S06.E06: Axe and Grind

[Armchair Critic]

4 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

The 'execution' will be Howard Hamlin's suicide.

That's dark and I can see how there may be no coming back from that for Kim.

[ahmerali]

47 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

That's dark and I can see how there may be no coming back from that for Kim.

Indeed not. Kim may even end up being the tipping point - she may twist the knife by visiting HHM after it all goes down, telling Howard that it wasn't Jimmy who masterminded it - it was her. She walks out of Howard's office and then suddenly we hear a gunshot....

This is also a way to keep both the Kim/Saul fallout and Lalo's plot going into next season. On further thought, maybe the 'plan' also will refer to whatever Lalo plans to do to get his prueba.

Now, to dig even deeper: what if someone - trying to think who it could be - someone sees Kim walking out of Howard's office, and suddenly she's under suspicion of killing him? That might send her towards Ed the Disappearer...

Edited May 17, 2022 by ahmerali

[Simon Boccanegra]

6 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Hey, my birthday is February 14, 1968! I was absolutely obsessed with Duran Duran in 1984 and remember sitting outside a friend’s house that summer and blaring The Reflex from a boom box, lol. 

'84 was arguably the best year of that decade for pop music. New faces and old, just about everyone who comes to mind when we think of pop music of the '80s was either just breaking through or having a peak year.

[thuganomics85]

So, now it's Giancarlo Esposito's turn to have a go at directing!  I wonder if anyone else in the cast will take a crack at it.  I'm sure he was his normal, likable, energetic self behind the camera, but I'll admit that I'm totally just picturing him in Gus mode instead, and amusing myself over the idea of someone flubbing a take and him just glaring at them with a stone cold look.  Or after a shot, turning to his A.P. and coldly saying "Is It Acceptable?"  I could go on...

Still not sure what Kim and Jimmy's endgame plan is, but it sounds like it will involve them making Howard look like he's on something thanks to some medicine the shady vet gave them, the Sandpiper mediation, and them hiring an actor to play the supposed judge/mediator (?), and making it look like he was doing something sinister as well?  Either way, the real judge having broken his arm seems to have thrown that all up in the air, but Kim is now willing to throw away her dream job to go back and figure something out.  Yeah, even if they do pull it off, I feel like this is a major decision here that is going to change her life forever.  And probably for the worst.

Always great seeing Sandrine Holt.  The scene between her and Howard was sad though.  Doesn't seem like there is any hostility between them, but they really weren't acting like a married couple, so it seems like whatever love they might have had for one another is no longer happening.  Seems like Howard is still trying though.  Man, I don't think I'm going to like it when Kim's plan eventually comes into effect.  Howard's not a perfect man, but he's at least got some decency in him.

Look at Mike busting out the granddad jokes and being all sweet with his granddaughter from afar.  Almost makes one forget that he might be the most dangerous individual on this show.

Lalo's scene was almost an afterthought, but I guess it was to show that he's another step closer to finding out about Gus' mysterious lab. 

Poor Francesca!  All that hard work and not only is her boss kind of a dick, but his clients are already trashing the place!

[Scout Finch]

Very unpopular opinion, I'm certain, but I have never cared for Kim nor been interested in any of her career scenes, so my dislike is only getting stronger. I agree it was cruel of Howard to demote her after her involvement with Jimmy's advertising plot but that was several seasons ago and I find it hard to believe that she suddenly now wants to destroy him. Also not happy with Jimmy for actively being her partner in this crime but at least I've always liked him.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Scout Finch

[Armchair Critic]

3 minutes ago, Scout Finch said:

I have never cared for Kim

I hate that pony tail with the curl. I feel like Jimmy is always going to have to jump through hoops to keep her so I cannot see their marriage lasting. Jimmy has tried to let the Howard thing drop, Kim is the one who wants to keep it going.

[Scout Finch]

4 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

I hate that pony tail with the curl.

I know it's such a shallow, petty thing but that Cindy Brady-ish curl was my initial reason for disliking her! A lower, fuller, and straight ponytail would look much more professional.

[Cinnabon]

54 minutes ago, Scout Finch said:

Very unpopular opinion but I have never cared for Kim nor been interested in any of her career scenes, so my dislike is only getting stronger. I agree it was cruel of Howard to demote her after her involvement with Jimmy's advertising plot but that was several seasons ago and I find it hard to believe that she suddenly now wants to destroy him. Also not happy with Jimmy for actively being her partner in this crime but at least I've always liked him.

I think when Howard followed her out of the elevator last season to “warn” her about his suspicions that Jimmy was responsible for the bowling ball, etc really set her off. He was incredibly patronizing and arrogant. What did he think he’d accomplish by talking to her about those incidents? She really resented him for assuming that as a woman she needed to be “protected” and advised by him. Did he actually think she’d thank him for “warning” her about her own husband? 

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

He made a peace sign with his foam.  That is a man of hidden talents.

I do not think Kim's mom was in on it.  Otherwise, it'd be a pretty elaborate plan just to steal $35 earrings and relied on the boss not wanting payment or calling the cops.  The money bit could have been improv or the truth. 

I think Kim stole the earrings because she likes the thrill.  Or she did it  intending to be caught and get attention from her mother--even if it's negative.

But surprise, her mother was actually proud of her and rewarded her by doing a better job of stealing the earrings. Young Kim wasn't happy about it.  I wonder if she learned this is the way to get love and attention from her mother and is repeating those patterns with Jimmy.  It's through the grift that she feels the love.

If that's the case, I could see a scenario where she recognizes the pattern and chooses to walk away from it even if it means walking away from Jimmy.

That's exactly how I saw it.  Kim shoplifted for the same simple reasons any kid tries it. 

When Kim and her mother walked out and started down the street, Kim put her hand in her mother's and looked grateful that her mom had got her out of trouble (and given Kim her undivided attention which may have been the reason in the first place.)  Then Kim's mom laughs and says, "I didn't think you had it in you!"  Kim is shocked to realize her mom is proud of her and that her mom had gone so far as to get her a gift for it.

So now we know that while Kim is basically a good girl who makes straight A's and likes to please her teachers,  she believes the only way to get someone to love her is to wow them with her clever con skills.

[EtheltoTillie]

14 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

That's exactly how I saw it.  Kim shoplifted for the same simple reasons any kid tries it. 

When Kim and her mother walked out and started down the street, Kim put her hand in her mother's and looked grateful that her mom had got her out of trouble (and given Kim her undivided attention which may have been the reason in the first place.)  Then Kim's mom laughs and says, "I didn't think you had it in you!"  Kim is shocked to realize her mom is proud of her and that her mom had gone so far as to get her a gift for it.

So now we know that while Kim is basically a good girl who makes straight A's and likes to please her teachers,  she believes the only way to get someone to love her is to wow them with her clever con skills.

I could watch a whole episode about Kim and her mother. But we will likely have to be satisfied with this tantalizing snippet. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[PeterPirate]

6 hours ago, Dev F said:

I think the idea is that they're going to convince Howard that Jimmy is bribing the mediator so he'll make a huge fuss on the client conference call, only for the mediator to confirm that he's never met Jimmy so that Howard looks deranged. (Presumably after also dilating his pupils so it looks like it's the drugs that are making him paranoid.)

This makes sense.  It is obviously Saul in the photo, not Saul impersonating Howard.  The only thing is the photo was taken by the the art school kids and not by Howard's PI.  Getting the photo into Howard's hands without the PI's knowledge would be a difficult trick to pull off. 

Maybe Saul is counting on the PI taking shots of his own.  But he was quite insistent about the art student getting a non-blurry photo. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by PeterPirate

[EtheltoTillie]

I have to say I don’t understand his seeing the judge in the liquor store. Was he following the judge at that point or was it just an incredible coincidence?  

[bad things are bad]

Can't remember if we knew Kim was from Nebraska before (license plate on that cherry AMC)

[Lonesome Rhodes]

There is a massive reason why Kim saw what was surely Robert Forster's vacuum shop card at the vet's.  Has to be.

Did Kim's mom boost the gift she gave Kim?  If so, perfect foreshadowing for just how audacious we see Kim being these days.

This is just me, but I hold Kim in special contempt because for those to whom much is given, much (more) is expected.  Yes, Kim worked her butt off and endured many slights to get here.  But, she's here.  An all-time win-win.  And she is actively choosing evil.  Mike has the trauma of his sniper past.  Most, if not all the criminals, were screwed from birth.  I also held special contempt for Chuck McGill. 

I would totally have spent the night before in Santa Fe if I had that huge meeting.  The 2-hour drive would take more energy than necessary.  Be as fresh as possible.

Did y'all see the genuine GLEE shown by Saul when Kim told him of the pending law center?  So very rare in this show.  Sadly, I bet it's the last we ever see of such.  Odenkirk can be so winning, though, can't he?

When Lalo was chasing down Casper, my main thought was how very much Casper regretted not having pre-staged a weapon in the barn.  When Casper did not immediately grab Lalo's weapon upon striking Lalo, I was thinking only disgust.  THAT guy would not have made dang sure about taking full control of that situation and minimizing Lalo's ability to hurt him?!   (If I missed him doing that, I am happy to be corrected.  But, why, then, didn't Casper fire away when Lalo struck him?)

It didn't appear to me that Mike's face betrayed any special sadness in his phone encounter with Kaylee.  It was the usual exhausted mien, in my eyes.  However, Banks' voice!  Perfect balance of being unable to contain all of his emotion, but not being obvious enough to worry his granddaughter.  Serious quality acting.

I loved, loved, loved that the incredibly sophisticated plans, which were examined and modified with the utmost care and attention of two genius deceptors, all collapsed by the pure chance of an injury.  How many countless times did things go right for the protagonists in this show and BB, where the slightest messy development would expose them to great peril?  Then again, how fantastically remotely and randomly was Saul given a chance to opt out?

Another indulgent ep.  Another master class in storytelling.  

 

 

 

  

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I have to say I don’t understand his seeing the judge in the liquor store. Was he following the judge at that point or was it just an incredible coincidence?  

Albuquerque is a small city, really, especially once it is factored that there isn't much in the way of suburbs. The idea that lawyers would regularly cross paths at an upscale liquor store that carries $500 bottles of tequila, and has some proximity to the courthouses, is not terribly outlandish.

[BC4ME]

11 minutes ago, bad things are bad said:

Can't remember if we knew Kim was from Nebraska before (license plate on that cherry AMC)

Yes we did. Hence all the speculation in past seasons that Kim is back in Nebraska with Jimmy once he's disappeared. At some point. 

[BC4ME]

7 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Did y'all see the genuine GLEE shown by Saul when Kim told him of the pending law center? 

Yes, I thought it really stood out. It made me understand how unselfishly and unconditionally they love each other. Despite the bad shit they plan and do, they do actually love each other in a pure way. 

[Bannon]

7 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

There is a massive reason why Kim saw what was surely Robert Forster's vacuum shop card at the vet's.  Has to be.

Did Kim's mom boost the gift she gave Kim?  If so, perfect foreshadowing for just how audacious we see Kim being these days.

This is just me, but I hold Kim in special contempt because for those to whom much is given, much (more) is expected.  Yes, Kim worked her butt off and endured many slights to get here.  But, she's here.  An all-time win-win.  And she is actively choosing evil.  Mike has the trauma of his sniper past.  Most, if not all the criminals, were screwed from birth.  I also held special contempt for Chuck McGill. 

I would totally have spent the night before in Santa Fe if I had that huge meeting.  The 2-hour drive would take more energy than necessary.  Be as fresh as possible.

Did y'all see the genuine GLEE shown by Saul when Kim told him of the pending law center?  So very rare in this show.  Sadly, I bet it's the last we ever see of such.  Odenkirk can be so winning, though, can't he?

When Lalo was chasing down Casper, my main thought was how very much Casper regretted not having pre-staged a weapon in the barn.  When Casper did not immediately grab Lalo's weapon upon striking Lalo, I was thinking only disgust.  THAT guy would not have made dang sure about taking full control of that situation and minimizing Lalo's ability to hurt him?!   (If I missed him doing that, I am happy to be corrected.  But, why, then, didn't Casper fire away when Lalo struck him?)

It didn't appear to me that Mike's face betrayed any special sadness in his phone encounter with Kaylee.  It was the usual exhausted mien, in my eyes.  However, Banks' voice!  Perfect balance of being unable to contain all of his emotion, but not being obvious enough to worry his granddaughter.  Serious quality acting.

I loved, loved, loved that the incredibly sophisticated plans, which were examined and modified with the utmost care and attention of two genius deceptors, all collapsed by the pure chance of an injury.  How many countless times did things go right for the protagonists in this show and BB, where the slightest messy development would expose them to great peril?  Then again, how fantastically remotely and randomly was Saul given a chance to opt out?

Another indulgent ep.  Another master class in storytelling.  

 

 

 

  

 

Minor point, but Santa Fe is only an hour from Albuquerque. Albuquerque lawyers who have a lot of interaction with state govt. go back and forth daily. Traffic is rarely an issue (yes, I've lived in NM).

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

Yes, I thought it really stood out. It made me understand how unselfishly and unconditionally they love each other. Despite the bad shit they plan and do, they do actually love each other in a pure way. 

I suspect Jimmy's love for Kim has a more unconditional aspect to it than vice versa. More and more, it seems as if Kim is most affectionate with Jimmy/Saul when Saul is effective in advancing her plot to destroy Howard, and now that we know that getting Sandpiper to settle is not a necessary part of fulfilling  Kim's dream of providing legal aid to the poor, it becomes clear that destroying Howard is what matters most to her. Yes,  Gus is a magnitude more evil than Kim, but the destructive drive for revenge is the likely downfall of both, and Gus' drive for revenge on Hector and Eladio was rooted in seeing his partner murdered in front of him. Kim? Howard was a lazy, entitled, incompetent, and petty boss.

[chick binewski]

7 hours ago, Bannon said:

I know some didn't like the episode, but I thought it was terrific at building a sense of foreboding tragedy, as Kim drives away from a noble dream, to indulge in her now senseless (given what she is risking) anger and resentment. I'm starting to think her affection for Saul has become in large measure transactional; as long as he is an effective instrument in aiding her scam to shower Howard with her wrath, she's really hot for Saul. That's some really psychologically ugly stuff, and they are starting to better flesh out where and how that ugliness was nurtured.

I did not love this episode, probably bc the Howard Plan has just gone on far too long for me. I do think it showed another shift in Kim & Saul's relationship, though. Kim looked positively...uncomfortable? resentful? at Saul's new & improved office. And the only time she's referred to Saul as "my husband" comes when she's conning Cliff about having some kind of respect for Howard.

Also, new spinoff idea: it turns out Francesca started the grey decor trend and Gilligan/Gould give us a Designing Women reboot.

6 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

It’s once again disappointing and depressing to come here and see more judgment and hatred of Kim than for amoral killers like Lalo, Gus, Mike etc. Sigh.

Well, I think part of the intensity of opinion is that we know (or have our own ideas of) what those men are and with the exception of Lalo we know how their stories end. We are watching Kim make bad decisions even when she has very good options for other choices. (I will say again I do not get the POV that Lalo has some kind of allure.)

5 hours ago, ahmerali said:

What if the setup is that during the call with the Sandpiper residents, we somehow see evidence of Judge Casimiro accepting a bribe not from Jimmy...but from Howard as Jimmy? With the pupil dilation and the complexion change, a blurry picture could easily allow for Jimmy to pass for Howard in Cliff's mind, right?

But the pics showed Saul with the judge impersonator; if they're going to this much trouble wouldn't they want to make sure it's clear that is Howard in the shot?

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Always great seeing Sandrine Holt.  The scene between her and Howard was sad though.  Doesn't seem like there is any hostility between them, but they really weren't acting like a married couple, so it seems like whatever love they might have had for one another is no longer happening.  Seems like Howard is still trying though.  Man, I don't think I'm going to like it when Kim's plan eventually comes into effect.  Howard's not a perfect man, but he's at least got some decency in him.

I was happy with that casting too, and sorry we haven't seen more of Howard's life. Howard had told his therapist that his wife wouldn't talk about anything important - but it seems Howard cant bring himself to say what he wants either.

And he made her that nice coffee even though he drinks tea!

50 minutes ago, bad things are bad said:

Can't remember if we knew Kim was from Nebraska before (license plate on that cherry AMC)

Yes, Kim mentioned it when she interviewed with Schweikart I think (which has made many of us guess that Gene is not in NE by accident).

I did like the reveal of the origin of Saul's "guys" - the vet's coded black book that we saw in the S6 premiere (and of course the one thing Kim notes is the Disappearer's card).

Edited May 17, 2022 by chick binewski

[Ellaria]

57 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

There is a massive reason why Kim saw what was surely Robert Forster's vacuum shop card at the vet's. 

I don’t know. I’ll be a bit disappointed if the “vacuum shop” is used for Kim. That’s going to the same well too often. Rather, I think it means that Jimmy ends up with the vet’s black book.

27 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I suspect Jimmy's love for Kim has a more unconditional aspect to it than vice versa. More and more, it seems as if Kim is most affectionate with Jimmy/Saul when Saul is effective in advancing her plot to destroy Howard, and now that we know that getting Sandpiper to settle is not a necessary part of fulfilling  Kim's dream of providing legal aid to the poor, it becomes clear that destroying Howard is what matters most to her.

Agree. Kim is singularly focused on destroying Howard. It was evident in that U-turn away from Santa Fe and away from the opportunity to achieve her supposed dream. It supersedes all of her other motivations including affection for Jimmy and providing legal aid to the underserved. 

25 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

I did not love this episode, probably bc the Howard Plan has just gone on far too long for me. I do think it showed another shift in Kim & Saul's relationship, though. Kim looked positively...uncomfortable? resentful? at Saul's new & improved office. And the only time she's referred to Saul as "my husband" comes when she's conning Cliff about having some kind of respect for Howard.

I didn’t love this episode either for the same reason. Kim’s commitment to this plan has gotten more intense and probably more reckless. That, IMO, is a recipe for disaster and not just for Howard.

I’m getting a bit bored with scenes of Lalo creating havoc worldwide. Let’s get him back to NM and the likely face-off with Gus.

[SimplexFish]

10 hours ago, Marley said:

Sorry I thought this was boring. It seems like nothing is even happening. 

I agree...in fact besides the Nacho kill episode and maybe a little intensity with Margarethe and the doggo scene, this season has been a bit of a slow moving snoozer IMHO. It may be due in part to all these random actors taking turns at directing for the first time...bad call on the writers

 

I also think that Kim picking up and commenting on the Vacuum Clearer Repair card in the Vet's little black book was significant, either her past or her future.  Remember at this point Saul doesn't know the Dissappearer. 

 

I did like seeing the appearance of Saul's "film crew" they are perfect in the BCS World and they crack me up.  

 

What seems strange is that Howard's PI's was all over it in the beginning of this episode with all the pics and wouldn't he have been there to take note of the film crew withe there equipment entering Saul's office?

 

I do think that Kim's mother was in on the shoplifting, she even stole something herself

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by SimplexFish

[Bannon]

36 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

I did not love this episode, probably bc the Howard Plan has just gone on far too long for me. I do think it showed another shift in Kim & Saul's relationship, though. Kim looked positively...uncomfortable? resentful? at Saul's new & improved office. And the only time she's referred to Saul as "my husband" comes when she's conning Cliff about having some kind of respect for Howard.

Also, new spinoff idea: it turns out Francesca started the grey decor trend and Gilligan/Gould give us a Designing Women reboot.

Well, I think part of the intensity of opinion is that we know (or have our own ideas of) what those men are and with the exception of Lalo we know how their stories end. We are watching Kim make bad decisions even when she has very good options for other choices. (I will say again I do not get the POV that Lalo has some kind of allure.)

But the pics showed Saul with the judge impersonator; if they're going to this much trouble wouldn't they want to make sure it's clear that is Howard in the shot?

I was happy with that casting too, and sorry we haven't seen more of Howard's life. Howard had told his therapist that his wife wouldn't talk about anything important - but it seems Howard cant bring himself to say what he wants either.

And he made her that nice coffee even though he drinks tea!

Yes, Kim mentioned it when she interviewed with Schweikart I think (which has made many of us guess that Gene is not in NE by accident).

I did like the reveal of the origin of Saul's "guys" - the vet's coded black book that we saw in the S6 premiere (and of course the one thing Kim notes is the Disappearer's card).

I think the writers have taken a lot of time with The Plot to Destroy Howard because they wanted to fully explore Kim's psychology, and her extended Howard machinations were a way to do that. I've really enjoyed it. Another thing that struck me in the flashback in this episode is how much better Jimmy's childhood was than Kim's.  Jimmy had two parents that loved him, even if imperfectly. Kim had no father in her life, and an alcoholic, manipulative when not inattentive, criminal of a mother. Nature vs. nurture is not a simple proposition for these writers.

. 

[anoninrva]

7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

He made a peace sign with his foam.  That is a man of hidden talents.

Which she summarily destroyed.  I couldn't help but feel bad for Howard this episode.  He looks like he's genuinely trying.  Imagine living a lonely life in that beautiful mansion. 

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

I agree...in fact besides the Nacho kill episode and maybe a little intensity with Margarethe and the doggo scene, this season has been a bit of a slow moving snoozer IMHO

 

I did like seeing the first appearance of Sauls "film crew" they are perfect in the BCS World and crack me up.  

 

What seems strange is that Howard's PI's was all over it in the beginning of this episode with all the pics and wouldn't he have been there to take note of the film crew withe there equipment entering Saul's office?

Saul's been using that film crew for years now, for commercials.

[SimplexFish]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I have to say I don’t understand his seeing the judge in the liquor store. Was he following the judge at that point or was it just an incredible coincidence?  

Just an unlikely coincidence...

[Simon Boccanegra]

27 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Kim had no father in her life

Well...beyond some point. The timeline of her early life is still mysterious. She sounded fond of her father when she mentioned him in an early season, how much he loved the movie Ice Station Zebra. (It might even have been "loves," present tense.) And that was a very casual scene with Jimmy, in which I can't see her feeling a need to embellish or invent nice memories.

[Eulipian 5k]

11 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Call me dense, but I don't even understand what scheme Kim and Saul are pulling with the old guy with the moustache.  Does that have anything to do with Howard?

So many chance meetings on Bad Choice Road. First Kevin at the club, now the judge w/cast. The gag is getting convoluted; what's the play? This isn't like Mike's schemes/scenes with a clear pay off.

[Bannon]

Just now, Eulipian 5k said:

So many chance meetings on Bad Choice Road. First Kevin at the club, now the judge w/cast. The gag is getting convoluted; what's the play? This isn't like Mike's schemes/scenes with a clear pay off.

Having lived and done business in Albuquerque, I can't emphasize enough that these chance encounters among lawyers is not really an outlandish proposition. For lawyers who belong to a country club, there are only 3 likely venues, and the one where Kevin encountered Saul is by far the closest to the courthouses.

[Eulipian 5k]

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Having lived and done business in Albuquerque, I can't emphasize enough that these chance encounters among lawyers is not really an outlandish proposition.

As I was posting I realized ABQ may be a small pond; but then why doesn't the Judge Snidely, et al, recognize this renegade "cartel lawyer" who is all over local TV with sleazy ads, billboard rescues, and a big fish brother in the profession. Even Howard knows it's Jimmy and can't see the rhyme or reason.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I don’t know. I’ll be a bit disappointed if the “vacuum shop” is used for Kim. That’s going to the same well too often. Rather, I think it means that Jimmy ends up with the vet’s black book.

I am pretty sure this is the book we saw at the beginning of the first episode of the season falling into the basket.

1 hour ago, SimplexFish said:

I do think that Kim's mother was in on the shoplifting, she even stole something herself

I think she stole the earrings that Kim stole from the guy's desk.  There's a reason they showed him leaving first.

[SimplexFish]

50 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Saul's been using that film crew for years now, for commercials.

Oh yes, your are correct...my time line is off with the long breaks! Was thinking this episode was before the others, LOL

[peeayebee]

12 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

So is Gus. 😆

When Howard hung up his jacket in the car, his precise movement reminded me exactly of Gus hanging up his clothes. I don't think there's any special connection here, just that they're both meticulous people. 

 

10 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Thank you! Such good knowledge and memories here. :)

IKR?! I'm in awe of what people remember from previous seasons.

Quote

Esposito directed this one, and, for me, it felt a bit flat. I also give him a failing grade on the Lalo-Caspar fight, where I couldn't see what was happening (and I have big screen in a dedicated totally dark room).

I read an interview with Esposito where he specifically talks about the fight scene and that he didn't want us to see too much, we didn't need to see the blood, that we can figure out what is happening. I get it, but I don't really like it. Too many shows and movies are filmed in such darkness that TV reviewers even joke about it. I'm going to have to rewatch to see if I can pick out more of what's exactly happening.

 

9 hours ago, Dev F said:

It's the difference between the axe and the grind, and while Jimmy loves the grind, the seat-of-the-pants joy of scamming and scrapping through another day, that's the worst part for a high-strung, goal-oriented person like Kim. She's an axe woman (she of the sharp-edged earrings)

OMG! I just rewatched. The earrings she's wearing on her way to the foundation meeting are the same ones she (and her mother) stole from that store!

 

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

I did not love this episode, probably bc the Howard Plan has just gone on far too long for me.

It is going on long, but I'm sure because there is going to be a major payoff.

Quote

Kim looked positively...uncomfortable? resentful? at Saul's new & improved office. 

My impression was that she thought it wasn't professional. She was kind and complimentary to Francesca, but she was lying. And poor Francesca. She was so excited about the water features.

I felt so bad for Howard when his wife poured the coffee he crafted with such love (and peace) into her travel mug. (I have a couple of those Yeti mugs, in orange.) I'm guessing their marriage has suffered because of his post-Chuck death trauma. 

The PI told Howard he estimated that Jimmy had withdrawn $20,000. I gather from what has been posted here that that will be used as evidence that Jimmy bribed the judge. The fake judge, of course. It'll be interesting to see how the plan plays out. As someone here posted, Howard will insist that the judge has been bribed, but he will deny it, as I assume Jimmy will. But how will Jimmy explain the large cash withdrawal?

I wonder if Jimmy or Kim will be able to decipher the vet's little black book.

The Lalo scene. I too was irritated at Caspar for not being more careful. However, Lalo did a great job at pretending he was hurt more than he actually was.

I wasn't so taken with the Mike/granddaughter scene. I think it would have been fine to simply see that he was keeping watch on his DIL and Kaily. The whole star watching business went on too long for me. However, I do plan on rewatching the episode, so maybe I'll feel differently.

After Nacho was killed I expected more about the Salamanca's going after his father. I even thought that Alameda St was where the dad lived. Maybe that's yet to come.

Funny when Jimmy and Kim went on their little evening picnic outside of HH&M, calling it Omaha Beach in honor of D-Day.

In the liquor store when Jimmy saw the judge, I believe that the clerk said to the judge, "It's been taken care of," as if someone had paid for his liquor for him. I don't know if that was just a throwaway line or if it will have significance.

[Penman61]

We do seem to spend more time discussing Kim, but I guess we're just hoping she changes out of those Bad Idea Jeans and exits Bad Choice Road so she can check out of this Heartbreak Hotel...

Seriously, no question that misogyny will always inform our discussions about Kim. (Note the policing of her hair in this thread!) But I think it's also that Kim is now center stage in this story, certainly more than any other non-BB character, and I'd argue even more than Jimmy; so we talk about her more. And that prominence is because her moral quandary is the murkiest and thus the most compelling, if not the most action-packed. I'm finding her journey absolutely fascinating and I'm certain it's going to end tragically.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Penman61

[SimplexFish]

6 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

When Howard hung up his jacket in the car, his precise movement reminded me exactly of Gus hanging up his clothes. I don't think there's any special connection here, just that they're both meticulous people. 

 

IKR?! I'm in awe of what people remember from previous seasons.

I read an interview with Esposito where he specifically talks about the fight scene and that he didn't want us to see too much, we didn't need to see the blood, that we can figure out what is happening. I get it, but I don't really like it. Too many shows and movies are filmed in such darkness that TV reviewers even joke about it. I'm going to have to rewatch to see if I can pick out more of what's exactly happening.

 

OMG! I just rewatched. The earrings she's wearing on her way to the foundation meeting are the same ones she (and her mother) stole from that store!

 

It is going on long, but I'm sure because there is going to be a major payoff.

My impression was that she thought it wasn't professional. She was kind and complimentary to Francesca, but she was lying. And poor Francesca. She was so excited about the water features.

I felt so bad for Howard when his wife poured the coffee he crafted with such love (and peace) into her travel mug. (I have a couple of those Yeti mugs, in orange.) I'm guessing their marriage has suffered because of his post-Chuck death trauma. 

The PI told Howard he estimated that Jimmy had withdrawn $20,000. I gather from what has been posted here that that will be used as evidence that Jimmy bribed the judge. The fake judge, of course. It'll be interesting to see how the plan plays out. As someone here posted, Howard will insist that the judge has been bribed, but he will deny it, as I assume Jimmy will. But how will Jimmy explain the large cash withdrawal?

I wonder if Jimmy or Kim will be able to decipher the vet's little black book.

The Lalo scene. I too was irritated at Caspar for not being more careful. However, Lalo did a great job at pretending he was hurt more than he actually was.

I wasn't so taken with the Mike/granddaughter scene. I think it would have been fine to simply see that he was keeping watch on his DIL and Kaily. The whole star watching business went on too long for me. However, I do plan on rewatching the episode, so maybe I'll feel differently.

After Nacho was killed I expected more about the Salamanca's going after his father. I even thought that Alameda St was where the dad lived. Maybe that's yet to come.

Funny when Jimmy and Kim went on their little evening picnic outside of HH&M, calling it Omaha Beach in honor of D-Day.

In the liquor store when Jimmy saw the judge, I believe that the clerk said to the judge, "It's been taken care of," as if someone had paid for his liquor for him. I don't know if that was just a throwaway line or if it will have significance.

These are the best takes of this thread...excellent peeayebee! We are thinking exactly alike!

[Gobi]

13 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

As I was posting I realized ABQ may be a small pond; but then why doesn't the Judge Snidely, et al, recognize this renegade "cartel lawyer" who is all over local TV with sleazy ads, billboard rescues, and a big fish brother in the profession. Even Howard knows it's Jimmy and can't see the rhyme or reason.

The Judge is retired and unlikely to have encountered Jimmy when he was active. Also, Saul is still far from the local “celebrity” he is during BB. 

[Penman61]

10 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

OMG! I just rewatched. The earrings she's wearing on her way to the foundation meeting are the same ones she (and her mother) stole from that store!

Great catch! And...of course she is.

[Gobi]

7 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I was thinking the same way! 

It’s once again disappointing and depressing to come here and see more judgment and hatred of Kim than for amoral killers like Lalo, Gus, Mike etc. Sigh.
 

 

I think it’s because Lalo, et. al. are beyond redemption. They are what they are and will not change. Kim still has a chance to turn it around. Viewers want her to do the right thing, and know that the others never will. I keep hoping that she will have an epiphany and “break good”, even if it means separating herself from Jimmy. Given the world of BB and BCS, unfortunately, I doubt she has a happy end in store.

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, anoninrva said:

Which she summarily destroyed.  I couldn't help but feel bad for Howard this episode.  He looks like he's genuinely trying.  Imagine living a lonely life in that beautiful mansion. 

And she nonchalantly spilled some of it on the counter and expected Howard to clean it up.

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

We do seem to spend more time discussing Kim, but I guess we're just hoping she changes out of those Bad Idea Jeans and exits Bad Choice Road so she can check out of this Heartbreak Hotel...

Seriously, no question that misogyny will always inform our discussions about Kim. (Note the policing of her hair in this thread!) But I think it's also that Kim is now center stage in this story, certainly more than any other non-BB character, and I'd argue even more than Jimmy; so we talk about her more. And that prominence is because her moral quandary is the murkiest and thus the most compelling, if not the most action-packed. I'm finding her journey absolutely fascinating and I'm certain it's going to end tragically.

Really glad to be informed that lawyer Kim was wearing, 20 years later, the earrings her mother stole, which I did not catch at all. It illuminates how much Kim is marinating in her past experiences of pain and alienation, despite likely being in near-total denial of bring affected in that way.

Howard's the one nonsociopathic major character in BCS who is making a real effort to look at himself and his life honestly ( perhaps other than Nacho, at the end), and of course he's in the crosshairs of Jimmy and Kim, who lie to themselves constantly. Instead of just getting about the business of living happy,  loving, productive lives, which is the opportunity right in front of them, if only they'd open their eyes and see it! Cannot this not be accurately said of many of us, even if with far less illegality and risk involved?

God, this story is so grim!

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

This is just me, but I hold Kim in special contempt because for those to whom much is given, much (more) is expected.  Yes, Kim worked her butt off and endured many slights to get here.  But, she's here.  An all-time win-win.  And she is actively choosing evil.  Mike has the trauma of his sniper past.  Most, if not all the criminals, were screwed from birth.  I also held special contempt for Chuck McGill. 

Kim was raised by an alcoholic, poor,  single mother who thinks stealing is cool.  I doubt if all the criminals she deals with had it a whole lot worse.  The difference is she pulled herself up through hard work and they didn't, or maybe they couldn't for some reason, but I just don't think that's a reason for us to expect great things from her more than from any others. 

Everybody has demons.   Kim was raised by a woman who disdains authority figures and admires those who can stick it to them and get away with it.  When someone like the old man who wouldn't sell to Mesa Verde comes along and makes her feel like she herself is that contemptible authority figure, she starts hating herself and being self-destructive.

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, JudyObscure said:

Kim was raised by an alcoholic, poor,  single mother who thinks stealing is cool.  I doubt if all the criminals she deals with had it a whole lot worse.  The difference is she pulled herself up through hard work and they didn't, or maybe they couldn't for some reason, but I just don't think that's a reason for us to expect great things from her more than from any others. 

Everybody has demons.   Kim was raised by a woman who disdains authority figures and admires those who can stick it to them and get away with it.  When someone like the old man who wouldn't sell to Mesa Verde comes along and makes her feel like she herself is that contemptible authority figure, she starts hating herself and being self-destructive.

Terrific insight. Thanks.

[NYCFree]

Kim has worn these earrings through the whole run of the show. Just like we are getting the glimpses of how Saul was created, we are seeing how Kim became Kim.

[Blakeston]

36 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I think it’s because Lalo, et. al. are beyond redemption. They are what they are and will not change. Kim still has a chance to turn it around. Viewers want her to do the right thing, and know that the others never will.

I agree with this. Many (if not most) of us were rooting for Kim throughout most of the series, and to see her going so far down this ridiculous path is disappointing. We're more emotionally engaged with her storyline because we gave up hope for the others long ago.

Re: Kim's motivations: clearly has some contempt for Howard, and for privileged good old boys in general, but I'm not sure that's really what's driving her here. I think she's addicted to the thrill of these schemes. The "let's go after Howard on behalf of the Sandpiper clients" plan seemed like a half-hearted justification for doing what she really wanted - trying to pull off something really huge.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Quote

Kim looked positively...uncomfortable? resentful? at Saul's new & improved office. 

My impression was that she thought it wasn't professional. She was kind and complimentary to Francesca, but she was lying. And poor Francesca. She was so excited about the water features.

I recognized that look.  It's the same one I get from friends when they see my artificial plants.  Gus would love my house though!

[Colorado David]

Francesca has great designing taste, I loved the office.

OMG Lalo. PEOPLE learn if you are in a fight, do not get within striking distance of your opponent, REGARDLESS of how harmless it appears. In this case, why would your opponent hand you a business card? It's auto suspicious.

At first I got Arya vibes from young Kim. But she did well, as did the the mother actress.

Ok, the brand of Tequila that Jimmy was buying (Zafiro) is the same brand that Gus used to poison Eladio and other cartel biggees at the pool party. Coincidence??? (Upon further research, that tequila brand shows up quite a bit. Rabbit hole.)

Not getting the vet drug connection - Howard is going to be drugged, but for what reason? He's already under drug suspicion. (I do like Ahmerali's theory from earlier. Bravo.)

 

[Penman61]

Also: While it's not clear to me whether Kim & Jimmy are planning on drugging Howard or drugging Jimmy, I think drugging Howard would be a HUGE escalation in their bad behavior toward Howard. I really hope we're not going there.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Penman61

[peeayebee]

41 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

And she nonchalantly spilled some of it on the counter and expected Howard to clean it up.

I don't think she necessarily expected Howard to clean up. She was just unaware of the mess. It's probably too clever to say that Howard was making her aware of the Jimmy mess, and she didn't seem to care about that either.

 

20 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Howard's the one nonsociopathic major character in BCS who is making a real effort to look at himself and his life honestly ( perhaps other than Nacho, at the end), and of course he's in the crosshairs of Jimmy and Kim, who lie to themselves constantly. Instead of just getting about the business of living happy,  loving, productive lives, which is the opportunity right in front of them, if only they'd open their eyes and see it! Cannot this not be accurately said of many of us, even if with far less illegality and risk involved?

God, this story is so grim!

Yes! Funny that at the beginning of the series I didn't really care for Howard. IIRC, we weren't supposed to like him particularly. But now he just comes across like a good guy, or a guy trying to be good and do the right thing. Reminds me of Hank from BB. I didn't like him at the beginning, but by the end he was one of the few admirable characters. And Jimmy and Kim have every opportunity to do good as well. They have each other. They have legitimate jobs. Even if Jimmy is representing unsavory characters, it seems that he's giving good legal advice. But their inner demons have control.

Edited May 17, 2022 by peeayebee

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, NYCFree said:

Kim has worn these earrings through the whole run of the show. Just like we are getting the glimpses of how Saul was created, we are seeing how Kim became Kim.

And that is why this show is, to me, among the very best writing I've seen in television, I think even surpassing BB. I know some find the pace too slow, but the detailed, patient, illumination of character is something I've really found remarkable, and the writers have done it with multiple characters! From Jimmy to Chuck to Mike to Nacho to Howard, and of course Kim, it's been masterful.

[peeayebee]

9 minutes ago, NYCFree said:

Kim has worn these earrings through the whole run of the show. Just like we are getting the glimpses of how Saul was created, we are seeing how Kim became Kim.

I didn't realize she's worn those before. Good eye.

 

6 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

In this case, why would your opponent hand you a business card? It's auto suspicious.

Was it a business card? I thought it was the sticker from the bottom of the slide rule memento. I'll have to look again.

 

6 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Also: While it's not clear to me whether Kim & Jimmy are planning on drugging Howard or drugging Jimmy, I want to point out that drugging Howard would be a HUGE escalation in their bad behavior toward Howard. I really hope we're not going there.

I think we are. I couldn't figure out why Jimmy would drug himself, but then someone here suggested it was Howard they were going to drug, probably to support the scam that Howard is doing drugs. I don't know how they plan on drugging him. Maybe Kim, whom he trusts, will hand him a cup of coffee -- or is tea his preferred drink? In any case, this is really low, and it's another awful Kim & Jimmy are doing to Howard.