S06.E06: The World Turned Upside Down

[Athena]

Quote

A dysentery epidemic spreads on the Ridge, and Claire falls deathly ill; she is almost recovered when the Christies arrive and drop a bombshell; as nefarious rumors spread like wildfire on the Ridge, tragedy strikes.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[nara]

Great episode!

I love and hate the fact that this show has so many women for whom I feel sorry but also hate.
 

I expected Malva to try to kill her father and Claire and try to seduce Jamie. I did not expect the end with the murder! I can see how this will lead to accusations against Claire and the fire on the Ridge. But my bet is on the creepy brother. I am guessing some incesty stuff was going on. I wonder if there will be proof that Malva deliberately infected Claire and her father.

Caitriona Balfe’s acting continues to impress.
 

I wish we’d see the scene where Roger reveals Malva’s deceit. I’m guessing that will be a deleted scene on the DVD.

I was surprised that pregnancy Bree wasn’t removed from the Ridge for her safety…I expected that she was the one who would fall ill.

Jamie usually is a good judge of people, so why didn’t he see through Malva?

I was hoping for a scene in which multiple men came forward to accuse Malva, but that would probably have been wildly unrealistic. They would have been happy she accused Jamie. I was worried that Ian would end up marrying that horrible woman, but I am glad it didn’t happen.

if Malva’s baby is far enough along to survive, and Claire’s hair has grown just a few inches, surely the timeline doesn’t match for Jamie to be the father? But perhaps that’s too subtle for the 18th century?
 

I’m glad Jamie was not chosen to be a delegate. That might have been too much!

 

[Glade]

Wow, this was a really grim and intense episode; Claire has been through a lot and it makes sense that she would be reflecting on her life choices; if the stones allowed it, maybe a brief trip to the 1970's would help restore her spirits.  Regardless, that was emotionally powerful dialogue between C/J, and I liked the callback to them standing outside the stables at Lallybroch, arguing similarly.   

I guess that wasn't another dream sequence at the end, unfortunately, and now the Fraiser's will have to deal with the question of why Mulva's body was found dead on their property, and I imagine the settlers won't understand Claire cutting out the baby, either...is this how their house gets burned to the ground?  I hope this wasn't an honor killing by the Christie's, but I guess unless it was suicide the answer as to who/why she was killed isn't going to be pretty...

[DoctorAtomic]

That was one hell of a cold opening. 
I'm actually surprised more people aren't dying of diseases in 1770s wildlands. Or just being generally sick.I suppose we can chalk it up to Claire's future medical skills. Same with this dysentery. They probably wouldn't have known it was water borne, or Jamie to know to look for the elk. 

A little much with the hair. It will grow back. I'm surprised Claire didn't have short hair in the 60s anyway or in medical school anyway. I don't know if it's the actor's choice, but Claire always gives Mr. Christie the same look. It cracks me up. 

I was wondering at first if Claire was suffering from huffing the ether. As soon as Mr. Christie and Claire figured out they got the same thing without getting contagious, I mean, what's the common factor here? Even Jamie was sharp enough to realize it was odd. 

If Bree and Roger have 2 kids and they both can travel, that actually should be a lot of people in their present (1970s) who could travel. Didn't Roger tell someone when he was leaving? 

I didn't think Mr. Christie was buying Malva's yarn until the end there. Allan sure did, and acted like a total bitch. I gave a quite a yell when Claire slapped her! That looked like a real one and not a stage smack. Too bad Claire couldn't invent a DNA test. Shoving plot where it doesn't need to go. And Jamie invents 'we were on break'. I thought it was clever for Claire to know it wasn't Jamie because he wouldn't turn out his own child. 

And another yell when Young Ian told Claire!

All the more reason I'm thinking they set the fire themselves if Claire is saying that no one on Ridge respects them any more. Not that they know, but from our perspective, they're all being bitchy gossips while the biggest war the world has ever seen is on their doorstep. 

I'm laughing that Roger finds it amazing that the real work at a conference doesn't get done until you get to the bar. Not much of an academic. 

That was one hell of an ending. 

4 hours ago, nara said:

I wonder if there will be proof that Malva deliberately infected Claire and her father.

It doesn't necessarily have to have been deliberate. Circumstantial, for sure. I don't know why she'd infect the both of them at the same time though. 

4 hours ago, nara said:

I’m glad Jamie was not chosen to be a delegate. That might have been too much!

I don't think he could have been, right? Because he never was. The future past or whatever you want to call it doesn't change on the show. I really wish they'd talk more about all the timey-wimey. 

[nara]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

A little much with the hair. It will grow back. I'm surprised Claire didn't have short hair in the 60s anyway or in medical school anyway.  

…

It doesn't necessarily have to have been deliberate. Circumstantial, for sure. I don't know why she'd infect the both of them at the same time though. 

I got the impression that Malva cut Claire’s hair to make Claire less attractive to Jamie so she could try to seduce him. And she convinced Lizzie to go along.

I think she was trying to kill or severely weaken  them both—her dad because he’s horrid and Claire to get her out of the way so she could go after Jamie.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

3 minutes ago, nara said:

I got the impression that Malva cut Claire’s hair to make Claire less attractive to Jamie so she could try to seduce him. And she convinced Lizzie to go along.

Mrs Bug. It was Malva and Mrs Bug.

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm not disagreeing. I thought it was odd she'd go for both at once. She had all this time for the dad. Unless I suppose she used the dysentery as cover. I'd like to know how she did it. I was surprised Claire didn't put it together, but she was kind of out of it in recovery. 

[FnkyChkn34]

What the hell was that? I am very not impressed with this season. I have no interest in trying to follow what is a drug-induced hallucination and what is real. That was just so bizarre that I did not enjoy it. 

[BitterApple]

My guess as to the father of the baby was either Malva's brother or a married man. 

I get that Claire's first priority as a physician is to save life, but she's being called a witch at every turn. Cutting a baby out of a dead woman certainly isn't going to help her case. 

The last few episodes are going to be crazy. 

[Lily H]

I get why it's being written this way, ("plot reasons"), but Claire's reliance on the ether is getting irritating and stupid. She's surrounded by people who either are suspicious and resentful of her or downright hate her, but she deliberately puts herself in a position of helplessness. Also, her nonsensical reaction to Malva's obviously dead body.

The baby's father could have been her brother, her father, Ian, the guy she was in the church with (Obadiah?), or any other guy on the ridge. I really don't understand why accusations from some newcomer would carry so much weight with people who know and like(d) Jamie. I guess some things never change.

And why all the angst about Jamie having slept with some woman once, the night before he went to prison? It was 25 years ago! Who cares? Claire had gone back to the future to be with her husband! We already know Jamie married Laoghaire and has a son from another woman. He's been nothing but faithful to Claire when she's been in his world.

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, BitterApple said:

The last few episodes are going to be crazy. 

Short season due to Cait's real life pregnancy so only two episodes left.

5 hours ago, Lily H said:

I really don't understand why accusations from some newcomer would carry so much weight with people who know and like(d) Jamie. I guess some things never change.

THANK YOU! This has been driving me NUTS. But ya gotta plot! to plot!

[cardigirl]

5 hours ago, Lily H said:

I really don't understand why accusations from some newcomer would carry so much weight with people who know and like(d) Jamie. I guess some things never change.

 

16 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

THANK YOU! This has been driving me NUTS. But ya gotta plot! to plot!

Maybe people believed it due to their suspicions about Claire.  They don't fully trust or understand her, so to see her life being "ruined" made them happy?  Like, they want to see her downfall, so they are willing to believe Jamie capable of this, just to get at Claire?                    

[domina89]

10 hours ago, nara said:

I got the impression that Malva cut Claire’s hair to make Claire less attractive to Jamie so she could try to seduce him. And she convinced Lizzie to go along.

It could be that she needed her hair to do more witchcraft, too...

[CountryGirl]

Perhaps UO, but this has been a very weak season for me.

Other than getting a bit of storyline for Fergus and Marsali (which was a damn tease as they were soon shipped off to New Bern) and Ian's backstory, this season has d-r-a-g-g-e-d. I found myself watching the clock last night, which I almost never have done through the show's run thus far.

I'm sick of Claire and the ether.

I did not need a plague episode, not that I would ever need one and especially not while we are still in the midst of a pandemic.

I couldn't care less about Malva and baby-daddy drama (although I agree that it could be the brother). The way the episode came off, it didn't appear that Roger had revealed to Bree/company about Malva's tryst in the church but then Claire mentions it casually. The reveal that she had slept with Ian as well was a little bit more interesting but not all that surprising, given how she was hanging around with him and he was obviously attracted to her.

Then, the scenes I wanted to see - the Sons of Liberty discussions - we get a few lines of dialogue after Jamie returns. Show should be capitalizing on this rich history, not boring us with soap opera melodrama. We don't have time for all of this nonsense, with only two episodes left. I have been saying a lot of "get on with it!" this season.

And apparently the final scene of the previous episode was just dropped in there.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Maybe people believed it due to their suspicions about Claire.  They don't fully trust or understand her, so to see her life being "ruined" made them happy?  Like, they want to see her downfall, so they are willing to believe Jamie capable of this, just to get at Claire?   

That is a fair reason. These 'fisherfolk' I can buy with all the witchcraft, plus Malva mentioned something to Jamie about snake handling. The entire ridge, all those people Jamie invited, worked along side for however long to build the settlement, and now suddenly turning, doesn't wash, in hindsight. I could buy a lot more friction between the two groups rather than everyone turning on them. I'm surprised no one even thought that Jamie taking another mistress would be that big a deal anyway. 

One the one hand, things are dragging to me because the revolution is happening. On the other, they gloss over things like how the settlement really would react to something like this. There's not even any everyday talk about political affairs. I can buy that most of the settlers probably don't care and want to be left alone. They nailed up the bulletin on the embargo and already mentioned the tea party though. So, it's there. 

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, Lily H said:

The baby's father could have been her brother, her father, Ian, the guy she was in the church with (Obadiah?), or any other guy on the ridge. I really don't understand why accusations from some newcomer would carry so much weight with people who know and like(d) Jamie. I guess some things never change.

I think that people to know and like Jaime, but to the new comers, they are suspicious of Claire, and Malva's story is not THAT far fetched. If you didn't have intimate knowledge of Jaime personally, the idea that an older handsome powerful man, could seduce a young unmarried woman when he was stressed out about his wife being sick- isn't crazy. And Malva was spending a lot of time at the house.

Now given that Malva was caught with that other young man in the church, and Ian knows he slept with her, if they both came forward I think that would've cleared Jamie's name. Ian is a good dude, I don't think he never had any nefarious intentions towards Malva and he would've married her and treated her well if she came to him first. 

But Malva was vile to accuse Jaime like that, we were all rooting for you Malva! I was shocked to see her murdered though. That girl didnt have a snowballs chance in hell. I do wonder, why accuse JAIME of all people? If you are an unwed woman who finds herself pregnant, and you have had sex with more than one guy, you pick the guy who will treat you BEST to name as the father (the one that would marry you, be kind, treat the child well), why would you name a married dude who never touched you, because he has no reason to "make things right" he knows he is innocent?? I don't get that.

[Hanahope]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

Then, the scenes I wanted to see - the Sons of Liberty discussions - we get a few lines of dialogue after Jamie returns. Show should be capitalizing on this rich history, not boring us with soap opera melodrama. We don't have time for all of this nonsense, with only two episodes left. I have been saying a lot of "get on with it!" this season.

I suppose the main reason we don't see more of this is because James Fraser was not really there and the story at least tries to keep some actual history.  that's why the writer had to come up with some reason why he wasn't selected as a delegate to Philadelphia.  Sure, its fiction and all, but writers like to keep some fact in their historical fiction. 

 

23 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The entire ridge, all those people Jamie invited, worked along side for however long to build the settlement, and now suddenly turning, doesn't wash,

Yeah, i think its kindof bullshit that all these people who swore an oath to Jamie would not turn their back on him over someone newly arrived and as of yet to prove trustworthy.

11 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

If you are an unwed woman who finds herself pregnant, and you have had sex with more than one guy, you pick the guy who will treat you BEST to name as the father (the one that would marry you, be kind, treat the child well), why would you name a married dude who never touched you, because he has no reason to "make things right" he knows he is innocent?? I don't get that.

Agreed, it doesn't make sense that she would accuse Jamie when she easily could have blamed Ian.  maybe she doesn't think Ian would stand up to her dad and brother (which also doesn't make sense, Ian is pretty hold his own these days)? or she feared her dad/brother would treat her worse if she named Ian because of his native american influence?  or she's greedy.  and what about Anderson, who Roger set up with the widow because Anderson was not married (and maybe also a widower)?

Also, even from Malva's vantage point in the barn, could she really see some mark on Jamie's inner thigh?  

 

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Hanahope said:

Agreed, it doesn't make sense that she would accuse Jamie when she easily could have blamed Ian.  maybe she doesn't think Ian would stand up to her dad and brother (which also doesn't make sense, Ian is pretty hold his own these days)? or she feared her dad/brother would treat her worse if she named Ian because of his native american influence?  or she's greedy.  and what about Anderson, who Roger set up with the widow because Anderson was not married (and maybe also a widower)?

Also, even from Malva's vantage point in the barn, could she really see some mark on Jamie's inner thigh?  

Greed would only make sense to me if Jaime had sex with her (even if she knew based on when her periods stopped he likely wasn't the father). Jaime knows its NOT him- why would he give her ANYTHING? Legally Malva has no rights to anything, any property or funds she could claim from a married guy she named as the father of her child would be a gift- a socially expected gift (its bad form to not provide for your non marital children), but a gift.

And a man you falsely accused, who never touched you, and is madly in love with his wife and committed to his honor is the WORST choice- cause now you have just made an enemy. I never got the inclination Malva was STUPID, why not name Ian??? Cause you actually had sex with him!

[DoctorAtomic]

Mr. Christie said, 'you have to acknowledge the baby and sign documents making them your heir'. It's the best move for stability. The guy in the church looked like a bag, and Ian is a Mohawk; i.e., heathen. Thinking about it, I thought Mr. Christie was unusually calm during the whole scene. I wouldn't be surprised if he beat it out of her first and then came up with the plan to frame Jamie himself. I mean, Jamie can just flat out say no, and/or Ian and Roger could come forward. Claire is going to tell Jamie when she has a chance. At this point, everyone is on their business, so I'd just flat out throw it in Christie's face. Of course, now, they'll be accused of dragging her name in the mud because she's been killed. It's kind of trite tbh; Jamie's the landowner/landlord. He can just kick them all out. It's not like MacDonald wouldn't come down with a few guys. Or the 'Safety Committee'. 

5 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Also, even from Malva's vantage point in the barn, could she really see some mark on Jamie's inner thigh?

I forgot about that, but I thought she just made a good guess because they were talking about the snakebite and she had seen an actual snakebite. Jamie even pointed to where it was on his leg. 

[CountryGirl]

22 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I suppose the main reason we don't see more of this is because James Fraser was not really there and the story at least tries to keep some actual history.  that's why the writer had to come up with some reason why he wasn't selected as a delegate to Philadelphia.  Sure, its fiction and all, but writers like to keep some fact in their historical fiction. 

I get that he wasn't really there, much less a delegate, but the history, as much as the romance, has always been the draw for me with this series. And considering they play fast and loose with history (with all the time jumps throughout this past episode alone, Claire and Bree inventing things etc.), I think there could been a small scene.

Hopefully, the next season will have much more in this regard vs them mostly reacting to news from elsewhere, ignoring the southern colonies being hugely influential in turning the tide of war.

[kwnyc]

8 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I get that he wasn't really there, much less a delegate, but the history, as much as the romance, has always been the draw for me with this series.

Seriously...Jamie could've gone and signed the Declaration under another name! ;-) Thus leaving a mystery for scholars to sort out for centuries.

[ch1]

Can’t help thinking Ian would have been an even more stand up guy if he didn’t screw Malva and THEN tell her he loved someone else.  Pretty shitty thing to do.  
 

 

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, ch1 said:

Can’t help thinking Ian would have been an even more stand up guy if he didn’t screw Malva and THEN tell her he loved someone else.  Pretty shitty thing to do.  
 

 

Well, it happens. I don't think he ever led Malva to believe that he loved her or wanted to marry her. Now if he had done that, THAT would've been really shitty. 

I think they had sex by the river for the reasons a lot of people do, they were both lonely. Afterwards Ian told her that it was a "one time thing", and he didnt want to mess with her feelings because he realized he was still emotionally attached to Emily.  It would've been ruder to "ghost her" (as we would say in 2022). I don't think Malva was in love with him or anything, nor do I think she was super upset about it. It happens.

[DoctorAtomic]

17 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I think there could been a small scene.

tbh, just a scene in the tavern with all the wines and a positively befuddled Roger would have been brilliant. 

[nara]

57 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Mr. Christie said, 'you have to acknowledge the baby and sign documents making them your heir'. It's the best move for stability. The guy in the church looked like a bag, and Ian is a Mohawk; i.e., heathen. Thinking about it, I thought Mr. Christie was unusually calm during the whole scene. I wouldn't be surprised if he beat it out of her first and then came up with the plan to frame Jamie himself.

Good point! He may have come up with the plan. It would explain why Malva came to find Claire at the end—perhaps to fess up.

[DoctorAtomic]

When Claire talked to her at her house before pissy bitch Allan was snotting at her, it looked like Malva was softening up. That means she got got because she was going to spill the beans. However, it doesn't explain why she may have poisoned Mr. Christie and Claire, unless she tried when she first was pregnant; it failed, so she just told them? I don't know if that adds up. With her dead, we probably may not see for sure, unless they give us a flashback. It's odd tv writing imo if it's just ignored after spending a whole 60+ minutes on it. 

[Cdh20]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think that people to know and like Jaime, but to the new comers, they are suspicious of Claire, and Malva's story is not THAT far fetched. If you didn't have intimate knowledge of Jaime personally, the idea that an older handsome powerful man, could seduce a young unmarried woman when he was stressed out about his wife being sick- isn't crazy. And Malva was spending a lot of time at the house.

Now given that Malva was caught with that other young man in the church, and Ian knows he slept with her, if they both came forward I think that would've cleared Jamie's name. Ian is a good dude, I don't think he never had any nefarious intentions towards Malva and he would've married her and treated her well if she came to him first. 

But Malva was vile to accuse Jaime like that, we were all rooting for you Malva! I was shocked to see her murdered though. That girl didnt have a snowballs chance in hell. I do wonder, why accuse JAIME of all people? If you are an unwed woman who finds herself pregnant, and you have had sex with more than one guy, you pick the guy who will treat you BEST to name as the father (the one that would marry you, be kind, treat the child well), why would you name a married dude who never touched you, because he has no reason to "make things right" he knows he is innocent?? I don't get that.

My take on Malva was that she wanted to replace Claire, be Claire, have a “Jamie “ who adores his wife, & Jamie is the only one on the ridge that looks wealthy. 

[SassAndSnacks]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

pissy bitch Allan

OMG!  I'm snort laughing!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Now given that Malva was caught with that other young man in the church, and Ian knows he slept with her, if they both came forward I think that would've cleared Jamie's name. Ian is a good dude, I don't think he never had any nefarious intentions towards Malva and he would've married her and treated her well if she came to him first. 

But Malva was vile to accuse Jaime like that, we were all rooting for you Malva! I was shocked to see her murdered though. That girl didnt have a snowballs chance in hell. I do wonder, why accuse JAIME of all people? If you are an unwed woman who finds herself pregnant, and you have had sex with more than one guy, you pick the guy who will treat you BEST to name as the father (the one that would marry you, be kind, treat the child well), why would you name a married dude who never touched you, because he has no reason to "make things right" he knows he is innocent?? I don't get that.

Ian wanted to do that, but Claire talked him out of it because she didn't want him marrying Malva if the baby wasn't his. And as Nara said upthread, Henderson and any others Malva might have slept with would keep quiet because they'd be glad she was accusing Jamie and not them.

Also, many people love scandal.

Jamie is the landlord and could provide for the child's upkeep as well as give them an inheritance. Also, since Malva clammed up when Allan appeared like she was afraid of him, and he was very enthusiastic about accusing Jamie, it could have been Allan's idea, perhaps because of the beating.

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Greed would only make sense to me if Jaime had sex with her (even if she knew based on when her periods stopped he likely wasn't the father). Jaime knows its NOT him- why would he give her ANYTHING? Legally Malva has no rights to anything, any property or funds she could claim from a married guy she named as the father of her child would be a gift- a socially expected gift (its bad form to not provide for your non marital children), but a gift.

And a man you falsely accused, who never touched you, and is madly in love with his wife and committed to his honor is the WORST choice- cause now you have just made an enemy. I never got the inclination Malva was STUPID, why not name Ian??? Cause you actually had sex with him!

Whoever came up with this plan (ex. Allan) would be underestimating Jamie's honor and his fidelity to his wife preventing him from confessing to something he didn't do. The average landlord/lord/laird/governor would be expected to agree to make provisions for the Christies just to make the scandal go away. The dark looks Jamie and Claire were getting weren't just because Jamie was accused of sleeping with Malva but because he was apparently refusing to do his duty.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Scarlett45]

@Noneofyourbusiness you make a lot of good points. Again, a man in Jaime's position impregnating Malva isn't a so novel no one would believe it. I bet you're right, Allan may have come up with this, because he doesn't know Jaime as a person.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@Noneofyourbusiness you make a lot of good points. Again, a man in Jaime's position impregnating Malva isn't a so novel no one would believe it. I bet you're right, Allan may have come up with this, because he doesn't know Jaime as a person.

Come to think of it, the fact they had slept with her would if anything make the other men more inclined to believe that the high-and-mighty Jamie had, too.

And especially in this time, the assumption would be that men are lustful and are almost expected to have affairs behind their wives' backs, and it would be harder for the average settler in Fraser's Ridge to believe that he didn't sleep with a willing beautiful young woman, especially when she could give a detailed description of what he looked like naked. So I don't find it unrealistic at all that the tide of public opinion turned that way.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[DoctorAtomic]

Oh, their plan seriously backfired. I was thinking it was Mr. Christie's idea, but now it seems odd to me that he'd underestimate Jamie given their time together in prison. Jamie pointed out a couple of weeks ago when they were in prison that he was left alone. 

This is dumb enough that Allan might have come up on his own with Malva and then drop it on Jamie and Mr. Christie all at once. I don't really have the time to look at the scene again, but Allan was way overreacting iirc. Even when Claire went later on to talk to Malva, he popped up and was all shouty. 

For that matter, getting Christie and Claire sick might have been Allan's idea all along. 

Actually, now that I'm thinking, did Jamie agree to anything at all? 

Edited April 11, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Actually, now that I'm thinking, did Jamie agree to anything at all? 
 

No. That's why he and Claire are getting dark looks.

[DoctorAtomic]

That is kind of baller. 

I thought it was because she said that Jamie forced himself on her. 

[tennisgurl]

That certainly took a turn! That was a wild episode, I knew that Malva was up to something but I certainly didn't expect her to try and act like Jamie knocked her up, although it totally makes sense. I feel like she was trying to pull a Single White Female on Claire, jealous of her being this smart beautiful woman with a nice house on the Ridge, a handsome, loving husband and family, and just generally seemed to have it all, especially compared to Malva's sad existence. She cut her hair to make Claire less attractive, then tried to trap Jamie into some kind of relationship. Poor Claire, you try to give a poor girl an internship and she repays you like this. Then she shows up dead, and in the worst way possible for Claire. 

I find it annoying that everyone on the Ridge are so quick to suspect the worst of Jamie, despite everything he has done for them, but I guess they still don't really know Jamie like we do. The whole set up of a powerful older man taking advantage of a young woman while he's upset seems very plausible in many communities, so while its frustrating I do buy it. Hopefully this all gets cleared up by the end of the season at least, we have enough going on with the upcoming revolution without tons of Ridge drama and people accusing Claire of murder. 

As much as I sympathize with Claire wanting to use her modern woman of science attitude to help people, sometimes she really does struggle with reading the room. The weird fisher folk would probably have been a problem no matter what, but Claire constantly pushing them, even without knowing how bad things really were, did end up escalating things, especially with Mr. Christie, leading to the Frasier's being resented more and more. How did she think asking to sort through his poop would go, exactly? Sometimes she really just needs to smile, nod, and let some things go if its not extremely important. 

I did love when Malva's ratty brother tried to attack Jamie and he just kept shoving his sorry excuses for attacks down like a toddler having a temper tantrum. 

[Scarlett45]

40 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

That is kind of baller. 

I thought it was because she said that Jamie forced himself on her. 

No, Malva never said that. (thank god she had some sort of moral fortitude to not go there) She said that they fell victim to their lust while Claire was sick, and it continued a few times after that. Which as @Noneofyourbusiness said is believable from a general perspective. 

 

23 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

As much as I sympathize with Claire wanting to use her modern woman of science attitude to help people, sometimes she really does struggle with reading the room. The weird fisher folk would probably have been a problem no matter what, but Claire constantly pushing them, even without knowing how bad things really were, did end up escalating things, especially with Mr. Christie, leading to the Frasier's being resented more and more. How did she think asking to sort through his poop would go, exactly? Sometimes she really just needs to smile, nod, and let some things go if its not extremely important. 

I know. Claire still forgets she isn't in the 20th century. The only reason she hasn't had a worst time is because Jaime is head of the Ridge, she has a lot of social protection as a leader's wife. If Jaime was just a "regular guy" her life would've been far worse. I am not victim blaming, Claire doesn't DESERVE this type of treatment, but she is a grown ass woman who should learn how to read a room. She seemed to have more sense the first few episodes of Season 1!

[cardigirl]

Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere on other threads, but am I spelling "Jamie" incorrectly?  I keep seeing "Jaime" in some of the posts and thought I had misread his name in the books? 

[Scarlett45]

2 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere on other threads, but am I spelling "Jamie" incorrectly?  I keep seeing "Jaime" in some of the posts and thought I had misread his name in the books? 

It is Jamie- that's probably my fault.

[cardigirl]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

It is Jamie- that's probably my fault.

Okay, phew!  Thanks!

[nara]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere on other threads, but am I spelling "Jamie" incorrectly?  I keep seeing "Jaime" in some of the posts and thought I had misread his name in the books? 

Jaime Lannister on Game of Thrones spelled it this way, so it’s possible that viewers of both are confusing the two. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Not the first time, but I thought Malva said after that Jamie forced her. 

[Haleth]

So if the folks on the Ridge were so quick to believe Jamie was having sex with Malva, what are they going to think when they find her dead, mutilated body in Claire’s garden? And Claire has no alibi?

[iMonrey]

Quote

The baby's father could have been her brother, her father, Ian, the guy she was in the church with (Obadiah?), or any other guy on the ridge. I really don't understand why accusations from some newcomer would carry so much weight with people who know and like(d) Jamie.

It isn't necessary to convince every settler Malva is lying. Unless he came up with the lie himself, it's only necessary to convince Malva's father she's lying about Jamie. And since Roger caught her in the church with that other boy, if they brought that boy to Christie for questioning I'm sure he'd crack under pressure. This really should have been an easy lie to disprove, very quickly. I found the entirely scenario unrealistic and annoying.

It also looked like Claire looked out the window, saw Malva walking towards the house and chose that moment to knock herself out with ether. WTF? Possibly her worst enemy in that moment heading her way and she deliberately incapacitates herself? That also seemed unrealistic and annoying.

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It also looked like Claire looked out the window, saw Malva walking towards the house and chose that moment to knock herself out with ether. WTF? Possibly her worst enemy in that moment heading her way and she deliberately incapacitates herself? That also seemed unrealistic and annoying.

 I agree it’s stoopid. I hate the whole dosing ether plot. But it was hearing Lionel’s voice (AGAIN!)(🙄🙄😒😒😒)that had her reaching for the ether as Malva walked toward the house.

[DoctorAtomic]

What's actually worse is that if anyone does believe Claire didn't kill Malva, then how do you not hear anything at all or see anything out the window? Her alibi is that she's been dosing with ether. That's not going to win any new patients. 

[nara]

I don’t like the ether plot line, but she was gang raped. Wanting to block out the world seems like a normal response.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It isn't necessary to convince every settler Malva is lying. Unless he came up with the lie himself, it's only necessary to convince Malva's father she's lying about Jamie. And since Roger caught her in the church with that other boy, if they brought that boy to Christie for questioning I'm sure he'd crack under pressure. This really should have been an easy lie to disprove, very quickly. I found the entirely scenario unrealistic and annoying.

Proving she had sex with Obadiah Henderson and other men doesn't mean she didn't have sex with Jamie. If anything, it makes it more plausible.

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Not the first time, but I thought Malva said after that Jamie forced her. 

Nope.

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

No, Malva never said that. (thank god she had some sort of moral fortitude to not go there)

Not necessarily mortal fortitude. As Jamie said, the story they had an affair that began with his grief while Claire was sick was more plausible than him forcing himself on her.

[Glade]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It also looked like Claire looked out the window, saw Malva walking towards the house and chose that moment to knock herself out with ether. WTF? Possibly her worst enemy in that moment heading her way and she deliberately incapacitates herself?

The doors and windows were locked/barred, so she knew Mulva couldn't get in, but wanted to escape from the post-traumatic stress and panic that her presence triggered in the only way she knew how.  It isn't unrealistic that she'd want to do that instead of standing there listening Mulva pounding on the door screaming, because Claire obviously had no intentions of talking to her.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Glade

[DoctorAtomic]

But what if she was coming over for a legit medical issue or to tell Claire the truth? 

She wasn't storming over there when Claire looked out the window. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

But what if she was coming over for a legit medical issue or to tell Claire the truth? 

She wasn't storming over there when Claire looked out the window. 

I don't blame Claire if she didn't give a fuck and just didn't want to deal with Malva right then.

The whole scene was staged weirdly. Did Claire see that twat walking down the hill? Or did Claire lock the door, and we, the viewers see Malva walking down, to let us know, she was on her way?