All Episodes Discussion

[iMonrey]

After the Dance:

First off, when I turned on the TV for this it was tuned to 20/20 on ABC and an Andrea Canning lookalike was interviewing someone. I guess every true crime show has one.

Talk about your cold cases. The science behind it was interesting enough, but this really should have been whittled down to an hour considering how it turned out to be some rando they never mentioned until the very end. 

I'm used to shows jerking us around to a certain extent but then Josh Mankiewicz came right out and admitted they were shooting Rodney in closeup the whole time so as not to give away whether or not he was wearing a prison uniform. 

Also, during one of the interviews with the victim's brother he started to tear up and asked if they could stop for a minute. And the cameras kept rolling so as to capture every tear. It felt too exploitative and I was really put off by that. 

[Irlandesa]

I felt for Rodney.  It was such a crazy situation that you'd know they'd circle  back when every other avenue hit a dead end.  Even the  big "discrepancy" wasn't that big, IMO, as he was likely out of it and didn't really know how long he had been out. It's not like he was looking at his watch right before the door was opened.

Had some law enforcement been more trigger happy, he might have been convicted even though the evidence was meager. 

2 hours was a stretch, though.

On 1/22/2022 at 12:27 PM, ridethemaverick said:

This is probably nitpicky but it really irks me when stories about women being raped focus on how the husband feels/reacts. Frankly, I don't care. It's not about him. Both the victim and Andrea turned the focus on him a little too much for my liking.

Yep.  Same.  And it especially bothered me that they spent more time on how betrayed the husband was by the fact that it turned out to be someone he knew since he was a kid than they did on how the survivor helps other survivors of sexual assault. 

Random:  Last Sunday there was a repeat episode I hadn't seen before.  It was about a wife who got her lover to kill her husband who was also having an affair. She was guilty but the sister of the brother made me roll my eyes about how different "his" affair was compared to hers.  He didn't "plan" to have an affair.  Lady, he sat down next to a pretty girl at a bar and instantly starts asking her if she's married or has kids. He didn't just have an oopsie affair. And it probably wasn't his first.

[Annber03]

29 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I felt for Rodney.  It was such a crazy situation that you'd know they'd circle  back when every other avenue hit a dead end.  Even the  big "discrepancy" wasn't that big, IMO, as he was likely out of it and didn't really know how long he had been out. It's not like he was looking at his watch right before the door was opened.

I kept thinking about that when they kept harping on the fact that he went to her parents' home instead of calling the police. I mean, yeah, it would've been a good idea for him to do that, for obvious reasons, but a) he was disoriented from being beaten about the head, it's hard to think all that clearly in a moment like that, and b) he said her last words to him were to go get her father. So he naturally did what she told him to do. And he clearly felt safe around her family, and they were just a short drive away from where he'd been parked. So in that moment, that decision would've made sense to him.

As we all know, there's been plenty of stories on this show about how someone's odd behavior after a crime was proof of their guilt and all that, of course. But sometimes odd behavior really is just that - odd behavior. It's so easy to sit here and say what you (general "you") would and wouldn't do in a situation like that until you're actually in it. 

I just can't imagine what it'd be like to wait nearly 50 years for answers to who killed your loved one. So sad that her parents didn't live to see justice done, but I'm so glad that her siblings, as well as Rodney, finally got the answers they were seeking all this time. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

First off, when I turned on the TV for this it was tuned to 20/20 on ABC and an Andrea Canning lookalike was interviewing someone. I guess every true crime show has one.

Heh, I recorded that one and am going to watch it back at some point, 'cause it deals with an infamous cold case from my hometown. Probably won't have any real new information, because there hasn't been any new information on this case for years, but still, it's always interesting to see how shows cover this case anyway. 

[Ohmo]

Totally felt for Rodney.  Josh explained the camera trick, but before that, I thought "If they pan out, and he's in jail, I'm gonna be pissed."

I COMPLETELY think McCurley did this to other girls or women.  He might have known "of" Carla, but there's no indication that they knew each other well.  Which made it a crime of opportunity that he was likely to repeat.

And big props to the OG 1974 lab techs!  Quite a contrast to the ineptness we see in some cases.

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And the cameras kept rolling so as to capture every tear. It felt too exploitative and I was really put off by that. 

Yeah, that pissed me off.

I really enjoyed this episode. I liked this episode, quite a bit, especially that it wasn't the boyfriend. I'm glad that they found the guy in the end.

[UsernameFatigue]

I was really annoyed that years later the male and female cop who were investigating were still trying to pin the murder on Rodney. The reason? Because it is usually someone that the victim knows. None of the cops so called reasoning made sense when it happened, or years later. Going to the parents home which was close by made sense. Not knowing how long he was out made sense. But the fact that there was a part of a gun at the scene of where Rodney said it happened should have been a pretty big clue that Clara really was abducted. Was there ever any evidence that 18 yr old Rodney had a gun, let alone routinely carried it around in his mother's car? Sheesh. Not to mention he was hypnotized not long after it happened -I guess they felt that he could fake being hypnotized and make up the whole session, including details of the abductor. Fooled the hypnotist, apparently.  Also Rodney reunited with his high school friends that were also Clara's friends before the case was solved. Not likely that would happen if he was the murderer. That whole part of Rodney being a suspect, especially still years later, ticked me off. 

[JudyObscure]

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Random:  Last Sunday there was a repeat episode I hadn't seen before.  It was about a wife who got her lover to kill her husband who was also having an affair. She was guilty but the sister of the brother made me roll my eyes about how different "his" affair was compared to hers.  He didn't "plan" to have an affair.  Lady, he sat down next to a pretty girl at a bar and instantly starts asking her if she's married or has kids. He didn't just have an oopsie affair. And it probably wasn't his first.

I watched "Tangled Affair" too and had the same reaction. Both were married, go to a club by themselves, and sit alone up at the bar.  They were both looking to pick someone up, yet they were referred to as "innocent" at least three times and they kept interviewing the woman as the grieving widow.

I'm sure the killer's girlfriend (the victim's wife) egged him on and put the idea in his head, but he wasn't the poor manipulated little boy they tried to portray him as, either.  I thought he was one of the most chilling, cold blooded murderers we've seen.  Boldly casing her apartment pretending to be a plumber, then shooting the man in the back of the head four times, five minutes later, crying and whining like a four year old, saying he didn't mean to shoot him, he had to get a gun because, "He was bigger n' me, I was scared, I'm sowwy."  You could tell he'd spent a lifetime doing whatever he wanted and getting out of it with the sorry little boy act. Ugh.

[LakeGal]

After the Dance

I read up on the case a bit after watching.  Rodney said it has bothered him for years that the car doors were not locked.  He said they would always lock the doors when they parked.  But he had his mom's car this time.  They thought the doors were locked but they were not.  He said if only the doors had been locked it would have given them more time to react. They might have been able to get away.  

I also read that Clara was alive for 2 or 3 days after being abducted.  She had been injected with morphine a few times.  The coroner had said this.  That is another reason the fact they kept accusing Rodney made no sense.  He was with Clara's family after the attack.  Was he sneaking back to terrorize her for days?  Where would he have gotten the morphine?

[Ohmo]

9 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

That whole part of Rodney being a suspect, especially still years later, ticked me off. 

It didn't for me.  I felt for Rodney.  I did, but I also understood why they were asking.  Maybe it's because I watch these shows, but we've seen many cases where it does end up being the significant other of the victim, along with all sorts of stories that we hear in the public eye about truly horrendous crimes. I imagine that they hear many things that we don't.

A lot of time had passed since 1974.  These were also the second or third set of detectives on the case.  It was no different to me than making sure that the neighbor whose ex-wife accused him didn't do it, and Rodney would have been more plausible than the neighbor.  The detectives were re-checking the list, and Rodney was at the top of it.

The hypnosis did nada for me.  It was what they had in 1974, but it was still 1974.  I'd consider that to be about as reliable as a polygraph.

[UsernameFatigue]

14 hours ago, Ohmo said:

It didn't for me.  I felt for Rodney.  I did, but I also understood why they were asking.  Maybe it's because I watch these shows, but we've seen many cases where it does end up being the significant other of the victim, along with all sorts of stories that we hear in the public eye about truly horrendous crimes. I imagine that they hear many things that we don't.

A lot of time had passed since 1974.  These were also the second or third set of detectives on the case.  It was no different to me than making sure that the neighbor whose ex-wife accused him didn't do it, and Rodney would have been more plausible than the neighbor.  The detectives were re-checking the list, and Rodney was at the top of it.

The hypnosis did nada for me.  It was what they had in 1974, but it was still 1974.  I'd consider that to be about as reliable as a polygraph.

I think most of us on these threads are avid true crime show viewers. That is likely the reason that it bothered me that years later Rodney was still being investigated as a suspect. Now it is possible Dateline just made it look like the last set of detectives still considered Rodney a viable suspect, just as Dateline concealed Rodney's surroundings so we would not know if he was actually incarcerated. But the female detective did say "It is not usually a stranger".

We have seen shows where the spouse was convicted, despite having among other things multiple witnesses to their alibi. The one poor guy at a poker party, convicted of killing his wife, comes to mind. 

15 hours ago, LakeGal said:

After the Dance

I read up on the case a bit after watching.  Rodney said it has bothered him for years that the car doors were not locked.  He said they would always lock the doors when they parked.  But he had his mom's car this time.  They thought the doors were locked but they were not.  He said if only the doors had been locked it would have given them more time to react. They might have been able to get away.  

I also read that Clara was alive for 2 or 3 days after being abducted.  She had been injected with morphine a few times.  The coroner had said this.  That is another reason the fact they kept accusing Rodney made no sense.  He was with Clara's family after the attack.  Was he sneaking back to terrorize her for days?  Where would he have gotten the morphine?

Wow, I just read as well that Carla was alive for two days following the abduction, and injected with morphine. How convenient (though not unusual) that Dateline left this piece of evidence out of the story. I also read that in his original interview McCurley told the police that his wife was out of town that weekend, and that he worked until 4 on the day of the abduction and not the following day. And that his gun was stolen around the time of the abduction (he was interviewed 6 weeks after the abduction and said his gun was stolen 6 weeks earlier). And that he didn't report it stolen because he was an ex con. 

Hindsight is 50/50 but even back in 1974, McCurley seemed like someone they should have pursued. And certainly when the second and third set of detectives took another look. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by UsernameFatigue

[iMonrey]

Quote

I also read that Clara was alive for 2 or 3 days after being abducted.  She had been injected with morphine a few times.  The coroner had said this.  That is another reason the fact they kept accusing Rodney made no sense.  He was with Clara's family after the attack.  Was he sneaking back to terrorize her for days?  Where would he have gotten the morphine?

It's baffling that Dateline left that part out of the story. That pretty much eliminates Rodney as a suspect. I don't get it. Why did the police keep pursuing him if they knew that?

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I think most of us on these threads are avid true crime show viewers. That is likely the reason that it bothered me that years later Rodney was still being investigated as a suspect.

That's the reason it made the most sense to me to look at him again.  As the detective said, it's far more likely to not be a stranger.  Happens quite often. Unlike the poker party example where there were actual witnesses who were ignored, there was only Rodney in this situation.  If the case was going to be re-investigated, Rodney would have to be cleared. To just skip over him would seem unusual to me.  Just like the actual killer was able to evade capture for many years, Rodney could have done the same.  If there had been a situation like the poker party, I could maybe see not spending as much time on Rodney, but at the time, it was he and Carla and hypnosis. There were no witnesses or potential witnesses, so that required talking to Rodney again. It's as Josh said, because of who Rodney was to Carla and because of the lack of technology that we have today, Rodney was likely to get another look, even if only to exclude him.

[Irlandesa]

Yeah. I get why the new detectives decided to interview Rodney.  They had to start from 0 to make sure that nothing was missed by previous detectives. 

I just felt bad for him because for him, it has been decades of being interviewed as a possible perp instead of another victim.  That's going to make anyone have an attitude, I'd think.

But given that additional information that she was alive for a few days, it's harder to understand.

I'm glad they were able to eliminate him rather quickly. 

[ButterQueen]

I kept wishing that Rodney could have quickly driven the car and hit that killer.  Not sure how close he was parked.

I too wondered why the doors were unlocked.

[Ohmo]

So, this is happening.

The Thing About Pam Trailer: See Renée Zellweger's Major Transformation in NBC's True-Crime Miniseries

[Melina22]

I'm going to watch that! (Between Covid and winter, I'll watch anything.) 

[howiveaddict]

I can see Rodney driving to her parents when he came too.  Kids back then were a lot more naive and would have no reference on what to do like they would now days.  I felt bad for him and her family having to live with what happened all their lives.

 

[Tdoc72]

On 2/3/2022 at 3:26 PM, Melina22 said:

I'm going to watch that! (Between Covid and winter, I'll watch anything.) 

Me too. I saw the trailer and got mad for Russ all over again. I’m hoping it gets it’s own topic somewhere—maybe specials and one offs or whatever that thread is called. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Tdoc72

[Hava]

Quote

I'm used to shows jerking us around to a certain extent but then Josh Mankiewicz came right out and admitted they were shooting Rodney in closeup the whole time so as not to give away whether or not he was wearing a prison uniform. 

I could not believe that. I expect a certain degree of misdirection on Dateline, but this episode took it to a whole other level and made me upset. They basically admitted to casting suspicion--not even that, they basically made us believe he was convincted and in jail--on Randy for the sake of entertainment. Imagine if someone didn't watch the whole episode and left thinking Randy did it (as I was convinced during the episode before the reveal). Gross.

And it's creepy that they know what visual clues the viewers look for to determine who the killer is and they they completely subverted the their own norms by intentionally making someone look as though they were in prison. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Hava

[LuvMyShows]

What is happening with Dateline that there haven't been any new, or even "new" (meaning, at least being broadcast now, even if they've aired previously)?  Previous recent years there were consistent airings of episodes without such a long break

[Annber03]

9 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

What is happening with Dateline that there haven't been any new, or even "new" (meaning, at least being broadcast now, even if they've aired previously)?  Previous recent years there were consistent airings of episodes without such a long break

The Olympics were airing, so there were no new episodes, or reruns, of anything on NBC these last couple weeks. I think the Super Bowl last weekend was the only new thing, as it were, that did air on that network. 

But now the Olympics are over, there should be a new episode on this coming Friday. 

[LuvMyShows]

1 minute ago, Annber03 said:

But now the Olympics are over, there should be a new episode on this coming Friday. 

Woohoo!

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

What is happening with Dateline that there haven't been any new, or even "new" (meaning, at least being broadcast now

Maybe no dirt bag husbands have been killing their wives, and no crafty black widows have been conveniently killing their multiple husbands? No, it can't be that. 😁

[TVbitch]

48 Hours just covered the same murder as Friday's episode, but slanted much more toward the husband being guilty. Dateline didn't even bring up how the guy used the tranquilizer gun to shoot bucks and saw off their antlers, which made me hate him whether he is a murderer or not. 

Doesn't sound like there is a ton of evidence, so not sure how the trial will go. I guess a lot of women just happen to be murdered by someone else right when they are about to leave their husband. 

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

48 Hours just covered the same murder as Friday's episode, but slanted much more toward the husband being guilty. Dateline didn't even bring up how the guy used the tranquilizer gun to shoot bucks and saw off their antlers, which made me hate him whether he is a murderer or not. 

Doesn't sound like there is a ton of evidence, so not sure how the trial will go. I guess a lot of women just happen to be murdered by someone else right when they are about to leave their husband. 

I think Dateline did a very poor job of covering this story. I remember thinking that when Keith Morrison just casually mentioned that the husband tranquilized deer, I would have thought WTF? except that 48 Hours explained that he cut off the antlers of bucks. They did show a picture that included a pile of antlers in the corner of a room, but I don't think I would have put two and two together from that. So thanks 48 Hours.

There were certainly a lot more things on the 48 Hours show pointing to Barry's guilt, and a lot more about Suzanne's two year affair. I also remember on the 48 Hours episode that Barry claimed that he and Suzanne had made love the day before she disappeared. Not likely, considering she had told him that she was leaving, and hadn't cared about him for a long time.

In any case, as I posted on the 48 Hrs thread, I hope he is found guilty just so the animals in his vicinity (deer, chipmunks and who knows what else) stay safe. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by UsernameFatigue

[Morrigan2575]

11 hours ago, TVbitch said:

48 Hours just covered the same murder as Friday's episode, but slanted much more toward the husband being guilty.

Thank you. I was just coming to ask if Friday was a repeat even though it said it was new because I heard the story before. I didn't realize i saw it on 48 Hours 😂

Edited February 27, 2022 by Morrigan2575

[12catcrazy]

Interesting the different slant Dateline had on this case as opposed to 48 Hours a few weeks back.   Dateline seemed to have left out a lot of the info we found out about on 48 Hours and seemed to lean in the direction of leaving the viewer with some doubt that he did it (the victim's siblings feelings just the opposite).  

If the husband gets off, it's going to be a) no body has been found, and b) the reasonable doubt of the DNA on the inside of her car.    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 48 Hours say that the DNA was only a partial match to some guy who was a multiple sex offender?  Dateline made it seem that it was , oh okay, we got a DNA match of a known sex offender in the victim's car.   Dateline also didn't go into the details of the victim's affair as much as 48 Hours did (motive) and I don't think brought up that recording device disguised as a pen which the victim bought to use to prove her husband was cheating but which exposed that she was cheating.    I still think that he did it.  

[pdlinda]

34 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

I don't think brought up that recording device disguised as a pen which the victim bought to use to prove her husband was cheating but which exposed that she was cheating.    I still think that he did it.  

I do recall the recording pen in the Dateline episode.  Not sure they highlighted that it turned out to work against her.

I don't think hubby will be convicted, but that will depend on the quality and effectiveness of his defense team.  Jury selection will be CRUCIAL!

The reason I believe he'll either be acquitted or there will be a hung jury is because I don't believe the State can make their case that he did it BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.

[UsernameFatigue]

When there is a case covered on one of the true crime shows, particularly Dateline as they tend to leave out a lot of info, I often will Google to see what other evidence was left out of the episode. 

Barry told police that he went to bed at 8pm on Saturday night, but there is evidence of his truck being backed up to a door at his house at 9:30 pm. Data from his truck shows a door on the truck being opened and closed seven times between 3:25 and 3:45 am on May 10th. Barry then left at 6am that morning for his jobsite, despite the fact that he wasn't supposed to go until the next day, and in fact was to pick up a worker the next morning to travel to the jobsite. 

He first though went in a different direction, the direction where Suzanne's bike and helmet were found. 

Some of this I think was covered in one or both episodes -

- a shell casing on the floor beside Suzanne's side of the bed.

- tranquilizer cap found in the dryer

Barry said he used the gun to shoot chipmunks, but why would that explain a casing in the bedroom?

Barry said that he tranquilized deer to cut off their antlers. In May, deer are just starting to grow antlers, then shed the fully formed ones the next February.  So Barry would not have been tranquilizing any deer in May for their antlers. 

There was a piece of lacquered wood found in the fireplace, despite there being stacked wood for burning near the fireplace. There was also the remains of documents and books found in the fireplace. Suzanne kept a journal but it was never found. 

Suzanne confided to a friend, including via texts, about wanting to leave Barry towards to end of March, and that she didn't feel safe when he was home. Also that he kept begging her not to leave, and would not discuss divorce. 

Oh, Barry also put forth the theory that Suzanne was killed by shady people she was buying drugs from. Don't think there was ever any evidence that she did drugs? 

Anyhoo Barry is a POS, and I have no doubt a murderer as well. 

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

https://nypost.com/2022/03/04/sherri-papini-charged-with-faking-kidnapping-officials-say/

Sherri Papini charged with faking her kidnapping.  She was having a vacation with her ex-boyfriend, and faked everything.    I believe the case was covered on 20/20, Dateline, and a lot of other shows, and stories. 

[IntrovertRed]

I think Barry will get away with it.  Although there is circumstantial evidence that other husbands have been found guilty of in the same circumstances (ie no body). But Barry covered his tracks pretty well.  I wonder what his daughters truly think, poor girls.

It drives me nuts when people say a suspect never acted a horrible or suspicious way in front of them. So what?!  Smoke and mirrors, people!

I feel bad for Jeff Libler’s wife too. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by KLJ

[iMonrey]

Venom:

So, again - obvious from the start, it was the wife. They are interviewing everyone else but she's nowhere to be found. Clearly the wife. 

And oh, all those dummies who were so sure she wasn't guilty. The lawyer, the EMT, the other lawyer. The father you could forgive, because he's blinded by his love for her, but all the other people? She was so clearly guilty.

The topper was that interview with Andrea at the end. What a phony! How could she have fooled anyone with an act like that? She didn't even seem very bright. "Have you ever been through a trauma? Have you ever been through something like this? Have you ever sent nude selfies to your husband to soften the blow?" Andrea: "No." Ha! That's the first time I ever liked Andrea.

Honestly - there was no earthly explanation for why she brought that guy with her if all she wanted to do was ask for a divorce. She was already seeing that Brandon guy and she could also have brought along one of her co-workers. You know - the ones who testified she said she was going to kill her husband.

I can't believe she only got 13 years. It was so clearly premeditated. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by iMonrey

[Melina22]

I agree that by the end of the show she was obviously guilty, but I understand all the people who swore she didn't act like someone who was guilty. Listening to the 911 call, watching her body language in the first police interview, I would have been convinced she was innocent. 

We've seen so many cases where the guilty person pretended to be innocent but I've never seen anyone who could fake innocent this well. No wonder some seasoned professionals were taken in. 

It was only in the interview with Andrea that I could see how manipulative she was. The way she kept turning the questions back on Andrea, and the moments when her innocent mask slipped. 

Finally, am I the only one who thinks she's the spitting image of Kiersten Dunst in her court scenes? If Kiersten doesn't play her in the reenactment I'm going to be very annoyed. ☺️

[Crashcourse]

55 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I can't believe she only got 13 years. It was so clearly premeditated. 

Semi-attractive white woman.

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

She didn't even seem very bright. "Have you ever been through a trauma? Have you ever been through something like this? Have you ever sent nude selfies to your husband to soften the blow?" Andrea: "No." Ha! That's the first time I ever liked Andrea.

That was such a weird moment. I like how baffled Andrea was by that line of questioning, too. And her crying was so...over the top. If any of those tears were sincere, I think it was more her being upset that she got caught than anything else. 

I also love how she explained bringing her boyfriend with her because someone suggested she do that to "stay safe". Because that clearly worked out so well. 

Also, I'm still trying to figure out how somebody totally misses the fact that someone got shot eight times and immediately assumes they died of a snake bite. I'd have to think they must've taken the most cursory, quick glance at Ben's body to make that assumption, 'cause otherwise, I would think you'd be able to easily tell the difference between someone dying of a snake bite and someone dying of multiple gunshot wounds. 

[Melina22]

22 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I also love how she explained bringing her boyfriend with her because someone suggested she do that to "stay safe". Because that clearly worked out so well

I'd have to go back and relisten but wasn't she trying to say that after running away from the guy shooting at her husband, she then went to work and was surprised when her husband didn't pick the kids up? And was stunned later to discover him shot? 

She's great at faking emotion, but the greatest actress in the world couldn't sell that storyline. 

Or do I have it mixed up? It's all so ridiculous it's hard to keep it straight. 

Final comment... wow, that was the cleanest, tidiest reptile warehouse I ever saw. It was impressive. 

[TVbitch]

Oh vey. Can't believe all those people were snowed by this chick. But.. but.. she's small and pretty, with a little whispery voice, why, she couldn't hurt a fly! 

Now you may want to look out your window for flying pigs, people, cuz I am about to speak highly of Andrea Canning! She was great in that interview! She was NOT. HAVING. IT. Busting Lindsey on the nude photos, framing the brother, not even asking the dude why he shot her husband, and on why people who didn't even know each other all had the same story about her.  I hope Lindsey's deluded supporters were watching her dry cry as she tried to gaslight Andrea.  

PS. I continue to be shocked by the number of people in these stories who hear of a murder plot and just shrug their shoulders.  

[Melina22]

5 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

PS. I continue to be shocked by the number of people in these stories who hear of a murder plot and just shrug their shoulders.  

Yes! Good point. I don't know much about American law, but does this make them an accessory? If I know my friend is trying to find someone to kill her husband, and I say "Oh well. Not my circus," can't I get in trouble? 

[Annber03]

15 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

I'd have to go back and relisten but wasn't she trying to say that after running away from the guy shooting at her husband, she then went to work and was surprised when her husband didn't pick the kids up? And was stunned later to discover him shot? 

Something to that effect, yeah. 'Cause naturally if someone's shooting at my husband, my first instinct is going to be to go to work, instead of focusing on trying to protect my husband/get us to safety, and worrying about work later once all is calm. 

(Course, I also probably wouldn't pick right before going to work as my time to swing by my husband's place and start taking divorce proceedings, either, but...yeah.)

Quote

Final comment... wow, that was the cleanest, tidiest reptile warehouse I ever saw. It was impressive. 

I did get a kick out of how Ben's brother was going on about how boring, basically, he was, how he was more of a partier than Ben. Meanwhile I'm sitting here going, "I dunno, guy raises and sells snakes for a living, that's not exactly what I'd call 'boring'." 

But wow, what a rough family history. Losing both parents, being estranged over the farm, and now Ben's been murdered... 

Speaking of Andrea, I also have to admire her bravery in holding that one huge snake during her conversation with that woman who was explaining the various breeds out there. I don't even have a fear of snakes (I wouldn't own one as a pet or anything, but I can look at them without getting freaked out, unlike, say, spiders) and I was looking at that and going, "Ahahahaha, NO." I was amused when the lady started describing how snakes tend to kill people via strangulation....all while Andrea's got this huge snake draped around her neck :p. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Annber03

[Morrigan2575]

Good lord, how did she ony get 13+3 years?! She was so obviously guilty

 Also that final interview. Good god she was obviously faking it.

[JudyObscure]

7 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Finally, am I the only one who thinks she's the spitting image of Kiersten Dunst in her court scenes?

Yes, from the very first.  Maybe that's why those stupid defense lawyers we're so sure she was innocent.

Agree with everyone that Andrea was great in this one. I was more scared for her while she was talking to Evil Kiersten than when she had that anaconda around he neck.

I wonder if both those women witnesses got out of going to jail themselves in exchange for their testimony?  I can't believe they were willing to sit back and let a murder happen because maybe Ben would get custody if a divorce happened.

Poor Sam.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'd have to go back and relisten but wasn't she trying to say that after running away from the guy shooting at her husband, she then went to work and was surprised when her husband didn't pick the kids up? And was stunned later to discover him shot? 

Well, she changed her story so the sequence of events isn't clear. Her original story was that the daycare or whatever called and said the kids didn't get picked up so she picked them up then drove to the farm and found Ben dead. 

(This is also where I first raised an eyebrow because she said she just had a "feeling" something was wrong so she left the kids in the car.)

Her story on the witness stand is she ran away hearing the gunshots. So in this version she's not claiming she was surprised, she just went and picked up the kids. Who knows if the daycare people even called, she might have just driven straight there from the murder scene.

[12catcrazy]

Wow, that broad was a real piece of work.   I can't add much more to what the rest of you have already said.  And I'm totally disgusted that she got such light jail time for what was a really brutal and pre-planned murder.   If that had been a man who pumped 8 bullets into his wife, he'd be doing life without parole.  And yes, she did look so much like Kirsten Dunst (and when I said that to my 74 year SO, he said, "who's that?").  

And it really is mind blowing to know that somebody is plotting a murder and you don't call either the police or the intended victim.   That interview with Andrea was great - usually not a big Andrea fan but she nailed it there.  

[Morrigan2575]

21 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

wonder if both those women witnesses got out of going to jail themselves in exchange for their testimony?  I can't believe they were willing to sit back and let a murder happen because maybe Ben would get custody if a divorce happened

Yeah, I can't understand how easily they just agreed to kill a person. Especially the one that helped with the first attempt!

[patty1h]

Even though you've watched the Dateline "Venom" episode, I'm reccing a Youtuber who covers true crime stories and who did a video about the Renick case.   This Irish guy named Mike drops two videos a week, covering all types of crimes, from all over the world.  He's done several that were also covered on Dateline, 48 Hours, etc. 

He does a great job retelling some pretty serious cases, while not making them overly heavy and depressing.  Here is his take on the Renick murder:  Mike's tagline is "let's give it a goo"

[Melina22]

Thank you! I'll check his channel out for sure. 

[UsernameFatigue]

On 3/5/2022 at 3:26 PM, Melina22 said:

I'd have to go back and relisten but wasn't she trying to say that after running away from the guy shooting at her husband, she then went to work and was surprised when her husband didn't pick the kids up? And was stunned later to discover him shot? 

 

That had me literally laughing our loud. So there were at least 8 gun shots that she would have had to have heard, but was surprised to find that her husband might actually have been hit by a bullet (let alone all eight, and was dead as a doornail). She really was a terrible liar. 

I loved Andrea's interview at the end, but really wish she had asked Lynlee why she dug up some old boyfriend that she hadn't seen in 6 years to go with her to the farm to ask Ben for a divorce? He did deserve some jail time, but no way should he be serving a life sentence while Lynlee gets what amounts to a slap on the wrist. I assume the two employees got some sort of immunity for testifying, but as others have said, how horrible that neither bothered to alert the police to the murder plot. 

[JudyObscure]

I laughed through most of the Venom Dateline, particularly the cops being so scared of the snakes they could barely stay there, but now that I've just watched the YouTube thing I'm really kind of angry.   

That stupid Ashley!  Ben had a million dollars in life insurance money and she believed Lynley had to kill him for some ridiculous, imaginary custody battle. 

The spa had been losing money and Ben was kindly keeping it afloat.  (We have a couple of those spas in this little town and I always wonder who goes there.  No way I would ever pay to have some bimbos give me a massage and talk about my cellulite later!)

Where did they find such idiotic lawyers they believed Lynley was innocent or that her evil little lipless face was "beautiful?"

Why "second degree" murder when she had been planning it for weeks?  It was cold blooded, premeditated murder!  She'll be out while she's still young and able to talk that whispery baby talk and other people will suffer.

[GiandujaPie]

I agree with all who already commended Andrea for pushing back when Interviewing Lynlee. The main things that I found unbelievable about her story is that if she really didn’t know that her ex was going to shoot her husband, why would she get back into the car with a murderer???? And if she was so afraid of telling her husband that she wanted a divorce, why even do it in person? Then, there is the fact that 4 people testified on the stand that she wanted her husband dead and tried to do it. I can buy that an ex would lie about it but what possible motive would the 2 women have? Even if they felt pressured to say something, would they have been able to just make up a total fabricated story? Most people wouldn’t be able to keep up a lie like that for that long. Are we to believe every single person associated with that case is a pathological liar? You’d also have to be a pretty terrible person for 4 people to just lie and make up stories about you like that if you claim they are lying. 
i only wish Andrea had asked some of those tough questions to the people who were still defending Lynlee. 

[pdlinda]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Where did they find such idiotic lawyers they believed Lynley was innocent or that her evil little lipless face was "beautiful?"

My belief is that those "idiotic lawyers" were well connected with the prosecutors and worked that "miracle" charge out with them. 

In that case, whatever it cost her to retain them was well worth it.