All Episodes Discussion

[LittleIggy]

Yeah, committing suicide by shooting yourself in the back of the head seems the height of implausibility.

[biakbiak]

In the DAs statement dismissing the charges it said they did find fingerprints but not Madison’s I assume they mean on the gun because obviously his fingerprints would be in the house and I am assuming the fingerprints found were Michael’s (apparently they were both named Jesse and Madison and Michael were their middle names).

[TVbitch]

Did they do gunshot residue tests on the father and son? I have to believe if they did they would have told us those results at the end, and if they didn't, they fucked up the investigation irreparably. 

I'm 50/50 based on what we were shown, but it's so damn hard to believe the father shot himself in the back of the head. The way it was demonstrated was absurd. If Madison did do it, he for sure would have come up behind dad and taken him out first, then mom. It's plausible dad wouldn't have noticed him approaching cuz he was busy yelling at mom. 

[glowbug]

Regarding the 11 Minutes case, I truly don’t know what to think. The evidence doesn’t seem to fit either explanation well. Who shoots themselves in the back of the head unless they want to frame someone else for murder? But the lack of forensic evidence pointing to Madison also didn’t make sense.  

The father was clearly abusive though. It is in no way appropriate to handcuff your teenager. That warrants a CPS case, though it doesn’t sound like there was anything that was going to be done about it due to the father’s position in the town. I do find it interesting that Madison was living with his dad. The way it was stated made it sound like the other two kids were with the mom, and usually parents share custody of all the children. Also, the dad had substance abuse issues that were known to the family so you think all the kids would have been placed with the mom. Something very odd was going on in that family. 

Madison did himself no favors by allowing himself to be interviewed by Dateline. His affect was just completely off. His behavior in the interrogation was also off. I’m not as concerned about his behavior directly after his parents’ deaths because people don’t always act the way you would expect them to right after it happens but his current affect is off too. 

In any case, I’m glad they decided not to try the case. The prosecutor is right that there isn’t enough evidence to prove that he has done it beyond a reasonable doubt. If he were convicted there would always be that doubt, and if he were acquitted, they wouldn’t be able to bring charges against him later on if more evidence surfaces. 

Edited April 21, 2019 by glowbug

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Did they do gunshot residue tests on the father and son? I have to believe if they did they would have told us those results at the end, and if they didn't, they fucked up the investigation irreparably. 

I was wondering about that, too! I kept expecting them to make mention of that at some point throughout. 

[biakbiak]

7 hours ago, glowbug said:

do find it interesting that Madison was living with his dad.

It happened a month after his mom filed for divorce so I don’t think there was anything that formal going on.

Also, it wasn’t really discussed on the show but the father resigned from his position as mayor for undisclosed “personal reasons”. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I also found the fact that Dateline didn’t mention that they found Madison still in handcuffs until very late into the episode interesting because that clearly was a choice to make the viewer more open to the idea that it was a homicide.

Agreed. I'm sort of torn here because while I think it's very odd for someone to shoot themselves in the back of the head, I think it's equally implausible that Madison could have un-cuffed and re-cuffed himself the way the Sheriff speculated. 

I'm also impressed that Madison never once wavered in his story even when he was being offered a clear out. And it did seem like the Sheriff had tunnel vision where this kid was concerned. I think whether or not Madison heard the gunshots is irrelevant but the Sheriff seemed like he thought that was solid evidence against him. Yeah maybe you can hear a gunshot from that distance standing there listening for it, but what about when you are running in a panic and yelling for help? There's really no reason for Madison to lie about that even if he's guilty.

On another note, can I just ask . . . what on earth was up with that one uncles hair?? So weird.

[mythoughtis]

18 hours ago, biakbiak said:

In the DAs statement dismissing the charges it said they did find fingerprints but not Madison’s I assume they mean on the gun because obviously his fingerprints would be in the house and I am assuming the fingerprints found were Michael’s (apparently they were both named Jesse and Madison and Michael were their middle names).

The fingerprints were the Moms on the trigger/ which is pretty odd in itself.  They never mentioned gunshot residue.  Which test  should have been the first thing they did on the son.  That, no blood, and the handcuffs would make it hard for me to believe the son did it.  Do I think he is innocent of this crime?  Unknown, but there’s definitely enough reasonable doubt to acquit. 

11 minutes to get out of handcuffs, shoot both parents, panic, calm down, figure out what to do, get back into handcuffs, and run to a neighbors, and have the neighbor call police? 

Was he an angel? No, he was a stupid 17 year old.  17 year olds do stupid things like throw parties and think about homecoming.  They can totally  think about stupid stuff in the wake of tragedy.  

What sheriff’s deputy walks out of a house and leaves a minor handcuffed?   That is unlawful restraint at the very least.  

[Jeanne222]

When the show ended I didn't think he was guilty of murder.  If I was on a jury I would have had reasonable doubt.  Heck we never even got to hear the defense attorney rattle on which would have added more fuel to the not guilty.

It was strange that he said he didn't hear the gunshot as he ran to the neighbors.  I wondered if it was muffled because it was right next to the head in both killings. 

I would guess the son didn't like either of them but I don't think he killed them.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Jeanne222 said:

was strange that he said he didn't hear the gunshot as he ran to the neighbors.  I wondered if it was muffled because it was right next to the head in both killings. 

See I don’t think it’s that all that odd we heard and processed as a gunshot because we were primed to hear it. I have actually been closer to someone being shot and I didn’t hear it but others did but it also made me really want to know if the neighbor heard it because that in relation to when Madison arrived would seem to be a key piece of evidence but it’s not mentioned here in the admittedly not in depth google search I did about the case.

Edited April 22, 2019 by biakbiak

[Ohmo]

On 4/21/2019 at 2:00 AM, TVbitch said:

If Madison did do it, he for sure would have come up behind dad and taken him out first, then mom. It's plausible dad wouldn't have noticed him approaching cuz he was busy yelling at mom.  

That's another reason that I think points more to Madison than it does to his father.  If the intent is for Madison's dad to shoot his mother in a murder-suicide, his intent would be to kill her, meaning ensure that she was actually dead before killing himself.  Shoot her twice or whatever. Plus, he was in law enforcement for a time, so he would likely know how to neutralize a threat.  Yet, the mother did not die at the scene.  The father did, which to me, points toward Madison "taking out" the threat (his father), but not being so able or committed to doing the same to his mother.  He still talked about her in loving terms and mentioned visiting her grave.  It's like he didn't WANT to kill her, but since he had killed his father and his mom probably realized it, he figured he had no choice.  There was one person who was dead at that scene and that was dad.  Coupled with dad being shot in the back of the head, that points to Madison really wanting to be sure dad was dead.  In the murder suicide scenario, I'd expect that to be mom.

Madison getting in and out of the handcuffs in 11 minutes doesn't strike me as odd or even implausible.  They were his father's handcuffs, and I'd be willing to bet that if his father had been in law enforcement when Madison was younger, Madison probably spent time as a kid messing around/playing with the handcuffs to see how they worked.  Not because he might have had any thoughts as a kid, but just because kids tend to be curious.

Where I find the 11 minutes implausible is that the situation beforehand was all about Madison--what his parents were going to do etc.  Yet, in 11 minutes, the father supposedly completely shifts away from the situation with Madison and focuses on a murder-suicide plot involving his wife.  That timing is completely hinky to me and waaay too coincidental and opportunistic for Madison.  Suddenly, not only is his problem with his parents solved, he also has a handy alibi that his dad did it.

[biakbiak]

14 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

lus, he was in law enforcement for a time, so

He was an EMT/firefighter and former mayor, he resigned after two years for nonspecific reasons not, in law enforcement. Did they mention if he was currently employed.

Quote

from thesituation with Madison and focuses on a murder-suicide plot involving his wife.

Murder suicides are more often not “plots” which implies planning ahead they happen in the instance when a fight escalates and then someone is shocked at what he did. They did clearly remove themselves from Madison because they were found in the bedroom and the deputy left them in the living room. And had been in a physical altercation with him having scratches and the mother having his DNA under her fingernails.

I don’t see why it’s easier to believe that Madison did all the stuff from a vague threat to go to the court is likelier than his father realizing he had shot his estranged wife and than realizing Madison wasn't in the house and because it was stated that he didn’t like to be “embarrassed”’or “shamed” chose to kill himself perhaps in a manner that could look like something else. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by biakbiak

[JudyObscure]

I wonder if it's possible the mother was furious at the father, shot him in the back of the head and then shot herself in the chest?  Her fingerprints were on the gun.

 Or maybe as the two were scratching and fighting, he shot her and then she picked up the gun and shot him as he was turning away?  Lots can happen in a few minutes of out of control fury.  In spite of her prints on the gun, I doubt if these dopey, redneck police  ever once considered that a woman might have done the killing.  They were just so impressed with the father because he had once been mayor of that sad little town.

[RedheadZombie]

I may need to take a break from these shows to regain my empathy.  My only thought watching this episode, was how chins are strongly hereditary, and how there are serious consequences for naming your son one of the trendiest girl names of the last twenty years.

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

how there are serious consequences for naming your son one of the trendiest girl names of the last twenty years.

He apparently goes by Jesse they just used Madison, his middle name, because his dad’s first name is also Jesse.

[RedheadZombie]

15 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

He apparently goes by Jesse they just used Madison, his middle name, because his dad’s first name is also Jesse.

I cringed every time I heard it.  And I underestimated how long it's been a popular girl's name.  It became popular after the movie Splash (she took her name from Madison Ave.), and that was back in 1984.

[UsernameFatigue]

The link posted above by biakbiak had some interesting info that I don't remember being on Dateline. Besides having her husband's DNA under her fingernails (which I think was on Dateline) April also had several bruises.

If Madison did it, why would he have left April alive when she could ID him as the shooter? She didn't die until the following day.

Michael had narcotics in his system when he died. Since he was called home from work because of the party, it appears like he was taking drugs while at work. (Doesn't say where he worked at that time, but still.....sounds like he was out of control to be doing narcotics while working).

Michael was ambidextrous so he could have used his left hand to shoot himself. I am ambidextrous as well so that seems plausible to me. 

The police definitely seemed fixated on Madison being the killer, despite evidence to the contrary. They certainly ignored his repeated requests for a polygraph. I also think the fact that his story never changed points to his innocence. How many times do we see the guilty change their stories several times? If Madison was lying, he had minutes to come up with a story and stick to it. I give credit to the DA in the link for saying the evidence pointed more towards Madison's story being the truth, than it did to him murdering his parents. 

[Morrigan2575]

Just finished the episode. I felt dropping the charges made sense it was about iffy case. It certainly didn't seem beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Tdoc72]

On 4/15/2019 at 11:40 AM, 12catcrazy said:

And on the Judgy McJudgy end of things, what the hell has happened in America where everybody has baby daddies/mamas and few have husbands or wives?   Is becoming a single parent now a source of pride with all these dumb young women or what?  Not talking about "morality" here but it's like the whole social fabric of society is changing and I can't really believe it's a good thing.  I've seen the difference in my own family between the kids who have the married parents and the ones with the unmarried/never married ones.  I just don't get it...

IMO, it’s not the marital status of the parents that’s the issue; it’s the quality of parent they decide to be. There can be some stellar single parents and some crappy married ones. It all depends. 

[Enigma X]

8 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

IMO, it’s not the marital status of the parents that’s the issue; it’s the quality of parent they decide to be. There can be some stellar single parents and some crappy married ones. It all depends. 

Hear fuckin’ hear!

[12catcrazy]

14 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

IMO, it’s not the marital status of the parents that’s the issue; it’s the quality of parent they decide to be. There can be some stellar single parents and some crappy married ones. It all depends. 

This is true and always was.  It's just that raising children is expensive - it's one thing to be a single, well-off parent, and another to be very young (as so many of these women are) and struggling to make ends meet with "Baby Daddies" who don't seem all that invested.   And yeah, I've seen my share of deadbeat ex-husbands, but look at the statistics folks - something like 21% of America's children are living below the poverty line and around 40% are in families considered to be "low income".  And children with single mothers are much more likely to be in the poverty line or low income end than children with married parents.   NY Times did an interesting article about this a couple of years ago.  And to go totally off topic and get everybody riled up - I don't understand these states that pass these new "heartbeat" laws and then go ahead and cut the benefits for low income families.  It's like WTF???    Are they going to be bringing back workhouses next? 

[iMonrey]

Not much of a mystery about "She Never Came Home," except why it took police 30 years to solve it. I think this would have been better sold as a tale of botched police work. Seems like the evidence was staring them in the face the whole time.

I'd also like to know who this mystery "guitar man" was and why they never specified his identity. That was very odd.

Finally, I couldn't help but think of Mr. Heckles on Friends every time they said the victim's name, Katherine Heckel. 

[Melina22]

I found the Kathy Heckle case to be another one of those deeply unsatisfying episodes. Did Lloyd do it? Maybe. Is she really dead? Probably. Should he be in jail? Depends who you talk to. But after decades no one is certain. 

I wish Dateline would somehow tag episodes as Resolved / Unresolved, or something similar. I think I'd skip the Unresolved ones. It's like reading an Agatha Christie novel where you find out at the end that the butler might have done it, but maybe he didn't. 

[TVbitch]

These episodes that involve a decades old case are my least favorite. It is pretty much always the original suspect/obvious person + new investigator + new DNA = conviction. Usually with a bit of shoddy police work on the side. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by TVbitch

[atlantaloves]

Exactly....but I think they got the right guy in this case. That was horrible.  

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I found the Kathy Heckle case to be another one of those deeply unsatisfying episodes. Did Lloyd do it? Maybe. Is she really dead? Probably. Should he be in jail? Depends who you talk to. But after decades no one is certain. 

I wish Dateline would somehow tag episodes as Resolved / Unresolved, or something similar. I think I'd skip the Unresolved ones. It's like reading an Agatha Christie novel where you find out at the end that the butler might have done it, but maybe he didn't. 

Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but this case has been resolved.  There was a trial, a verdict, a conviction, and a sentence.  That's a resolution.

As to the "should he be in jail," question, I don't find that to be that unique to this case.  Unless a person confesses (and doesn't later recant), most convicted people are going to say that they don't belong in jail.  Prosecutors are going to believe they do, so "depends on who you ask " happens in more cases than it doesn't.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Ohmo

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'd also like to know who this mystery "guitar man" was and why they never specified his identity.

Wasn't the guitar man her other lover?  Her old classmate with whom she reconnected and had a physical relationship? Or he played at her reunion? He came to the police station and was honest which is what eventually led the police to think he was less suspicious than the guy who lied about the affair (and later stalked her with this other lover.)  They identified him. 

17 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but this case has been resolved.  There was a trial, a verdict, a conviction, and a sentence.  That's a resolution. 

I'd agree.  He was always their number one suspect.  It looks like most of the evidence pointed to him. It was circumstantial but I've seen people convicted on this show with less evidence. 

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

As to the "should he be in jail," question, I don't find that to be that unique to this case.  Unless a person confesses (and doesn't later recant), most convicted people are going to say that they don't belong in jail.  Prosecutors are going to believe they do, so "depends on who you ask " happens in more cases than it doesn't.

I agree, and I do think he probably did it. But the defense made some very good points. I guess I hate that nagging feeling in a case that maybe, against all odds, the circumstantial evidence pointed to the wrong person. It has to happen occasionally. 

Maybe I need to stick to fiction, because as you point out, real life cases are rarely black and white. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I agree, and I do think he probably did it. But the defense made some very good points. 

Oh I don't know, I felt like the defense was laughable. Witnesses saw the guy fighting with the victim then he took off after her and came back an hour late and nobody ever saw her again. I mean . . . how much more do you need, aside from the DNA evidence they also found in his car? Sometimes I almost feel bad for defense attorneys. Imagine having to defend someone who is so obviously guilty. "Yes, he does have a swastika carved into his forehead but that doesn't prove he's a Nazi!"

[UsernameFatigue]

It does seem like the police work initially in the Kathy Heckel case was shoddy. When Lloyd said that there was a piece of carpet missing in his van due to kids getting oil etc. on it, did they ever ask the kids? Mind you they could be coached, but it sounds like the police just took his word for it, Ditto with waiting 13 months to check out the guitar guy's alibi, then finding missing pages in the log. Did they check out the guys he said he was golfing with? Again they could lie, but would all lie for him? 

Oddly enough it wasn't what was said on the episode itself that finally made me sure Lloyd was guilty, but a discrepancy between what Lloyd's lawyer said and what Lloyd himself wrote. In the interview with his lawyer, the lawyer said yes, Lloyd had an affair with Kathy, but so did the guitar guy. In the letter that Lloyd wrote to Dateline, Lloyd said that he did not have a romantic relationship with Kathy, or have sexual intercourse with her. When the lawyer and his client are telling completely different stories about a rather basic and important fact, that does not point to innocence in my book. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by UsernameFatigue

[cooksdelight]

Dang, tonight’s episode happened almost in my backyard in NC! Funny that I don’t remember hearing about it on the news. I was driving that stretch of I-40 just last week.

[Melina22]

I'm stunned by how utterly improbable the entire story was, even though I believe it happened. By the end of the first hour I was certain the first guy had faked a home invasion to cover gambling debts. Thank goodness for him he was eventually cleared. 

So many coincidences, so many inexplicable events (like the red pickup who chased the guys and ran one of them over for cutting him off!). What about making the first guy take a shower then vacuuming his house? 

If they make a movie about this, I'm buying a ticket! 

[Melina22]

Oh, and I forgot to mention them wearing masks to look like a woman and an African American. You can't make this stuff up! 

[LittleIggy]

I loved how the pissed off guy in the pickup helped break the case wide open. 😆

Apparently they got the most money when they did a good old fashioned bank robbery. Those other attempts with the elaborate scenarios mostly flopped.

Entertaining episode with nobody getting killed!

[biakbiak]

It was distracting that the car the used to recreate him driving to the bank wasn’t red because they repeated the car was red more than once so it was odd they didn’t use one!

[Lizzing]

I've got to hand it to Dateline--tonight's episode was much, much better done than ID's "Home Alone" take on the story.  That ep (S2:E1) focused only on the first guy and his mother's story,  kinda glanced over the rest of the abductions and attempted robberies, and left out all of the pre-planning and disguise intrigue.

I'm glad no one was hurt too badly so I could laugh at the FBI guy's barely concealed contempt for his son-in-law, who was driving the red car that got hit in the pursuit.  I can almost hear the daughter on the phone, "Dad, it wasn't his fault!  I know he's just an aspiring restaurant manager, but he was being careful!" And FBI Dad being all, "Yeah, right.  I gotta check out that footage for myself."  And also, the pissed off red pick up driver!  It kinda inspired me to unleash my inner road rage and help solve crimes! LOL!

[JudyObscure]

I laughed a few times, too, but mostly I was furious over all the people who let the victims down.

Matt calls his boss, saying, "My life is on the line, here. Don't call the police!"  The boss immediately calls the police.

The police don't have the sense to at least go undercover, but sit outside the bank waiting for Matt.  If the robbers had been in the car they might have shot Matt right then.  Next the police yell across the lot at Matt for awhile and then make Matt sit in the car in the 9 degree cold.  They had a sniper team ready to shoot Matt if he had panicked.

  The bomb squad takes hours to get there, surprised to find an actual human connected to the bomb, because I guess they hadn't been communicating with the police at all,  and then, with only minutes to spare, give Matt the third degree in the parking lot themselves.  Finally, as zero minute approaches, they position themselves far away from  Matt, I guess so when 11:00 arrives the bomb squad wont get hit by any Matt parts when he explodes.   At last, at about 11:15, when the bomb squad feels nice and safe, they remove the "bomb" from Matt, telling him to kick it away (instead of telling him to step carefully over it) and run.  Unbelievable.

I don't blame the police for interrogating Matt at first, but there was nothing in his story to make him seem dishonest.  Why would he have made up details he himself didn't understand like the middle-of-the-night drive and the shower?  The vacuuming to get up incriminating fibers made immediate  sense to me, as did the shower to remove Matt's sweat so the tape would stick, but I don't think the police figured that out until the robbers explained it for them.

Matt's boss took a chance with Matt's life, the police and bomb squad put him in extra danger, his business suspended him, and Matt's own brother and nephew couldn't wait a split second before telling the police he was a gambler who probably owed money to bookmakers.

All along the way, police, friends and family doubted the victims.  The very worst case was Brooke's  whose bank manager  was willing to let her teller's child die, in order to save a little bit of money that was insured by the FDIC.

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by JudyObscure

[Melina22]

54 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Finally, as zero minute approaches, they position themselves far away from  Matt, I guess so when 11:00 arrives the bomb squad wont get hit by any Matt parts when he explodes.

I know! It was horribly reminiscent of the other case with the pizza guy. "Let's just sit here and watch him and see if he blows up". 

The poor woman with her baby in the car! What a horror story! 

7 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Entertaining episode with nobody getting killed!

That could be the most astonishing aspect of the whole thing. No one was killed, or even injured, apart from the guy who got run over by the pickup. I mean, they brought the first guy's mother cookies! No wonder no one believed her. And time after time, they just let people go. 

That said, they left so many people with lifelong PTSD. So harm was done. 

8 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Apparently they got the most money when they did a good old fashioned bank robbery. Those other attempts with the elaborate scenarios mostly flopped.

Just one more crazy aspect. Months of elaborate planning and stalking, and in the end, how much did they get? $190,000? They should have stuck with their day jobs. 

It's hard to believe they got away with it for as long as they did though. It seems like no one was communicating with each other as these bizarre incidents kept unfolding. 

Yup. I want to see the movie. 

[TVbitch]

This was like some cartoon caper. The criminals were meticulous and very clever, yet pretty much ineffective.

I too was horrified at how they treated Matt. Why would Matt call his boss to tell him what was happening if he was in on it. He knew that would make him #1 suspect. I also thought of the pizza bomber and how they just let that guy die. I know police have to be careful, but Matt had zero criminal history and was living a very obvious white bread life.

I hope the guy in the red pickup was also put in jail. You cannot chase after someone who cuts you off at high speeds, interfering with a police pursuit, and then run them over. That was ridiculous! That guy was putting people in danger, too.  

[Mondrianyone]

I wonder if Matt still has any relationship with his brother and nephew.  And if his mother does as well.  I've cut people out of my life for a lot less than that.  Thanks for all your help.  Now go walk off a bridge.

[biakbiak]

46 minutes ago, Mondrianyone said:

I wonder if Matt still has any relationship with his brother and nephew.  And if his mother does as well.  I've cut people out of my life for a lot less than that.  Thanks for all your help.  Now go walk off a bridge.

Though we don’t actually know what the brother and nephew said just how it was characterized to him by cops who have been known to lie/stretch the truth when interrogating a suspect. 

I actually don’t blame the boss for calling the cops a crime was being committed and the bank is his responsibility and he would have had to answer to his bosses about how he handled the situation. That said I do fault the police for how they handled the situation which was the real problem.

[thejuicer]

My favourite part about the episode is that they didn't kill anyone. I'm not saying they're saints, and they could have killed people during the high speed chases, but at least they didn't hurt their captive victims. 

[Mondrianyone]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

Though we don’t actually know what the brother and nephew said just how it was characterized to him by cops who have been known to lie/stretch the truth when interrogating a suspect. 

I do understand a little about how cops work, since both my mother's brothers were NYPD.  But we know that they said Matt was a gambler, and it turned out he was a gambler.  Brother supplied them with that piece of info, whether the cops exaggerated it or not.  If my family member (including my mother, for God's sake!) were in the kind of trouble Matt was in, I wouldn't tell the cops anything at all negative that could bolster his link to the crime.  I found myself wondering if there was some kind of sibling issue that would make the brother want to be "helpful" in a way that was anything but.

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, Mondrianyone said:

my family member (including my mother, for God's sake!) were in the kind of trouble Matt was in, I wouldn't tell the cops anything at all negative that could bolster his link to the crime.

They said they contacted them during the ordeal so it’s entirely possible that the brother and nephew didn’t have any clue what was going on. A lot of people cooperate with police officers, I wouldn’t but a lot of people would and not see in issue with telling the truth.

[Ohmo]

22 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Apparently they got the most money when they did a good old fashioned bank robbery. Those other attempts with the elaborate scenarios mostly flopped.

At least the one bad guy was a meticulous planner with all of those target packages of victims and potential victims.  I kept thinking that if he would have put all of that planning and thought into some activity that was legal, he might have been able to make a good amount of money that was legally his that, you know, he could actually keep.

These types of criminals with these elaborate plans. All of this planning was work., so if these people are so willing to do work in order to try and commit a crime, why are they so against work in a job that could pay them legal money?  This wasn't just a quick smash and grab crew.

[Irlandesa]

15 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

At last, at about 11:15, when the bomb squad feels nice and safe, they remove the "bomb" from Matt, telling him to kick it away (instead of telling him to step carefully over it) and run.  Unbelievable.

This part I think the victim embellished or had a false memory, as the bomb squad guy laughingly surmised.  In fact, as soon as it came out of the guy's mouth I called BS. For one, even though the bomb squad guy was wearing a bunch of equipment, he didn't want that thing going off.  He was right there.  He'd still get injured.

I kind of wanted to know what evidence they brought in front of the grand jury and whether or not they had voted to indict. 

I especially wonder whether or not they could use anything he said in his interrogation.  If I were a lawyer, I might argue it was a violation to interrogate him before reading him his rights (assuming they didn't) as he was handcuffed immediately. I can't imagine "for safety" would hold up in court.

Another thing I'm curious about is what happened to "road rage" guy.  Sure, he caught the bad guy but he's not a cop, he sped and he literally ran the guy over. 

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

They said they contacted them during the ordeal so it’s entirely possible that the brother and nephew didn’t have any clue what was going on. A lot of people cooperate with police officers, I wouldn’t but a lot of people would and not see in issue with telling the truth.

Yep.  And people want to be honest so if the cops asked "does he gamble" and he did, they're going to say that he did.

[UsernameFatigue]

On 5/4/2019 at 1:15 PM, TVbitch said:

.

I hope the guy in the red pickup was also put in jail. You cannot chase after someone who cuts you off at high speeds, interfering with a police pursuit, and then run them over. That was ridiculous! That guy was putting people in danger, too.  

ITA. It was totally ridiculous as it is obvious that there was no reason for the guy in the pickup to chase the SUV since it is being pursued by the police. Honestly when they said the guy in the red pickup ended up running over the guy, I thought that it sounded like a Coen brothers movie!

The other thing that was ridiculous to me was that the police had the house where the two guys were living under surveillance for a couple of weeks, They could have apprehended them before they got into the SUV. Police already knew that these two had no regard for others, and in fact would smash into other vehicles in order to evade capture. IMO the police put other people on the road at risk, when there was no reason to. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by UsernameFatigue

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 12:53 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

ITA. It was totally ridiculous as it is obvious that there was no reason for the guy in the pickup to chase the SUV since it is being pursued by the police. Honestly when they said the guy in the red pickup ended up running over the guy, I thought that it sounded like a Coen brothers movie!

The other thing that was ridiculous to me was that the police had the house where the two guys were living under surveillance for a couple of weeks, They could have apprehended them before they got into the SUV. Police already knew that these two had no regard for others, and in fact would smash into other vehicles in order to evade capture. IMO the police put other people on the road at risk, when there was no reason to. 

I haven't seen this episode, but I'm going to take a flying leap and guess this is a white guy?

[JudyObscure]

The show did say that the police arrested the bad guy, who was only slightly hurt from being run over (?), and that Mr. Roadrage of the red pick-up was also arrested and put in the cell beside him.

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

The show did say that the police arrested the bad guy, who was only slightly hurt from being run over (?), and that Mr. Roadrage of the red pick-up was also arrested and put in the cell beside him.

Yes, but he wasn't shot dead at the scene, right?  That's how I know.