S03.E02: Part Two - Disengage

[cambridgeguy]

6 hours ago, storyskip said:

Anyone else considering the possibility that Jean-Luc is lying?

Just bear with me a minute.

Beverly said “trust no one” and especially not to bring in StarFleet.  Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, Jean-Luc is fast on his feet and strained 20 years aside, by just coming out to the nebulae he’s backing Beverly’s play.

A quick, down and dirty “excuse” to override the sitting Captain and try to run/hide/buy time would be “kid’s my son so I’m going to save him!” Then unwind the details later.

The writers may prove me a fool, but I think Jean-Luc ran with a handy assumption that suited his needs in a tense moment. I don’t think it’s the reality of the situation.

Possibly, but on the other hand Jean-Luc goofed with Deep Space 4 slip in the last episode, so he's not exactly at his peak self.  Of course, he was simultaneously clever enough to use those transporter inhibitors while also forgetting about their existence a few minutes later when the Titan was trying to beam them out.

[greekmom]

7 hours ago, storyskip said:

Anyone else considering the possibility that Jean-Luc is lying?

Just bear with me a minute.

Beverly said “trust no one” and especially not to bring in StarFleet.  Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, Jean-Luc is fast on his feet and strained 20 years aside, by just coming out to the nebulae he’s backing Beverly’s play.

If that's the case, then I have to hand it to Jean Luc for pulling a fast one on Captain Douchebag. But sadly, I dont think the writers are that clever. Plus both Riker and Seven saw the "similarities" to Picard. At least Seven paused and did notice "something" about Jack jr.

I wonder what is Captain Douche's problem? 

Also, anyone notice that Seven's hand no longer has the Borg tech?  And I wonder given the fact that Captain Douche hates the Borg, does Seven now sleep in a bed or does she still need a Borg alcove? 

Edited February 24, 2023 by greekmom

[Zaffy]

I have no problem with Picard's son, but his character is so annoying, so annoying... he is that close to be as annoying as Indiana Jones' son. Wesley is amazingly cool compared to him.
I enjoy the season so far. Even the Raffi parts (WORF!!!). 
And Captain Vadic is a delight.

These beautiful end credits keep reminding us the TNG theme is one of the best OST tunes ever composed. Great Jerry Goldsmith.

p.s.
Captain!
(all three: WHAT?)

Captain Shaw: "We're basically a hotel now! "
 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Zaffy

[paigow]

32 minutes ago, Zaffy said:

I have no problem with Picard's son, but his character is so annoying, so annoying... he is that close to be as annoying as Indiana Jones' son. Wesley is amazingly cool compared to him.

Wesley was initially annoying, but eventually grew out of it... Unfortunately, Jack 2.0 did not...

[marinw]

19 hours ago, ofmd said:

Another Retconned Son aka Young Picard

It's a retread of Bloodlines. Can you buy Picard's DNA on Space Amazon? The Romulans also managed to make Shinzon, there was that young man from Bloodlines who's Mom apparently liked Starfleet officers, and now at least one offspring.

Picard had become one of those admirals who keeps pulling rank and overideing the captian's better judgement. I keep comparing Shaw to Jellico, they are both asshats but in many cases they aren't wrong.

Unlike Jellico, Shaw's bark is worse than his bite. Why didn't he relieve Seven as soon as she took the Titan to Ryton?

I read somewhere that Micheal Dorn now considers Worf to be the Jason Bourne/Jack Bauer of this Universe. He is certainly in fine form.

Edited February 24, 2023 by marinw

[paigow]

10 hours ago, storyskip said:

Beverly said “trust no one” and especially not to bring in StarFleet.  

How did she think Picard was going to reach the edge of Federation space??? His Runabout parked in the vineyard?  Uber? Orion Pirates?

[chaifan]

I'm enjoying this season, but it seems less "Star Trek: Picard", and more "Star Trek: The Next Generation Movie We Didn't Get Around To Making So Let's Do It Now Before Patrick Stewart Dies".  I liked "Picard" for how it was different from TNG - (mostly) new characters, new motivations, etc.  I knew Worf was returning, but I was so hoping the sword swooshes were from Elnor's blade.  No Elnor, no Alice, Seven has been so neutered from her fun, wild character in seasons 1 and 2, Raffi's boring, Larin's at the chateau...  I miss those characters.   But, I have an affinity for TNG, so I am enjoying the reunion that this is.

I was also hoping that the explanation behind Jack Crusher was that Beverly found an abandoned orphan in her Doctors without Galaxy Borders travels, and adopted him and raised him on her own.  I personally don't see any similarity between Jack and Picard, beyond a British accent, which previous posts have pointed out is not genetically inherited!  Maybe our "out" here is not that Picard is purposely lying, but that Bev was lying to him when she gave him the nod.  (Or, that she meant something else entirely, but was still too out of it to do anything else.)  My alternate explanation is Q.  When you need an out from a major plot hole, just blame Q.  (I can't remember - what happened to Q at the end of Season 2?)

 

 

 

[marinw]

3 minutes ago, chaifan said:

(I can't remember - what happened to Q at the end of Season 2?)

I think he died. Bummer.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

How did she think Picard was going to reach the edge of Federation space??? His Runabout parked in the vineyard?  Uber? Orion Pirates?

Well, apparently La Sirena was the only independently run vessel capable of dealing with troublesome voyages in known space. 

Beverley: 'Trust nobody - not even Star Fleet!'

*Picard meets with Riker in shady bar with no privacy*

Riker: 'Let's highjack commandeer a Star Fleet ship with 500 people aboard!

Stellar writing there.

Edited February 24, 2023 by MissLucas

[iMonrey]

Quote

Listen, Shaw may be an asshat who clearly doesn't have the respect of his crew, but Riker and Picard outrank him.

I'm trying to figure out if that's true. Shaw pointed out that Picard is retired so I'm not sure what authority he has - if any - over Shaw. As for Riker, he is the exact same rank as Shaw, except without a ship - something else Shaw pointed out last episode.

Quote

I feel for Seven. I also think a year at least at Starfleet Academy would have prepared her better for an active starship role. Janeway babied her, Fenris toughened her up but gave her a lot of freedom

What is Fenris? I know Seven was a Fenris Ranger but I have no idea what Fenris is. Is this something I would have had to watch Discovery to know about?

Quote

What annoys me is that Jack is going by Crusher when he's not descended from the Crusher family. If it's not Picard, it should be Howard, Beverly's maiden name.

Beverly's legal name is still Crusher, she has every right to give it to her son regardless of whether or not her dead husband is the father. I have a friend who gave her baby the last name of her deceased ex-husband because she kept that last name herself and did not remarry. The ex-husband's family wasn't too happy about it but there wasn't anything they could do about it.

[AWhittle]

Amanda Plummer (Yolanda "Hunny Bunny" from Pulp Fiction)!

A lot of remakes of old shows get re-imagined with a harder modern day epic edge. Think of the original Battlestar Galactica and the remake years later. Now think of Star Trek TOS (even TNG) and now...

Harlan Ellison had a TOS script with a drug addicted crew member. Roddenberry nixed it and had it rewritten (City on the Edge of Forever) because he didn't want drug addiction issues in the future. And now...

Fans found it hard to believe a crew bottled up on a spaceship all the time and have no one get one each other's nerves, arguments, fights. Now...

Funny: If you want to find out real intel/ word on the street, you have to go to the black market in the seediest bars and clubs with mean faced, musclebound bodyguards and converse over the loud music. I am surprised Starfleet didn't send undercover spies or bug all those places sooner.

Edited February 27, 2023 by AWhittle

[MissLucas]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What is Fenris? I know Seven was a Fenris Ranger but I have no idea what Fenris is. Is this something I would have had to watch Discovery to know about?

Fenris is a planet where the Fenris Rangers are based. The writers probably picked the name due to its badass connection to Norse mythology.

Luckily you don't need to watch Discovery.

[paigow]

18 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What is Fenris? I know Seven was a Fenris Ranger but I have no idea what Fenris is. Is this something I would have had to watch Discovery to know about?

 Discovery has no connection to this timeline.

Fenris is a planet near the Original Romulan Neutral Zone. The Rangers were a Vigilante Group created for self defence  because neither the Romulans or Federation established any control / laws. The nearby planet Vashti - where current Picard recruited Elnor- was also protected by Fenris Rangers. 

[Tachi Rocinante]

17 hours ago, starri said:

She's absolutely channeling her father's performance as General Chang.  And I am here for it.

Naah, it's all Honey Bunny to me.

Was hoping for a 12 Monkeys reunion, but oh well. To be honest, though, I first thought Sneed was Jay Baruchel.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:48 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

First of all, this season is shaping up to be the best Star Trek in almost two decades (we are not quite at the point where ENT ended, but coming up to it). The characters seem consistent, the story makes sense and there are relatable stakes.

That being said, I have some nitpicks:

 

- "Galarian fever is fatal at the rate of one life per minute."

That's not how diseases work, Jack. You can establish a rough mortality rate, but how many people die per minute will differ depending on how many people are infected.

 

- They mention that the Titan is an "exploritory vessel" and outgunned, before even scanning the other ship? How can that be? The Titan has always been one of the top of the line Star Fleet ships. Galaxy Class, Defiant class, etc. Rikers Titan was a Luna class, which as far as I can tell, was a pretty heavy hitter. I know she was retrofitted in the meantime, but they probably didn't make her worse, did they?

 

- How the Titan broke the tractor beam looked stupidly impossible. Did they warp in there or was it just high impulse into a dead stop? Good thing they have impulse dampaners, I guess.

 

- "I believe it is afternoon in the Sol system."

That's not how time of day works. Every point on every planet has another time of day. For example, it is afternoon here, while it is already after midnight in Australia.

Now, there is federation standard time, but then why would you single out the Sol system? Makes no sense.

 

- "How do we know he really is her kid." (Captain Shaw regarding Jack Crusher)

I don't know? How could you possibly know that? It's not like you have her in sick bay, him in the brig and could easily compare their DNA..........

 

- How can Jack be Picard's son? We were told Beverly disappeared from his life 20 years ago. That actor is 35 years old and looks it. Is he supposed to play a 20 year old? My suspension of disbelieve can only take so much...

To briefly respond to some of your nitpicks:

As you concede, one can establish a rough mortality rate, and that rate could be the equivalent of one death a minute. Obviously that rate can go up or down based on the population, level of infection, etc. But for all practical purposes as a rough estimate, there is nothing wrong with Jack saying that 1 person is dying a minute from the disease.

It took me aback somewhat that a Titan-A would be deemed a mere exploratory vessel as well. But given that it is, what, a couple decades since the Titan was the top of the line Alpha-Dog ship at the time of Lower Decks, it's at least plausible that its successor is now somewhat of a backbencher compared to what Starfleet's current ships are. The fact of the Shrike's size and that its shields prevented its armaments from even being scanned suggests that the Titan-A was very much outmatched.

Since Federation Standard Time and Sol system time are presumably interchangeable, doesn't seem a big deal to me that Baddie said one rather than the other.

The DNA thing is admittedly stupid. 

Assuming that Jack is indeed an offspring of JL, we don't know when/how he was conceived, whether there was tech involved, how old he is supposed to be, etc. etc. etc.

If he was a product of old-fashioned sex between JL and Beverly, I would think that the window for that happening was limited.  It seems to me clear that they did not have sex within the time frame of TNG. The implication seems to be that they hooked up just prior to Beverly going dark about 20 years ago, and that he is thus about 20, give or take.

But in a sci-fi world with cloning and genetic manipulation, for all we currently know, Beverly took a strand of JL's hair and made herself a baby, or accelerated his maturity for reasons. I'm willing to wait to see how the writers try to explain all this.

One thing I will say, though: assuming that Jack 2.0 is indeed JL's son, it's kind of an extra middle finger to JL to name JL's son after the best friend who JL has guilt over both getting killed and lusting for his wife. (On top of not telling JL or anyone of his existence, I mean.) Who knew that Bev was extra petty? 

[benteen]

I thought the episode was excellent and think they should have dropped this one with last week's premiere. They'll really need to explain the Jack Crusher thing and there are always a few hand waves but I thin Season 3 of Picard is off to an awesome start. Very cinematic and love the use of the old music.

What's helping is that this is the first time in three seasons I've felt that Patrick Stewart is consistently playing PICARD as opposed to feeling like Stewart is playing Stewart. His character thrives when he's in command of the situation like this.

Michael Dorn was only in the episode for thirty seconds and had one line but already has managed to slip back into the character again like he hadn't left it. Great return for the character.

Have been a fan of Ed Speelers for a while and like Jack. Shaw actor is doing great work and he's not wrong about what Picard and Riker have selfishly gotten the Titan into. The Titan rescue was awesome. Enjoy Amanda Plummer and I imagine we'll get mire nuisance as the show goes on. Picard and Crusher chemistry is still there, even when they are silent.

Really looking forward to next week's episode. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

6 hours ago, greekmom said:

Plus both Riker and Seven saw the "similarities" to Picard. At least Seven paused and did notice "something" about Jack jr.

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

I personally don't see any similarity between Jack and Picard, beyond a British accent

More so when compared to Tom Hardy as young Picard.

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

(I can't remember - what happened to Q at the end of Season 2?)

3 hours ago, marinw said:

I think he died. Bummer.

We didn't actually see Q die, but he said he was going to die very soon.

14 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The DNA thing is admittedly stupid.

Also, there's a Vulcan onboard who could potentially confirm Jack's story with a mind meld.

[marinw]

10 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Also, there's a Vulcan onboard who could potentially confirm Jack's story with a mind meld.

Can all Vulcans Mind Meld? And isn't Mind Melding without the consent of the Meldie problematic? (The Undiscovered Counthry nonwithstanding) If Jack is as shady as he appears, he isn't going to consent.

On 2/23/2023 at 5:43 PM, starri said:

She's absolutely channeling her father's performance as General Chang.  And I am here for it.

I didm't realize those two where father and daughter! Cool! Chang was one of my favourite Klingons.

Edited February 24, 2023 by marinw

[paigow]

5 minutes ago, marinw said:

Can all Vulcans Mind Meld? And isn't Mind Melding without the consent of the Meldie problematic? If Jack is as shady as he appears, he isn't going to consent.

Spock is only half-Vulcan and can meld with ANY life form... Also Star Trek VI - He performed a non-consensual meld on treasonous Lt. Valeris to unravel the conspiracy...

[marinw]

1 minute ago, paigow said:

Spock is only half-Vulcan and can meld with ANY life form... Also Star Trek VI - He performed a non-consensual meld on treasonous Lt. Valeris to unravel the conspiracy...

Not sure if it's canon, but IIRC in the novelisation of Undiscovered Country Spock did sort of ask half way through the Meld. YMMV.

[ML89]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Well, apparently La Sirena was the only independently run vessel capable of dealing with troublesome voyages in known space. 

Well, they left Knockoff Han Solo* in the past, so...

 

 

 

 

 

*I grew to really like him in Season 2...he and Seven saved that season for me.

Edited February 24, 2023 by ML89

[Chicago Redshirt]

16 minutes ago, marinw said:

Can all Vulcans Mind Meld? And isn't Mind Melding without the consent of the Meldie problematic? (The Undiscovered Counthry nonwithstand) If Jack is as shady as he appears, he isn't going to consent.

As far as we know, the default is that all Vulcans are capable of melding. Enterprise threw in a wrinkle where Vulcans did not mindmeld for a lengthy period of time for cultural reasons, but I think it is a reasonable assumption that although there might be differently abled Vulcans who cannot, most Vulcans can.

If Jack were unwilling to consent to a basic meld to confirm that he's Beverly's son, that would say a lot. But then again, it would be unnecessary, as his DNA should tell the basic tale. They presumably don't need his consent to take that, if they even need to extract it since they presumably have some level of it from having transported him.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

48 minutes ago, marinw said:

Can all Vulcans Mind Meld? And isn't Mind Melding without the consent of the Meldie problematic? (The Undiscovered Counthry nonwithstand) If Jack is as shady as he appears, he isn't going to consent.

As far as we know, they can, and post-"Vulcan's Forge" arc we've seen various standard Vulcan traditions that involve mind melding.

But they didn't ask him or the raise the possibility. And a meld would confirm not only that he's Beverly's son but also his claims about Beverly being involved in his business and not knowing why Vadic has it in for him.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Forgot to mention that one of the ships right after the title screen (9 min) looked like the paint job was a tribute to Eddie Van Halen. 🤘

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

But they didn't ask him or the raise the possibility. And a meld would confirm not only that he's Beverly's son but also his claims about Beverly being involved in his business and not knowing why Vadic has it in for him.

Forget the mind meld, every Starfleet vessel should just have a full Betazoid on board.  Yes, some species can't be read, but the telepathic scan has always come across as less invasive - even the rudest, most powerful one we've seen (Tam Elbrun) didn't cause any discomfort. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

As far as we know, they can, and post-"Vulcan's Forge" arc we've seen various standard Vulcan traditions that involve mind melding.

But they didn't ask him or the raise the possibility. And a meld would confirm not only that he's Beverly's son but also his claims about Beverly being involved in his business and not knowing why Vadic has it in for him.

Not to go too deep in the weeds, but I think a meld would only confirm that he believes himself to be Bev's son. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

Forget the mind meld, every Starfleet vessel should just have a full Betazoid on board.  Yes, some species can't be read, but the telepathic scan has always come across as less invasive - even the rudest, most powerful one we've seen (Tam Elbrun) didn't cause any discomfort. 

Actually I was thinking that earlier; given how often Starfleet deals with untrustworthy characters, they should have at least one telepath on every ship. Not to mention first contacts.

[catsitter]

I am glad to see on here that the bounty hunter's name is Vadic. I thought they were saying she was a Vedek which made no sense.

[SnarkShark]

On 2/23/2023 at 5:47 AM, cambridgeguy said:

Hmm, apparently accents are genetic.  Or did Jack spend his formative years listening to Picard's old logs and other British people?

In a surprise to no one, Worf is the guy working with Raffi.  Unlike Riker and Picard he still seems pretty spry.

Or not.  His accent isn't even close to Picard's IMO.  I mean they're both vaguely British sounding, but not very similar.

"Do the Math" Will?  The math doesn't work out.  Limey Jack is in his mid 30s.  Didn't they claim Beverly disappeared 20 years ago?

And... the language of the message last episode made it pretty clear Rafi's handler was Worf.

Since when doesn't ship Security search someone before putting them in the Brig? 

Edited February 25, 2023 by SnarkShark

[Starchild]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:55 PM, Lokiberry said:

Will Seven end up killing him and assuming command, and that's the next spin-off?

I would totally watch a Captain 7 show.

[Chaos Theory]

As someone who has ALWAYS shipped Picard & Beverly Crusher &  HATED the fact that TNG never pulled the trigger especially after "Attached" I am fine with them having a great love affair & then not speaking to each other for 20 years.    I can buy an oops pregnancy even with advanced birth control because nothing is 100% and my head cannon has Picard and Beverly meet again and with no rank between them they have a great love affair thinking Star Fleet is over for both of them then Picard gets a chance to captain maybe his last ship and Beverly never tells him she is pregnant.  At least that is how I am playing it at the moment.  

Edited February 25, 2023 by Chaos Theory

[Frozendiva]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:33 AM, greekmom said:

And how did Vadic know that Picard is synthetic and that Captain Douchebag has... issues!?!?!

Probably had a file on a lot of folks. Did her homework.

The ep got cut off just when Beverly got to the bridge. What happened after?

[dwmarch]

12 minutes ago, Frozendiva said:

The ep got cut off just when Beverly got to the bridge. What happened after?

Picard and Beverly shared a look that told Jean Luc everything he needed to know about Jack. Picard issued "Admiral's orders" to belay handing over Jack because "he's my son". Capt. Shaw said god damn it, the Titan fired a few torpedoes at the Shrike and ran for the nebula. Vadic gleefully ordered her crew to follow them and she cackles maniacally as the episode ends.

[Frozendiva]

13 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Picard and Beverly shared a look that told Jean Luc everything he needed to know about Jack. Picard issued "Admiral's orders" to belay handing over Jack because "he's my son". Capt. Shaw said god damn it, the Titan fired a few torpedoes at the Shrike and ran for the nebula. Vadic gleefully ordered her crew to follow them and she cackles maniacally as the episode ends.

Thank you. CTV Sci Fi reruns the ep on Monday and I can always rewatch it on-demand.

[greekmom]

4 hours ago, catsitter said:

I am glad to see on here that the bounty hunter's name is Vadic. I thought they were saying she was a Vedek which made no sense.

At this point she could be the love child of Winn and Dukat when he was dressed up as a Bajoran and fueled by the Pathwraiths and their "Vedic".  Her face was surgically altered to remove ANY Cardassian from her hence the scars.  You know the Cardassians hated Picard and tortured him.  LOL. I wouldn't put it past the writers.  If she starts with "Child". You know I'm right. 🤣

[Guest]

9 hours ago, benteen said:

What's helping is that this is the first time in three seasons I've felt that Patrick Stewart is consistently playing PICARD as opposed to feeling like Stewart is playing Stewart. His character thrives when he's in command of the situation like this.

Michael Dorn was only in the episode for thirty seconds and had one line but already has managed to slip back into the character again like he hadn't left it. Great return for the character.

Have been a fan of Ed Speelers for a while and like Jack. Shaw actor is doing great work and he's not wrong about what Picard and Riker have selfishly gotten the Titan into. The Titan rescue was awesome. Enjoy Amanda Plummer and I imagine we'll get mire nuisance as the show goes on. Picard and Crusher chemistry is still there, even when they are silent.

Really looking forward to next week's episode. 

This is how I am feeling. Yeah, there are some really big plot holes and none of it really makes sense but I am enjoying these actors so completely embodying these characters again I don’t care. I’m also 100% expecting there to be a lot more to the backstory of Jack that I’m okay with giving them time to explain it.

Getting to see Worf actually kick ass with a bat'leth justified the entire season for me. I love Next Gen for what it was but it kept any character not named Picard, Riker or Data in a rigid framework. Here it seems they are getting to be more three dimensional and the actors seem to be really embracing. I am loving watching it. 

3 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

And... the language of the message last episode made it pretty clear Rafi's handler was Worf.

I guess I just be happy Rafi’s story was so completely boring me that I tuned them out. I couldn’t force myself to pay attention to what her handler was saying and was legitimately surprised. 

[aemom]

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

One thing I will say, though: assuming that Jack 2.0 is indeed JL's son, it's kind of an extra middle finger to JL to name JL's son after the best friend who JL has guilt over both getting killed and lusting for his wife. (On top of not telling JL or anyone of his existence, I mean.) Who knew that Bev was extra petty? 

What's interesting is that Jean is the French version of John, and Jack is a common nickname for people named John.

I'm having a hard time believing this whole thing that Beverly and Jean-Luc had a baby and she never told him. I'm really hoping for a different story when we learn the truth.

[SnarkShark]

4 hours ago, aemom said:

What's interesting is that Jean is the French version of John, and Jack is a common nickname for people named John.

I'm having a hard time believing this whole thing that Beverly and Jean-Luc had a baby and she never told him. I'm really hoping for a different story when we learn the truth.

I'd be willing to accept the idea that Beverly had Jack Sr.'s DNA in long term storage.  Simple enough.

But then explain the accent and the seeming age of Jackie Boy vs. the time period that we were initially told had passed since Baldy and the others last saw Beverly.  None of it makes any damn sense, short of some weird Holodeck schooling routine for his whole childhood (Moriarity?  We know he's coming) plus maybe accelerated growth, so a dude clearly biologically in his mid 30s is explained by a 20 year timeframe.    But okay, lets say Picard was being loose when he said "20 years"...

2379 was the last movie, right?  

2399 was Picard Season 1.  2401 was Season 2.

So how much further along is Season 3?  Probably the best predictor has to be based on the career of Commander Annika Hansen.  If Seven was brought in as a Commander, as unlikely as that seems, we still have to account for time for Picard and Janeway to talk her into it, some obligatory officer training at the Academy, and enough time as First Officer under Captain Crapola to get that fed up.  Another two years maybe?

So if it's 2403, that's what?  24 years after Picard last saw Beverly, assuming she took off almost immediately after the events of Nemesis?

So maybe that approximately 23 year old kid only unfortunately LOOKS about a dozen years older?  

Or... there's some complicated bulls@&t going on.

 

 

 

 

The actor is in his mid 30s by the way (and looks his age).

[Haleth]

Ugh.  Of all the cheesy cliches, I loath the long lost son trope.  Very disappointing.  I was already frustrated by the boring, irrelevant Raffi scenes (until Worf showed up and hopefully this will all make sense later) and now we have to deal with a sullen, irresponsible manchild and his guilt ridden father.  Blech.  I'm with Shaw; send them all to the Shrike.

So Worf is Raffi's handler.  Huh.

The just in time arrival of the Titan was pretty cool though.  Reminded me of that scene in BSG.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Haleth

[Noneofyourbusiness]

13 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

"Do the Math" Will?  The math doesn't work out.  Limey Jack is in his mid 30s.  Didn't they claim Beverly disappeared 20 years ago?

Yeah, but thirties playing twenties and twenties playing teens are nothing new. At this point, some audience members must have a skewed idea of what those ages look like.

[chaifan]

Someone posted this above, and I think it's worth repeating... there is a chance Beverly had Jack while she was on her hiatus during TNG, at Starfleet Medical.  That would put Jack at the right age. 

If so, here are the options:  a) Beverly & JL hooked up prior to her leaving, and she either left because she was pregnant with the Captain's child, or didn't know it until after she left; b) Beverly got pregnant from someone else while at Starfleet Medical; c) Beverly got herself pregnant (through whatever medical/IVF procedure) while at Starfleet Medical.  If it's (a), then they can justify not bringing the kid back to Enterprise because JL has previously commented about his problems separating personal life from Captain duties - what if he has to choose between child's life and the rest of the crew, etc.?  In this case, or in (b) or (c), they still have to justify Beverly wanting to return to Enterprise so badly she'd abandon her child for 10 years because of it.  And, in all cases, they'd have to justify never telling Wesley, or explain how Wesley kept that secret all this time. 

Onto other things... it bothers me a little that Worf killed everyone in the room.  That seemed a little extreme for the situation.  They were gangsters and generally bad people, but summary execution doesn't seem right.  Not when there are other options, like stun settings on phasers. 

 

[ajsnaves]

One of the features of a show like this is that the information has to trickle out. (Like Will getting up to pee every few hours.)  So I’m willing to wait for more details. And I’m open to different possibilities. But they better give some answers soon.  
 

I feel like this was the first time we saw the  Picard we all know and love from TNG, when he took command. That was the first time this series that he was really in his element. On the bridge of a Federation starship.  I hope we get more of that Jean Luc. 

[aemom]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Someone posted this above, and I think it's worth repeating... there is a chance Beverly had Jack while she was on her hiatus during TNG, at Starfleet Medical.  That would put Jack at the right age. 

If so, here are the options:  a) Beverly & JL hooked up prior to her leaving, and she either left because she was pregnant with the Captain's child, or didn't know it until after she left; b) Beverly got pregnant from someone else while at Starfleet Medical; c) Beverly got herself pregnant (through whatever medical/IVF procedure) while at Starfleet Medical.  If it's (a), then they can justify not bringing the kid back to Enterprise because JL has previously commented about his problems separating personal life from Captain duties - what if he has to choose between child's life and the rest of the crew, etc.?  In this case, or in (b) or (c), they still have to justify Beverly wanting to return to Enterprise so badly she'd abandon her child for 10 years because of it.  And, in all cases, they'd have to justify never telling Wesley, or explain how Wesley kept that secret all this time. 

Your theory is very creative and very plausible based on canon, but if that were actually the case, it would really piss me off. Beverly was always obsessed with Wesley and worrying about his well being, etc. that I just cannot fathom that she would leave a baby behind all these years because she was worried about how JL would take the news.

As for Jack's accent: Children pick up the accents of their peers, not their parents - and I've seen this first hand many times. So, if Jack went to school with children with British accents, that would explain his. If they try to hand wave it as anything else, then the show is not following science. 

[paigow]

17 minutes ago, aemom said:

As for Jack's accent: Children pick up the accents of their peers, not their parents - and I've seen this first hand many times. So, if Jack went to school with children with British accents, that would explain his. If they try to hand wave it as anything else, then the show is not following science. 

Jack is a con artist... He should know many accents... Unless he is bad at his job...

[aemom]

21 minutes ago, paigow said:

Jack is a con artist... He should know many accents... Unless he is bad at his job...

Good point, but they've also managed to hunt him down, so... the jury is out on that, I think 😀

[dwmarch]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Someone posted this above, and I think it's worth repeating... there is a chance Beverly had Jack while she was on her hiatus during TNG, at Starfleet Medical.

Based on some of the writing in previous seasons of this show, it would not surprise me all that much if they used Gates McFadden's IRL pregnancy during TNG to explain the kid away. She was visibly pregnant in season 4 but she was either dressed in a lab coat or strategically hidden behind equipment. Watch the producers turn around and say Dr. Crusher wasn't even trying to keep her pregnancy a secret from the crew but they missed it because they only ever came to her when they needed something. She had a baby right in front of them and raised it on the ship and no one could be bothered to notice! No wonder she left!

[Egg McMuffin]

Accents are genetic. Watch The Parent Trap, where two identical twins raised separately by American parents still developed the same British accent.

[ML89]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:55 PM, ofmd said:

I'm not even going to get into my personal shark jumping plot, Another Retconned Son aka Young Picard. Or the swiss cheese plot. But the writing is terrible. Cliched supervillain, cliched young dashing arrogant hero with father issues/ chip on shoulder, bad dialog... It seems so by-the-numbers to me.

I found myself bored by what was supposed to be intense drama/ action. The intrusive music underlining the dialog even during quieter moments didn't help, just as a steadycam doesn't make it more interesting. I had to force myself to watch until the end.

 

Yes on all counts. 

 

On 2/23/2023 at 3:55 PM, ofmd said:

Young Crusher is extremely annoying. Now I'm sure he'll be the lead of the spinoff, no matter who the captain is. (As if the title of the first episode wasn't enough.)

Bargain Basement Spike (he reminds me of James Marsters) instead of Dime Store Han Solo this year.

I have never seen an hour of dumber behavior and I’m an A-Team fan. Let’s sit here and discuss life, not get the hell out of here. Sure, turn the kid over and the villain will leave. Really, quote me some nonsense about having to disclose a power level. Hey, Riker, let’s walk Beverly to the bridge. I’m surprised she didn’t faint dramatically but they left that to Raffi, who went along on the “prove it” crap. I hope Worf picked up the emeralds or whatever they were. I can see why Raffi is no longer with her ex, although why she bothered with a secure channel when she’s announcing she’s Starfleet Intelligence in the middle of Not Bladerunner Bar is baffling. 

Captain Angel in Strange New Worlds has some serious competition for most annoying villain. But she’s supposed to be a comedy villain. I don’t know what that was. 
 

Also, could someone turn a damn light on?

 

 

[SnarkShark]

3 hours ago, ajsnaves said:

One of the features of a show like this is that the information has to trickle out. (Like Will getting up to pee every few hours.)  So I’m willing to wait for more details. And I’m open to different possibilities. But they better give some answers soon.  
 

I feel like this was the first time we saw the  Picard we all know and love from TNG, when he took command. That was the first time this series that he was really in his element. On the bridge of a Federation starship.  I hope we get more of that Jean Luc. 

The one who's being portrayed as a rebel, and man of action?

I get that the person accusing him of that could be biased or wrong, but the interplay with Riker supports that too.

The Picard series and it's writers seem like they've never understood Jean Luc-Picard, or at least only understood him through a refiltering of everything we already knew about him, perhaps based on the opinions of an actor who wasn't really satisfied that Picard was a supposed to be a thinker more than an impulsive doer.

3 hours ago, aemom said:

Your theory is very creative and very plausible based on canon, but if that were actually the case, it would really piss me off. Beverly was always obsessed with Wesley and worrying about his well being, etc. that I just cannot fathom that she would leave a baby behind all these years because she was worried about how JL would take the news.

As for Jack's accent: Children pick up the accents of their peers, not their parents - and I've seen this first hand many times. So, if Jack went to school with children with British accents, that would explain his. If they try to hand wave it as anything else, then the show is not following science. 

There's my "raised by Moriarity inside a Holodeck" theory.

[Lebanna]

20 minutes ago, SnarkShark said:

The one who's being portrayed as a rebel, and man of action?

I get that the person accusing him of that could be biased or wrong, but the interplay with Riker supports that too.

The Picard series and it's writers seem like they've never understood Jean Luc-Picard, or at least only understood him through a refiltering of everything we already knew about him, perhaps based on the opinions of an actor who wasn't really satisfied that Picard was a supposed to be a thinker more than an impulsive doer.

Well, Picard had his own ‘we are therefore going anyway’ moment in First Contact  and went fully Die Hard in ‘Starship Mine’. 

Plus in ‘Tapestry’ we see that he was a very hotheaded wild cadet. In that episode we also saw that confronting his death by actually dying early had given him the power to see through his fear and isolate what was important.

We probably saw him rebel pretty much as often as Kirk or Spock ever did. He decided his actions on their merits, not because he was ‘just following orders’. If the order was dumb or fearful, he would ignore it. Let alone his whole thing with the Borg.

He wasn’t naturally a rule taker, just because he was also sensible guy who liked archaeology, playing the flute and reading books.