S01.E10: The Black Queen

[absnow54]

4 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I'm really hoping we get to see a lot more of Lord Cregan Stark, since he was mentioned by name in the episode. I need a Stark in this show right now, lol. 

I couldn't care less about dragons. I need a direwolf to get fully invested in this war. 

[DigitalCount]

10 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Glances to the left.

Sees sigil of House Bolton

As far as an explanation goes, it's because of their family name--it's one letter off of mine.

I hope the Starks are as honorable as they will be in the future. I need the Blacks to start putting some tally marks in the W column. Otto was right to an extent, the Greens have the Conqueror's crown and the throne, as well as the people of King's Landing. The Blacks are already on the back foot.

[paigow]

8 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I couldn't care less about dragons. I need a direwolf to get fully invested in this war. 

Large, hairy, hornless roasted goat

[proserpina65]

39 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Vhagar's was anyone's to claim.  She didn't belong to Rhaena's family.  Once her rider was dead, she was a total free agent.

Quoting myself to note that her first look at Aemond when he went to claim her was totally: "What the fuck do you want, twerp?  I'm trying to sleep."

36 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Even though the actor doesn't look it, Aemond's a kid, likely a scared kid, hes going to come down from the sky talking mad shit. Maybe he might've gotten away with it if he keeps his mouth shut or denied it (doubt it, but it's possible) but I dont see him doing it.

As much as I love the character, I absolutely don't see him as a kid, let alone a scared one.  He might not be that many years older than Jace and Luke, but he's matured much faster, most likely due to neither parent paying attention to him.  And while it was fairly controlled until this last episode, there was a definite feeling of barely suppressed resentment and hatred seething just below the surface with Aemond ever since the 6 year time jump.

32 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

Does anyone actually buy that offer was made out of family generosity and not to keep the sons of the more dangerous parent as hostages? 

Oh, absolutely it was to keep them as hostages.  Just like that was the purpose of Theon Greyjoy being raised at Winterfell.  Although I suspect Otto Hightower wouldn't have been treating Rhaenyra's sons like part of the family.

32 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

As far as we know, this was an Aemond only thing. A bullying trip gone wrong

Yeah, this struck me as being completely the result of his own inability to let the eye thing go.

The Baratheon daughters looked more promising than Walder Frey's girls.

[paigow]

16 minutes ago, DigitalCount said:

The Blacks are already on the back foot.

Exactly how Larys likes it....

[Uncle JUICE]

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

I guess? Tyrion seemed to ride his kin AND queenslaying into a cushy civil servant role. Well technically he didn't kill Dany but he really really encouraged it. I get the feeling the Martells kill each other on the regular too but that's Dorne.

THis is true but it's also one of the neatest things about stuff like that in Martin's writing. Like the curse of Harrenhal, is that why Harwin and Lyonel Strong are burned alive there? Are kinslayers really accursed (he does have to basically become a fugitive after he kills Tywin) or is that sort of read onto it in retrospect. Like the man said, prophecies (and curses) are like half trained mules. THe minute you trust it, you get kicked in the face by it. 

My only point is that real or not, it's a HUGE taboo in Westeros. Probably enough to have kept Rhaenys from burning the whole green team. 

[Constantinople]

As a viewer, I can't get worked up about kinslaying after Game of Thrones.

Some kinslayers had bad ends, but not necessarily related to kinslaying (Ramsay, Euron). Some kinslayers turned out fine.

Tyrion killed his father and ended up Hand of the King.

Jon killed his aunt and ended up going camping, which is pretty much what he would have wanted to do anyone.

[Oscirus]

Sansa killed her father and wound up queen of the north.  Too soon?

I love that Corlys was all, Alright, I learned my lesson lets go home and Rhaenys was all too late for that now bitch

Edited October 24, 2022 by Oscirus

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think Daemon was singing to Vermithar as a way of trying to set up having maybe Rhaena bond with that dragon so that they can get another dragon for the war. 

Who is Vermithar? The fact that you know its name means this must be book material because I had no idea what was going on in that scene. It pre-supposed knowledge of the book IMO. I know that Daemon spoke of unclaimed/wild dragons but that whole scene of him singing to the dragon was a head scratcher.

I also thought it was a dumb move sending Jace and Luke as messengers because surely the Hightowers would be sending their own goons to shore up their bannermen and would be waiting for them. The second Luke saw Vhagar at Storms End he should have turned around and noped right back out of there. 

I didn't get the crown thing either. Did Errick steal the crown or did he just make a replica? 

Finally - how the hell does anyone, aside from Aemon, even know what happened to Luke? He was killed over open water from what I could tell and fell right into the sea. There were no other witnesses. Unless Aemon tells on himself, all anyone would know is that Luke is missing.

[Oscirus]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

I didn't get the crown thing either. Did Errick steal the crown or did he just make a replica? 

Finally - how the hell does anyone, aside from Aemon, even know what happened to Luke? He was killed over open water from what I could tell and fell right into the sea. There were no other witnesses. Unless Aemon tells on himself, all anyone would know is that Luke is missing.

He stole the crown likely as he was leaving and rescuing rhaenys.

He was seen chasing Luke when Luke disappeared. Dont see how he could possibly lie about not knowing what happened to him.

[absnow54]

Just now, Oscirus said:

He stole the crown likely as he was leaving and rescuing rhaenys.

Wasn't it a different Kingsguard who helped Rhaenys escape? 

[proserpina65]

Just now, absnow54 said:

Wasn't it a different Kingsguard who helped Rhaenys escape? 

No, it was whichever of the Erryk/Arryk combo who was disgusted by Aegon.  He helped Rhaenys escape and then showed up at Dragonstone with Viserys' crown.

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who is Vermithar?

Pretty sure Daemon mentioned Vermithor while listing unclaimed dragons at Dragonstone.

[Helena Dax]

I think it was stupid to send Luke. Rhaenys' was a better choice, given how much the Baratheons seemed to like her. Otoh, lord Baratheon is an oath-breaker. I hope lord Stark is the opposite. Northerners don't seem to care as much about women leading as Southerners do, judging by lady Mormont. 

Aemond, I was starting to like you, but I hate you again.

Btw, are they trying to say that it was Drogon the one who chose to burn King's Landing?

Edited October 24, 2022 by Helena Dax

[CountryGirl]

Luc was sent to Dragonstone as a messenger for his mother. He would have been seen by everyone present leaving the hall at Storm's End without engaging Aemond in a fight. He would have been seen by the guards outside flying off on his dragon, away from Storm's End and away from Aemond. Aemond, on dragon-back, would have been seen giving chase by these same men, particularly given Vhagar's size. It's not a far-fetched conclusion as to what happened next. 

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, CountryGirl said:

Luc was sent to Dragonstone as a messenger for his mother. He would have been seen by everyone present leaving the hall at Storm's End without engaging Aemond in a fight. He would have been seen by the guards outside flying off on his dragon, away from Storm's End and away from Aemond. Aemond, on dragon-back, would have been seen giving chase by these same men, particularly given Vhagar's size. It's not a far-fetched conclusion as to what happened next. 

Yes, and as a previous poster already mentioned, House Baratheon had chosen to back the Greens, but they were not going to take credit for Aemond's war crimes, so it would make sense to send word to Dragonstone that after Aemond antagonized Luke in front of witnesses, he pursued him on dragon back, and they should probably check in on that.

[jeansheridan]

43 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who is Vermithar? The fact that you know its name means this must be book material because I had no idea what was going on in that scene. It pre-supposed knowledge of the book IMO. I know that Daemon spoke of unclaimed/wild dragons but that whole scene of him singing to the dragon was a head scratcher.

I haven't read the books so aside from its name, I figured he was wooing a dragon. The show has been good at showing Daemon more in touch with dragon raising than anyone else. And based on Aemond's bonding in the earlier ep, it felt like the same process. Aemon was just, you know, cooler. I did like Rhyneara knew what he was doing.

And yeah the downside of dragonriding is you have zero backup on the ground. I thought that immediately.  It's why Tyrion and Ser Mormont didn't want Dany flying to The North alone. Dragon or no dragon it just takes one arrow or dagger. Your army can't protect you 100s of miles away.

Edited October 24, 2022 by jeansheridan

[AntFTW]

I feel like Aemond is not exactly over the pig joke yet either 🤣

[Cristofle]

7 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

Rhaenys' was a better choice, given how much the Baratheons seemed to like her.

Rhaenys had the more important task of patrolling with Meleys, though. Luke definitely wasn't up to that. And Winterfell is a long ride, plus Jace was also going to see Jeyne Erryn. So I think in her mind, Rhaenyra sent her son on the safest mission of the ones available, the one close by. The Baratheons were not going to harm him under a peace banner. I think that kind of highlights how out of scope Aemond was, along with the Baratheons telling him to knock it off. This would not have been a dangerous task if Aemond hadn't gone so far out of bounds. 

[CountryGirl]

37 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

As a viewer, I can't get worked up about kinslaying after Game of Thrones.

Some kinslayers had bad ends, but not necessarily related to kinslaying (Ramsay, Euron). Some kinslayers turned out fine.

Tyrion killed his father and ended up Hand of the King.

Jon killed his aunt and ended up going camping, which is pretty much what he would have wanted to do anyone.

I don't view all kinslaying as equal. Tyrion killing Tywin, the father who had helped sign his death warrant, I didn't give a shit about. Pardon the pun. Jon killing Dany, his aunt and former lover, after she torched KL, killing thousands of innocents, has me "meh," even if I hated Dany's ending and felt it wasn't fully earned. Ramsey killing his father after Roose's role in the Red Wedding and Euron killing his equally assholish brother, Balon - have me "meh" as well.

Aemond killing a boy of fourteen whom he knew was no match for him with a sword, let alone on dragonback, who made it clear he did not wish to fight, who tried to flee on his tiny in comparison dragon...I view that quite differently. Aemond losing his eye, which he was largely to blame for, given his actions in the fight six years earlier, is zero justification for him chasing after Luc, much less killing him. 

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Yeah, this struck me as being completely the result of his own inability to let the eye thing go.

Random question but did Jaime ever get justice for his hand? We know Varys got payback for his balls. That was one very cold revenge.

.

[Cristofle]

1 minute ago, CountryGirl said:

I don't view all kinslaying as equal. Tyrion killing Tywin, the father who had helped sign his death warrant, I didn't give a shit about. Pardon the pun. Jon killing Dany, his aunt and former lover, after she torched KL, killing thousands of innocents, has me "meh," even if I hated Dany's ending and felt it wasn't fully earned. Ramsey killing his father after Roose's role in the Red Wedding and Euron killing his equally assholish brother, Balon - have me "meh" as well.

Aemond killing a boy of fourteen whom he knew was no match for him with a sword, let alone on dragonback, who made it clear he did not wish to fight, who tried to flee on his tiny in comparison dragon...I view that quite differently. Aemond losing his eye, which he was largely to blame for, given his actions in the fight six years earlier, is zero justification for him chasing after Luc, much less killing him. 

Agreed. Personally, it's not that Luke is Aemon's nephew that makes Aemond so bad in this scenario - it's that he was terrorizing a much younger boy who had no ability to fight back based on a years-old grudge. It was almost more irritating for Aemond to go "WAIT NOT THAT VHAGAR" at the very end, when he'd all but guaranteed Luke's death up to that moment. And killing Rhaenyra's young son guarantees war. He put his obsession about the loss of his eye over the good of not just his family, but the entire realm. All for a stupid, petty, bullying game. And I think that will also factor into how others will see him. Everyone knows who Vhagar is. 

In terms of the show...hard to say. Borris did make it clear that Luke was not to be harmed as an envoy, so that part was obvious, but writers of the shows tend to go back and forth on kinslaying depending on how lazy the writers are feeling on any given day. Personally, I think it probably will come into play here, because it ups the drama and the damage that Aemond has done in jumpstarting this war. For me, it's probably the least of the issues with Luke's death, but this is a conflict where all the great houses must choose, and I think this will be a factor for some of them, why the Greens can't be trusted. Others will probably justify it away. 

[proserpina65]

5 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Random question but did Jaime ever get justice for his hand? We know Varys got payback for his balls. That was one very cold revenge.

.

I think the guy responsible for cutting off Jaime's hand was the one sent north to look for Bran and who got killed at Craster's Keep, but it's been a long time so I wouldn't swear to that.

[Jack Shaftoe]

15 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

I think it was stupid to send Luke. Rhaenys' was a better choice, given how much the Baratheons seemed to like her. Otoh, lord Baratheon is an oath-breaker.

It was the father of the current head of the Baratheron House that swore the oath to support Rhaenyra's bid for the throne. Viserys, being the clueless fool that he was, doesn't seem to have bothered to have even the lords of the biggest houses take the oath upon their succession. Or maybe he was too ill to care when the previous Baratheon lord died and Otto, of course, had no reason to press the issue.

That said, many lords would have broken the oath regardless if it served their goals but leaving them the convenient loophole of "My father took an oath, not me" was really unwise. Medieval politics weren't so much between kingdoms, duchies and counties as they were highly personal affairs between people who could combine many roles and titles in one person. The king of England was also famously the duke of Normandy and then Aquitaine, which led to centuries of trouble with the French kings who usually wanted the English kings to do homage for these domains every time a new king took the throne. Oaths of fealty were renewed every time someone was granted a given title. Oaths to support a chosen king's successor weren't as common but apparently Henry I of England did demand from his barons to swear to support his daughter Matilda not once but several times.

[ybrik]

31 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who is Vermithar? The fact that you know its name means this must be book material because I had no idea what was going on in that scene. It pre-supposed knowledge of the book IMO. I know that Daemon spoke of unclaimed/wild dragons but that whole scene of him singing to the dragon was a head scratcher.

I also thought it was a dumb move sending Jace and Luke as messengers because surely the Hightowers would be sending their own goons to shore up their bannermen and would be waiting for them. The second Luke saw Vhagar at Storms End he should have turned around and noped right back out of there. 

I didn't get the crown thing either. Did Errick steal the crown or did he just make a replica? 

Finally - how the hell does anyone, aside from Aemon, even know what happened to Luke? He was killed over open water from what I could tell and fell right into the sea. There were no other witnesses. Unless Aemon tells on himself, all anyone would know is that Luke is missing.

While I have read the book, knowing this was Vermithar had nothing to do with it. That was pure closed captioning saying this was Vermithar during the scene.

Actually sending Jace and Luke shouldn’t have been a bad move since Aemond is the only dragon rider the Greens could send to the houses as you can’t send out the Aegon or Haelena for this so there goes two of the their three dragon riders. Any goons that the Hightowers would send would have to be by land or sea which means dragons would get there a lot faster. Most likely with the exception of Storms End, the Hightowers would have sent ravens with their offers. 

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Do they know that? Where did they even fall? And who found them? 

Well, somehow Daemon knew quickly, so someone knew something.  I guess that you're right that we don't know the extent of what they know, but they also know that the dragon hasn't returned home.  Corlys is patrolling the seas; I guess I just assumed that someone saw the aftermath.

[Oscirus]

If Aemonds to blame for what happened to his eye, than Luke is to blame for his own death being that if he didnt give aemond ptsd there wouldve been no need for the demonstration at storms end.

The real problem with the way they handled the baratheons is they had nothing to offer. Sure some people are about keeping their word. That pitch will work with the starks cuz theyre all about word keeping.  I doubt any other major house will join them just cuz of their word though

[Cristofle]

3 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

If Aemonds to blame for what happened to his eye, than Luke is to blame for his own death being that if he didnt give aemond ptsd there wouldve been no need for the demonstration at storms end.

That is a much, much, much bigger stretch. Way too much of a stretch. One of them - only one of them - was the instigator in this fight. Luke not only didn't instigate anything, but he made every effort to extract himself without bloodshed. There was a solid chance Aemond choosing to fight and taunt four kids at once would not end well for him, that they would manage to overpower him, particularly when he continued to behave in the exact manner after Jace revealed he had a knife. How on EARTH was Luke supposed to know that Aemond was even at Storm's End, let alone that he'd defy House Baratheon and every custom of their culture based on that years-ago fight? If Luke had sought out Aemond in any way, you might have some point, but he didn't. Aemond also cannot blame PTSD for this crime. He was in control of himself - he just wasn't in control of his dragon, and too stupid and arrogant to realize it. 

[FnkyChkn34]

Isn't Aemond again taking out his bullying and need for revenge on the wrong person?  The pig joke was Aegon: Aemond goes after the 4 other kids.  Jace slashed Aemond and took his eye:  Aemond goes after Luce.  Right?  (I thought that the end of the rock/eye fight was between Aemond and Jace, but I could be wrong.) 

Also, can someone please remind me, from the very beginning of GoT, who it was that Jaime killed to become the Kingslayer?  I know it was the last Targaryen king, but I forget his name.

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Also, can someone please remind me, from the very beginning of GoT, who it was that Jaime killed to become the Kingslayer?  I know it was the last Targaryen king, but I forget his name.

Aerys II

[proserpina65]

7 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

The real problem with the way they handled the baratheons is they had nothing to offer. Sure some people are about keeping their word. That pitch will work with the starks cuz theyre all about word keeping.  I doubt any other major house will join them just cuz of their word though

Yep.  Borros Baratheon seemed very insulted that Rhaenyra's letter was reminding him of his father's oath without offering any incentive to support her.

2 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

That is a much, much, much bigger stretch. Way too much of a stretch. One of them - only one of them - was the instigator in this fight. Luke not only didn't instigate anything, but he made every effort to extract himself without bloodshed. There was a solid chance Aemond choosing to fight and taunt four kids at once would not end well for him, that they would manage to overpower him, particularly when he continued to behave in the exact manner after Jace revealed he had a knife. How on EARTH was Luke supposed to know that Aemond was even at Storm's End, let alone that he'd defy House Baratheon and every custom of their culture based on that years-ago fight? If Luke had sought out Aemond in any way, you might have some point, but he didn't. Aemond also cannot blame PTSD for this crime. He was in control of himself - he just wasn't in control of his dragon, and too stupid and arrogant to realize it. 

Luke owned an equal share of the blame for the fight at Driftmark, but what happened at Storm's End was all Aemond and his inability to get beyond what happened to his eye.

[go4luca]

9 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Dany only rode drogon, the other two were just her kids

True but she still had a connection to all three.

[Oscirus]

8 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

That is a much, much, much bigger stretch. Way too much of a stretch. One of them - only one of them - was the instigator in this fight. Luke not only didn't instigate anything, but he made every effort to extract himself without bloodshed. There was a solid chance Aemond choosing to fight and taunt four kids at once would not end well for him, that they would manage to overpower him, particularly when he continued to behave in the exact manner after Jace revealed he had a knife. How on EARTH was Luke supposed to know that Aemond was even at Storm's End, let alone that he'd defy House Baratheon and every custom of their culture based on that years-ago fight? If Luke had sought out Aemond in any way, you might have some point, but he didn't. Aemond also cannot blame PTSD for this crime. He was in control of himself - he just wasn't in control of his dragon, and too stupid and arrogant to realize it. 

If Aemond is to be blamed for losing his eye due to talking shit then Luke is to be blamed  for going for a kill shot six years ago.  Not to mention he couldve easily turned back around as soon as he saw Vhagar, it wasnt like Aemond was exactly hiding. 

Im of the opinion that Luke went too far in the cave and Aemond went too far at Storm's end, but tit for tat if we blame one for what happened to them than we got to blame both. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Oscirus

[jeansheridan]

1 minute ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Jace slashed Aemond and took his eye:  Aemond goes after Luce.  Right?  (I thought that the end of the rock/eye fight was between Aemond and Jace, but I could be wrong.) 

It was Luce who slashed him. 

[proserpina65]

2 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Isn't Aemond again taking out his bullying and need for revenge on the wrong person?  The pig joke was Aegon: Aemond goes after the 4 other kids.  Jace slashed Aemond and took his eye:  Aemond goes after Luce.  Right?  (I thought that the end of the rock/eye fight was between Aemond and Jace, but I could be wrong.) 

Aegon surely set up the pig joke, but Jace and Luke were in on it and enjoyed the hell out of mocking Aemond.  The fight at Driftmark wasn't started by Aemond although he certainly did nothing to deescalate it in any way.  Jace and Aemond were fighting but it was Luke who slashed Aemond with the knife to stop him from going after Jace with the rock.

[Oscirus]

4 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Isn't Aemond again taking out his bullying and need for revenge on the wrong person?  The pig joke was Aegon: Aemond goes after the 4 other kids.  Jace slashed Aemond and took his eye:  Aemond goes after Luce.  Right?  (I thought that the end of the rock/eye fight was between Aemond and Jace, but I could be wrong.) 

Also, can someone please remind me, from the very beginning of GoT, who it was that Jaime killed to become the Kingslayer?  I know it was the last Targaryen king, but I forget his name.

Luke slashed his eye, Jace threw dirt and Aemond wasnt going after anybody, he was just trying to go home when they confronted him.

[CountryGirl]

Sad ending for Luc and Arrax aside, there were some absolutely stunning visuals in last night's finale.

The map table lit up. 

Jace, Luc, and Rhaenys flying off from Dragonstone. But one of them will not return.

Aemond, revealing his sapphire eye.

The lightening flash, revealing the positively enormous Vhagar flying above Arrax.

That moment gave me chills. Especially as it showed tiny little Arrax was smaller than Vhagar's head. 

Poor Luc and Arrax, moments before the end. 

Aemond's "WTAF have I done?" 

You brought a weapon of mass destruction to a knife fight. Against a boy. And kicked off a war. 

Rhaenyra's thoughts of peace turned to ash as she realizes her son is dead at the hands of the Greens. 

Emma's pain was palpable. 

[aghst]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

Luke slashed his eye, Jace threw dirt and Aemond wasnt going after anybody, he was just trying to go home when they confronted him.

🙄

Yeah Amond is a totally chill dude.

He didn't have a rock cocked in his arm ready to brain all of them.

But an eye for a dragon and a life is a fair tradeoff isn't it?

[Diapason Untuned]

14 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Vhagar has to be the most inconvenient dragon to have. I imagine finding a good spot to park that thing must be tough, and she seems like a gas guzzler too.

Cost in sheep must be terrible high

13 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I kind of wonder how next season will develop the Greens, since the writers tipped their hands so much by favoring the Blacks. In the land of the Blacks, parents and children love each other. Promises are kept. There's usually no gratuitous cruelty.

In the land of the Greens, the king is a rapist, Alicent's two head honchos are psychos, and Aemond killed Luke. Alicent does have nice feet I guess.

That look on Rhaenrya's face at the end does not presage good things though

11 hours ago, Cool Breeze said:

I wonder if the Baratheons will change sides now given Aemond's killing of his nephew.  No word-parsing here.  He killed him.  And the Baratheons have more than enough reason to believe it was intentional given Aemond's actions in their castle. 

Perhaps they'll determine Aemond, and by extension, the Greens, are unstable psychopaths who can't be trusted and to whom he doesn't want any of his daughters betrothed?  And then, maybe Baratheon will reverse course and decide to uphold his father's original oath to Rhaenyra?  Maybe?

Doubtful. At the end of the day, Aemond obeyed his instructions. There was no bloodshed in his house. He has plenty of deniability, which is what he wanted.

Also, am I the only one who thinks Aemond was only upset at the end because he was serious about carving out Luke's eye and Vhagar took that away from him?

[jeansheridan]

7 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

then Luke is to be blamed  for going for a kill shot six years ago. 

Luce was defending his brother and as the smaller fighter, yeah you take your best shot. Which may have been why his dragon went for the big dragon's eyes too. The only option other than hiding. Which would have been smarter but I think Dany once said dragons always attack, never retreat when attacked. It's instinct.

4 minutes ago, aghst said:

But an eye for a dragon and a life is a fair tradeoff isn't it?

He got his revenge so yes, spiritually he should be good. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by jeansheridan

[Oscirus]

4 minutes ago, aghst said:

🙄

Yeah Amond is a totally chill dude.

He didn't have a rock cocked in his arm ready to brain all of them.

But an eye for a dragon and a life is a fair tradeoff isn't it?

3 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Luce was defending his brother and as the smaller fighter, yeah you take your best shot. Which may have been why his dragon when for the big dragon's eyes too. The only option other than hiding. Which would have been smarter but I think Dany one said dragons always attack, never retreat when attacked. It's instinct.

Knife only came out when he called them Strongs. At the time of the slashing, he was using the rock to defend himself.

Regardless, based upon that dinner not too long ago and knowing that Aemond was still holding a grudge, wasnt the smartest move going into storm's end when he saw vhagar there.

[ybrik]

forgot to mention this before but you can really tell that Otto has been planning this for a while because the king just died a couple of days ago and Otto and the Greens already have their own version of Targ sigil designed and ready to apparently fly on their ships. 

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, ybrik said:

forgot to mention this before but you can really tell that Otto has been planning this for a while because the king just died a couple of days ago and Otto and the Greens already have their own version of Targ sigil designed and ready to apparently fly on their ships. 

Yet he's not smart enough not to put himself completely at the mercy of the blacks.  As a traitor I imagine they couldve easily put his head on a pike without much pushback from the commonfolk.

[gingerella]

15 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

Luke didn't - poor scared little Arrax acted of his own accord out of fear. Both dragons acted independently of their riders in fighting.

Which goes back to the comment at the beginning if this epi where it sounded like this idea if using dragons for war was not a good move. If dragons are ultimately ungovernable them they could turn on each other I. Tbe eat of battle and screw over their own riders. That's all I got from that. 

By brown haired non-targ Targ..you were too sweet for this show.

I guess S02 will be scorched earth, pun intended...

BTW, how did news of Jace's death reach Dragonstone so quickly, and by what messenger? Because it didn't look like anyone was around except Jace and Aemond...

[Cristofle]

39 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Regardless, based upon that dinner not too long ago and knowing that Aemond was still holding a grudge, wasnt the smartest move going into storm's end when he saw vhagar there.

I mean...if the argument is that Luke underestimated what an unhinged psychopath Aemond apparently is...I guess. But it's an actual war crime to harm Luke as an envoy. Aemond has committed a war crime. They did not happen upon each other in a neutral place. No one will ever believe it's an accident, to the point where I still doubt he'll even try to pass it off as one. Luke was sent there as an envoy by his mother who is also his queen. Maybe Luke should have guessed that Aemond is the same spiteful, malicious, short-sighted brat he's been all his life, but he wasn't there for some unimportant reason. 

[Oscirus]

5 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I mean...if the argument is that Luke underestimated what an unhinged psychopath Aemond apparently is...I guess. But it's an actual war crime to harm Luke as an envoy. Aemond has committed a war crime. They did not happen upon each other in a neutral place. No one will ever believe it's an accident, to the point where I still doubt he'll even try to pass it off as one. Luke was sent there as an envoy by his mother who is also his queen. Maybe Luke should have guessed that Aemond is the same spiteful, malicious, short-sighted brat he's been all his life, but he wasn't there for some unimportant reason. 

If wanting revenge against someone who crippled you makes them a psychopath, then theres alot more psychopaths in the world than I thought.

Nobody cares about war crimes in this world other than maybe the starks and we see how far caring about such things gets them when they're not completely protected by plot armor.  

[Constantinople]

Rhaenyra (to Luke): Storm's End is a short flight from here. You have Baratheon blood from your grandmother, Rhaenys. And... Lord Borros is an eternally proud man. He will be honored to host a prince of the realm... and his dragon. I expect you will receive a very warm welcome.

Sad to think that of Rhaenyra's last words to her son was a lie.

[Cristofle]

8 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

If wanting revenge against someone who crippled you makes them a psychopath, then theres alot more psychopaths in the world than I thought.

Aemond can want whatever he wants. Acting on it in the manner he did means he might actually be dumber and less fit for the throne than his serial rapist brother. He put personal vengeance over the entire realm, and he was also apparently too stupid to realize he does not have full control over Vhagar. 

[LanceM]

so the way things stand now in terms of the major houses:

Aegon has the Lannisters, Baratheons and the Tyrells? (Though  oddly no mention of them)

Rhaenyra has the Velaryons and the Arryns which I am putting in her column only because Otto didn’t seem to bother reaching out to them.

That leaves the Starks and Tullys up for grabs.

[Oscirus]

1 minute ago, LanceM said:

so the way things stand now in terms of the major houses:

Aegon has the Lannisters, Baratheons and the Tyrells? (Though  oddly no mention of them)

Rhaenyra has the Velaryons and the Arryns which I am putting in her column only because Otto didn’t seem to bother reaching out to them.

That leaves the Starks and Tullys up for grabs.

Starks are honor bound you can probs put them on the blacks.

[absnow54]

5 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Nobody cares about war crimes in this world other than maybe the starks and we see how far caring about such things gets them when they're not completely protected by plot armor.  

It's very important in this instance though. Rhaenyra and Allicent are both trying to skate carefully through this conflict using diplomacy. Rhaenyra refused to follow the council of Daemon "War Crimes at the Stepstones" Targaryen, and Allicent would not allow Aegon or her father to assassinate Rhaenyra and her sons. Aemond killing Luke has taken diplomacy off the table, and opened the door to playing dirty.

Aemond just needed to wait out Daemon's inevitable war crimes, before taking out his need for revenge.