S05.E13: New Pipes and Old Secrets

[Pallas]

Darlene has issues with Dan's plumbing work in her new house; Jackie tries to find a caregiver for Bev.

[Annber03]

Oh. That ending. 

I like Kerry (Carrie? Keri?). I'm glad she'll be sticking around. Hopefully Jackie will figure something out with the cost. Also liked seeing Mark involved in this storyline a bit, and getting to interact with Beverly a little. 

Also felt for Dan with his situation. I'm glad that turned out to be all it was, though, 'cause I was getting a little nervous for a time there as the episode went on.  I like how the others reassured him that he needn't worry because they're used to bad stuff happening :p. And Ben: "He's mean to me because he loves me." *To Darlene*  "Now I see where you get it." XD. 

 

[Snow Apple]

Why is Jackie saying "Bev" instead "mom?" 

[greekmom]

Jackie is married and Neville is a vet. He probably makes decent money. Which means whatever would be Jackie's pay can go towards Bev's care.

Dan's issue about having the kids around is more empty nest syndrome than anything IMHO.

What about Mary?  Isn't she still living part time with Dan? She's still in the opening credits.

[UYI]

I know Jackie never had a good relationship with her mother, and you could argue that she doesn't really owe her anything after how badly Bev has always treated her (and for that reason, I'm on her side for not wanting Bev to move in with her and Neville), but good for her at least finding someone who will take good care of her.

I, too, noticed Jackie called her "Bev" instead of "Mom". Maybe that was her way of finally distancing herself from her after so many years of abuse? It would've made more sense if she'd done it years before, but whatever. 

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Why is Jackie saying "Bev" instead "mom?" 

It beats "Sea Hag".  (What Jackie offered Fred as an alternative in the original series.) 

I think the writers just had everyone using Bev rather than Mom, Grandma, Great-Grandma and all her various titles for simplicity, given how many were talking about her. It was awkward.

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

What about Mary?  Isn't she still living part time with Dan?

Last we heard, she was temporarily going back and forth between Dan's and Geena's parents' house while D.J. was overseas visiting Geena, but presumably he's back by now so she's living at home and just hanging out there sometimes.

This episode had some lovely moments.  And some laughs.

Laughs:

- "Ptomaine tabernacle" (I love a good play on words)

- Dan's breakfast resulting in him being asked if his heart has said something that pissed him off.

- Bev accusing Mark of stealing Al's clothes, as "no one your age dresses like that"

- Old white man raves

- Dan having taught his kids to be self-sufficient -- except for that whole not holding down a job and having to move back home thing

- "He's mean to me because he loves me.  I see where you get it from."

Oh, my heart:

- With each generation removed from Bev's relentless passive-aggressive negativity, there was more willingness to help her.  To the point that while Harris and Mark initially backed off their "Sure, we'll help!" reactions when they realized Jackie wanted them to provide regular ongoing care, they wound up agreeing, and only balked when experience made them nervous they weren't equipped and would feel terrible if something bad happened on their watch

- Dan can't handle an empty nest.  He's gone through the motions of grumbling about the generations under his roof, but he misses it.

- Estelle Parsons nailed Bev's reveal of the extent of Al's abuse.  (Al's retcon was a problem in the original series, but that version of him existed far longer than what came before, so I freely accept it as canon.)  Roseanne and Jackie always blamed Bev - in Jackie's case, even more so than she did Al - for not saving them from the abuse, and to learn in this particular way she did initially try to protect them is quite realistic.  That was very well done.  

Bonus category:  Oh, fuck off, Jackie:

- Saying Bev never saved a dime and expected her kids to take care of her.  First of all, plenty of elderly parents found themselves in that position against their will and to their great distress, not because they're assholes.  But, here, specifically, Bev repeatedly bailed Jackie and Roseanne out financially.  She gave them the tens of thousands they needed to start the Lunchbox, and she held onto that asset to later be able to help when once again the entire Harris-Conner clan was in a pickle.  She deliberately planned to be able to leave something behind.  She has a great many faults, but being an intentional financial burden is not only not one of them, it's the opposite of the truth.

[nokat]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

It beats "Sea Hag".  (What Jackie offered Fred as an alternative in the original series.) 

I think the writers just had everyone using Bev rather than Mom, Grandma, Great-Grandma and all her various titles for simplicity, given how many were talking about her. It was awkward.

Hee at "Sea Hag." Yes, Bev is easier and would Jackie really call her Mom.

[nokat]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Oh, my heart:

Yes, each generation removed. My mother was nothing to us like she was to her grandkids. I can see Mark and Harris experiencing her differently, but then the reality of needing care happened.

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Estelle Parsons nailed Bev's reveal of the extent of Al's abuse.  (Al's retcon was a problem in the original series, but that version of him existed far longer than what came before, so I freely accept it as canon.)  Roseanne and Jackie always blamed Bev - in Jackie's case, even more so than she did Al - for not saving them from the abuse, and to learn in this particular way she did initially try to protect them is quite realistic.  That was very well done.  

That was indeed well done. "I don't want to talk about it" and the reveal of the broken arm was heartbreaking. Bev was a victim too and it's sad she continues the abuse.

[Snow Apple]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

 

Bonus category:  Oh, fuck off, Jackie:

- Saying Bev never saved a dime and expected her kids to take care of her.  First of all, plenty of elderly parents found themselves in that position against their will and to their great distress, not because they're assholes.  But, here, specifically, Bev repeatedly bailed Jackie and Roseanne out financially.  She gave them the tens of thousands they needed to start the Lunchbox, and she held onto that asset to later be able to help when once again the entire Harris-Conner clan was in a pickle.  She deliberately planned to be able to leave something behind.  She has a great many faults, but being an intentional financial burden is not only not one of them, it's the opposite of the truth.

That made me mad too. The entire family has a history of making bad financial decisions and then running to Bev for a handout. Didn't Jackie badger Bev into letting her have the Lunch Box when Bev could have rented it to a chain? I don't remember all the details. And didn't Bev plan her retirement by living in a senior community with medical help? What happened to that? I guess her current condition requires 24/7 assistance and not just staff checking in once it twice a day. I guess no matter how careful you plan, you can't predict everything. But don't say Bev never saved a dime. 

[Rocknrollzombie]

Watched the bev scenes from this episode through a site, and saw some things on Reddit that bev doesn’t deserve care because she was x,y and z. 
 

yes trauma is true but there is a point when you have to let go of that resentment and hate when it comes to an elderly parent. My paternal grandfather wasn’t a great dad to my dad (didn’t recognize him as his son at some point when my dad was younger, and didn’t raise my dad, my dad grew up with his grandparents) or some of my uncles.

But the last few years when my grandfather was alive he had Alzheimer’s, prostate cancer and some other things, but  my dad would go visit him, I would tag along, I would be the one begging my dad to take me to visit my grandpa. It gave my dad joy that I wanted to visit my grandpa. After he died, my dad asked god, (weather your religious or not)to take away the feeling of resentment. It made him feel better, he misses my grandpa. 

[SHD]

12 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Why is Jackie saying "Bev" instead "mom?" 

I didn’t really notice that. Was it when discussing Bev with the family or actually speaking TO Bev? If the latter, maybe it’s due to the dementia? She may always remember her name but sometimes doesn’t remember Jackie is her daughter, so addressing her as “Mom” might confuse or anger her?

[Snow Apple]

57 minutes ago, SHD said:

I didn’t really notice that. Was it when discussing Bev with the family or actually speaking TO Bev? If the latter, maybe it’s due to the dementia? She may always remember her name but sometimes doesn’t remember Jackie is her daughter, so addressing her as “Mom” might confuse or anger her?

It was while speaking to the family about Bev. I never noticed if she did this in previous episodes (at least not so many times) so it was jarring to me.

[iMonrey]

Quote

But, here, specifically, Bev repeatedly bailed Jackie and Roseanne out financially.  She gave them the tens of thousands they needed to start the Lunchbox, and she held onto that asset to later be able to help when once again the entire Harris-Conner clan was in a pickle.  She deliberately planned to be able to leave something behind.  She has a great many faults, but being an intentional financial burden is not only not one of them, it's the opposite of the truth.

Quote

Didn't Jackie badger Bev into letting her have the Lunch Box when Bev could have rented it to a chain? I don't remember all the details. And didn't Bev plan her retirement by living in a senior community with medical help? What happened to that?

Yeah, this was another reboot retcon. It was discovered that Bev still owned the Lunchbox building long after the restaurant closed down. And Darlene had Bev's power of attorney so Jackie and Becky were nagging her to let them have it. In the original series, Roseanne, Jackie, Nancy and Bev all owned equal shares of the restaurant - which presumably included ownership of the property. And Bev eventually sold her share to Leon. 

And yes, Bev did move into a seniors community in the original series. They've never explained why she left.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

And yes, Bev did move into a seniors community in the original series. They've never explained why she left.

Didn't she get kicked out? I have some vague memory of something like that. And she also gave Jackie the money for the down payment on her house.

[Irate Panda]

Bev has given substantial money to her kids, and I think to her grandkids, and great-grandkids, so acting like Bev was just never saving was ridiculous.  She would have had money if not for her deadbeat family. It seems like Jackie and Roseanne since she was older would have brought up Bev and them being at nana Mary’s. Also, didn’t Jackie say Bev was gone for months? I don’t think Jackie is obligated to pay for Bev’s care because Bev was still shitty to her separate from her husband, but imo Jackie did at least owe her the amount Bev gave her for the lunchbox and the down payment on her home, since she did somewhat care what happened to Bev. If only for the fact, Bev seemed to save money, and used most of it to bail out her bum family. Dan and the rest of them could chip in too but they’re searching the couch cushions for change.

 

[StaceyNotStacie]

10 hours ago, nokat said:

Yes, each generation removed. My mother was nothing to us like she was to her grandkids. I can see Mark and Harris experiencing her differently, but then the reality of needing care happened.

I don’t know about Harris, but didn’t mark regularly write to her when she was out of town?

[chitowngirl]

I know Bev needs more care than the average lay person can give, but why can’t Darlene help out??.

[babyhouseman]

Bev was kicked out of the home for STD's. I googled to confirm because I thought I might have dreamed it. 

[peacheslatour]

13 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

Bev was kicked out of the home for STD's. I googled to confirm because I thought I might have dreamed it. 

That was it. I knew I had heard that. Thanks for your Google-fu.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Bev was kicked out of the home for STD's. I googled to confirm because I thought I might have dreamed it. 

Was that in the OG series though? Or in the reboot?

The reboot really plays fast and loose with what's canon and what's not. They have never mentioned the house Jackie bought or what became of it. (And don't even get me started on Andy.)

[babyhouseman]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Was that in the OG series though? Or in the reboot?

The reboot really plays fast and loose with what's canon and what's not. They have never mentioned the house Jackie bought or what became of it. (And don't even get me started on Andy.)

I believe it was the reboot.

[peacheslatour]

12 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

I believe it was the reboot.

IIRC, it was when Roseanne was still on and it was what passed for a joke.

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Was that in the OG series though? Or in the reboot?

In the revival season of Roseanne.  When it happened, Becky initially invited Bev into her apartment (back when Becky had a job and no kid, so had her own place), but got grossed out when she came home in the afternoon to find old people having sex, so Bev wound up at Jackie's. 

The home Bev was living in at that time was described rather differently than the one she'd bought earlier in the original series, so the writers seem to have ignored that she bought into a place that covered an independent living apartment AND a later move to the facility's care ward when it became necessary* and wrote her into a general retirement community setting instead.

*Once again, Bev actively planned in order not to be a financial burden (and to have something to pass on), further illustrating how wrong this "She never saved a dime and just expected us to take care of her" narrative is bullshit.  Bev never even tried to change, but she did know, even if she'd rarely admit it, she hadn't been a good mom.  Money is the one and only way she tried to make up for some of that.

[mythoughtis]

This episode played the cost of senior care for laughs.   annoyed t$&@“ out of me. 
Never saved a dime comments- Bev’s retirement community isn’t cheap and Jackie hasn’t mentioned that she has to pay a dime up until now. Many senior citizens are spending their life savings to live in assisted living or memory care facilities. And, yes, some need private caregivers on top of that.  By the time they need an actual skilled nursing home, they are flat broke - and that’s the level that Medicaid ends up paying for.  It won’t usually pay due assisted living or memory care. 
Darlene isn’t working and she’s Bev’s POA- why isn’t she involved in these decisions?  Jackie doesn’t have the authority to spend a dime of Bev’s  money. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 2/8/2023 at 9:05 PM, greekmom said:

Jackie is married and Neville is a vet. He probably makes decent money. Which means whatever would be Jackie's pay can go towards Bev's care.

Dan's issue about having the kids around is more empty nest syndrome than anything IMHO.

What about Mary?  Isn't she still living part time with Dan? She's still in the opening credits.

I'm sure Neville makes a good living but I don't know that Jackie's business is turning a profit. That care is super expensive! And I'm sure Jackie needs to think about her own savings, too, even if her husband pays all or most of the bills (which he may not be - couples all handle finances differently). 

I have forgotten about Mary and DJ, even though Mary is still in the opening credits. 

[Pi237]

They needed to hire older writers who were familiar with the original run because these changes are awful. Would it really have been so hard to write funny, poignant storylines that were accurate? Of course, I’d have acted like anything including the lottery win never happened, but changing Bev into a complete monster is such Lazy writing. Part of the authenticity of original Roseanne was accepting how family members could be flawed, yet there’s still love and good sides to them, too. Everyone’s so one dimensional on the Connors and it really wasn’t necessary after they spent years fleshing out whole multi-dimensional human beings. Drives me nuts. They’d have been better off creating a separate series with new actors because there’s nothing here that’s from the original anymore. Plus, I want to kidnap Ben and Mark and put them on a better show. 

[MrsEVH]

15 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I have forgotten about Mary and DJ, even though Mary is still in the opening credits. 

I'm guessing DJ won't ever be mentioned again just like they never mention what happen to Jerry and Andy. 

[Mittengirl]

I just don’t think this show is the place to handle a storyline like Bev’s.  The characters are too lacking in depth and nuance and the writers don’t seem to have the interest/knowledge to deal with it realistically.  Maybe I am just too close to the situation to find any humor in the realities of trying to find healthcare that is safe and won’t bankrupt people.  I am sure I am not the only one here who is going through the same issues.
 

Don’t even get me started on Jackie bitching about Bev’s financial situation - what are her plans for elder care for herself? What if she and Neville get divorced or he becomes ill and unable to work or some other unexpected financial disaster hits?  Does she think she will be in any better position than her mother?  I can’t imagine she has any significant savings to speak of or decent health insurance, never mind long-term-care insurance. 

I don’t mind a dash of reality in my sitcoms, but mostly I just want them to make me laugh.   The real world & my real problems are not what I want to see in (what is supposed to be) a tv comedy.

[One Tough Cookie]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:00 PM, babyhouseman said:

Bev was kicked out of the home for STD's. I googled to confirm because I thought I might have dreamed it. 

I almost hurled-I don't remember that story line AT.ALL.

[kassa]

Well, she WAS craftmatic adjustable Bev!

[QQQQ]

On 2/11/2023 at 1:16 PM, Mittengirl said:

I just don’t think this show is the place to handle a storyline like Bev's

Or opioid addiction, loans/mortgages, college admission/tuition/scholarships, taxes, employment...