S01.E09: The Green Council

[Oscirus]

Perhaps Im having a comprehension problem but they're saying she didnt kill the greens cuz she respects Alicent as a mother?

https://ew.com/tv/house-of-the-dragon-rhaenys-dragon-eve-best-episode-9/

The more I read about this the more aggrieved Im getting

[CountryGirl]

On another note, if Rhaenys had torched them all, I'm not sure what we'd be left with, show-wise. Rhaenyra and Daemon would hold all the cards and the dragons. There would be no "Dance." 

And as much as I don't want to see anything happen to the dragons (including those fighting with Team Green), that is the main point of the show.

I mean, we're not getting get HEA with HotD anymore than we got this with GoT.

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, aquarian1 said:

I also had to laugh when he asked Alicent if she loved him and she didn't even answer.

She did answered: "You are a fool!" And he was exactly such by asking such a question en route to his crowning which was only arranged thanks to her mom and grandpa.

Worse, it was again one scene where the writers made characters modern people.

[jeansheridan]

19 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Smiles.  But who will control Aemond?

Hmmm. He seems to have self control but maybe his sister.

[go4luca]

6 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Exactly what have Alicent and company done to Rhaenys personally and she only very recently kind of, sort of, joined Rhaenyra's party. Why is she having a strong desire for revenge against these people? If anything, she should want to punish Rhaenyra and Daemon because she thinks they killed her son.

Just my take but locking Rhaenys her in her room thus preventing her from leaving and letting Rhaenyra know what is going on?  By not being fully informed or allowed to leave, how can Rhaenys be sure her granddaughters are safe?

[Constantinople]

Lord Beesbury: The King was well last night... by all accounts. Which of you here can swear that he died of his own accord?

I get that Beesbury was a little emotional after having already used the T word, but there is no circumstance under which Viserys could be described as "well". Just yesterday or the day before Viserys dragged himself across the throne room and passed right by Beesbury.

[Oscirus]

3 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

She did answered: "You are a fool!" And he was exactly such by asking such a question en route to his crowning which was only arranged thanks to her mom and grandpa.

Worse, it was again one scene where the writers made characters modern people.

Yep, she called him an imbecile but isn't she setting herself up for failure   not convincing the future king that she loves him.? If anything she should be using her "love" to control him.

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, go4luca said:

Just my take but locking Rhaenys her in her room thus preventing her from leaving and letting Rhaenyra know what is going on?  By not being fully informed or allowed to leave, how can Rhaenys be sure her granddaughters are safe?

I imagine she knows they left with their father and rhaenyra. Likely some sort of Baela dropping by later to pick up her things

[go4luca]

8 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Perhaps Im having a comprehension problem but they're saying she didnt kill the greens cuz she respects Alicent as a mother?

https://ew.com/tv/house-of-the-dragon-rhaenys-dragon-eve-best-episode-9/

The more I read about this the more aggrieved Im getting

Lots of views on this board which keeps it interesting. 

I'm the opposite.  The more I read makes me respect Rhaenys (and thus Eve Best), even more.  Based on her performance in recent episodes, I think she would have made one heck of a queen.

[Meredith Quill]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

We can't assume that the faith of the Seven is parallel to Christianity's take on marital fidelity.

But even if we do, there are Christians who believe/rationalize/call it what you will that only penis-in-vagina sex is being unfaithful, and that a woman isn't losing her virginity when she has anal sex, oral sex, or engages in other forms of sexual behavior.

Call me sceptical but I somehow doubt Viserys (or any married man, particularly nobles) would have agreed that his queen behaving that way is all fine, no problemo, a-okay - if that's what you're saying without saying here?

[go4luca]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

I imagine she knows they left with their father and rhaenyra. Likely some sort of Baela dropping by later to pick up her things

But that doesn't mean the Greens don't already have a plan in motion to take out her granddaughters.

[arachne]

So far I'm on Team Rhaenyra. Which means she or Daemon will probably do something reprehensible before the season ends, 🙄

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, aquarian1 said:

Speaking of Aegon...  for a while there I thought(hoped) he'd off himself with that dagger.  I also had to laugh when he asked Alicent if she loved him and she didn't even answer.

I cackled at this. 

On another note, as much as I wasn't caring for Tom in the part, his Aegon is growing on me (I mean, I'm hating him vs "meh").

Also, when he was cowering behind his equally bug-eyed momma, Alicent, their eyes were very similar, so good on casting after all. 

Also, I have a wee confession. I'm a bit attracted to Ewan's Aemond. I can't help but like him. I think it's the eye-patch that clinched it for me, but yeah, a little bit side-eyeing myself. 

I guess I love that bad-boy swagger, see also Daemon.

The cloaks don't hurt either. I think the mark of a true bad-ass is a cloak.

Daemon:

Rhaenys:

Otto (even though I hate him with all of Vhagar's firepower):

Aemond, as noted above, and Krispy Kreme (TM @SilverStormm), oh wait, not you, KK...you just have that stupid hat. Bless your heart.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Just now, go4luca said:

Just my take but locking Rhaenys her in her room thus preventing her from leaving and letting Rhaenyra know what is going on? 

She managed to not go on a murderous rampage when she was snubbed for the throne and when her son was (not really) murdered, you would think that an arrest that lasted about day if not less wouldn't be that aggravating.

I read more of the interview and came across this:

Quote

That's the mark of greatness and [a] truly inspiring moment — I think actually one that is particularly resonate in this context of what we're going through right now in our world with everything that's going on with Russia. The choice not to drop the bombs is the greater choice."

Weird comparison. Bombs usually can't kill whoever ordered the war the begin, Rhaenyra could target the actual traitors and end the war then and there, instead she caused "collateral damage" just like bombs are prone to do in our world and left. I am really puzzled how this is a mark of greatness. Best's acting performance was stellar, mind you, but if the writers share those views on what the scene was supposed to mean, I have to wonder what they are smoking. Then again, the show did try to present that fool Viserys and a wise ruler too, so maybe they are indeed smoking something strong.

[Meredith Quill]

1 minute ago, go4luca said:

But that doesn't mean the Greens don't already have a plan in motion to take out her granddaughters.

Indeed, team Green was all set to set aside Rhaenys and her granddaughters in favour of Vaemond before Viserys did his final - boss - walk to the throne that day. Rhaenys knows team Green are not in her grandaughters best interests whatsoever.

[Roseanna]

4 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Rhaenys suggests that Alicent should take the Iron Throne, and at the same time, implies that she would back Alicent.

However, since Alicent doesn’t want to do that, Rhaenys isn’t willing to put her support on an unfit King with unfit men behind him. I’m largely guessing here. Therefore, the choice is between a group of unfit men who will continue the same fuckery they’ve always done and Rhaenyra, who may be a radical and revolutionary change for the better even if it’s just a little bit.

I don't believe Rhaenys suggested Alicent to take the Iron Throne - except perhaps to cause discord between Alicent and Otto in order to help Rhaenyea to win.

Rhaenys knows full well that only Aegon and Aemond as well as Rhaenyra and Daemon could claim the throne because of their bloodline which Alicent lacks. 

Theoretically, Alicent could win the throne by a military coup like Catherine Great in Russia in the 18th century but unlike her, Alicent's allies are only Criston and Larys. And she had to kill her father first.    

[go4luca]

Just now, Jack Shaftoe said:

She managed to not go on a murderous rampage when she was snubbed for the throne and when her son was (not really) murdered, you would think that an arrest that lasted about day if not less wouldn't be that aggravating.

It would be if you were of noble birth and previously allowed to come and go as you pleased.  Just my take.  🤷‍♀️

Just now, Jack Shaftoe said:

I read more of the interview and came across this:

Weird comparison. Bombs usually can't kill whoever ordered the war the begin, Rhaenyra could target the actual traitors and end the war then and there, instead she caused "collateral damage" just like bombs are prone to do in our world and left. I am really puzzled how this is a mark of greatness. Best's acting performance was stellar, mind you, but if the writers share those views on what the scene was supposed to mean, I have to wonder what they are smoking. Then again, the show did try to present that fool Viserys and a wise ruler too, so maybe they are indeed smoking something strong.

I purposely left the final part of Eve's EW quote out since it borders on politics which isn't allowed on these boards.  But if this type of quote is okay, good for me to know.

[Roseanna]

11 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Yep, she called him an imbecile but isn't she setting herself up for failure   not convincing the future king that she loves him.? If anything she should be using her "love" to control him.

If Aegon doubts his mother's love, why would he believe her if she said so?

We have him say earlier "nothing I did was enough for you", but really, we have never seen him doing anything praiseworthy. As a boy he bullied his kid brother and as a man he raped that servant girl and in both cases he was harsly but justly reproached by Alicent.

[Oscirus]

10 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

If Aegon doubts his mother's love, why would he believe her if she said so?

We have him say earlier "nothing I did was enough for you", but really, we have never seen him doing anything praiseworthy. As a boy he bullied his kid brother and as a man he raped that servant girl and in both cases he was harsly but justly reproached by Alicent.

He might just need affirmation, regardless, its its still stupid to tell the future king you dont like/love him when you're expecting to control him. Especially if its as his mother

[go4luca]

16 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Criston continues to be bionic -- if anything, he's gotten YOUNGER looking.

I'm convinced several of them, including Daemond, have portraits stashed in their attics.

[Jack Shaftoe]

3 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

He might just need affirmation, regardless, its its still stupid to tell the future king you dont like/love him when you're expecting to control him. Especially if its as his mother

The entire Green faction behaves as if Aegon is, say, 5, and they can reliably rule in his name for a long time. He is an adult, he should have his own huge entourage of hangers-on with their own agenda, while Otto and company should be wondering what might happen once this loose cannon is king and whether it's really worth it to risk it all to put a reluctant fool who hasn't promised them any rewards on the throne.

[Constantinople]

I'm not sure what to think about Rhaenys departure from King's Landing.

One could argue that killing everyone in the dragonpit was unfortunate, but ultimately saved far more lives had she snuffed out Alicent, Aegon, etc (and kind of unpleasantly reminds me of Season 7 of Game of Thrones when Daenerys should have ended the war about 6 seconds after landing on Dragonstone).

By sparing Alicent & Co., Rhaenys is acknowledging their humanity but seems to be denying the humanity of the smallfolk.

[sistermagpie]

13 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Oh and kudos to that Lannister! He wisely got out of the way of the two Kingsguards having a pissing match. He seems innately funny.

Friend of mine really nailed it saying he has this ability to effortlessly look richer than everybody else. Like he's some Silicon Valley billionaire who's always asking if any of this was worth him having to miss his workout or something.

6 hours ago, The Kings Foot said:

My question is how on earth do this transactions even start ? And would Alicent agree to this ?

Oh, guys like that are very good at starting these transactions, don't worry. And Alicent never have to agree out loud.

5 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Rhaenys suggests that Alicent should take the Iron Throne, and at the same time, implies that she would back Alicent.

I can't believe she'd honestly be suggesting that because it would be about as likely as her foot fetish guy claiming the throne. She's a woman with no royal blood. How would she even make a claim?

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

There didn't seem to be any trying to misunderstand in my book.

To recap:

V: "Don't you remember? Aegon?"

A: "Our son?"

V: "...his dream? The Song of Ice and Fire? It is true. What he saw in the North. The Prince that was Promised."

A: "I don't understand, Viserys."

V: "The Prince"

A: "Prince Aegon?"

V: "To unite the realm against the cold and the dark. It is you. You are the one. You must do this. You must do this."

To someone like Ali who had never heard of the Song of Ice and Fire or the Prince that was Promised, I don't know if there would be too many plausible explanations for this beyond a. he's just rambling and should be ignored or b. he is saying that Aegon is the prince that was promised to unite the realm rather than divide it as Rhae's rule threatens to do since as we have been told time and again, much of Westeros would not see a woman rule.

Her choosing b. over a. here and claiming that he so clearly said he was changing his mind absolutely sounds like trying to misunderstand--or more accurately, projecting what she wants to hear onto what to her, without the context of the previous convos, arel ramblings. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

She's a woman with no royal blood. How would she even make a claim?

Well, Cersei became a Queen without having any claim whatsoever and many viewers loved it. 🙂

[Avabelle]

1 hour ago, arachne said:

So far I'm on Team Rhaenyra. Which means she or Daemon will probably do something reprehensible before the season ends, 🙄

I assume they will have to do something insane because at some point they’re going to want to walk back what a power hungry yet weak willed pain in the hole Alicent is.

[bunnyblue]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Does Helaena have a dragon? I can't see her being much use in a fight, she seems to be on the high end of the spectrum. 

Helaena's dragon is Dreamfyre. But I agree, I don't see her taking part in any dragon fights in the war. I was actually surprised to see her flying away from Driftmark with her brothers. I genuinely don't know how having Dreamfyre on their side is of any help to Team Green when her rider is so passive and uninvolved in the political scheming. It's not like anyone else can borrow Dreamfyre and take her to war. 

[paigow]

27 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

The entire Green faction behaves as if Aegon is, say, 5, and they can reliably rule in his name for a long time. He is an adult,

He is legally an adult, but Johnny Lawrence level dumb... 

[Colorado David]

2 things: the scene with one of the brothers and Aemond running down the stairs outside. There is something Benny-Hillish when two dudes fighting have to hit every single little step rather than hopping 2-3 at a time.

Second - Aemond reminds me of the Hitcher.  

[paigow]

Harrenhall will soon have the first nail salon that PAYS YOU to get a pedicure...

[GustavMahler]

17 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Allicent putting on a foot show for Larys’ “amusement” was something I did not need to see.

Hey, it could have been worse. Just imagine if we witnessed the origin of the "Show me your feet." conversation. An uneasy flashback for many who tried online dating services. 

[Avabelle]

Alicent insisting that Viscerys actually wanted Aegon The Rapist to be king through some incoherent babbling on his deathbed when he had literally declared that day and for years before that it was Rhaenyra he wanted as successor just sums up how weak willed her entire character arc is.

This show has become such a difficult watch. There’s no justification for what the Hightowers are doing other than pure greed. They can attempt to make Alicent more sympathetic by having her throw confused looks whenever someone is murdered but really it just makes an already weak character look stupider.

Also Ser Criston is just as pathetic and dick driven as he ever was. It’s obvious he’s madly in love with Alicent at this point which she uses to do her dirty work in the same Way she allowed Larys to wank over her feet… yet Rhaenyra is supposed to be the loose and immoral one? 

Game of Thrones at least had some characters to root for that would come up trumps from season to season. I’m never going to root for Hightowers so I can’t see when any of this will become an enjoyable watch.

[paigow]

17 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

Game of Thrones at least had some characters to root for that would come up trumps from season to season.

Everyone will end up rooting for the Lannisters & Starks.. in 2026

[bunnyblue]

3 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

And I'm so happy Meleys escaped because at the end of the day, I care the most about the dragons.

While I root for certain characters and want Team Black to win, ultimately all I care about is the safety of ALL the dragons - even those on Team Green; because those poor creatures would probably be happiest just hanging out together, roasting goats, and taking naps on the beach. Laena should have just left Vhagar alone because the poor old girl just wanted to retire and now she and all the other dragons have been pulled into the humans' war.

3 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I noticed that Matt Smith and Emma D'Arcy were not in the opening credits. All I thought was "Fuck me. A full hour of insufferable fucking Hightowers?"

Yeah I had the same thought. This was my least favorite episode of the season, and mostly because it was dedicated entirely to the Hightowers.

2 hours ago, go4luca said:

"She's packed it," Best notes of Rhaenys' battle attire. "She's traveled to King's Landing with it because it's part of her dragon-riding equipment.

That's what I thought because I assume the dragon saddles have some sort of storage compartment (like the trunk of a car) for the rider to store some necessities while on dragon back. It's not like the dragons would mind a little extra weight on their backs. Rhaenys got to Meleys, popped open the trunk, put on her armor over her black dress, and busted out of the dragon pit.

[Avabelle]

4 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

Yeah I had the same thought. This was my least favorite episode of the season, and mostly because it was dedicated entirely to the Hightowers.

I’m not sure if the point of the episode was to justify why they’re usurping the throne or highlight just how ridiculous and power hungry they are. Either way they are awful and the episode was awful.

Watching Otto get everything he’d clearly planned from the moment Aemma died was so far the most frustrating part of an already incredibly frustrating series.

[Oscirus]

33 minutes ago, GustavMahler said:

Hey, it could have been worse. Just imagine if we witnessed the origin of the "Show me your feet." conversation. An uneasy flashback for many who tried online dating services. 

I imagine its gonna get worse as the series moves on. Its eventually not gonna stop at the feet. Ottos already hinted that the 2 spend alot of time together

[Avabelle]

So Rhaenys gets the dragon, kills a load of Civilians, practically gives Alicent a wink and then heads off.

I am so full of rage at this shit show.

[Jack Shaftoe]

36 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

Alicent insisting that Viscerys actually wanted Aegon The Rapist to be king through some incoherent babbling on his deathbed when he had literally declared that day and for years before that it was Rhaenyra he wanted as successor just sums up how weak willed her entire character arc is.

The writers are clearly reluctant to portray Alicent as dirtying her hands, so she is usually reduced to meekly approving whatever intrigue or atrocity the men in her life come up with. Which would be fine if there weren't also clear undertones of "Look at long-suffering Alicent, she would have made a good Queen". Even Rhaenys bizarrely wonders why Alicent hasn't claimed the throne.

[Oscirus]

3 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

So Rhaenys gets the dragon, kills a load of Civilians, practically gives Alicent a wink and then heads off.

I am so full of rage at this shit show.

Didnt that twin also imply that the dragon pitt was heavily guarded? Did they just happen to be on their coffee break when she went to get her dragon?

[Avabelle]

3 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

The writers are clearly reluctant to portray Alicent as dirtying her hands, so she is usually reduced to meekly approving whatever intrigue or atrocity the men in her life come up with. Which would be fine if there weren't also clear undertones of "Look at long-suffering Alicent, she would have made a good Queen". Even Rhaenys bizarrely wonders why Alicent hasn't claimed the throne.

Alicent plays the martyr. She’s greedy, power hungry and full of jealousy and hatred towards Rhaenyra. Yet whenever her plans come to fruition she tries to be all “oh I don’t want bloodshed, woe is me I’m so conflicted and carrying the weight of the world”. The Sad thing is I’m starting to feel the writers have as big a hard on for her as Larys and Criston do.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Avabelle

[go4luca]

Anyone else catch the slight changes in the opening credits last night?

I thought something had changed & apparently it did.

According to Insider this is the first time the opening credits have shown a clear symbol for both Alicent, her three children, and now her grandchildren. 

 

Spoiler

The credits also confirm something George R.R. Martin revealed in a blog post last week: Alicent and Viserys have a fourth child named Daeron. 

[The Kings Foot]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It was necessary to reveal elements of both Ali and Larys' characters. 

What elements  ? That Larys is a creep and Alicent is compromised ?   We  already knew that. 

3 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

It's a world where everyone with influence uses ravens for messages, Rhaenyra should learn about Viserys' death long before anyone not flying on a dragon can reach Dragonstone. I 

  When Otto gave that order, it was still early morning.  Noone outside the castle knew  (except for the White Worm but Otto didnt know that). All the servants were imprisoned. 

Dragonstone is the other side of of Blackwater Bay  from Kings Landing.   If  the KG moved immediately they could reach there in a day at worst and be only hours behind  Rhaenyra.  If the KG had agreed Otto would probably have simply locked down the castle for a day.

And better yet Otto would probably send his own raven telling Rhaneyra  that the Kingsguard were coming to deliver something important from the King.  Again remember this is literally the day after the Last Supper. Rhaenyra would still be expecting  reconciliation 

Finally everyone with influence doesnt use ravens.  Ravens are used by the Maesters.  No maester, no raven.  

Edited October 17, 2022 by The Kings Foot

[bluvelvet]

So genetics in the show/world is so interesting, or should I say plot driven. Even Aegon's bastards have the white blonde hair, all of Alicent's children have Targaryen features but Rhaenyra's three sons with a non-Targ/Valaryan has Strong features...

Edited October 18, 2022 by bluvelvet

[Dac22]

57 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

The writers are clearly reluctant to portray Alicent as dirtying her hands

It's too the point where she has been made naive to a staggering degree.

As early as episode six, she was telling Aegon he was going to be king. She might not have known about Otto's plans, even if he wasn't exactly subtle about them since Aegon was born, but she was still gunning to take the throne from Rhaenyra.

So how was she going to accomplish that without using some force?

Did she expect Rhaenyra to just give it up after a talk? Did she expect Viserys to change his mind after decades of him defending Rhaenyra? Aside from a genuine tragic accident to Rhaenyra and her kids, how was Aegon going to be put on the throne?

Then we have the whole miscommunication bit to justify her pushing for Aegon to be king despite the fact she was telling him he was going to be king long before that.

There's also interviews from those involved where they talk about about how she is surrounded by the toxicity of the likes of Otto, Larys, and Criston. While it's true of the first two, Criston is her own creation and tool that she uses as he's driven by loyalty to her as of now.

She knew everything Criston had done before she recruited him and has enabled him at every turn since then. They can't play the "woe is me" card there when she has all the power. 

Wanting to make Alicent a sympathetic character is one thing, they've just done it in a haphazard way that hasn't really helped either her character or the story in my opinion.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Dac22

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

Maybe not. Otto thinks he is a brilliant chess player, but we have seen that he does not think long-term. For example, he convinced Viserys to name Rhaenyra heir to solve the immediate problem of Daemon being next in line, but he didn’t stop to consider the potential future problem Rhaenyra being heir would cause if the king having a son with another wife. Duh. He never attempted to cultivate Rhaenyra’s favor even though she was the king’s daughter and heir. Everyone knows the best manipulators play both sides.

I think Otto did think about the future problem of Rhae being heir would cause when his daughter bore Viserys a son. His whole strategy was predicated on the notion that he could persuade either Viserys or enough of the influential lords to back up his grandson because ew, who wants girl cooties on the Iron Throne.

He may have underestimated Viserys's devotion to Rhae, but as far as we have seen so far, he's not wrong about being able to get enough lords on Team Green to have a fighting chance.

There's no way to cultivate Rhae's favor once he has a male heir in line, at least in his mind. As long he lives, there were going to be lords who won't stand for a Queen Rhae actually ruling.

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I didn't get why there seemed to be a race between Criston Cole and the Twin Brothers to find Aegon. Criston was looking for Alicent and the Twins were instructed to bring Aegon directly to Otto. Why the competition? Alicent and Otto both wanted the same thing.

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yes, but so what if Otto got to him first? It's not as if Alicent wouldn't have had time to speak to Aegon before the coronation. They have to send someone over to Dragonstone and - oh yeah - they have dragons over there so it's not going to be easy to take Rhaenyra by force. That's why I didn't get the whole "race to find Aegon" competition between Otto and Alicent. It's not as if they had Rhaenyra right there in a prison cell or anything. Or that Otto would be able to prevent Alicent from seeing Aegon or talking to him if he found him first. 

Aegon is a very pliable person. The first to get ahold of him can try to get him on board with their agendas, which although it is generally the same (King Aegon II) have different routes of getting there.

Otto is fine with trying to kill Rhae, Daemon, and the rest of their family in their sleep.

Ali wants to give Rhae a chance to come to terms with King Aegon II. 

It might be easy to take Rhae out when she is not aware that Viserys has died and not expecting an attack.

13 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

What elements  ? That Larys is a creep and Alicent is compromised ?   We  already knew that. 

We did not know the particulars of Larys's creepiness or that Ali has compromised herself in this particular way. 

[go4luca]

6 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Aegon is a very pliable person. The first to get ahold of him can try to get him on board with their agendas, which although it is generally the same (King Aegon II) have different routes of getting there.

You make some very astute points but for this bolded part.  Is Aegon still pliable?  Now that he's had a taste of being King?  His volatile nature is very concerning.

[sistermagpie]

19 minutes ago, Dac22 said:

 Did she expect Viserys to change his mind after decades of him defending Rhaenyra?

Apparently yes and it finally worked out.

14 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Aegon is a very pliable person. The first to get ahold of him can try to get him on board with their agendas, which although it is generally the same (King Aegon II) have different routes of getting there.

Only in certain directions, though. His mom's been trying to get him to stop being a raping dirtbag for years now with no success. He's pliable, but only if you can convince him whatever you want him to do is gonna be awesome.

[jane1978]

15 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

Otto too. To have already had a secret plan in place to usurp Rhaenyra and have her and her family killed; to threaten the lords and ladies to swear fealty to Aegon and have those who wouldn't do it killed; it's just all so infuriating. This episode really upset me.

Are you suggesting the situation would be different if Daemon and Rhae were the one in charge? He would want to get rid of Alicent´s kids too. And all the Hightowers and their sympathizers as well. There would be a lot of opposition against the queen who just returns from her voluntary exile and has zero idea about wre things are going. Especially if she was forced to either kill or atleast lock in dungeon most of the kingdoms current "government".

[cambridgeguy]

3 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

I know I shouldn't be criticizing actors whose job includes always defending writers' choices even if they think said choices are nonsensical but what revenge? Exactly what have Alicent and company done to Rhaenys personally and she only very recently kind of, sort of, joined Rhaenyra's party. Why is she having a strong desire for revenge against these people? If anything, she should want to punish Rhaenyra and Daemon because she thinks they killed her son.

The Hightowers and Velaryons have been portrayed as big rivals.  If she truly considers herself a Velaryon then yeah, Otto and Alicent are the ones who blocked Laena from being queen.  Aemond's the one who "stole" Vhagar right out from under her granddaughter.   Family honor and all that.

4 minutes ago, go4luca said:

You make some very astute points but for this bolded part.  Is Aegon still pliable?  Now that he's had a taste of being King?  His volatile nature is very concerning.

He's still a moron, so a clever person could manipulate him.  The problem is that I'm not sure he is as intimidated of Otto as Joffrey was of Tywin.  Otto may be hoping that Aegon will be following the Robert Baratheon model of ignoring everything, which might be true in peacetime but likely won't be the case during a war.

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

Call me sceptical but I somehow doubt Viserys (or any married man, particularly nobles) would have agreed that his queen behaving that way is all fine, no problemo, a-okay - if that's what you're saying without saying here?

What I'm saying is that we don't know if the Faith of the Seven is going to frown on sex-adjacent activities, or whether it could be justified in Ali's mind as a necessary evil.

I think it's fairly safe to say that given the sexism of Westeros, there would be a social double standard as to it being fine if Viserys was screwing Larys (let alone just letting him jack off to Viserys's feet) even if socially it would be unacceptable for Larys to be jacking off to Ali's. 

But the one is not necessarily related to the other.

[Stardancer Supreme]

6 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I was surprised no one shot an arrow at her but have we seen crossbows yet? Has that tech been created? We have seen scorpions on Dragonstone. I was waiting for her to take an arrow and then her dragon killed.

I'm willing to bet that since the Red Keep is populated by dragons, there would be no weapons designed to kill them there.  Other regions in Westeros? Possibly.

5 hours ago, Cristofle said:

I don't know why people don't listen to Helaena more, heh. Once again, she flinched at being touched by Alicent - I wonder what she sees when she looks at her mother, because it doesn't seem to be anything good. 

Let's remember that Helaena never really had any bond with Alicent.  When she was born, she was always screaming her head off whenever Alicent held her. Her birth must not have been as "easy" as Aegon's...

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I didn't get why there seemed to be a race between Criston Cole and the Twin Brothers to find Aegon. Criston was looking for Alicent and the Twins were instructed to bring Aegon directly to Otto. Why the competition? Alicent and Otto both wanted the same thing.

What happened to Laenor's dragon? Did he manage to take it with him? Also, who are the three dragons Team Green has? I know Aegon and Aemon both have dragons. Does Helaena have a dragon? I can't see her being much use in a fight, she seems to be on the high end of the spectrum. 

It was a race to see who would ultimately control the new King.  Alicent knew that Otto would have Aegon cosign all kinds of heinous shyt if he had Aegon's ear.

Helaena has a dragon.  When Viserys and crew goes back to King's Landing after Laena's funeral, you see 3 dragons flying back while the rest of the family was on the boat.

Laenor's dragon? If Sea Smoke didn't follow Laenor to Essos, he is probably at Driftmark.