S06.E01:Wine and Roses/S06.E02: Carrot and Stick

[Penman61]

Just read a great interview at New York Magazine with Peter Gould & Michael Morris re the opening sequence.

One key point: Not only does the sequence contain past Easter eggs, it contains future ones, i.e., objects that will make sense only once we've seen future episodes.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Penman61

[chick binewski]

4 hours ago, gallimaufry said:

Even if Gus doesn't use Nacho's father as leverage, surely the Salamancas will.  I can't see that shoe has long to drop.  That said, Lalo looks like he's heading south rather than north.  We know Nacho has relatives south of the border as this was mentioned as a reason to encourage his father to fall in line.  The Lalo storyline was perfect and I like that the new character from the trailer turned out to be literally just for that scene as I think we're past the point where major new players should be added. 

Of course, that's not to say they won't be -- there are so many question mark characters on the periphery.  Kim's family, Gus's family (he claimed to have one with Jesse -- even if it was a bluff), let alone almost the entire Breaking Bad world.

 

I will be shocked if Mike didn't or doesn't get Papa Nacho out. I initially thought he pulled dad's fake ID to protect him further, but maybe Mike thinks it's still usable to get the dad out of town?

My take on Gus's "kids" reference was that Victor and Tyrus didnt like fish stew (this theory is based on nothing but my own imagination).

4 hours ago, BC4ME said:

It reminded me of the way they set up the plane crash throughout the season in BB. Artsy videography (or whatever they're using) as a clue to eventually finding out something horrible.

This use of the tequila stopper this episode definitely reminded me of teddy bear eyeball and I'm not sure that I ever drew the comparison until last night as to what both Walt & Kim chose to hold on to.

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

How did Kim know the Kettlemans were stealing from their clients, down to the (albeit common) method they used? 

Well, they are the Kettlemans. But I think Saul sussed out through the multiple signature request it was shady then relayed that to Kim.

[Spartan Girl]

Rewatched the opening scene and I have to say I did love the way the rep woman picked up the pink bra with the end of her pencil and flicked it into the trash.

Also Saul seemed to have a bunch of Viagra among his prescription stash.

[EtheltoTillie]

Just checking--Kim was calling a real IRS agent during that scene--right?  I don't think she would have had a confederate fake IRS agent waiting. 

[SailorGirl]

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Just read a great interview at New York Magazine with Peter Gould & Michael Morris re the opening sequence.

One key point: Not only does the sequence contain past Easter eggs, it contains future ones, i.e., objects that will make sense only once we've seen future episodes.

Never mind. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by SailorGirl

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

 It's been a long time so maybe I forgot what exactly changed Kim from a conflicted and interesting person into "that awful woman with the ponytail". 

The irony of that line is that the Kim who did her best to get the Kettleman's the best deal available wasn't awful at all; she just didn't go along with their nutjobbery. This Kim really is capable of awful things, and it's been a slow, multifaceted process, in which her past (yet fully revealed) has interacted with her present. I think she's as interesting as ever, even as she becomes willing to do awful things.

 

[Razzberry]

59 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Just read a great interview at New York Magazine with Peter Gould & Michael Morris re the opening sequence.

One key point: Not only does the sequence contain past Easter eggs, it contains future ones, i.e., objects that will make sense only once we've seen future episodes.

I assume that includes the little black address book that was so casually tossed into a box of junk by the movers...

[Starchild]

 

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Just read a great interview at New York Magazine with Peter Gould & Michael Morris re the opening sequence.

One key point: Not only does the sequence contain past Easter eggs, it contains future ones, i.e., objects that will make sense only once we've seen future episodes.

I had a fleeting thought, triggered by the change from B&W to colour, that this was still Gene's future timeline, where perhaps Gene had somehow become Saul again after leaving the Cinnabon behind. And that it once again went wrong. 

I also noted the lack of gloves being used, so I guess the team wasn't gathering evidence (my initial assumption) but confiscating property.

[PeterPirate]

I think Kim and Jimmy's scheme is going to unravel rather quickly.  I find it inconceivable the writers inserted Kevin Wachtel into the country club scene without Howard and Cliff hearing about it.  And of course they have been on the receiving end of Jimmy's stunts in the past.  They're not going to fall for a banana in the tailpipe.    

I'm so glad to have the show back.  
 

[Penman61]

18 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I think Kim and Jimmy's scheme is going to unravel rather quickly.  I find it inconceivable the writers inserted Kevin Wachtel into the country club scene without Howard and Cliff hearing about it.
 

I thought that was Jimmy's intent, to do a public anti-Semitic meltdown so that it would get around. Not sure how it'll fit in with the Cokehead Howard plan, but everything about that looked intentional to me.

Btw, yes, Jimmy did in fact say to the tour guide during said meltdown "It's OK, you were just following orders." Perhaps my biggest BCS/BB laugh ever.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Penman61

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Not sure how it'll fit in with the Cokehead Howard plan, but everything about that looked intentional to me.

Yes, I thought the whole, 'You don't want me because I'm Jewish!" act was just to make the club manager so embarrassed and apologetic that he wouldn't hesitate to let Saul go into the locker room unaccompanied.

[peeayebee]

So wonderful to have some great television to watch. Last night I watched the first ep, then the second one today. I need to find out when the new eps become available on AMC+ so I can watch them Monday nights as soon as possible.

 

15 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

Fring wants Nacho out of the picture, they planted the evidence making it look like Nacho was getting payoffs from someone else. They gave out the motel location so that the Salamanca's would find him and kill him. 

That bank statement: Wasn't it from a bank in Peru? Isn't that where Gus is from? I don't know if there's a connection. Also, why would Mike plant evidence that implicates Gus? I'm probably on the wrong track.

 

15 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Other note: Was the "brief nudity" warning for Odenkirk's locker room sidecheek?

Yes, but in the opening sequence when we see a big painting of a nude woman, I thought the disclaimer was referring to that. :D

Quote

 

Final note: OMG just realized Lalo's paying for his employee's dental work was so he'd have a viable body double to fake his own death. Evil Burt Reynolds, indeed.

ETA: Ok, I've talked myself down from "Wow Lalo had a dentist change that employee's mouth to match Lalo's own so that he'd have the future option to use that corpse to fake his own death" to "Oh, wait. Lalo would just bribe the dentist in advance to give law enforcement the x-rays of the employee labeled as Lalo's." It's been a long night, not gonna lie. Also, I clearly don't spend enough time thinking through faking one's own death.

 

When Lalo was talking to the woman, didn't he ask about the dental work? I think that means he did indeed have the dentist change ZZ Top's teeth to match his own, rather than simply changing the dental records.

I'm a little confused about the timeline and body double business. Where and when did Lalo plant the dead body double? I thought the Federales (and Cousins) were at Lalo's place with all the dead bodies before Lalo killed the lookalike. 

 

7 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Also not buying that Nacho survived that gauntlet with those two goons firing freely at such close range.  I seriously doubt that the truck was fitted with M-1 Abrams armor, too.  

Yeah, that was a little ridiculous; however, the Cousins pointed out to the other guy that Nacho was to be taken alive, so they weren't trying to kill him.

 

I really thought Nacho was a goner, though I didn't think it would happen so soon in the final season. I loved watching him break out of his motel room by smashing the A/C out of the window. Heck, I bet that was doubly satisfying to him: 1) getting out of the room, and 2) beating up that piece of shit A/C unit.

What was the point of Gus accidentally breaking the glass and then cleaning it up? Just to show how meticulous he is? 

[Penman61]

8 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

So wonderful to have some great television to watch. Last night I watched the first ep, then the second one today. I need to find out when the new eps become available on AMC+ so I can watch them Monday nights as soon as possible.

Eps 1 & 2 were available on AMC+ on-demand at 8:20p PT last night (Monday), commercial-free. I wasn't able to check earlier, so eps may or may not be available earlier. (Ep 1 began on AMC+ Live at 6pm, same as ET "live" cable broadcast.)

Edited April 19, 2022 by Penman61

[Blakeston]

13 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

That bank statement: Wasn't it from a bank in Peru? Isn't that where Gus is from? I don't know if there's a connection. Also, why would Mike plant evidence that implicates Gus? I'm probably on the wrong track.

When Lalo was talking to the woman, didn't he ask about the dental work? I think that means he did indeed have the dentist change ZZ Top's teeth to match his own, rather than simply changing the dental records.

I'm a little confused about the timeline and body double business. Where and when did Lalo plant the dead body double? I thought the Federales (and Cousins) were at Lalo's place with all the dead bodies before Lalo killed the lookalike. 

Gus is Chilean.

I think the purpose of Lalo sending the guy to the dentist was so that the dentist could check out the guy's teeth, and then change Lalo's dental records to match those teeth.

I, too, was confused about the timeline with that.

[chick binewski]

2 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I assume that includes the little black address book that was so casually tossed into a box of junk by the movers...

 

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

I had a fleeting thought, triggered by the change from B&W to colour, that this was still Gene's future timeline, where perhaps Gene had somehow become Saul again after leaving the Cinnabon behind. And that it once again went wrong. 

I also noted the lack of gloves being used, so I guess the team wasn't gathering evidence (my initial assumption) but confiscating property.

I like the idea of gaudy mcmansion belonging to Gene so much. Hey, maybe that's what he used the diamonds for - a Saul shrine.

And the black book being tossed into the "no value" bin with no gloves did make it seem this wasn't criminal but financial. 

19 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

That bank statement: Wasn't it from a bank in Peru? Isn't that where Gus is from? I don't know if there's a connection. Also, why would Mike plant evidence that implicates Gus? I'm probably on the wrong track.

Yes, but in the opening sequence when we see a big painting of a nude woman, I thought the disclaimer was referring to that. :D

When Lalo was talking to the woman, didn't he ask about the dental work? I think that means he did indeed have the dentist change ZZ Top's teeth to match his own, rather than simply changing the dental records.

I'm a little confused about the timeline and body double business. Where and when did Lalo plant the dead body double? I thought the Federales (and Cousins) were at Lalo's place with all the dead bodies before Lalo killed the lookalike. 

To me both the Kettleman gig and the tracking of Nacho felt a bit convoluted but Fring is Chilean. There may be other players that Gus is trying to pin this on. As usual, he prepared for everything including having a duplicate safe at the ready.

And yeah, unless the goat farmers are next door the body double placement may remain in the same category as Brock's poison (unless Lalo has disclosed to someone else other than Hector that he's alive).

Very curious who is following Saul & Kim.  

[Starchild]

3 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

I like the idea of gaudy mcmansion belonging to Gene so much. Hey, maybe that's what he used the diamonds for - a Saul shrine.

Now I want a Saul Goodman trilogy of series:

1. Better Call Saul = Jimmy McGill

2. Breaking Bad = Saul Goodman

3. Cinnabon Shenanigans = Gene Takovic

[peeayebee]

Thanks for correcting me re Gus being from Chile. 

57 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I think the purpose of Lalo sending the guy to the dentist was so that the dentist could check out the guy's teeth, and then change Lalo's dental records to match those teeth.

That makes sense.

[LittleIggy]

Why did Lalo take that scissors blade if he wasn’t going to kill the guy. I didn’t get that.

[Gobi]

1 minute ago, LittleIggy said:

Why did Lalo take that scissors blade if he wasn’t going to kill the guy. I didn’t get that.

He killed the husband and wife goat farmers.

[Irlandesa]

22 hours ago, Penman61 said:

I thought that was Jimmy's intent, to do a public anti-Semitic meltdown so that it would get around. Not sure how it'll fit in with the Cokehead Howard plan, but everything about that looked intentional to me.

 

20 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Yes, I thought the whole, 'You don't want me because I'm Jewish!" act was just to make the club manager so embarrassed and apologetic that he wouldn't hesitate to let Saul go into the locker room unaccompanied.

I think his original intent was to take a tour of the facility and, during the part that goes through the locker room, plant the cocaine-looking packet.

But Kevin ruined that when he suggested to the tour guide that Jimmy/Saul shouldn't be invited.  The public meltdown was a pivot to guilt the tour guide into letting him just go to the bathroom. 

I do not think Kevin or the original meltdown was part of the plan.  And since it was a pivot, there's a chance that it could get back to Howard if someone were to bring up the confrontation to him and the specific date.  It remains to be seen just how much of a set back being found out this soon would be, though.  Jimmy has engaged in some pretty petty shit with Howard--the bowling ball and the prostitutes.  Making it seem like he's a coke addict could just be another petty act in Howard's mine and not some very long game.  If he were to somehow find out that the Kettleman's are out there trying to start a lawsuit related to his drug issue, then he might realize this is different than previous shenanigans.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Irlandesa

[Colorado David]

17 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

 

Does Giancarlo Esposito age? Everyone looks pretty much the same given the significant COVID time gap. . . the twins seem to be showing the age difference the most. 

 

Maybe it's just me, but the twins' boots seem larger. Larger than they should be, too long. Kinda like clown feet. Maybe they were that way before, but I only noticed it now from the boots' eye view camera shot. 

[One Imaginary Girl]

A BB callback I noticed was that the police detective with an ADA (I think) whom Jimmy is talking with in the courthouse is Hank's friend who asks his advice, during Hank's mineral-collecting convalescence, on the Gale Boetticher murder case--the first domino to fall in Walt's undoing.

[Ellaria]

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

When Lalo was talking to the woman, didn't he ask about the dental work? I think that means he did indeed have the dentist change ZZ Top's teeth to match his own, rather than simply changing the dental records.

I'm a little confused about the timeline and body double business. Where and when did Lalo plant the dead body double? I thought the Federales (and Cousins) were at Lalo's place with all the dead bodies before Lalo killed the lookalike. 

As far as the dental records, it seems that some sort of “switcheroo” was pulled off so that Mateo(?) the goat farmer had the same records as Lalo.

However, I’m less concerned about what happened with the records than I am with the killing of the goat farmer couple. We never saw their bodies and never saw Lalo move the dead body back to his house. For a show that is so precise with its details, the timeline is confusing me. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Ellaria Sand

[Gobi]

18 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

As far as the dental records, it seems that some sort of “switcheroo” was pulled off so that Mateo(?) the goat farmer had the same records as Lalo.

However, I’m less concerned about how/what happened with the records than I am with the killing of the goat farmer couple. We never saw their bodies and never saw Lalo move the dead body back to his house. For a show that is so precise with its details, the timeline is confusing me. 

They were killed after the attack. In part, he was killing them because they knew he was still alive.

[Ellaria]

7 minutes ago, Gobi said:

They were killed after the attack. In part, he was killing them because they knew he was still alive.

Mateo’s body is believed to be the badly burned body found inside of Lalo’s house. That’s why Lalo had the discussion with Sylvia (?) about her husband’s teeth.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Ellaria Sand

[Gobi]

10 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Mateo’s body is believed to be the badly burned body found inside of Lalo’s house. That’s why Lalo had the discussion with Sylvia (?) about her husband’s teeth.

Lalo showed up at their house already wounded from the attack. No doubt he brought back and burned Mateo’s body in his house after killing him.

[Pike Ludwell]

Couple of random thoughts. That scene where Kim and Saul are at the Kettlemans and Kim calls the agent on the phone. I was thinking it would have been so great if they'd had it be Kuby (played by Bill Burr) pretending to be the agent. That's the kind of thing he was used for in BB.

I was half expecting for Howard to bust Jimmy at the gym. For a second he looked like he might. He could have easily thought "Jimmy!", when the packet fell out, and realized the guy on the bench behind him sounded like Jimmy and had the shape. They show Howard to be very astute at other times, but not this time.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Pike Ludwell

[Ellaria]

Just now, Gobi said:

Lalo showed up at their house already wounded from the attack. No doubt he brought back and burned Mateo’s body in his house after killing him.

Yes. I know that. The confusion is because we never saw him do that. Instead, we saw the Federales and the cousins find the burned body. Clearly, there was a time gap between when Lalo’s house was getting the CSI treatment and when he brought back the burned body.

While this show likes its viewers to be able to think independently, this was a bit unclear on an initial viewing.

[tennisgurl]

I adore this show, I’m so glad it’s back! The New Mexico board of tourism really should send them a fruit basket, they make their state look unimaginably beautiful, I desperately want to take a vacation out there. Also full of drug lords, sleazy crooks, and the Kettlemans, but the scenery is worth the risk. 

[NotMySekrit2Tell]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think his original intent was to take a tour of the facility and, during the part that goes through the locker room, plant the cocaine-looking packet.

But Ken ruined that when he suggested to the tour guide that Jimmy/Saul shouldn't be invited.  The public meltdown was a pivot to guilt the tour guide into letting him just go to the bathroom. 

I do not think Ken or the original meltdown was part of the plan. 

Not to be "that person," but just for clarity, that was Kevin. Ken was the stockbroker Jimmy and Kim hustled.

I am so happy to have the show back.

A scene I loved was Mike evicting Nacho's...whatever one would call them. I thought it was telling that the one who was playing with the dominoes dropped her performative "anxiety" right quick when she saw Mike wasn't there for her bullshit.

[MaggieG]

8 hours ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Not to be "that person," but just for clarity, that was Kevin. Ken was the stockbroker Jimmy and Kim hustled.

I am so happy to have the show back.

A scene I loved was Mike evicting Nacho's...whatever one would call them. I thought it was telling that the one who was playing with the dominoes dropped her performative "anxiety" right quick when she saw Mike wasn't there for her bullshit.

Haha, I called them Nacho's Lady Friends. 

I love this show but I feel like sometimes things go over my head because there are so many details and so much time in between seasons that I forget things. So I'm glad I can come here and read everyone's thoughts. I had no idea what the bottle stopper was until reading it here. I did remember the Kettleman's tough!

I'm rooting for Nacho to get out of this.

[Penman61]

[Warning: Rant incoming. Feel free to scroll on by...]

With cousins/twins featured so prominently in this ep, time for one of my very few critiques of the BB/BCS universe: The cousins are a not-great concept very poorly executed.

First, conceptually, they are just over the line, even for BB/BCS (which, we should recall, featured a severed human head bomb on a tortoise). But the cousins are just too extreme, too "badass!," too laconically menacing, too many shots of their deathshead boot-tips.

And the two actors are...underskilled? Is that the polite way to say this? They aren't very expressive at doing silent menacing or anything else. Contrast them with, to pick a non-random example, Giancarlo Esposito (also now over-used in this universe, sadly, but that's a rant for another day) who really can peel paint with a single look. But these actors just look bored or maybe blankly annoyed. Their only saving grace is that they are usually in action scenes such as in this episode, which are so superbly directed in this universe that I'm not watching them not act.

[/rant]

Edited April 20, 2022 by Penman61

[chick binewski]

3 hours ago, MaggieG said:

Haha, I called them Nacho's Lady Friends. 

I love this show but I feel like sometimes things go over my head because there are so many details and so much time in between seasons that I forget things. So I'm glad I can come here and read everyone's thoughts. I had no idea what the bottle stopper was until reading it here. I did remember the Kettleman's tough!

I'm rooting for Nacho to get out of this.

I did another rewatch before Monday (as I did with S5) bc it's immensely watchable and there are SO many details to revisit. However it also makes me anxious for subjects to be revisited, even if they won't make much of a difference. Like, maybe Saul could fess up to actually putting the malpractice nail in Chuck's coffin (but I am also the cheese that stands alone in my love for Howard and why does he and his golf game have to suffer bc Kim has lost her damn mind?).

I also want to see Nacho get out and that may be mostly due to Michael Mando, who I don't think gets enough recognition for his performance compared to the other actors. One reason I'm hopeful is that in the BB timeline Mike is loyal by all appearances to Gus, whereas in BCS he's still resentful about having to kill Werner. I don't know that Mike would fully return to the fold if Nacho dies.

But all my guesses about BCS have pretty much been wrong. Current theory: Kim leaves Saul for Lalo.

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, Penman61 said:

And the two actors are...underskilled?

I think I read somewhere that the twins aren't actors at all, but just two guys hired for their looks. Good for you for noticing.  That's why we almost never hear them say anything. In fact I think, "alive!" in Spanish was their first spoken line.  They said something to someone who was in the back of their car one time, but we didn't see either face while it was said so I expected it was dubbed in by an actor.  So now, I not only don't fear them, I worry for them.  I was afraid Nacho was going to run over their snake boots this time.

ETA:  I just looked at their IMBD's and they've both done  a bit of TV work since they were discovered for Breaking Bad,  Maybe they've learned to act a little bit since then, so now they get to say words!  I'll always like them for that iconic scene in BB, where the truck blows up behind them and they don't break stride or look back.

Edited April 20, 2022 by JudyObscure
checked myself.

[dwmarch]

23 hours ago, peeayebee said:

What was the point of Gus accidentally breaking the glass and then cleaning it up? Just to show how meticulous he is? 

Seems to be a metaphor for this situation with Lalo and Nacho. It's Gus' mess but he will clean it up himself with his bare hands and he won't cut himself in the process. Except for one glass going missing (which I guess in this case would be Nacho) no one will be the wiser and soon we will all forget that it ever happened.

[Cinnabon]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:34 AM, Crashcourse said:

The Kettleman's are back!  I hope they fuck Kim's shenanigans up and she gets sent to prison.  Or Belize.  Even Saul is afraid of her now. 

Why? They deserve everything they get for stealing from their vulnerable customers. 

On 4/19/2022 at 12:30 PM, Razzberry said:

 It's been a long time so maybe I forgot what exactly changed Kim from a conflicted and interesting person into "that awful woman with the ponytail". 

She is still a conflicted and interesting person IMO.

[gallimaufry]

Other nice visual metaphors...  

Blue is always the colour for the law.  So not only does Kim wear red but when she's watching Howard and Cliff, she actually takes a piece of blue gum and starts chewing it up.

Betsy isn't quite a wolf but she does have foxes on her clothes.

The ant and the ice cream also both make separate appearances calling back the yodelling teaser last year.

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, chick binewski said:

I am also the cheese that stands alone in my love for Howard

You're not alone. I can't say I love him, but I like and respect his character. I think he's always done the best he can under difficult circumstances, he's never done anything purely out of spite, and he doesn't deserve to be targeted by Kim and Jimmy. What's happening to him right now is just Kim being mean, and it's wrong.

[Gobi]

5 minutes ago, Starchild said:

You're not alone. I can't say I love him, but I like and respect his character. I think he's always done the best he can under difficult circumstances, he's never done anything purely out of spite, and he doesn't deserve to be targeted by Kim and Jimmy. What's happening to him right now is just Kim being mean, and it's wrong.

At heart, Howard is a decent person. He might not have everyone’s favorite personality, but he was never malicious, just a stuffed shirt at worst. Chuck put him in a horrible position vis a vis Jimmy.

[Cinnabon]

15 minutes ago, Starchild said:

You're not alone. I can't say I love him, but I like and respect his character. I think he's always done the best he can under difficult circumstances, he's never done anything purely out of spite, and he doesn't deserve to be targeted by Kim and Jimmy. What's happening to him right now is just Kim being mean, and it's wrong.

I don’t think Howard has experienced many difficult experiences or hardship in his privileged life. 

[Gobi]

10 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I don’t think Howard has experienced many difficult experiences or hardship in his privileged life. 

I don’t remember the details, but I recall one episode where he was talking about being unhappy because his father forced him into a career he didn’t really want.

[Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I don’t remember the details, but I recall one episode where he was talking about being unhappy because his father forced him into a career he didn’t really want.

LOL poor little rich boy. I’m sure his father paid for his undergraduate degree at a pricey college. He could have gone on to do anything he wanted and stood on his own. But I’m assuming he was too much of a coward to stand up for himself, and ultimately cared more about not losing daddy’s money than striking out on his own.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Gobi]

9 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

LOL poor little rich boy. I’m sure his father paid for his undergraduate degree at a pricey college. He could have gone on to do anything he wanted and stood on his own. But I’m assuming he was too much of a coward to stand up for himself, and ultimately cared more about not losing daddy’s money than striking out on his own.

My recollection is that the family law firm was in shambles and that Howard, as the rainmaker, and Chuck, as the brains, turned it around. 

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

Why? They deserve everything they get for stealing from their vulnerable customers. 

Oh, I don't really care about the Kettlemans and I know they're crooks.  However, it takes one to know one, so I hope they fuck Kim up.

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

You're not alone. I can't say I love him, but I like and respect his character. I think he's always done the best he can under difficult circumstances, he's never done anything purely out of spite, and he doesn't deserve to be targeted by Kim and Jimmy. What's happening to him right now is just Kim being mean, and it's wrong.

I agree with this.  Regardless of his privileged background, he is a decent person who hasn't lied (except when instructed to by Chuck).  

[Cinnabon]

8 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I agree with this.  Regardless of his privileged background, he is a decent person who hasn't lied (except when instructed to by Chuck).  

Lying because someone else instructed him to doesn’t make him any less of a liar.

[Cinnabon]

39 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Oh, I don't really care about the Kettlemans and I know they're crooks.  However, it takes one to know one, so I hope they fuck Kim up.

I see that she gave up an extremely lucrative, posh job with all the elite perks to work as underpaid legal counsel to the underprivileged. She put herself at risk to help that  homeowner keep his home when her greedy employers tried to take it from him. It would be a better world if more valued these things.

[Crashcourse]

Just now, Cinnabon said:

I see that she gave up an extremely lucrative, posh job with all the elite perks to work as underpaid legal counsel to the underprivileged. She put herself at risk to help that  homeowner keep his home when her greedy employers tried to take it from him. It would be a better world if more valued these things.

Giselle? 🤣

[PeterPirate]

10 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Lying because someone else instructed him to doesn’t make him any less of a liar.

That's one way to look at it.  Another way is to consider that he is more honest than most TV lawyers.

[Cinnabon]

1 minute ago, PeterPirate said:

That's one way to look at it.  Another way is to consider that he is more honest than most TV lawyers.

Both can be true 🙂.