S02.E05: The Tell

[MollyB]

5 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I don't think that's how phone calls from jail work.

Thank you.  The  several Unknown calls bugged me when I found out it was her.  The caller ID would have shown "Whatever County Jail or Prison" that she is in, not "Unknown" and/or a voice mail that asks if you will accept the call.  Also she said she had very little visiting time but she can make phone calls that many times?

[paigow]

2 hours ago, MollyB said:

Also she said she had very little visiting time but she can make phone calls that many times?

She is likely buying contraband cell phone time with smokes so she can call out during lockdown...

[sjankis630]

Also know that in real life contraband cell phones are rife in some prisons. No doubt smuggled in by prison guards. I just hope Jan can give the trio some real clues into who the murderer is. We have exactly 4 episodes left for them to tie all this up.

[cardigirl]

4 hours ago, sjankis630 said:

We have exactly 4 episodes left for them to tie all this up.

I think it's five episodes. Aren't there ten episodes this season? 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I think it's five episodes. Aren't there ten episodes this season? 

Yes.
According to HITC, Season 2 has 10 episodes:
hitc.com/en-gb/2022/07/20/only-murders-in-the-building-season-2-episode-6-release-date-and-preview/#:~:text=show’s release schedule in full

Quote

Episode 1 Persons of Interest – June 28, 2022

Episode 2: Framed – June 28, 2022

Episode 3: The Last Day of Bunny Folger – July 5, 2022

Episode 4: Here’s Looking at You – July 12, 2022

Episode 5: The Tell – July 19, 2022

Episode 6: TBA – July 26, 2022

Episode 7: TBA – August 2, 2022

Episode 8: TBA – August 9, 2022

Episode 9: TBA – August 16, 2022

Episode 10: TBA – August 23, 2022

[Commando Cody]

Who took the DNA test? Will or Will's son? I'm a little confused on this point. If it was the son and not Will, maybe Will's wife has some splaining to do.  Although the shot did set it up as Oliver realizing that something was going on between Teddy and his wife. 

I'm not happy about this side bit with Charles and the woman who tried to kill him. What good is sending someone to prison if we can't get them off the show? I was hoping that Alice is the killer so we can get rid of her, but apparently going to prison doesn't mean TV termination. I hope Alice is around for only one season. 

I really liked this episode. I like seeing them exploring the tunnels of the building. Oliver being the game master was fun.  His wig was awful, but still kind of amusing. 

[cardigirl]

15 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

Who took the DNA test? Will or Will's son? I'm a little confused on this point. If it was the son and not Will, maybe Will's wife has some splaining to do.  Although the shot did set it up as Oliver realizing that something was going on between Teddy and his wife. 

I'm not happy about this side bit with Charles and the woman who tried to kill him. What good is sending someone to prison if we can't get them off the show? I was hoping that Alice is the killer so we can get rid of her, but apparently going to prison doesn't mean TV termination. I hope Alice is around for only one season. 

I really liked this episode. I like seeing them exploring the tunnels of the building. Oliver being the game master was fun.  His wig was awful, but still kind of amusing. 

It was my understanding that Oliver, Will, and possibly the grandson did the DNA test for the science project, but Will said his came back indicating he was half-Greek. 😭

[shapeshifter]

About the DNA

In the episode opening scene flashback, 1970s Oliver is playing Son of Sam with his party guests and spies young son Will out of bed, watching the adult fun. Oliver excuses himself from the party and tucks Will back into bed, explaining about "Tells." Young Will declares:

• You're amazing, Dad.

1970s Oliver goes back to the party and quickly exposes 1970s Teddy as the holder of the Son of Sam card. There seems to be a clandestine exchange of looks between Teddy and Oliver's wife, but I suppose this could be a red herring look?

But then we flashforward to adult, present-day Will working on his son's family tree school project and his voiceover says:

• it turns out, you can hide a secret from my dad. All you have to do is not know what you're hiding.

Does this mean Teddy did not know he was Will's biological father?
(if Will is in fact Teddy's son)  

The reveal dialog is:

• [WILL] Dad, are you sure you're 100% Irish?
• [OLIVER ( Irish accent )] Am I 100% Irish? I'll have you know I'm Putnam through and through, and devil the man who say a word agin me, you know.
• [WILL] Right. Um...my DNA came back, and, you know, half was clearly Mom. But the other half was all Greek.

[dovegrey]

19 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

There seems to be a clandestine exchange of looks between Teddy and Oliver's wife, but I suppose this could be a red herring look?

But then we flashforward to adult, present-day Will working on his son's family tree school project and his voiceover says:

• it turns out, you can hide a secret from my dad. All you have to do is not know what you're hiding.

Does this mean Teddy did not know he was Will's biological father?
(if Will is in fact Teddy's son) 

This is a good catch. I think the look was about the adultery (the secret Teddy thought he was hiding), not about the paternity of Will (the secret Teddy didn't know he was hiding). If Will is Teddy's son, I wonder if even Oliver's ex-wife knows.

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, dovegrey said:

If Will is Teddy's son, I wonder if even Oliver's ex-wife knows.

Is Roberta Oliver's ex-wife, not his late wife? Or both?

[MisterGlass]

I believe just ex-wife.  I thought Will mentioned the grandkid being with her one day, but I may be wrong.  I guess we'll be meeting her shortly for an uncomfortable discussion.

Her relationship with Teddy could go a long way to explain why Teddy kept bankrolling Oliver's disastrous theater productions.  Either guilt, or a way to keep Oliver busy. 

I think Teddy could go either way on this news.  On the one hand it is a blow to Oliver, and on the other hand he has another son who may want no relationship with him.  I'm actually more interested to see how Theo and Will react to each other.

I wouldn't mind if the proposal up thread is true, and the infidelity was a generation farther back, and Oliver and Teddy are actually half brothers.  I don't think Oliver's actually taken the test yet.  I think Will, his wife, and their son did.

So Alice is an artist but also a fraud who has researched Rose Cooper.  Sounds like a forger to me.

I am not as hooked by this season as the previous one, but I enjoy the actors bouncing off each other so much at the moment that I'm still enjoying it.

[paigow]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Is Roberta Oliver's ex-wife, not his late wife? Or both?

If Roberta is not dead, then SHE must be the killer...

[LEILANI2]

On 7/21/2022 at 4:37 PM, cardigirl said:

I thought that was out of character too, because he and Mabel had gone to the funeral home together and survived being captured by Theo and then they went to save Charles. Maybe he is just that selfish, but I like to think he's a little more loving than that. Deep down.  Maybe. 

Yea and he's falling for Jan again. Very out of character or all these actions is WHO HE IS AND IN CHARACTER....that's the tell.

[Kiddvideo]

7 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I believe just ex-wife.  I thought Will mentioned the grandkid being with her one day, but I may be wrong.  I guess we'll be meeting her shortly for an uncomfortable discussion.

Her relationship with Teddy could go a long way to explain why Teddy kept bankrolling Oliver's disastrous theater productions.  Either guilt, or a way to keep Oliver busy. 

Yep, Will mentioned Roberta had taken the kids to the zoo. It was S1 when Oliver went to Will’s home to borrow money.

I like your theory about Teddy backing all the plays! Oliver would be paid also from the financing so it’d be a way for Teddy to financially support Will as well. For all his flaws, Teddy has been shown as a loving father.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Kiddvideo

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Kiddvideo said:

I like your theory about Teddy backing all the plays! Oliver would be paid also from the financing so it’d be a way for Teddy to financially support Will as well. For all his flaws, Teddy has been shown as a loving father.

Teddy’s backing of Oliver’s projects over the years may very well have trickled down to support Will, but if the the nuggets of information dropped in this episode are to be believed, Teddy did not know Will was his, in which case Teddy may have been supportive of Oliver’s projects out of feelings of guilt——or perhaps Oliver pays Roberta alimony when he is able to do so, and Teddy’s funding for Oliver’s projects trickles down to Roberta that way?

[FGomez]

In a situation like this, it is usual that not even the mother knows for sure who the biological father is.

So Teddy can suspect he is the father, but he can't be sure. Oliver could be suspicious in the past, specially if some physical characteristic resembles Teddy, but maybe he just decided to forget all that as years passed. Until now, with this DNA test. But even so, sometimes people just don't see what they don't want to see.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, FGomez said:

In a situation like this, it is usual that not even the mother knows for sure who the biological father is.

So Teddy can suspect he is the father, but he can't be sure. Oliver could be suspicious in the past, specially if some physical characteristic resembles Teddy, but maybe he just decided to forget all that as years passed. Until now, with this DNA test. But even so, sometimes people just don't see what they don't want to see.

Well put, @FGomez! 👏 

This paternity plot may all be unrelated to the murder and/or the painting.

[MollyB]

On 7/22/2022 at 6:29 PM, shapeshifter said:

[OLIVER ( Irish accent )] Am I 100% Irish? I'll have you know I'm Putnam through and through, and devil the man who say a word agin me, you know.

I re-watched season one ( a good idea for me since I miss things first viewing).  At the tattoo parlor Oliver says he is three quarters Irish.  Given his penchant for telling tall tales does he even know what his genetic background is?  

[Kiddvideo]

What I love most? Is that the writers thought ahead and made Will bi-racial from the get go. Will is darker complected…is that because his mother is black or because his biological father is Greek?

Edited July 24, 2022 by Kiddvideo

[callie lee 29]

On 7/20/2022 at 8:01 PM, LEILANI2 said:

I think it was Mabel. It's just like a recent show which I won't spoil but the main character spends the entire series defending herself from committing the crime she's accused of. Then when the series ended and everyone live 'happily ever after' in the credits, it was shown she was indeed guilty.

And now I'm spending my afternoon at work trying to figure this out ...

[Cranberry]

That show is most likely

Spoiler

Cruel Summer on Freeform.

I don't think it compares to this one because, while the show in general was really fun to watch and speculate about, that ending was thrown in at the last minute when the showrunner decided they needed a final twist for shock value. Many of us were upset because it made no sense with all the previous clues and revelations.

[Milburn Stone]

This episode for me was a disappointing "return to form" of the inferior Season 1. Not really very funny, and driven by a back story that's random. Are we to believe that Oliver had preternatural sleuthing skills (or foolishly believed he had preternatural sleuthing skills) and never once shared with his two fellow sleuths his superpower to tell "tells" until now? 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

This episode for me was a disappointing "return to form" of the inferior Season 1. Not really very funny, and driven by a back story that's random. Are we to believe that Oliver had preternatural sleuthing skills (or foolishly believed he had preternatural sleuthing skills) and never once shared with his two fellow sleuths his superpower to tell "tells" until now? 

Was that any stupider than when Oliver dismissing an entire building's worth of potential murder suspects via an imaginary dance audition in Season 1. None of the characters have any detective skills, they mostly stumble upon their clues and the bad guys get caught trying to prevent these idiots from finding some real evidence. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

Was that any stupider than when Oliver dismissing an entire building's worth of potential murder suspects via an imaginary dance audition in Season 1. None of the characters have any detective skills, they mostly stumble upon their clues and the bad guys get caught trying to prevent these idiots from finding some real evidence. 

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

This episode for me was a disappointing "return to form" of the inferior Season 1. Not really very funny, and driven by a back story that's random. Are we to believe that Oliver had preternatural sleuthing skills (or foolishly believed he had preternatural sleuthing skills) and never once shared with his two fellow sleuths his superpower to tell "tells" until now? 

Yes, I think Oliver's characterization is pretty consistent with regards to his sleuthing abilities: That is to say, Oliver imagines himself as a Sherlock, but to those looking at him, he seems at best a Maxwell Smart who, when lucky, stumbles into a solve. 

[Milburn Stone]

Agree, @AnimeMania and @shapeshifter, but wouldn't Oliver have told his fellow sleuths something about his amazing "Son of Sam" powers before this episode? If for no other reason than to fend off their insinuations of his incompetence.

It feels like the show is retconning itself.

[dovegrey]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, I think Oliver's characterization is pretty consistent with regards to his sleuthing abilities: That is to say, Oliver imagines himself as a Sherlock, but to those looking at him, he seems at best a Maxwell Smart who, when lucky, stumbles into a solve. 

But Oliver luckily stumbling onto one good solve isn't what this episode depicted. The episode depicted him as quite skilled and smooth in identifying a single liar in a crowded room multiple times. None of that was mentioned or shown in season 1, such as when the podcasters went to a couple HOA meetings to try to identify the killer and Oliver pretty much obsessed over dip and made an ass of himself. I said something similar as @Milburn Stone somewhere else in this monster thread; Oliver's skills in this episode are not consistent with his sleuthing in season 1, and it doesn't make a lot of sense that he wouldn't have tried to bring this lifelong skill to the Kono investigation. If Charles or Mabel had called him on it (or call him on it in the future) and they played it for laughs, I'd take it.

3 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

It feels like the show is retconning itself.

It does.

There have been a few other things I think they've retconned (like the podcasters talking to Bunny minutes before she was killed, which didn't even come out in 2x1), and I'm "concerned" (heh, it's a TV show) that they're going to keep retconning stuff to explain the murder. I'm enjoying the individual episodes this season, but I'm not enjoying the overall story. I even forgot a new episode dropped.

Edited July 26, 2022 by dovegrey
grammar

[LuvMyShows]

On 7/20/2022 at 9:27 AM, Haleth said:

Couldn't they have rewound the video to see him walk in?

Same thing I was wondering!  Seriously.  Given how the person walked out, it appears that the entrance to the diner is in such a location that the mystery person would definitely have walked in facing the camera!

On 7/19/2022 at 10:01 AM, dovegrey said:

Huh. Could someone whispering/mumbling "secret passage" sound like "fourteen Savage"? I have terrible auditory processing, and I'm going back and forth on if "secret" could really be mistaken for "fourteen."

I didn't think there was any clarification on the "14" part, just the "savage" part, with "passage" instead of "savage".

[LuvMyShows]

Continuing the Questions list from last episode, updating with new information from this episode:

Answered:

• Why was Bunny wearing the podcast hoodie? - because the gang gave it to her as a consolation gift when they didn't invite her in, when she brought champagne up to thank them for solving the mystery
• How did the painting, and now knife, get put into Charles' apartment? - someone used the secret passage from his bathroom that Lucy showed them

Unanswered:

• What was the significance of Bunny's dying word "savage" or "Savage" or "passage"?
• What was the significance of Bunny's dying word "14"?
• Who killed Bunny?
• Is the murderer the same as the person in the black boots who got off the elevator and came to her apartment?
• Why was the painting taken from Bunny's apartment?
• Was the painting in Bunny's apartment already a forgery or did the thief replace it with a forgery?  
• What is the full story with Charles' father?
• Was the painting put in Charles' apartment solely as an attempt to frame him for Bunny's murder?
• Oliver's bloody knife:
  • Who or what is the source of the blood, and how did the blood get on the knife?
  • Who put it in Charles' apartment and why?
  • Is the knife the murder weapon?
• Who sent the "get out of the building" text?
• Who did Bunny have lunch with?
• Who did Lucy see in the secret passageway with a mask and wearing booties?
• What was Nina going to put on the roof?
• Why did Nina give Howard the black eye?
• How did the crowd find out about Bunny's murder so quickly to be there outside the Arconia when our gang was taken out in handcuffs almost immediately after the police arrived?
• How long had Lucy been hanging out in the Arconia's tunnels when we see her meet Charles, and what was down the tunnel passage that Lucy claimed "was a dead end"?
• Matchbook found in Mabel's apartment:
  • Who dropped it in Mabel's apartment , and is that the same person who initially picked it up at the diner after meeting with Bunny there?
  • Is there blood on the matchbook, and if so, whose?

Leftover unanswered from Season 1:

• Why was Tim's phone not sent to be examined?
• Why was the detective's request on drug testing Tim's body turned down?
• Who put the note on Jan's door (or was it Jan herself)?
• Who poisoned Winnie the dog?
• Did Evelyn the cat die as Jan said, by coming into Tim Kono's apartment and walking through Tim's poisoned blood?

[Blissfool]

How many people has Jan killed? She said she stabbed her third (and took out their appendix?)

Seems gory. Did i misunderstand something? 

_____________________________

When Oliver was revealing Alice's "tells" to her, I was expecting him to say she played with her hair when she told Charles how much she enjoyed Charles' performance in that foreign film. (FWIW, Alice doesn't seem like a hair-twirler.)

On 7/20/2022 at 3:20 PM, iMonrey said:

So then everyone votes on who they think the killer is, whoever gets the most votes is out of the game if they're NOT the killer? And everyone else stays in? So two people are out each round, right? 

And how is the guesser selected? Seemed like a free-for-all. And they just vote without even questioning the accused...what would be the point of not voting for the person that was accused? At Mabel's party we saw the party-goers voting "yes" for Charles. At Oliver's party in the 80's, Oliver accused Teddy but nobody voted.

BTW, I dont think Teddy knows he's the Will's father. He seems like a very loving father and would have wanted a relationship with Will if that was the case.

[Natalie25]

On 8/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Blissfool said:

How many people has Jan killed? She said she stabbed her third (and took out their appendix?)

Seems gory. Did i misunderstand something? 

_____________________________

When Oliver was revealing Alice's "tells" to her, I was expecting him to say she played with her hair when she told Charles how much she enjoyed Charles' performance in that foreign film. (FWIW, Alice doesn't seem like a hair-twirler.)

And how is the guesser selected? Seemed like a free-for-all. And they just vote without even questioning the accused...what would be the point of not voting for the person that was accused? At Mabel's party we saw the party-goers voting "yes" for Charles. At Oliver's party in the 80's, Oliver accused Teddy but nobody voted.

BTW, I dont think Teddy knows he's the Will's father. He seems like a very loving father and would have wanted a relationship with Will if that was the case.

In most similar games like this anyone can nominate another player as the killer. Typically you have a short amount of time ( 1-2 minutes ) to argue/ plead your case etc and everyone votes. If there's a big enough group you may have a couple people nominated and voted on, but the person with the most votes is out. There's also always a narrator (Oliver) who guides the rounds. The way they played at Mabel's seems pretty typical of how I've seen these games. The way Oliver played in the flashback was odd, usually the narrator doesn't participate, just facilitates the game.

[WritinMan]

After five episodes I think the killer is Cara Delevingne's eyebrows.

[aradia22]

They found a good young actor for the flashback with at least a touch of that impish Martin Short quality.

This show is obsessed with dads. (Though, honestly, a lot of media is.) It's interesting that through all the variations of flawed dads Oliver - narcissistic, Teddy - abusive/controlling, Charles - absent/neglectful, we're meant to understand they are all loving, however flawed their parenting might be. I guess you could throw in Oscar's dad from season 1 too.

I liked the Jan bit for the mocking of true crime/prestige drama. Charles was not having any of her BS.

Winnie as Toto was ADORABLE

Honestly, that Iran-Contra joke tracks. Millennial... still don't know, still don't care.

Oliver is totally the type to have one party gimmick... and making it Werewolf/Mafia

"Well, as usual, I find your acting unconvincing." 😄

When Oliver started on that line of attack, I figured Alice was lying about her background. But I don't think this clears her the way Nina seemed to be ruled out. 

Ivan doesn't seem untrustworthy. While his build seems closer to the person we've seen than some of the others, I think he's still too tall. I just can't place the killer's build among any of the characters. Maybe Will? (Obviously it's not Will.) Idk... maybe they're just pulling shenanigans and it's going to be a stunt actor who won't look like the killer when they're revealed.

Charles reconnecting with Jan is chaos

Teddy is Will's biological father!?!

[aradia22]

Quote

I assume she had to grab it from a killed player. In order to make sure someone gets the Son of Sam card you would have to match the number of cards to the number of players, not deal from the whole deck. So if she drew 2 Oliver would have known.

Maybe Oliver wasn't keeping great track of the blonde cards. I don't think they were all as notable as "Early Betamax Adopter" or whatever that was. He would obviously know now if he looks in the deck and sees a missing card.