S17.E09: A Polygamist Divorce

[Kid]

On 11/7/2022 at 9:53 AM, Dobian said:

It's just a married guy and his ex-wives.

Ex-mistresses and ex wife, in my humble opinion. 
 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Kid

[kassa]

On 11/6/2022 at 11:59 PM, Onecattoo said:

4. Christine and Janelles kids are all pretty great.  They also have never treated Robyn's kids badly at all…that’s all just gaslite victimization. 
 

The kids ARE great, but we saw at least one episode where something happened and Meri (? I think) charged in to roar at the kids that they needed to include their new siblings. They were outside at a graduation or something. 

Nothing we've seen would make me think the kids were openly mean or abusive to Robyn's kids, but knowing teenagers, I can definitely see one of them saying "Back off, you've only been here 5 minutes" to a new stepsib who was overstepping boundaries.  It may not be the way the parents want it, but most of the kids were at an age where polite and civil getting along was as much as could have been hoped for (even if hope was held that genuine friendships might develop).  They were "in the family" for a couple of years before they even lived in the same neighborhood as their siblings - what kind of bond would you expect?

I agree with those who say that Christine talking with her adult children isn't the same as badmouthing Kody to young ones. Hell, she didn't even tell Truely they were kaput for MONTHS because Kody wasn't ready.  I bet every single one of those older kids (her own and Janelles, and hell, maybe even Leon!) at some point asked her point blank why she was putting up with his disrespect, and that they were there for her if she needed to make different decisions about her life. 

I've never been rabid anti-Robyn, but Kody's televised behavior one on one with Christine post breakup has consistently been bewildered but accepting and maybe secretly happy that the pressure is off to have to fake it. Sometimes he's even reasonable (at least on camera) And then in the talking heads he's rabid. Maybe it's a case of thinking of the right reaction 5 minutes too late and pulling it out for the cameras, or maybe he's getting an earful at home about how all of this MAKES HIM LOOK and he gets revved up to TELL HIS SIDE and CLEAR HIS (and Robyn's) NAME. 

[General Days]

On 11/8/2022 at 11:41 AM, Spectator said:

I’ve been trying (and failing) to define Janelle’s position right now and you just nailed it - she’s “quiet quitting”.

I think quiet quitting is exactly right.

On 11/8/2022 at 3:34 PM, Jeanne222 said:

I think Kody was done with Leon when they announced. Up to that point he treated them like any of the others.

Knowing how much Meri loves Leon I would think that would cause separation between Meri and Kody but so far it hasn’t. 

That leads me to believe Meri loves being on a reality show and the big house and the $$ and having those on Luluroe functions ohh and aaa over her. 

No woman would ever stay like Meri stays. She sees the talking heads and listens to Kody talk about her and how he no longer cares. 

It’s actually kind of sad. 😞

I think Meri is still in love with Kody. I think she even had the emotional affair (that's what her side of the catfish scheme was, after all) because she is in love with him, and the legal divorce (and his growing love for Robin and her kids) hurt her so much. She was raised in this polygamy crap, so she thinks it can work, but it can't work when you are in love with your husband, but he's in love with one of his other "wives."

I do feel bad for Meri, even in her hypocrisy, because this is an awful way to live. I feel bad for the other women, too -- even Robyn.

I've started to think of these women like unwitting contestants on Survivor: outwit, outplay, outlast. Robyn's better at playing the game than the others, and Christine just figured out she doesn't have to play at all. Janelle suits up for games, but is happy riding the bench. Meri had a career-ending injury and refuses to accept it.

I started re-watching from the beginning after Robyn's ludicrous accusation that Christine was lying about their relationship (btw, I think Meri had it right, and Robyn didn't even understand what Christine said, and was responding to something Christine did not even say).

The writing was on the wall for how all four of these "marriages" would turn out, from season one. 

I think what happened to Christine, is that she'd never seen Kody fall in love before Robyn came along. I wish the show would cover their faith more -- especially Kody and Christine losing their religion.

Meri had seen Kody fall in love. Kody was in love with her once upon a time. You can still see remnants of his passion for her in the first couple of seasons. And that's why he is done with her now, because he's a narcissist, and can't accept that she was looking for something better.

Janelle can tolerate plural marriage, because she wasn't raised in this crap, and because she'd been previously married and divorced, and because while I believe she loved Kody (once), it wasn't that kind of all-consuming in-love love. When she married him, he was still in love with Meri. Their passion was a pre-established fact. Also, having six kids gave her perspective.

By the time Christine came along, Meri still wasn't pregnant, and I would bet some cash that her infertility and the friction between Meri and Janelle, had chipped away at some of Kody's enthusiasm for Meri, so Christine never had to watch him have intense feelings for someone (other than himself), until Robyn.

On 11/9/2022 at 1:22 PM, the-grey-lady said:

Thinking more about Robyn's ludicrous argument that Christine isn't really divorced until she has sex with someone else...

That means Robyn wasn't really divorced until she married/has sex with Kody. It also means she was courting/kissing him while still married.

It also means that people who divorce and never date/sleep with anyone else are forever married to their exes.

GTFO out here with that nonsense, Robyn. And quit making shit up on the fly. You're not quick enough on your feet.

If there is one thing the cast of Sister Wives is not, that one thing is articulate.

Because Latter Day Saints have this concept of spiritual marriage, in which marriage is eternal, I think they believe that a couple is married in the sight of God, unless/until a new union is consummated (and in the cases of polygamists, only the woman must be monogamous). Contrast that with mainstream Christian marriages, which are only "until death do us part," or "as long as we both shall live."

So, like the AUB probably does have a process to recognize the dissolution of a relationship, but probably believe God considers the woman her ex-husband's property spouse, unless/until some other man owns her consummates his marriage to her.

On 11/9/2022 at 1:30 PM, gingerella said:

IIRC, didn't Sobyn sleep with him before they were married? I seem to remember a lot of shenanigans going on during their 'courting' that went beyond anything he ever did with the other wives...So maybe that's what Douche told her so he could get it in before the wedding...

I think that's somewhere between probable and likely, but we were never shown that on the show. There was some furor over the fact that Kody even kissed Robyn while they were dating.

Edited November 11, 2022 by General Days

[Jeanne222]

6 minutes ago, General Days said:

I think quiet quitting is exactly right.

I think Meri is still in love with Kody. I think she even had the emotional affair (that's what her side of the catfish scheme was, after all) because she is in love with him, and the legal divorce (and his growing love for Robin and her kids) hurt her so much. She was raised in this polygamy crap, so she thinks it can work, but it can't work when you are in love with your husband, but he's in love with one of his other "wives."

I do feel bad for Meri, even in her hypocrisy, because this is an awful way to live. I feel bad for the other women, too -- even Robyn.

I've started to think of these women like unwitting contestants on Survivor: outwit, outplay, outlast. Robyn's better at playing the game than the others, and Christine just figured out she doesn't have to play at all. Janelle suits up for games, but is happy riding the bench. Meri had a career-ending injury and refuses to accept it.

I started re-watching from the beginning after Robyn's ludicrous accusation that Christine was lying about their relationship (btw, I think Meri had it right, and Robyn didn't even understand what Christine said, and was responding to something Christine did not even say).

The writing was on the wall for how all four of these "marriages" would turn out, from season one. 

I think what happened to Christine, is that she'd never seen Kody fall in love before Robyn came along. I wish the show would cover their faith more -- especially Kody and Christine losing their religion.

Meri had seen Kody fall in love. Kody was in love with her once upon a time. You can still see remnants of his passion for her in the first couple of seasons. And that's why he is done with her now, because he's a narcissist, and can't accept that she was looking for something better.

Janelle can tolerate plural marriage, because she wasn't raised in this crap, and because she'd been previously married and divorced, and because while I believe she loved Kody (once), it wasn't that kind of all-consuming in-love love. When she married him, he was still in love with Meri. Their passion was a pre-established fact. Also, having six kids gave her perspective.

By the time Christine came along, Meri still wasn't pregnant, and I would bet some cash that her infertility and the friction between Meri and Janelle, had chipped away at some of Kody's enthusiasm for Meri, so Christine never had to watch him have intense feelings for someone (other than himself), until Robyn.

If there is one thing the cast of Sister Wives is not, that one thing is articulate.

Because Latter Day Saints have this concept of spiritual marriage, in which marriage is eternal, I think they believe that a couple is married in the sight of God, unless/until a new union is consummated (and in the cases of polygamists, only the woman must be monogamous). Contrast that with mainstream Christian marriages, which are only "until death do us part," or "as long as we both shall live."

So, like the AUB probably does have a process to recognize the dissolution of a relationship, but probably believe God considers the woman her ex-husband's property spouse, unless/until some other man owns her consummates his marriage to her.

I think that's somewhere between probable and likely, but we were never shown that on the show. There was some furor over the fact that Kody even kissed Robyn while they were dating.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. 

7 minutes ago, General Days said:

I think quiet quitting is exactly right.

I think Meri is still in love with Kody. I think she even had the emotional affair (that's what her side of the catfish scheme was, after all) because she is in love with him, and the legal divorce (and his growing love for Robin and her kids) hurt her so much. She was raised in this polygamy crap, so she thinks it can work, but it can't work when you are in love with your husband, but he's in love with one of his other "wives."

I do feel bad for Meri, even in her hypocrisy, because this is an awful way to live. I feel bad for the other women, too -- even Robyn.

I've started to think of these women like unwitting contestants on Survivor: outwit, outplay, outlast. Robyn's better at playing the game than the others, and Christine just figured out she doesn't have to play at all. Janelle suits up for games, but is happy riding the bench. Meri had a career-ending injury and refuses to accept it.

I started re-watching from the beginning after Robyn's ludicrous accusation that Christine was lying about their relationship (btw, I think Meri had it right, and Robyn didn't even understand what Christine said, and was responding to something Christine did not even say).

The writing was on the wall for how all four of these "marriages" would turn out, from season one. 

I think what happened to Christine, is that she'd never seen Kody fall in love before Robyn came along. I wish the show would cover their faith more -- especially Kody and Christine losing their religion.

Meri had seen Kody fall in love. Kody was in love with her once upon a time. You can still see remnants of his passion for her in the first couple of seasons. And that's why he is done with her now, because he's a narcissist, and can't accept that she was looking for something better.

Janelle can tolerate plural marriage, because she wasn't raised in this crap, and because she'd been previously married and divorced, and because while I believe she loved Kody (once), it wasn't that kind of all-consuming in-love love. When she married him, he was still in love with Meri. Their passion was a pre-established fact. Also, having six kids gave her perspective.

By the time Christine came along, Meri still wasn't pregnant, and I would bet some cash that her infertility and the friction between Meri and Janelle, had chipped away at some of Kody's enthusiasm for Meri, so Christine never had to watch him have intense feelings for someone (other than himself), until Robyn.

If there is one thing the cast of Sister Wives is not, that one thing is articulate.

Because Latter Day Saints have this concept of spiritual marriage, in which marriage is eternal, I think they believe that a couple is married in the sight of God, unless/until a new union is consummated (and in the cases of polygamists, only the woman must be monogamous). Contrast that with mainstream Christian marriages, which are only "until death do us part," or "as long as we both shall live."

So, like the AUB probably does have a process to recognize the dissolution of a relationship, but probably believe God considers the woman her ex-husband's property spouse, unless/until some other man owns her consummates his marriage to her.

I think that's somewhere between probable and likely, but we were never shown that on the show. There was some furor over the fact that Kody even kissed Robyn while they were dating.

[Jeanne222]

It’s kind of sad that Kody seems to care more about his three adopted children than he does for all of his natural children. 

That must sting. 

[General Days]

4 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

It’s kind of sad that Kody seems to care more about his three adopted children than he does for all of his natural children. 

That must sting. 

It's weird too, right? It's not like Robyn's first three came into his life as babies or even toddlers, so to see them utterly supplant his bio kids in his heart is bizarre -- especially the younger children of Janelle and Christine who are peers to Robyn's first three.

[crazycatlady58]

12 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

It’s kind of sad that Kody seems to care more about his three adopted children than he does for all of his natural children. 

That must sting. 

Caring more for one child than another hurts tremendously ( personal experience). Whether the other child is adopted or not has nothing to do with the pain.

[Kid]

16 hours ago, General Days said:

especially Kody and Christine losing their religion.

Wait, wait!  If Asshat lost his religion and if his religion was his justification for polygamy ("Isn't that conveeeeeenient?" as the Church Lady used to say) what is his justification now?

Edited November 12, 2022 by Kid

[GeeGolly]

My kids are in their 30s, if I was struggling with my marriage they would not know any of the details. Everything would be in global terms - growing apart, different priorities, etc. And I never would tell my kids I was leaving their dad until I was actually sure I was leaving.

Christine was telling some of the adult kids she was leaving Kody anywhere from 3 to 8 years prior to her leaving.  These are not her friends, these are her kids and Janelle's kids - their dad is Kody. I don't care how old they were, IMO, it was not cool.

[albarino]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Christine was telling some of the adult kids she was leaving Kody anywhere from 3 to 8 years prior to her leaving.  These are not her friends, these are her kids and Janelle's kids - their dad is Kody.

I hear what you are saying.  These are not her friends, well, yes.  Their Dad is Kody, well, no.  He is the fly-by co-star of a TLC reality show and he had no time or feelings for any of the non-Robins in his life.  

Kody yelling about his sacrifices in the previews makes me snort.  I so wish somebody would ask him to reiterate why they all ended up in Flagstaff.

[Adiba]

14 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

My kids are in their 30s, if I was struggling with my marriage they would not know any of the details. Everything would be in global terms - growing apart, different priorities, etc. And I never would tell my kids I was leaving their dad until I was actually sure I was leaving.

Christine was telling some of the adult kids she was leaving Kody anywhere from 3 to 8 years prior to her leaving.  These are not her friends, these are her kids and Janelle's kids - their dad is Kody. I don't care how old they were, IMO, it was not cool.

I agree that one should not use their kids as therapists or talk about the details of one's marriage woes. However, they overhear or eavesdrop on adult conversations (I know I did) and can definitely sense tension and sadness in their parents.

If I as an adult asked my mother if she was OK when I sensed she wasn't, I wouldn't take "I'm fine" as an answer. I know now to leave someone alone when they don't want to talk about something, but in my 20s and 30s I'd press the issue and question until I got some answers. Yeah, that wan't healthy but I was kind of a pushy PITA when it came to people I cared about.

The reason I sort of give Christine a pass is because I think she is still learning about boundaries and healthy relationships. Also, they ALL talk crap about each other in the TH on the show, which the kids can see or hear about later, anyway.

[Jeanne222]

Christine's marriage was on the rocks years and years.  Then Robyn came along and Christine got to witness what Kody and Robyn had and she had worked so hard to have.

I'm surprised she stayed this long but she was pretty busy raising Kodys kids all alone.

I feel so bad for her and all those wasted years.  Giving birth to Truly and watching Kody love another.  

I think he might have visited while they lived in Vegas but once they moved and Kody chose Robyn during Covid that was it.

There's always one final trigger in a dying marriage.  Was it Isables  surgery or Truly wanting to see her dad or the older girls in her ear about her deserving more.

They all lived that life.  They didn't need Christine to tell them anything!  

[Art Of Noiz]

17 hours ago, General Days said:

It's weird too, right? It's not like Robyn's first three came into his life as babies or even toddlers, so to see them utterly supplant his bio kids in his heart is bizarre -- especially the younger children of Janelle and Christine who are peers to Robyn's first three.

Gross thought,, but I'll share.

I wonder if Robyn's stepdad filmed her first 3's births. If so, maybe Robyn played them over and over and over for Kody until he believed he was there.

[Dobian]

I didn't even watch this episode, just read about it here and watched some YouTube commentary.  This show now promotes blatant abuse and I won't even hate-watch that.  I won't watch tomorrow either.  Sister Wives needs to go and TLC needs to stop thinking about their Nielsen numbers for once.  The whole premise of this series has been completely exposed as a sham and Kody, Robyn, and Meri are nothing but grifters.  Rotten people.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Dobian

[xwordfanatik]

2 hours ago, Art Of Noiz said:

Gross thought,, but I'll share.

I wonder if Robyn's stepdad filmed her first 3's births. If so, maybe Robyn played them over and over and over for Kody until he believed he was there.

It's IMO gross that he was even in the room for Aerosol and King Sol's births, taking "pitchers."  Ew.

I wouldn't be surprised if your 'wonder' happened, just the way you said it!  

[BAForever]

On 11/7/2022 at 9:34 AM, 65mickey said:

  I have never gotten the impression that Christine wanted her children to get out of the house at 18. 

Agree. I do think, however that Christine is a mom who is more comfortable/happy with younger kids than teens. I am certain that she loved her kids as teens, but her joy is them younger.

[Spazamanaz]

On 11/11/2022 at 12:34 PM, applewood said:

I said once before that they should have a spin off show with Janelle and Christine in Utah, dating, working, living their best life. Ironically, I even said the theme song should be Unwritten, the same song they sang at Y's grad party.

The Mary Tyler Moore TV show  theme song went through my head for a spin off show. Lol

[Tuxcat]

11 hours ago, Adiba said:

The reason I sort of give Christine a pass is because I think she is still learning about boundaries and healthy relationships. Also, they ALL talk crap about each other in the TH on the show, which the kids can see or hear about later, anyway.

Yes, they all talk crap about each other on the show, which the kids can see. Which begs the question. Why is Christine saying "the kids asked me first..." as some sort of defense?  That honestly makes zero sense to me. Okay, so they asked her first. Big deal. She has been talking on national television about her pain, her children's pain and her children's a** father for a while now. I'm not sure any psychologist would agree that this public unraveling is healthy for the family. She should stop offering any kind of explanation. It is what it is.

I'm happy for Christine. But she's still the same dramatic Christine. Whispery voice for serious discussion, one shoulder forward with a bit of bounce for added sass... The woman's an actress wannabe. It's hilarious to me that people say things like "there is no way she was shading other family members. she was always just sweet and kind..." It's just so hard to know who the real Christine is because she seems to be always performing.

Of course, I guess that is true for all of them.

But more power to her!...glad she's finally leaving the confines of this oppressive ideology. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Tuxcat

[Libby]

Christine had Kody and Robyn tag teaming her with the cameras rolling. Whatever Christine said to get through that conversation, I can’t blame her for. Who cares if it was truth, lies, or whatever. They were being brutal.

Also, she was beet red. That wasn't fake. Christine was very stressed out during that conversation.

I bet that all she kept thinking was "One more week".

That's what I'm thinking the whole time that I'm watching it. I keep saying to myself that she only has to deal with them for one more week.

They are unbearable.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Libby

[Tuxcat]

1 minute ago, Libby said:

Christine had Kody and Robyn tag teaming her with the cameras rolling. Whatever Christine said to get through that conversation, I can’t blame her for. Who cares if it was truth, lies, or whatever. They were being brutal.

I bet that all she kept thinking was "One more week".

That's what I'm thinking the whole time that I'm watching it. I keep saying to myself that she only has to deal with them for one more week.

They are unbearable.

To be fair...I'm not "blaming" her at all. Just pointing out evidence of the obvious. This is a "reality show," and what we are shown is often not at all reality.

[altopower]

10 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

This is a "reality show," and what we are shown is often not at all reality.

True for this show and most if not all of the other reality shows as well. I watch for entertainment, not truth.

[Adiba]

51 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Yes, they all talk crap about each other on the show, which the kids can see. Which begs the question. Why is Christine saying "the kids asked me first..." as some sort of defense?  That honestly makes zero sense to me. Okay, so they asked her first. Big deal. She has been talking on national television about her pain, her children's pain and her children's a** father for a while now. I'm not sure any psychologist would agree that this public unraveling is healthy for the family. She should stop offering any kind of explanation. It is what it is.

I'm happy for Christine. But she's still the same dramatic Christine. Whispery voice for serious discussion, one shoulder forward with a bit of bounce for added sass... The woman's an actress wannabe. It's hilarious to me that people say things like "there is no way she was shading other family members. she was always just sweet and kind..." It's just so hard to know who the real Christine is because she seems to be always performing.

Of course, I guess that is true for all of them.

But more power to her!...glad she's finally leaving the confines of this oppressive ideology. 

I understand what you’re saying, but I would add that being on a reality show of any kind is probably not healthy for children. All of the adult Browns bear responsibility for exposing their children and family life to the public for entertainment and scrutiny. 
I don’t think Christine is some sort of Mother Teresa, but I do think she has been a victim of emotional and psychological abuse by Kody. A victim doesn’t have to be perfect for me to cheer them on when they have finally left their abuser. And I think, all things considered, she’s doing it in a way that doesn’t intentionally harm people more than it already has.  Because if it were me, I have a hard time not going scorched earth on Kody’s ass.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Adiba
Wording

[Tuxcat]

22 minutes ago, Adiba said:

but I would add that being on a reality show of any kind is probably not healthy for children. All of the adult Browns bear responsibility for exposing their children and family life to the public for entertainment and scrutiny. 

22 minutes ago, Adiba said:

And I think, all things considered, she’s doing it in a way that doesn’t intentionally harm people more than it already has

I can cheer her on too. And I have no idea what I would actually do if I were in her situation.

But I have to think that I would seriously consider raising an objection when it came to airing the breakup of my marriage and family  on tv. Just because they are all doing it, doesn't excuse her from choosing to continue to do it.

Profiting from pain is never a good look especially when children are involved.

[GeeGolly]

I applaud Christine for getting out of her marriage. I would applaud Janelle and Meri for getting out of their marriages too. But Janelle would still be Janelle and Meri would still be Meri and Christine is still Christine.

[TurtlePower]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I applaud Christine for getting out of her marriage. I would applaud Janelle and Meri for getting out of their marriages too. But Janelle would still be Janelle and Meri would still be Meri and Christine is still Christine.

Their personalities are key. Meri knows she messed up and wants to fix it — she’s like superglue and won’t let go. Janelle is just “meh” and seems to be okay with how things are. I don’t buy into the reports that she’s left Kody, they don’t spend much time together anyways and Janelle seems content with that.

Christine tried to make it work for the family and played the role, but was tired of it not earning her status with Kody. She knew it was over when Kody didn’t want to install the door on the bedroom and refused her a more intimate relationship. At that point, it was too much for her to bear.
On a similar note, Kody’s done the same thing with Meri, yet her personality tells her to stay in a place she’s not wanted. I will never understand that. To me that’s like your ex (who’s now kinda like a stalker) telling you that one day, you’ll learn to love them again. It’s creepy and weird. 

[ladle]

On 11/6/2022 at 11:53 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I realize this shouldn’t be funny, but I couldn’t help but laugh tonight.

There were so many unintentionally hilarious moments in this episode. Jenelle saying "Yay!" about Christine's house, and Kody replying, bewildered, "What do you mean 'yay'??" Just his delivery of that line had me howling. Then Robyn implicating Jenelle in the discussion of who was in a happy marriage in Vegas -- quick cut to Jenelle in a TH saying "I want no part of this conversation." LOL. And then the previews where Kody is stomping and bloviating like a character in a Tennessee Williams play. 10/10 would watch again.