S06.E01:Wine and Roses/S06.E02: Carrot and Stick

[BC4ME]

4 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

I think the point was that they knew the Cousins were combing the area so Gus just had to keep Nacho there until they found the lead in the safe, turned up and killed him.  It's true there was a risk that Nacho might have implicated Gus but he had no proof to that effect, the transfer to the mercenaries in Nacho's safe would presumably be investigated and not lead anywhere to Gus... plus, the Cousins aren't exactly subtle, nuanced individuals.  Even if they harboured suspicions, Bolsa would likely have written this off as the Salamanca enmity for Gus re-emerging.

I probably haven't thought about this as thoroughly as you have but it seems like they could've still set things up in the safe the exact same way except for telling them where Nacho was by including the hotel number. If they had already killed him, they wouldn't need to worry about the cousins torturing him for info before killing him. It just seems risky.

[gallimaufry]

5 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

I probably haven't thought about this as thoroughly as you have but it seems like they could've still set things up in the safe the exact same way except for telling them where Nacho was by including the hotel number. If they had already killed him, they wouldn't need to worry about the cousins torturing him for info before killing him. It just seems risky.

I agree it's risky but look at it the other way - the longer Nacho stays free, the harder it is for Gus to track him, the wilder the Cousins become and the more chance Lalo has to find Nacho first... and Lalo WILL make sure Nacho leads him back to Gus.

[BC4ME]

14 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

I agree it's risky but look at it the other way - the longer Nacho stays free, the harder it is for Gus to track him, the wilder the Cousins become and the more chance Lalo has to find Nacho first... and Lalo WILL make sure Nacho leads him back to Gus.

The funny thing is, neither side got fooled anyway, despite all the trouble on both sides.

[Penman61]

Can someone explain how Gus JUST KNEW when he talked to Hector that Lalo was not dead? Was it the magic handshake?

[grawlix]

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Can someone explain how Gus JUST KNEW when he talked to Hector that Lalo was not dead? Was it the magic handshake?

At the end of the handshake, Hector appeared to have a smirk on his face.  I guess Hector's stroke robbed him of his poker face.  Gus interpreted the smirk to mean Hector believes the Salamancas have the upper hand and that must mean Lalo is still alive.  At least, that's how I interpreted it.

Edited April 23, 2022 by grawlix

[peeayebee]

Besides Gus's spidey-sense, he knows Hector. Would Hector really shake his hand knowing that Lalo was dead?

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Can someone explain how Gus JUST KNEW when he talked to Hector that Lalo was not dead? Was it the magic handshake?

I agree with others above. Hector's emotional state was barely contained glee.

[chick binewski]

4 hours ago, BC4ME said:

Just rewatching and had a question I had the first time. Why didn't they just have whomever was bringing Nacho food poison him? Clearly, Fring set that hotel situation up. It seems like they wouldn't have wanted him caught alive so why not kill him then when they had the chance?

I mean, I get the way they did it made for better drama. I'm just looking for a better explanation I hadn't thought of. 

I did find the Nacho handling a little clunky (but frankly in BCS everyone is plotting so much and I get confused easily on a good day). But another reason for Gus directing Nacho might have been to see if Lalo could be fished out and confirm he was alive?

 

2 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Can someone explain how Gus JUST KNEW when he talked to Hector that Lalo was not dead? Was it the magic handshake?

 

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Besides Gus's spidey-sense, he knows Hector. Would Hector really shake his hand knowing that Lalo was dead?

Yes, I thought Hector doing his imitation of cartel civility was the only sign Gus needed - if Hector really thought Lalo was dead we would have been subject to a chorus of hotel desk bell.

[Ottis]

On 4/20/2022 at 3:06 PM, dwmarch said:

Seems to be a metaphor for this situation with Lalo and Nacho. It's Gus' mess but he will clean it up himself with his bare hands and he won't cut himself in the process. Except for one glass going missing (which I guess in this case would be Nacho) no one will be the wiser and soon we will all forget that it ever happened.

I actually took it as a sign that even unflappable Gus is unnerved by Lalo being alive and how Gus’s plan was unraveling. A rare drop of the facade by Gus.

[Starchild]

I think the reason Gus didn't kill Nacho himself, but tried to set things up so that the Salamancas would do it, is because this way, it would look like Nacho acted on his own.

If they found Nacho already dead, they'd know that someone else was involved, likely whoever Nacho was reporting to, and they'd start looking for that person (who we know is Gus).

[cmfran]

Re-watched the opening sequence of ep 1, and there are so many little things to notice. 

-The "Panavision" baseball hat in the closet from his TV ad days, as well as the guitar he scored from the music store guys.

-The secret room was definitely a panic room. In the brief shot, you can see a water cooler, cameras, and paper products in case he has to camp out there for awhile.

[Penman61]

48 minutes ago, cmfran said:

-The secret room was definitely a panic room. In the brief shot, you can see a water cooler, cameras, and paper products in case he has to camp out there for awhile.

Also a toilet is visible, probably a portable/chemical one.

Overall, that mansion's decor was so over-the-top garish that, until I saw the panic room, I thought it might be some kind of staged or "cover" house that Saul used to impress (lol) clients or mislead the DEA, etc. It's just all too much, but you don't have a panic room in a house you don't reside in, so...I guess Saul really lived there. And that means he was mainly trying to impress himself. <insert tragic emoji here>

Edited April 23, 2022 by Penman61

[carrps]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:19 AM, chick binewski said:

This use of the tequila stopper this episode definitely reminded me of teddy bear eyeball and I'm not sure that I ever drew the comparison until last night as to what both Walt & Kim chose to hold on to.

My sister is watching BCS with me, but she never watched BB. I described the teddy bear eyeball when they showed the tequila stopper, too! Great minds...

On 4/19/2022 at 10:28 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Rewatched the opening scene and I have to say I did love the way the rep woman picked up the pink bra with the end of her pencil and flicked it into the trash.

Also Saul seemed to have a bunch of Viagra among his prescription stash.

Saul is such a slut.

[chick binewski]

2 hours ago, cmfran said:

Re-watched the opening sequence of ep 1, and there are so many little things to notice. 

-The "Panavision" baseball hat in the closet from his TV ad days, as well as the guitar he scored from the music store guys.

-The secret room was definitely a panic room. In the brief shot, you can see a water cooler, cameras, and paper products in case he has to camp out there for awhile.

And balls from bingo and the CC Mobile store, the Mesa Verde photo and the bribe-y stuffed animals. One reviewer pointed out that a painting from Kim's place was being removed, so of course I took another look bc I am way too invested in this show.

The prescriptions are def in Saul's name (including meds for prostate & hbp) but there are vitamins next to the other sink as well as what appears to be lotions & serums. There are two bath towels in the shower. The rack of clothing that was separate from the closet appeared to be (fairly loud) women's apparel, along with a cap that appears to be a match for the one in the closet. Between the hot pink thong and the leopard baseball jacket maybe Kim has switched from her standard Jones & Ann Taylor blues? 

One more thing I'm curious about is any impact from Saul revealing Lalo's nickname to the ADA and the detective. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by chick binewski

[grawlix]

14 hours ago, Ottis said:

I actually took it as a sign that even unflappable Gus is unnerved by Lalo being alive and how Gus’s plan was unraveling. A rare drop of the facade by Gus.

Gus was definitely unnerved with the realization that Lalo was alive.  In the beginning of the trailer scene, we see Gus' hand have a nerve tick.  Then, the usually precise Gus knocks over a glass with the pitcher.

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

One more thing I'm curious about is any impact from Saul revealing Lalo's nickname to the ADA and the detective. 

I'm pretty sure the car that was following them at the end of the second episode was police/DA.

[Cinnabon]

1 minute ago, MrWhyt said:

I'm pretty sure the car that was following them at the end of the second episode was police/DA.

Do DAs usually do that kind of reconnaissance work? It seems extremely unlikely imo.

[MrWhyt]

Just now, Cinnabon said:

Do DAs usually do that kind of reconnaissance work? It seems extremely unlikely imo.

investigator for the DA, not the DA themselves.

[Cinnabon]

8 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

investigator for the DA, not the DA themselves.

Ah, ok. Different from the officers usually on the job?

[grawlix]

37 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

I'm pretty sure the car that was following them at the end of the second episode was police/DA.

My guess is Howard hired a PI to follow Saul.  He has got to be suspicious of Saul after all the bad interactions/confrontations he has had with Saul and Kim.

Edited April 23, 2022 by grawlix

[chick binewski]

33 minutes ago, grawlix said:

My guess is Howard hired a PI to follow Saul.  He has got to be suspicious of Saul after all the bad interactions/confrontations he has had with Saul and Kim.

Maybe the return of the solitaire-player who camped out at Chuck's.

[Penman61]

44 minutes ago, grawlix said:

My guess is Howard hired a PI to follow Saul.  He has got to be suspicious of Saul after all the bad interactions/confrontations he has had with Saul and Kim.

Yeah, it will really strain credulity if Howard doesn't figure out right away that Jimmy is behind all this. I can see him being unsure about Kim's level of involvement, but...anybody who's ever been stalked knows how to figure out who's responsible for "very unusual" events that find their way into their lives. Howard's not an idiot.

[peeayebee]

4 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Overall, that mansion's decor was so over-the-top garish that, until I saw the panic room, I thought it might be some kind of staged or "cover" house that Saul used to impress (lol) clients or mislead the DEA, etc. It's just all too much, but you don't have a panic room in a house you don't reside in, so...I guess Saul really lived there. And that means he was mainly trying to impress himself. <insert tragic emoji here>

I just rewatched the sequence, too. I don't have a good enuf memory to recall all the items we see, but I did notice a couple of burner phones (I assume) in the No Value box.

In a Hollywood Reporter interview, Peter Gould says, "I think what this teaser tells you is that this guy lives as Saul Goodman 24-7 and, in fact, the mask becomes the man."

 

[sunbum51]

22 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Fabulous article.  Thank you.

I still would like to know the meaning/intention of the cascading ties.

The answer to your question can be found at around the 16:47 mark: 

 

[sunbum51]

On 4/19/2022 at 1:28 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Rewatched the opening scene and I have to say I did love the way the rep woman picked up the pink bra with the end of her pencil and flicked it into the trash.

Also Saul seemed to have a bunch of Viagra among his prescription stash.

the pink 'bra' is actually a thong ;-)

[anoninrva]

3 hours ago, chick binewski said:

One more thing I'm curious about is any impact from Saul revealing Lalo's nickname to the ADA and the detective. 

I'm honestly not remembering Hank's role that well.  I thought it was just busting drug rings.  They did tease him in the opener, so maybe they will connect the dots to the Salamancas, but I wouldn't bet on it.  I don't recall Hank really making the connection to Mexico in the original series.  I'd doubt the ADA would herself.

[chick binewski]

3 hours ago, anoninrva said:

I'm honestly not remembering Hank's role that well.  I thought it was just busting drug rings.  They did tease him in the opener, so maybe they will connect the dots to the Salamancas, but I wouldn't bet on it.  I don't recall Hank really making the connection to Mexico in the original series.  I'd doubt the ADA would herself.

We see the detective (Roberts?) approach Hank in BB for help with Gale's murder when Hank has been suspended from the DEA . And he purposefully does so - maybe in part bc he knows Hank is dealing with a lot, but mostly bc he doesn't want the DEA to take over his case. But they don't discuss the Salamancas as far as I remember. And the only Lalo mention we get in BB is from S2 Saul when Walt & Jesse kidnap him. 

I just think it was glaring that Saul made the error of referring to "Lalo" during his confrontation with the ADA & the detective, like it might help them make a connection to one of his other crimes. But as I may have mentioned before, almost all of my BB/BCS theories have been wrong so maybe the writers were just showing that Saul is now on more familiar terms with his criminal clients.

ETA I was just watching JMM and Saul expresses concern to Lalo that the Jorge de Guzman alias will unravel. Lalo tells him it won't.

I will continue to be ridiculously obsessed with this show right through the finale.

Edited April 24, 2022 by chick binewski

[Adiba]

5 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Yeah, it will really strain credulity if Howard doesn't figure out right away that Jimmy is behind all this. I can see him being unsure about Kim's level of involvement, but...anybody who's ever been stalked knows how to figure out who's responsible for "very unusual" events that find their way into their lives. Howard's not an idiot.

Right, Howard will inevitably hear about the scene that Saul Goodman made in the clubhouse from other members and put two and two together. Doesn’t mean Howard can prove anything— but he’ll likely want to keep an eye out for anything out of the ordinary. Will he find out eventually that Saul and Kim visited the Kettlemans? 

[SunnyBeBe]

My concern with the phone call from Nacho to Hank is that Nacho has a gun to his head and it’s a set up.  Guss should consider this before taking the call.  
 

When Kim called the IRS, were they fake people she set up to take her call?  

Edited April 24, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[peeayebee]

I don't think so. As Saul was talking to the Kettlemans, Kim was looking at the certificates on the wall. You could see the gears working in her head. I think it was a spur-of-the-moment idea she had to call the IRS on them and, at the very least, get them in big trouble while helping those people they scammed. I don't think there was any reason Kim would feel the need to trick them when a real, legitimate threat would do the job.

[Ottis]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:45 PM, grawlix said:

At the end of the handshake, Hector appeared to have a smirk on his face.  I guess Hector's stroke robbed him of his poker face.  Gus interpreted the smirk to mean Hector believes the Salamancas have the upper hand and that must mean Lalo is still alive.  At least, that's how I interpreted it.

I agree, and also tho, Gus is magical in his throughness and instincts. Hector hated Gus, and Gus wanted Hector gone. Why would this dustup in Mexico change that for those two? Neither would buy into the “we are all under attack” speech. Hector taking Gus’s hand, even if Hector’s face showed nothing, was highly suspicious. Especially to someone as wary as Gus.

[carrps]

Forgot to mention...

My sister said the Kettlemans reminded her of Donny and Allison from Orphan Black.

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, carrps said:

Forgot to mention...

My sister said the Kettlemans reminded her of Donny and Allison from Orphan Black.

Thank you! That is exactly what was scratching at my subconscious when they were on the screen and I couldn't quite recall it. Maybe both couples have a body in their garage!

[sunbum51]

5 hours ago, Ottis said:

I agree, and also tho, Gus is magical in his throughness and instincts. Hector hated Gus, and Gus wanted Hector gone. Why would this dustup in Mexico change that for those two? Neither would buy into the “we are all under attack” speech. Hector taking Gus’s hand, even if Hector’s face showed nothing, was highly suspicious. Especially to someone as wary as Gus.

I also remember how (in BB) Hector never looked Gus in the eye - until he blew them both up - and thought perhaps Gus realized Lalo was still alive when Hector looked him in the eye. Remember Gus asking Hector is today was the day? I took it as the day when he looked him in the eye but then again wtf do i know ;-)

[Eulipian 5k]

On 4/20/2022 at 1:43 PM, Penman61 said:

And the two actors are...underskilled? Is that the polite way to say this? They aren't very expressive at doing silent menacing or anything else.

For two actors who have never said a word (except at Tio's bedside, Once!), I thought their horrified expressions at seeing "Lalo's" burned body were Top Notch acting. And all they needed to do, fantastic.

[Constantinople]

Now that Gus reminded us, or at least me, about Nachos father, I'm wondering why the cartel hasn't picked him up, or at least started watching him.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 4/22/2022 at 12:43 AM, Scout Finch said:

Yep, I noticed it and was coming here to ask if anyone else had!

I'm amazed that you guys can remember something from episode 2 - I mean, how many years ago was that??  That'll never be me; I was confused enough with the drug storyline in just this episode!

[Scout Finch]

It was in two scenes in this episode so it wasn't something I remembered. I can't recall most of what's gone on in any of the other seasons and the little bits I do remember I couldn't begin to tell you which season it's from! It was in the first scene when his mansion was being emptied out and it was in the foreground of one of the shots. Then, when it returned to current time and he was talking to Kim in/on the bed, I noticed it on his bedside table.

[PeterPirate]

Ological finally dropped his first analysis of season 6.  

[peeayebee]

Wow. That was really good. I hadn't seen one of his analyses/breakdowns before. Pretty smart dude.

[PeterPirate]

Ological's analysis of episode 2.  

[peeayebee]

That guy is so good. Who is he? What's his background?

[stewedsquash]

On 4/18/2022 at 10:36 PM, SoMuchTV said:

Can anyone remind me what year it is now?

This is one of my biggest mysteries with BCS and my recently binged all seasons BB (took a couple months, life gonna life) is I can’t get a grip on timelines.

[stewedsquash]

On 4/25/2022 at 4:04 PM, Eulipian 5k said:

For two actors who have never said a word (except at Tio's bedside, Once!), I thought their horrified expressions at seeing "Lalo's" burned body were Top Notch acting. And all they needed to do, fantastic.

I can’t ever not see Brett and Jason from Selling Sunset when I see the twins. I just finished the most recent season and I also kept seeing Jason and Brett dressed as BCS twins.

Edited August 4, 2022 by stewedsquash

[Lalo Lives]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:11 PM, Penman61 said:

Can someone explain how Gus JUST KNEW when he talked to Hector that Lalo was not dead? Was it the magic handshake?

LOOK AT ME HECTOR!

Hector would not look at him.

He looked at him twice (while in the wheelchair) that I can recall.

When he blew up Gus and when he KNEW Lalo was alive.

[Anela]

I recognized that he's doing this for Kim, he doesn't really want to do it. It's disappointing that she's pushing the downfall of someone, just to make some money. I do like that she told that couple to give their customers the full amount that they were owed. 

I like Nacho, and don't like that he's been set up for the attempted assassination of Lalo. I love Mike. I don't like Fring, any more than I like the Salamancas. 

[Cinnabon]

On 9/2/2022 at 6:16 PM, Anela said:

I recognized that he's doing this for Kim, he doesn't really want to do it. It's disappointing that she's pushing the downfall of someone, just to make some money. I do like that she told that couple to give their customers the full amount that they were owed. 

I like Nacho, and don't like that he's been set up for the attempted assassination of Lalo. I love Mike. I don't like Fring, any more than I like the Salamancas. 

Mike is certainly more likable than the other villains,  but he’s still chosen a life as a stone cold killer. I don’t understand why he gets a pass.

[Anela]

21 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Mike is certainly more likable than the other villains,  but he’s still chosen a life as a stone cold killer. I don’t understand why he gets a pass.

I don't know. There are people who love Fring. I don't. I see Mike trying to protect people. 

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

I don't know. There are people who love Fring. I don't. I see Mike trying to protect people. 

I think they like Gus as a cool villain. But Mike decided to work for a drug kingpin whose products kills its users and ruins lives, and kills many himself. 

[Anela]

27 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I think they like Gus as a cool villain. But Mike decided to work for a drug kingpin whose products kills its users and ruins lives, and kills many himself. 

It doesn't matter. I don't feel like debating it. I think Mike is cool for trying to keep people alive. I don't think Gus is cool. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Anela