S02.E11: Doll Parts

[Chaos Theory]

 

With Nolan searching for Irisa, Amanda is forced to take on the badge as Deputy when the shocking murder of one of their own rocks Defiance.

[mustbekarma]

Shatko! This is the second time this week that a thunderstorm interrupted my satellite, and I missed the last ten minutes of my show. Christie was just describing the fight between her and Treasure Doll. I'm so glad Christie defended herself. Treasure Doll tried to poison the baby, so I was actually kind of thrilled she got thrown out of a window. What happened after that? My satellite cut out just when Christie was going to tell Alak something, and I probably missed a really good scene. Darnit.

 

Oh, Amanda, you may not want to tell an unstable woman to fight for her man. I think Amanda just gave the worst advice ever.

 

Stahma laughing delightedly when she realized it had to be Christie that killed Treasure Doll. Hell, why didn't Christie just tell her what happened? Since it was basically self-defense, Christie shouldn't have feel ashamed to enlist Stahma's aid.

 

Kudos to Stahma for wanting to off Treasure Doll herself, refusing Datak's price, and giving Alak a verbal bitch-slap.

 

Speaking of bitch-slaps, thank you, Pilar, for smacking some sense into your son. I was so pissed at him for letting Rafe take the blame. I just want to see Pilar and Stahma as allies, kicking ass, and not bothering to take any names.

[Chaos Theory]

Amanda Rosewater:  Mayor,  Madam.  Lawkeeper.   I hear a theme song in my head.

 

The Stahmafication of Christie is complete.  Alak I know they say boys marry their mother but dude,  you took it to a new level.   Stahma looked strangely proud of her daughter-in-law.  At least SOMEONE is acting like a Castithan.

 

Speaking of Stahma.  Her to do list must look something like this:   Murder some people.  Frame some people.  Food Walk.

 

oooh and we get a double dose next week too.  <Doing the happy dance>

Edited August 22, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[mustbekarma]

Speaking of Stahma.  Her to do list must look something like this:   Murder some people.  Frame some people.  Food Walk.

 

Don't forget, "get a new handmaiden." Boy, Stahma sure knows how to multitask.

[wanderingstar]

Does anyone know who was covering "Doll Parts" at the end of this episode?

 

I want to bottle the look on Alak's face after Christy confessed to him. Kind of like I want to bottle Alak's awkward laugh.

 

So, it looks like the Kaziri tech only affects Votans (that scene of Tommy rejecting it was gross, but I was riveted).

 

Enjoyed the hell out of Stahma and Datak in this ep. He always looks proud when he realizes the depths of Stahma's treachery.

[maczero]

A lot seemed off about this episode.

 

The advice Amanda was doling out to Treasure Doll was seriously off.  "Fight for your man.  Even if he has a wife and doesn't love you."  Yeah, you should feel bad about that one.

 

Was it me or did it look like the actor who plays Nolan was seriously out of shape?  I mean it looked like he had a sizable beer gut.

 

Also, the fight scene between Nolan and Sukar was horrible. 

 

The Good Stuff:

 

Christie coming into her own was awesome.  Also, liked how proud Stahma was.

 

Tommy and Nolan hashed things out and Nolan admitted he was in the wrong.

Don't forget, "get a new handmaiden." Boy, Stahma sure knows how to multitask.

Hopefully this one won't have to perform all the same duties as the last one.

[johntfs]

 

Stahma laughing delightedly when she realized it had to be Christie that killed Treasure Doll. Hell, why didn't Christie just tell her what happened? Since it was basically self-defense, Christie shouldn't have feel ashamed to enlist Stahma's aid.

 

But that's the problem, she was ashamed.  TD had been playing her for weeks while manipulating Christie into damaging her marriage, boning her husband and plotting to murder her baby.  Christie didn't want to admit her mistakes to someone she admired, like Stahma.

 

I'm kind of looking forward to Stahma giving Christie the bathhug of happiness.

 

I feel a little scared for the new handmaiden considering what happened to the old one.

[GoddessofFolly]

Shatko! This is the second time this week that a thunderstorm interrupted my satellite, and I missed the last ten minutes of my show. Christie was just describing the fight between her and Treasure Doll. I'm so glad Christie defended herself. Treasure Doll tried to poison the baby, so I was actually kind of thrilled she got thrown out of a window. What happened after that? My satellite cut out just when Christie was going to tell Alak something, and I probably missed a really good scene. Darnit.

She told him that she understands that he has needs, but he can never put their baby at risk again.  Then she smiles and tells him that he should join her in the bathm because it's unseemly for a Castithan woman to bathe alone.

 

Nolan and Tommy were driving the unconscious Irissa.  They were making peace and Nolan offered to work together with Tommy when all this was over.  Just then the roller kind of exploded.  Irissa had done it.  She knocked out Nolan and stabbed Tommy.  The little girl that she sees told her to kill Nolan, too, but she refused and took off.  Nolan came to and saw Tommy seriously injured.  The last scenes with them were of Nolan dragging Tommy's barely-alive body presumably to find help.

 

Amanda was outside the Tarr's house when the daughter of the dying man arrived to be their handmaiden.  She and Stahma made "knowing" eye contact and it was obvious that Amanda had figured out what was going on.

 

Storm interuptions to satellite are the worst.

[Chaos Theory]

The advice Amanda was doling out to Treasure Doll was seriously off.  "Fight for your man.  Even if he has a wife and doesn't love you."  Yeah, you should feel bad about that one.

 

 

Amansa didn't know it was Alak.  If she did the advise MIGHT have been different.  She got drips and drabs from Treasure Doll;  starting with I" found a man who really loves me".....to "he left me for HER".  I don't think she ever got the full story or any names.   I did however like her advise as it pertains to Nolan and the season 1 triangle that the show acknowledged.   Nolan was with Kenya which made him off limits and even after things ended between her sister and Nolan Amanda regretted never making her play for him.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[thuganomics85]

Not sure what my favorite reaction shot was tonight: Stahma's face and laughter, when it finally dawned on her that Christie did it, or Alak's "Holy shit!  What did I get myself into?!" reaction, when Christie confessed and just put it all out on the table.  If someone told me during last season that Christie would be not only scaring the crap out of Alak, but impressing Stahma, I would have thought they were off their rocker.  But, nope.  Christie ain't fucking around.

 

That said, I'm not sure what they were going for, but if all that stuff between Amanda and Deidre was suppose to make me feel anything for Deidre, it didn't work.  As far as I'm concerned, Deidre was an awful person, who kind of deserved it.  She tried to poison Christie and kill her child?  And, even then, Christie was going to walk away, but Deidre came after her.  Yeah, if anything, she should count her blessings she got a quick death (well, I'm sure those seconds of falling sucked, but still.)  When Amanda said you need to fight, I don't think baby-killing was what she had in mind, Deidre.  Of course, since Stahma has covered it up, Amanda now thinks they just flat-out murdered her.  Have a feeling Amanda vs. Stahma is going to happen next week.

 

Irisa's seems to have pretty much gone off the deep-end, now.  She still can't bring herself to kill Nolan, at least, but had no problems shanking poor Tommy.  Glad that Nolan is at least trying to drag his ass back, but that wound looked pretty rough. Curious about him throwing up the tech at the beginning.  Does it not work on humans?  But, it sounds like whatever Irisa and the gang are planning is going to involve a lot of human deaths, so this can't be good.

[sjohnson]

Nolan telling Tommy he respected him gave me a good belly laugh. I know we were supposed to take that seriously but I just couldn't. Much funnier than Berlin shoving her boobs into Nolan's face. Not that she was hanging on that line for any other reason. By the way, maybe it's just me, but when the tourist sheriff has to warn the professional miners to run? I don't think it makes the hero look better. I just think it makes the show look too cheap to hire another actor with lines. 

 

Show slipped into an idiot plot by having the (temporary) villain Irisa rant about their dastardly plan to the stalwart hero. Nolan would never have figured it out on his own. I was rather amused that his plan involved leaving the terrasphere bomb thingy with crazed cultists! I wonder how he knew they'd get out of any possible blast radius? 

 

Christy putting the microphone under Alak's bed was very confusing, because I couldn't assume that they slept in the same bed, or even the same room. The pool is where they have sex, right?

 

Since nothing we've seen Pottinger do is that so much more monstrous than others do, even some of the heroes, his confession must mean something sexual. Since there are no other people in the world, that means Pottinger was the rapist in New York. I guess that the reported crush on Lang never really happened, but it was really on Amanda. Obviously neither mental illness nor Indogene experiments remove culpability in the smallest degree, so he is doomed to die. Amanda I think is supposed to realize that Pottinger is honest with her but is somehow going to be more attracted. Until she wises up and submits to the True Love Nolan, she will be ineffective or destructive (as she was in her advice to whozis.) I think the show wants her to feel guilty about that and foolishly compensate with Pottinger. As for Pottinger wanting to die first to save her, not even Pottinger can stand Pottinger so it doesn't count for anything really. But silly girls can mistake that for love, no?

 

The degradation of Berlin made it pretty clear the show didn't hold with the "happy cowboy" speech. When Irisia said that about how sick it was that she loved Nolan for killing her parents, and how he taught her to kill, etc. the thing is, it's true. I suppose that having crazy Irisa stab Tommy was to show she was not herself and therefore what she said is a lie, though, so I guess it's all just really intense melodrama instead of a moment of truth.

[BungalowSummer]

But, it sounds like whatever Irisa and the gang are planning is going to involve a lot of human deaths, so this can't be good.

It looks like the Kaziri Arkbrain is intent on fulfilling its original programming: make Earth fit for Votans by wiping out everyone and repopulating exclusively with the chosen ones from the Votan species. They're the ones, including Bertie, who are now aboard encased in pods.

Somehow, Irisa will have to remember and understand those visions of herself and Mordecai taking over the ship. In one of them, she said that Irzu valued all life; clearly they scuttled the ship rather than commit genocide by terraforming Earth. Or maybe I've got it all wrong and the ship scuttled itself because Irisa and Cai didn't want to stop the terraforming. Stupid nanites.

When Irisia said that about how sick it was that she loved Nolan for killing her parents, and how he taught her to kill, etc. the thing is, it's true.

I'm with Nolan on this. I don't think Irisa loved Nolan for killing her parents. I think she was grateful for killing them. She loved him for taking care of her, protecting her, loving her and teaching her what she needed to know in a deadly dangerous world. Which is what he did. It's miserable for Irisa to know that her parents were deluded cultists who were happy to see her abused and tortured by a deviant Casti guru, but Arkbrained Irisa's new viewpoint is certainly suspect.

Edited August 22, 2014 by BungalowSummer

[Izeinwinter]

The bit with Tommy conveniently vomiting up the arkbrain infestation is suspect as hell. There was no triggering event for that to happen at that precise moment. If Nolan had tazered Tommy or something, that would be one thing, but the chain of events as shown only really make sense if the Kaziri let him go, and.. Uhm.. what the heck is it trying to accomplish?

[Grammaeryn]

Man, Defiance is so much better this season! Of the two episodes, I liked Doll Parts better (probably swayed by the awesome cover). As a madam, wouldn't it be bad to lose a night porter to a client by marriage/running away? So yeah, I need to blame alcohol and adreeno for that crap Amanda advice. I just love the Tarr family so much the entire 42 minutes could just be them eating roast beast and I would be entertained.

 

I'm kinda with sjohnson on the horrible accusations Arkbrain Irisa hurled at Nolan. It's probably stuff Irisa questioned internally but viewed from an outside Votan perspective, Nolan did break her and turn her into a killer. So in that sense, it is true. And as an audience member, I could see their backstory being twisted and effed up, if I just ignore Nolan. 

[transgojobot]

"Tishinkaaaaah~! Hee-hee!"

 

Oh, man. That entire scene in the arc with Christie and Deidre was just terrible. Why did the show try so hard to make me care about a character that I couldn't give two shatko about? I kept waiting for someone to break character and start laughing at the absurdity of all of it. Kinda of like Nolan did in front of Sukar. 

[GaT]

Way to go Christie! After being doormat Christie for so long, it's nice to see her fighting. I bet her value has gone up tons in Stahma's (& probably Datak too) opinion. But I'm still not sure why she put the mic under Alak's bed, was she counting on Stahma getting him out of jail & just wanted him to suffer a while?

[MDKNIGHT]

Since it was basically self-defense, Christie shouldn't have feel ashamed to enlist Stahma's aid.

 

Maybe she's a Machiavellian genius and she DID enlist Stahmas' aid.  What if she wasn't sure Stahma would help HER but WAS sure Stahma would help Alak so she planted the murder weapon on Alak because she knew Stahma would handle the problem.  She might have also wanted him to squirm a little because he DID cheat on her. 

 

I thought the bath scene where Christie told Alak that she is a true Casti woman was creepy and although I think she acted mostly in self defense that she is mentally ill.  She is going Single White Female on Stahma and it is NOT a sign of good health.  Christie's mother was mentally ill.  It is possible that Christie is also.  The baby hormones may not be helping either.  I do find her a hell of a lot more interesting now.

 

BTW did everybody notice they recycled a subplot from Veronica Mars in that the rich family thinks their son murdered someone but he didn't but because they thought he had (they thought Duncan murdered Lily Kane) they paid a dieing guy to take the rap and he agreed so his daughter would be set financially. On VM though things didn't work out for her because she got killed by a serial killer.  Hope this chick has better luck.

Edited August 22, 2014 by MDKNIGHT

[madfortv]

Even if they sleep in the same bed, given the class society, maybe the room is still referred to as Alak's.

 

I was surprised that Stahma thought Alak should have kept his vows of fidelity.

[Chaos Theory]

I was surprised that Stahma thought Alak should have kept his vows of fidelity.

She thought he was stupid for making a human vow of fidelity but because he made it he was expected to keep it. What is actually surprising is that of the two Christy is actually more Castithian. What is most surprising of all is how interesting the pair has been this season. Go them!

Edited August 22, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[Ottis]

Speaking of Stahma.  Her to do list must look something like this:   Murder some people.  Frame some people.  Food Walk.

 

 

Yes, we got the old Stahma back tonight, the one who cooly figures out how to move the chess pieces to get what she wants, and still fits in charity (and uses that as well). Better hope nothing shows up that inexplicably freaks her out again, as she did when Not!Kenya showed up.  

 

Glad that Nolan is at least trying to drag his ass back, but that wound looked pretty rough.

 

 

How come Nolan didn't just put Tommy in the roller and drive away? Was the roller damaged? I may have turned away and missed something.

[BungalowSummer]

Arkbrained Irisa shorted out the roller. I tell you, they better not kill off Tommy. And he finally got Nolan to eat some humble pie, too.

[Cardie]

Arkbrained Irisa shorted out the roller. I tell you, they better not kill off Tommy. And he finally got Nolan to eat some humble pie, too.

It was because Nolan and Tommy had talked things out and Tommy now knew he had Nolan's respect that I expected him to die outright. Leaving his fate pending gives me some hope he'll survive. Both Christie and Tommy are becoming more interesting, complex characters but the actors playing them haven't really kept up.

[BungalowSummer]

Both Christie and Tommy are becoming more interesting, complex characters but the actors playing them haven't really kept up.

I've felt that the actor playing Tommy, Dewshane Williams, has been shortchanged by the writers with his dialogue. He's had a difficult role to flesh out: he's the Everyman in the show, the basically decent, honest guy with heart but little imagination about the dark side. He's a sweet guy surrounded by connivers, murderers, thieves and sociopaths. I will always love him for his incredulous tone when he asked Irisa, "What is wrong with you?" in the pilot.

[maczero]

Amansa didn't know it was Alak.  If she did the advise MIGHT have been different.  She got drips and drabs from Treasure Doll;  starting with I" found a man who really loves me".....to "he left me for HER".  I don't think she ever got the full story or any names.   I did however like her advise as it pertains to Nolan and the season 1 triangle that the show acknowledged.   Nolan was with Kenya which made him off limits and even after things ended between her sister and Nolan Amanda regretted never making her play for him.

I get that Amanda didn't know that it was Alak but she did know this guy had another woman and chose to stick with said woman.  Amanda's advice was keep trying even though the guy has already made a decision.  That's why I consider it horrible advice.

[MDKNIGHT]

There was a moment when Christie was in the bath and asked Alak to join her since she's a Castithan woman that I was temporarily transported into a Horror Movie where suddenly her eyes would turn Castithan white and they'd fade to black.  That's not bad for a couple of characters who were initially as interesting as dish water. 

 

I didn't like Alak cheating on Christie but I kind of felt sorry for him this ep because the dude is a Psycho Chick Magnet.  Not his fault he was born to Stahma who if there is any justice will be added to the top 100 tv villains of all time but he married Christie who now has a shot of becoming the Michael Corleone of the show (i.e. initially not wanting to be part of the mafia but winding up being Don) and he slept with Treasure Doll who was something straight out of Fatal Attraction.  Seriously how does the dude do it?  He's lucky Lizzy Borden and Lucretia Borgia are dead or they'd be his next 2 mistresses.

 

I missed the first part of this episode.  Were they clear on the nature of the relationship between Amanda and Treasure Doll?  Were they just friends? because Amanda seemed particularly driven to solve her murder.  I mean I know she worked for Amanda but was there something else or was Amanda just still feeling the loss of Kenya?  Or were they lovers?  I didn't get that impression since Treasure Doll was so animated about talking to Amanda about her secret lover.  Speaking of THAT issue...TD was delusional.  I get a hooker fooling herself into thinking a guy wants her as a mistress but can anybody here who has seen Alak or Datak operate gotten the impression that either of those mooks would even PRETEND to love a hooker and even promise to leave thier wife for them?  Do they ever seem like that is how they roll?  And then trying to kill the Tar baby (hee just thought about Uncle Remess)?  Like WTF?  Was she STONED?  It would have been a contest to see who offed her first if that had happened.  Hell RANDOM people would have wanted her dead on principle alone.  I kind of "got" Treasure Doll's ruthlessness, given what we know of her background, but this plan was psychotic, not ruthless. 

[CoderLady]

When has "I'll just kill my rival who he really loves, then he'll have to love me" ever worked?

[RealityGal]

When has "I'll just kill my rival who he really loves, then he'll have to love me" ever worked?

I don't think the plan was to kill Christie.  I think the plan, as far as I could tell, was to get her to drink the poison, masked in the fruit juice, and have a miscarriage that would look like an accident, or a natural miscarriage.  Then Alak, who I think may have said something to Deidre about how, the only reason he was with Christie was because of the child, would drop Christie, and be with her.

 

That seems to me, what her plan was at least.  The miscarriage part might have worked too, if Christie didn't have the heightened sense of smell.

Edited August 22, 2014 by RealityGal

[sjohnson]

I'm kinda with sjohnson on the horrible accusations Arkbrain Irisa hurled at Nolan. It's probably stuff Irisa questioned internally but viewed from an outside Votan perspective, Nolan did break her and turn her into a killer. So in that sense, it is true. And as an audience member, I could see their backstory being twisted and effed up, if I just ignore Nolan. 

I do want to clarify that I'm agreeing that the accusations against Nolan are true, not the accusations against humanity. It's not so much that humanity hasn't got a lot to ashamed of by its own standards but that if the remedy for humanity's abuses are to be someone else taking over, you have to make their case for being better. It's Nolan who's really dodgy. Sorry, I dont think "live together, die together" is a straightforward avowal of healthy love. The guy has known how long that there's some kind of tech infesting her and has kept it a secret...Why? At some level he wants her to himself, doesn't want people interfering. By the way, obviously there are positive aspects to Nolan's father. But when the negative has been unacknowledged for so long, despite so much, I think demanding yet more gratitude serves as an escape from facing all the truth, the opposite of what it professes. How could Nolan not have thought at some point, if I find adoptive parents, she won't have to love the man who killed her original parents?

 

I would like to think that it's Irisa's combination of suppressed rage against Nolan and her Nolan-taught ruthlessness that are driving the awakened Kaziri toward a genocidal (for humanity) Arkrise. The flashbacks we've seen seem to show pre-incarnated Irisia and Robin Dunne wrecking the ship to prevent terraforming that would have extincted humanity, not the opposite. Also, it's hard to envision the Robin Dunne Jewish-Irathient lawyer as getting on board the annihilation of humanity. When the Irzu persona wants Irisa to kill Nolan, she's trying to get rid of the guy who's making Irisa crazy so all this genocide crap will stop! I guess in a sense it would reduce all the hooraw to yet another personal conflict but it's not like the show would be using the time for much else.

[Chaos Theory]

I get that Amanda didn't know that it was Alak but she did know this guy had another woman and chose to stick with said woman.  Amanda's advice was keep trying even though the guy has already made a decision.  That's why I consider it horrible advice.

 

 

I am not saying it was good advice.  Just honest advise.  Have you ever given a friend truly horrible advice that came from the heart?  You didn't know it was horrible advice at the time?  Maybe you were drunk.  Maybe you didn't have all the facts.  Maybe the advice sounded good at the time but in retrospect....not so good.  All those things could be attributed to the advice Amanda gave to Treasure Doll; truly bad advice that came from the heart.  

 

I don't think the plan was to kill Christie.  I think the plan, as far as I could tell, was to get her to drink the poison, masked in the fruit juice, and have a miscarriage that would look like an accident, or a natural miscarriage.

 

 

Alak may have said something along the lines of; I am not going to leave my wife and child for you.  Treasure Doll may have inferred that if Christy lost the baby then she would be on a more even playing field.  What does Christy have that I don't have?.....she's caring his child.   She never intended to kill Christy....just the brat in her belly.   

Edited August 22, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[MDKNIGHT]

Also, it's hard to envision the Robin Dunne Jewish-Irathient lawyer as getting on board the annihilation of humanity.

 

I'm going out on a limb and guessing that the guy raised by a Jewish HUMAN mother is not going to be humming merrily while commiting genocide (due to a combo of horror at the concept of genocide given WWII and the little thing called Jewish GUILT) especially if his Mommy is still alive and it would mean she'd die too. (Which I don't know if she is, but she may be.)  I kind of want to see his expression when this comes up. 

 

To be fair to Nolan I think he adopted Irisa out of love and I'm not sure you could expect him to hand her over to unknown Irathians after what he saw with the wierd cult.  What's his name the big Irath who calls Irisa little wolf is sure a true believer and I wouldn't expect a human who has been fighting aliens to trust the religion of an alien culture especially right after busting a cult tha tortures kids.  He might have thought other Irathians couldn't be trusted witht he girl and might do the same thing they had already done to her.  So given the situation the only way he could be sure she wouldn't be tortured again would be to raise her himself.  And I don't get why teaching someone to use a knife in THAT culture/world is so evil.  Should she be defenseless in such a world?  There are giant beasties that eat people all over and scavengers willing to slit your throat for loot. 

 

The acusations against humanity are hypocritical unless we get proof that the Votans were so much better.  They certainly don't seem morally better as there is a subsection that  cheat lie murder etc like there is a subsection of humans that do those things.  The only big difference between them and us is they had more advanced tech. 

[johntfs]

 

Were they clear on the nature of the relationship between Amanda and Treasure Doll?  Were they just friends? because Amanda seemed particularly driven to solve her murder.

 

It seemed pretty clear to me that Treasure doll was Amanda's surrogate little sister.  TD was Amanda's Kenya since Kenya was gone.

[Chaos Theory]

Were they clear on the nature of the relationship between Amanda and Treasure Doll?  Were they just friends? because Amanda seemed particularly driven to solve her murder

 

 

Through flashbacks it was revealed that Treasure Doll and Amanda got kinda close after Kenya "left town".  Treasure Doll kinda convinced Amanda to keep the Need/Want going.  Besides that they talked on occasion.  They were friends they way people who work at the same place are friends.  

[MDKNIGHT]

I think Amanda seeing the poor girl being taken in to the Tarr home after her dad made the confession had given her a reason to start suspecting Stahma had something to do with Kenya's death. I think it showed on Amanda's face. 

 

I always like seeing Linda Hamilton and whatever her deal is she isn't totally evil because she at least told her son he was wrong to harm his father.  Then  again she MAY be like stahma i.e. loyal to family but a danger to somebody else.  I hope she's smart enough to be able to deal with Stahma if it becomes necessary OTOH I'm not sure what I would enjoy more  Sarah Conner and Stahma fighting each other as ruthlessly efficient mother's protecting their young or for them to hook up. 

 

Is Daytak accepting Stahma having sex with women now because he made the joke about how she should try out Treasure Doll.  I thought it was hysterical Stahma countered by pointing out she'd snap her like a twig. 

Edited August 23, 2014 by MDKNIGHT

[Mabinogia]

The acusations against humanity are hypocritical unless we get proof that the Votans were so much better.  They certainly don't seem morally better as there is a subsection that  cheat lie murder etc like there is a subsection of humans that do those things.  The only big difference between them and us is they had more advanced tech.

 

 

I can't buy that any race of beings that thinks that total annihilation of another race of beings is justified can possibly be better than those they are destroying. So yep, totally hypocritical. I'm sure, just like humans, there are good and bad Votans so I wouldn't think destroying all Votans would be the answer either. But then, no sentient beings seem able to live in harmony with different beings so I suppose someone has to go. What I like about Defiance is, at least they are trying to find harmony and compromise. I kind of want more focus on that than on all this Big Bad mythology. Though I suppose the Big Bad is going to bring them all together so...

 

I agree that Amanda adopted Treasure Doll as her new little sister because I think about 90% of Amanda's view of herself is as a protector, be it of Kendra when they were kids, Defiance in her role as mayor for ten minutes, or as Madame of the Need/Want. I wonder if TD reminded her of her own childhood, struggling to survive.

 

I think her advice was extremely misguided but she also was only given part of the story and it was very clouded by Amanda's own situation. I feel like she was giving that advice more to her past self than to TD. But man did it ever blow up in her face. Though I can't believe for a second that Amanda ever would have imagined her advice meant murder a baby. I mean, there's a difference between fighting for true love and killing unborn children...well, in most people's minds anyway.

 

Is Daytak accepting Stahma having sex with women now because he made the joke about how she should try out Treasure Doll.  I thought it was hysterical Stahma countered by pointing out she'd snap her like a twig.

 

 

I love these two way more in their current antagonistic relationship than I ever did before. I always was slightly uncomfortable with how subservient Stahma was to Datak (since I think she is way scarier, way smarter and way more interesting than him) but I love that she can and will snark back at him. And yes, she would have snapped TD like a twig...if Christy hadn't gotten to her first. LOL

 

I actually really like the way the show handled TD's death. I honestly didn't see it being Christy even though we all were talking about it being her long before this ep. I was kept guessing. It was so obviously Stahma...now wait, OMG it was Datak...wow, was it really Alak...OMG it was Christy!!!!! And they did it in a very believable way because while I can't buy Christy being at the point yet where she would have killed Doll in cold blood, I do buy 100% that she would do it to protect her baby. Good job show.

 

Irisa's story...yawn. IDK why but I just don't find it interesting or compelling at all even though it is really quite epic.

[BungalowSummer]

 

Irisa's story...yawn. IDK why but I just don't find it interesting or compelling at all even though it is really quite epic.

 

Yes, it is epic. If I can fault this season for anything, it is that the writers have been slow to provide information and progress on Irisa's story. They've had a lot of balls in the air: the Tarr family sitcom, Christie's adventures in Casti Kulture, Amanda's roller-coaster ride, Pottinger's schemes and the E-Rep, Rafe & Datak's weird alliance. Since last season's finale, though, Irisa's recruitment into "Irzu's" plan (actually the Kaziri's programming) is the most important story because of its potential impact on everyone. It's taken so long to get the few meager clues we've gotten as to what's happening and why.

 

I have a good idea of what's coming from watching the sneak peek for the finale and I am very excited to see it. As much as I love the Tarrs and their crazy relationships, the heart of Defiance for me is still Irisa and Nolan's relationship. I would have liked to see more of Irisa's struggle to understand and resist the Irzu nanotech. Her story suffered because the writers didn't sufficiently tease what the stakes are for Irisa, Nolan and Defiance throughout the season.

[Mabinogia]

Since last season's finale, though, Irisa's recruitment into "Irzu's" plan (actually the Kaziri's programming) is the most important story because of its potential impact on everyone. It's taken so long to get the few meager clues we've gotten as to what's happening and why.

 

 

It does seem like this story has been simmering on the back burner for a while and yet, you're right, it is the most important story for the reason you stated. It will impact EVERYONE.

 

I agree with you too, that the show didn't really reveal soon enough what the stakes were so, to be honest, I wasn't paying much attention. Admittedly, Irisa is not a character I pay much attention to anyway, so I zoned out through much of this story and now I'm like, well, shit, this was important? Wish I'd know that much sooner. Ah, well, I'll get interested when my characters get more involved I guess, and I'll just come here to try to figure out all the stuff I missed. lol

 

It was an odd slight of hand on the writers part, putting all the fun stuff into the Tarr storyline, giving all this character stuff to Amanda, getting Nolan laid again, all the Treasure Doll distraction and little bits of "oh, yeah, and Irisa is building an army that you will find out is going to try to eliminate human life on Earth, but don't mind that, look, Pottinger is a creeping creeper who peeps.

[Black Knight]

Well, I for one am grateful that the writers left the Irisa/Irzu story on the backburner all season. Supposedly the stakes are super-important, but? The plan is going to fail; they're not going to kill off everyone but Irisa and her merry band and have next season be all about them terraforming Earth. So even though in theory the stakes are the highest of anything on this show, in reality the stakes are actually the lowest because there is no chance that it will actually happen.

 

Other stories on the show theoretically have lower stakes, but in reality their stakes are higher. I can't be sure how Christie turning into Stahma, Amanda going to war with Stahma, Pottinger's plans, or Datak's efforts to regain his power base are going to turn out. This Irzu storyline? Irisa will face off with Nolan again, he'll be able to break through to her this time, and she'll stop this plan at the last second possible and, shocker, The World Will Be Saved. It's all so very predictable and cliched. I don't blame the writers for not spending more time on it than necessary. My guess is that they felt kind of stuck because this started back in S1, and while they were able to dump the CotW format pretty easily, they had to finish this storyline. But once the predictable conclusion has been reached, with no real consequences involved, I'll be surprised if it ever even gets referenced again. Next season will continue to heavily focus on the Tarrs, and the big conflict will be the Votanis Collective vs. E-Rep. Things for which there can actually be real consequences, because those real consequences wouldn't involve the destruction of the entire show.

[Hanahope]

I love seeing Christie slowly turning into Stahma.  I was a bit surprised at first that Christie went so 'gung-ho' Casti, I always thought one of the main things Alak liked about her was that she wasn't Cast. But maybe subconsciously he just didn't want a subservient wife, he needed someone to boss him around so he liked Christie's more human independence.  Now, of course, seeing that his mother could be a boss too, it is a bit more obvious that Alak has married his mother, especially because Christie is bound and determined to become as much Casti as possible.  She may have initially done it because she wanted to please his parents, but I think she too is realizing that Stahma is a strong and respected woman and she could be like her.  Christie is certainly on the path, already taking her first kill as a necessary one, as Stahma did.  Was fun seeing Stahma and Datak come to that realization.

 

I think Christie put the microphone under Alak's bed not to frame him but to subtly let him know who had killed Doll.  When that didn't work (because the handmaiden found it first), she then put the poison bottle out.

 

I liked Stahma finding a solution to having someone confess to the murder, a sick man who was going to die and she got to replace the dead handmaiden at the same time.  Woman knows how to problem-solve.  I don't have any fear for the girl, the other handmaiden didn't die because of the Tarr's, she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time for the doctor who wanted Casti eyes.

 

Funny how Pottinger is getting what he wants, Amanda closer to him, without having to be devious and set something up.

 

Can't wait to see Linda Hamilton chew up the scenery.

[sjohnson]

If Christie and Alak sleep in the same bed, she hid the microphone under her own bed, which doesn't seem very sensible. But I don't agree that she was trying to confront Alak, because I doubt she had any thought of him ever looking under the bed. If they don't, she was trying to frame Alak, but that doesn't jibe with the relatively rapid forgiveness. I'm not quite sure if Christie is supposed to realize that whozis had been dumped by Alak already, which is why the woman was so desperate as to poison Christie's baby?

[shapeshifter]

...I want to bottle the look on Alak's face after Christy confessed to him....

I know! I really did LOL. But it wasn't just his realization that she took care of the Treasure Doll problem, it was her spouting Casti party line about it being unseemly for a Casti woman to bathe alone. Didn't his mom tell him that too? Dude. You have so married your mother. And clearly Christie picked up a few pointers from her own dear old dad too.

...Was it me or did it look like the actor who plays Nolan was seriously out of shape?  I mean it looked like he had a sizable beer gut....

I don't know about it being from beer, but, yeah, where is the girdle Bill Shatner wore as Captain Kirk when you need it?

...Hopefully this one won't have to perform all the same duties as the last one.

...I feel a little scared for the new handmaiden considering what happened to the old one.

I was so expecting her to make eyes at Alak as she walked across the threshold. Anyone want to take bets on that soap opera for next season?

Way to go Christie! After being doormat Christie for so long, it's nice to see her fighting. I bet her value has gone up tons in Stahma's (& probably Datak too) opinion. But I'm still not sure why she put the mic under Alak's bed, was she counting on Stahma getting him out of jail & just wanted him to suffer a while?

Good point and another instance of showing how Christie's thinking is now in sync with Stahma's.

[sjohnson]

I'm pretty sure that if the microphone had been found by Amanda, Alak would still be in jail.

[shapeshifter]

I'm pretty sure that if the microphone had been found by Amanda, Alak would still be in jail.

It would have just been a little harder to prove his innocence because they would have had to catch someone who framed him.

[wanderingstar]

I firmly believe that Christy placed that mic where she did so Alak could squirm for a bit. So, yeah - she is basically Stahma's mini-me.

[susan vance]

I loved this episode. I feel like the second season of Defiance has taken all of the characters and shown them to be more complicated and interesting than they were in the first season, but none more than Alak and Christie, who I found incredibly boring in the first season but are now incredibly compelling. 

 

The confrontation between Nolan and Irisa was stomach-turning. Nolan's character is often so one-note (dashing, forget-the-rules, wisecracking guy on the right side of justice) that those rare moments where you see his truer self shine through are really powerful. His countering Irisa's accusations with "I never said that!" made it clear that he must have thought it once or twice - and his panicked guilt over that was devastating. I don't doubt Nolan's love for Irisa, or hers for him, but I like that the show hasn't shied away from the fact that they're both broken, difficult people. 

[shapeshifter]

The confrontation between Nolan and Irisa was stomach-turning. Nolan's character is often so one-note (dashing, forget-the-rules, wisecracking guy on the right side of justice) that those rare moments where you see his truer self shine through are really powerful. His countering Irisa's accusations with "I never said that!" made it clear that he must have thought it once or twice - and his panicked guilt over that was devastating. I don't doubt Nolan's love for Irisa, or hers for him, but I like that the show hasn't shied away from the fact that they're both broken, difficult people.

I long for a moment of them singing together again in the roller like in the pilot episode.

[jhlipton]

She thought he was stupid for making a human vow of fidelity but because he made it he was expected to keep it. What is actually surprising is that of the two Christy is actually more Castithian. What is most surprising of all is how interesting the pair has been this season. Go them!

 

He also made a Castithian vow -- Christie saw to that as well.  If Stahma says anything to her about "human vows", Christie has her anser ready.

Really great episode -- totally fooled me about who killed TD.  Can't wait for next week!

[AlliMo]

On rewatch, one moment I really liked was when Amanda demanded that Nolan make her a deputy, and after having her repeat herself to make sure he heard her right, that was it. No arguing or questioning, he just handed her the badge and went on his way. It was just a small moment that really pointed out to me how much trust and respect for her abilities he really does have for her.

[Vandy10]

Arkbrained Irisa shorted out the roller. I tell you, they better not kill off Tommy. And he finally got Nolan to eat some humble pie, too.

I'm unreasonably attached to Tommy. Don't know why, just am. He better survive, dammit.

[SmithW6079]

I don't think you can judge Nolan by the namby-pamby, wussified, politically correct definition of a "man" in 21st century America, and I have no trouble with him being portrayed as he is: "...men can be highly civilized only while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them." (Orwell, 1942). Nolan is a survivor. Even Pottinger, portrayed as he is as a bit of a dandy, is still rougher and tougher than most modern men in today's society.

 

I didn't care for this episode, mostly because I didn't buy Amanda and Treasure Doll's friendship. It was like they were trying to force on us that Amanda carried very deeply for one of her prostitutes, when all we'd seen of her before was that she was Alak's bit of stuff on the side, a part-time DJ and full-time whore, looking to wreck his marriage. I didn't have any sympathy for her being killed. Good for Christie for removing the threat to her marriage.

 

Still loving Lady Stahma MacBeth, because she is awesome. I'm pretty sure Datak was turned on when Stahma says she'll gut the little whore herself when his "price" for doing it is too dear for her.

 

I noticed (definitely in this episode), but also in the Kenya one, that Nolan is "softer" in the gut than he used to be (it's really obvious here). Maybe the actor is beefing up for a movie role? 

[johntfs]

Tommy's a black guy in a sci-fi show.  I've been terrified for him since day one.

 

As for Dierdre, no one on this show is of a piece.  No one is always heroic or villainous.  I can buy Dierdre encouraging Amanda to keep the Need/Want.  And I loved the little moment when Treasure Doll noted that Alak was the only one who called her by her real name of Dierdre.

 

As for Grant Bowler, he's now 46 years old.  As a fellow 46 year old I can testify that by that point the body's "warranty" has completely expired and the only thing left is to try to slow your constant, inevitable decline.

Edited August 25, 2014 by johntfs