The Banshees of Inisherin (2022)

[StatisticalOutlier]

Gosh, I loved this movie.  It's absolutely gorgeous, has perfect music, and top notch performances all around, including from the animals.  Colin Farrell really outdoes himself. 

I know ruts can be problematic, but after this and In Bruges, I'm down for Martin McDonagh getting into a rut with Colin Farrell and Brendan Gleeson. 

[Browncoat]

I loved it, too!  And I agree with your entire post, @StatisticalOutlier.  Colin Farrell  and Brendan Gleeson are so very good. I also loved In Bruges. 

Gorgeous, moving, horrifying, tragic film.  

[voiceover]

Honestly, this is one of those movies I want to see on the basis of its title alone.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 11/9/2022 at 7:19 PM, Browncoat said:

Colin Farrell  and Brendan Gleeson are so very good.

Everybody was very good.  Really, every single person. 

I saw Decision to Leave on the same day as this movie, and Banshees is the one that is sticking with me. 

I just can't stop thinking about the animals.  The miniature donkey was obviously adorable, but the horse...the horse wasn't particularly good looking, but that scene where he was at the door to Padraic's house continues to affect me. 

And the dog, with the shears. 

[kiddo82]

This movie is a perfect example of why phrases such as "low stakes" should be more of an observation than a critique.  In the grand scheme of things, this conflict between two friends isn't all that important, yet, I couldn't take my eyes off it the entire time.  I had no idea which way things would go and McDonagh's screenplay is witty AF.  Farrell and Gleeson were great but Kerry Condon kind of stole every scene she was in for me.  

Is it implied that Barry Keoghan killed himself?  I thought it was pretty pointed when someone said he must have slipped and fell in the river.  

[StatisticalOutlier]

5 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

Is it implied that Barry Keoghan killed himself? 

That's what I inferred; he'd been rejected by a girl, and maybe even worse, he was repulsed by the mean streak his best friend revealed.  And it's not like he had a great life even before these reversals.  His was another character who really got to me.

5 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

I had no idea which way things would go and McDonagh's screenplay is witty AF. 

That's one thing about being familiar with McDonagh's work.  I had no idea which way things would go, but then I'd remember it's Martin McDonagh so maybe I do know which way things will go, and then they do go the way I would expect, and then they go even further. 

[Browncoat]

11 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

Is it implied that Barry Keoghan killed himself? 

I inferred that as well.  

[LADreamr]

Wow, this one stays with you.  I don't know how I thought this would unfold, but it wasn't anything like how it did, and I love that about it. Everyone was amazing.  And I know he was coming from a broken heart, but Padraic was so frustrating, in his inability to follow Colm's simple instructions, even when he knew what the consequences would be.

[luna1122again]

My fave film of the year, so far, but so sad I'll never watch it again. 

[Browncoat]

I saw this again last night, and it is even better the second time.  Still just devastating, but I really felt sorry for Padraic.  In the end, he pretty much had no one except his cattle and his horse.  I feel like the whole island took Colm's side from the beginning.  Well, except Dominic, but even he turned against Padraic when P stopped being nice.  I don't know why I didn't have more sympathy for Colm, except that he still seemed to have lots of friends.

And I think it's just awesome that Brendan Gleeson not only plays the fiddle, but he wrote that tune himself.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:52 PM, Browncoat said:

I saw this again last night, and it is even better the second time.  Still just devastating, but I really felt sorry for Padraic. 

I went to see it again, too.  Something that struck me this time was when Padraic and Colm were sitting outside the pub and Colm said he didn't want to be his friend any more--you could see the course of the conversation in Padraic's face.  Colin Farrell really was outstanding.

[AngieBee1]

I definitely lost sympathy for Pádraic along the way. I understood his broken heart over this loss of friendship, but when someone asks you to keep away, you keep away. If Colm were a female and Pádraic acted the same way as he did with Colm, I doubt people would feel sympathy for him in that situation. He was being completely selfish. It wasn't just costing him, it was obvious that Colm was hurt by the hurt he was causing Pádraic but he had to do what he felt right for him. The same with Siobhan leaving. You can't always live your life for others. You deserve your happiness. And truly good people accept that and let go with grace and love and just appreciate the relationship they had instead of clinging on so tightly that they end up making the other person miserable.

My friend went to a test screening earlier in the year and then rewatched when it was released. He said what was exorcised in the final version was that in the cut he saw there was dialogue between Siobhan and Colm about how after their parents died Colm became a father figure to Pádraic. So he lost Colm on two fronts.

As the awards season rolls on I have seen many films and while the actress category has a ton of stupendous potential nominees, for me, Colin is really the standout in the Best Actor realm. No male actor has really done it for me this year the way Colin has.

[Notwisconsin]

I just saw it. I thought this was supposed to be a comedy, but it was the saddest film of the year.

[kiddo82]

2 hours ago, AngieBee1 said:

I definitely lost sympathy for Pádraic along the way. I understood his broken heart over this loss of friendship, but when someone asks you to keep away, you keep away. If Colm were a female and Pádraic acted the same way as he did with Colm, I doubt people would feel sympathy for him in that situation. He was being completely selfish. It wasn't just costing him, it was obvious that Colm was hurt by the hurt he was causing Pádraic but he had to do what he felt right for him. The same with Siobhan leaving. You can't always live your life for others. You deserve your happiness. And truly good people accept that and let go with grace and love and just appreciate the relationship they had instead of clinging on so tightly that they end up making the other person miserable. 

I felt similarly about Padraic.  It would truly suck to be in his position in real life but he called Colm's bluff once, saw the consequences, and yet he still wouldn't let it go.  It's not that I don't feel badly for him but I can also empathize with Colm.  Colm told Padraic exactly what he wanted and Padriac refused to honor that.  But at the same time, it's hard for me to completely blame Padriac because he does seem socially impaired.  It's hard to say how much emotional intelligence he could bring to the situation.  

[chediavolo]

I had to turn this off halfway through. The sadness in the face of Colin Farrell was killing me. I watched until the speech Colm gave about cutting off a finger every time Padraic spoke to him. I knew it was going to end bad so I ff’d a bit & I was right. Acting was fantastic, scenery gorgeous but this was way way too sad for me. I’ll have to go read a synopsis of it somewhere to find out how it ends, but I’m sorry I watched even half of.  Some people mind sad movies but I need uplifting. 

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I had to turn this off halfway through. The sadness in the face of Colin Farrell was killing me. I watched until the speech Colm gave about cutting off a finger every time Padraic spoke to him. I knew it was going to end bad so I ff’d a bit & I was right. Acting was fantastic, scenery gorgeous but this was way way too sad for me. I’ll have to go read a synopsis of it somewhere to find out how it ends, but I’m sorry I watched even half of.  Some people mind sad movies but I need uplifting. 

I hear you. I loved the movie, but I prefer to laugh. That AMC ad Nicole Kidman does "even heartbreak feels good in a place like this," not so much for this girl. I prefer uplifting TV and music to sad as well. There's so much incredible art that's not happy vibes, but I can only appreciate it in small doses. 

[luna1122again]

5 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I had to turn this off halfway through. The sadness in the face of Colin Farrell was killing me. I watched until the speech Colm gave about cutting off a finger every time Padraic spoke to him. I knew it was going to end bad so I ff’d a bit & I was right. Acting was fantastic, scenery gorgeous but this was way way too sad for me. I’ll have to go read a synopsis of it somewhere to find out how it ends, but I’m sorry I watched even half of.  Some people mind sad movies but I need uplifting. 

It gets sadder and sadder too. I loved it, and I am not sorry I saw it, because it is so gorgeous, and the performances so indelible...but I nearly made myself sick crying. In public, in the theatre. I actually do love sad movies, and I can feel uplifted by them, and I even WAS by this one, by its beauty and art, but damn. It was almost unbearable. 

[EtheltoTillie]

I had to turn it off early on (watching on HBO).  I am all too familiar with McDonagh, and I can take some of his work and can't take others.  Three Billboards was mainstream, easy to swallow McDonagh.  This was moving too slowly for my taste and was too showily metaphorical.  I read the Wikipedia summary, and I learned that one of McDonagh's famous bloodbaths* would be coming.  I saw that there would be no real resolution to the story, just a Waiting For Godot homage. I didn't finish. Sometimes I appreciate a sad and artistic story.  Other times, as here, I become impatient, and the TLDR version is sufficient for me to give credit to the artist.

*Re bloodbath--see Pillowman--a lot of ketchup was spilled on the Broadway stage.  Mr. Tillie left at Act II.

[paramitch]

On 12/15/2022 at 2:02 PM, EtheltoTillie said:

I had to turn it off early on (watching on HBO).  I am all too familiar with McDonagh, and I can take some of his work and can't take others.  Three Billboards was mainstream, easy to swallow McDonagh.  This was moving too slowly for my taste and was too showily metaphorical.  I read the Wikipedia summary, and I learned that one of McDonagh's famous bloodbaths* would be coming.  I saw that there would be no real resolution to the story, just a Waiting For Godot homage. I didn't finish. Sometimes I appreciate a sad and artistic story.  Other times, as here, I become impatient, and the TLDR version is sufficient for me to give credit to the artist.

Honestly, thank you, thank you, thank you. This was me.

Look, I love McDonagh at his best, and I hunkered down for this expecting a fabulous time. I love In Bruges as one of my favorites.

But this? Oh, my God. I got about two-thirds of the way through and had to shut it off.

Just too unbearably frustrating and sad. Nice setup, atmosphere, themes. Some lovely quiet work by Brendan Gleeson and Colin Farrell, as always, though, and of course by writer McDonagh. But so damn depressing! This makes "In Bruges" look like a laugh-fest by comparison.

The worst part for me was that the plot was wholly telegraphed from the first conversation between the two friends after Gleeson's character had ended the friendship. Gleeson threatens an extreme response if Farrell contacts him again -- and follows through on it (in an alarming way that threatens more to come).

I turned it off. I just couldn't take it. I knew how it was going to end and had no interest in getting there.

Then afterward I complained to few friends and half hated the movie and half loved it. So I spoilered myself and all I can say is, I AM SO GLAD I TURNED IT OFF.

I mean, holy cats. I knew we'd see the end of

Spoiler

the rest of Gleeson's fingers (it is an asinine and stupid threat for him to make and as a cellist I don't believe he would threaten such a stupid thing). But the donkey? THEY KILLED THE FUCKING DONKEY (who chokes on one of the fingers?!)

I mean, seriously, this is a Best Picture lock?

I just don't get it. For me, it is laughably bad.

It's beautifully acted and produced hokum. Absolute embarrassing nonsense.

[Chyromaniac]

I also saw this described as a comedy in a few places, and… nah.  Great acting and visuals, and I appreciate what the story was going for - but wow, there’s just a pervasive sadness about all of it.  I get that it’s not the point, but I really wish we could have seen something of the previous day- just to give a sense of what was different if nothing else.  Like, I kind of keep picturing Fred Flintstone out at the bowling alley, when he suddenly realizes that Barney Rubble is a witless clod who will laugh at literally anything.

Otherwise, I think it’s kind of $#!tty for Colm to say that he’s ending the friendship because Padraic is “dull.”  Well, he was dull yesterday when you liked him- so what’s the problem?  It’s not Padraic’s fault that Colm has, seemingly inexplicably, decided to become a cynical elitist overnight.  So he’s suddenly decided that ambition and achievement are more important than attitude for how people are remembered.  Well, that’s a false choice to start with- but also, that’s on you pal.  Don’t make it seem like there’s something Padraic’s done to drive you off, because then he’ll think that there’s something else he can do to fix it.  If Colm had decided that his life is lacking in any way, he could’ve been like Siobhan and actually done something about it.  As is, he only managed to project his own misery on his unsuspecting friend, and ruined both their lives in the process.  What an artist.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Chyromaniac

[Suzn]

I knew this was a polarizing movie by the ratings on IMDB,  so many 10s and so many 1s.  I absolutely hated it.  Unrelenting sadness and boredom of the characters and for me watching.  

Then

Spoiler

when they killed the little donkey, I was through with them and there was nothing they could do to redeem it.  I don't need that cruelty in my life and mind.  It still haunts me.

 

[snickers]

I just watched this tonight on HBO Max....I will say I liked this better than the last movie I watched due to hype (the Menu)...don't know how I feel about a best pic win though

I do think Colin F. deserves all the nominations he is getting for the role...

Is the moral of the story to have more than one friend in your life? 😐

Or to have meaning........

[Scout Finch]

Well...that was, uh, fucked up and dreadfully dreary. The last straw was the donkey!

I really need to remember to check the "Does The Dog Die" website before I watch something. It no longer just covers animals but also anything that might be triggering/upsetting on. Aaaand this movie is among the ones trending on there right now.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Scout Finch

[tres bien]

I hated Colm. What a selfish bastard. And messed up in so many ways. He didn't even deserve to have a faithful dog

[Milburn Stone]

On 1/14/2023 at 7:36 PM, Suzn said:

I knew this was a polarizing movie by the ratings on IMDB,  so many 10s and so many 1s.  I absolutely hated it. 

I've experienced this polarization among my close friends--sometimes expressed in anger, which has been shocking to me. I'm a 10 on the movie by the way, and I'm not alone in my inner circle. But I also have 1's in my inner circle, and I have to respect that.

[heatherchandler]

This movie is so feckin good!

I can see where it would lose some people, it moves a little slow for my taste.  But it is so sad, and hilariously funny too.

 

"It takes two to tango."

"But I don't want to tango."

"But you were dancin with your dog."

[StatisticalOutlier]

19 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I can see where it would lose some people, it moves a little slow for my taste. 

I'm not a deep person, and the subtleties of filmmaking choices almost always fly right over my head.  I also don't mind slow pacing at all.  But it occurs to me that the slow pacing in this one actually serves it well, because it mirrors the slow pacing of life in that village.  And it's an interesting counterpoint to the violence.

Also, I noticed that I singled out the music in my original post, and saw that it got nominated for an Academy Award.  Cool.

[Simon Boccanegra]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:37 AM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Also, I noticed that I singled out the music in my original post, and saw that it got nominated for an Academy Award.  Cool.

It's remarkable to me that this is only Carter Burwell's fourth nomination, given his longevity and how good he is. Besides all of Martin McDonagh's previous films, Burwell is so closely associated with the Coens, from Blood Simple all the way to Joel's solo Macbeth film last year. I think the only ones he has not scored are O Brother Where Art Thou and Inside Llewyn Davis. 

A short featurette on Jenny the donkey: 

 

[Spartan Girl]

All I can say is thanks, I hated it.

Scenery was lovely and the animals were cute—RIP Jenny the donkey—but god what a snooze fest. Brendan Gleeson and Colin Farrell can do better.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:37 AM, Milburn Stone said:

I've experienced this polarization among my close friends--sometimes expressed in anger, which has been shocking to me. I'm a 10 on the movie by the way, and I'm not alone in my inner circle. But I also have 1's in my inner circle, and I have to respect that.

This is a polarizing movie, and the other one I have to bring up here, even though OT, is Everywhere Anywhere whatever it's called.  Which I also didn't like and didn't finish.  These are the two polarizing movies this year.  People I respect and like enjoyed both of those movies. 

[NotMySekrit2Tell]

This movie gave me an ache in my throat and tears in my eyes. As beautiful as the world in it looks to us in terms of the scenery, it's also a small world, and it's petty and stifling. There are four major characters, and three of them are yearning for escape. Kerry Condon (WOW! So different from how she was on Better Call Saul) finds her escape by getting away, even though she knows she is leaving someone behind who will miss her. Brendan Gleeson finds it through more intense dedication to his art and creativity, even though HE is hurting that same person by saying "You're boring; I no longer have time for you." Barry Keoghan has the worst lot of them all, and his "escape" is the saddest if you believe it was suicide, which I do. I think Condon's rejection of him and what he learns about Farrell's actions were just too much on top of it all. 

Farrell is the one who wasn't really thinking of escape. He's limited, and he's accepted the limits of his world as his own. The simple pleasures of day-to-day life were getting him through, which is how a lot of us get through. He just ends the film harder and colder than he was, because he has so much less than he started with. A far-away sister, two friends lost, and no donkey. 

I thought it was simply stupendous, beautifully done. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by NotMySekrit2Tell

[Milburn Stone]

On 2/1/2023 at 8:04 PM, Simon Boccanegra said:

It's remarkable to me that this is only Carter Burwell's fourth nomination, given his longevity and how good he is. Besides all of Martin McDonagh's previous films, Burwell is so closely associated with the Coens, from Blood Simple all the way to Joel's solo Macbeth film last year.

He consistently blows me away. An older non-Coen score of excellence is his one for Kinsey.

On a visit to The Museum of Jurassic Technology in Los Angeles (a weird little place that has nothing to do with dinosaurs), I was pleased to see his name among the important donors. Made all the sense in the world.

[millennium]

I'm sorry, but nobody whose passion is playing a musical instrument is going to hack off his fingers to get a point across to the local dullard.   Nor is anyone, even the local dullard, likely to continue forcing themselves on someone after they bizarrely hack a finger off and throw it at your door.   You have to accept those  conceits for the movie to work, and I just can't.   Best line: "You live on an island off the coast of Ireland.  Everybody is boring!"

Edited February 7, 2023 by millennium

[blackwing]

Watched it again, and I appreciated the performances of everyone even more.  All four actors thoroughly deserve their Oscar nominations.  I'm really hoping Farrell wins over Brendan Fraser.

I was Team Padraic here.  I see comments above that Padraic was selfish in not giving Colm what Colm wanted.  But I think all Padraic needed was an understanding of why things happened the way they did.  They live on an isolated island, it seems that nobody comes and goes.  It's not like they live in London and a friend dropped him, so he finds new friends.  There aren't many people on the island, they've been lifelong friends, even after the rift, they're going to see each other at the pub and everywhere.  Padraic just wants to understand what happened.  And Colm refuses to tell him other than "you're boring".

I think this movie was supposed to be a metaphor about the Irish Civil War, and how both sides believed they were right?  So at the end, when they part on the beach, and the old woman (the "banshee") was sitting there watching, that just means they will never reconcile?  So sad.

On 11/13/2022 at 7:56 AM, kiddo82 said:

Is it implied that Barry Keoghan killed himself?  I thought it was pretty pointed when someone said he must have slipped and fell in the river.  

On 11/13/2022 at 2:08 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

That's what I inferred; he'd been rejected by a girl, and maybe even worse, he was repulsed by the mean streak his best friend revealed.  And it's not like he had a great life even before these reversals.  His was another character who really got to me.

Yes, I think he killed himself.  I think the rejection by Siobhan pushed him over but I also think it's because, according to Padraic, he was being physically and sexually abused by his father.  Padraic mentions it in front of a crowd at the pub and Dominic instantly tries to say it's not true.  It seems like it was true.  And his dad was the police, so there was nothing he could do about it.  Very sad for him.

[Milburn Stone]

18 hours ago, millennium said:

I'm sorry, but nobody whose passion is playing a musical instrument is going to hack off his fingers to get a point across to the local dullard.   Nor is anyone, even the local dullard, likely to continue forcing themselves on someone after they bizarrely hack a finger off and throw it at your door.   You have to accept those  conceits for the movie to work, and I just can't. 

Here's how I received the story. (Maybe it will work for you, maybe it won't.) I imagined it as a folk tale. As such, it could work in any number of cultures. For instance, imagine a Sholom Aleichem story set in a shtetl in Eastern Europe. "There was a man who was so bored by his friend that he threatened to cut off a finger if the friend wouldn't leave him alone. He made this threat in front of all the men of the village, so that all would know he was serious. The friend didn't believe him at first, so he gave the friend two chances before making it clear that one more word would cause him to take the promised action. The friend still didn't believe him, leaving the man with no choice but to prove his seriousness or forever be thought a liar in his community." And so on. If I read that in a folk tale, I would totally buy into its premise, and thoughts like "no man would actually do that" would be far far away from my mind. That's what The Banshees of Inisherin is. A folk tale. One invented by Martin McDonagh, but nevertheless a folk tale.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Milburn Stone

[kiddo82]

I also think Colm was so depressed he really didn't care anymore.  Music was passing the time but it wasn't bringing him joy.  He even makes a comment to Siobhan about staving off the inevitable.  

I watched this again over the weekend and I enjoyed it even more the second time.  I can see where it would be divisive but it hits the right spot for me.  It's haunting but also hysterical.  I love the Kerry Condon nomination.  She does so much with what is essentially a straight man role but brings pathos and oh so much humor.  And Farrell does crestfallen so well he breaks your heart without even saying a word.  

Edited February 8, 2023 by kiddo82

[Schweedie]

16 hours ago, blackwing said:

Yes, I think he killed himself.  I think the rejection by Siobhan pushed him over but I also think it's because, according to Padraic, he was being physically and sexually abused by his father.  Padraic mentions it in front of a crowd at the pub and Dominic instantly tries to say it's not true.  It seems like it was true.  And his dad was the police, so there was nothing he could do about it.  Very sad for him.

He doesn't even say it's not true, he says "I never told him that, Dad, he's just drunk". Poor Dominic. (For some reason I loved Brendan Gleeson's face when Padraic said that - it was just very much a "we all knew/at least suspected that but you said it OUT LOUD?" expression.)

I'm not sure the film is a 10 for me, but it's definitely in the upper range. But it made me feel -- unsettled. And sad.

[Simon Boccanegra]

Talking a little more broadly about divisiveness and polarization, maybe it was always true that there were acclaimed movies many people hated. People, especially young people, were fancying themselves iconoclasts for years by announcing that they finally watched Citizen Kane and it was boring and overrated. And there were always auteurs who left people cold with their whole body of work. But doesn't it seem there are more such movies now than ever before? A poster above mentioned Banshees and Everything Everywhere All At Once as the year's polarizing movies, but I've been seeing intense disagreements on my social-media feeds for months about TÁR too. Elvis is polarizing (as is everything Luhrmann does; you either eat up his maximalist spectacle approach with a spoon or you can't stand it, and I'm in...one of those categories).Triangle of Sadness, the Best Picture nominee from 2022 with the lowest Rotten Tomatoes score, is polarizing. Blonde for damn sure is polarizing, although it seems the "anti" contingent is louder in the United States. The Whale...some people really are deeply moved by it; others feel affronted by it. 

I don't have an explanation, if this is a thing. Maybe cinema is so far along in its maturity now, and we've seen all the motion-picture genres brought off in so many ways, that really reaching people by doing distinctive work means alienating others? I'm just musing. I don't even know that it applies to all of the above. (The Whale, IMO, is the least "distinctive" movie on the above list.) 

If anyone here has not seen the Actors on Actors chat between Jamie Lee Curtis and Colin Farrell, give it a look, especially if you really like one or both of EEAAO and Banshees. They have good chemistry and get good material out of each other. Curtis is pretty firmly Team Colm. She talked about advancing age and the specter of mortality, feeling she just has less of herself to give, and she said she's had to go through a similar process with people in her life. Minus the finger amputations.

17 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

If I read that in a folk tale, I would totally buy into its premise, and thoughts like "no man would actually do that" would be far far away from my mind. That's what The Banshees of Inisherin is. A folk tale. One invented by Martin McDonagh, but nevertheless a folk tale.

Same. I looked at it as a movie with one foot in the literal, one in myth and metaphor. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Simon Boccanegra

[Milburn Stone]

10 minutes ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

...maybe it was always true that there were acclaimed movies many people hated...But doesn't it seem there are more such movies now than ever before?...I don't really have an explanation...

Social media gets blamed for a lot, but one thing I think we can lay at its door is polarization. Ever since it "caught on," it has seemed to divide people into equal-sized camps no matter what the matter at hand. Witness our close presidential elections, and practically-tied Senate and House. Something about social media seems to make people want to form opposing armies.

[Suzn]

I don't have an explanation for the polarization that is so common now and there may not be a global reason covering  all.  For me, I often either dislike or have no interest in the most widely popular movies and have not seen many of them - Titanic and Love Story for example.  I want to like any movie I decide to watch and I'm not getting on anyone's band wagon, so if I dislike a movie, I'm disappointed.

I didn't just hate Banshees, I loathed and despised it.  It made me feel so bad that after watching it, I went looking for the opinions of others to see if I was alone.  The large number of both 10s and 1s on IMDB was surprising.  Certainly there are many people who align themselves with a particular camp to appear correct to their crowd, but for this movie, the reviews mostly sounded to be the genuine reactions of the reviewers.  I have to say I don't understand the love of this movie, but I accept that for most praising it, it is the sincere opinion.

[katha]

On 2/8/2023 at 5:38 PM, Simon Boccanegra said:

Talking a little more broadly about divisiveness and polarization, maybe it was always true that there were acclaimed movies many people hated. People, especially young people, were fancying themselves iconoclasts for years by announcing that they finally watched Citizen Kane and it was boring and overrated. And there were always auteurs who left people cold with their whole body of work. But doesn't it seem there are more such movies now than ever before? A poster above mentioned Banshees and Everything Everywhere All At Once as the year's polarizing movies, but I've been seeing intense disagreements on my social-media feeds for months about TÁR too. Elvis is polarizing (as is everything Luhrmann does; you either eat up his maximalist spectacle approach with a spoon or you can't stand it, and I'm in...one of those categories).Triangle of Sadness, the Best Picture nominee from 2022 with the lowest Rotten Tomatoes score, is polarizing. Blonde for damn sure is polarizing, although it seems the "anti" contingent is louder in the United States. The Whale...some people really are deeply moved by it; others feel affronted by it. 

I don't have an explanation, if this is a thing. Maybe cinema is so far along in its maturity now, and we've seen all the motion-picture genres brought off in so many ways, that really reaching people by doing distinctive work means alienating others? I'm just musing. I don't even know that it applies to all of the above. (The Whale, IMO, is the least "distinctive" movie on the above list.) 

I think the different way films are now consumed plays into the polarization tbh. Many niche movies become accessible to a broad public due to streaming services. And they might be watched more because they're available and acclaimed. But often those are not viewers who would have sought out those projects on their own. Also: Social media. The motivation to rant about something you hated is probably always greater than if you had a pleasant time. 

Something that I also dislike about social media and the way its discourse operates: As an example, take that argument scene from "Marriage Story" and how it was widely mocked and meme'd as "bad acting/writing". Now, I think the movie works better in individual scenes than as a whole entity and there are plot holes and frustrating characterization choices, so I'm certainly not saying its beyond criticism. But twitter taking that one scene out of context and mocking it, even though in the film it makes sense that they behave that way is kinda symptomatic about how much of these discussions escalate. The characters ARE overacting, because their conflict has devolved into a performative and destructive game of one-upmanship. Which you'd know if you watched all of it. But I think social media discourse encourages "fast takes" and "hot takes" and a lot of extreme judgements. 

That said, the new media landscape also makes creating movies with broad appeal more difficult. "Top Gun" managed that this year, and its being feted because it's become such a rare achievement outside of franchises. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by katha

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, katha said:

But often those are not viewers who would have sought out those projects on their own.

And they're liable to be watching them on their phones, or with their phones at the ready.  One reason I liked Banshees is that I was immersed in that beautiful but stifling village.

James Cameron said something interesting:  "Going to a movie theater is less about the size of the screen and the perfection of the sound system. And it's more about a decision to not multitask." 

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/16/1149375096/james-cameron-on-the-delicate-balance-of-makings-sequels

When people say they didn't like a movie and it's clear they had not made a decision not to multitask (like, for example, posting their opinion while they're still watching the movie), I do wonder if they might have a different opinion if they had given it their undivided attention, which some niche movies might require, especially if the viewer is venturing into uncharted territory.

[LadyAmalthea]

I loved this film, the kind where you want to watch it again to pick up on all the nuances and foreshadowing.

On 2/8/2023 at 8:59 AM, blackwing said:

I think this movie was supposed to be a metaphor about the Irish Civil War, and how both sides believed they were right?  So at the end, when they part on the beach, and the old woman (the "banshee") was sitting there watching, that just means they will never reconcile?  So sad.

Yes - that was my impression while watching, and solidified by the final scene. Note that Colm has a red front door, and Pádraic has a green front door, and at one point Pádraic accuses Colm of acting "English." I think a great deal that was "unrealistic" about the characters was in service of the allegory, and how this conflict consumed both of them to the point of self and mutual destruction.

[Suzn]

All this sort of sounds like my hatred of the movie is because I didn't pay enough attention and various other things that are failures on my part.  So the gut-wrenching feelings it left me with are apparently shallow and unjustified. I can guarantee that having the movie explained to me is not going to make me feel any differently about it.

Incidentally, I am inclined to enjoy niche movies that get little attention and seldom have any interest in the blockbusters like the latest Top Gun and Avatar movies and I usually avoid them.

The way movies are consumed is very different due to streaming and social media, that makes more access and attention  and also makes a more hostile environment, so conditions are both more positive and negative.  When you read comments/reviews of movie you can pretty easily tell when the writer is full of crap and when they have legitimate criticism.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Suzn

[Simon Boccanegra]

On 2/19/2023 at 10:46 AM, katha said:

Something that I also dislike about social media and the way its discourse operates: As an example, take that argument scene from "Marriage Story" and how it was widely mocked and meme'd as "bad acting/writing". [...] The characters ARE overacting, because their conflict has devolved into a performative and destructive game of one-upmanship. Which you'd know if you watched all of it. But I think social media discourse encourages "fast takes" and "hot takes" and a lot of extreme judgements. 

That's an interesting observation. If social media had existed in the early '70s, people may have memed the most intense argument from all 280 minutes of Scenes from a Marriage (an obvious influence on the film you mention) and mocked the "overacting" of Liv Ullmann and Erland Josephson.

On topic, congrats to Kerry Condon and Barry Keoghan for their BAFTA wins in the supporting categories. The film also won for Best British Film and for Best Original Screenplay.  

Edited February 21, 2023 by Simon Boccanegra

[Shannon L.]

I had coffee with a friend last week who told me that she'd watched this the night before and hated it and didn't even know what the movie was supposed to be about.  A few days later, I saw a post from an author who loved it and said that it was about the "inability of men to connect, communicate, resolve differences and forgive, and how the deficiencies lead to madness and violence."  So, when I watched it last night, I kept that in mind and understood what he was saying.  The writer certainly wasn't subtle about it.

For all of the "it's polorizing-you love it or hate it" talk, I'm in the "It was ok" camp.  Like most of these multiple award nominated movies that most people can't stop talking about, I recognize the great acting and technical brilliance here, but overall, I'm just not sure how to describe how I felt about it.  I gave it an hour because my son, who loved it, asked me to give it that long.  Based on the premise, I wasn't going to watch it at all because I fully expected to hate it, but after an hour, I didn't feel the urge to turn it off.  I felt like it certainly dragged in some places but in other scenes it was fascinating enough to keep me interested. I'm glad I saw it, but I don't think it's a movie I would recommend to anyone in my circle of friends and I don't think I could watch it again.

As for the fall out between the two men, I found myself mad at both of them on occasion, but still lean towards team Padraic because Colm angered me one too many times.  Also, I could kind of relate to some of what Padraic was going through which made some of his scenes almost painful to watch.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Shannon L.

[Simon Boccanegra]

A good close read from Thomas Flight, whose video essays I usually like. Even if you don't love this particular film as much as he does, I'd recommend subscribing to his YouTube channel. 

 

[millennium]

The image of a little pet donkey choking to death on severed human fingers was repulsive.   I could find no symbolism or message in that scene to justify or mitigate the loathsome, lifelong memory it bestowed upon me.

It has been my impression that the polarizing opinions of this movie are less about the movie itself and more rooted in art house cinema vs. popular culture.   Art house movies are an endangered species.  Lovers of such movies are keenly aware of how precarious the future is for smaller, independent films in this age of comic book movies and straight-to-streaming arrangements.   There is a small irony that the movie in question has the word "Banshee" in the title, for in the strident defenses of this film I hear a collective wail that this genre of cinema is facing an imminent demise.

[paramitch]

On 1/9/2023 at 5:12 AM, Chyromaniac said:

I also saw this described as a comedy in a few places, and… nah.  Great acting and visuals, and I appreciate what the story was going for - but wow, there’s just a pervasive sadness about all of it.  I get that it’s not the point, but I really wish we could have seen something of the previous day- just to give a sense of what was different if nothing else.  Like, I kind of keep picturing Fred Flintstone out at the bowling alley, when he suddenly realizes that Barney Rubble is a witless clod who will laugh at literally anything.

Something like this -- this kind of contrast -- could have actually helped me get through the film, not to mention like it better overall as a piece of work. Maybe some past glimpse of their friendship at its height? A shared laugh or a pint? I don't know.

As it is, this sense of sameness contributed to the unrelenting dreariness of the film tonally for me. 

On 1/20/2023 at 9:31 PM, Scout Finch said:

Well...that was, uh, fucked up and dreadfully dreary. The last straw was the donkey!

I really need to remember to check the "Does The Dog Die" website before I watch something. It no longer just covers animals but also anything that might be triggering/upsetting on. Aaaand this movie is among the ones trending on there right now.

No kidding. I just felt like the death of Paddy's beloved little donkey (which I read about -- I didn't watch it) is such a middle finger to the audience. It's just unnecessarily cruel to me, and a shallow ploy to add "depth" and "meaning."

On 1/23/2023 at 9:16 AM, tres bien said:

I hated Colm. What a selfish bastard. And messed up in so many ways. He didn't even deserve to have a faithful dog

I hated him too. What he does is cruel, and he handles it in the cruelest possible way on top of that. 

On 1/24/2023 at 5:37 AM, Milburn Stone said:

I've experienced this polarization among my close friends--sometimes expressed in anger, which has been shocking to me. I'm a 10 on the movie by the way, and I'm not alone in my inner circle. But I also have 1's in my inner circle, and I have to respect that.

I have friends who felt the same, who found it a masterpiece or a failure. I am personally at a 3-4 on it out of 10. I respect the artists involved and as a playwright, I've liked a lot of McDonagh's other work. But yeah, this did not work for me at all.

On 1/27/2023 at 1:00 PM, heatherchandler said:

This movie is so feckin good!

I can see where it would lose some people, it moves a little slow for my taste.  But it is so sad, and hilariously funny too.

"It takes two to tango."

"But I don't want to tango."

"But you were dancin with your dog."

I have friends who found it hilarious too. I think for me the issue is that everything in the film (the first half-ish that I watched) is delivered at the same dour, sad, near-monotonous mumble (Kerry Condon being the welcome exception). For me, there wasn't enough variance so it just didn't work at all -- the witty lines were said with the same apathy as the depressed, sad ones. Which is why I suspect it works best of all as a screenplay. For instance -- what you quote above is genuinely funny. But I watched the clip on YouTube and I still find it dreary and tedious.

On 2/1/2023 at 5:04 PM, Simon Boccanegra said:

It's remarkable to me that this is only Carter Burwell's fourth nomination, given his longevity and how good he is. Besides all of Martin McDonagh's previous films, Burwell is so closely associated with the Coens, from Blood Simple all the way to Joel's solo Macbeth film last year. I think the only ones he has not scored are O Brother Where Art Thou and Inside Llewyn Davis. 

A short featurette on Jenny the donkey: 

 

That featurette on Jenny is adorable, WHICH MAKES IT WORSE! Who makes the donkey this poor lonely guy's best friend AND THEN KILLS IT? When it's his last friend in the world? Aghghghg, McDonagh!

Meanwhile: I'm a huge film music buff, and love Carter Burwell's work. I respect all the wonderful work he's done for the Coens, but my absolute favorite scores by him are for other films (maybe because the Coen work is such a seamless blend with the visuals that the score feels like a part of the whole? My favorites include Conspiracy Theory (an absolutely gorgeous score in a so-so movie), Doc Hollywood, And the Band Played On, Kinsey, and (most recently) Catherine Called Birdy. But his work is always just superb, and he's so versatile! His scores include every single musical genre or style you can think of.

Burwell is also an important part of an initiative called Your Music, Your Future (started with Joel Beckerman, John Powell, and Pinar Toprak), aimed at raising awareness about buyouts (work agreements with composers that cut out royalties -- which comprise the bread and butter for most working composers). Burwell is also very dedicated to working as basically the anti-Hans Zimmer. Zimmer currently gets solo credit, vast sums, and Oscar nominations for scores that are assembled by his studio of uncredited (and often underpaid) ghost and by-the-gig composers. He's a proponent of solo work = solo credit, and is also very outspoken about trying to increase awareness of how streaming is damaging the livelihoods of composers -- just an all-around good guy.

And so brilliant. I did think his score for Banshees was really lovely. I especially loved that it was not a stereotypically "Irish" score (evidently that was a stipulation by McDonagh, and I think it was a very smart one).

On 2/4/2023 at 8:47 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

This is a polarizing movie, and the other one I have to bring up here, even though OT, is Everywhere Anywhere whatever it's called.  Which I also didn't like and didn't finish.  These are the two polarizing movies this year.  People I respect and like enjoyed both of those movies. 

The interesting comparison here is that, speaking as someone who quit Banshees halfway through, not one of my friends has told me if I kept watching that it would change my mind. The movie is what it is all the way through, for better or worse. Whereas, I would argue that what Everything Everywhere All at Once is a deliberate build -- the first half is often challenging, tense, frenetic, and frustrating, but when the heroine starts to gain understanding of her loved ones, herself, her alternate lives, the sudden rush of humanity and joy into the film is incredibly beautiful. But it's an earned awareness -- you have to slog through some stress and sadness to get there, but oh man, the final 35-50% of the movie is just one headlong rush of increasing empathy, humanity, and joy. (But I get that people feel about EEAO as I do about Banshees, so no pressure.)

On 2/6/2023 at 9:26 PM, millennium said:

I'm sorry, but nobody whose passion is playing a musical instrument is going to hack off his fingers to get a point across to the local dullard.   Nor is anyone, even the local dullard, likely to continue forcing themselves on someone after they bizarrely hack a finger off and throw it at your door.   You have to accept those  conceits for the movie to work, and I just can't.   Best line: "You live on an island off the coast of Ireland.  Everybody is boring!"

Yeah, I found this incredibly immersion-breaking. I do get that it's supposed to have that paradoxical life-is-cruel O. Henry aspect, but for me it just feels glib and unbelievable.

On 2/7/2023 at 3:23 PM, Milburn Stone said:

Here's how I received the story. (Maybe it will work for you, maybe it won't.) I imagined it as a folk tale. As such, it could work in any number of cultures. For instance, imagine a Sholom Aleichem story set in a shtetl in Eastern Europe. "There was a man who was so bored by his friend that he threatened to cut off a finger if the friend wouldn't leave him alone. He made this threat in front of all the men of the village, so that all would know he was serious. The friend didn't believe him at first, so he gave the friend two chances before making it clear that one more word would cause him to take the promised action. The friend still didn't believe him, leaving the man with no choice but to prove his seriousness or forever be thought a liar in his community." And so on. If I read that in a folk tale, I would totally buy into its premise, and thoughts like "no man would actually do that" would be far far away from my mind. That's what The Banshees of Inisherin is. A folk tale. One invented by Martin McDonagh, but nevertheless a folk tale.

I can kind of see the folk tale thing. The cruelty of it definitely has a folk tale aspect.

On 2/8/2023 at 8:38 AM, Simon Boccanegra said:

I don't have an explanation, if this is a thing. Maybe cinema is so far along in its maturity now, and we've seen all the motion-picture genres brought off in so many ways, that really reaching people by doing distinctive work means alienating others? I'm just musing. I don't even know that it applies to all of the above. (The Whale, IMO, is the least "distinctive" movie on the above list.) 

If anyone here has not seen the Actors on Actors chat between Jamie Lee Curtis and Colin Farrell, give it a look, especially if you really like one or both of EEAAO and Banshees. They have good chemistry and get good material out of each other. Curtis is pretty firmly Team Colm. She talked about advancing age and the specter of mortality, feeling she just has less of herself to give, and she said she's had to go through a similar process with people in her life. Minus the finger amputations.

Same. I looked at it as a movie with one foot in the literal, one in myth and metaphor. 

I do think polarization on creative work isn't necessarily a bad thing, and that social media as a whole is a divide where that's concerned -- on the one hand, it's a place where people can explore their feelings about the work they saw and express themselves while finding others of like mind. On the other hand, it can be a sludgepit where too many people are simply seeking reinforcement for their own bigotry and toxicity. I'm a vocal fandom member and I love social media, but you have to really curate your experiences and community carefully to maintain a positive experience.

I disliked The Whale intensely. I was already aware of it as a play, and I just did not get the acclaim for it then. It felt exactly like "thin person writes condescending, pitying slop about what it means to be a fat person without the faintest clue of what it actually means to be a fat person." Amplified by 1000x onscreen. I'm an overweight woman and continue to be amused and gobsmacked by how most screenwriters write fat people. I guess I should be grateful it wasn't about a fat woman, at least (we are usually the go-to punchlines).

I loved the "Actors on Actors" chat between Jamie Lee and Colin. It didn't change my opinion on the movie in any way, but they were a joy to watch together.

On 2/8/2023 at 8:55 AM, Milburn Stone said:

Social media gets blamed for a lot, but one thing I think we can lay at its door is polarization. Ever since it "caught on," it has seemed to divide people into equal-sized camps no matter what the matter at hand. Witness our close presidential elections, and practically-tied Senate and House. Something about social media seems to make people want to form opposing armies.

To me it feels more like social media can be a breeding ground and amplifier for polarization. Not that it causes it, but that it grows and enhances it, and gives its more extreme/toxic edges places to flourish. People pile on and are cruel in ways they would not be in everyday life. (See also the ridiculously extremist, toxic SM reactions to The Last Jedi.)

On 2/12/2023 at 9:54 AM, Suzn said:

I want to like any movie I decide to watch and I'm not getting on anyone's band wagon, so if I dislike a movie, I'm disappointed.

I didn't just hate Banshees, I loathed and despised it.  It made me feel so bad that after watching it, I went looking for the opinions of others to see if I was alone.  The large number of both 10s and 1s on IMDB was surprising.  Certainly there are many people who align themselves with a particular camp to appear correct to their crowd, but for this movie, the reviews mostly sounded to be the genuine reactions of the reviewers.  I have to say I don't understand the love of this movie, but I accept that for most praising it, it is the sincere opinion.

That's exactly how I feel as well. I was so excited to watch this movie, I respect McDonagh's work going back over a decade now, from the theatre to film. But this just floored me. I mean, I haaaaaaated it. I hated the way it made me feel.

With that said, I fully accept that after the past 3 years of COVID and a lot of personal strife, that I am just not in a headspace to watch something like this. It was depressing for me on levels that are hard to explain. Ironically, I can watch No Country for Old Men multiple times and be exhilarated by its depth and complexity and even unexpected humanity. It doesn't depress me in the slightest.

But this I just found absolutely dour, tedious, and unbearably sad. It felt cruel in ways that made me angry.

On 2/19/2023 at 7:46 AM, katha said:

Something that I also dislike about social media and the way its discourse operates: As an example, take that argument scene from "Marriage Story" and how it was widely mocked and meme'd as "bad acting/writing". Now, I think the movie works better in individual scenes than as a whole entity and there are plot holes and frustrating characterization choices, so I'm certainly not saying its beyond criticism. But twitter taking that one scene out of context and mocking it, even though in the film it makes sense that they behave that way is kinda symptomatic about how much of these discussions escalate. The characters ARE overacting, because their conflict has devolved into a performative and destructive game of one-upmanship. Which you'd know if you watched all of it. But I think social media discourse encourages "fast takes" and "hot takes" and a lot of extreme judgements. 

That said, the new media landscape also makes creating movies with broad appeal more difficult. "Top Gun" managed that this year, and its being feted because it's become such a rare achievement outside of franchises. 

That's a good example of what social media and the Internet at large can do -- I love Marriage Story, and was incredibly upset that this one scene was being shown out of context again and again in a negative light. I was so frustrated. The irony is that Driver's character is not an angry person overall, and he's someone who is a pretty genuinely low-key, kind, good guy. That one scene is his reacting to some really big triggers -- and then (worst of all) the critics of the "bad acting/writing/overkill" aspect cut the scene before the essential next moment -- when he is genuinely horrified at his outburst, and he falls at his ex-wife's feet in tears (and she comforts him). It is a really moving scene that was turned into a joke. The movie is a gentle and mostly positive, if painful, exploration of a divorce that I found really resonant and moving. 

On 2/19/2023 at 11:52 AM, StatisticalOutlier said:

And they're liable to be watching them on their phones, or with their phones at the ready.  One reason I liked Banshees is that I was immersed in that beautiful but stifling village.

James Cameron said something interesting:  "Going to a movie theater is less about the size of the screen and the perfection of the sound system. And it's more about a decision to not multitask." 

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/16/1149375096/james-cameron-on-the-delicate-balance-of-makings-sequels

When people say they didn't like a movie and it's clear they had not made a decision not to multitask (like, for example, posting their opinion while they're still watching the movie), I do wonder if they might have a different opinion if they had given it their undivided attention, which some niche movies might require, especially if the viewer is venturing into uncharted territory.

Respectfully, this (and the accompanying thread) takes things a little far for me. I didn't watch Banshees (or anything else) on my phone, so I don't dislike it because I'm missing details or too impatient to allow immersion. I also didn't dislike it because I didn't pay attention to it fully nor because I didn't understand it (and this has been a slightly repeated implication in this thread, which is really frustrating for me at this point).

I have a degree in film and am a longtime working writer and playwright. I understood the film (yes, including the allegorical Irish Civil War aspect). I just didn't think it was successful, enjoyable, or watchable. For me, it didn't work. I'm happy for everyone who enjoyed it -- I desperately wanted to be one of them. Meanwhile, I can dislike the film without having to defend my intellect or capacity to sit still for two hours.

Maybe someday I will be in a different headspace and manage to get through the whole thing and my opinion will change. However, today is not that day.

On 2/20/2023 at 9:31 AM, Suzn said:

All this sort of sounds like my hatred of the movie is because I didn't pay enough attention and various other things that are failures on my part.  So the gut-wrenching feelings it left me with are apparently shallow and unjustified. I can guarantee that having the movie explained to me is not going to make me feel any differently about it.

Thank you -- this was perfectly said.

[Enigma X]

I don't know. I loved this movie. I majored in English Literature and minored in Gaelic Cultures as an undergrad. A lot of the Irish plays we read had this feel. With that said, I know many who hated it. I do wish they verbally leaned more into the conversation that Padraic and Colm were having in the pub about legacy.