying the fact that the cops were thinking, "Hey, someone who just happened to be at Avery's junkyard just happened to die.  Now's our chance to frame him."  Teresa had gone to the junkyard multiple times.  The cops didn't put her there.  She was put there by her own behavior, and her body was buried there.

For this to make sense would involve someone  recognizing that Teresa had ties to Stephen, taking her dead body to the junkyard, burying it, starting a bonfire, and then planting all of this evidence.  I agree with Fassbender that the scope of doing that is just way too big to be believed.  You're talking multiple agencies, and you're telling me that you're going to find enough officers and agents who are down with that plan?  I grant you, you could probably find a few, but not enough to put that plan in place, carry it out flawlessly, AND be OK with letting Teresa's real killer go free?  I do not buy that law enforcement would be that obsessed with Steven, even due to the settlement.  The lawyers would negotiate it down.

Also, that woman who called Brendan "a simple soul" is pointing TO Steven, not away from him.  If Fassbender were overly aggressive with Brendan, and I agree with that, that also points to the fact that Steven likely knew his nephew had challenges and could easily be manipulated to provide cover for Steven.  I bet Steven was hoping to pin the whole thing on Brendan somehow.  It was just luck that the cops were overzealous.  This is not an OR situation.  It's an AND situation.  Yes, I believe that the cops were overzealous in their treatment of Brendan.  That was wrong, but that fact doesn't mean that Stephen didn't ALSO kill Teresa.  I find it ridiculous that I'm supposed to believe in a full-scale plot that could rival a movie more than the much more likely scenario of the guy who owned the junkyard and who had multiple dealings with Teresa somehow being involved with her death.  To what degree Brendan was involved, I don't know, and I do believe that he was manipulated by the cops.  I also believe he was manipulated by his uncle, and Steven Avery is guilty of this crime.

ETA:

Quote

Hell, I say give the bleeding hearts what they want. Try him again. He'll just be convicted again. You could disallow 50% of the evidence against him and still convict.

Agreed because it's not about the evidence for me.  Throw the evidence out, and I'd still have the question "Her body was burned on Steven's property, she'd been there before, and Steven supposedly had absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened to her?"  You're then telling me another criminal got THE luckiest break EVER (How did this person supposedly connect Teresa with Steven Avery?) or that there's a level of police corruption that rises to epic levels...in which case, if it's THAT systemic, I want names, I want dates, I want e-mails, I want texts.  Heck, I want a FLOWCHART!  Show me details, actual details, not a bunch of "maybe stuff was planted."

Edited February 20, 2017 by Ohmo

[UsernameFatigue]

I didn't watch the documentary but laughed when in this episode they relayed that the docu claimed that the hole in the tube of blood was evidence that he was framed. It is really sad that they would use something so ridiculous and expect people to fall for it. Thank goodness it was pointed out that the hole is how the blood gets from the vein into the tube. Apparently those who saw a coverup thinks it gets there by magic. Sheesh.

The cover up theory was just so ridiculous. And honestly I didn't think Fassbender's questioning of the nephew was all that bad. I have certainly seen much worse. And just because he is slow doesn't mean he is not capable of participating in murder. But really if he goes free I figure he gets off with time served. Avery on the other hand needs to rot in jail.

[cooksdelight]

Did anyone catch last night's episode, about the woman who supposedly committed suicide on New Year's Day? Who shoots themself in the back of the head? No one. I will always believe the husband did it. No idea why the girl who heard the woman screaming changed her story. It was almost as if someone got to her.

[Vivigirl10]

Quote

 I can see that the police might have done shady things in order to make sure they got Steven, but there was a crime to get Steven for. 

Correct.  I think you CAN have it both ways:  the cops planted evidence AND Steven did murder Teresa.  They knew he did it but were going to do their best to 100% ensure a conviction.  

[Whimsy]

20 hours ago, Ohmo said:

just watched the update and still believe that Steven Avery is guilty.  To believe in the conspiracy theory would mean that the cops were laying in wait for some random person who happened to cross Steven's path to end up dead so they could frame him.  Tereaa was murdered, and I have a tough time buying the fact that the cops were thinking, "Hey, someone who just happened to be at Avery's junkyard just happened to die.  Now's our chance to frame him."  Teresa had gone to the junkyard multiple times.  The cops didn't put her there.  She was put there by her own behavior, and her body was buried there

I think that when they heard Teresa was missing they were convinced Steven did it and had to plant that evidence to prove he did it. Not that they were laying in wait to plant it, just that once something happened and they couldn't find enough evidence they decided to do something about it. 

Im still on the fence whether Steven did it or another messed up family member. That whole family freaks me out. My sympathy is also with Dassey who didn't have the mental capacity to jnderstand what was going on.  

So, while I am at about 50/50 with Steven or another family memeber, i don't think the evidence was there and that very corrupt police department did what they felt they had to to get the conviction. 

[walnutqueen]

This case bothers me.  I am the first to denigrate police and police procedures, and have a somewhat high regard for Kathleen Zellner.  That said, I just don't see the whole "someone else bad did it and framed Avery for it" scenario working out IRL.  I hate that the victim of a brutal murder is getting lost in this public spectacle of a pissing contest.

[Geek XX]

If Steven Avery didn't murder Theresa, then I'm thinking someone else from the family did it.

Brendan Dassey I don't believe had anything to do with it, and was coerced into admitting the murder to the investigators. 

I'm still unclear how he was questioned in the first place.

[CaughtOnTape]

19 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

This case bothers me.  I am the first to denigrate police and police procedures, and have a somewhat high regard for Kathleen Zellner.  That said, I just don't see the whole "someone else bad did it and framed Avery for it" scenario working out IRL.  I hate that the victim of a brutal murder is getting lost in this public spectacle of a pissing contest.

Then maybe the police officers and investigators should be held to a greater level of integrity when you are talking about putting someone to death or in jail for the rest of their life.  They didn't do their job enough to convict him and they knew it so they took a 16 year old down with him in order to make it worse.  It's a little sad that people are ok with allowing Avery to stay in jail because "Well, it's definitely a possibility he could have done it." while no one is thinking the police and investigators could have plausibly done what they are being accused of.  Only difference here is they get to stay out of jail.

As for the assertion that Fassbender didn't do anything....he basically took a mentally challenged teen who had no representation and no parents, and subtly suggested to him details about what happened in order to get Dassey to say what he wanted him to say.  I can't think of anything worse...even burning a cat.  That is a disgusting.  Even if he wasn't mentally challenged he was a child.  He clearly had no idea what was going on evidenced by the fact that he asked if he could go back to class when he was done having not even understood that he just confessed to murder.

So, maybe Avery did do it.  I don't know.  What I do know is the police, investigators and Ken Kratz are to blame for the fact that Avery is getting so much media attention now.  Had they stayed in their lane and done their jobs rather than making a sensationalistic circus out of a flimsy case they weren't sure they were going to win...none of this would be happening.

[Christina]

I think Avery should remain in prison for the murder of Teresa Halbach because I believe he murdered Teresa Halbach and there was enough evidence to convict him, evidence that the Netflix documentary omitted and downplayed. What happened to Brenden Dassey is outrageous and inexcusable and I can see the Manitowoc County police officers and Prosecutor's incompetence in both Dassey's case and Avery's first rape case. But Dassey's information was not included in Avery's trial for the murder of Teresa Halbach. In Avery's murder case, they were ordered to not be on the property and went anyway, and should be sanctioned for that, no question.

Avery was convicted based on his own actions and behaviors. These issues have been hashed and rehashed in the other forum, so I won't repeat them here, but wanted to say that the reason Avery is getting attention now is because the documentary filmmakers stripped facts to tell their story, made suggestions like the blood was planted from that vial, even though the blood found in the car did not have the preservative in it that it would have if it came from the vial, and ignored the DNA found under the hood where he removed the battery cables. 

Penny Beernsten, the rape victim in his first case, the one he was exonerated by DNA later, refused to meet with the Netflix documentary people because she said they had an agenda and it wasn't to tell the story of Teresa. The Netflix documentary brought Dassey's case to light, which I think was a good thing, but I think the documentary was largely an insult to Teresa Halbach's memory.

[Christina]

Someone sent me a private message asking about something I posted above, so I want to clarify. I'm not editing the post, even though it is right above this one, because anyone who has already read it won't see the clarification.

The Manitowoc Sheriff's Office was not suppose to be on his property but kept showing up. On one of those visits, the deputy claimed to find the key to Teresa's car, even though the area had been searched previously and it wasn't found. That was what I was referring to when I said they (the S.O.) should be sanctioned. In my opinion, even if that was excluded from the evidence, he still would have been found guilty based on the other evidence. I don't think the S.O. should get away with not following the Court Order to not be present. They completely ignored it. Their behavior fuels the conspiracy theories, and if a judge hasn't done something about it, they should. The police may have already sanctioned; it's been a while since I read all the information. 

I still don't think Avery walks on the murder charge because of that behavior by the cops. I also don't think the behavior by the Manitowoc Sheriff absolves Avery for the murder. There is a standard to which the police are held, and they failed in Avery's first conviction for rape, Dassey's charges as accessory to Teresa Halbach's murder, and in the investigation in Avery's involvement in Teresa's murder. They are incompetent and I never want to visit Manitowoc County. 

Avery is still a murderer and still gets convicted based on the evidence.

[lianau]

On 21.2.2017 at 3:21 PM, Geek XX said:

If Steven Avery didn't murder Theresa, then I'm thinking someone else from the family did it.

Brendan Dassey I don't believe had anything to do with it, and was coerced into admitting the murder to the investigators. 

I'm still unclear how he was questioned in the first place.

My honest opinion , Brendan walked into the aftermath and was threatened/pressured   by Steven  and then pretty much abandoned by his family in favor of the golden boy .

[biakbiak]

I might have screamed at the TV "Dennis you have been on Dateline for 20 years this is not the first time you have heard about rape fantasies!"

[Lizzing]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

I might have screamed at the TV "Dennis you have been on Dateline for 20 years this is not the first time you have heard about rape fantasies!"

Similar screams here; I swear I've seen that tactic used (online ads for rape fantasies used to torment people) on a half dozen true crime shows.

I have a hard time believing that the boyfriend wasn't involved.  I don't have a hard time believing the Anaheim cops couldn't find evidence against another cop, though.

[biakbiak]

17 minutes ago, Lizzing said:

 

I have a hard time believing that the boyfriend wasn't involved.  I don't have a hard time believing the Anaheim cops couldn't find evidence against another cop, though.

Seriously! Though at least he should know to buy a burner phone. I realize bail situations differ but the fact that hers was a $1 million with no actual physical evidence that she was involved and Angela faced no physical harm,I found it extreme. I don't know if people realize exactly how bail works, I didn't until a friend got arested on a bullshit charge with much smaller bail that got thrown out but if you put up bond and not cash you are out that money forever. So her parents/family would have had to pay $100k without ever having recourse to get that reimbursemed even though the evidence was iffy. If you pay the million you will get it back.

 Given the condo I can't imagine they didn't have cameras on the garage and it's not difficult to trace ip addresses. Seriously she is going to get paid. 

Does anyone know what Angela's kidnapping charge was for? 

[LGGirl]

I can't understand how that they could arrest her with out verifying the IP addresses.  That's detective work 101. Just shows how LE can be so focused on a suspect that they are blinded to investigate other possibilities.   

What a nightmare.   I'm convinced her bf was involved. No doubt. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by LGGirl

[Ohmo]

On 2/21/2017 at 4:52 PM, CaughtOnTape said:

So, maybe Avery did do it.  I don't know.  What I do know is the police, investigators and Ken Kratz are to blame for the fact that Avery is getting so much media attention now.  Had they stayed in their lane and done their jobs rather than making a sensationalistic circus out of a flimsy case they weren't sure they were going to win...none of this would be happening.

I guess my feeling is that there's no evidence yet to suggest to me that the police didn't "stay in their lane" when it comes to Steven.  What happened to Brendan is a different deal, but just because the cops erred with Brendan doesn't make Steven's claim true.  I believe Fassbender when he says that the scope of the tampering is unlikely given the number of agencies who were involved in the case.  I simply don't buy that everyone would get on board with helping one local police department execute (or allow) a frame-up of this scale.  Not without seeing MUCH more evidence than what Zellner has shown to this point.

ETA:

Quote

I don't think the S.O. should get away with not following the Court Order to not be present. They completely ignored it. Their behavior fuels the conspiracy theories, and if a judge hasn't done something about it, they should. The police may have already sanctioned; it's been a while since I read all the information. 

For me, there's still a lot of room between "should not have been there" and "went there and planted evidence."  What is the PROOF that this happened, or even likely happened, other than "there are corrupt cops in the United States"? (You and  I agree on Steven's guilt Christina   Your comment just made me think about proof vs. speculation.)

Edited February 25, 2017 by Ohmo

[LakeGal]

She had the most unfortunate mug shot.  I laughed every time they flashed it on screen.  Those eyes...

[rwgrab]

7 hours ago, LGGirl said:

 

I can't understand how that they could arrest her with out verifying the IP addresses.

 

Exactly!  I was so mad at the police and the prosecutor acting as if there was just no way they could have avoided locking up the wrong person for 2 months or whatever.  How in the world did they secure a warrant for arrest of the ex?  Was the evidence just because they really, really thought it was her, even after some of the new girlfriend's accounts didn't make any sense?  

Even without the IP addresses, apparently some of the timestamps were from when she was giving a presentation in class.  That alone should have made the police exercise a little caution before locking her up.  

This was not "diabolical" as the episode title proclaimed.  At best, it was poorly investigated.  At worst, the police protected the US Marshal based on his word at the expense of locking up an innocent citizen.  The apology at the press conference was great, and I applaud them for that, but maybe check the electronic trail next time before throwing somebody in jail for attempted rape, etc.