S01.E01: Dead Man's Hand

[shantown]

Quote

When a close friend of hers meets an untimely end, Charlie Cale, a casino cocktail waitress with an uncanny knack for identifying lies, is determined to unravel these mysterious events -- even if it endangers her own life.

Streams January 26 on Peacock

[AnimeMania]

Adrien Brody as Sterling Frost Jr.,  head of a Las Vegas Frost Casino
Benjamin Bratt as Cliff Legrand, casino head of security 

Dascha Polanco as Natalie,  Casino Maid
Rebecca Ross Bailey as Casino Waitress
Elijah George as High Roller
Carol Jefferson as News Reporter
Michael Reagan as Jerry

[shapeshifter]

The positive:

• The writing and plotting were creative and tight. 
  For example, early on the direction of the plot was nicely laid out with this exchange:
  • [CHARLIE CALE] I've been rich.
  • [STERLING FROST] How was it.
  • [CHARLIE] Easier than being broke. Harder than doing just fine.
  • [STERLING] With due respect, you've had money, but you've never been rich.
• The casting and acting were stellar.
• Production quality and editing were seemingly flawless.
• The good guys were likeable; the bad guys were odious without being so repulsive that it didn't make sense that they got as far as they did. 

My complaints:

• Over an hour running time for each episode with 4 released on the first day for the first week is asking for a lot of love from an audience these days when there's tons of quality content available, with more coming constantly. 
  Oops! There are 2 weeks between the release of the first 4 episodes and the release of the 5th.
• If there was any comedy, I missed it. 
  Another tiny oops!
  When Charlie emails the image of kiddie porn on the rich guy's laptop to the casino owner and the FBI, she also sends it to Oprah.

Edited January 28, 2023 by shapeshifter

[tljgator]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

• If there was any comedy, I missed it. 

I think the hyped-up on coffee segment and the walking to the corner store in PJs were supposed to be the "lighter" moments.

I agree with the critics, I thought this was a really solid start (and the Columbo comparisons were apt). I only watched one for now -- you're right, shapeshifter, 4 is a strange choice these days -- do they expect me to binge a new case-of-the-week show? Are they thinking I'm down for one a day from today through the weekend? *shrugs* Glad to have something new that doesn't stress me out with freaky zombies. *g*

[Gloriosa]

I couldn't tell what was on Caine's screen that started the whole fiasco.  Can anyone tell me what that was all about?

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, Gloriosa said:

I couldn't tell what was on Caine's screen that started the whole fiasco.  Can anyone tell me what that was all about?

They deliberately chose not to show it, which I would have appreciated even if it was "legal" to show, but the dialog implied it was kiddie porn, perhaps even live with Caine, but I'm not sure about that.

[Irlandesa]

They definitely implied it was kiddie porn.  They reference a kiddie porn ring and they didn't show the picture that was so offensive even though she showed all the dick pics on her friend's phone. 

It was a very good pilot and I like how she got the guy who ordered the hit.

[Snazzy Daisy]

 

[gesundheit]

23 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

 

• Over an hour running time for each episode with 4 released on the first day for the first week is asking for a lot of love from an audience these days when there's tons of quality content available, with more coming constantly. 

The 4th episode is more like 45 minutes (the first four get progressively shorter), so I'm glad to see they seemingly got the freedom to make each episode as long or short as it needs to be for the story. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by gesundheit

[PrincessPurrsALot]

I found it interesting.  The acting is great; they got some really good people for the cast, especially if they are only in one episode.  I did get confused with the timeline jump back for a bit. I like that it made sense as to how she figured it out without it being something ridiculous and her saying that she did not have enough to take it to the police. 

I would say it was photos or video of child sexual assault.  That was referenced earlier in the show, and they chose not to show it on screen for which I am grateful.

The slew of dick pics interspersed with the other photos did make me laugh; it would be pretty odd seeing 4-5 regular photos and then dick, a few more nice photos, dick, and so on. 

 

[justmehere]

Mixed feelings mainly because of the topic. The fact that Sterling could be so incredibly selfish and inhumane as to kill two people (have them killed) so he could carry out his Daddy-doesn't-love-me plan, rather than report something as unspeakable as sexually abusing/assaulting children... well, I wasn't sorry to see him go over that balcony. (Adrian Brody was good, but damn.) And who is his assistant/assassin to so calmly take that kill order? Cold, cold people. I am aware of things in the real world. But I can only take so much in entertainment.

I avoid a lot of shows because of the apparent need to make the crimes as horrible as possible. I'm sure I've missed some great ones as far as writing/acting/production, but there it is, and they started this off in the worst way. I hope the future episodes are -- it seems strange to call murder palatable, but just less horrid circumstances, I guess. (And I loved Mr. Robot despite its darkness.)

All that said, it was well done, I love Natasha Lyonne, and so I'll keep watching for now. 

[shapeshifter]

I totally agree with all of your post, @justmehere, so it’s not just you.😉

But I was okay with that being a plot point because we never saw the abuse——just the horrified looks of those who saw the image. We never even heard sounds of the abuse. We were never in the room or even the next room while it was happening.
But that may be an odd line in the sand for me to draw.🤷🏻‍♀️

But we also saw Charlie email the image of the laptop to the FBI. So, presumably the odious whale guy did not get away with it, right?
That also coincided with the one real moment of comic relief:  Charlie sends the screenshot to Oprah too.

[akg]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But we also saw Charlie email the image of the laptop to the FBI. So, presumably the odious whale guy did not get away with it, right?
That also coincided with the one real moment of comic relief:  Charlie sends the screenshot to Oprah too.

I loved that the emails were all x@x.com. Did she look them up? Was she just assuming? Was it a tv thing? Poor Oprah (or her assistant). I hope Charlie's email had a warning in it.

[possibilities]

I loved that the casino guys didn't know about the cloud, so they thought they had deleted the photo and couldn't imagine how she got it. It was just a tiny bit of dumbassery that to me was comedic.

The guy leaving his laptop open where it could be seen was actually the thing I had the hardest time suspending disbelief about, but I am over it, because I thought this was overall a really good effort.

I like to binge things. So I like when they release more than one episode at a time.

[akg]

4 minutes ago, possibilities said:

The guy leaving his laptop open where it could be seen was actually the thing I had the hardest time suspending disbelief about, but I am over it, because I thought this was overall a really good effort.

He'd just taken a quick bathroom break, right? I can totally see him as the kind of guy who who doesn't see the people who do work around him. His room just gets cleaned while he's out, like magic. Why would he need to worry?

[SnarkShark]

That was really tight.  Well done.

7 hours ago, akg said:

He'd just taken a quick bathroom break, right? I can totally see him as the kind of guy who who doesn't see the people who do work around him. His room just gets cleaned while he's out, like magic. Why would he need to worry?

I think he was showering.  Slightly longer process.  But still?  I get that he wouldn't consider housekeeping.

[SnarkShark]

19 hours ago, justmehere said:

All that said, it was well done, I love Natasha Lyonne, and so I'll keep watching for now. 

Natasha Lyonne is such a perfect combo of scuzzy and wonderful.   So entertaining.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Maybe he forgot to put the Do not Disturb sign on?

[SnarkShark]

On 1/26/2023 at 6:26 PM, tljgator said:

I think the hyped-up on coffee segment and the walking to the corner store in PJs were supposed to be the "lighter" moments.

I agree with the critics, I thought this was a really solid start (and the Columbo comparisons were apt). I only watched one for now -- you're right, shapeshifter, 4 is a strange choice these days -- do they expect me to binge a new case-of-the-week show? Are they thinking I'm down for one a day from today through the weekend? *shrugs* Glad to have something new that doesn't stress me out with freaky zombies. *g*

In the Casino, when she sits down at the bar after showing the iPad to the boss, we hear what sounds like a slot machine playing "This Old Man", Columbo's unofficial theme song.

[pasdetrois]

I liked the first episode very much. The show has thought and polish.  I could not get into Russian Doll, but maybe I'll try it again.

We laugh because Natasha's signature is always big, dry, frizzy hair. I'm glad she is thriving.

I've noticed Dascha Polanco (Natalie who got killed) for years. She pops up now and then on my TV screen.

The ability to detect lying is an interesting twist and a challenge for the scriptwriters to stay on top off. It would certainly complicate one's day.

If they'd shown one sight or sound of kiddie porn, I'd be outta here. I refuse to watch that kind of thing because they do it to maximize ratings. I'm not crazy about women being tortured either.

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by pasdetrois

[peachmangosteen]

I didn't like this as much as I thought/hoped I would. I just found it kind of boring tbh. And far too long. I'm definitely going to give it more episodes though because I love Natasha Lyonne. I'm hoping the other cases are better than this one and that there's way more humor if the other eps.

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm hoping the other cases are better than this one and that there's way more humor if the other eps.

I've seen the first 3, and, no, not more humor.
Very much intended as a new version of Columbo, with maybe even fewer witticisms.

[Milburn Stone]

Even the opening titles were Columbo-ish! (Similar font, yellow, overlaid on opening scenes, pacing, etc.)

Loved it.

[akg]

Once Adrien Brody realized Charlie was investigating the murder of her friend, I was very impressed how careful he was about not lying to her. Cliff didn't seem to be as thoughtful about what he said, which fits.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I didn't like this as much as I thought/hoped I would. I just found it kind of boring tbh. And far too long. I'm definitely going to give it more episodes though because I love Natasha Lyonne. I'm hoping the other cases are better than this one and that there's way more humor if the other eps.

I didn't find a lot of humor in the first 2 episodes, a little in episode 3, and tons of absurd humor in episode 4. This episode is all setup for what comes next.

[possibilities]

The humor there is, I think, is very subtle. Less witticisms than passing moments. It's not a comedy, but I would call it way less dour than most murder shows.

[Snorfbat]

Everyone's saying that this show is like Columbo, but it reminds me more of The Incredible Hulk (1977-1982).

Superpowered individual on the run, pursued from town to town and trying to do good along the way.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Never mind, I think I am discussing the wrong episode.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

The humor there is, I think, is very subtle. Less witticisms than passing moments. It's not a comedy, but I would call it way less dour than most murder shows.

I'd say it's more whimsical and quirky than laugh out loud funny. 

[SnarkShark]

33 minutes ago, Snorfbat said:

Everyone's saying that this show is like Columbo, but it reminds me more of The Incredible Hulk (1977-1982).

Superpowered individual on the run, pursued from town to town and trying to do good along the way.

The Columbo link is really only the HowTheyGotCaught structure, rather than a Whodunnit.  Plus a few deliberate easter eggs like the credit fonts, some of the filming style, and the "This Old Man" thing already pointed out.

I suppose you could also include the New York accent of the protagonist.  

Certainly there are big differences in the position of authority of the two protagonists, which sets up a totally different dynamic.  Which buys into this character being a wandering fugitive, like David Banner.  So yeah.  The Incredible Hulk too.   Or Highway To Heaven.  Or many other similar shows.

[PurpleTentacle]

I love Natasha Lyonne so I wanted to love this, but the first episode certainly didn't do it for me.

It was too slow and for a (reverse) murder mystery had too many logical flaws.

For example, if you can place cameras in the room, what do you need Charlie for? You seriously can't get an angle on the cards?

Why did Charlie come back to the Casino to gloat? Was it really that important to her to see the guy get his comeuppance, to trade her life for it? Because she had no way out of there other than getting murdered. She was lucky that the guy killed himself and that bought her a little time. She had already burned him in the gambler community. There was absolutely no reason to come back. She should have skipped town the second she sent out the recording of the conversation. Maybe that would have even given her a bit of plausible deniability. The pedo whale is probably not going to send the recording around. He is just going to tell people that the casino was trying to cheat him. Maybe it never comes back to her and she can live a life not on the run. Granted, the chances for that aren't great, but they are a hell of a lot better than when she tells the casino security chief, who murdered her friend, that it was her, actually! Because now daddy knows for sure.

Edit: Oh this was written by Rian Johnson? Well that explains a lot. The murder Mystery in Glass Onion was even weaker than the one here.

Edited January 30, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[PurpleTentacle]

On 1/28/2023 at 6:57 PM, possibilities said:

I loved that the casino guys didn't know about the cloud, so they thought they had deleted the photo and couldn't imagine how she got it. It was just a tiny bit of dumbassery that to me was comedic.

But on the other hand, Charlie smashing her phones screen at the end of the episode. Yeah that's going to do anything to the GPS chip, SIM card or battery inside. Seems like everybody is completely incompetent when it comes to technology in this show.

10 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I liked the first episode very much. The show has thought and polish.  I could not get into Russian Doll, but maybe I'll try it again.

Very big recommendation. Especially season 1. Season 2 is a bit meh in parts, but still great acting.

4 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

I suppose you could also include the New York accent of the protagonist.  

I think that's just Lyonne not wanting to change accents.

[wanderingstar]

I laughed at the Burn Notice mention.

Natasha Lyonne is great in this.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 1/26/2023 at 11:41 AM, shapeshifter said:

When Charlie emails the image of kiddie porn on the rich guy's laptop to the casino owner and the FBI, she also sends it to Oprah.

She emailed it to the sheriff using the contact info on his business card (saying "Trusting you to do your job.")

On 1/28/2023 at 11:28 AM, akg said:

I loved that the emails were all x@x.com. Did she look them up? Was she just assuming? Was it a tv thing? Poor Oprah (or her assistant). I hope Charlie's email had a warning in it.

She includedFBI@FBI.gov, CIA@CIA.gov, and oprah@oprah.com (I think she guessed on those.)

I figured that the bad guys didn't keep the tablet because it would have tipped Charlie off that they weren't going to turn Caine in.  However, HOW did Charlie get her phone back?  Benjamin Bratt clearly had it in Sterling's office, and it looked like he was still holding it when they all ran into Caine's deserted room.   He didn't put it down for her to grab, and he certainly didn't give it back to her, so how did she have it in the diner?

Also, he's a pretty lousy shot when he's not shooting someone in the head at close range.

[possibilities]

I thought she bought a new phone and downloaded the back up from the cloud.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

17 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I thought she bought a new phone and downloaded the back up from the cloud.

I thought she stumbled into the diner bleeding from her wound, with no side trip to a place that sold phones.

At any rate, it was certainly unclear.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by ItCouldBeWorse

[possibilities]

She said she'd been traveling for a week, though. I noticed that, because I was so surprised by it, and didn't understand how she was bleeding for a week and not in worse shape.

It's true they didn't say how she got the phone, but she seemed pretty phone savvy, which served her well in the previous episode.

[Black Knight]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:10 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

For example, if you can place cameras in the room, what do you need Charlie for? You seriously can't get an angle on the cards?

No, that wouldn't work. Serious poker players generally keep their cards face down and only tilt the corners up briefly to peek at them. You'd need a camera angle pretty much level with the table, and those angles would typically be blocked by players' bodies. There would be issues with camera resolution, too. If you look up videos of televised poker tournaments, you'll see how the networks have to do it: Tables with railings the players rest their arms on, that have pinhole cameras built into them. Players keep their cards face down a couple of inches away from the cameras, so that when they do tilt the corners up quickly, the cameras can catch it.

[Anela]

I'm watching for Natasha. I couldn't get into the movie Knives Out, so I wasn't sure if I would like this. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, Anela said:

I'm watching for Natasha. I couldn't get into the movie Knives Out, so I wasn't sure if I would like this. 

You know, the hype for Knives Out absolutely drove me insane.  That rubbed off on the movie for me.  But I tried it again the other day after 4 years, and I really like it now.  It's just so hard for me to like or understand the hype of something when I feel people are foaming at the mouth about it.  

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

She said she'd been traveling for a week, though. I noticed that, because I was so surprised by it, and didn't understand how she was bleeding for a week and not in worse shape.

It's true they didn't say how she got the phone, but she seemed pretty phone savvy, which served her well in the previous episode.

There is no previous episode; we're discussing the 1st episode. She said she had been traveling for a week in the 2nd episode.

At the end of this, the first episode, she escaped through a casino window after being shot. She went to a diner, still wearing the clothes she had been wearing when she was shot. And she inexplicably still had her phone, which was receiving lots of notifications about Sterling Jr.'s death.

After Sterling Sr, called and threatened her, still the same day, she smashed the phone and tossed it away. 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by ItCouldBeWorse

[RedbirdNelly]

we really enjoyed this but were puzzled how she got her phone back---would have been better if B Bratt had handed it back after confirming she wasn't recording

[Colorado David]

Entertaining if not a bit light, I was expecting something darker. Not getting the Columbo vibe, as he seemed more light and comical than Charlie. 

I did like the pulp fiction cameo. I will give it more episodes to see where it goes. 

[Toothbrush]

On 1/30/2023 at 10:04 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

I laughed at the Burn Notice mention.

Natasha Lyonne is great in this.

Jeffrey Donovan who played Michael Weston on Burn Notice is now a detective on the Law & Order reboot, previously starring Benjamin Bratt. Not sure if that was some sort of inside joke? 
Hubby & I both noticed the Columbo-like credits right away, and then how the general set up was sort of similar. We just started watching and are liking it so far. Still unsure of how I’ll like the case/episode format while Charlie’s on the run. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Toothbrush said:

...noticed the Columbo-like credits right away, and then how the general set up was sort of similar....
Still unsure of how I’ll like the case/episode format while Charlie’s on the run. 

Charlie "on the run" is probably the biggest difference from Columbo. 
I watched a couple of Columbo episodes/movies this weekend that were 8+ rated by IMDb, and found myself thinking Columbo was acting like Charlie, heh.

[Toothbrush]

17 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Charlie "on the run" is probably the biggest difference from Columbo. 
I watched a couple of Columbo episodes/movies this weekend that were 8+ rated by IMDb, and found myself thinking Columbo was acting like Charlie, heh.

Not being a whodunnit and Charlie figuring out everything behind the scenes then explaining all to the murderer. 

[KittyQ]

On 1/28/2023 at 9:57 AM, possibilities said:

The guy leaving his laptop open where it could be seen was actually the thing I had the hardest time suspending disbelief about, but I am over it, because I thought this was overall a really good effort.

It does seem unlikely, but some people a) are too "above it all" to worry about the cleaning people or b) haven't had security lectures ad nauseum reminding them to lock their screens if they aren't sitting right in front of them (as I was at my job).