S01.E01: The Heirs of the Dragon

[Cirien]

4 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

OK, this is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I'm still okay with Otto. His advice to the king was consistently good, and he was willing to put his neck out there insulting the king's own brother. The part where he tries to set up his teenaged daughter with the king, though? In modern society, I agree that is a creepy move. But in a society where she's going to be married to somebody anyway? And money and power are expected to be major factors in that decision? Well, the king is pretty rich and powerful. And, except for that one thing that happened at the very very end, he seemed to be in an actual loving relationship with his first wife, so it's unlikely he'd suddenly turn cruel toward the second one. Also, he's getting up there in years, so she won't have to bang him for that long anyway. And she might even be able to convince him to buy a better quality shaving razor. Within the admittedly lamentable restrictions of a patriarchal pseudomedieval society, it's a winning plan.

Agree with all of this Viserys seemed to adore his wife and had real affection for her, so frankly Alicent would be in very good place if she did get married to him. How Rhaenya feels about it should that happen however....

[MBayGal]

One other thing--where was this filmed? The outdoor sets looked cheap and faked. GoT was filmed in several different countries, but it doesn't look like they are doing that here.  I have a bad feeling about HBO's new corporate overlords, but this had to have been filmed before the latest takeover, so it might get even worse.  Can't we still have any nice things?

[AntFTW]

11 hours ago, MBayGal said:

One other thing--where was this filmed? The outdoor sets looked cheap and faked. GoT was filmed in several different countries, but it doesn't look like they are doing that here.  I have a bad feeling about HBO's new corporate overlords, but this had to have been filmed before the latest takeover, so it might get even worse.  Can't we still have any nice things?

Well, I would think that the multiple plots taking place all over the GOT world from The North to King’s Landing to Dorne in Westeros and across the sea to Braavos and Meereen and everywhere else in Essos.

GOT had to look like different parts of the world. This show seems like it will primarily take place in King’s Landing surrounding one family so shooting in multiple locations across several countries may not be as much of a necessity but I guess we’ll see what the show brings throughout the season.

Edited August 22, 2022 by AntFTW

[MBayGal]

4 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

GOT had to look like different parts of the world. This show seems like it will primarily take place in King’s Landing surrounding one family so shooting in multiple locations across several countries may not be as much of a necessity but I guess we’ll see what the show brings throughout the season.

i wasn't disappointed that this all took place in one country. My disappointment was that after GoT filmed in actual locations and so looked realistic, the outdoor scenes here looked cheap and shabby by comparison.  

[Cigale]

From IMDB:  

Filming locations are England, Spain, Portugal, Croatia.

[goldilocks]

59 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

And she might even be able to convince him to buy a better quality shaving razor.

🤣 Viserys’ dark stubble is going to end up being the star of the show. 

[Glade]

The second I saw that dragon flying through the clouds, all I could think of was the lame and mundane end to the (last?) 3 dragons, 2 of which were really very easily killed.  It leaves a bad aftertaste, especially because the next shot is the dragon flying over kings landing...too many reminders.  I became confused about whether the Queen we were seeing was the passed over female heir we barely glimpsed in the succession opening, and had to go back and check, since everyone is wearing those horrid white wigs.  The CGI on this dragon is unconvincing IMO, it stands out far too much from it's background.  Everything after that is just a bunch of police brutality, mundane statecraft, and lurid graphic violence of all sorts. I have no desire to watch more of this, there was no hook for me, and honestly, I had my fill of this world/this author and refuse to stomach any more of this garbage.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Glade

[goldilocks]

24 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

i wasn't disappointed that this all took place in one country. My disappointment was that after GoT filmed in actual locations and so looked realistic, the outdoor scenes here looked cheap and shabby by comparison.  

I was wondering whether my HD was off because the whole thing looked like it was broadcast in SD. But the video online was in the same low quality. Is it cheap filming or are they purposely making it look murkier to depict a drabber picture of the time? We can use our imaginations,  show runners, give us our crisp visuals! 

[LoveLeigh]

I am thrilled this is back in all it's former glory. I speculate this will have many seasons. I loved this episode and it was not that hard to follow. As an aside, it looked to me in one early scene that Rhaenyra had braces on her upper teeth, lol. 

[steph369]

1 hour ago, CletusMusashi said:

And she might even be able to convince him to buy a better quality shaving razor.

Or at least mix up some herbs and flowers to equal Miss Clairol Platinum Blonde 000 to dab onto the stubble. 

I thought it was okay, nothing outstanding. We’ll see how it comes along. I’m in it at least for Matt Smith. He can elevate any show. I hope it gets better. Agree about the visuals. It looked muted. 

[bunnyblue]

For 3 years I convinced myself I was over everything GOT-related and would absolutely not watch HotD...and yet here I am. Sigh.

I went in completely spoiler-free and the only thing I knew was that this time it would be those crazy Targaryens fighting over that ugly throne. I like that we got a mix of decent Targs (Viserys, Aemma), villainous Targ (Daemon) and somewhere in-between Targs (Rhaenyra and Rhaenys). 

Did Otto Hightower really pimp out his young daughter to the much older King? Gross. I already don't like Hightower and even though Daemon is brutal and probably crazy, I was rooting for him to win out in the tug-of-war over the King.

Aemma had a horrible, painful, bloody death and the worst part was when she realized what was going to happen and begged for her life. She said she was over being a brood mare for the king and yet she died fulfilling her role of brood mare. So sad.

Bad wig aside, I loved Matt Smith as Daemon. From the lone trailer I'd seen I thought he was going to make a terrible Targaryen but I really liked his Daemon. Maybe it's because I'm currently reading a book about Richard III, but the relationship between Prince Daemon and King Viserys reminds me of the relationship between Edward IV and Richard III towards the end of Edward's reign: the once loyal but ambitious younger brother covets the throne and is unhappy with the King's rightful heir. Let's hope Rhaenyra isn't locked away at Dragonstone never to be heard from again.

I liked seeing King's Landing as it was during the reign of the Targaryens with all the dragon banners and statues and actual dragons. Was the Dragonpit where Rhaenyra landed her dragon the same one from GOT's season 7 & 8? I like that we got to see a bit more of the Red Keep like when Rhaenyra & Alicent walked through it on their way to visit Aemma. I thought I heard someone mention Dark Sister but I don't think we actually saw it. All these callbacks & seeing familiar places hurts a little because...well...GOT. But I'm going to try to put my bitter feelings aside and give this series a chance because I really did enjoy this first episode. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by bunnyblue

[jenn31]

24 minutes ago, steph369 said:

I’m in it at least for Matt Smith. He can elevate any show. I hope it gets better. Agree about the visuals. It looked muted. 

I’ve seen Matt Smith in a few things now and when he’s announced in a part, I often think he’s miscast, but he always proves me wrong. He really embodies his roles. And he didn’t disappoint here. 

I’m on the fence about the episode. I liked some of it, some of it not. But I’ll be back to watch more before I decide. 

[Rickster]

3 hours ago, MBayGal said:

i wasn't disappointed that this all took place in one country. My disappointment was that after GoT filmed in actual locations and so looked realistic, the outdoor scenes here looked cheap and shabby by comparison.  

It might not be the locations, but the CGI used to create the urban scenes, especially. It seemed to me to be a lot lower quality than was used in GoT, which was why at times it seemed blurry and not in HD and less realistic. That’s my theory anyway.

I will admit to dozing off in the middle of this and will try to catch up later, but the pilot of GoT grabbed me immediately, which this did not. I think GoT also benefited from a diversity of plotlines and locations, so if there was something you didn’t care for, you were probably going to be somewhere else in 10 minutes.

[cambridgeguy]

6 hours ago, aghst said:

Are they going to get rid of Viserys so quickly and make Raynera grow up fast?

It will be a miracle if he's still alive at the end of the season.  Corlys mentioned a minor threat, but the real conflict can't truly begin as long as Viserys is around to hold everything together (just like how Robert had to die for everything to really pick up).

6 hours ago, aghst said:

OK the Court intrigue is fine, that was a big part of GoT's appeal.  Or should I say familial strife, even though the show runners said Damon loves his niece Raynera

To his credit, he was able to act like a decent uncle and brother at the cremation.  Of course, since he's a Targaryen loving his niece could go in a very different direction.  That scene with the necklace was giving off creepy vibes, and now she's the heir too.

[Meredith Quill]

9 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

I assume the Kings now deceased wife was his sister, I wonder if the inbreeding had to do with all those unsuccessful pregnancies.

They were cousins.

9 hours ago, magdalene said:

For all the gore - it's going to be brutal watching this show - the most awful thing was watching Queen Emma being killed to bring forth the short  lived heir.  I couldn't help my modern self kinda going "karma got you there king, you should have chosen your wife over your child". But it probably would have made no difference sadly.

We seem to be in for a lot of explicit sex in addition to the over the top gore, just like in the mother ship. Bleh.

Daemon is a piece of work but I vastly prefer the hot headed dick head ruled by his ego and - err Targ-ness to an ambitious and back-stabbing schemer like Otto Hightower who turns out his own teen daughter to advance those ambitions.

Criston Cole looks just like a historical romance hero, doesn't he? Laughs.

What we saw of the dragons was awesome.

He couldn't have chosen the queen, her fate was sealed. The maester told him his choices; both die or they can try to save the baby. I did think it was shitty not to tell the queen though, after all what mother would choose 'no just let us both die'.

9 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Apparently technology doesn't evolve either LOL

I read on a list of characters that she's an Arryn from the Vale, but she's also a Targaryen descendant through a grandparent or a great grandparent or something like that.

Yup, she's an Arryn with Targ ancestry and cousin to the king.

9 hours ago, Amethyst said:

I figured Queen Aemma wasn't going to survive regardless of Viserys' choice.  The baby was stuck and they would have to get it out somehow.  But it was heartbreaking to see that poor woman lying there in agonizing pain, with no idea what was going on.  I think that she actually would have given her blessing to Viserys if he told her what was happening; if it meant the baby would survive, especially a boy.  He should have been begging for her forgiveness instead of muttering that "they're getting the baby" over and over.  I know Viserys would do what he wanted to anyway, but at least spare Aemma some dignity and give her decency of knowing her fate.  And they lost the baby, so it all ended up a waste.

Between the festering sore on his back and the Iron Throne literally pricking him til he bleeds, Viserys might want to be careful about what he's touching.  He's got enough to worry about with Daemon.

100% agree re the queen. 

[Constantinople]

7 hours ago, SeanC said:

Hey, next you're going to say that Otto sending his daughter to the king's chambers immediately afterward to start the process of making her his new wife was too forward.

At least someone is thinking about poor Viserys, alone except for his Lego set, abandoned by his brother, "Prince Heir for a Day", and a daughter who was told by Daemon off all people that she needed to be more compassionate towards her father.

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

OK, this is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I'm still okay with Otto. His advice to the king was consistently good, and he was willing to put his neck out there insulting the king's own brother. The part where he tries to set up his teenaged daughter with the king, though? In modern society, I agree that is a creepy move. But in a society where she's going to be married off to somebody anyway? And money and power are expected to be major factors in that decision? Well, the king is pretty rich and powerful. And, except for that one thing that happened at the very very end, he seemed to be in an actual loving relationship with his first wife, so it's unlikely he'd suddenly turn cruel toward the second one. Also, he's getting up there in years, so she won't have to bang him for that long anyway. And she might even be able to convince him to buy a better quality shaving razor. Within the admittedly lamentable restrictions of a patriarchal pseudomedieval society, it's a winning plan.

I didn’t have a problem with it. King Viserys seems nice and kind. He’s not the type that would ruin Alicent’s reputation and leave her with nothing. (Even if she just ended up as a mistress)

Alicent appears to be of marriageable age, and an older husband like King Viserys (even if he wasn’t king) wouldn’t be the worst choice. He’s rich, he’s nice to people, he’s not so elderly shes stuck playing nursemaid (he would have servants for that anyway). He might not love her like he did Aemma, but i can’t see him being anything besides nice and respectful towards her. 
 

Also- with a healthy young wife there’s a chance of more heirs. 

[Helena Dax]

I found it okay. Loved Daemon, who looks interesting, but the other characters were unremarkable. The dialogue was quite generic too: not bad, but forgettable. However, I enjoyed seeing King's Landing under the Targaryens and I hope new, more charismatic characters will come along.

Regarding the lack of technological evolution, it doesn't bother me too much because these worlds never really have it. When you heard the characters from GOT talking about the past, you could already tell that it had barely changed, and it's the same in TLOTR. There might be wars and new kings and queens, some conquest here and there, but vehicles,weapons and tools remain the same.

[paigow]

8 hours ago, peridot said:

I forgot to ask, what were those orbs they were putting in the Council's table?

The robot brains from Westworld

[Meredith Quill]

37 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I didn’t have a problem with it. King Viserys seems nice and kind. He’s not the type that would ruin Alicent’s reputation and leave her with nothing. (Even if she just ended up as a mistress)

Alicent appears to be of marriageable age, and an older husband like King Viserys (even if he wasn’t king) wouldn’t be the worst choice. He’s rich, he’s nice to people, he’s not so elderly shes stuck playing nursemaid (he would have servants for that anyway). He might not love her like he did Aemma, but i can’t see him being anything besides nice and respectful towards her. 
 

Also- with a healthy young wife there’s a chance of more heirs. 

I had a problem with it wrt TIMING. I mean jeez, his wife wasn't even cold in her grave yet... not classy Otto, not classy.

[AntFTW]

26 minutes ago, paigow said:

The robot brains from Westworld

Beat me to it 😂

[paigow]

51 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Also- with a healthy young wife there’s a chance of more heirs. 

who is not an obvious blood relative... healthier and saner heirs are likely...

[Guest]

I enjoyed it, though I had to close my eyes at a few scenes.

I don't think the king made the wrong choice with the Queen. He was presented with "Try to save the child or let them both die."  Maybe he should have told her what was happening, but as far as the actual choice, he didn't have much of one.  It was heart wrenching though.

[Scarlett45]

29 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

I had a problem with it wrt TIMING. I mean jeez, his wife wasn't even cold in her grave yet... not classy Otto, not classy.

Yeah understand what you are saying.

 I think Otto wanted to get King Viserys when he was emotionally impacted by grief and not making the most rational decisions. Again, he knows his King isn't the type to be violent or aggressive with his daughter. I think that night they actually read together and he carved his model Red Keep (which was gorgeous by the way).

Waiting a proper mourning period means another woman could catch the kings eye OR another family could push their daughter forward. Otto is an opportunist but I don't think he's a bad guy yet.

[Colorado David]

Well good episode to start. A bit gory at times, but that I spoze is to be expected.

Well done Matt Smith, I already despise your character tho you've done nothing save act like a tyrant and ass to those friends/family around you. And you were so lovable on Who, definitely a nice character turnaround. Your hair is a bit distracting tho, please chop it shorter.

Agreed, we need a more epic opening theme/sequence please. 

Need some more character development, but I think we're on a good track.

[Meredith Quill]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

1. I think Otto wanted to get King Viserys when he was emotionally impacted by grief and not making the most rational decisions. 

2. Waiting a proper mourning period means another woman could catch the kings eye OR another family could push their daughter forward. Otto is an opportunist but I don't think he's a bad guy yet.

1. Which makes him, to quote Daemon, "A cunt".

2. I'm not saying he's a bad guy but I am saying so far he's already proven himself a classless douchebag, jmo.

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yeah understand what you are saying.

 I think Otto wanted to get King Viserys when he was emotionally impacted by grief and not making the most rational decisions. Again, he knows his King isn't the type to be violent or aggressive with his daughter. I think that night they actually read together and he carved his model Red Keep (which was gorgeous by the way).

Waiting a proper mourning period means another woman could catch the kings eye OR another family could push their daughter forward. Otto is an opportunist but I don't think he's a bad guy yet.

The really dumb thing Otto did there is that by sending his 18 year old daughter to the king chambers alone, in the day/day after he becomes a widow, he is sending to the whole kingdom the message that she is a "whore". A girl of her positon sole asset, so to speak, is her capacity to have children, as Aemma pointed. There can't be doubts about the paternity, whoever's the father, even more if the idea is for said father down the road to be the king.

On another note, hello  folks. It has been what, three years? Time flies.

It was a good first episode. A bit too explanatory but I guess they didn't want a repeat of what happened in GoT that even after having it spelled on screen people didn't get that Jon was Lyanna and Rhaegar son, or why he had a claim to the throne.

I never cared much about the Targaryens, and for me wolves >>> dragons. I loved how these Targaryens - or at least Viserys and Rhaenyra - were self aware enough to know that without the dragons they are just like everybody else. No predistinated bullshit, fate or 'I'm so special boo hoo'. You have power because you have the power of the dragons, and rule Westeros because your dragons back up you. End of the story.

ETA because I posted before finishing.

I've never been a fan of Matt Smith, but I think he was a good example of a prime Targaryen: a bit crazy, kinda of competent, entittled,  spoiled, but with potential.

Viserys  had no choice because Aemma was going to die, but he was dick for not talking to her. He basically took her agency - not that she really had a choice, but you get my point. I'm sure all she needed was a single minute to understand what was going to help. No one deserves to die like butchered meat.

Speaking about butchered meat, the massacre of thieves, rapists, etc, as well as the orgy (?) scene were very poorly done. Don't get me wrong, I don't need to see them, and I know they wanted to establish this as a GoT child, but these were awful. Don't get even me started on the championship, that was lazing filmmaking.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Raachel2008

[Scarlett45]

10 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

The really dumb thing Otto did there is that by sending his 18 year old daughter to the king chambers alone, in the day/day after he becomes a widow, he is sending to the whole kingdom the message that she is a "whore". A girl of her positon sole asset, so to speak, is her capacity to have children, as Aemma pointed. There can't be doubts about the paternity, whoever's the father, even more if the idea is for said father down the rado to be the king.

That's the gamble though.

Scenario 1. Alicent becomes the king's mistress and he leaves her a lot of money, even if she had kids, he provides for them, they are half siblings (whether they are male or female) to the new heir Princess Rhaenyra (and Otto's grandkids, more power and influence).

Scenario 2. The king is honorable and is enamored with her, and doesnt proposition her sexually but offers to marry her, she conceives far after the wedding- he's now grandfather to the King's legitimate children, who have a 50/50 shot of being male, still one step closer to the Iron throne. 

Scenario 3. Nothing actually happens cause the king is grieving and not into her, but at least Otto tried, he is still the Hand of the King, he can secure his daughter a good marriage either way. 

[paigow]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Scenario 2. The king is honorable and is enamored with her, and doesnt proposition her sexually but offers to marry her, she conceives far after the wedding- 

Alicent: Hi BFF, you can call me StepMom now....

[Tatum]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I didn’t have a problem with it. King Viserys seems nice and kind. He’s not the type that would ruin Alicent’s reputation and leave her with nothing. (Even if she just ended up as a mistress)

Alicent appears to be of marriageable age, and an older husband like King Viserys (even if he wasn’t king) wouldn’t be the worst choice. He’s rich, he’s nice to people, he’s not so elderly shes stuck playing nursemaid (he would have servants for that anyway). He might not love her like he did Aemma, but i can’t see him being anything besides nice and respectful towards her. 
 

Also- with a healthy young wife there’s a chance of more heirs. 

I am confused by this. I thought Targaryens had to marry other Targaryens, so would Alicent even be in the running? If this is not so, then I don't understand what all the hand wringing about heirs would be- the King can just marry another young woman and start the clock over for potential heirs.

Practically speaking though, I think Hightower should have waited, and not even out of respect for the dead queen- I don't think the King would have been in any mood for any kind of "comfort" that soon after his wife died. I guess if Alicent was just there to keep him company (fully clothed) that is fine. I was terrified she was going to actually try to seduce him and we'd have to watch that cringefest. 

Between Hightower and Daemon I can't tell who the bad guy is supposed to be, but I actually don't mind Hightower that much. I liked that he told Daemon to stop insulting his (Daemon's) wife.

[Scarlett45]

8 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I am confused by this. I thought Targaryens had to marry other Targaryens, so would Alicent even be in the running? If this is not so, then I don't understand what all the hand wringing about heirs would be- the King can just marry another young woman and start the clock over for potential heirs.

Targaryens usually do marry other Targaryens (or cousins that married into other Westerosi houses), but it's not forbidden for them to marry other people.

Yes the King could marry again (if he wanted to), but there's no guarantee he would have another living son with a new wife (possible, but not guaranteed), and then you have an "infant heir problem". So while the King may marry again, the matter of the succession needs to be handled right now. An illness or accident could be the end of him. "Accident or Design" as the Maester said.

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I didn’t have a problem with it. King Viserys seems nice and kind. He’s not the type that would ruin Alicent’s reputation and leave her with nothing. (Even if she just ended up as a mistress)

Alicent appears to be of marriageable age, and an older husband like King Viserys (even if he wasn’t king) wouldn’t be the worst choice. He’s rich, he’s nice to people, he’s not so elderly shes stuck playing nursemaid (he would have servants for that anyway). He might not love her like he did Aemma, but i can’t see him being anything besides nice and respectful towards her. 
 

Also- with a healthy young wife there’s a chance of more heirs. 

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yeah understand what you are saying.

 I think Otto wanted to get King Viserys when he was emotionally impacted by grief and not making the most rational decisions. Again, he knows his King isn't the type to be violent or aggressive with his daughter. I think that night they actually read together and he carved his model Red Keep (which was gorgeous by the way).

Waiting a proper mourning period means another woman could catch the kings eye OR another family could push their daughter forward. Otto is an opportunist but I don't think he's a bad guy yet.

I think the same applies to Rhaenys' husband, whose name I can't seem to remember to save my life no matter how many times I read it, that he's an opportunist but not a bad guy... at least, not yet.

Otto (Hightower???) pushes his healthy young daughter who would probably fare better in childbearing, and producing an heir for the King. If that were to happen, Otto's descendants become the rulers of Westeros which I'm sure is what Otto wants and is chasing.

42 minutes ago, paigow said:

Alicent: Hi BFF, you can call me StepMom now....

..and you're gonna have a new little brother

[Tatum]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Targaryens usually do marry other Targaryens (or cousins that married into other Westerosi houses), but it's not forbidden for them to marry other people.

Yes the King could marry again (if he wanted to), but there's no guarantee he would have another living son with a new wife (possible, but not guaranteed), and then you have an "infant heir problem". So while the King may marry again, the matter of the succession needs to be handled right now. An illness or accident could be the end of him. "Accident or Design" as the Maester said.

Oh, for some reason I thought they "had" to marry within their own bloodline, which would severely limit the King's pool of applicants. Maybe I am thinking of another show.

I am curious about something else. Even though he has named his daughter as his heir, assuming he isn't either murdered or that back problem he's got doesn't kill him in the next year, he could potentially remarry, have a son, and then what, is his naming his daughter as his heir then revoked?

[Scarlett45]

2 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I am curious about something else. Even though he has named his daughter as his heir, assuming he isn't either murdered or that back problem he's got doesn't kill him in the next year, he could potentially remarry, have a son, and then what, is his naming his daughter as his heir then revoked?

I am assuming that's the drama that is going to follow. Also, his daughter is a teenager, much more likely to survive to adulthood and be able to rule. Even if he marries again and has healthy sons, they will be minors for a long ass time, would need a regent......the "infant heir problem". Would his daughter (who would be an adult) want to step aside for her infant (not a literal infant, but someone incapable of ruling independently) half brother??? Its gonna be JUICY.

[Tatum]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Waiting a proper mourning period means another woman could catch the kings eye OR another family could push their daughter forward. Otto is an opportunist but I don't think he's a bad guy yet.

I agree, plus, he's probably terrified of Daemon ascending and wants to nip that in the bud now. Interesting that the other guy (the one married to the Queen who never was) did push his own wife but also defended Daemon multiple times.  I can't tell who (solely) has their own agenda and who just thinks the King kind of sucks and needs to get his shit in order, feelings be damned.

ETA: I realize they ALL have their own agenda, but I assume at least a few of them are genuinely concerned for the future of Kings Landing and aren't just about reveling in their own power.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Tatum

[CountryGirl]

I am all in for this season based on what I've seen in E1.

While there's enough violence and brothel scenes to remind me this is a GoT prequel, it's the conversations that intrigue me here and did in the previous show. Yes, battles are exciting and I'll await the Dance of Dragons (as much as I'm already mourning the loss of dragons), but it's the relationships and their twists and turns dynamic that matter most for me. 

Pilot episodes are always about setting the stage and I think this one hit the ground running. I didn't mind the text at the beginning because goodness knows, there were some watching last night that likely were asking "Where's Dany?" "Where's Tyrion?" "How is the Red Keep still standing?"

To see the Red Keep standing tall, towering over King's Landing was wonderful and made me realize that for all that I hated how things went south in S8, I have really missed this world. 

The Iron Throne is back as well, still the same ugly hulk of occasionally-painful metal it once was, still the impetus for channeling equally ugly feelings of envy, anxiety, lust for power, and a willingness to screw over anyone and everyone for the privilege of putting one's backside upon it. Don't think I missed that Viserys was injured by it while younger brother and would-be-usurper Daemon looked as comfortable sprawled in it as one does in a recliner.

I think I will quite enjoy seeing the conflict play out mostly amongst the members of one very fucked-up family vs several warring houses spread out across what felt like a million continents in GoT. Although that's not to say I don't want to see a bit of what's going on outside of King's Landing. 

I also love seeing the talent that exists in this cast. Matt's appeal goes without saying, but he brings a caddish charm to his role as throne-obsessed Daemon with that little hint of vulnerability as he allows himself to be comforted by courtesan Mysaria. He's one I will likely love-to-hate or hate-to-love. Either way, bad wig or dark stubble notwithstanding, I'll watch the hell out of this for him alone. But I am enjoying the other players as well, especially Milly's younger Rhaenyra. 

The tourney juxtaposed against Queen Aemma's childbirth was very well done, even if brutal to watch. I agree that King Viserys should have said something - anything - to comfort her beyond his repeating: "They are bringing the child out." I'll admit I watched some of that butchery along with Daemon and the Gold Cloaks cleaning up the criminal element in the city behind my barely-splayed fingers.

Later, I loved the scene with Viserys and Rhaenyra and his acknowledging that he had wasted so much time, waiting for a male heir, when he had an heir right there with his daughter, as well as sharing the prophecy of the White Walkers' return. 

I'm reserving judgment on Otto and his daughter, Rhaenyra's bestie, Alicent, for the moment. Although TIME and PLACE, Otto. Aemma's ashes were still smoldering.

Even if this first episode wasn't up to par, I would still have been willing to give it a go because, duh, dragons and girl dragons to boot, but also, it takes time for a series to find its footing, even with a juggernaut predecessor, the necessary set-up etc., and I'm invested enough in what I've seen thus far to continue watching and enjoying the fact that the world of Westeros is once more on my screen. 

I think it's also a testament to the show that even knowing what happens by virtue of GoT, I'm still willing to watch it unfold. 

[Tatum]

Given how patriarchal this world is, I actually find it shocking the Queen who never was (can't remember her name) even had a chance of being named the successor. It seems the council preferred her over 12 other would be successors, who were most likely all men. I know they want to get the story going, but I wish they would have delved into that a little more. I assume the Queen who never was probably would have been a more competent ruler than her cousin, and was passed over for being a woman, but I am actually impressed she even made it as far as she did.

ETA: What is Alicent to Rhaenyra? I know they are friends, but does Alicent have a job? Is she like a tutor? She was quizzing Rhaenyra in one scene on history. What I am getting at is are they simply friends, or does Alicent actually serve Rhaenyra in some capacity?

Edited August 22, 2022 by Tatum

[Tachi Rocinante]

I'll stick around.

Never seen Matt Smith in anything before, but his voice is rather annoying.

[AntFTW]

45 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Given how patriarchal this world is, I actually find it shocking the Queen who never was (can't remember her name) even had a chance of being named the successor. It seems the council preferred her over 12 other would be successors, who were most likely all men.

I have wondered to myself and I have to ask... did she really have a chance? or was her "chance" just for show?

I haven't read any books about the GOT/HOTD/ASOIAF universe. Everything I know about this comes from this one episode, GOT, and a brief a list of characters of this show that I read.

From the opening, I got the impression that she had the better claim to the throne, over her cousin who was ultimately was crowned King. Also, I think Rhaenys' husband said that she was the daughter of the previous King's eldest son so I would think that she would be in direct line of succession from the previous king, to her father, and finally to her. However, this time period in the GOT/HOTG universe, the preference for succession seems to be any male Targargyen, and skip over direct descendants if they must.

Edited August 22, 2022 by AntFTW

[aghst]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

YAgain, he knows his King isn't the type to be violent or aggressive with his daughter. I think that night they actually read together and he carved his model Red Keep (which was gorgeous by the way).

Did that matter to him though?

Still remember the scene from GoT where Daenerys' brother told her he'd let all of Drogo's army and horses fuck her if it got him a conquering army for King's Landing.

I don't think they vetted for things like whether the men they were marrying off their daughters was abusive or not.  Hell they married them off when they were barely infants.

[go4luca]

Most of you have already touched on my thoughts from episode one so will add that I'm looking forward to seeing what they came up with for the opening credits / title scene that was left off episode one.  I always enjoyed the one designed for GOT.

[Sofie Fatale]

14 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Has nothing changed from 172 years ago? Same fashions, weapons of mass destruction, and kingdom approved brothels?

Nope. People will always want to fight, fuck and look good doing it.

[iMonrey]

I liked it, but I can see where people are going to grumble because it's not Game of Thrones. It was a bit dryer than GoT and the pilot was much more violent than the GoT pilot. But I got a good feel for what was going on and what the stakes were and I think they did a good job setting up the premise. 

I did, however, think some of the dragon CGI looked cheap. Also, the dragon skull down in the basement (?), from what I can gather, was from the original dragon that Aegon the Conquerer rode, right? It's skull was much larger than any dragon's we have ever seen. So it makes me wonder if the downsizing of dragons has already begun - I know they eventually die out and by the time they do they are no bigger than dogs.

[aghst]

34 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Given how patriarchal this world is, I actually find it shocking the Queen who never was (can't remember her name) even had a chance of being named the successor. It seems the council preferred her over 12 other would be successors, who were most likely all men. I know they want to get the story going, but I wish they would have delved into that a little more. I assume the Queen who never was probably would have been a more competent ruler than her cousin, and was passed over for being a woman, but I am actually impressed she even made it as far as she did.

Given how patriarchal this world is, why doesn't kings have multiple wives?

Or at least something like official harems or concubines?

But heirs can only come from children birthed by the queen?  A bastard can't become king?

Didn't Drogo have something like a harem and then he and Daenerys actually fell in love and became monogamous?  Of course dewy-eyed modern sentimentality imposed over a story taking place in ancient times and in cultures where the mores aren't anything like today.

[Tatum]

3 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I have wondered to myself and I have to ask... did she really have a chance? or was her "chance" just for show?

I haven't read any books about the GOT/HOTG/ASOIAF world. Everything I know about this comes from this one episode, GOT, and a brief a list of characters of this show that I read.

From the opening, I got the impression that she had the better claim to the throne, over her cousin who was ultimately was crowned King.

I think it must have been a legit chance, because that was a lot of pomp and circumstance (the council meeting) just to make it look like they're giving women a fair shot, when at that time no one really cared or wanted women to have a fair shot. I think the Queen who never was must have been an incredibly strong contender- even if it was only a charade, to bother with it they must have had a reason. I hope this isn't a spoiler, because the episode didn't talk about specific bloodlines in Viserys generation, but google says that they are both the children of the two sons that died- and Viserys' father was the younger son who died after his older brother, thus being the named the heir before his own death. So, it seems to me logically that Viserys would be the rightful contender, so I don't see how Rhaenys ever had a shot. Either Viserys is that bad, or Rhaenys is that good. I do hope they delve into that.

[Scarlett45]

10 minutes ago, aghst said:

Did that matter to him though?

Still remember the scene from GoT where Daenerys' brother told her he'd let all of Drogo's army and horses fuck her if it got him a conquering army for King's Landing.

I don't think they vetted for things like whether the men they were marrying off their daughters was abusive or not.  Hell they married them off when they were barely infants.

I think most people, even in a deeply patriarchal society didn't want people being violent with their offspring. Just because your daughter is your property and yours to marry off (to advance the family interest) doesn't mean you don't care about her comfort and personal happiness on some level. Humans are far more complex than that.

People's pets are their property in our 21st century society, yet most people love and have affection for their domestic animals. Even if your daughter is legally the equivalent of a domestic animal or a slave (which she wasn't), its likely her father would care for her safety, happiness and comfort (not above everything else, but it would be a consideration). Most people didnt torture their slaves for the fun of it (even if they could) because most people aren't sadistic assholes, and its easy to be nice to someone who's in close proximity to you on the daily. Just because someone isn't your social and legal equal doesnt mean you want them treated like crap.

Daenerys' brother was also batshit and evil. Ned certainly cared for the well being of his daughters in GOT.

8 minutes ago, aghst said:

Given how patriarchal this world is, why doesn't kings have multiple wives?

Or at least something like official harems or concubines?

But heirs can only come from children birthed by the queen?  A bastard can't become king?

Didn't Drogo have something like a harem and then he and Daenerys actually fell in love and became monogamous?  Of course dewy-eyed modern sentimentality imposed over a story taking place in ancient times and in cultures where the mores aren't anything like today.

A lot of kings have mistresses, but not all kings did. King Viserys may not have wanted one at this time. Or not wanted one he had a "long term thing" with. It's often that only the children of the Queen can inherit. You could certainly leave your non marital/illegitimate children money/property, and they could have power and influence but the official titles (like King, or Lord) could only go to legitimate children from your wife without a bunch of legal loopholes. 

[aghst]

1 minute ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think most people, even in a deeply patriarchal society didn't want people being violent with their offspring. Just because your daughter is your property and yours to marry off (to advance the family interest) doesn't mean you don't care about her comfort and personal happiness on some level. Humans are far more complex than that.

People's pets are their property in our 21st century society, yet most people love and have affection for their domestic animals. Even if your daughter is legally the equivalent of a domestic animal or a slave (which she wasn't), its likely her father would care for her safety, happiness and comfort (not above everything else, but it would be a consideration). Most people didnt torture their slaves for the fun of it (even if they could) because most people aren't sadistic assholes, and its easy to be nice to someone who's in close proximity to you on the daily. Just because someone isn't your social and legal equal doesnt mean you want them treated like crap.

Daenerys' brother was also batshit and evil. Ned certainly cared for the well being of his daughters in GOT.

Even if he did care, would it keep him from marrying her off to a mad king?

Also, weren't the Starks going to marry off Sansa to Joffrey?  They didn't see right away what an asshole he was but the way he had Arya's little friend punished, they probably could have guessed.

[AntFTW]

3 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I hope this isn't a spoiler, because the episode didn't talk about specific bloodlines in Viserys generation, but google says that they are both the children of the two sons that died- and Viserys' father was the younger son who died after his older brother, thus being the named the heir before his own death. So, it seems to me logically that Viserys would be the rightful contender, so I don't see how Rhaenys ever had a shot. Either Viserys is that bad, or Rhaenys is that good. I do hope they delve into that.

You caught my previous comment before the edit but in the show, Rhaenys' husband says that she's the daughter of the eldest prince. Therefore, I would think that she would be the next heir after her father, and Viserys' father would fall in line after her.

However, succession appears to work differently in this time period of the GOT/HOTD universe to a male preferred Targaryen even if it means skipping a direct descendant.

[Tatum]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think most people, even in a deeply patriarchal society didn't want people being violent with their offspring. Just because your daughter is your property and yours to marry off (to advance the family interest) doesn't mean you don't care about her comfort and personal happiness on some level. Humans are far more complex than that.

Yeah I think it's just like anything else- you get some people who put their ambition/needs above all else, and you get some people who don't. I am sure there were fathers like Daenery's brother and fathers like Ned Stark (and grandmas like Olenna Tyrell, who will kill you before you can harm someone they love).

[Sofie Fatale]

11 hours ago, MBayGal said:

One other thing--where was this filmed? The outdoor sets looked cheap and faked. GoT was filmed in several different countries, but it doesn't look like they are doing that here.  I have a bad feeling about HBO's new corporate overlords, but this had to have been filmed before the latest takeover, so it might get even worse.  Can't we still have any nice things?

Covid Might have also changed things forever.  The restrictions in different countries… Cost of closing down etc.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Sofie Fatale