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[cooksdelight]

Tonight’s episode:

 

[druzy]

Lori Vallow's niece was in court today

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by druzy

[cooksdelight]

I’m picking Jodie Foster to play the lead in the movie that will undoubtedly be made about this case.

[TVbitch]

Friday's episode was mostly a rerun, with an update. If you've seen it before, you only need the last 15 minutes. 

[druzy]

 

5 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Friday's episode was mostly a rerun, with an update. If you've seen it before, you only need the last 15 minutes. 

I hate when they label it "New", extend it to 2 hours, and trick me with the episode description only to include new footage of the husband claiming he is innocent and was on vicodin. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by druzy

[iMonrey]

I don't recall seeing The House on the Hill before. I can't get over the hubris of the husband sitting down with Andrea and denying any responsibility for the murders. But then I guess it takes a special kind of cocky sociopath to commit those murders in the first place. And his second wife did say he enjoyed being on TV and being the center of attention.

[amarante]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I don't recall seeing The House on the Hill before. I can't get over the hubris of the husband sitting down with Andrea and denying any responsibility for the murders. But then I guess it takes a special kind of cocky sociopath to commit those murders in the first place. And his second wife did say he enjoyed being on TV and being the center of attention.

No doubt he was a sociopath.

But there have been quite a number of sociopathic murderers who give interviews claiming their innocence. If I don't know the disposition of the case, I try to determine status based on the background and how the *perp* is shot.

I think I have seen this saga done on several shows. 

I don't understand how an insurance company pays out a large policy when the policy was taken out only weeks before the "accident". And it seems as though the insurance amount were disproportionate to the actual economic "value" of the wife and son. Not that I am placing a dollar amount on a wife, husband and father but it seemed as though the wife and the son were not earning a lot and most people in those economic brackets don't spring for life insurance. 

[BusyOctober]

I have seen the story about “Killer” Karl Karlson before.  For once though, Dateline had some new sides of the story I didn’t know before...like the dead horses in the “mysterious” barn fire, or his first insurance scam with his truck catching on fire and getting a payout.  I am so glad his surviving children and his brother saw him as the sick psycho he was.  I was worried the grown daughters and teen son would be brainwashed to be on his side. Only a true sociopath would opt to sit for a televised interview to plead his innocence.  Not an ounce of emotion at the time of the crimes, and not any sign of remorse once he was caught.

He has to be truly evil to set fire to his home with 3 toddlers and his wife inside.  Yes, he got the kids out, but I think that was only to add to his “dramatic tale of heroism “.  Trapping humans and animals to be burned and suffocated?? Dropping a car on your son and walking away while he was still alive??  If there is an afterlife, I hope Karl is roasting over a spit for eternity.

 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, amarante said:

I don't understand how an insurance company pays out a large policy when the policy was taken out only weeks before the "accident". 

My mom always wonders about that with these stories, too, how they're able to collect on the insurance so quickly.

45 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

He has to be truly evil to set fire to his home with 3 toddlers and his wife inside.  Yes, he got the kids out, but I think that was only to add to his “dramatic tale of heroism “. 

Seriously, the part when he talked about driving away with his kids, claiming he was trying to "get them to safety"...I mean, to just drive off with your kids, knowing your spouse is potentially burning to death in your home, and not even trying to come back and see what's going on or whatever? No. Nobody who genuinely loves their spouse would do that. Most people who know somebody they love is in a burning house, they have to be physically held back from rushing back in there themselves. We've seen people run back to try and save pets and sentimental items. Surely there were better ways for him to make sure his kids got somewhere safe while still allowing him a chance to try and save his wife, or at least be there as the firefighters arrived to see if she made it out okay or not, or something like that, if he really was as determined to save her as he claimed he was. 

But yeah, bottom line, at the end of the day, he's had two suspicious fires in his past, two people close to him who've died, and numerous animals have died as well. It's all way too much of a coincidence for anyone to brush those incidents off as just accidents. 

[Koalagirl]

Bastard claiming she had two means of escape  - the bathroom door and the boarded up window - made me want to throw something at the tv.  He knew the fire was right outside the door and how was she supposed barehandedly tear the board off?  He could have gotten a tool out of his garage to bash the board in and rescued her if he really wanted to. I’m wondering if he had homeowner’s insurance.  If he did maybe he would have been satisfied with that instead of killing his wife and collecting her life insurance. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I am really disliking this tread of true crime shows giving air time to convicted sociopaths to sit and lie to the viewing audience, like we are a bunch of idiots who are too stupid not to see through their BS. 

But I really came to this thread to see if anyone watched last night's 20/20 episode. It was right up there with overturned convictions where you wonder WTH the jury was thinking? No one has bother posting about the episode on that threat as yet, but hope some others here saw it, because it was a head shaker! 

[12catcrazy]

Wow, that guy was one cold hearted motherfucker.  Let his wife die in a fire that he set (and TRAPPED her so she didn't have a chance to get out), burned those beautiful horses to death, and (probably) pushed a truck on his son and coldly walked away and left him to die.   Wife 2 is damn lucky she didn't wind up a victim and I wonder if she had stuck around she would have been.   I hope that this bastard rots in jail for the rest of his life! 

[CrazyInAlabama]

That man collected over $200k on the wife, and $700k on the son, plus over $110k on the barn and horses.    He did it for the million dollars he collected.     The second wife is lucky to have escaped him.    I can't believe the insurance in both cases paid out in full when the policies were only bought very little time before the murders.      How could anyone think the wife's death was anything but arson, and murder?         

The way he killed his son was just as bad, where Karl rigged the truck jacks, jumped in the cab to make the truck fall, and then left his son to die.     He actually confessed to how he murdered his son.    

There was a rerun on OWN  yesterday, about a woman in Carrollton, TX who was attacked, and shot in the head, but managed to call police in spite of her injuries.    Her husband was with his long term mistress, at Lake Tahoe at the time.   The mistress was demanding that he divorce his wife, and do it soon.   

The man was convicted, but the two adult daughters still claim that being an adulterer wasn't a motive for murder, and testified for their father, and still support him.    The daughters talked about their mother's attack as if it wasn't that severe.   The woman lost an eye, was in the hospital for a long time, and will never be the way she was.   

The daughters are still defending their father, and ignoring what this did to the mother.  The mother said the daughters are angry that she didn't ask the judge for leniency.    The daughters didn't seem to have any concern for their mother at all.   There's also a son, but apparently he's staying out of the limelight, but still supports his father.    From other articles I read, all three children (the older son, and the two daughters shown on Dateline) all testified for the defense, and supported their father.    After the divorce, the victim receives $200 from the ex-husband, and he pays her health insurance.   However, he apparently is sending a lot more than that to the daughters, so that explains their support of him.   The daughter was so flippant about her mother's attack.   The younger being so happy that her father could walk her down the aisle, and everyone acts like they're all still a family.   As Nancy said on the Dateline clip, the father got what he always wanted, three children that love and support him, and the wife is gone from their lives.    

 I bet the reason he didn't try to divorce was because his finances would have been examined, and his embezzlement would be discovered.    The man also donated over $200k to their church, and the company wants it back.   The church said they're keeping the money, and the company filed a law suit against them. 

He was also convicted of embezzling about $6 million from his employer (part of the money went to his mistress' house in Tahoe, their other house, her daughter's education, and his high flying life style).     He was sentenced to life in prison. 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/frank-howard-hitman-kill-wife-nancy-howard-texas_n_1880675

This article talks about the mistress, the huge amounts of money he gave her (over $2 million at least), plus he hired her at the company he worked for so she would have health insurance.   

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2014/december/how-not-to-get-away-with-murder/

What staggers me is the attitude of the three children, who sided with the father, and were actually angry at Nancy for not asking the judge for leniency.     My guess is the poor ex-wife better get used to her children never caring about her.     The second article describes the extent of Nancy's injuries, and I'm amazed she's even alive.   The murdering ex-husband will be eligible for parole in 30 years.  

I'm sure the son, and the daughters will support dad, until the money runs out.    

Edited March 4, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[A.Ham]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

The man was convicted, but the two adult daughters still claim that being an adulterer wasn't a motive for murder, and testified for their father, and still support him.    The daughters talked about their mother's attack as if it wasn't that severe.   The woman lost an eye, was in the hospital for a long time, and will never be the way she was.   

The daughters are still defending their father, and ignoring what this did to the mother.  The mother said the daughters are angry that she didn't ask the judge for leniency.    The daughters didn't seem to have any concern for their mother at all. 

Oh, yeah, I still remember those two absolute morons. I don't think they are 100% in touch with reality.

[EtheltoTillie]

We had not seen last night’s case before so we watched the whole thing. Seems the police in California really dropped the ball on the forensic analysis of the house back in 1991. And the insurance investigator recommended against paying out, but the company paid anyway?  I guess they didn’t want to risk litigation. So sad. Paging Edward G. Robinson in Double Indemnity. 

We too were glad to see it was not another episode where the children side with the killer dad. 

[JudyObscure]

10 hours ago, GussieK said:

Paging Edward G. Robinson in Double Indemnity. 

Barton Keyes would have poked holes all through that sloppy crime. So many intriguing things about that case, starting with the first wife looking so much like the evil guy's sweet brother, right down to that rogue eye tooth.  

Wife 2 was an awesome little lady, putting herself in peril to trap her husband once she figured out he had dropped a truck on his son.  She had to know that a man who would do that wouldn't hesitate to push her in front of a bus after they left that restaurant.

She deserves to make it to our Crime Heroes list, along with some others like the cute young woman who gave the Walking Dead kill shot ( a knife to the eye) of Dirty John and that jewelry shop owner who went through a few hundred thousand receipts to help place the buyer of a ring found in a murder victim's house in the middle of nowhere.

[Ellee]

I think the daughters are totally in touch with the dad’s money regardless of how he got it.   
 

 

[Tabbygirl521]

19 hours ago, A.Ham said:

Oh, yeah, I still remember those two absolute morons. I don't think they are 100% in touch with reality.

One, especially, was such a giggler and babbler that I honestly think something was wrong with her - personality disorder or high as a kite. Defiant, defensive, sarcastic. “Daaaaad! Don’t have affairs! Hahahahaha!” Oh well, he’s only human. Reading above that she and sis got $$$$$ helps clarify things. I don’t remember the daughters commenting on the fact that their wonderful dad was a fucking embezzler. 

Dad was one of the coldest bastards ever, yet he sure could present as a good old sweetie pie. Scary as hell. 

[Ohmo]

On 2/24/2020 at 8:17 PM, ButterQueen said:

We used to message regularly, but I’ve not been on the boards much since October.  My husband has terminal lung cancer.

Sorry to hear that Butterqueen.  I'm a fan of the heart over the sad face, even though your news is most definitely sad.  Using the sad face just bugs me.  It always feels like it's saying that a poster doesn't like what another poster wrote, which seems too personal, but that's my own interpretation.  I hope that you and your husband are able to be with one another as much as possible and that you somehow find strength to endure your trials.

[Ohmo]

I think Karl Karlsen should have married Lori Vallow.  Then they could have plotted to kill each other (and hopefully been successful).

I read earlier this week that the cops want to search Yellowstone for Tylee's body once the snow melts.

I hope Lori Vallow fries in Hell.  What an absolute monster she is.

[cooksdelight]

Preview of this Friday’s upcoming episode:

 

[amarante]

I am not sure if these are all Dateline episodes but I seem to have watched a lot of episodes in which the wife *lures* husband to a deserted road where her lover shoots the husband and the wife then attempts to claim that a mysterious stranger - who just happened to be on this dark deserted road - randomly decided to kill the husband. Extra bonus points for claiming that the attacker was black because the wives are all white Southern women - or at least that seems to be the ones I remember.

Almost immediately the police find out the wife had a lover - in several the affair is so blatant that the car/truck has been spotted numerous times at the wife's home while husband is away.

Not sure whether cheating wives are really that stupid or it's just that the smarter ones get away with murder. After all, there have been a few Dateline cases in which the wife is only discovered with the death of the second or even third husband (or family member).

Not that husbands don't also kill their wives - and often in blatantly obviously ways. There was one in which the wife was somehow lured to a dead end road and shot by a woman and it only started to be untangled by police because some boys shooting snakes happened to see the murderess.

[Tdoc72]

On 2/22/2020 at 3:27 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

On this forum we often comment on the randomness of these murders - at the wrong place at the wrong time. 

Snipped & bolded by me. 

I know why people use this phrase but it always irks me a little. The victims were minding their own business and get killed. In this case, Katie was at her home at night.  That should’ve been the right place at the right time. Or a woman who was snatched from Target in the middle of the day, doing nothing wrong. You should be able to be there. Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.  

[Tdoc72]

5 hours ago, amarante said:

 

Not that husbands don't also kill their wives - and often in blatantly obviously ways. There was one in which the wife was somehow lured to a dead end road and shot by a woman and it only started to be untangled by police because some boys shooting snakes happened to see the murderess.

The Theresa Mayfield case. That’s one Dateline I always watch if it’s on. The killer was so cocky and got recorded confessing in jail. And the husband was asking everyone in town if they knew a hit man. What a dummy!

[SunnyBeBe]

On 3/1/2020 at 2:33 PM, Ohmo said:

I think Karl Karlsen should have married Lori Vallow.  Then they could have plotted to kill each other (and hopefully been successful).

I read earlier this week that the cops want to search Yellowstone for Tylee's body once the snow melts.

I hope Lori Vallow fries in Hell.  What an absolute monster she is.

I just saw Vallow, the reporter now calling her Daybell, in the courtroom
in an orange striped jumpsuit with red lipstick and false eyelashes! Man, she’s primping when her kids are missing. What a piece of crap she is. She doesn’t deserve the title of mother. It’s really disgusting. No clue why they reduced her bond from 5 million to 1 million.

Edited March 7, 2020 by SunnyBeBe

[Ohmo]

8 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I just saw Vallow, the reporter now calling her Daybell, in the courtroom
in an orange striped jumpsuit with red lipstick and false eyelashes! Man, she’s primping when her kids are missing. What a piece of crap she is. She doesn’t deserve the title of mother. It’s really disgusting. No clue why they reduced her bond from 5 million to 1 million.

Did you hear (per CBS This Morning) that the Rexburg PD is asking anyone who was at Yellowstone on September 9 (I think) to go through their cell phone footage or other sources of pics.  If anyone has footage, the cops want to see it.  They're looking for Tylee and where she could be in the park or if there's proof that she left the park.  I hope they find something.  If Tylee is dead, then maybe the evidence can be used to hang Lori.  She just makes me see red---the fact that this has gone on for months and the cops still can't nail her to the wall.

[cooksdelight]

They lowered Lori’s bail to $1 million. A totally stupid idea.

I didn’t believe there were that many stupid men on earth, but this case just proved that wrong. Guys.... ever hear of a background and criminal background check before handing over the keys to a new luxury car?

[cooksdelight]

These women with the gravel voices are making me use closed-captioning. I wish I could airbrush out Andrea’s scary eyebrows.

[Annber03]

Okay. So. Takeaways from this insane story:

-Somebody needs to punch this moron in the face. Hard. What a piece of freaking work. I love how people talk about how savvy he was, and yet he made so many stupid mistakes that made it easier to track him-posting photos of himself, keeping very similar names, using the same ol' hospital ruse practically every. single. time. I know that con artists will usually keep at least one or two details the same across all their schemes, to help ground some of what they're saying, but still...

Seriously, though, setting aside the obvious illegal aspect of it all, wouldn't all these crazy cons just get beyond exhausting after a while? If he'd taken even a fraction of the effort he put into all these scams and applied it towards an honest attempt to just, y'know, get a job, he may well have been able to actually become a doctor, or a lawyer, or any of the number of professions he impersonated. The cajones he had to create some of the more elaborate lies and ruses (North Korea? Really?!). Absolutely insane. 

-On that note, I find it very, very hard to believe that there wasn't something in his childhood/teen years that pointed to him turning out like this. They talked about him growing up in a nice home in a well-off neighborhood and all that (which, I'd add, doesn't automatically mean you'll turn out okay, but whatever), but I dunno, somebody who goes to these kinds of lengths, there's something wrong there. Deeply wrong. And it's been wrong for a long, long time. 

-I'm honestly amazed it took so long for federal agents to get involved in this investigation. I know they talked a bit about how some of these local police departments didn't have a lot of resources to tackle this guy, but since he was bouncing from state to state, I would've thought that'd be more than enough reason to get federal agents involved much sooner. It's absolutely stunning, though, just how many times the police let him go free. After a while I was actually yelling at the TV, "STOP LETTING HIM OUT!"

-I liked that these women banded together and helped each other out as they did. It's nice to see stories like this, instead of ones where women are fighting over some jackass who doesn't deserve it. 

-Stories like this make me glad I'm single. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Annber03

[UsernameFatigue]

4 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

Snipped & bolded by me. 

I know why people use this phrase but it always irks me a little. The victims were minding their own business and get killed. In this case, Katie was at her home at night.  That should’ve been the right place at the right time. Or a woman who was snatched from Target in the middle of the day, doing nothing wrong. You should be able to be there. Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.  

You have a different take on the phrase "the wrong place at the wrong time" than I do. For me wrong place and wrong time are the place and time that the killer just randomly happens to come across his victim. A couple of blocks earlier or later, and/or 5 minutes earlier or later,  and someone else becomes the victim. Or no one, if he doesn't happen to come across someone. In Katie's case, she left the party and walked home. The killer came upon her and offered her a ride which she refused. A few minutes later he saw her outside her house and attacked her. In this case there was the added fact that she could not scream and possibly alert her roommate's mother who was sleeping inside. But it any case it has nothing to do with the victim, and everything to do with the randomness of when the killer comes across the victim. No matter where it happens, including a Target parking lot. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I love how people talk about how savvy he was, and yet he made so many stupid mistakes

{Sigh} I mean, you never want to victim blame, right? The show went out of its way to portray this guy as some mastermind, so as not to make his victims look responsible in any way.  But still. Every last one of them didn't know he was stealing thousands of dollars from them until after he left. Like, they never look at their bank balance?? I check my balances at least once a week for that very reason. You can't be too careful in the digital age.

Quote

-On that note, I find it very, very hard to believe that there wasn't something in his childhood/teen years that pointed to him turning out like this. 

One of his victims - the first one from his college years - said she called his mother, and she was very cagey about his whereabouts. So yeah, I think his adoptive parents may have had a few loose screws as well.

Quote

These women with the gravel voices are making me use closed-captioning.

OMG one of the women had such horrible vocal fry I could barely stand it.

[UsernameFatigue]

I was surprised as well that it took so long for some of these women to figure out this guy had stolen from them. The original woman, Cindi, had $250,000 siphoned out of her accounts. She said she was quite successful, so did she have accountants looking after everything and not bother to check her accounts? And if so why would that person(s) not notice a huge increase in spending, not to mention a second name on her credit card? 

 OTOH, it is disgusting that when she did report it she was told that it would take a couple of years to get to her case. WTH? It seemed like the guy getting free baseball tickets by impersonating an officer was more morally reprehensible to some law enforcement officials that the fact that he stole from numerous women, including over a quarter of a million each from two of them. I know that is an over simplification, but it bugged both hubby and me. 

Regarding Derek's upbringing, sociopathy often has a strong genetic component, so chances are Derek was born this way and was conning his adoptive parents his whole life as well. 

[Mondrianyone]

36 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

not to mention a second name on her credit card

At first I was shocked that her credit-card company hadn't alerted her that someone had applied for (let alone received!) an authorized-user card on her account.  I get alerts from mine if someone spends a buck-fifty on my card in a place that they flag as unusual for me. But apparently he'd been filtering out email from her financial institutions, so if she'd been alerted, she wouldn't know it.  Yet if an accountant noticed she was missing a quarter of a million dollars, you'd think there'd be a more urgent alert than just some casual emails.

Also not to victim-blame (well, maybe a little), but these were all mature, successful women.  You have to know better than to invite some total stranger into your house and leave your laptop open, your phone lying around, your checkbook in a drawer that anyone can get into without a key, then go take a shower or lie down for a nap and give this person unfettered access to your whole life.  Maybe it's just been way too long since I've dated.

[Angeltoes]

My in-laws had some woman, who we will call Sally Sleezy, somehow attach her name to their credit card and go to town spending.  They lived in Florida while Sally lived in Colorado.  No idea how she got their number.  Mr. Angeltoes called the credit card fraud department on their behalf to report it.  Credit card company jumped right on it and said they would change their account number and send out new cards.  New cards arrive -  one for my FIL, one for my MIL and one for Sally.  Mr. Angeltoes went through the roof.  I would not have wanted to be on the receiving end of the phone call he made that time to the credit card company.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Angeltoes

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Mondrianyone said:

At first I was shocked that her credit-card company hadn't alerted her that someone had applied for (let alone received!) an authorized-user card on her account.  I get alerts from mine if someone spends a buck-fifty on my card in a place that they flag as unusual for me. But apparently he'd been filtering out email from her financial institutions, so if she'd been alerted, she wouldn't know it.  Yet if an accountant noticed she was missing a quarter of a million dollars, you'd think there'd be a more urgent alert than just some casual emails.

My mom and I were wondering about that, too. Especially if the stuff he was purchasing was different from the sorts of things normally found on those women's accounts. And then the fact he was able to use these cards despite them not being in his name-there weren't people checking on that stuff more often? There was that one hotel guy who alerted another to the guy's scam (which was hilarious), but still, for all the security measures that are supposed to be in place to try and prevent this very thing from happening, he sure seemed to be able to squeak by awfully easy.

Same with him being able to get perks with all those fake military badges and IDs and getting disability and whatnot...aren't there people who are supposed to be checking this stuff? My parents had to jump through a crapton of red tape when we needed to get certain aid, and my mom couldn't get disability for my dad when he was sick because she didn't meet certain requirements or something. Yet somehow this guy was able to get that stuff easily. How does that work? 

Quote

Also not to victim-blame (well, maybe a little), but these were all mature, successful women.  You have to know better than to invite some total stranger into your house and leave your laptop open, your phone lying around, your checkbook in a drawer that anyone can get into without a key, then go take a shower or lie down for a nap and give this person unfettered access to your whole life.  Maybe it's just been way too long since I've dated.

Again, same thought here. If I met a guy online and agreed to go out on a date with him, fine, but no way in hell am I letting him crash at my place immediately afterward. And then there was him constantly buying up all this extravagant stuff for one of the women when they'd only been dating for a couple weeks or so-that'd be a huge red flag for me as well. At the very least, it's a sign they're trying WAY too hard and need to ease up. 

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

OTOH, it is disgusting that when she did report it she was told that it would take a couple of years to get to her case. WTH? It seemed like the guy getting free baseball tickets by impersonating an officer was more morally reprehensible to some law enforcement officials that the fact that he stole from numerous women, including over a quarter of a million each from two of them. I know that is an over simplification, but it bugged both hubby and me. 

Yeah, I definitely agree that too many of the officers seemed rather dismissive of these women's complaints. Even if you think they were just foolish/scorned women, the fact remains that this guy committed serious fraud and showed no sign of stopping. He even got to the point of threatening some of these women as well. Go get him and take him in. It shouldn't be that complicated. 

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

One of his victims - the first one from his college years - said she called his mother, and she was very cagey about his whereabouts. So yeah, I think his adoptive parents may have had a few loose screws as well.

Either that, or they may have been scared of him and trying to shut him out of their lives as well. 

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

 OTOH, it is disgusting that when she did report it she was told that it would take a couple of years to get to her case. WTH? It seemed like the guy getting free baseball tickets by impersonating an officer was more morally reprehensible to some law enforcement officials that the fact that he stole from numerous women, including over a quarter of a million each from two of them. I know that is an over simplification, but it bugged both hubby and me. 

That just infuriated me.  The man stole over $300, 000 from one women, including her savings for her son's college education and they just couldn't be bothered, but let him get free tickets pretending to be a Navy man and  they all go nuts.  It's not the women who were over-reacting because their pride was hurt it was men like the fireman who just could not bear the thought of someone getting a  little bit of his respect without earning it.

 

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

{Sigh} I mean, you never want to victim blame, right? The show went out of its way to portray this guy as some mastermind, so as not to make his victims look responsible in any way.  But still. Every last one of them didn't know he was stealing thousands of dollars from them until after he left. Like, they never look at their bank balance?? I check my balances at least once a week for that very reason. You can't be too careful in the digital age.

I felt the way you did until this happened to a close family member.  One of the smartest, most put-together-women I know.  Someone who world totally never fall for this, right? She did.  She got conned.  (Although nothing like with Derek.)  She didn't lose money, but he was headed in that direction, and someone else in my family did as a result of her being with this guy.

That's what these guys use against you. Things weren't adding up for months, but we all convinced ourselves that those nagging thoughts we were having weren't real, that we watched too much Dateline, etc. In our situation, we could never prove anything (which is why the dirtbag got away with the money he did), but at least my family member got away from him before serious financial havoc could occur.  Women of financial means really should stay off dating apps. They are prey to these types of men.

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

that we watched too much Dateline, etc.

On that note, I liked that one lady talking about how her daughter was like, "Either this is the perfect man or you're going to be on an episode of 'Dateline'." 

I'm sorry that happened to your family member. I'm glad she was able to escape before he did any significant damage to her finances or any other part of her life. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Annber03

[patty1h]

2 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

Also not to victim-blame (well, maybe a little), but these were all mature, successful women.  You have to know better than to invite some total stranger into your house and leave your laptop open, your phone lying around, your checkbook in a drawer that anyone can get into without a key, then go take a shower or lie down for a nap and give this person unfettered access to your whole life.  Maybe it's just been way too long since I've dated.

These incidents always remind me of catfishing victims, particularly the love scams ones.  If anyone is familiar with the "Dirty John" story, these women remind me of the woman scammed in that case, which went like this:  Woman of a certain age meets "the perfect man" who sweeps her off her feet and she's blind to the red flags because she is so in love.  Here's a synopsis of  the "Dirty John" case for those unfamiliar.

I also see these victims on Dr. Phil, people in their 50's 60's and 70's, and you yell at your TV "open your eyes!" as you hear how these people say they have met the love of their life, as they send their retirement money to their soul mate who is trapped in Nigeria.  Apparently, there are people so starved for love that their sense of self-preservation disappears. 

 

[SunnyBeBe]

I am shocked that any business, hotel, restaurant, provides services to someone without a valid credit card, no matter what kind of letter they received. It’s laughable that a doctor sends a letter to a hotel that he will be responsible for the bill (that’s so 1960’s)....just call with credit card info for the charges. This applies to all, including, doctors, lawyers, servicemen, etc.  And this ruse went on for 4 days!!!

[Melina22]

20 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

These women with the gravel voices are making me use closed-captioning. I wish I could airbrush out Andrea’s scary eyebrows.

Cindy seemed great. She was smart, resourceful, determined and brave. But her voice made me insane! That particular type of voice is like nails on a chalkboard to me. Not her fault though, so I feel bad mentioning it. 

Andrea's brows were definitely somewhat wackadoo in this episode, but I have to be honest and say that I really like her and usually think she's beautiful. I like her better since an episode a couple of years ago when she was tearing up about something happening in her own life. It made her more relatable to me. (Also, her voice doesn't make me want to put in earplugs 😁) 

[TVbitch]

I was furious that Cyndi had a 1/4 million stolen, but the cops didn't care. However, the guy WENT TO JAIL FOR OVER A YEAR for defrauding the hotel of a couple thousand! Then he gets out and steals a bunch of money from other women, which induces more yawns from law enforcement, and is not persued again until he impersonates a fireman! Then after conning the last lady, they are more concerned about proving he was wearing military uniforms! I'm sorry, is it not illegal to steal over a million dollars from various women?!   

Okay, I won't pick on Andrea too much.... but... I did feel assaulted by her eyebrows, y'all. And, I think it was a mistake for her to bring up her husband being a fighter pilot in the interview with the perp. It weakened her position as a professional journalist by making the case personal to her, and the perp picked right up on that.  

Edited March 8, 2020 by TVbitch

[Ohmo]

32 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

And, I think it was a mistake for her to bring up her husband being a fighter pilot in the interview with the perp. It weakened her position as a professional journalist by making the case personal to her, and the perp picked right up on that.  

I really have no opinion on Andrea Canning,, but I actually quite liked that....because her husband is/was an actual fighter pilot, and Derek's sorry ass is in prison where it belongs!

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

I was furious that Cyndi had a 1/4 million stolen, but the cops didn't care. However, the guy WENT TO JAIL FOR OVER A YEAR for defrauding the hotel of a couple thousand! 

I'm not someone who sees sexism everywhere, but I have to agree with everyone who thinks all the theft of money from various women, sometimes in huge amounts, was shockingly ignored in this case. Without the other offences he might still be free, which is utterly baffling. 

 

[amarante]

4 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Cindy seemed great. She was smart, resourceful, determined and brave. But her voice made me insane! That particular type of voice is like nails on a chalkboard to me. Not her fault though, so I feel bad mentioning it. 

Andrea's brows were definitely somewhat wackadoo in this episode, but I have to be honest and say that I really like her and usually think she's beautiful. I like her better since an episode a couple of years ago when she was tearing up about something happening in her own life. It made her more relatable to me. (Also, her voice doesn't make me want to put in earplugs 😁) 

It’s vocal fry and it’s a deliberate affectation among a certain type of woman so feel free to hate it without guilt. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think one reason the police took the hotel fraud seriously, was that hotels document what they were ripped off for.     There is no way that the perp can say 'it was a gift', or an investment, or any of the other reasons that crooks use to excuse their thefts.   

[iMonrey]

Quote

It’s vocal fry and it’s a deliberate affectation among a certain type of woman so feel free to hate it without guilt. 

See, I don't think it is deliberate, in most cases. "Vocal Fry" became a thing because of young girls on social media trying to sound above it all talking like that. Yes, those girls do it for affect. But I think for a lot of women the voice just naturally falls into the back of the throat when they are speaking quietly and not exerting enough pressure. Yes, they could stop it if they were aware of it or aware it annoyed people. I don't think a lot of people even know it's a thing until it's pointed out to them.

I also think there is a certain amount of sexism attached to it. Bradley Cooper talks that way all the time and most people think it's sexy. But when women do it, it's "vocal fry." 

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

See, I don't think it is deliberate, in most cases. "Vocal Fry" became a thing because of young girls on social media trying to sound above it all talking like that. Yes, those girls do it for affect. But I think for a lot of women the voice just naturally falls into the back of the throat when they are speaking quietly and not exerting enough pressure. Yes, they could stop it if they were aware of it or aware it annoyed people. I don't think a lot of people even know it's a thing until it's pointed out to them.

I'm extremely aware of voices, and always have a reaction to them, positive or negative. In Cindy's case I don't think her voice is a deliberate choice, it's just how she talks. She could make it a lot easier on the ear, but it would take awareness and effort, maybe time spent with a vocal coach. I'm not saying she should do it, just that it's a thing some people do when they have a very nasal or grating voice. Certain regional accents can be part of it too. 

That said, it's not for me to tell people how to talk. Just because someone's voice sets my teeth on edge doesn't mean they need to change... I'm the hypersensitive one. But it's therapeutic for me to be able to vent here since I never get to in my personal life. It's incredibly unlikely Cindy will read this and be hurt. I hope. 

Hey, is there a Primetimer thread for Worst and Best Voices on TV? I'd love that. 

[MsJamieDornan]

On 3/7/2020 at 3:29 PM, JudyObscure said:

That just infuriated me.  The man stole over $300, 000 from one women, including her savings for her son's college education and they just couldn't be bothered, but let him get free tickets pretending to be a Navy man and  they all go nuts.  It's not the women who were over-reacting because their pride was hurt it was men like the fireman who just could not bear the thought of someone getting a  little bit of his respect without earning it.

It was so very frustrating. No one paid attention to the women or took anything seriously. Law enforcement should be ashamed of themselves. He got away with this scam far too long.

 

[12catcrazy]

I really wonder if it had been a WOMAN scamming bunches of men for hundreds of thousands of dollars that the cops would've blown it off the way they did.   And it really is so amazing how many other wise really smart, savvy, women fall for guys like this dude and the aforementioned "Dirty John".   And I think women have been fed so much of this "romantic" crap from the time they were girls that when some guy sends them dozens of roses after the 2nd date, they just check their brain at the door instead of seeing that as the large red flag that something is very wrong.  

About the comments of victims not checking their bank statements or credit card accounts, it's amazing to me how many people don't.  I work as a bookkeeper at a large Community Center/Y and there have been many times where somebody sees a charge from us after like 7 months and then calls up to question it.   Or cancels their membership (or so they thought) and still gets charged each month and wakes up to this fact a year later when they can't be refunded.     In defense of some of the victims on the show, the perp hacked into their email accounts and deleted notices and even changed the emails to one which he set up, and took out NEW credit cards in the victims' names,  so the victims had no clue.    Not seeing that he added his name to a credit card account though - I don't know how you can miss that.  Stealing money from a 401K - wow.  I'd hate the see the tax bill that woman got hit with.  

And with all the credit card fraud these days, you'd think the banking industry would push for tougher laws against these types of crimes.  Some years back a co-worker of mine was buying a car and was taking out a loan from her bank.  Apparently someone in the bank saw the loan application and used the info for identity theft and took out a bunch of credit cards in my co-workers name.   By the time my co-worker became aware of this (one of the banks got in touch with her), the thief had racked up over 50K worth of credit charges.   My co-worker went through hell getting that mess straightened out.   She wasn't held liable for the debt but it took over a year to clear her name and she had to have her name and soc security number "frozen" .   It just shows how anybody can be a victim of this.