Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[Souris]

ITA that the fandom is not enthused this season. I just remarked to some friends yesterday how slow the Twitter chatter about the show has been this season. It's a reflection of the show IMO. The finale was lackluster at best (a massive turn-off at worst), the first two episodes of this season weren't any better, and the story line they've set up with the EQ doesn't seem to have sparked much interest. Seems like there's general boredom and fatigue among the fans AND the writers. The show keeps going back to the same old well and not exploring or concentrating on things that might actually get the fandom excited. There's no buzz at all this season. Even CS fans, who I feel tend to be the most positive & excitable, aren't chattering; of course, there's next to nothing in spoilers to chatter about. Plus the show has gotten so dark and grim and hopeless, that has to cause a depression in fandom zeitgeist as well.

[Mathius]

42 minutes ago, Souris said:

Seems like there's general boredom and fatigue among the fans AND the writers. The show keeps going back to the same old well and not exploring or concentrating on things that might actually get the fandom excited. 

Even the actors, save for Lana and Bex, also seem tired at this point.

[Camera One]

It's surprising more people aren't a megafan of both Regina and Hook equally, since the Writers' Room favorite three main characters are likely Regina, Hook and Rumple (and now Zelena as a possible fourth).

However, I suspect that there are many casual viewers who are mainly fans of Regina, Hook and Rumple, but they're just not always on Twitter and the web.  I visit a message board with a general Entertainment section and there's a mostly inactive thread for "Once Upon a Time".   I've read several posts that they were not liking the show as much anymore because of the lack of Rumple.  Another shared that she didn't enjoy the episodes so far this season and she's a fan of Regina and Hook but the latter was no longer swashbuckling.  Another pointed out that the show seems to have run out of good ideas.  

Edited October 6, 2016 by Camera One

[Mathius]

Believe me, there are plenty of places with reviews and podcasts and what-not where people, casual and non-casual, totally fall in line with the writers' biases and love the villain characters (Regina, Rumple, Hook, Zelena, etc.) while hating the hero characters (Emma, Snow, Charming, Henry, etc.)

Edited October 6, 2016 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

Several podcasters seem to dislike Emma. They're usually fans of Rumple or Regina. Though some, oddly, were SF shippers. What's odd was that they disliked Emma pre-CS becoming canon. I thik it's the writing, because it keeps putting down Emma. 

[Mathius]

14 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

They're usually fans of Rumple or Regina. Though some, oddly, were SF shippers. What's odd was that they disliked Emma pre-CS becoming canon.

Not really, SF shippers tended to be more of Neal fans than Emma fans, and they were also Rumple fans / Rumbelle shippers in turn.

[Rumsy4]

21 hours ago, Mari said:

Ha!   . . Not my thing, but at least it isn't EQ/Emma/Rumple.  

I'm sure there are fics with that combination. Once you've dipped into the murky depths of Harry Potter fanfic, no pairing or combination will surprise you. ;-) 

[FurryFury]

Still trying to forget the Hagrid/Dobby one.

[mjgchick]

I honestly will never get the Emma hate other than the typical she's the lead of the show and we must like the supporting characters even when those suppprting characters can be just as one dimensional as the lead.

[Amerilla]

On 10/4/2016 at 2:19 AM, stealinghome said:

My recollection is that the TWOP board thought Regina was a compelling villain in Season 1, highly entertaining, and maybe had the potential to be redeemed over the course of a few seasons (though even then I think many of us were disappointed with her backstory, once we got it, feeling like it was v shallow).

 

 

 

 

I think that's correct, to the point where I felt like an anomaly for not finding her remotely compelling (I liked her better in S2-3 than 1). The rise of Swan Queen as a concrete (and VOCAL) fandom eventually created two different mindsets on the boards - those who filtered Regina primarily through the non-canon pairing and those who were sticking with canon. 

On 10/4/2016 at 2:19 AM, stealinghome said:

No, I'm pretty sure it was earlier. Back on TWOP, several posters would regularly foam at the mouth in 2B if you even hinted that maybe you thought Neal was okay, and kind of shipped Neal/Emma. I remember absolutely vitriolic screeds being posted on a regular basis.

 

 

 

 

It was particularly bad over the endless winter hiatus between 2A and 2B. In fact, that when stealinghome  and I (waves at  stealinghome) began a long discussion off-thread, because the incessant sqeeing about Hook/potential-CS was getting so over-the-top. Those final months at TWOP were harsh for a lot of us, and I don't know about the rest of you veterans, but I was having a bunch of private conversations with forum members who felt like they were being dismissed or disparaged on any number of issues having to deal with S2 Hook or their preference for Neal or Rumbelle or just Belle. Let's not even get into the whole "Princess Hello Kitty and Prince Dullard" meme over Snowing. 

 

On 10/4/2016 at 11:10 AM, Shanna Marie said:

There were a few people who were very invested on either side, but I think most of the discussion was more detached and analytical, without really taking sides.

 

 

 

It was the people who were over-invested -- the proverbial bad apples -- that changed the tone of the TWOP boards for the worst during those final months before shutdown. Yes, most of us were having the same full, analytical, respectful discussions we've had here all these years. But there were others who were all too happy to shut down posters at the slightest provocation, and I remember talking with a couple of posters who were survivors of sexual or domestic violence who felt like they were being silenced by others whose default position was but Hook is so HOT! or Belle deserved it and that sort of crap, and they ended up leaving the forum rather than putting up with it. I found this sad, both because they were genuinely hurt, and because they could have brought valuable insights into the portrayals of violence and sexuality that have turned out to be one of the show's ongoing problems for various characters. Luckily, none of the bad apples made the transition over here.

On 10/4/2016 at 1:42 PM, tennisgurl said:

Personally, I would feel bad if someone felt like they couldn't post on this board because they dont hold the majority opinion. As long as people are all respectful and arent making things up (Hook is totally a rapist guys! I saw it in a fanfic once!), then I think its refreshing to have people who have differing opinions on the board. Debates and discussions are a lot more interesting that way. Even though I tend to fall in line with the Hook/CS fans here, I like to hear what other people have to say. And Regina has grown on me, especially last season. 

 

 

 

4

While we can't know how many lurkers we have that don't feel like they can post because they don't follow the majority view, I think we mostly live up to this standard of openness . Hell, I'm a Neal fan AND a Belle fan AND a S2-S3 Rumbeller, and I'm still here. I like the challenge of trying to argue against the grain. And I'd like to think that, on occasion, I've made a couple of solid counterpoints.

And hey, at the end of the day, we've all been let down by the writer's laser-like focus on stripping every single character of their promise. I think we can all unify around that single point.

EDITED TO ADD: Reading the old TWOP forums is a gas!  https://web.archive.org/web/20140405153247/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/forum/1206-once-upon-a-time-general-gabbery/

Edited October 7, 2016 by Amerilla
for clarity & to add link

[Rumsy4]

Looks like everyone has different memories of past history--which is quite natural, I suppose. But this idea that the TWoP board was so vicious that people had to huddle in private chats all the time seems a bit of a stretch to me. There was one poster who used mocking nicknames like "hello kitty", etc. when I joined, but they were banned soon after I'd joined in S3. I think a lot of bitter feelings are being brought back up recalling the SF/CS S3 ship war days. And people who are happy over  something likely seem over the top to those who aren't, and vice versa.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Amerilla]

If your not part of an unpopular fandom, you wouldn't have any idea these back-channel subgroups exist, would you? I wouldn't say "huddling" as much as conversing about topics that were marginalized or ignored on the open boards. And yes, a bit of venting, too. 

To a far lesser extent, that happens here as well: I get PM's on a fairly regular basis from lurkers who know I'm pro-Belle, pro-Neal, not pro-Hook or particulary pro-Emma and just want to chat for a bit. I do encourage people to post on the open forums, since we are a nice group, but people's comfort levels vary.

[Rumsy4]

Look--I'm not saying people don't tend to chat in private when they hold the minority opinion, and I do vent in private too. But I'm not going to go around saying I like to vent about other posters on this board. There is also a difference between hating a character and complaining about people who like a character. If someone says posters here drool way too much over a character, that's making a value judgement on them, and being deliberately offensive IMO. I also think we need to ignore what fandom BAs do on twitter and not bother about it too much. It's just leading to more ill-feeling.

If someone thinks a topic is not touched on here, I think it's best to actually bring it up in the forum. We tend to nitpick the most trivial details on this board. And yes--the majority opinion here is definitely not pro-Belle or pro-Neal, for example, but as I mentioned before, every board has a leaning. I also think you are conflating S3 with S2, becasue TWoP was still in existence in S3. And S3 was definitely the worst of the ship-wars in all of fandom, and not just on TWoP. 

4 hours ago, FurryFury said:

Still trying to forget the Hagrid/Dobby one.

Heh. I've heard of that one, but luckily never read it. I have read the one with Tonks and the Giant Squid. Don't ask.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Rumsy4

[InsertWordHere]

41 minutes ago, Amerilla said:

If your not part of an unpopular fandom, you wouldn't have any idea these back-channel subgroups exist, would you? I wouldn't say "huddling" as much as conversing about topics that were marginalized or ignored on the open boards. And yes, a bit of venting, too. 

I agree with this, but the point of contention for me is the idea that this was happening in Season 2, and that CS was a popular fandom during that time. Were there a good deal of anti-Neal fans? Sure. But CS fans? No. Again, being anti-Neal/Swanfire does not mean one is pro Hook/CS. And some people finding Hook attractive does not mean every Hook fan is going to excuse every awful thing he has ever done as if his hotness has overruled our common sense, a sentiment I have seen repeated over and over again since Season 3 as if there has never been an attractive person on tv before that some people like and some dislike. 

Regardless, I would hate to see anyone who is a fan of this show (or likes to snark on this show) feel like they are getting attacked here for their opinions. This is not a shipping board. I am here to discuss the show in general, and snark on its lost potential, not put down other people for shipping a couple or being a fan of a character that I dislike. 

ETA: Why read Dobby/Hagrid fanfic when JKR has given us the gift of just imagining Hagrid's conception between a wizard father and a giantess mother? You're welcome. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[Rumsy4]

2 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

I am here to discuss the show in general, and snark on its lost potential, not put down other people for shipping a couple or being a fan of a character that I dislike. 

Well said, and thank you.

[Shanna Marie]

11 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

If someone thinks a topic is not touched on here, I think it's best to actually bring it up in the forum.

Yes, because otherwise we get into an echo chamber. If other topics never come up, it's easy to start thinking no one is interested in them, and so the usual topics get amplified with nothing to mix it up or counter it. Please do bring up new things and other points of view, as long as you're discussing the topics and points of view and not making value judgments on the posters.

4 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

And some people finding Hook attractive does not mean every Hook fan is going to excuse every awful thing he has ever done as if his hotness has overruled our common sense, a sentiment I have seen repeated over and over again since Season 3 as if there has never been an attractive person on tv before that some people like and some dislike.

Like that. It seems to me that most of the people who've felt silenced and driven away were the ones who jumped in to accuse anyone who said anything positive about a character they don't like of only liking them because they were anti- some other character or thought that actor was attractive. It seems to happen most often with Hook because he's at the center of a lot of the wars, so if someone likes Hook as a character, they tend to get accused of excusing everything he does because Colin is attractive, of only liking him because they hate Regina, Neal or Rumple, or only liking him because of the 'ship. People tend to get defensive when they get accused of things, especially when they aren't true. So you're not going to get a lot of discussion or feel welcomed if your first post is to say something like "Hook sucks and you only excuse his rapist behavior because he's attractive, and because you like him, you hate Regina, so you're anti-feminist and homophobic." You may get some pushback with reams of quotes from canon if you talk about his behavior patterns without getting personal about posters, but I don't think you'll be unwelcome as long as you're willing to argue based on what happens in the show.

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, Amerilla said:

If your not part of an unpopular fandom, you wouldn't have any idea these back-channel subgroups exist, would you? I wouldn't say "huddling" as much as conversing about topics that were marginalized or ignored on the open boards. And yes, a bit of venting, too. 

To a far lesser extent, that happens here as well: I get PM's on a fairly regular basis from lurkers who know I'm pro-Belle, pro-Neal, not pro-Hook or particulary pro-Emma and just want to chat for a bit. I do encourage people to post on the open forums, since we are a nice group, but people's comfort levels vary.

While I've never PMed anyone before, I'm sure there are many lurkers out there considering I was one for most of the show's run. For a while I gave up reading most of the discussions and just read spoilers. UO and WOaS threads are the only ones I really posted in for the longest time. You have to have nerves of steel to post here if you don't have the sanctioned opinions.

[Rumsy4]

8 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

You have to have nerves of steel to post here if you don't have the sanctioned opinions.

I think this can be answered by this:

Quote

You may get some pushback with reams of quotes from canon if you talk about his behavior patterns without getting personal about posters, but I don't think you'll be unwelcome as long as you're willing to argue based on what happens in the show.

There is also difference in the way people interpret canon. But I agree that people can expect a lot of long responses to posts (pro- or anti-).

People being resentful that the majority opinions tends to be pro-CS (for example) is hardly a fair complaint, IMO. Which is the impression I'm getting right now. Correct me if I'm wrong. Should the majority silence themselves becasue they are more in number on this forum? 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Rumsy4

[TheGreenKnight]

Well, really, you're just proving my point. You can't even have an opinion about the forum without someone insinuating you don't know how to post correctly. And believe me--it often does become personal, usually in the condescending tone used, when you don't just shut up and silence yourself when posting a different opinion.

[Amerilla]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

But I'm not going to go around saying I like to vent about other posters on this board.

That's not what I said. There was no "liking" involved, just general frustration that some voices and conversations were so clearly unwelcome on the open threads. 

1 hour ago, InsertWordHere said:

I agree with this, but the point of contention for me is the idea that this was happening in Season 2, and that CS was a popular fandom during that time.

Yes, I'd agree in S2, there was more focus on Hook as an individual character, and there were many people who liked Hook but many didn't ship him with Emma until S3. From my experience, it was the concomitant elevation of some characters and denigration of others that led to these closed discussions. It wasn't one thing, it was a bunch of things that developed over the course of S2-S3 and their hiatuses. 

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

You may get some pushback with reams of quotes from canon if you talk about his behavior patterns without getting personal about posters, but I don't think you'll be unwelcome as long as you're willing to argue based on what happens in the show.

 

The problem is, you can't always separate the personal from the analytical.

I think that's especially true when we're talking about unpopular fandoms. Say you buy a cake from a store, and you think the cake is really pretty, and tastes really good - and then you give bites of the cake to some friends, and they say "What a shitty cake. Here's a list of reasons why it sucks. And it's ugly." Now, you didn't bake the cake. They aren't blaming you for liking the cake. It's not a personal attack. You know that it's completely subjective, that everyone is entitled to their opinion. At the same time, you can also feel a little hurt or irritated, or even a bit stupid, for liking something other people so obviously hate. If this happens repeatedly, you're probably going to stop sharing your cakes.

Not a perfect analogy, admittedly. I should probably have some lunch. But that's roughly what it's like to be a SF/Rumbelle/OQ shipper, or to fan Neal or Belle or Robin or a have a compassionate tilt towards Rumpel or Regina. It's not personal, but it becomes personal, because you're being told, over and over, that the thing you like is stupid.

And honestly, sometimes you just want to have a critical discussion of a character that doesn't involve the words "douche" or "dumb" or "crypt" or "Stockholm." That can only happen in private or closed situations. It's 100% correct to say all fourms develop a tilt, and the number of people on the other of that tilt aren't great enough to balance that tilt.

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

People being resentful that the majority opinions tends to be pro-CS (for example) is hardly a fair complaint, IMO. Which is the impression I'm getting right now. Correct me if I'm wrong. Should the majority silence themselves becasue they are more in number on this forum? 

4

I'm certainly not resentful, nor have a sensed resentment from anyone I've talked to, on boards or in private. Nor can I think of an instance of anyone EVER asking the majority to silence yourself. (The fact that some of us have taken our anti-CS and pro-Other Things discussions to other channels shows that we respect the will of the majority.) Ship your ships and Godspeed.         

[InsertWordHere]

Spoiler

On 10/3/2016 at 2:18 PM, asabovesobelow said:

 

ignore please, I had a quote box mishap!

[MostlyC]

Quote

 

You have to have nerves of steel to post here if you don't have the sanctioned opinions.

In case you all are referring to this board, I wish to be clear:

ALL opinions are welcome here.   Personal attacks are not.  One should not be afraid to say things that might be considered controversial by some without being berated for said opinions.  In fact, say them! We love civilized discourse and polite debate, and if it becomes too passionate, agree to disagree and move on.

If you are all referring to another thread, my apologies.

Remember our sweet, sweet bunny with the Tiara?  She agrees with me. Let us not make her cry. 

[Mari]

That  bunny is an effective redirect (at least for me). I don't usually succumb to cute.  But every time I see that bunny I want to awww and coo.  

It's hard to argue and stop yourself from baby talking at the computer at the same time.

[Curio]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Yes, because otherwise we get into an echo chamber. If other topics never come up, it's easy to start thinking no one is interested in them, and so the usual topics get amplified with nothing to mix it up or counter it. Please do bring up new things and other points of view, as long as you're discussing the topics and points of view and not making value judgments on the posters.

100% yes. I love analyzing this show, but there's only so much to dissect. Everyone has their own personal leanings, so for example, I'm more likely to want to talk about the writing process or continuity. But another poster might bring up something interesting about Rumple's behavior I never noticed before, and that's the fun kind of conversation I'm missing out on when people have private conversations and don't post on the main boards. I want to read unique opinions, but if I do debate a certain point, I try to quote from the show and use canon as often as possible to try and not make it personal.

54 minutes ago, Amerilla said:

And honestly, sometimes you just want to have a critical discussion of a character that doesn't involve the words "douche" or "dumb" or "crypt" or "Stockholm."

Genuinely curious...is "crypt" a reference to Regina and Robin having sex in her crypt?

[DigitalCount]

I'm certainly guilty of fixating on the unrepentant rape both Mills sisters have engaged in. I don't post here all that frequently, but on Tumblr I've definitely given a no-holds-barred blast to Regina at least once, and was pretty roundly condemned for it (mostly because I don't understand tag "ownership"; I guess it's considered poor form to critique a character without tagging it anti, which seems bizarre but okay).

So I can certainly understand people getting tired of hearing the same things. On the other hand, it would be great to have these issues addressed in canon so we can move on. If the show is content to wallow in s1, wouldn't the fans be likely to do the same?

[PixiePaws1]

I'm  a hard core CS shipper and I'm rabid anti-Neal and SF but my loathing for Neal is completely independent of whether CS happened or not.We just had S2b replay here and I was reminded of why I hate him and his treatment of Emma so much; however I  valued the discussions by the pro Neal fans because their different POV often 'talked me off the ledge' of giving up the show when I  thought  SF was going to evolve and Emma and Neal were getting back together. It is healthy to hear/read other opinions when they're expressed well. It helps me realise if I am being too harsh on a character or confirm I am  not.   I've read many thoughtful posts about Neal's virtues but they didn't change my opinion that A&E made adorable young brave Bae into grown up cowardly scum. I don't have to have everyone agree with me and I  hope I have learned to at least appreciate the rationale of those who think otherwise.

[sharky]

So with all this TWoP talk, what the hell is this? http://screenertv.com/twop/

Hm....I like where I am just fine, thanks.

[OnceUponAJen]

Speaking of a less-than-enthused fandom, I know I've mentioned this before but I would love to see a season in the EF with the curse never cast. That would be a new take on our old characters.  It could be an opportunity to bring back old characters as well.

[Camera One]

I suspect that is A&E's plan for the final season all along.  The characters will realize that they should thank Regina and Rumple for the Curse.

[oliverwendell]

Quote

So with all this TWoP talk, what the hell is this? http://screenertv.com/twop/

Hm....I like where I am just fine, thanks.

!!!!!!! I was a diehard TWoP girl (under a different username). I'd definitely check out its new iteration, and I'd be really excited if the recaps were back. TWoP had THE BEST show recaps out there, rivaled only by AVClub. (Cindy McClennan!! Have they called you yet??) But I have to say, I like the way this place is moderated much better. There's a little more leeway allowed for vigorous debate, but it's never allowed to descend into the personal or annoyingly repetitive.

[daxx]

I swear this fandom. I'm a working mom of two boys. I have a (low level) leadership position in a Fortune 500 company. I never quit working other than the maternity leave.

Why does the fandom keep saying that Emma shouldn't want a baby, that it's ooc for her to want to be "barefoot and pregnant " since when is wanting to having a family equivalent to barefoot and pregnant?

it drives me crazy, if Emma loves having her son of course it might make her want to raise a baby from birth. It's a natural desire. She has fake memories of raising Henry, why wouldn't she want that for real?

[OnceUponAJen]

10 hours ago, daxx said:

I swear this fandom. I'm a working mom of two boys. I have a (low level) leadership position in a Fortune 500 company. I never quit working other than the maternity leave.

Why does the fandom keep saying that Emma shouldn't want a baby, that it's ooc for her to want to be "barefoot and pregnant " since when is wanting to having a family equivalent to barefoot and pregnant?

it drives me crazy, if Emma loves having her son of course it might make her want to raise a baby from birth. It's a natural desire. She has fake memories of raising Henry, why wouldn't she want that for real?

I have a white collar job in a high stress industry.  Career isn't everything,  money isn't everything.  As you get older I think you realize that more. Family/kids may not be for everyone,  but I think it's natural to want that.

Edited October 9, 2016 by OnceUponAJen

[mjgchick]

That is some mysogynistic views this fandom has when it comes to Emma. (Her having a boyfriend makes her week, her WEARING soft clothing makes her week, her crying because a loved one is FREAKING DEAD.) They do realize Emma gave up Henry because her douche of a boyfriend left her to get caught by the police which lead to her having him in jail where she's still a minor right? Before that she wanted a home with that moron and most likely wanted children. 

 

Hey assholes women can be seen as strong with children, a white picket fence and a career. Would they go up to freaking Michelle Obama and say "hey you shouldn't want to be pregnant and barefoot. It's OOC."

 

Thia fandom is so gross when they don't get their way they say some of the most ignorant things I've ever seen just to rile up the fandom they hate. 

[high]

Quote

Why does the fandom keep saying that Emma shouldn't want a baby, that it's ooc for her to want to be "barefoot and pregnant " since when is wanting to having a family equivalent to barefoot and pregnant?

Hi guys, long time lurker here. This seems like such a great day to start posting! While I agree that’s some BS, I do feel like it will be more in character for both Emma and Hook to adopt kids, given their history. And it seems like Swan Believer has been neglected for a while and another baby will just be baby Liam Do-over-number-2 Swan-Jones.

[RedKeep]

I think at least some of that over the top complaining or pseudo social justice warrior/feminist attitude is ultimately also rooted in something I can relate to at least a bit (apart from the obvious shipping aspect that heavily plays into it as well, mind you). This show started out making a lot of promises about being progressive and telling fairytales for a modern audience and in the end, past season 1, that too turned out to be mostly empty phrases. There's a lot of wasted potential on that level of the show as well. Turns out Horowitz and Kitsis' understanding of writing strong female characters, for example, never really went beyond that image they kept coming back to during the early days of the show - "look, our Snow White is wielding a sword!" Add to that how the show is basically only about ships/pleasing shippers now or consider their ridiculously sad writing for minority characters and children (not just baby Neal and baby Robin, they obviously have no clue what to do with Henry most of the time either) and I get where some of the disappointment may come from. However, the writing's been on the wall for a long time now and anyone who was/is honestly still hoping for these writers to make some bold(er) storytelling choices for any of their characters is definitely setting themselves up for disappointment again and again.

[Rumsy4]

If the Show spent more time on character development, and less on plot, we would be able to understand character motivations better. As is, even in S6, characters act as plot dictates. It's easy to headcanon or project some personality trait on a character because there are so many blanks. When the Show finally fills that blank 5 or 6 seasons down the line, it won't fit all different fandom headcanons, and inevitably disappoint or piss people off. 

We had a similar furore last season between people (just CSers) who want Emma to get married and those who don't. Both factions got pretty heated.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Serena]

I don't care if Emma and Hook conceive or adopt a baby, or if one falls from the sky into their backyard (or if they don't have kids at all, for that matter). All I want is for the kid, if it exists, NOT to be called Liam. Because he's a douche.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Serena

[mjgchick]

Seriously what's this obsession the fandom has with Liam? That guy was not only boring but a douche noodle. And Elsa deserves better.

[maryle]

iAbout Emma and the traditionnal role  of woman in Once I have two problems.

 

1. in real liffe it iis rarely opposiie most woman  want  to  have a familly and working and Emma was damage  by her ttrauma  not against wanting a  familly actually her story with Neal (thaallasse) indicate  a will for  a family with him.

so,  it  is  natural that with favorable circonstance it wil  come back. So,  nothing ooc for Emma

2. is more a fandom . I cannot take most of this claim seriously because it is always about Emma,  only ! All the others woman can have dress,   baby without some people screaiming but  Emma. She should not show  any  feminityy  at all.

[YaddaYadda]

2 hours ago, Serena said:

I don't care if Emma and Hook conceive or adopt a baby, or if one falls from the sky into their backyard (or if they don't have kids at all, for that matter). All I want is for the kid, if it exists, NOT to be called Liam. Because he's a douche.

I don't get it either. 

[OnceUponAJen]

3 hours ago, mjgchick said:

Hey assholes women can be seen as strong with children, a white picket fence and a career. Would they go up to freaking Michelle Obama and say "hey you shouldn't want to be pregnant and barefoot. It's OOC."

 

Thia fandom is so gross when they don't get their way they say some of the most ignorant things I've ever seen just to rile up the fandom they hate. 

Yeah, I thought feminism was all about choice!

[Rumsy4]

27 minutes ago, OnceUponAJen said:

Yeah, I thought feminism was all about choice!

It seems to me that some fans can only accept it if Emma makes non-traditional choices. 

[asabovesobelow]

On 10/7/2016 at 0:38 PM, Rumsy4 said:

People being resentful that the majority opinions tends to be pro-CS (for example) is hardly a fair complaint, IMO. Which is the impression I'm getting right now. Correct me if I'm wrong. Should the majority silence themselves becasue they are more in number on this forum? 

Personally, I'm not resentful at all that the majority here are pro-CS. But if you go back just a few pages even, you'll see some posters basically saying that the SQ fandom is made up of loudmouth, entitled, hysterical bullies. I can see why it would be intimidating to come discuss the intricacies of your fandom when you're viewed as such. I came here for civilized discussion, not zealous tumblr wars, and was surprised to see such generalizations. The majority certainly has a right to conversation and opinions, but it can feel like an attack when the same majority descend on an alternate viewpoint.

[RedKeep]

It's also worth keeping in mind that many of those negative adjectives can be used to describe certain parts of/individuals in every other group of fans dedicated to this show as well. To stick with the SQ/CS example: I have my issues with many of the vocal SQ supporters on Twitter especially, but I have also seen a lot of CS fans on that same site that don't behave any better. They just differ with regards to which character/actor/storyline they tend to focus on, not so much in the tone of their posts and the level of noise they're trying to make. It may seem to us, at times, that certain groups are worse than others, but that really depends on one's perspective. I'd guess that if I were to seriously involve myself in the SQ fandom, I'd be able to surround myself with perfect lovely people who discuss the show as a whole in a tone and manner that I'm comfortable with and tune out those who are hysterical and over the top, limited to seeing nothing but their ship in their reactions to it. Same goes for every other group in the overall fandom. It's easy to fall back on generalizations, and I'm gulity of that too, but I can see why they may make it a bit harder for newbies who aren't necessarily sharing the opinions of a majority to come out of lurkerdom on here.

[maryle]

It is truth that sometimes I guess this forum can be see as leaning to the C's side but for comparison I decided to look at the tree others forums I know of and two of them is not a welcome place for CS or even Emma fans right now (the mind board, and once upon a podcast). The last one is more balanced I felt at First but I realized looking deeper that the forum seem awfully quiet about discussing CS or even Emma relationship in deeper meaning like they do for others character(fan forum)

So, each forum as a certain view that are a majority and this one offer a good diversity.

[YaddaYadda]

There are BAs in every part of this fandom, CSers included.

I love CS, ship them hard, but I just can't with the entitlement I see sometimes, and the meltdowns that go on for days over spoilers or non spoilers. Some SQers are bullies, and these are the people Adam chooses to engage with for some reason.

That bugs the hell out of me.

Edited October 13, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[InsertWordHere]

25 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I love CS, ship them hard, but I just can't with the entitlement I see sometimes, and the meltdowns that go on for days over spoilers or non spoilers.

This is just so perplexing to me, because, back in the day, knowing spoilers was like some sort of secret club and we didn't go running to the writers or actors discussing the spoilers we knew. Or more like "knew" because half of these spoilers were/are blown way out of proportion and it would help if people waited to see the completed episode.

I also think people were a lot more careful about keeping spoilers away from fans who don't wish to be spoiled back then too. I sound old. I'm going to go back to complaining about things that squick me out now. I'm looking at you, Puppet Manchild. Get off my lawn. 

[YaddaYadda]

5 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

This is just so perplexing to me, because, back in the day, knowing spoilers was like some sort of secret club and we didn't go running to the writers or actors discussing the spoilers we knew. Or more like "knew" because half of these spoilers were/are blown way out of proportion and it would help if people waited to see the completed episode.

Social media and access to the writers and actors exacerbates everything. Everyone gets offended about something.

[sharky]

Same thing seems to be happening with fanfic. A decade ago you would never tell anyone related to the show that you were a writer or ask them to read your fanfic. We even put disclaimers on fanfic as a just in case. And yet last year Lana was showing off her book that was a SQ fanfic turned original fic. It just feels weird to see that as a fanfic writer myself. Not sure if I like it. 

[asabovesobelow]

So maybe Golden Queen is really going to be a thing? ::shudder::

 

Spoiler

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by asabovesobelow