S06.E15: Miguel

[nkotb]

Late to the party, but you know it’s a universally-amazing episode, when 75% of the posts on the first page are pink-boxed, with at least 25 reactions. 

At the beginning, I didn’t like Miguel at all, I couldn’t imagine that he & Rebecca could be anything acceptable (IE, I assumed they cheated on Jack). I’ve thawed over the years, & although this episode was years ~ years! ~ overdue, I’m glad it finally happened. Miguel is just a lovely, lovely man. Seriously, he’s probably the best husband on TV. He & Mandy Moore have such a sweet chemistry. 
 

I’m also very thankful that this episode gave Jon Huertas, the chance to have his time in the spotlight, both during the episode, & after. I’m not sure that I’ve heard much from him, during the series, but after this episode, he was everywhere, & just as lovely as Miguel. I definitely enjoy him, & I will follow him to any future projects, as I will a few others in the cast. 

 

I will certainly miss this show. I’ve been annoyed with some of the characters, (almost all of them, save for the perfection that is Beth) some of the stories (Randall’s election, front & center) & some of the wrap-ups (I’m just not a Kevin/Sophie shipper), but it’s the 1 show that is appointment TV every week for Hubs & me. We’ll miss it.

[Aloeonatable]

11 hours ago, maggiemae said:

If Rebecca's mom did not treat Randall very well then that should have been an episode of Rebecca and Jack defending him and educating her and questioning her husband.

I think St Jack isolated his family and they all suffered in different ways...let alone his parents, Rebecca's parents, Nicky...

I can certainly understand cutting his father off...but everyone else?

And, iirc, Jack's dad did give him some money after years of estrangement. But not enough for Jack and he could not even tell his parents Nicky was alive.

The 2 Pearson's that cared about Nicky were Kevin and Rebecca. But they were the ones with forgiveness.

So it wasn't Nicks responsibility to contact his parents when he returned home from the war? He tried to contact Jack, but Jack chose to exclude him from Jack's life, & that happened when the big three were teens, their parents already dead.  Wouldn't he at least try to get in touch with his mother?  We were never shown Jack telling his parents that Nicky died.

It was Rebecca who pushed her family away, not Jack. 

[BC4ME]

30 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

So it wasn't Nicks responsibility to contact his parents when he returned home from the war? He tried to contact Jack, but Jack chose to exclude him from Jack's life, & that happened when the big three were teens, their parents already dead.  Wouldn't he at least try to get in touch with his mother?  We were never shown Jack telling his parents that Nicky died.

I've come to accept this Nicky's parents not knowing he was alive or at least we aren't shown anything related to it is a just a big plot hole they aren't going to attempt to fix. It's bothered me since we were shown that Nicky was indeed alive. 

[Jersey409]

Very good and emotional episode, felt creepy seeing Rebecca and Miguel in bed, but I really enjoyed seeing Miguel’s story and Puerto Rican culture.

his kids were pretty darn harsh, it didn’t seem like he was an abusive or adulterous father and husband- just perhaps too work-oriented.

Was annoying as hell seeing Sophie in the ending scenes, lol. 
 

cabin look amazing- someone mentioned earlier- it is amazing how money is never a problem in this show. People jet-set and do what they want.

 

[debraran]

I don't know why normally good writers would keep that huge plot hole. The Army didn't tell the parents he was dead, I think when hurt, you are told that he/she isn't in active duty. He was flown to a hospital and psych ward. Nicky lived in the same state, had a landline and address he received checks at. His army buddies called without a problem. I can't imagine Jack's mom not calling or looking it up or talking to Jack. I can't imagine they thought fans would believe Jack said he died but the Army never contacted them...duh. No funeral and Rebecca never mentioned him to her MIL I guess. I mean it's beyond stupid.

There was one episode where their dad yelled at Jack about not protecting him after his faking to get in army. Jack just had a look, no conversation.

After his mom's funeral an online entertainment page said the most asked questions weren't about his mom or his relationship with her, it was about Nicky.FB, Instagram, Twitter, youtube videos, all were about Nicky.  If that didn't bring a response from the actor or writers, nothing would. They will just let it die. They could have written it that Jack wrote him off, refused to talk to him, but not his parents. To say he died, absolutely horrific and never made any sense. Everyone should have a right to choose to see someone and reconcile later if the heart opens. Milo just said he didn't like it and wished it had been different but that was all about his reaction to Nicky, not the parents and why.

Edited May 6, 2022 by debraran

[Triviatrish2]

On 5/5/2022 at 12:55 PM, Kirkydee said:

A little pet peeve from me

A lot of people on thos thread are calling the Rivas family immigrants.  They are from Puetro Rico. They are American citizens.  People from the island have been US citizens since 1917.  

Also about the tension between Miguel and his dad.  Another line that rubbed his Dad the wrong way was " I don't want to look like I just came from San Juan" ( when referring to his hair).  I openly cringed when Miguel said that.  I can see how his Dad took offense to that and I really expected a more verbal showdown after that line.

Another fact.....and I'm sure the earlier poster who went to Forbes Field to see Clemente can attest.  Remember when the man who watching the Pirates on TV say about Clemente " Can't understand a damn thing he says".  That was very true and reported harshly in Pittsburgh media.  They would quote him phonetically.  " I heet (hit) thee ball".  Made him sound like a Speedy Gonzalez knock off.  I'm sure that treatment of Clemente was evident to the Rivases and young Miguel would do what he could to Americanize.  I watched a documentary on Clemente a few years ago and they pointed out articles in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette.  Probably flew in the 50s/60s but undeniable racist

I am the person that wrote about seeing Clemente play at Forbes Field. My boyfriend at the time would take me, and taught me how to score a game, and I was the biggest Roberto Clemente fan. And, it was well known about the way the press treated him. Clemente was called a hypochondriac, because of his many ailments, and the chant was "Arriba, Arriba" when he came up to bat. But,the fans loved him. An excellent TV documentary is The American Experience, Roberto Clemente on PBS, and an excellent book is Roberto Clemente by David Maraniss. Sorry, to go on, but, seeing it tie into Miguel's story, really hit a nerve.

[Kirkydee]

2 hours ago, Triviatrish2 said:

I am the person that wrote about seeing Clemente play at Forbes Field. My boyfriend at the time would take me, and taught me how to score a game, and I was the biggest Roberto Clemente fan. And, it was well known about the way the press treated him. Clemente was called a hypochondriac, because of his many ailments, and the chant was "Arriba, Arriba" when he came up to bat. But,the fans loved him. An excellent TV documentary is The American Experience, Roberto Clemente on PBS, and an excellent book is Roberto Clemente by David Maraniss. Sorry, to go on, but, seeing it tie into Miguel's story, really hit a nerve.

Oh yeah, I'll agree the fans lived and still love him.  My first game with the family was at Three Rivers with Clemente playing right field ( I'm too young for Forbes Field).  I'm not sure if you still follow the game, but PNC Park in Pittsburgh made the right field wall 21 feet in height to honor Roberto.  Also the 6th street bridge, which leads into PNC Park, has been renamed the Clemente Bridge.   There was also light talk in Pittsburgh to petition the league to retire #21 in all of baseball just like Jackie Robinsons #42

I was either 6 or 7 when I was listening to the radio when his plane went missing.  I didn't quite understand what was going on but my mother filled in the details.  Then they talked about it on the news.  Very eerie and sad

[Kirkydee]

Whoops. One more thing.  I was pleasantly surprised and relieved when Miguel left briefly to get Tylenol Rebecca called out for Miguel and not Jack.  That would've been a serious kick to Miguel's teeth

[Triviatrish2]

1 hour ago, Kirkydee said:

Oh yeah, I'll agree the fans lived and still love him.  My first game with the family was at Three Rivers with Clemente playing right field ( I'm too young for Forbes Field).  I'm not sure if you still follow the game, but PNC Park in Pittsburgh made the right field wall 21 feet in height to honor Roberto.  Also the 6th street bridge, which leads into PNC Park, has been renamed the Clemente Bridge.   There was also light talk in Pittsburgh to petition the league to retire #21 in all of baseball just like Jackie Robinsons #42

1 hour ago, Kirkydee said:

Oh yeah, I'll agree the fans lived and still love him.  My first game with the family was at Three Rivers with Clemente playing right field ( I'm too young for Forbes Field).  I'm not sure if you still follow the game, but PNC Park in Pittsburgh made the right field wall 21 feet in height to honor Roberto.  Also the 6th street bridge, which leads into PNC Park, has been renamed the Clemente Bridge.   There was also light talk in Pittsburgh to petition the league to retire #21 in all of baseball just like Jackie Robinsons #42

I was either 6 or 7 when I was listening to the radio when his plane went missing.  I didn't quite understand what was going on but my mother filled in the details.  Then they talked about it on the news.  Very eerie and sad

I was either 6 or 7 when I was listening to the radio when his plane went missing.  I didn't quite understand what was going on but my mother filled in the details.  Then they talked about it on the news.  Very eerie and sad

 

1 hour ago, Kirkydee said:

Oh yeah, I'll agree the fans lived and still love him.  My first game with the family was at Three Rivers with Clemente playing right field ( I'm too young for Forbes Field).  I'm not sure if you still follow the game, but PNC Park in Pittsburgh made the right field wall 21 feet in height to honor Roberto.  Also the 6th street bridge, which leads into PNC Park, has been renamed the Clemente Bridge.   There was also light talk in Pittsburgh to petition the league to retire #21 in all of baseball just like Jackie Robinsons #42

I was either 6 or 7 when I was listening to the radio when his plane went missing.  I didn't quite understand what was going on but my mother filled in the details.  Then they talked about it on the news.  Very eerie and sad

I live 25 miles north of Pittsburgh, saw him at Forbes Field, (I am THAT old,LOL), 3 Rivers, and was fortunate enough to see him in the '71 World Series. I still remember that New Years Day when we heard the news, we were devastated. Of course I have been to PNC Park, and know that stats about the wall and have seen the statue.  As an aside, Bob Friend was in my Physical Therapy class, we had knee replacements the same day at a Pittsburgh hospital, back in 2006.

Boy, was I excited! 

[Jersey409]

11 hours ago, debraran said:

 

I don't know why normally good writers would keep that huge plot hole. The Army didn't tell the parents he was dead, I think when hurt, you are told that he/she isn't in active duty. He was flown to a hospital and psych ward. Nicky lived in the same state, had a landline and address he received checks at. His army buddies called without a problem. I can't imagine Jack's mom not calling or looking it up or talking to Jack. I can't imagine they thought fans would believe Jack said he died but the Army never contacted them...duh. No funeral and Rebecca never mentioned him to her MIL I guess. I mean 

This show has so overly exaggerated the isolation/alienation from family members.Jack never talked to his family, Rebecca never talked to her family after that thanksgiving , and apparently Miguel isolated himself from his family too. Overused and unbelievable.

incorporating a grandmother, cousin or aunt into the show every now and then, especially in those flashbacks that drag on would have been useful. Would have been much better than that ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS story of Randall’s biological mother. Still cringe about that.

[debraran]

23 hours ago, SilverLake0315 said:

I'm almost positive Jon Huertas only recently finished filming, shortly before Milo and Mandy wrapped up the very last day, so I would assume we'll get to see more of Miguel 🙂

He said in interview that TIU is famous for dead people returning with a smile but wasn't supposed to talk about it (of course) I don't understand that being a mystery but I guess even a little intrigue is better than none. Like real fans would just not watch last one if they knew. lol

I saw interview before Miguel aired that said they had to redo with dubbing a few initial episodes because his name was Mike at first and they changed it to Miguel. I'm glad but can see why they added that bit to his history.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by debraran

[hookedontv]

So happy to finally see Miguel’s story. I have liked Miguel from the start. I can also understand why/how he and Rebecca got together. They had Jack in common, Jack loved both of them and Miguel was always a good guy. I was never grossed out by them getting together, it always made sense to me. 

[Marley]

I still don’t understand why Miguel’s kids hated him so much tho. Unless their mom was saying stuff about him it makes no sense.

[Crs97]

Considering they accused Rebecca of breaking up their parents’ marriage even though the divorce happened well before Jack even died, I think Shelly poisoned them against Miguel.

[sara416]

On 5/3/2022 at 8:56 PM, ams1001 said:

Okay, I was okay until And So It Goes started playing...😭

Same here. That song makes me melt.

[Pallas]

Miguel's a good man who was a great friend and lover, and not at his best within family life. The relationship between Miguel and his kids likely broke down before the divorce, when he was rarely spending time at home -- either working or, as he advocated to Jack, escaping family life to play golf. (That's what Shelly was alluding to: the time and interest Jack put into his family, and that specific contrast with Jack was one of the first things we were shown about Miguel.) He did not have shared physical custody and his role as the kids' father seems to have collapsed after the kids moved with Shelly across the country.

And Miguel did appreciate Rebecca as a romantic partner, from the start, as we were also shown. The spark one parent has for a friend of the family does not always go unnoticed by a kid, and it was already present enough that with Jack gone, it flared up quickly between Miguel and Rebecca. As it should; it was real on both sides. 

Some divorced mothers may slur their children's father to them, but many do not. The children make and re-make their own sense out of this huge event in their lives in which they had no role to play. Miguel came out to Houston to be near his kids only after (1) Jack was dead and (2) he and Rebecca were both, knowingly, on the verge. Once Miguel married Rebecca, it makes sense that his already estranged kids might read back through the facts and decide that he'd always been more invested in the Pearson family than in his own. It was partly true. 

[Scarlett45]

7 hours ago, Pallas said:

Miguel's a good man who was a great friend and lover, and not at his best within family life. The relationship between Miguel and his kids likely broke down before the divorce, when he was rarely spending time at home -- either working or, as he advocated to Jack, escaping family life to play golf. (That's what Shelly was alluding to: the time and interest Jack put into his family, and that specific contrast with Jack was one of the first things we were shown about Miguel.) He did not have shared physical custody and his role as the kids' father seems to have collapsed after the kids moved with Shelly across the country.

I like your take on this. I have always liked Miguel (even from the first season I didnt assume they had an affair or anything, I always assumed Jack was dead and they got together after that). Miguel's kids were likely little jerks, but I think its also likely Miguel didnt have much to do with the emotional labor of RAISING them, yet expected emotional labor for them when they became teens/adults because he was their father, and he was a good provider etc.

I am not saying that was right, but that is often the case that parents forget you have to grow a relationship with your kids, and the devotion you automatically got when they were little, doesn't always translate when they get to be independent people if you didn't put the work in. 

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I like your take on this. I have always liked Miguel (even from the first season I didnt assume they had an affair or anything, I always assumed Jack was dead and they got together after that). Miguel's kids were likely little jerks, but I think its also likely Miguel didnt have much to do with the emotional labor of RAISING them, yet expected emotional labor for them when they became teens/adults because he was their father, and he was a good provider etc.

I am not saying that was right, but that is often the case that parents forget you have to grow a relationship with your kids, and the devotion you automatically got when they were little, doesn't always translate when they get to be independent people if you didn't put the work in. 

I agree with you.  When it comes to his kids, Miguel reaped what he sowed.  I don't think he was a bad man, just a typical late silent generation early boomer father.  Actual parenting was the domain of the wife, while dad was the disciplinarian who was brought into adjudicate when necessary. He never put in the work to establish a relationship with his kids, and that became glaring obvious when his kids became adults.  I know some posters here were groaning when Shelly compared Miguel to Jack, but Jack was an involved dad (after Rebecca's ultimatum).  He made the choice to be there for his family.  We see the Pearson's spending time as a family like their trips to the pool.  We see Jack spending time one-on-one with each of his kids throughout the years.  The family bonds over watching football together to the point that even as teenagers the Big 3 still watch the Super Bowl with their parents.  

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I agree with you.  When it comes to his kids, Miguel reaped what he sowed.  I don't think he was a bad man, just a typical late silent generation early boomer father.  Actual parenting was the domain of the wife, while dad was the disciplinarian who was brought into adjudicate when necessary. He never put in the work to establish a relationship with his kids, and that became glaring obvious when his kids became adults.  I know some posters here were groaning when Shelly compared Miguel to Jack, but Jack was an involved dad (after Rebecca's ultimatum).  He made the choice to be there for his family.  We see the Pearson's spending time as a family like their trips to the pool.  We see Jack spending time one-on-one with each of his kids throughout the years.  The family bonds over watching football together to the point that even as teenagers the Big 3 still watch the Super Bowl with their parents.  

Yes, Jack really valued having a strong emotional connection with his family (not just being a good provider to them), yes Jack liked hanging with Miguel and playing golf, but that would be AFTER he spent time with his wife and kids. 

I think if Miguel had a crystal ball he would've done things differently, and his kids likely didn't have the personality type that would be move forgiving of his short comings (especially if their love language was quality time or something like that). Now I do think they were jerks, and did somethings that were uncalled for- that wasn't okay and Miguel had every right to demand they respect Rebecca.

By the time the kids were adults (or older teens) the pattern had been set and Miguel didnt know how to break it and/or realize what went wrong. I have seen this among a few of my friends. They are not estranged from their parents, or actively dislike them, but they are not emotionally close with them AT ALL. Its very superficial (not because the parent mistreated/abused them or anything of that nature) and as we get older (I am 36) the parent wants more attention/affection/understanding (because their peer group is dying off and would like the support of an adult child) but didn't really "earn it".

[Quiet1]

Agree about Miguel. He wasn't a good father and wasn't a good husband to Shelly. Yet he was a great husband to Rebecca. They were right for each other in that season of life. It was nice that his son forgave him enough to spend time with him in the end. I like that Miguel wasn't a perfect character, made him more real. 

I am happy that Kevin and Sophie are married and Miguel was around to see that too. 

[debraran]

2 hours ago, Quiet1 said:

Agree about Miguel. He wasn't a good father and wasn't a good husband to Shelly. Yet he was a great husband to Rebecca. They were right for each other in that season of life. It was nice that his son forgave him enough to spend time with him in the end. I like that Miguel wasn't a perfect character, made him more real. 

I am happy that Kevin and Sophie are married and Miguel was around to see that too. 

Miguel wasn't a failure though. He could have worked less but Shelly shouldn't have compared. I don't know why kids disliked him but I think it was written that way for a more dramatic ending. I do like he was "real" and matured.

Do you think they will ever show Kevin's wedding pic the way they did Miguel's and Rebecca?

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by debraran

[memememe76]

You see the writers playing  with the concept of people being right for each other at a specific time, Rebecca/Miguel, Kate/Phillip, Kevin/Sophie. I can understand why the kids would not be enthusiastic about their mom falling in love with their dad’s best friend, but I find it interesting how tolerant Miguel was of their slow burn animosity. Miguel never really pushed to be their bff or second father (probably because he tried when they were younger and it didn’t work out). And he knows his own failings as a dad. But he saw a new role as a second husband and as a grandfather to Tess and Annie.

[PRgal]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:33 AM, memememe76 said:

You see the writers playing  with the concept of people being right for each other at a specific time, Rebecca/Miguel, Kate/Phillip, Kevin/Sophie. I can understand why the kids would not be enthusiastic about their mom falling in love with their dad’s best friend, but I find it interesting how tolerant Miguel was of their slow burn animosity. Miguel never really pushed to be their bff or second father (probably because he tried when they were younger and it didn’t work out). And he knows his own failings as a dad. But he saw a new role as a second husband and as a grandfather to Tess and Annie.

Miguel is one lucky man with lots of grandkids. Tess, Annie, Jack, Hailey, Deja, Nicky and Frannie (am I missing anyone?) plus any kids Amber and/or Andy may have had. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by PRgal

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, memememe76 said:

You see the writers playing  with the concept of people being right for each other at a specific time, Rebecca/Miguel, Kate/Phillip, Kevin/Sophie. I can understand why the kids would not be enthusiastic about their mom falling in love with their dad’s best friend, but I find it interesting how tolerant Miguel was of their slow burn animosity. Miguel never really pushed to be their bff or second father (probably because he tried when they were younger and it didn’t work out). And he knows his own failings as a dad. But he saw a new role as a second husband and as a grandfather to Tess and Annie.

I think because when Rebecca and Miguel got together for real they were already GROWN and he had watched them grow up- so he knew what relationship they had with Jack, and he just maybe hoped to get back to the friendly relationship he had with them when they were kids. 

Also- Rebecca didn’t push it. She demanded the kids respect him (which it looks like Kate and Randall always did) but she knew no one would ever replace Jack. Randall was happy Rebecca was happy and Miguel was committed to being the grandfather figure that his kids didn’t have (given Beth’s father and Jack were deceased before the kids were born). 

[Boo Boo]

Am I the only one that never liked the Nicky storyline? I love Griffin Dunne as an actor in general and he does a great job.  However, I feel like this is another storyline where the starting character of Nicky feels far different to me than what he ended up.  Like he joins the Big Three orbit and suddenly his problems are gone and he's this well-adjusted human.

 

[dcubed]

1 hour ago, Boo Boo said:

Am I the only one that never liked the Nicky storyline?

Nope.  While most of the stories here are tied up fairly quickly, Nicky was "fixed" way too quickly.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Boo Boo said:

Am I the only one that never liked the Nicky storyline? I love Griffin Dunne as an actor in general and he does a great job.  However, I feel like this is another storyline where the starting character of Nicky feels far different to me than what he ended up.  Like he joins the Big Three orbit and suddenly his problems are gone and he's this well-adjusted human.

 

I like Nicky and what he represents for Kevin.  Randall had/has Rebecca and Kate had Jack, but Kevin really did not have anyone.  He grew up seeing both of his parents bonding with his siblings in ways they were never able to do with him.  Nicky is that adult for Kevin.  

I don't think all of Nicky's problems are gone.  We have seen Nicky work to reach the place where he is now, a place where he is part of a family again and he can open himself to love.  I will admit, the storyline is unrealistic given how many years Nicky spent alone in that trailer drinking.  But, the character gives a nice balance to the rest of the ensemble.  

[Boo Boo]

14 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I like Nicky and what he represents for Kevin.  Randall had/has Rebecca and Kate had Jack, but Kevin really did not have anyone.  He grew up seeing both of his parents bonding with his siblings in ways they were never able to do with him.  Nicky is that adult for Kevin.  

I don't think all of Nicky's problems are gone.  We have seen Nicky work to reach the place where he is now, a place where he is part of a family again and he can open himself to love.  I will admit, the storyline is unrealistic given how many years Nicky spent alone in that trailer drinking.  But, the character gives a nice balance to the rest of the ensemble.  

Right -- this is what I mean though -- I feel like he started off this dark character and is now this lighthearted character.  I mean sure, he's now part of an I guess healthy family dynamic, but it seems odd that the character that basically faked his death is now such a well adjusted light hearted person even if he did do the work.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Boo Boo said:

Right -- this is what I mean though -- I feel like he started off this dark character and is now this lighthearted character.  I mean sure, he's now part of an I guess healthy family dynamic, but it seems odd that the character that basically faked his death is now such a well adjusted light hearted person even if he did do the work.

I think Nicky could’ve been better written if he had done some more healing in between coming home from Vietnam and meeting the Big 3.
 

Let’s say by the time he reached out to Jack he had been in therapy, quit drinking and was on his way- but understood why Jack wouldn’t be in his life. By the time Kevin connected with him, give him some type of job/purpose (perhaps helping other vets) but still longing for the time he missed with his Big Brother. You could have him be single, and maybe having just lost a close friend or girlfriend due to natural causes which sent him back down that path- then Kevin finds him. 
 

I agree with you though. He’s far too well adjusted after DECADES without human interaction, affection and socialization. 

[Beezella]

On 5/5/2022 at 12:42 AM, CarpeFelis said:

I wanted to smack Kevin in the “Thanksgiving is canceled” scene. Who the hell did he think he was?! Since when does an adult offspring have the right to dictate who their now-single parent can date?

I am going to borrow probably the best come-back line I ever heard: Rebecca to Kevin, "Jack died. . . Miguel and I didn't."

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Beezella said:

I am going to borrow probably the best come-back line I ever heard: Rebecca to Kevin, "Jack died. . . Miguel and I didn't."

Love it! I  love every time, few as they are, where she shuts them down. When she and Miguel were cuddling watching TV,and Kevin had moved in with them, she shifted when he came in and he said she didn't have to do that, he was good. I mean, she didn't have to do that period, "good" or not.

I hope their speech to Miguel was not the first time they showed affection, he deserved better but they wrote the kids so immature in many ways with him.

I dread seeing tonight but I hope it's not 40 minutes of them deciding what we know already. It's ridiculous for Randall to even voice he'd take her and she decided what she wanted long ago. We know she dies next week, they gather, please have this discussion, not really needed be only 2 commercials long if that. I don't want to look at the clock and see 940 and they are deciding she'll stay at the cabin with help. That would be a filler episode and we don't need more arguing or filler but I can't see Dan thinking that is a good idea. Miguel is hard to follow though.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by debraran

[ams1001]

3 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

Right -- this is what I mean though -- I feel like he started off this dark character and is now this lighthearted character.  

At Kate's wedding he was basically just comic relief.

[BC4ME]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Miguel is hard to follow though.

Boy is that true. I almost feel like the show is complete for me now. That was my favorite episode of the series.

[mostlylurking]

I finally watched.  I have been waiting so long for this episode and it didn’t disappoint.  So many amazing, REAL moments I’m sure have already been discussed, but I’m so happy Miguel got the recognition he deserved.  This is the type of partner everyone wishes they will have when shit goes down.  Rebecca clinging to him was very realistic (my grandmother was the same with my grandfather).  Seeing the progression and Kevin eventually participating in the morning routine was heartbreaking.

Probably the best episode of the entire series for me.  Sobbed!

[Scarlett45]

On 5/4/2022 at 3:51 PM, lovett1979 said:

The last time we saw the kids in this timeline, it was the teen/college versions. It's 8-or-so years later, so we now get to see the "youngest" version of Sterling/Chrissy/Justin. This is BEFORE we first met them at the beginning of the series.

FYI we first meet the Sterling/Chrissy/Justin version of the Big 3 in the “2008” episode, season 2 -Tess is born, Kevin gets the audition for The Manny and Kate is sleeping with the married guy. That’s when we learn Rebecca and Miguel connected again over Facebook. The scene in this episode from Thanksgiving 2009 (Tess is a baby in the stroller, and we know it’s the next thanksgiving because July 4th has passed). 
 

Eta: I also thought it was cute to see that Miguel was friends with Beth on FB first! He saw the photo of the baby on Beth’s profile, saw that Rebecca was “someone you may know” and then messaged her. 

[januaryman]

Definitely one of the best episodes of the series - beautifully done and heartbreaking.  I thought I would just run out the clock on this series but this one got me in the gut. I will really miss these tremendous actors.

[woodstock]

On 5/4/2022 at 11:23 AM, CountryGirl said:

Those later scenes of Miguel caring for Rebecca ring so true as it is so often the caretaker who lets their own health suffer in the wake of caring for a loved one. I saw it with my MIL and I will always wonder if her own health, especially mental, would have been better if she had allowed nurses to come in and help more. The lack of sleep alone clearly takes a toll and we see that with Miguel. 

When my maternal grandparents were diagnosed with Alzheimer's - first my grandmother and then about six months later my grandfather - one thing we repeatedly heard from the doctors, nurses, and VA case worker was how important it was for caretakers to take care of themselves. This is so true. I was the primary caretaker for my grandparents on weekends and as the disease progressed in both of them I started getting less and less sleep. My grandmother would get up during the middle of the night and cook - full breakfasts - eggs, bacon, toast, etc. I'd sit in the kitchen and keep an eye on her at 2:00 am on Saturday or Sunday mornings. She would also get up saying she had to go to the hospital and take care of the babies - she was a neonatal nurse for 30+ years and worked third shift. I'd have to tell her she was retired or it wasn't her night to work to get her back to bed. My grandfather also worked a third shift job for 40+ years and he would sometimes wake up thinking he was late for work. Anyway, I became sleep deprived and taking care of them became more and more stressful as their physical and mental conditions declined. As a result my blood pressure skyrocketed. Between working full-time during the week and caring for them on weekends I became overwhelmed. After 2.5 years I finally had to tell my family I couldn't do it anymore. Sometimes I still feel guilty about that; like I abandoned my grandparents. I was very close to them.

I loved this episode and getting to see what shaped Miguel into the man he became. It's a shame he wasn't featured more on this show.

I thought a lot about Randall's speech from Kate's wedding while watching this episode. It is so true the older we get the faster time seems to fly by. My parents are nearing their 70s and after experiencing what I did with my grandparents I am nervous about what may lie ahead.

So far I am loving this season. Despite some of this show's flaws I am really going to miss this crazy, messy family. But I guess that's why I love this show - no one is 100% perfect, no family is perfect, and at times I have wanted to reach through the screen and smack someone. Then I say to myself 'yep this is totally me and my family'.

I did not know too much about Mandy Moore before this series but she has become Rebecca to me. I hope she gets some recognition during awards season.

[PRgal]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:02 PM, Scarlett45 said:

FYI we first meet the Sterling/Chrissy/Justin version of the Big 3 in the “2008” episode, season 2 -Tess is born, Kevin gets the audition for The Manny and Kate is sleeping with the married guy. That’s when we learn Rebecca and Miguel connected again over Facebook. The scene in this episode from Thanksgiving 2009 (Tess is a baby in the stroller, and we know it’s the next thanksgiving because July 4th has passed). 
 

Eta: I also thought it was cute to see that Miguel was friends with Beth on FB first! He saw the photo of the baby on Beth’s profile, saw that Rebecca was “someone you may know” and then messaged her. 

That part got me wondering:  why would Beth be friends with Miguel?  Does she know his kids somehow? To Beth, Miguel was just some old guy who was friends with Randall’s parents. She probably only met him, what, three or four times before he left for Texas?

[debraran]

31 minutes ago, PRgal said:

That part got me wondering:  why would Beth be friends with Miguel?  Does she know his kids somehow? To Beth, Miguel was just some old guy who was friends with Randall’s parents. She probably only met him, what, three or four times before he left for Texas?

I assumed he was also friends with others and some people just friend any friend of friend. I thought maybe Randall was his friend too (never Kevin) but Randall I could see friending him as someone who was close to his dad. I also could have bought a more realistic scenerio of them getting Rebecca on FB and then she is looking for people she knew (didn't have many friends) and Miguel came to mind. That would be realistic.

[mostlylurking]

9 hours ago, woodstock said:

Sometimes I still feel guilty about that; like I abandoned my grandparents. I was very close to them.

Your grandparents were extremely lucky to have had you as their caregiver. Even if they weren’t at a point where they could express that believe me, they felt your love. Never feel like it wasn’t enough.

Time does go by quicker as we age. My parents are also aging and I’m an only child so I feel that. I’m not close to them at all so I wouldn’t be the one to care for them, but I will always make sure they have the appropriate care of need be and it’s still stressful to think about. 

9 hours ago, woodstock said:

I did not know too much about Mandy Moore before this series but she has become Rebecca to me. I hope she gets some recognition during awards season.

 I only knew Mandy from the early 2000’s pop singer days. She was like a Britney-lite and she was ok. I’ve never seen her act. I think she’s so fantastic in this. She gets it right in every era. I hope she will eventually do another show. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

That part got me wondering:  why would Beth be friends with Miguel?  Does she know his kids somehow? To Beth, Miguel was just some old guy who was friends with Randall’s parents. She probably only met him, what, three or four times before he left for Texas?

 

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I assumed he was also friends with others and some people just friend any friend of friend. I thought maybe Randall was his friend too (never Kevin) but Randall I could see friending him as someone who was close to his dad. I also could have bought a more realistic scenerio of them getting Rebecca on FB and then she is looking for people she knew (didn't have many friends) and Miguel came to mind. That would be realistic.

Randall probably friended him first, and then Beth, but Beth may have been the more active one posting photos of the baby. I’m sure Randall did talk about Miguel and what a good friend he was to Jack, and how kind he was when Jack died. Randall loved his Mom and was thankful someone looked out for she and Kate. He did come visit a lot but he was living in the dorms, Miguel was nearby. 
 

@woodstock- your grandparents were very lucky to have you in their lives. I’m sure you were a wonderful caregiver and as @mostlylurking said above, they felt your love. 
 

An unrealistic tid bit about the episode but “tv”: with Rebecca’s decline there’s no way the house wouldn’t have been set up in such a way she could walk out on her own. (Locks and security codes) In episode 11 when Jack got out I told the story of how my sister got out as a child- my Mom’s house is Fort Knox, no one can just walk in or out with a turn off a knob because my sister lives there. 

[peeayebee]

11 hours ago, woodstock said:

When my maternal grandparents were diagnosed with Alzheimer's - first my grandmother and then about six months later my grandfather - one thing we repeatedly heard from the doctors, nurses, and VA case worker was how important it was for caretakers to take care of themselves. This is so true. I was the primary caretaker for my grandparents on weekends and as the disease progressed in both of them I started getting less and less sleep. My grandmother would get up during the middle of the night and cook - full breakfasts - eggs, bacon, toast, etc. I'd sit in the kitchen and keep an eye on her at 2:00 am on Saturday or Sunday mornings. She would also get up saying she had to go to the hospital and take care of the babies - she was a neonatal nurse for 30+ years and worked third shift. I'd have to tell her she was retired or it wasn't her night to work to get her back to bed. My grandfather also worked a third shift job for 40+ years and he would sometimes wake up thinking he was late for work. Anyway, I became sleep deprived and taking care of them became more and more stressful as their physical and mental conditions declined. As a result my blood pressure skyrocketed. Between working full-time during the week and caring for them on weekends I became overwhelmed. After 2.5 years I finally had to tell my family I couldn't do it anymore. Sometimes I still feel guilty about that; like I abandoned my grandparents. I was very close to them.

{{{hugs}}} I think feeling guilty is par for the course. My sister was the watchdog for our mom until she (my sister) just couldn't manage it anymore. She still feels guilty to this day about putting our mom in a home.

[Annber03]

*Pokes head in*

Decided to check out this final batch of episodes, thanks to a conversation I've been having elsewhere with someone about this series. And I'm always curious about how shows wrap things up in general, whether I watch or not :p.

And I'm glad I started with this episode. I share in the general consensus that it was beautifully done and incredibly moving. That final montage to "And So It Goes" got to me, too. Very much. It was so sweet to see how much he cared about and for Rebecca, and watching them slowly come together as they did over time. I can sympathize with Kate, Randall, and Kevin being a bit wary of the idea of their mom dating again early on, even under the best circumstances, fair or not, I can see why it'd be hard for some people to adjust to that.

But as time went on and once they were full fledged adults on their own, yeah, it really wasn't their place anymore to get all awkward or upset or whatever about it. So long as whomever Rebecca wound up with treated her well and was a good person, that should be the most important thing, and Miguel clearly checked both of those boxes. That'd be my attitude were my mom to ever meet someone new again someday, at least. *Shrugs*

I was also curious as to the reason for the distance between Miguel and his own children - it seemed kind of a "Cat's in the Cradle" sort of situation, but I feel like there was a bit more to it than that? But I am glad they did ultimately reconcile while Miguel was still alive.

Just. Yeah. It was nice to get to know more about him, and see all these various glimpses of his life in general, and to see his relationship with Rebecca, in all its ups and downs. It really was a lovely episode :).