Gymnastics

[choclatechip45]

2 hours ago, filmfan2480 said:

I just realized, no Brandon Briones as an alternate (there are 5, yes?) for the Mens team, yet he finished 5th at Trials.  Odd???

They named him as an alternate. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

Watching the 2013 world's women's AA (called Best of Biles because marketing- they are covering worlds through 2018, which Biles, being the GOAT that she is <3, won each time).  The announcer keeps saying See-mone.  Have I been pronouncing it wrong all these years?  I thought it was Sih-mone. 

It was great to see so many other international gymnastics from Italy, Hungary, Japan etc.  One Chinese girl- Jao Jinnan did a somersaulting thing on the high bars (something called a Gaylord after some male gymnast) and it was incredible.  It looks impossible, so I'm not surprised I haven't seen it before.  Or haven't seen it in any other competition since.

 

[emmawoodhouse]

Mitch Gaylord was a hottie! Not a bad gymnast, either. 😁

[Ceindreadh]

19 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

 

It was great to see so many other international gymnastics from Italy, Hungary, Japan etc.  One Chinese girl- Jao Jinnan did a somersaulting thing on the high bars (something called a Gaylord after some male gymnast) and it was incredible.  It looks impossible, so I'm not surprised I haven't seen it before.  Or haven't seen it in any other competition since.

 

In Women's gymnastics it's called a Mo Salto after Mo Huilan.  IIRC, a few Chinese gymnasts used to do it in the late 90s, but it fell out of favour when they changed the code of points, because it was difficult move to connect to or from and these days they're all about using connections to increase their Difficulty (D) score.

[filmfan2480]

Maybe someone knows this answer.  Why do some male gymnasts shave their armpits and others don't?  I see that many male gymnasts from Europe and Asia tend to.  And we see most male swimmers/divers shave their armpits.

Most American male gymnasts don't seem to go with that trend, but some do ... like Brody Malone (US Champ).  His are shaven clean.  Anyone know why this is done by some and not by others?

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, filmfan2480 said:

Maybe someone knows this answer.  Why do some male gymnasts shave their armpits and others don't?  I see that many male gymnasts from Europe and Asia tend to.  And we see most male swimmers/divers shave their armpits.

Most American male gymnasts don't seem to go with that trend, but some do ... like Brody Malone (US Champ).  His are shaven clean.  Anyone know why this is done by some and not by others?

Aesthetics and/or personal preference. Some people find armpit hair (and body hair in general) gross on men, and some people don't.

[andromeda331]

Team Italy | 2021 Tokyo Olympics | - YouTube

Team China | 2021 Tokyo Olympics | - YouTube

2021 Tokyo Olympics | Team France - YouTube

2021 Tokyo Olympics | Team Canada - YouTube

2021 Tokyo Olympics | Team GERMANY - YouTube

2021 Tokyo Olympics | Team Great Britain - YouTube

2021 Tokyo Olympics | Team Japan - YouTube

on Youtube there's Gymfan channel which has videos on 7 teams going to Toyko so far in case anyone is interested. 

 

[peachmangosteen]

Does anyone know if there are going to be more episodes of the Simone Vs. Herself show on FacebookWatch and if so when they’re supposed to be airing?

[Conotocarious]

There’s going to be seven total (so three more) and they air every Tuesday at 12 noon EST.

[choclatechip45]

For anyone interested the selection reports are out 

men https://usagym.org/PDFs/Pressbox/Selection Procedures/m_21olympic_selectionreport.pdf

women-https://usagym.org/PDFs/Pressbox/Selection Procedures/w_21olympic_selectionreport.pdf

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

There’s going to be seven total (so three more) and they air every Tuesday at 12 noon EST.

Thank you. For some reason I can't find the 4th episode. I find this FacebookWatch thing completely impossible to navigate lol.

[Conotocarious]

30 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Thank you. For some reason I can't find the 4th episode. I find this FacebookWatch thing completely impossible to navigate lol.

You can also go to Simone’s Instagram. I believes she links to each episode as they come out.

[andromeda331]

Team Russia | 2021 Tokyo Olympics | - YouTube

 

[Quilt Fairy]

I really enjoyed watching the World Championships from 2013, 2014, etc., before Simone Biles was the dominant force she is today.  There were some beautiful, artistic routines from athletes all around the world, and they were much more to my taste than what I've seen lately.  I guess this matches when changes were made in the Code of Points?

Also, Bart Conner and Amanda Borden are much better color commentators than any team that NBC has come up with the last few years. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

Watching 2016 team final right now.  Because it can never be said enough:  Shut up Al.

[Lady Whistleup]

41 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Watching 2016 team final right now.  Because it can never be said enough:  Shut up Al.

I still have no idea why 2016 was "hate on Gabby" time. Looking back Gabby's programs had a nice mix of acrobatics and aesthetic lines. She was a good bar worker. It was as if Simone didn't really like Gabby so everyone had to dislike Gabby.

[choclatechip45]

38 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I still have no idea why 2016 was "hate on Gabby" time. Looking back Gabby's programs had a nice mix of acrobatics and aesthetic lines. She was a good bar worker. It was as if Simone didn't really like Gabby so everyone had to dislike Gabby.

There was a lot of coaching drama with Gabby she fired her coach right before Olympic Trials as in hours. I've always like Gabby and don't feel she got enough credit with her comeback. 

[filmfan2480]

6 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

For anyone interested the selection reports are out 

men https://usagym.org/PDFs/Pressbox/Selection Procedures/m_21olympic_selectionreport.pdf

women-https://usagym.org/PDFs/Pressbox/Selection Procedures/w_21olympic_selectionreport.pdf

Fascinating!

Most interesting to me is that the Men's 4-person team did not come down to 4th place finisher Sam Mikulak (more solid that we thought) and someone else ....... but Shane Wiskus and - not 5th place finisher Brandon Briones - but Cameron Bock, who finished quite a ways down the results placement.  That is because Bock is so solid and needed, really, on PH, SR and HB (weaknesses for the USA).  Bock was soooo close.

Also, the Women's 4-person team came down to McCallum and Skinner.  They gave the individual spot to Skinner because of her medal potential on Vault.  And I'm kind of surprised that Leann Wong - with a great Vault and FX - was not in the conversation for the 4-person team.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by filmfan2480

[Conotocarious]

9 hours ago, filmfan2480 said:

Fascinating!

Most interesting to me is that the Men's 4-person team did not come down to 4th place finisher Sam Mikulak (more solid that we thought) and someone else ....... but Shane Wiskus and - not 5th place finisher Brandon Briones - but Cameron Bock, who finished quite a ways down the results placement.  That is because Bock is so solid and needed, really, on PH, SR and HB (weaknesses for the USA).  Bock was soooo close.

Also, the Women's 4-person team came down to McCallum and Skinner.  They gave the individual spot to Skinner because of her medal potential on Vault.  And I'm kind of surprised that Leann Wong - with a great Vault and FX - was not in the conversation for the 4-person team.

 

Leanne tends to crumble in pressure situations. Plus in the end, with her vaccination status, it’s good she wasn’t chosen.  

[KittenPokerCheater]

I don’t get the hate on Gabby either.  I’m annoyed that she only competed on one event, did Madison.  I understand the whole “pick the team that will win the gold” but it looked like the specialists were given the red-headed-stepchild-with-spots treatment. Martha was cold and I truly hope she gets her come-uppance.

I wonder how Gabby would have done if she had performed all the events.

Laurie Hernandez floor routine is still so much fun.

[carrier76]

Who is Martha?

[KittenPokerCheater]

Martha/Marta Karolyi.   The US high performance person who, in my opinion, turned a blind eye while Nassar abused all those young gymnasts.  

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I don’t get the hate on Gabby either.  I’m annoyed that she only competed on one event, did Madison.  I understand the whole “pick the team that will win the gold” but it looked like the specialists were given the red-headed-stepchild-with-spots treatment. Martha was cold and I truly hope she gets her come-uppance.

I wonder how Gabby would have done if she had performed all the events.

Laurie Hernandez floor routine is still so much fun.

Gabby competed on all four events in qualifications. They dropped  her score on vault or floor and tied with Aly on beam for the lowest score so I'm not sure whose score was dropped.. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by choclatechip45

[CeeBeeGee]

15 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I still have no idea why 2016 was "hate on Gabby" time. Looking back Gabby's programs had a nice mix of acrobatics and aesthetic lines. She was a good bar worker. It was as if Simone didn't really like Gabby so everyone had to dislike Gabby.

Simone didn't like Gabby? I've never heard that. Am I missing a story?

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Simone didn't like Gabby? I've never heard that. Am I missing a story?

There was a lot of chatter in twitterverse that Gabby wasn't that close to the rest of the team in Rio. Apparently she roomed alone, and was absent in some of the "gymnasts hang out in the Olympic village" photos.

[Jeddah]

4 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I don’t get the hate on Gabby either.  I’m annoyed that she only competed on one event, did Madison.  I understand the whole “pick the team that will win the gold” but it looked like the specialists were given the red-headed-stepchild-with-spots treatment. Martha was cold and I truly hope she gets her come-uppance.

I certainly don’t hate Gabby, but in 2016 I just preferred other gymnasts. I would have liked to see Ashton Locklear go as a bars specialists instead, but I’m biased because she’s from North Carolina. And I thought Laurie should have the chance to go for the all around in qualifications instead of Gabby. But Gabby was the reigning Olympic champion, and she deserved it. It was just personal preference for me.

After the Olympics she made a victim-blaming comment directed at Aly that was terrible. I doubt she would have said something like that to someone she was friends with. Simone said Gabby’s comment didn’t surprise her. So it does seem like the rest of the team didn’t get along with her.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Jeddah

[NUguy514]

3 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

4 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I wonder how Gabby would have done if she had performed all the events.

Gabby competed on all four events in qualifications. They dropped  her score on vault or floor and tied with Aly on beam for the lowest score so I'm not sure whose score was dropped.. 

As @choclatechip45 wrote, Gabby did compete on all four events in qualifications, and she finished third all-around, almost a point and a half ahead of fourth-place Rebecca Andrade.  So, I'd say she did very well; she was two-per-countried by Simone and Aly, who finished first and second, though.

[choclatechip45]

Honestly with what we know now about Nassar, who knows what Gabby was going through in 2016. 

[choclatechip45]

49 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I certainly don’t hate Gabby, but in 2016 I just preferred other gymnasts. I would have liked to see Ashton Locklear go as a bars specialists instead, but I’m biased because she’s from North Carolina. And I thought Laurie should have the chance to go for the all around in qualifications instead of Gabby. But Gabby was the reigning Olympic champion, and she deserved it. It was just personal preference for me.

After the Olympics she made a victim-blaming comment directed at Aly that was terrible. I doubt she would have said something like that to someone she was friends with. Simone said Gabby’s comment didn’t surprise her. So it does seem like the rest of the team didn’t get along with her.

Laurie was injured during the Olympics. There were rumors that she was going to be pulled, Maggie her coach denied it all. It has come out within the last year she was more injured than we knew. 

Ashton could only be used on one event so if anyone was injured the team would have been screwed since Madison isn't a strong all arounder.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Jeddah said:

After the Olympics she made a victim-blaming comment directed at Aly that was terrible. 

What was the comment?

[CeeBeeGee]

15 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

What was the comment?

It was something about (in response to the Nassar crap) "dressing in a provocative/sexual way incites the wrong crowd" (C&P-ed from Nassar's WP page) which is just so spectacularly offensive and awful. Understandably, she was heavily criticized for it--Gabby, you wear a leotard and you're saying crap like that? She quickly apologized profusely and I believe not long after revealed that she too had been abused.

[qtpye]

8 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

It was something about (in response to the Nassar crap) "dressing in a provocative/sexual way incites the wrong crowd" (C&P-ed from Nassar's WP page) which is just so spectacularly offensive and awful. Understandably, she was heavily criticized for it--Gabby, you wear a leotard and you're saying crap like that? She quickly apologized profusely and I believe not long after revealed that she too had been abused.

Did she not know...

The term gymnastics, derived from a Greek word meaning “to exercise naked,” applied in ancient Greece to all exercises practiced in the gymnasium, the place where male athletes did indeed exercise unclothed.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I beleve there was a reality show about Gabby at that time and iirc, her family is a piece of work, and I hope she is okay now that she has grown up and (hopefully) lives far away from them.

When watching the team final, it looked like the team were very supportive and happy with each other.  But, oh, some of the stress etched into their faces.  I didn't know Laurie was so injured.

[Lady Whistleup]

Simone does not follow Gabby on IG either, although Aly does. Just seems like those two (Simone and Gabby) didn't really vibe. 

I really liked Gabby's gymnastics. Her beam in particular had a great combo of acrobatic tricks and beautiful form. Her standing full is gorgeous.

 

[choclatechip45]

32 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I beleve there was a reality show about Gabby at that time and iirc, her family is a piece of work, and I hope she is okay now that she has grown up and (hopefully) lives far away from them.

When watching the team final, it looked like the team were very supportive and happy with each other.  But, oh, some of the stress etched into their faces.  I didn't know Laurie was so injured.

Douglas Family Gold! I follow Gabby on instagram most of the stuff she posts is sponsored so good for her for still making that money! I hope Gabby lives far away from her family too. 

Laurie had a torn ab muscle which sounds so painful I have no idea how she won silver on balance beam or competed at all.

Edited July 8, 2021 by choclatechip45

[CeeBeeGee]

37 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I beleve there was a reality show about Gabby at that time and iirc, her family is a piece of work, and I hope she is okay now that she has grown up and (hopefully) lives far away from them.

When watching the team final, it looked like the team were very supportive and happy with each other.  But, oh, some of the stress etched into their faces.  I didn't know Laurie was so injured.

Can you give me some details on Douglas Family Gold? What made you say her family is a "piece of work"? Because I didn't want to watch it (I have no idea why Marta didn't put the kibosh on that project immediately as it sounds like a huge distraction when you're, I don't know, training for the Olympics). And the thing is, her mother got a shitton of flak from certain gymnastics message boards who had posters who were essentially racist and transferred their dislike of Gabby to her mother. So I always hesitated to say anything negative--but I also got the feeling Gabby was essentially supporting her entire family. And yes, I know they supported her during her early training but it's inappropriate for someone so young--she was only 20 years even in Rio) to have a burden like that. When Gabby came back in 2015, I just had a different vibe from her--she didn't seem to have the same love for the sport. And I question if she really wanted to come back or if she didn't feel some kind of pressure.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I only watched a few bits here and there, but either on twop or here folks said that the family was treating her like a commodity.  That the gold medals she had weren't hers, but "theirs."

I know nothing of the particulars, but I find it distasteful for a family, or anyone else for that matter, who would, in essence, take away their child's victory and claim it for themselves. Yes any family of an elite athlete is involved, in their child's success, but it is their child's success.  I like Gabby a lot and I think she got a raw deal from the harassing comments that were made about her on social media in 2016.  

There is no hell deep enough for the likes of a predator like Larry Nassar.

Moving onwards- no audience at the olympics?  I wonder if/how that will affect the gymnasts.

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Can you give me some details on Douglas Family Gold? What made you say her family is a "piece of work"? Because I didn't want to watch it (I have no idea why Marta didn't put the kibosh on that project immediately as it sounds like a huge distraction when you're, I don't know, training for the Olympics). And the thing is, her mother got a shitton of flak from certain gymnastics message boards who had posters who were essentially racist and transferred their dislike of Gabby to her mother. So I always hesitated to say anything negative--but I also got the feeling Gabby was essentially supporting her entire family. And yes, I know they supported her during her early training but it's inappropriate for someone so young--she was only 20 years even in Rio) to have a burden like that. When Gabby came back in 2015, I just had a different vibe from her--she didn't seem to have the same love for the sport. And I question if she really wanted to come back or if she didn't feel some kind of pressure.

I watched the Douglas Family Gold and there were a few red flags 1) Most of the family was employed by Gabby 2) Natalie would refer it as a family business and 3) Natalie put a lot of pressure on Gabby perform to make money. 

[CeeBeeGee]

4 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I watched the Douglas Family Gold and there were a few red flags 1) Most of the family was employed by Gabby 2) Natalie would refer it as a family business and 3) Natalie put a lot of pressure on Gabby perform to make money. 

THAT IS SO NOT APPROPRIATE!!!!!!

She was a child. She achieved a great success in 2012 but she shouldn't have been required to keep doing this one thing at which she's really good just so the money train never stops. What if she wanted to go to college and learn a new discipline? What if she wanted to take a year off and travel? I get that she's really close with her family but boundaries have to be drawn. She grew up poor and I get that the mother probably went into debt for her training but once that had been hashed out, it's the mom's job to find a job and find something else to do and not live through her mother. Ditto the rest of the siblings. 

[Rootbeer]

12 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I watched the Douglas Family Gold and there were a few red flags 1) Most of the family was employed by Gabby 2) Natalie would refer it as a family business and 3) Natalie put a lot of pressure on Gabby perform to make money. 

That's how I remember it.  Gabby was essentially supporting the entire family, including able-bodied adults, who supposedly worked for her but seemingly had no training or skills in athletic management, personal training or any business that would have benefited her.  Most of them seemingly did virtually nothing for their check and they acted entitled like she owed them for having been born into the family.  And no matter what she did or how hard she tried, Gabby's mother was constantly demanding more, pushing her to work harder, earn more money and that she owed it to the family to earn enough for all of them to live in style.  In a way, they seemed to want her to feel guilty for having the talent and discipline that took her to the top.

Gabby's family did have it tough when she was growing up.  Her parents divorced when she was young, her father wasn't around much and didn't pay regular support.  Her mom virtually raised 4 kids on her own and ended up filing for bankruptcy just prior to the 2012 Olympics.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Lady Whistleup]

8 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I watched the Douglas Family Gold and there were a few red flags 1) Most of the family was employed by Gabby 2) Natalie would refer it as a family business and 3) Natalie put a lot of pressure on Gabby perform to make money. 

I just remember Natalie giving off a rather cold vibe.  I think elite sports is so tough you need parents who are super supportive. Like I get a lump in my throat when I see parents in the stands screaming their head off whether it's the first or 1000th time they've seen their children perform. Natalie just seemed like she'd be the type to value Gabby only for the medals and endorsements.

[choclatechip45]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I just remember Natalie giving off a rather cold vibe.  I think elite sports is so tough you need parents who are super supportive. Like I get a lump in my throat when I see parents in the stands screaming their head off whether it's the first or 1000th time they've seen their children perform. Natalie just seemed like she'd be the type to value Gabby only for the medals and endorsements.

Gymparents just seem very naive in general. It amazes me how Jordyn Weiber's mother allowed Steve Penny to act as her agent.

[Rootbeer]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I just remember Natalie giving off a rather cold vibe.  I think elite sports is so tough you need parents who are super supportive. Like I get a lump in my throat when I see parents in the stands screaming their head off whether it's the first or 1000th time they've seen their children perform. Natalie just seemed like she'd be the type to value Gabby only for the medals and endorsements.

Well, when Gabby was just 14, her mom sent her from their home in Virginia to live in Iowa with her coach and I think Gabby only saw her mother a couple of times in the years prior to her first Olympics at age 16.  I'm not sure a lot of parents could've done that, even for a kid as promising as Gabby.  I do think the whole family, even then, saw Gabby as their ticket to easy street.  Her brother and sisters supposedly made up a 'pros and cons' list to convince their mother to send her to Iowa; somehow, I think her future potential to make them all financially comfortable was probably on it.

[choclatechip45]

31 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Well, when Gabby was just 14, her mom sent her from their home in Virginia to live in Iowa with her coach and I think Gabby only saw her mother a couple of times in the years prior to her first Olympics at age 16.  I'm not sure a lot of parents could've done that, even for a kid as promising as Gabby.  I do think the whole family, even then, saw Gabby as their ticket to easy street.  Her brother and sisters supposedly made up a 'pros and cons' list to convince their mother to send her to Iowa; somehow, I think her future potential to make them all financially comfortable was probably on it.

I always suspected based on rumors that Kathy Kelly (US Women's VIP) on behalf of Martha convinced Gabby's family to move her to another gym. It wasn't that hard for the family to probably put two and two together. 

[HartofDixie]

10 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I don’t get the hate on Gabby either.  I’m annoyed that she only competed on one event, did Madison.  I understand the whole “pick the team that will win the gold” but it looked like the specialists were given the red-headed-stepchild-with-spots treatment. Martha was cold and I truly hope she gets her come-uppance.

I wonder how Gabby would have done if she had performed all the events.

Laurie Hernandez floor routine is still so much fun.

Gabby should have done vault in team finals.  For beam it was between her and Aly.

[Frisky Wig]

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

What was the comment?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/olympics/2017/11/18/aly-raisman-gabby-douglas-usa-gymnastics-scandal

 

[CeeBeeGee]

7 hours ago, Frisky Wig said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/olympics/2017/11/18/aly-raisman-gabby-douglas-usa-gymnastics-scandal

 

Oh jeez, it was even worse than I remembered. "It goes both ways" fuck right OFF with that, Gabby. No. It doesn't.

[Conotocarious]

Yeah it is very difficult to see where she “mis worded” that. Her meaning came through loud and clear. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

Her meaning came through loud and clear, but honestly, I think it also speaks to her background and upbringing.  And everyone responds to sexual abuse in their own way- for some they feel like "if they hadn't worn the short skirt" and "I guess I asked for it by dancing on a table."  kind of self-recrimination.

I am not defending her words.  It was terrible of her to have said them,It was even worse to say it to a fellow teammate and survivor- especially in such a public place.

 

ETA:  I understand if people feel differently about Gabby and her terrible words, and I respect their position and opinions.  Also- NO WOMAN ASKS TO BE ASSAULTED OR RAPED, no matter what.

Edited July 9, 2021 by KittenPokerCheater

[BlackberryJam]

Just now, KittenPokerCheater said:

Her meaning came through loud and clear, but honestly, I think it also speaks to her background and upbringing.  And everyone responds to sexual abuse in their own way- for some they feel like "if they hadn't worn the short skirt" and "I guess I asked for it by dancing on a table."  kind of self-recrimination.

I am not defending her words.  It was terrible of her to have said them,It was even worse to say it to a fellow teammate and survivor- especially in such a public place.

I totally see this, and I'm not saying Gabby is a bad person. Her upbringing sounds difficult, with adult demands and responsibilities placed on her while she was just a child. Her family didn't protect her either.

At the same time, if someone has those attitudes, that person is toxic to the survivor, and to recovery, not to mention it's just uncomfortable knowing that person is judging others.

I couldn't be friends with Gabby Douglas because I don't need someone in my life who blames me for the things that others did to me. So I can understand how other members of the team might not be friends with her. I can still hope she has a fabulous career and does well and feel bad for her.

People are complicated.